Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Buttigieg: Harris Has "Brought The Party Together"; Sen. Warren: Vance "More Extreme" Than Trump On Abortion; Lawyer: Giuliani's First-Class RNC Travel Was Paid For By "My Pillow Guy" Mike Lindell's Media Platform. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 23, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He will actually be stepping in for First Lady Jill Biden and headlining those. One is July 29th. That is set to include a conversation with David Letterman. That will take place in Vineyard Haven, Massachusetts. The other one is just a couple of days later, in Yarmouth, Maine.
We also understand that the Governor of Hawaii, Josh Green, will be at that first fundraiser, on July 29th. Again, he is stepping in for first lady Jill Biden.
But Anderson, this really shouldn't surprise us. We expect that his schedule will ramp up, because certainly in 2020--
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
KAYE: --on the campaign trail, he spoke at a lot of rallies. He was very active on social media.
COOPER: Yes.
KAYE: And he was really out there.
COOPER: Randi Kaye, thanks so much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Two of the biggest power players, in the Democratic Party, Pete Buttigieg, and Elizabeth Warren are here, live. As Vice President Harris is rallying a boisterous crowd, in a battleground state. And President Biden is returning to the White House, preparing to address the nation. As Donald Trump is unleashing new attack lines on both.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening from Washington, where President Biden has returned to the White House, as he's preparing to address the nation, tomorrow night, as Vice President Harris is holding her first rally, as the top of the Democratic ticket. The new presumptive Democratic nominee got a roaring reception, from supporters, in battleground Wisconsin, today, as she unleashed the kind of fired-up attack on Donald Trump that many Democrats have been clamoring for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Donald Trump wants to take our country backward.
We who believe in reproductive freedom.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Will stop Donald Trump's extreme abortion bans because we trust women to make decisions about their own body.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And not have their government tell them what to do.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Do we want to live in a country of freedom?
(AUDIENCE RESPONDS "YES")
HARRIS: Compassion, and rule of law?
(AUDIENCE RESPONDS "YES")
HARRIS: Or a country of chaos, fear and hate?
(AUDIENCE RESPONDS "NO")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Donald Trump, in the meantime, unleashed a flurry of attacks of his own, as House Republicans are now accusing Harris of being a diversity hire, despite the Republican House Speaker urging his rank- and-file, to stop doing so. And despite the fact that she was indeed elected.
Trump also said today that he does want to debate Vice President Harris, potentially more than once, if she becomes the formal nominee. We'll see if we get there.
But first things first, as she is seeing a surge in fundraising and enthusiasm from her own party. Vice President Harris does have one big thing on her plate, selecting a running mate, with just weeks to go before the Democratic convention.
I'm joined tonight by Pete Buttigieg, who is here, I should note, in his personal capacity, as a member of the Democratic Party, not as the Secretary of Transportation.
So, thank you very much for being here. And given that, obviously we'll focus on the politics of this.
We are going to hear from President Biden, though, tomorrow night. What kind of role do you envision him playing, in the campaign, over the next four months?
PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: Well, I think he's somebody whose standing has gone even higher, in the Democratic Party now. Not only has he cemented his place, as one of the most effective and, I think, successful modern presidents. But he's also made a selfless choice, in the interest of the country, and in the interest of the party.
But he's also, I think, very focused. At least I expect to hear from him a focus on the remainder of this term, when there still is a huge amount of work to be done. And I think he'll lay out that vision, in addition to one for the party. He really will be speaking as somebody, who can command so much respect, in the party, and across the nation.
COLLINS: Yes, and he said he plans to be on the campaign trail.
But when it comes to Harris herself. A few years ago, you were running in the Democratic primary, against Harris. You believed that you were best-positioned to beat Donald Trump. Why do you think Vice President Harris is the best candidate to beat Donald Trump now?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think we've seen it even just in the last 48 hours, the speed with which she has brought the party together, and the energy with which she has not just, as she sometimes says, prosecuted the case against Donald Trump, but also begun to lay out the kind of vision that is going to make Americans better off.
It's a phenomenal contrast between President Trump, who is consumed by his own past. And Kamala Harris, who is talking about our future.
I also really admired the focus on freedom. That was a really big part of her comments, today and yesterday, because I think that's a big part of what is at stake.
I'm old enough to remember when freedom was something you usually heard talked about, on the Republican side, and among conservatives.
But right now, I think we have many, many examples why Americans will experience more secure freedom, under a Kamala Harris presidency than under a return to the chaos of Donald Trump, and the systematic reduction of freedom, starting, of course, with Donald Trump following through on his promise to end a woman's freedom to choose and access abortion rights in this country.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Well, and Donald Trump said today that he does want to debate Vice President Harris, maybe more so than once. One of the issues that--
BUTTIGIEG: Only after backing out of the debate he already agreed to though, right? Somehow citing-- COLLINS: Yes, he -- today, he is -- has an issue--
BUTTIGIEG: Yes, we'll see.
COLLINS: --with doing it with ABC.
BUTTIGIEG: Right. But he did, when he agreed to in the first place, right?
COLLINS: He wants to do it with Fox.
BUTTIGIEG: I mean, I think the interesting thing about this is, what changed from when he said he was ready to do an ABC debate, and when he now says he's not? ABC didn't change. Donald Trump didn't change. But there's a new candidate. And clearly, he hesitates to debate her on the exact same terms that he thought would be OK.
COLLINS: So you think he's--
BUTTIGIEG: Afraid.
COLLINS: --scared to debate her?
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
COLLINS: Why do you think so?
BUTTIGIEG: Because I think she is going to be so effective. And she's going to lay bare his inability, to talk about anything, but himself and his past. I think what you'll see is two things that I'm ready for, excited for, Americans to see.
Yes, the contrast. The way, as she laid out very powerfully, she, as a prosecutor, who has defended people, from people like Donald Trump, is going to remind everybody about that record.
But also a contrast in governing records. She's going to be, I think, very effective, in reminding Americans that on issue after issue, they already agree with us. They already agree with her and Democrats.
They -- Americans agree with Democrats and disagree with Donald Trump on taxes, and his agenda to tax cut the -- of tax cuts for the rich. They agree with Kamala Harris, Democrats, and disagree with Donald Trump, on his removal of the right to choose in this country. And gun violence, marriage, you can go on down the list. I think she's very well-positioned to remind Americans of that fact.
COLLINS: Well, and Trump also has a record on immigration. We saw what he did with the bill that was negotiated by some Republicans, a bipartisan group, on Capitol Hill, earlier.
But there's also a record for the Biden administration. And it's been one of the lower points, where they have polled. And it is also a top concern for voters.
So, what does that look like for Harris, as how she defends how the Biden administration has handled immigration, but also maybe trying to separate herself, from some of those decisions?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think she's going to be able to, again, remind Americans of the difference, between somebody who's focused on solutions, and somebody who is focused on anything that can divide us.
This bipartisan immigration bill that Donald Trump helped to kill, would have made a difference at the border. And it was negotiated, by the way, with very conservative Republicans, as well as Democrats.
Why did Donald Trump kill that? Well, because he actually needs things to be terrible at the border. He's not interested in the immigration issue, or the border issue becoming less chaotic. Chaos is his oxygen. He is for anything that will make it more chaotic in this country, which is why, again, he went out of his way to intervene, in a congressional process, and blocked that compromise from happening.
COLLINS: Yes. But if she's pressed on?
After that was sunk, you saw President Biden sign an executive order, cracking down on asylum-seekers at the border, and what those limits look like, depending on how many people are crossing the border each day.
If she's pressed on an issue like that, does she defend it? Does she say that it was the right move at the right time? Or is there room for her to stake new ground on something like that?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, we'll see how she speaks to that, and how she wants to lead the conversation on that. But she will already be in a position, to talk about an administration, the Biden-Harris administration that made tough choices, to help with this issue.
And someone like Donald Trump, who has gone out of his way to make this issue worse, because the worse it is for America, the better it is for him.
COLLINS: There's a new Marist Poll out today, as we're in this search for a running mate. It actually has you at the top of it. Also, Governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer. Both are on 21 percent. That's among Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters.
We've heard a lot of governors being on this list. Do you believe that a cabinet secretary, with a residence in Michigan, who's from Indiana should be on that list?
BUTTIGIEG: It's day two, since President Biden made his decision. What I know is that nobody's more of an expert other than maybe Joe Biden.
Nobody's more of an expert on the vice presidency, and on how that process should work than somebody like Kamala Harris. I know she's going to have a process, and make a decision that makes sense for her, for the party, and for the country.
COLLINS: Yes. Have you had any conversations about it, though, or?
BUTTIGIEG: I've had one conversation with her. And it was on Sunday. And it was about how excited I am, for her to lead this party, and the fact that I was going to support her. The ticket did not come up.
COLLINS: OK. So, nothing on the ticket there.
Donald Trump said today that he doesn't regret picking J.D. Vance as his vice-presidential nominee, in this process, despite the fact that it happened before he knew that Harris was going to be at the top of the ticket, as we believe.
Do you think that there's someone she could pick, as her Vice President that would make him regret that choice?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, again, that's going to be her call, her process.
[21:10:00]
But what I will say is the choice of J.D. Vance is a regrettable choice. Because he's somebody, who was at his most convincing and effective, when he talked about how unfit for office Donald Trump is. And he has not explained any reason other than, of course, his obvious interest in power, why he would have changed his mind on that.
Remember, J.D. Vance's whole identity is that he is connected to Appalachia, a place that is being hurt so profoundly by the opioid crisis. So, the fact that he didn't just refer to Donald Trump as an idiot, though he did, didn't just say all kinds of things about how he was terrible, but compared Donald Trump to opioids? That is literally the darkest, most negative thing someone connected to Appalachia could possibly say, about a politician. And that was in public, right? In private, he was comparing him to Hitler, reportedly.
He has yet to explain, why his opinion would be any different other than his own search for power.
COLLINS: So, when he says, I watched Donald Trump in office, that's what changed my mind? You don't -- you're not buying that?
BUTTIGIEG: That doesn't make any sense. Especially coming from the Midwest. He's from Ohio. I grew up in Indiana, and live in Michigan. I have seen how the industrial Midwest went into a manufacturing recession, under Donald Trump, and has experienced a manufacturing renaissance under the Biden-Harris administration.
Why is that? Because Biden-Harris administration has led on policies that have factories rising out of the ground, in places, including places like near where I grew up, that haven't seen this kind of investment in a generation.
How could J.D. Vance or anybody else initially think that Donald Trump is a disaster, watch him lead the country into a manufacturing recession? This is, by the way, before COVID, let alone everything that happened through the mismanagement of COVID. And then say, oh, now I've seen the light. He is a great leader, and I want to be on his team.
COLLINS: Do you think--
BUTTIGIEG: I think we all know why J.D. Vance changed his mind.
COLLINS: Do you think Harris will be able to appeal to those skeptical working-class voters, in a Michigan, in a Wisconsin, in a Pennsylvania? Those are voters that Biden had real crossover appeal with them in 2020. Do you think Harris will be able to have that outreach to them?
BUTTIGIEG: Yes. And I think the reason is, again, that most voters, where I come from, agree with her on most issues.
We talked about taxes, right? The Republican Party, whether we're talking about Donald Trump, or J.D. Vance, despite the kind of faux populism, they are about tax cuts for the rich and for corporations. One of the few promises that Donald Trump actually kept, was the one to cut taxes for the rich. That's what they're about.
And by the way, they're also against things like the minimum wage, against labor unions. J.D. Vance got a, I think, a 0 percent rating from the AFL-CIO. You compare that with Kamala Harris, who is a distinct leader in her own right, but also part of an administration that is the most pro-union in modern American history.
There are so many issues, bread-and-butter issues, like questions on the cost of childcare that Donald Trump was literally, it seemed, incapable of even hearing, during the first debate, certainly incapable of responding to.
COLLINS: Yes.
BUTTIGIEG: But it's something that Kamala Harris has been very focused on, making it easier and more affordable to raise a family in this country.
COLLINS: That childcare answer, in the debate, from both candidates was, I think, kind of confounding to everyone.
But I'm glad you brought up children, because there's actually this answer that J.D. Vance gave a few years ago, and he named-dropped you in it about people, who don't have children, working in the government.
This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's just a basic fact. You look at Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, AOC. The entire future of the Democrats is controlled by people without children. And how does it make any sense that we've turned our country over to people, who don't really have a direct stake in it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, I should note, you have two children. They were born before he gave that answer.
Harris is also a stepmom to children as well.
But what do you -- what's your response to that?
BUTTIGIEG: It's, I mean, the really sad thing is he said that after Chasten, and I, had been through a fairly heartbreaking setback in our adoption journey. He couldn't have known that. But maybe that's why you shouldn't be talking about other people's children.
And it's not about his kids, or my kids, or the Vice President's family. It's about your family, people's families, whose wellbeing will depend on whether we go into a future, led by somebody, like Kamala Harris, who is focused on expanding the prosperity, the freedom, the wellbeing of our families.
And by the way, especially if you have kids, and you're worried about climate? Choosing between a party that has a plan on climate that creates jobs, and a party that still calls it a hoax, even as we went through the hottest day in world history.
Or do you want your children to grow up in a country defined by a return to the chaos, and recrimination and cruelty? That was the hallmark of the Trump era.
COLLINS: Pete Buttigieg, thank you for your time tonight.
BUTTIGIEG: Thank you.
COLLINS: It's great to hear from you. Great to have you on THE SOURCE.
BUTTIGIEG: Appreciate it.
COLLINS: Much more on the fight ahead for Vice President Harris. We have another big player, in Washington, who is going to join me here on set. Our exclusive interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren. That's next.
[21:15:00]
Also tonight. Rudy Giuliani owes roughly $150 million to creditors. So, I was surprised to see him sitting in first class, on our flight to the Republican convention. We just found out who paid for it, and why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The location and the message of Vice President Harris' first big campaign stop today show two big priorities in this 2024 race. How much of a must-win state Wisconsin really is, and also how important an issue the economy is going to be in this election.
[21:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Wisconsin, this campaign is also about two different visions for our nation: one where we are focused on the future, the other focused on the past.
We believe in a future where every person has the opportunity not just to get by but to get ahead.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm joined now by a key player, in the Democratic Party, especially among the progressives. Senator Elizabeth Warren is here.
And it's great to have you here, Senator. Thank you for being here.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): It's good to be here.
COLLINS: On the economy. What does it look like for Vice President Harris out on the campaign trail, selling her vision of the economy, given she is closely tied to President Biden, and it is one of the areas where voters probably give him the lowest marks, on his handling of the economy.
WARREN: So, I think of it this way. I have known Kamala Harris for nearly 15 years. I've known her since she was Attorney General of California, and I was setting up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, all this is in the wake of the 2008 crash.
We were shoulder-to-shoulder, fighting back against these giant banks that had cheated people, and now were trying to take their homes away. And so, that is the lens through which I see Kamala, in every economic decision.
And I've watched it play out over and over through then, through people who got cheated by those for-profit colleges, through people who were getting cheated through junk fees and tricks in contracts.
One of the defining features of Kamala Harris' whole career has been to be in there fighting, on behalf of families, who aren't asking for a handout, they just want a level playing field. They just want a chance not to get mowed down, by the giant corporations, who just looks at them as a way to squeeze more profits.
And I think that's the Kamala Harris, that the American people are going to come to know. And they're going to trust her, going forward, in how we build that economy that works, not just for the billionaires, but works for everybody.
COLLINS: So, you think voters will be able to essentially separate out how she'll handle it compared to how they view how President Biden has handled it?
WARREN: I--
COLLINS: I know, the White House thinks it's unfair, given their record.
WARREN: And I understand that. COLLINS: But it's how voters see it.
WARREN: I understand it.
I think it's a fresh day. I think we're -- I think what we're doing is we're turning a page here. And that Kamala Harris has this moment, where she gets to tell the world, about who she is, and what she will fight for. And I know, on the economic front, what she will fight for. And that's hard-working families.
And let me just say, talk about sharp contrast. When you've got somebody like Donald Trump. So here he is, off making deals with the billionaires, right? I'll give giant tax cuts to billionaires, if they will contribute to his campaign.
And we now know the tax package that Joe -- that former President Trump wants to go forward with, would give $3.5 million, every year, in tax cuts, to the billionaires. And thanks to Project 2025, we know how they're going to pay for it. And that is an ordinary middle-class family of four is going to pay $2,600 more in taxes, every year.
I think that Vice President Harris is going to show that difference. And the American people, I think, are going to go with the one, who's fighting for them and not for the billionaires.
COLLINS: And well, I'm glad you just brought that up. Because as you were on the way in, tonight, and we were -- I was thinking about our conversation, I got a notice from the pool, traveling with Harris, saying that she was going to an event with campaign supporters, in Maryland, that was organized by a top executive at JPMorgan.
And I just wonder, given your hesitation about Wall Street? I think that's putting it generously. If you have any concern about her connection with them, and so many of the big Wall Street players that are backing her in this election?
WARREN: Look, I have always been worried about the influence of big money in politics.
But you know what gives me a lot of reassurance, right now, is that more than a million people, over the last 36 hours, have gone to kamalaharris.com, and said, I want to be part of this, and here's my five bucks, here's my 10 bucks.
I am part of helping her build momentum over the next 100 days to take the White House. That tens of thousands of people have now checked in, called in, and said, I want to volunteer, I want to be part of this.
[21:25:00]
So, that I see this as a campaign that is truly driven at the grassroots. And when you've got a campaign that's driven that way, and you've got a candidate like Vice President Harris? I think this means she has a lot of license to be the kind of President she wants to be for those people.
COLLINS: Well I'm glad you brought that up. Because in 2020, you both ran for the Democratic nomination.
WARREN: Yes.
COLLINS: She started out with a kind of a bang, but then her campaign kind of imploded later on, closer to December, not money, not really a coherent message, some campaign staff structure.
Do you think that that's changed now? That she's learned from that in those four years, since the -- you two last ran?
WARREN: So, you will understand, I was not paying a whole lot of attention to how someone else's campaign ran.
COLLINS: Because you were busy with your own.
WARREN: Exactly.
But I knew Kamala. I've known her for a long time. And the Kamala Harris that I see is one that is tough. She is focused. She is principled. And in this three-and-a-half years, that she has served as Vice President of the United States, she has stepped up and taken leadership roles. I think she's come more into herself, and is ready to present that to the American people.
This is, we're right now in this kind of getting-to-know-you moment, in a sense. She's been there. But she's been there as Vice President. Now, she steps up as the leader that she always could be. But it takes a lot of experience, a lot of opportunities, a lot of back-and-forth. And she's got hold of it.
Look -- look what she's done, not just on economic issues, but on abortion. She's been a fantastic leader. And she draws from what she's had from her past. She uses those prosecutorial skills. I watched her do it in the Senate.
I think this is why Donald Trump is afraid of her, right now, and is trying to back up on debates, or any other direct conflict. She's tough. She's got exactly the right set of experiences, to run for president, and more importantly, to be president.
COLLINS: I have a few more questions.
WARREN: Sure.
COLLINS: Especially about what Republicans are saying. If you'll stick around, we're going to take a quick break.
WARREN: You bet.
COLLINS: And then, a few more questions for you, on the other side of the break, with Senator Warren.
Plus tonight, Hillary Clinton has just written a new Op-Ed with new advice for Vice President Harris, tonight. What she thinks she should do, to defeat Donald Trump, after she did not in 2016.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: And I'm back now, with Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren.
And Senator Warren. We heard from Hillary Clinton, tonight, in a new Op-Ed in The New York Times, talking about essentially what she believes Harris can do, and her own experience, running, talking about how she was called a nasty woman that there was double standards, she said.
She also said, "I sometimes shied away from talking about making history," because "I wasn't sure voters were ready for that. And I wasn't running to break a barrier; I was running because I thought I was the most qualified to do the job."
Is it different in 2024, do you think?
WARREN: Look, the questions have already started. I can't tell you how many times I've already been asked, well, is it going to matter that she's a woman, that she's a person of color, and they're just kind of asking the whole, and some ugly remarks already about it.
But we have to remember. Vice President Harris is one of the most qualified people to run in decades. Look, she was a prosecutor, very effective, and both was out there to protect families, to protect women who had been abused. She became an Attorney General. She was in the middle of the fights to try to rescue homeowners, who had been cheated. She was a very effective senator. And now, as Vice President, has really taken on leadership roles. She is well-qualified.
I think what she has to do during this time, and I have no doubt she will, is just let people see who she is, what she fights for. And when people see that, they're going to see the Kamala Harris that I've known for a long time. And that is someone who's very principled, who's very unruffled, but who absolutely knows what she's fighting for, and is going to stay in that fight until she wins.
COLLINS: What do you think has been her biggest accomplishment, since she's been Vice President?
WARREN: Oh, I have to say, since the Dobbs opinion, the way that she has rallied women, and friends of women, also called men, around this country, on the issue of abortion, and just taken it home. First Vice President in history to visit an abortion clinic. Go get them.
She's someone who talks openly about things that were kind of challenging, for some people to talk about, but also to talk about it with--
COLLINS: Abortion was -- President Biden didn't even mention the word, abortion, in his State of the Union.
WARREN: That's right.
But Vice President Harris has, and she's talked about it, both with compassion, but also with a sense of what is right.
How can we be a country that half of America lost rights, because of an extremist Supreme Court, put in place by Donald Trump?
And we have to keep reminding people today. 30 percent of all women live in states that effectively ban abortion. If Donald Trump and J.D. Vance get control of the White House, it won't be 30 percent. It will be a 100 percent. It will be red states, purple states, blue states, everywhere, abortion will be banned.
[21:35:00]
And it is important to know that we can rely on President Kamala Harris, and if we can get Democrat majority, in the House and in the Senate, we can make Roe versus Wade law of the land again.
COLLINS: This is the first presidential election since Roe versus Wade was overturned. Do you think that could change the unwillingness to put a woman in the Oval Office before?
WARREN: I think what it has changed is the number of women, who have said, I've had enough. I have just had enough.
After the Dobbs opinion came down, you may remember that Kansas was headed to do a complete ban on abortion. Nobody was going to have any access.
And it was women, not women who had been longtime in politics, and had known how electoral process worked. It was women, who just stood up, and said, enough, we are going to change the law to reflect our values, not extremists', our values.
And there were a lot of people around the country, who said, whoa, you're going to start that in Kansas? Oh, my gosh, it will fail.
I remember talking to many of these women, early on. And they said, it's almost like we have gotten past the old politics, and everybody knew what they were supposed to say, and how it all lined up, and how they didn't have voices. They're past that now. And they say, my voice will count, my opinions count.
And when nearly 70 percent of America says they want Roe versus Wade as law of the land, and they sure as heck don't want an extremist Supreme Court making medical decisions for them?
COLLINS: Yes.
WARREN: I think that's a moment, when more people are going to show up, and say instead of Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, I want to see Kamala Harris and her partner in the White House.
COLLINS: You've mentioned J.D. Vance, several times. He's obviously in the Senate, serves with you. He's on the Senate Banking Committee. You two have some common ground actually--
WARREN: Sure. COLLINS: --when it comes to reining in credit card fees, or big banks, and what that looks like with claw-backs for their bonuses.
You once told Politico that he had been terrific to work with.
WARREN: He was. Look, I'll work with anyone, who's willing to get in there, and rein in the banks, particularly in their risk-taking. And he and I have co-sponsored a piece that would claw back the salaries of these CEOs that crashed these banks.
COLLINS: Yes.
WARREN: But that doesn't mean that I think he should be Vice President of the United States.
And I'll tell you what I'm troubled about. We'll start right there with abortion. He not only supports a nationwide abortion ban. He's more extreme than Donald Trump and the extremists. He doesn't think there should be any exception for rape or incest. Remember, he is from the state, Ohio, that had such tough abortion laws that the 10-year- old child, who had been raped and gotten pregnant, couldn't get medical care, in Ohio.
I'm also deeply concerned about his sense of what it means to be an American family. We live in a country, where lots of parents are out there working. And as a nation, we make investments, in roads and bridges, so people can go to work, and have broadband, so companies can thrive.
If we want mommas and daddies to be able to go to work, we need to make those investments in childcare, which is something that Kamala Harris supports.
J.D. Vance said that making investments, national investments, in childcare, is class warfare on normal people.
Normal people don't use childcare? And I -- it's like -- so, what is your vision of what tomorrow looks like? Not 1955. But what tomorrow looks like, for all the mommas and daddies, out there, who are trying to make a living, and trying to build a future for their children?
COLLINS: Before I let you go, I have to ask, what do you make of when Republicans call, criticize Harris, as a DEI hire? But J.D. Vance, who has much less experience in government, they don't say the same about him.
WARREN: Oh, are you asking me the double-standard question? Yes.
Look, Kamala Harris is enormously qualified to be President of the United States. We are so lucky that she is bringing our party together. She is ready to go toe-to-toe with Donald Trump.
And here's the scariest part to the Republicans. She can win on November 5th. They're going to say everything they can. But the reality is, that's what the American people are going to see. And that's what's going to pay off, come November 5th. COLLINS: Senator Warren, great to have you here, for your first appearance on THE SOURCE.
WARREN: Good to be here.
COLLINS: Thank you very much.
Up next, we have new developments in the search for Harris' running mate. We'll give you those, right after a quick break.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just here on THE SOURCE, a few moments ago, you heard from Democratic senator, Elizabeth Warren, and also, Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg, both making the case that abortion will be a driving issue for Democratic voters, one that they say Harris -- Vice President Harris is best-able to tackle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you think has been her biggest accomplishment, since she's been Vice President?
WARREN: Oh, I have to say, since the Dobbs opinion, the way that she has rallied women, and friends of women, also called men, around this country, on the issue of abortion, and just taken it home. First Vice President in history to visit an abortion clinic. Go get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Perspective now from our top political experts.
And Sherrilyn Ifill, I mean that answer, that's not something that Democrats would have said 20 years ago, or even touting.
SHERRILYN IFILL, VERNON JORDAN CHAIR IN CIVIL RIGHTS, HOWARD UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Yes.
COLLINS: Obviously, we live in very different times.
What did you make of her?
[21:45:00]
IFILL: Yes, the needle has moved. And Dobbs is a huge part of that.
It's really, at this point, fish or cut bait. And I think it's been energizing for Vice President Harris. I think we could -- we can see the difference in her, after the Dobbs decision. It's like she found her voice. She walked into that space. And women really found that she resonated with them that she was speaking the language we wanted to hear.
And so, I think that Senator Warren is absolutely right that that -- she also spoke about something that's true about Vice President Harris. That she can speak forcefully to an issue, like women's abortion rights. But she often figures out how to take that touch, like going to an abortion clinic. She feels very comfortable with the retail part of campaigning. And I think that's a touch we're going to have to see over the next four weeks as well.
COLLINS: And if that's one of her strongest issues, it's one of the toughest for Donald Trump, in the terms of taking credit for the Supreme Court, and the conservative majority, but also dealing with the ramifications.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And he -- there's so much video, of him, talking about how proud he is, of the way that those Supreme Court justices decided that.
IFILL: Yes.
NAVARRO: So, on the one hand, he takes credit. Then he goes to, in front of another audience, and he pretends he knows nothing about it. He's tried to play it too cute by half.
And I think, you know, I think Kamala Harris is so uniquely positioned. She tells this very touching story, about how she became a lawyer, how she became a prosecutor, because her childhood friend had been sexually assaulted. And so, she is both a prosecutor. But she also has that compassion that I think this issue requires, because we have seen so many horror stories.
We, as women, have seen so many horror stories come out, after Dobbs. It's week after week of women that have been made to undergo horrible conditions, carry babies to term without kidneys, without brains.
So, it requires both things. It requires the legal prosecution, and it requires heart. And she's been able to show both.
COLLINS: Yes.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: She brings that together, right?
She can say: Donald Trump and I both think some people belong in jail. I put them there, murderers, rapists, child abusers. Mr. Trump believes that women of America belong in jail. A 10-year-old girl in Ohio, who's a victim of incest, she should go to jail. A young mom in Texas, who could lose her life, and wanted that baby, but it was a troubled pregnancy, she -- Mr. Trump wants her in jail. So, you just have to decide America? What kind of criminal justice system you want. I put the child abusers and the murderers in prison. Mr. Trump wants to put the women of America in prison.
COLLINS: Doug Heye, what are your thoughts?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It sounds like the election's over. Kamala Harris having just been coronated the Democratic nominee. She's the next President. Election over. Let's all pack it up. The reality is, we all know this is going to be a very close election. There's a chord (ph) of the electorate that didn't want a Trump-Biden matchup. We don't know if they really are excited about a Trump-Kamala Harris matchup either.
And we saw economic news today that said that the Biden-Harris administration, and she still has to own some of that, have real problems, when it comes to voters who're saying, I can't keep up with what things cost still. I have to work harder. I have to work more hours. That's a problem.
Yes, abortion is a problem for Republicans. We've seen that at the ballot box. This is not game over. There's Democratic euphoria. There's been a whole lot of money raised. Of course. Of course, Donald Trump is able to do that as well, even when he gets arrested, indicted, convicted and all of that.
But this is going to be very close election and a very long one. Even though it's only four months from now, it's a long time. And there's so much that we know is going to happen, even if we don't know what that is yet.
COLLINS: Yes, we've just -- there are a 100 days still left in this race.
IFILL: Yes.
COLLINS: And some Democrats, I've talked to, said it's a sugar-high, right now. But they do want to see what Harris looks like on the trail, day in, day out, on the economy, on immigration, whether she can separate herself from President Biden, where he was maybe polling lower with voters.
IFILL: There's no way around it. Kamala Harris is going to have to campaign. Doesn't matter whether it's four weeks. Doesn't matter whether it's eight weeks. She's going to have to campaign.
And you're absolutely right. There's a lot of excitement in the air, right now. And that excitement will tamp down. Whether that excitement will tamp down in a way that makes people excited about Trump is another matter.
And I think Trump actually -- this is he's -- he's in a -- in a tough spot, especially because of the vice-presidential nominee that he picked, who really adds nothing to the ticket. He is not charismatic. He's even more dogmatic on women's issues than former President Trump is. So, he's got a hard way to go.
But Kamala Harris has got to campaign. Because there are people, who know her, from when she ran in 2020, and have their own views about that. There are people, who kind of know her as Vice President.
And there are people, who don't know her, who really haven't been paying attention. And she's got to introduce herself to those people. There's no way around it. You can't just say, I'm sure you know me. And so, she's got a lot of work to do. And that's where this enthusiasm really is important. Because all of the surrogates, the people in the towns and the cities, they've got to invite her in. They've got to usher her into the right space. But at the end of the day, she's got to deliver.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Well, and Trump said today, he doesn't regret picking J.D. Vance as--
BEGALA: That means he does. What are the betting odds that he dumps J.D.?
IFILL: Ooh.
BEGALA: You watch -- hide and watch. This is not a guy, who's into long relationships. Mr. Trump, I don't know how many campaign managers he's had, how many chiefs of staff at the White House. I'm -- if I were J.D., I wouldn't be buying any green bananas.
HEYE: To Paul's point. Donald Trump is not somebody who gives favors. He only takes them away, one at a time. And we can say, ask Reince Priebus, ask Mike Pence, ask anybody who's ever dealt with him.
But let's keep in mind. Yes, there's a real sugar-high, for Kamala Harris, right now. The media that I've read on her, hats off to her team, and people who've marched along.
And not just the major newspaper. In Vogue, in Washingtonian, in New York Magazine, everywhere. She's the greatest chef in the world. She knows her wines better than any presidential candidate in the world. Everything she does is a -- capital-A amazing, different capital-A than Nancy Mace's, by the way.
But the reality is--
COLLINS: And Sommier (ph) is a President.
HEYE: The reality is we still don't actually know if Kamala Harris is a good candidate or not. History tells us she wasn't a great candidate, when she ran in 2019. She didn't make it to 2020. Her Senate campaign, she ran against Congress -- former Congresswoman Sanchez, who wasn't a serious candidate.
Kamala Harris has to prove herself on the national stage. Now, she may do it. And she may be stronger now than she was.
COLLINS: Yes, she's had four years as Vice President.
HEYE: Sure. But past performance doesn't always tell us future earnings. But it tells us what history is. She wasn't a great candidate when she ran for president. She didn't make it onto a primary ballot.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEYE: That tells us something.
COLLINS: I have to get your thoughts though--
NAVARRO: I'll tell you what though. She was never -- she was not dumped as Vice President by Joe Biden. And nobody ever talked about her doing that.
And I don't know what it is that's happening. But go on social media. Go look at how Trump supporters are reacting to Kamala Harris. They are shooketh.
IFILL: They are shook.
NAVARRO: They are--
COLLINS: Shooketh?
NAVARRO: --rattled. They are -- they don't know what to do with themselves. They're spewing out all sorts of stupid attacks and conspiracy theories. They're calling her a DEI hire. I mean, they're doing all sorts of stupid things that I think are showing just how nervous they are.
Donald Trump is backing out of a debate. Why? Why? If he is so confident that he can take on Kamala Harris, why is he backing out?
(CROSSTALK)
HEYE: Careful. She has a record. Use it.
COLLINS: Don't worry guys. We have over 100 days to talk about this, coming forward. We'll have you all back. Thank you for being here.
On another front, but an important update, Rudy Giuliani was just seeking bankruptcy protection, to avoid paying millions that he owes to creditors. I asked him about this, on the floor of the Republican convention, after I spotted him flying first class to Milwaukee. Now, we know who paid for that ticket.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Last week, as reporters and politicos were headed to Milwaukee, for the Republican convention, someone who was seated in first class, in front of me, on my flight, caught my eye. It was none other than Rudy Giuliani.
The reason I noticed this is because Giuliani, as we have been reporting here on CNN, had just had his bankruptcy case tossed out of court, and he owes over $150 million to creditors, including those two former Georgia election workers that he repeatedly defamed. Yet, he was flying in first class.
Well, today, we learned who bankrolled that trip. It was the My Pillow Guy, CEO, Mike Lindell. Now, this matters because the judge, who was overseeing that case, found that Giuliani was not being transparent about his assets. And that opened the door for creditors to be able to seize Giuliani's multi-million-dollar assets, including his homes in New York and Florida.
I saw him, later, on the floor of the Republican convention, and asked him about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mr. Giuliani, do you have any reaction? I haven't seen anything from you yet. On your bankruptcy case being dismissed?
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: No. I had to have it dismissed, because the judge was preventing me from appealing the very unfair $145 million judgment.
I'm only in bankruptcy for one reason, because of that ridiculous verdict that in which I--
COLLINS: That found you defamed the election workers in Georgia? They--
GIULIANI: Yes, in which I didn't receive a trial.
COLLINS: They now have the ability to seize your assets. Are you worried that they are going to seize your apart -- I spoke to their attorney. She said they're going to try to seize everything that you have.
GIULIANI: Well, of course they are. They're all paid for by Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, as I pushed back there, there is no evidence that President Biden is paying for their attorneys. That's a baseless accusation.
My colleague, Sara Murray, is here, and has been digging into all things Giuliani, luckily.
I mean, the fact that we were wondering how he could afford a first- class flight, given what he has been saying inside of court. How did you find out that Mike Lindell had to do with this?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, there was a filing today, and Mike Lindell attested to paying for the flights and the hotels.
And then, I called Mike Lindell, just to make sure that that was the case. And he thought this was an absurd question. He said, Rudy Giuliani is one of my hosts now.
Mike Lindell has a right-wing online broadcast. And so, Rudy Giuliani is apparently a host there. He says, it's not like Giuliani is living the life of luxury. He says, he flies all of his hosts first-class. And of course, he needed Rudy Giuliani to be at the Republican convention, to report for Mike Lindell's -- and host from Mike Lindell's right-wing network. So apparently, that's what Rudy Giuliani was doing there. Apparently, he's also getting paid some kind of salary, although Lindell wouldn't tell me how much, by Lindell.
COLLINS: You know what was amazing, is the other thing that he said to me was, when we were talking on the floor was, he said he had no regrets about how he treated Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. Despite the fact that we know it upended their lives. But also, given, he owes them over $150 million, or about $150 million, and hasn't given them anything so far.
[22:00:00]
MURRAY: I know. It's pretty incredible. And he needs to try to find a way out of these bankruptcy proceedings. That's what he's trying to do. He owes about $350,000 to a forensic accountant. And so, that's why they're trying to get some insight into his finances, to be able to settle that bill, get him out of the bankruptcy proceedings.
And a judge has already warned there are a lot of bad things that can happen, if he doesn't find a way to settle that bill. So, we'll see what happens.
COLLINS: Sara Murray, thank you for talking to Mike Lindell, for all of us.
MURRAY: Of course. Happy to do it.
COLLINS: Always appreciate it.
Thank you all so much for joining us, on this very busy hour.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
