Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Biden Calls On Nation To Lower The Temperature In Address; Trump Arrives in Milwaukee For RNC After Assassination Attempt; Secret Service Faces Scrutiny Over Rooftop Access Near Trump Event. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired July 14, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kaitlan Collins live from Milwaukee tonight, where the Republican National Convention will kick off in just hours, a convention that has been undeniably altered by the attempted assassination of the former president.
Moments ago, President Biden addressing a shaken nation from the Oval Office, doing so for only the third time since he has taken office, as he delivered an unmistakable message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: a former president was shot, an American citizen killed while simply exercising his freedom to support the candidate of his choosing. We cannot, we must not go down this road in America.
The political record in this country has gotten very heated. It's time to cool it down. We all have a responsibility to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The president going on to argue how he believes Americans should resolve their political differences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We debate and disagree. We compare and contrast the character of the candidates, the records, the issues, the agenda, the vision for America. But in America, we resolve our differences at the ballot box. You know, that's how we do it, at the ballot box, not with bullets. The power to change America should always rest in the hands of the people, not in the hands of would-be assassins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: President Biden delivering those remarks as former President Donald Trump has now arrived here in Milwaukee, sending another fist pump into the air, as he did similar to what he did moments after he was pulled off stage by the Secret Service.
Meanwhile, that agency is under intense scrutiny tonight over how a shooter was able to position himself roughly 130 yards from the former president and presumptive Republican nominee. The FBI says that the 20-year-old gunman appears to have acted alone. They are still investigating and say that he did have crude explosives in his car and are also looking into whether or not this was an act of domestic terrorism.
I want to get right to our CNN team here on the ground in Milwaukee, Audie Cornish, Dana Bash, Jonah Goldberg, Van Jones, and Scott Jennings, all here listening to that address from President Biden tonight.
Dana, what did you make of what the president had to say tonight?
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He set out to try to, to combination, as you said so well in your opening there, a nation that is extremely worried, anxious, angry, and feeling like things are very much out of control after what we saw yesterday, just, you know, three hours before where we are right now.
And the fact is that the president made clear that he understands what's going to happen behind us starting tomorrow is going to be pretty tough on him. And he argued that that's okay as long as it is in the parameters of a dialogue and a debate about policies and ideas that is supposed to happen.
We'll see if that is what unfolds. We don't know exactly how people who are here are going to act and react, given the fact that these are the most ardent supporters of a former president who was almost assassinated yesterday. So, the rawness in the nation is exponentially bigger and will be even more so when this hall is filled.
COLLINS: Jonah, what were your takeaways?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have this obsession with the fact that our politicians in both parties have talked too much about unity for too long. This country was not designed for unity, checks and balances, separation of powers divided government, the whole constitutional order was set up for competition. Democracy is not about agreement. It's about disagreement.
And I think Joe Biden tonight kind of finally got to that place where you're supposed to -- we don't need this country to be unified. We need this country to be better at disagreeing with each other. And that's sort of what he's getting at is all the rhetoric he's had until now has usually been about unity. Donald Trump's rhetoric is about nationalism, which is also just another word for unity.
[21:05:02]
We're not going to get there in this country. That's not how the system is designed. The system was designed to pit faction against faction and have people argue about this stuff at the ballot box, not the battle box, but the ballot box. And he was getting at that. I don't know if it's going to be enough to move the needle with anybody, but it was a welcome change in the rhetoric. COLLINS: Yes. I mean, Audie, it is -- I was just thinking of what Biden ran on in 2020 and these messages of unity that he did talk about, you know, resolving issues within the nation. I don't think he ever imagined he'd be doing so 24 hours after the attempted assassination of his political rival.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: At the same time, I really appreciated that he tried to show people the narrative over the last couple of years of violent incidents, because I think that we look back on, say, the civil rights period and we see a lot of that kind of political violence and it's very easy for us to understand that narrative in a way the president said, we are, we're on a road right now building another version of that. And if we're not careful, we will tip into the place we have been before.
And I think that's what I appreciated, that he came out and said, we've seen this before. We've done this before and we don't have to do it again if we choose not to.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I think -- well, first of all, I was proud of Biden. I was proud of Biden. And I was also really sad about it because you shouldn't -- the president of United States shouldn't have to come out and give a ballots, not bullets address. That's basically what he -- you have the president of United States coming out here telling America ballots, not bullets. That should be pre-kindergarten. That's where we are. And I was proud of him taking on it.
And to your point, we've been moving this direction for a while. 2011, you had a Gabby Giffords shot. She survived barely. 2017, Steve Scalise, a Republican, gets shot. 2020, you have Gretchen, our governor from Michigan, almost kidnapped. January 6th, maybe you hang the vice president. 2022, you've got Paul Pelosi. Don't forget, you also had real fears about what's going to happen to Kavanaugh. And then also then you get to 2024, you have this. This is an exponentially rising curve of political violence being normalized.
And so Donald Trump dodged a bullet, but he did not blame one. America dodged a bullet last night. America dodged a bullet, because if that thing had been a quarter inch over, you would have had an assassination.
And then I don't know how this country comes back from that because half the country would have felt that the other half of the country took their leader. And if only a small percentage of those people felt that means we're in a war, you have millions of people ready to do -- to shoot back.
And so I was proud of Biden. I thought his tone was right. I hope Trump also mentioned that. But this is not just yesterday. We've been moving in this direction for a long time, and we need a U-turn.
COLLINS: Scott, I mean, you advocated for Biden to come out and say a lot of what he did say, which was tone down the rhetoric, that it's on everybody to do that. And he did weave that together, citing instances where there has also been violence against Republicans, against Democrats, and saying this isn't just one side of the political aisle that deals with this.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think he got the platitudes right. Here's where I thought it was lacking. He said the political rhetoric's gotten too hot, and we got to cool it down. And what I wanted him to say was, and you know what, that means me too. Donald Trump is a genuine threat to this nation. He's a threat to our freedom. He's a threat to our democracy. He's literally, literally, a threat to everything America stands for. And a few days later, it's time to put Donald Trump in the bull's eye.
Now, if the president United States had said, I bear some responsibility here and I'm going to do my part, this would have been a home run. He didn't do that. Instead, he spread it all around, which I guess is as far as he's willing to go. But let me tell you how Republicans are going to take that. They're going to take that as a president who has repeatedly said, I want to heal the soul of the nation and the buck stops here, but with an unwillingness to acknowledge some of the things that he has said to bring us to a place that he says we're in.
So, I'm not -- look, let me stipulate two things. I'm praying for Joe Biden. I have been since the debate. We got to do better. And I'm praying for this country because what happened to Donald Trump was an assault on our democracy. And we should all be mad as Americans because that's what happened. But I need the president to take some responsibility.
JONES: Can I ask you a question though?
JENNINGS: Yes.
JONES: I feel your passion and, and, and you are restrained compared to the feelings of a lot of people in your party who are very hurt and very mad.
[21:10:00]
I think on our side, though, the passion should also go to Donald Trump. If you want to go through all the mean, terrible stuff, he said, there's not a day to go through it. It's a pretty big pile, too.
JENNINGS: I'd like to respond to that.
JONES: Okay, please do.
JENNINGS: But because you're right, and this week is the greatest opportunity for a modern presidential candidate since 9/11, for our president or presidential candidate to unite this country and put us in a better place.
BASH: What are the chances that's going to happen?
JENNINGS: I don't know. I hope good. But Donald Trump has the leverage, he has the capital, he has our attention, and he has the moment. He has the moment. COLLINS: Jonah. So far, Trump has kind of actually taken a maybe surprising to some. Certainly when you talk to his advisers, they want him to stay on the path that he has talking about unity and talking about how he's responded to this so far. It is a question of what happens on that stage behind us, not just on Thursday night when Donald Trump speaks, but on Wednesday night when his vice presidential pick speaks, if it's Senator J.D. Vance, we've seen what he's been saying about this, and also with the other speakers who are going to get up there.
GOLDBERG: Yes. I think I hate the phrase, inflection point, but we kind of are at one in this, insofar as well if the convention takes the tone of fight back, retaliate, retribution, they're coming to get you so we have to get them first, the head of the Heritage Foundation recently said, you know, we're going to have a second American Revolution It'll be bloodless so long as the left let's it be, if that's the response to this, then we are going down a dark path.
I agree entirely with Scott. I disagree with some of his stuff, but his last point I agree with entirely. This is an unbelievable opportunity for Donald Trump to take the high road, which would be a huge political win for him.
BASH: Yes. And I think the point that you're making, Kaitlan, is when it comes to the former president, when it comes to his V.P. pick, that is potentially controllable, if they so choose. There are going to be a lot of speakers here who are not controllable in the best of times and are going to have very -- going to have headline positions. And it is going to be a very open question whether they can or want to follow the path that's got that you're describing right now.
COLLINS: Yes. Audie, I mean, it has changed. We'll see. I mean, there's the different themes for the day, but I've already heard from people who say, I'm working on my speech. I'm tweaking it. I'm changing it. Every person is going to want to talk about what happened last night in Butler, Pennsylvania.
CORNISH: I'll be listening for the word, they. Will there be a lot of language that says they don't want, they shouldn't, they're going after, the they, which is supposed to delineate, right, and to say someone, but they won't say who it is. Maybe they will.
I'm also listening for kind of biblical references and language there. One reaction I noticed is a sense that God had protected the former president, and I'm interested to see if that kind of language will surface and some of these speeches and talks and certainly from the delegates as we were traveling in, you encounter people, and there was a lot of talk about sort of how he is protected, so to speak. It'll be interesting to see if that comes up.
And lastly, you know, I wouldn't discount the terror and change when someone takes a shot at you, like the emotions that go through you and to think that maybe they're all just sitting around politely saying, how should we talk about this this week, when like the adrenaline of that, the intensity of that. When the president got back up, he said, fight. And it will be interesting to see what that morphs into over the next couple of days, but it also could be a version of fight.
COLLINS: Yes, a remarkable moment. Thank you all for that. Of course, we're watching all this closely to see what that speech does look like. This comes as back in Washington, Congress is demanding answers from the Secret Service. Tonight, the Republican chair of the House Intelligence Committee will join me next.
Plus, he captured some of the most remarkable images from that day. They will never be forgotten in American history. One image appears to show the bullet flying right past Donald Trump's face. That photographer who took this photo is here with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: The gunman was positioned on a rooftop about 130 yards away from the former president. And we have new video tonight from TMZ, a warning that this video is obviously and understandably disturbing, it shows the gunman opening fire from that rooftop is the crowd panics and the seconds before countersnipers killed him. Republican and Democratic lawmakers agree on one thing tonight in light of that video, they want answers from the Secret Service. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, is pledging to carry out a full investigation as the chairs of the House Oversight and Homeland Security Committees are also demanding records and testimony.
My next guest is the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and is called the shooting a failure of the overall intelligence network and Chairman Mike Turner joins me now. And, Chairman, great to have you. I understand that the House Intelligence Committee was -- your staff was briefed by the Department of Homeland Security today. What can you tell us about what they learned?
REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Well, I'll be receiving a briefing tomorrow. You know, you don't have to be a security expert to see the failures here, as you were just describing. The fact that the perimeter was not secure really is just astounding, I think, to anyone who looks at it. And the fact that he was able to get off shots where he had already been identified, his position had been identified is -- it's just really confusing and astounding.
We certainly saw heroism from the Secret Service agents on the stage who rose to the occasion to protect Donald Trump, but there are going to be lots of questions that we're going to have. In this instance I think the initial reports that we're receiving are just about the shooter himself. And there's going to be lots of questions there. What contact did he have with others? Not just his motivation, which obviously was to kill Donald Trump, but why?
And the whole fact that reconnaissance occurred and he found this place to be located that gave him such this clear shot that could have resulted in the death of Donald Trump are all questions that are going to have to be answered as to how did this incident come about.
[21:20:07] COLLINS: And have you learned anything new about the shooter that you can share with us?
TURNER: Now, at this point, the investigation is going to be ongoing. There are going to be things that are going to be difficult to learn. I mean, it's not as simple as going into his iPhone and looking at his texts and emails. We'll be looking at, you know, what was his presence in social media, what does he have, other types of email accounts that, for which they're encrypted or difficult to get to, who is he in communications with, all of those are going to be things to be able to paint the picture of who this gentleman was.
COLLINS: Yes. And is your briefing that you said you have tomorrow with the Department of Homeland Security or who do you expect to be briefing?
TURNER: FBI, the briefings with the FBI.
COLLINS: What are the major questions you have for the FBI?
TURNER: Well, you know, indeed, it's also concerning to me as to how the passing of the baton between Secret Service and the FBI occurs in this. The FBI is doing, the investigation, Secret Service is supposed to secure the location. But we need to make certain that we leverage, all of our law enforcement and all of our security forces, understand what should be happening, where were the failures and how can we fix them right away? The fact that that this so glaringly was placing Donald Trump's life at risk really requires immediate action, and I'm certainly going to look to the FBI is to what he said, they're going to be immediately working with the Secret Service. So, this does not happen again.
Thank God Donald Trump survived and thank God that that iconic photo of him standing there with his strength, rising back up the podium to let us all know that that he's alive. You know, thank God that the shooter was not successful. And certainly, you know, our condolences to the family who lost a loved one and to those -- as we give our prayers to those who are healing, you know, you have to think people should not go to a political rally and lose their life in America.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's something everyone can agree on. And when you have questions about the security lapses at that rally that, as you said, are obvious, you know, the Secret Service said today, there's no changes to the security around the Republican National Convention. President Biden ordered them to review that. Do you think changes should be made in light of what happened in Butler?
TURNER: Well, I think certainly they should review the perimeter itself, because as you become aware that there is a heightened threat, the natural response is to create a larger security perimeter. I would think that that certainly would be worthwhile here in this instance, knowing that there are others who have seen this. This is obviously a vital, volatile time and they need to rise to the occasion.
COLLINS: We haven't gotten a full comprehensive briefing from the Secret Service yet either. Obviously, they're still investigating, but we have heard from the FBI. We heard from Pennsylvania State Police late last night. Is the Secret Service being transparent enough? Would you like to hear from the director publicly?
TURNER: Absolutely, and I think we will. I mean, the big question everybody also has is that now that we're getting the picture of the people that were there that this individual had been identified, not just how did he get there, but how was he able to do this. Once he had been identified, he should not have been permitted to get off, not even one shot, nevertheless, eight.
COLLINS: House Intelligence Chair Mike Turner, I hope you'll come back and let us know how that briefing goes tomorrow and if you learn any new information. Thank you for joining us.
TURNER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And with all of these major questions, I am joined now by CNN Law Enforcement Contributor and retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Steve Moore and also CNN's senior law enforcement analyst, the former Washington D.C. police chief and the Philadelphia police commissioner, Charles Ramsey. And it's great to have both of your expertise here tonight with so many questions that we have.
Steve, we did hear from President Biden on where this investigation stands tonight. This is what he said from the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We do not know the motive of the shooter yet. We don't know his opinions or affiliations. We don't know whether he had help or support or if he communicated with anyone else. Law enforcement professionals, as I speak, are investigating those questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That part there at the end caught my ear about if he acted alone or in concert with other people. How do they go through determining that? We know they're trying to get access to his phone tonight. What else did they do?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there's certain things that you would see if there were was assistance. You would see him doing things, utilizing money that wasn't his. You would have unknown funding covering certain things. And so there would be things that just stick out to the investigator. So, what the president was probably told is that there is no indication of an accomplice. There is no indication of any of these things that we are looking at.
Is that there is no indication of an accomplice. There is no indication of any of these things that we are looking at. It doesn't mean that it's not there. But so far there's been no indication of this, and so you can't say, well, he was absolutely alone, absolutely had no political ideation on this. It's just that there isn't anything obvious now.
[21:25:00] COLLINS: And, Chief Ramsey, when you look at the actual scene and talking about what that looked like there, look at the shooter's location here, I mean, outside that security perimeter. Obviously, if you're familiar with these rallies, they have an outer perimeter, a middle perimeter, an inner perimeter. That's just the stage where Donald Trump himself usually is with agents around him. But outside of that, where the shooter was, it's about 120, maybe 130 yards from the lectern.
You have run police departments that have worked for the Secret Service on coordinating security for these big events. So, when it comes down to it, ultimately, where does the responsibility lie for that roof building and securing it where that shooter was located?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I believe the responsibility lies with everyone who was involved in the security planning. That includes the Secret Service as well as state and local police that were involved. Now, they have an inner perimeter, you have an outer perimeter. Bottom line is, he was about 130 to 150 yards away from the former president and was able to get off a volley of shots.
Now, our understanding based on the reporting is that, you know, law enforcement and spectators saw this individual, thought he was suspicious. That information was related to the Secret Service, but it's not just on the Secret Service. What about the officers that were closest by to? Who reached out and actually tried to put their hands on this guy to find out who he was?
He never should have been able to get on a rooftop. Supposedly, this was identified and hopefully was identified a few days before, as they began to look at the location where the rally was going to be held. You know you've got a building there. You know you've got the possibility of somebody getting high ground and being able to take a shot, should they choose to do so. You have to pay attention to these things. Did they use drones? Did they have an adequate number of people stationed in these buildings and around these buildings to make sure no one would have direct access to it? There are a lot of questions.
But the ultimate responsibility for the protection of the former president and the president is the Secret Service. So, they can't wash their hands of it and say, well, that was the locals. They had that part of it. No, you've got it all, but you've got help. And so it's everybody's responsibility.
COLLINS: And, Steve, you know, I've been to dozens of these Trump rallies and I've seen the counter snipers. They're often -- wherever you are, you can see them on top of the White House, in certain locations, any high rise structure, you can see them there typically. But normally, you see them. They're kind of walking around. They have binoculars. They're looking. You see the video that we see from Saturday night the two countersnipers are in position and then obviously ultimately fired the shots that killed this gunman. I mean, what does that tell you about did they see something or how did they got into position here? MOORE: Well, they were they were what we call on their guns the entire time, which is different from obviously somebody walking around. Somebody who's walking around on on a sniper perch or a roof nearby is somebody who's not useful as a sniper. You've got to be on your gun. You've got to be ready to fire. I was trained in this years ago, and one thing you learn is that if you're not on your gun, you're useless.
So, I think what you're seeing here is only two of the maybe one team of countersnipers. I believe there were at least two more. And they were from all different directions if they were doing this right. So, yes, I see them ready to go but I'm kind of curious as to why none of the observers -- you know, you go sniper and observer teams, why none of the observers saw somebody climbing up on the roof, even though it was technically out of the inner perimeter? It's still -- I mean, 150 yards for a trained sniper, that's a gimme.
COLLINS: Yes. And there were four countersniper teams, we're told. Obviously, we don't know where the others were located in this area. Chief Ramsey, just overall, I have spoken to you so many times in moments of crisis where we are watching scenes unfolding and, obviously, transparency is key. And even if investigations are still underway, it's important to get facts out there, to get information out there. I wonder what you make of how the Secret Service has been in terms of being forthcoming.
[21:30:00]
They weren't at that press briefing last night. There was one agent who was speaking today about RNC security here in Milwaukee. Has it been sufficient in your view?
RAMSEY: No, it hasn't. And they made a mistake, in my opinion, did not at least have a presence at the press conference last night. And the press conference today, I watched it and I don't know what the goal was, but if it was to reassure the public that, you know, they've got this and that they'll make whatever changes they have to make and that security is going to be enhanced. They failed at it because they just didn't say anything.
I mean, someone from headquarters, in my opinion, should have been there, or at least given permission to the coordinator to be able to at least say, we had -- the incident that occurred last night is under investigation. We're going to take a deep dive into it. We'll make whatever adjustments we have to make to make sure this doesn't happen again and so forth and so on. They didn't even do that. You know, in fact, there's my understanding that the prior to the press conference, one of the people said, told the members of the press, don't ask me a question about last night. Well, what do you think the press is going to do? That's going to be the first question they ask.
You have to be out front and you have to address this. You can't hide from it. Bad news doesn't get better over time.
COLLINS: Yes, I think you said it best. Chief Charles Ramsey, Steve Moore, great to have both of your expertise amid these lingering questions tonight. Thank you for that. And up next, we are going to hear from an eyewitness to history, feet away from Donald Trump during this assassination attempt. He is known to everyone in the White House Press Corps. Veteran photographer Doug Mills captured the iconic images that will be in the history books, including the one that appears to show a bullet flying right behind Donald Trump. We'll show you those images and talk to him after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: We're getting new information in this hour as a White House official tells CNN that the first lady, Jill Biden, has now spoken with the former first lady, Melania Trump, following that assassination attempt on her husband's life. The two spoke sometime this afternoon, we are told, and, of course, we saw that statement from the former first lady earlier today calling on the country, and these are her words, to ascend above the hate in these times. More on what we heard from Melania Trump tonight in a moment.
But I want to talk about those 94 seconds that passed from the first gunshot to the moment that former President Donald Trump was taken off stage by his Secret Service protection detail. All 94 terrifying seconds were immortalized in videos, pictures and audio.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You see something that's said, take a look at what happened --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we doing? What are we doing? Where are we going?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go around to the spare. Go around to the spare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move to the spare, hold, hold. When you're ready, on you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hawkeye's here, moving to the spare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spare get ready, spare get ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Shooter's down. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we good?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooter's down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Are we good to move?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. We're good to move.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we clear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear. We're clear. We're clear.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes. Let me get my shoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you, sir. I got you, sir.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, your head is bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we got to move to the car, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to move. We got to move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next guest was there to witness all of it. The Pulitzer Prize winning photographer for The New York Times, Doug Mills, is where he often is when news is happening in the front row. He captured the chilling moment as a bullet appeared to whiz past the former president's ear. And Doug Mills is here with me now.
And, one, I'm so grateful that you're safe. And being in that press corps and to see the people we know. I saw your white hat running in front of the stage as all this was happening. I mean, you were feet away from Donald Trump. When did you realize what was going on?
DOUG MILLS, VETERAN PRESIDENTIAL PHOTOGRAPHER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Kaitlan, I guess I was trying to put him between the flag and the podium and photographing there. And then when he kind of gestured to his right and I heard the pops, you know, I don't have a gun, so I don't know what an AR-15 sounds like, never heard one. At first, I thought it was like a motorcycle or some sort of machinery. And then when I saw him grab his ear and he kind of winced and then immediately went down, I thought, oh my God, he's been shot.
I mean, I get chills saying it now and there was so much adrenaline going on then. Once he went down, my first reaction was to run around to the side and try and get a picture of him down on the ground. And by that time, I got there, he was completely covered by the Secret Service agents that are on his detail. And, you know, all the staff is yelling, the Secret Service is yelling at me, yelling at all the other photographers. There were four of us in the buffer zone, as you know. And it was pretty chaotic and they just kept yelling get down, active shooter, get down, get down, get down.
And I probably didn't do the safest thing because I reacted and went straight to the stage and started shooting, just, you know, taking pictures, just like a lot of the other photographers.
[21:40:06]
COLLINS: And could you hear what was happening there?
MILLS: That audio I had not heard before. I mean, it gives me chills, but I did not hear any. All we heard was the screaming, the woman crying we heard. I did hear it the right at the beginning, when I got around the corner, I thought I heard him yelling, sir, down, down, down, down, and then it was just nothing but get down, get down, active shooter, get down, get down. And then at one point I started thinking about, okay, is he alive? You know, I was just like, what's going on? They're completely covering him. And then I thought, okay, I've got to get over to the side because I think they're going to take him off the stairs. You and I know how that setup looks. And as many times as we've covered the president, they have to give an exit for him. There has to be an egress.
COLLINS: And then you take this photo. I mean, this is the photo where in that red circle, that's what appears to be the bullet that ultimately pierced his ear. Did you know that you had that photo?
MILLS: I had no idea. I mean, when I started looking through my Sony camera to try and transmit him back to the office, the first things I was thinking of was I got to get the pictures of him coming off stage, showing his bloody ear and that defiant fist pump that he gave. So, those were the first pictures I sent. And the pool was directed back off the stage. And when the president left in the SUV to go to the hospital, they told us, hey, you guys have all got to move out of here. This is an active crime scene. You've got to move. We've got to find a place for you.
So, they literally took us to the president's hold at the tent where he normally comes -- he's in there before, before he comes on stage.
COLLINS: The staff's still in there?
MILLS: Staff was in there. There were a lot of tears in that tent and it was hard to see. A lot of members of the staff were hugging each other, a lot of tears, a couple of the press people were pretty upset about it.
COLLINS: Doug, you have covered the White House and so many presidents and you're this brilliant photographer and I think it's always kind of in the back of your mind when you're covering someone who obviously has a lot of threats against them. Did you ever think that you'd see an attempted assassination?
MILLS: I never dreamed of it, never thought of it, never -- I was very young when Ronald Reagan, the assassination attempt against him happened and I never even thought that that would ever. It was always a possibility, but I always thought it would be in not in a secure -- what I felt like a secure situation like that, where there was so much, you know, security presence, there's police everywhere, whether they're on the roofs or on the ground, you have local police, you have state police, you have police from out of town, Secret Service. So, I never, never once thought it would be happened right in front of me.
And I really didn't know that the, that I had that picture into one of the editors after I sent all the first pictures, and I was just like, oh my gosh, I got a text back saying you won't believe what's on one of your images. And she sent -- you know, Jennifer sent it back to me and said, you know, I think we can actually see a bullet. And I said, well, hold on until I get the actual raw image out of my camera to look. And so I put it on my laptop and I was able to confirm and put away a lot of the conspiracy theories that were going out there, which is, you know, it's really hard to, to see.
COLLINS: And it shows why your work is so important and the other photographers who were there. Doug Mills, thank you and we're just grateful that you're safe.
MILLS: Thank you, Kaitlan. Grateful everybody's safe.
COLLINS: Absolutely. And, of course, we are following and continuing to follow the breaking news here on former President Donald Trump and the investigation that is underway into that attempted assassination.
Also, there are major changes going to be happening on what was scheduled to happen on stage here behind me when the Republican convention gets kicked off to tomorrow. We'll tell you what differences to expect right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: Just in, as we are learning from former President Donald Trump in an interview with the Washington Examiner, saying that he has completely rewritten the speech that he is set to deliver from where I am now at the Republican Convention in Milwaukee on Thursday night. He says the new focus will be unity, not President Biden, telling the Examiner and I'm quoting Trump now, it is a chance to bring the country together. I was given that chance.
Donald Trump's new remarks coming shortly after President Biden and lawmakers in Washington appeared to be on the same page about one thing, turning down the heat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The political record in this country has gotten very heated. It's time to cool it down.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): The way we settle political differences in America is through vigorous debates and campaigns and ultimately elections, not through political violence. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): What a democracy is about is not radical rhetoric. What it is about is a serious discussion of where we are as a nation and how we go forward.
JOHNSON: We have to see one another as fellow Americans and not enemies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is a sentiment being shared by lawmakers with very different political views. But we've also heard from others, like Ohio Senator J.D. Vance, also a vice presidential contender for Donald Trump, who posted this in the hours after the shooting, saying the central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs. That rhetoric led directly to President Trump's attempted assassination.
Joining me tonight is Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. And, Senator, I think a lot of people turn to lawmakers when something like this happens. Obviously, this is unprecedented, but in a moment of crisis like this, and I just wonder from your perspective, is Trump is saying this speech is going to meet the moment that history demands.
[21:50:00]
It's a chance to bring together. Why in a moment like this it has turned to finger-pointing for some instead of really soul searching?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Well, I can't speak to what motivates that. I mean, obviously we live in a culture that often you see people trying to exploit moments for political gain. But I have been affirmed by some of those voices I've been hearing, not just on both sides of the aisle but in the larger elements of our culture. And I agree fully that we need to tamp down political rhetoric. But I'm hoping we go a lot further than that.
I get to serve on the Foreign Relations Committee and travel around the world. And I'm now convinced that the greatest threat to this nation, it's not some foreign adversary, it's the growing tribalism and hate within our own country where we find it hard to recognize that the lines that divide us are not nearly as strong as the ties that bind us, in fact, that we need each other. No side is going to vanquish the other. We have to find more ways to build common ground and to find common cause. That's America at its best. And, frankly, it's the America that the world needs.
And so I hope this isn't just tamping down the political rhetoric, but recognizing that often our politics don't really tell the truth about us, that we actually have more things that we agree on than we disagree on, that there is a lot of room for compromise and a lot of room, frankly, to do great things together as a country.
COLLINS: President Biden ran in 2020 hoping to heal the deep divisions that we do still see in the United States today. I wonder from your view what that campaign, what his campaign looks like in the wake of an attack on his political rival. He did say he's going to continue with it this week.
BOOKER: Well, you know, I remember during the primaries literally standing next to him on the debate stage and then backstage talking about these themes that would eventually become a lot of what he said he wanted to campaign on. And I agree with him. We are a nation that needs healing. I mean, we have people that can't even sit down at the same Thanksgiving table because of the hatred within their own family that's centered around political tribalism.
And I've had so many experiences out and about in airports where people recognize me and not always for the good people, you know, come at me. And I try to remind them and I've had some breakthroughs and letting them know that, wait a minute, I bet you there's more we agree on than we disagree on. And we have a lot of this sort of this competition now, whether it's for social media platforms or a lot of our news that really has to try to keep people's eyes on screens and often focus on division and debate and the misbehavior of politicians.
And that seems to really miss the larger point that there are a lot of bipartisan bills that get done. I've done a lot that don't receive the same proportional attention as the debates and the fights and the bad behavior. We have got to start reexamining our culture in terms of our political divisiveness and tribalism and start doing things that really do heal us by opening ourselves up to the ideas with more empathy and compassion to other folk.
COLLINS: This has obviously upended the 2024 campaign and what we are hearing from both candidates. What does it mean for what we were just talking about a few days ago, the efforts by some people in your party to get Biden to step down from the top of the ticket? Do you believe that the president should stay as the Democratic nominee for your party?
BOOKER: Well, let me tell you, those discussions are still going on. I think a lot of folks obviously are still dealing with the tragedy of yesterday. The death of an American, two others critically wounded, and the assassination attempt on the president of the United States.
I know President Biden is the nominee right now, and we're heading to our own convention. And I think the president knows he has a lot of work to do to do what's important, which is to unify the Democratic Party and get excitement and enthusiasm.
And, again, I know they're making a lot of -- having a lot of difficult conversations and having a lot of soul searching about what the best way forward is. I know there's a lot of people that have disagreeing views. But I know the most important thing for Democrats are the ideals and principles that we fight for, making sure Americans have healthcare and affordable prescription drugs, making sure that we step up and continue to grow this economy in a way that works, not just for some, but for everyone, making sure that we address some of the larger issues of our time.
COLLINS: Where do you personally stand, Senator?
BOOKER: You know, I've been very, very pointed with press all throughout the week that I'm not airing these things publicly. I have very directly had conversations with the White House, with the president and his team and with Chuck Schumer, our leader. But I'm a big believer that right now the worst thing to do in terms of hurting the Democratic brand is to air a lot of these issues publicly.
[21:55:04]
That's my decision. And I'm going to make sure that I position myself best to support whoever our nominee is coming out of the convention.
COLLINS: Senator Cory Booker, thank you for your time tonight.
I do want to offer a quick programming note. I mentioned that new interview that former President Donald Trump has done with Salena Zito of the Washington Examiner. She will be coming up at 10:00 with Abby Phillip. We'll be back in a moment after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A tragedy took place in Butler, Pennsylvania, last night, where one person was killed, three more were wounded, including, of course, the former president of the United States. Each of them has a family that was impacted by the violence, violence that will stay with them forever. The former first lady, Melania Trump, put it this way in a letter to the nation today, sharing how her and Barron Trump's life, as she put it, were quote, on the brink of a devastating change. She wrote that her husband's passion, laughter, ingenuity, love of music and inspiration were almost taken away by a violent bullet.
[22:00:02]
Tonight, the families of three other men who were at that rally are also permanently changed. David Dutch and James Copenhaver were both shot and are now in stable condition thankfully tonight, after being critically injured at that rally. We're told that both are resting at hospitals with scars, both physical and emotional that will last longer than any presidential election.
And the wife and the daughters of Corey Comperatore are mourning the loss of their girl dad tonight. As a fighter, Corey earned the title hero, but it was his last act that may have been his most heroic. Corey's family says that he dove onto them to protect them from the bullets that ultimately took his own life.
A GoFundMe page has been set up for his family and for the others who were impacted. And our prayers are there tonight for a full recovery for both David and James, but also for Corey's family, our condolences. May his memory be a blessing.
Thank you all so much for joining us here on The Source live from Milwaukee. CNN's NewsNight with Abby Phillip starts now.
