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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

New Audio: Vance Admits Biden-Harris Swap Was A "Sucker Punch"; Trump Defends J.D. Vance's "Childless Cat Ladies" Comments; Texts About Suspect 90 Minutes Before Trump Shooting: "I Did See Him With A Range Finder Looking Towards Stage". Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 29, 2024 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: This is exactly what Crooks was. And one of the things you see in the plan, you see that -- you see them trying to lay out what the plans were, for dealing with this contingency, Anderson. And it appears all of that fell apart.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.

Jonathan Wackrow, appreciative it. Evan Perez, as well. Thanks so much.

That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Breaking news from THE SOURCE tonight.

A political sucker punch, J.D. Vance's candid admission in a private fundraiser, about facing Kamala Harris, instead of Joe Biden in 2024. Listen for yourself to his assessment of the race.

As CNN is learning more tonight about why a big name just pulled out of the veepstakes.

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

With 99 days left until Election Day, and just 49 of those until early voting begins, there's breaking news on multiple fronts, tonight.

And in the Vice President's search of her vice president, potentially, North Carolina governor, Roy Cooper, has just confirmed that he has removed himself from consideration, saying in a statement that it wasn't the right time, for him to be on a national ticket.

Now, he had been near the top of the VP watchlist. So this is notable. And we'll have more in a moment from our sources about why he withdrew.

But there's also breaking news on the other VP front tonight. And that's a recording that was obtained by The Washington Post that reveals Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance, telling a private audience something very different than what we've been hearing from the Trump campaign, publicly, about Vice President Harris. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All of us were hit with a little bit of a political sucker punch.

The bad news is that Kamala Harris does not have the same baggage as Joe Biden, because whatever we might say, Kamala Harris is a lot younger. And Kamala Harris is obviously not struggling in the same ways that Joe Biden did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Candid comments there. And they may just be an accurate assessment of how much Biden dropping out of the race, has shaken things up truly. But compare what you heard, from Senator Vance there, to what former President Donald Trump said publicly, just a few moments ago on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think she's a worst candidate than him. She's far more radical-left. She is younger. I mean, she's 60-years-old. A lot of people -- I didn't realize she was 60. I thought she was a little younger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining me now is the reporter, who broke this story, Isaac Arnsdorf, who is the National Political Reporter for The Washington Post.

And it's great to have you, Isaac.

I mean, this is the first time we're actually getting to listen to what Senator Vance said, during that fundraiser. You obtained this audio. You reported on it earlier. But now tonight, we're hearing it for the first time.

And it's just notable, given Trump was on Fox, tonight, just a few moments ago, saying that he actually thinks she's a worst candidate.

What do you make of what you heard, in this audio, from a private fundraiser, compared to what we're hearing from the Trump campaign, publicly, about her viability?

ISAAC ARNSDORF, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: That's exactly right, Kaitlan.

I mean, it's not exactly an earth -shattering insight that Harris, in just a short week, since taking over the Democratic ticket, has raised a ton of money, energized a lot of Democrats, brought out a lot of new volunteers, and has been able to make speeches and draw crowds, and land attacks in ways that Biden was struggling to do. I mean, we can all see that for ourselves. The thing is that the Trump campaign had been publicly, including Vance himself, had been publicly taking this line of, nothing to see here, nothing has changed. And that's different than the message he had for these donors, behind closed doors.

COLLINS: Yes. And I mean, I guess you're right, it makes sense. Because essentially, they're saying, they want to act like everything's fine, and that it hasn't changed much.

Obviously, it has changed. We all know that. And people do concede that.

But the question is, what does this attack look like on Harris? How are they going to go after her, since they do have a new opponent.

And he also talked about that on this audio that you obtained. I want everyone to listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: And we wonder how is the world caught on fire, how is there a new war in seemingly every continent in the world. And it's because Kamala and the Democrats lied about Joe Biden.

That leads into the good news because no person in the United States of America owns the disastrous Harris-Biden agenda more than his own Vice President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: What's interesting is, in part of this audio is he -- they didn't seem to have concerns about shaping perception of her, because everyone has a fully-formed opinion on President Biden, on former President Trump. He thinks, from that audio, it sounds like, that it's not that case with the Vice President here.

ARNSDORF: Right. There's another part in the remarks, where he basically says, love him or hate him, basically everyone already knew Joe Biden and Donald Trump, and most people had their minds made up.

[21:05:00]

And Harris is just a lot less well-known, a lot less well-defined. And so, it's a race between both campaigns to try to shape Americans' impressions of her, almost like a reintroduction.

And the Democrats are out with their story of how they're trying to position her, as a prosecutor and as an optimistic voice for the future.

And you're seeing the Trump campaign kind of try a lot of different things, right now. And in the -- Senator Vance was talking about that, in the clip we just heard, some of the ways they're trying to pin some of Biden's record on her, make her responsible for that, accuse her of covering up for Biden's health. And then, you also heard in the clip from former President Trump, talking about some attacks that are specific to Harris, making her out to be a San Francisco liberal.

So, it's kind of a grab bag at this point still there. They are seeing what kind of message they can drive that's going to connect.

COLLINS: Yes, they're still coalescing around that line of attack.

And I do want to note that the Trump-Vance campaign put out a statement, tonight, on this audio. And they said, "Poll after poll shows President Trump leading Kamala Harris, as voters become aware of her weak, failed and dangerously liberal agenda. Her far-left ideas are even more radioactive than Joe Biden, particularly in the key swing states that will decide this election, like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin."

Wanted to make sure we noted what their response to this was.

Isaac Arnsdorf, great reporting. Thank you for joining us on that.

ARNSDORF: Thanks, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: And I'm joined now by the Democratic governor of Massachusetts, Maura Healey.

And Governor, it's great to have you here.

Because on this new audio that you hear, that The Washington Post and Isaac obtained, of Senator Vance saying that it was a sucker punch, for Biden to drop out, and lamenting that Harris doesn't have the same baggage that Republicans believed Biden did.

Do you agree with J.D. Vance that Harris does have less baggage than Biden does?

GOV. MAURA HEALEY (D-MA): Well, clearly, J.D. Vance is scared, and Donald Trump is scared. I mean, Donald Trump's gone in the direction of bailing on debates. J.D. Vance is now squirming, and making the comments that he's making.

And they should be scared, because Kamala Harris is tough, smart, compassionate. I saw her. I worked with her, as attorney general. And they have every reason to be running scared, at this point. She's an excellent candidate. She'll be an excellent President.

Look what she's done this week, Kaitlan. I mean, uniting the Democratic Party, over $200 million in grassroots fundraising, record numbers of voters registered. And I think more than anything, just this palpable enthusiasm for her candidacy.

So, no wonder that they are running scared, and saying all sorts of things, and crazy things, and cringy things, like the former President just said about her age. It's just par for the course of these guys.

And I think women, across the country, when they hear someone like J.D. Vance say what he said, when they listen to Donald Trump? We know these guys, you know? And this is just classic misogyny, classic sexism. And it's something that a lot of us have dealt with, heard about, heard from, our whole lives.

COLLINS: Well, and you just mentioned--

HEALEY: But Kamala Harris will know how to handle that.

COLLINS: You just mentioned that about your working with her as an attorney general. You obviously were also an attorney general, for those who don't know. And she's been leaning into that background a lot.

And some of the candidates that she's looking out, for her running mate, also served as attorneys general. Governor Shapiro, Governor Beshear, that's of Pennsylvania and Kentucky respectively.

Do you believe that that is the person, with that experience, who is best suited to serve with her?

HEALEY: Well, I'll say a couple things.

First of all, all great, great people. And the nice thing is there's such a deep bench, in the Democratic Party. And she would be served well, by any of them, and any of the folks who are being considered.

I also think that because she's been an attorney general, her job was to stand up, and fight for ordinary Americans, everyday people, right? Fighting against people trying to take their homes, or banks trying to rip them off, or insurance companies that refuse to pay. And I saw that up close and personal, working with her, through those years.

And I think that that's the appeal right now, of someone like Kamala Harris, is that she gets it. Donald Trump's going to cut taxes for the rich, and take care of himself. But Kamala Harris is about making sure that people have lower prescription drug costs, making sure that women have access to the health care that they need, and make sure that we're growing an economy that will work for middle Americans. It's as simple as that.

And, look, she's made the proverbial case in the past. She knows how to do that. Again, no wonder that Trump's too cowardly to stand up on a debate stage with her, and no wonder that J.D. Vance is saying the cringy things that he's saying.

COLLINS: Well, I should note Trump is saying tonight that he does believe he'll debate her. We'll see if that actually happens.

[21:10:00]

But on this VP search, another former Attorney General, Governor Roy Cooper of North Carolina, he's withdrawn tonight. What do you make of the fact that he's taking his name out of the running for this?

HEALEY: Well, I haven't talked to Governor Cooper. I have great respect for Governor Cooper. And way back, it was Governor Cooper, and it was then-A.G. Cooper, and A.G. Harris, who actually led us AGs in the National Mortgage Settlement during the subprime crisis. So, they've had a close working relationship. I know that will continue.

Again, great regard for Governor Cooper. And I know he is doing all he can to bring North Carolina home. We've got an important governor's race on, down there, working to elect Josh Stein, and obviously working hard to elect Kamala Harris.

COLLINS: You actually saw Vice President Harris, the day before Biden dropped out, last Saturday. Did anything memorable, from that interaction, or from that day standout to you?

HEALEY: Well, looking back, it's pretty amazing. Because literally, it was 12, 18 hours before President Biden announced that he was no longer going to continue.

And I remember bringing back a young girl, an 11-year-old girl, I brought her backstage, to meet the Vice President before she took to the stage. And that little girl felt like she was the only person in the room.

Kamala Harris could not have been warmer. She asked her what she was doing that week. And little girl said she'd been at basketball camp.

And then the VP asked her, what position she played. And little girl said to her, well, I don't know. I like every position. I don't like defense.

And the VP joked whether -- she put her arm around her, gave her a big hug, and she said, you know, I like offense too.

And it was just this moment of such warmth. It's who Kamala Harris is. It's who I knew her to be as Attorney General. She cares a lot about people. She cares a lot about this country. She is going to be an excellent president.

COLLINS: Let me ask you about the major changes that the President announced today, President Biden. He's calling for to the Supreme Court. He wants 18-year term limits, a binding code of conduct, a constitutional amendment, saying that presidents don't have criminal immunity after that massive Supreme Court ruling for former President Donald Trump.

House Speaker, Mike Johnson, said today that that it's dead on arrival.

Do you acknowledge that he has a point that it is this proposal that Biden wants to see, when you look at the realistic nature of Capitol Hill, and how that body is made up right now that it is dead on arrival?

HEALEY: Well, I'm not going to listen to Speaker Johnson, about the Supreme Court.

As a lawyer, as a former Attorney General, I support what President Biden is doing. Because this court, particularly through the appointments of Donald Trump, and going back further, has lost credibility, has lost the trust and the confidence of the American people.

I mean, all that's been talked about, in terms of ethics violations, this does such harm, and undermines such a foundational underpinning of our democracy, which is our judiciary and our court system. So, I applaud President Biden for coming forward and taking action. I think it's pretty funny and comical to be lectured at, by the likes of Speaker Johnson, on this one, to be honest with you.

I don't know what will happen. But substantively, given the court and its stature, or diminishing stature right now, it's the right thing to do. And it's the right thing to look at. And absolutely, all of us are held to certain codes of ethical conduct. It should be no different for the highest court of the land.

COLLINS: Governor Maura Healey, great to have you. Thank you for joining tonight.

HEALEY: Great to be with you. Thanks.

COLLINS: And as she mentioned, all of the energy, in the Democratic Party, around Vice President Harris. There was another call tonight. White Dudes for Harris. That is happening, as of this moment. Someone who was on that call is going to join me.

Also, our CNN's exclusive interview, tonight, with J.D. Vance's former classmate, as Trump is weighing in on the backlash that his running mate has been facing over those comments from 2021, about "Childless cat ladies."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:18:24]

COLLINS: In a new interview, tonight, Donald Trump is defending his running mate, J.D. Vance, including offering this explanation, for the backlash that Vance has been facing, over his "Childless cat ladies" comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: All he said is he does like -- I mean, for him, he likes family. I think a lot of people like family. And sometimes, it doesn't work out. And you know why it does -- you don't meet the right person. Or you don't meet any person. But you're just as good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: There's a lot to dissect there.

And for the record, as we played the full context, on Friday, what Vance said, at the time, in these remarks, was that parents should, quote, "Get a bigger say" in how our democracy functions.

I want to bring in some of our sharpest political minds, on all of this and more.

Jamal Simmons is the former communications director for Vice President Harris.

Former New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio.

And former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.

And Alyssa, I'd like to start with you. What did you make of Trump's defense of what Vance said?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They may need to try to clean this up for another week.

Listen, the fact that it took J.D. Vance, a couple of tries, on Megyn Kelly's show, on Trey Gowdy's show, trying to clean this up. Now, the former President attempting to.

They're missing the whole plot here. J.D. Vance apologized to cats, not to women. What they did is they made women, who don't have kids feel like you're saying they're less valuable in society, forgetting the fact that many women deal with infertility, with miscarriages, or just chose not to have children, and that shouldn't have any weight on their value in society.

This is a very real issue. I've got to say, I've never heard so much from lifelong Republican girlfriends, who are saying, this is offensive to us. If you're a woman of my age, we're thinking of these issues quite a bit.

[21:20:00]

And the fact that it also took J.D. Vance about a week, to get onto mainstream media, to get on to Fox News, was doing kind of these side Charlie Kirk and kind of things, shows that I'm not sure they even think he's ready for primetime. I would have been on network television, clarifying my stance. And I don't know that there is a stance you could clarify for the mainstream.

COLLINS: What do you -- could you -- you know Trump. What did you make of what he thinks of this? Could you tell anything from that comment?

FARAH GRIFFIN: I think he knows his base loves families. So, leaning into like, this is just somebody, who says he loves families, was probably the best defense he could come up with. I don't know that there is a good one, other than to just own that you made a mistake, which Donald Trump does never like people to do.

COLLINS: So, in this interview, tonight, Trump was also talking about Harris, and just what this prospect of facing her is going to look like.

I want you to listen to something he said about her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: She is younger. I mean, she's 60-years-old. A lot of people -- I didn't realize she was 60. I thought she was a little younger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: She's 59, I should note. But she does turn 60, in October.

But what do you make of how Trump's talking about this? He's also talking about, saying she doesn't do her laugh anymore, something that Republicans have mocked her for. But what do you make of him, what he's saying about Harris, versus what you heard Vance saying in that audio tonight?

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I mean, that's a nervous guy right there. I mean, it's very -- I'm saying this, from a political perspective, but also from a human perspective. You could see, he was stumbling around a little bit, trying to figure out how to talk about the fact that he's now the older candidate that some people are going to question his abilities.

And he had such a wonderful time, and he was making sport of his attacks on Joe Biden, I thought was tasteless. But that's what he was doing.

You could almost figure the footsteps behind him a bit, in the way he was talking that now he's up against a younger, more dynamic candidate. And I don't think they have a game plan for this. I don't think they ever anticipated this moment.

And we're seeing something unprecedented. I think we are literally seeing history, because I don't think American politics has ever shifted, in so few days, so profoundly, in our lifetimes.

COLLINS: Yes. Are you surprised that now that we are, it's been a week now, that it's been clear she was going to be the candidate, that they haven't landed on a single line of attack against her?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and I am very surprised, they really didn't have this gamed out beforehand. But they really must have been thinking there's no way the Democrats are going to do this. This is unprecedented.

But as the Mayor just said, we've been doing unprecedented, a lot this summer.

DE BLASIO: Right.

SIMMONS: Right?

I got to believe, as a communications person, the one thing that Trump has to hate is now you've got not just Vance versus Harris, or Vance versus whoever the -- a name nominee is going to be for VP. It's Vance versus Vance.

It's always the worst place to be in a communications scenario, because you're just running Vance's quotes, again -- in the past, against him now. And now, no presidential candidate I have ever met in my life, and I've met a few of them, want to spend time talking about the problems of their vice president, or the problems of their staff.

COLLINS: Well and--

SIMMONS: That is not a good place to be.

COLLINS: And Trump always will zero in on something of his opponent. And the laugh has been a big thing. I mean, we just heard Senator John Kennedy, from Louisiana, today, trying to talk about it and criticizing Harris for terms like that.

SIMMONS: God forbid--

COLLINS: Alyssa, I want you--

SIMMONS: God forbid women laugh.

DE BLASIO: Right.

SIMMONS: They did the same thing to Hillary Clinton. When she ran for president, they talked about her laugh. What about her position on guns or abortion?

COLLINS: That's kind of, I think, the questions from Republicans are. I mean, Laura Ingraham, in this interview, tonight, even said I don't--

FARAH GRIFFIN: She was trying to throw him a bone.

COLLINS: --I don't have a problem with people, when they laugh.

Let's just let everyone listen to that answer, from Trump, about the laugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She got rid of the laugh, I noticed. I haven't seen that crazy laugh that she gets. She's crazy. That laugh, that's the laugh of a crazy person. But I noticed that she's not using that laugh anymore. Somebody convinced her, don't laugh -- just don't laugh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FARAH GRIFFIN: So--

COLLINS: I think she's probably still laughing.

FARAH GRIFFIN: She's still going to laugh.

Kamala Harris has confounded Trump-world. The Hillary Clinton playbook doesn't work.

Hillary Clinton was a defined character, before Donald Trump stepped on the political scene. There were a lot of negatives there to run up. They were also similar in age. This is a younger, attractive, well-spoken woman, who just has this pop culture sort of vibe to her that Donald Trump kind of felt like he owned that. When it was him against Biden, it's like, oh, I've kind of got the memes and the TikTok on my side. She's dominating him in those spaces.

And she's also out-organizing him. That is a huge thing. Like, as we're speaking, there's these White men for Kamala Harris, and all these calls that have been happening. They don't have that operation that she does. And that's organic. That's actually just genuine excitement.

I'm personally, as a Republican, surprised by how phenomenal she's been, since she launched. She was not going to be, who I'd say was, the most competitive against Trump. And she's proved to absolutely have confounded him.

COLLINS: The call, I believe, was White Dudes for Harris.

DE BLASIO: Right.

SIMMONS: Yes.

COLLINS: There was a -- there is a White dude--

DE BLASIO: Yes.

COLLINS: --at this table, who was on that call.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Why are you not home?

DE BLASIO: I was on the call.

COLLINS: So, do tell us what happened on the call, tonight.

DE BLASIO: Thank you for using the proper title, as in dude.

It was beautiful. It was -- it was really earnest. It was--

SIMMONS: You found your people, your tribe?

DE BLASIO: I found my people, it's like.

No, because what it was to me was, there was a certain joy in the participation. I mean, when Jeff Bridges came on, I have to say, every dude in America had to salute that guy. But seriously--

COLLINS: The ultimate White dude.

DE BLASIO: The ultimate White dude.

[21:25:00]

But the notion that it's fun, it's positive, it's warm. It's like we're doing something because we believe in it. It's communal. And I agree with Alyssa. That's a -- that's a very powerful place, when the Democrats get that mojo again, and are representing our values in a cultural way, not just a political way, not just with words. Something special starts to happen. We saw that, of course with Barack Obama.

And that has got to be scaring the Trump-world profoundly, because they can't go there. They just don't have the ability to go there.

COLLINS: Well that's what raised $3 million--

SIMMONS: You got the--

COLLINS: --on that call tonight.

SIMMONS: It was over $3 million the last call--

COLLINS: So far, as of 09:20.

SIMMONS: --the last, right.

Listen, there's something that's pent-up in America right now. And I really think it is about this anti-MAGA business.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

SIMMONS: People just really don't want to go back to the chaos that we had the last time. And I think Project 2025, and how that's lit a fire all over the internet, in terms of people being nervous about what ideas might be coming up and showing up.

There is something going on. Now, it's about Kamala Harris, little bit. I'm not going to say it's not. But it's also about something else. And I think it's about Donald Trump, and just not wanting to get back to that place.

COLLINS: What do you make of Roy Cooper dropping out of the VP-stakes, I mean, the veepstakes. I mean, he is someone that was seen, he has an impressive record, as Attorney General. He once ran, unopposed, I believe, for it even. And now he's term-limited as governor. So, he could be looking for a new job. But he's taking his name out of the running.

SIMMONS: That could be local concerns, or it could be family concerns. You never know what it is about somebody that wants to get out. Usually, there's something that most of us probably don't know, sitting here at the table. But people get out for a reason.

COLLINS: Alyssa, Trump said, tonight, he will probably end up debating Harris. He didn't commit to this specific one that he had already agreed to, the ABC one, after he basically pulled out of it last week.

Do you think we'd actually see a Trump-Harris debate in the end?

FARAH GRIFFIN: I'm calling, today, I think he does it. I think the fact that she's goading him into it. She once again said I'm going to be there, you can show up. He can't not show up, without looking incredibly weak. And there's nothing Trump hates more than looking weak. So, I think he's going to have to show up and do it.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

SIMMONS: He thought for a reason he was going to get out of courtroom with all these prosecutors. He may face the worst prosecutor he ever had to face on the biggest courtroom stage in America.

DE BLASIO: And I agree, he hates looking weak. But I also would say, he made a real big practice, of skipping debates, when he thought it was strategically in his favor.

He's going into that with a massive disadvantage. She's going to have the energy and the momentum. She's a great debater. She's a great prosecutor. And she just has to say convicted felon, 20 times, to win that debate.

I'm not going to be so surprised, if they wait, and they wait, and they wait, and they don't do it in the end.

FARAH GRIFFIN: We'll make a wager now.

DE BLASIO: Fair.

FARAH GRIFFIN: See you in September.

COLLINS: All right. We'll let everyone make--

SIMMONS: I'm with him.

COLLINS: Everyone will be placing their bets, during the commercial break. But don't worry, they're going to be sticking around.

Because also tonight, we're looking at Vice President Harris, as she has yet to lay out a full platform, for what her administration is going to look like. We're a week in. But this is something that even Democrats want to see. Not the first time she's run for president. But what did her policies look like then? How have they changed now? We'll take a look ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:32:26]

COLLINS: One week into her second presidential campaign, Vice President Harris is facing questions about policy stances that she took, during her first run for the White House.

Donald Trump seizing on it, tonight, in a new interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In politics, when you start off saying something, that's where you are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Of course, you have to smile at that one, given Trump and his many flip-flops, on his own policies and people.

But of course, that is not stopping Republicans, from digging up Harris' policy positions, from that race, four years ago. That was the time when Harris went further than some of her opponents, her Democratic opponents, including President Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's no question, I'm in favor of banning fracking.

I'm supporting the Green New Deal.

We've got to critically reexamine ICE, and its role and the way that it is being administered.

Defund the Police. The issue behind it is that we need to reimagine how we are creating safety.

The status quo thinking has been you get more safety by putting more cops on the street. Well, that's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: As Vice President to Biden, Harris has since shifted away, from several of those positions. But Trump's campaign has made clear they do plan to try to use them, against her, in this race.

My panel of political minds are back here with me. Along with veteran journalist, David Gura, who is a Bloomberg correspondent, and also the host of Bloomberg's daily podcast, "The Big Take."

I mean, it's not just fracking, as you heard her there, which they are now saying that she's not in favor of banning fracking anymore. Also, single-payer health care, there are other positions, a mandatory buyback for assault weapons.

What do you make of -- you know, she said this four years ago running in a Democratic primary. Now, those positions could be used against her.

DAVID GURA, BLOOMBERG CORRESPONDENT: So, this is like a messy moment in any campaign. And you'll have more experience with that than I.

But you have an opponent, trying to look at the historical record, and find what might stick, elevate those policy perceptions -- policy positions, or political statements that might have been in a different context than they are today.

I mean, looking at that montage that you just showed, it mirrors almost exactly the ad that we're seeing in the McCormick-Casey race in Pennsylvania, which, yes, has some misstatements in it, and some creative editing, but is I think, objectively a very effective advertisement, kind of painting her in that way.

So, yes, this is going to come up. I think it comes up all the time. And I don't think that you can fault the candidate, who during a presidential primary, was trying to differentiate herself from a panoply of other candidates, and try to make herself appeal in a different way to other candidates.

I think that this will shake out. But like, we're in a moment where in a very compressed campaign, she is, in many ways, still pretty inchoate when it comes to policy positions. And we'll see sort of how that flushes out in the weeks ahead.

COLLINS: Well, and you mentioned Pennsylvania, and that race, the Senate race, the happenings is there. I mean, fracking is one of the most sensitive issues, in one of the most important states in 2024.

[21:35:00]

So, what does that look like? If you're a political strategist, right now, working on Harris' campaign, how do you handle that?

SIMMONS: Well the first thing is we're talking about things she said actually five years ago, because she never made it to 2020. So, this was 2019 when she--

COLLINS: I'm sure she will appreciate you noting that.

SIMMONS: Hey, listen. I work for CNN.

But she said these things five years ago. And -- but she's had a record since then, right? So, the record since then, over the last course of two, or three or four years, in the administration, has been one that I think she's more answerable to.

Now, she's been partnered to the President on a bunch of these things. They asked her questions about crime and Defund the Police. She's not for that. They just spent $30 billion in a Safer America Plan, out of the Biden administration, that funds police.

So, you can talk about -- not you, but the media, the Republicans, can talk about what happened, in the four or five years ago. I think she'll point to what she's done, over the last three or four years, when she's actually been governing.

COLLINS: But they're clearly trying to define her, for voters, and how voters will perceive this.

DE BLASIO: Yes. And look, I was in that race at that time in 2019. And she was actually moderating, even in the course of that timeframe. So, I think she's very clear about the fact that she has to deal with a bigger context now.

But I think the point Jamal's making is crucial. She has the entire Biden record, as her pivot. This is what she has been doing. But what I think she needs to do next is describe her vision that is distinct from Joe Biden's. Even though it's been an incredible week for her, unprecedented, she still needs to make that separation, and she still needs to fill in that blank.

And actually, that's a freedom, she has now, to create her own vision and say, this is where I want to go. And it can be compelling to people. I actually think that's what folks are going to focus on. They're not going to focus on five years ago, in a debate.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well--

SIMMONS: Well, I think what you might see is some ticks to the left, or some ticks to the right. You won't see any wholesale like a hard right angles, or hard left angles. I think that's what I'm hearing from people inside, is she's really running on the Biden-Harris administration record, and then where do we go from here, into the fall (ph).

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well--

COLLINS: Well, and it's pretty funny, I mean, given Trump is saying that. I laughed at that tonight, because you have seen Trump obviously change positions a lot, on many issues, serious ones as well, including his own VP pick, who once said that -- questioned whether or not he was America's Hitler. Trump obviously has been OK with him shifting his position on him.

FARAH GRIFFIN: That does make it a little harder to say, Kamala Harris can't evolve on positions.

But listen, the Dave McCormick ad in Pennsylvania, what you played, that should be the Republican playbook to define Kamala Harris. But instead, they're leaning into DEI -- she's a DEI hire, sexist attacks, and kind of just falling over themselves not being able to land sort of the plane of how they're defining her.

I'm kind of stunned by it, because her race in 2019 was disastrous. She didn't make it far, because she ticked too far-left. And I think she's able to argue, that wasn't authentic to her. Now having been Vice President for all Americans, this is who she's going to be.

And that actually could work with voters, to have somebody, who acknowledges evolution, and growth on policies, as opposed to Donald Trump, who never admits fault, or that he's changed a position, when he frequently does.

COLLINS: Well, and David, when I was thinking about this conversation today. I mean, Vance himself. We've been talking about his 2021 comments. But other comments that he's made. Now, he talks about police. He calls them our protectors.

But we heard from his former law school friend, Sofia Nelson, who was on with Erin Burnett, earlier, and was just sharing what Vance said privately, to Sofia, versus what he -- we now hear from him. Here's part of that.

This is -- we have actually the quote itself. And this is around the Black Lives Matter movement, in the wake of the 2014 shooting of Michael Brown. And this is what Vance said to Sofia Nelson. Quote, "I hate the police. Given the number of negative experiences I've had in the past few years, I can't imagine what a Black guy goes through."

I wonder how Republican voters, independent voters, see comments like that, when they are looking at what he's saying now, versus what he said previously.

GURA: Look, you were talking about this earlier. But this is a nominee for the vice presidency, who has a difficult historical record to deal with. And he's tried to blame a lot of that on the media, and how he was framed by the media. He was somebody, who was writing of his own accord, for The Times and The Atlantic, and putting a lot of these thoughts onto paper himself.

So, I don't know what Republicans would make of that. But he's laid a lot of that out there. And the contradiction is laid pretty bare, I think, as we listen to him talk now, versus what you've seen him write and say in the past.

Sure, we can say that he's evolved as well. But there's kind of a different attitude toward that evolution to what you're speaking of, which is you can kind of embrace that, and say that you've grown and evolved as a person.

There's a bit of more, like a more retrograde thing, I think, with J.D. Vance, which is he's moved away from a lot of the things that he said in the past, which were more, dare I say, progressive and open- minded than they are today.

SIMMONS: Listen, I think we're all going to talk about this a lot. Because the one thing we do know about J.D. Vance is back in 2014, 2016, he was the kind of person that even people like me liked, because I thought, here's a guy, who is fighting for the working- class, White working-class, but he's not demonizing Black people and Latinos. He's actually saying like there's a -- there are other forces that are at work here.

And now, we find that he's completely changed all of his positions. And so, that makes the American people wonder, is he just sort of hollow inside?

One, he's kind of a boring speaker. I called him J.D. Boring during the -- during the Republican convention. And Trump did not look happy watching him give that speech.

[21:40:00]

But then, you can't quite trust anything else that he has to say. I think that's the kind of thing that lasts in the course of an election.

COLLINS: But can Republicans make that argument about Harris, if she's changed her position, on things like fracking? I mean, it seems like this could be used against J.D. Vance and also against Harris, these arguments.

SIMMONS: Again -- again--

COLLINS: From Republicans.

SIMMONS: --these aren't hard pivots. Right? This is like, I had a policy position that sort of changed. This is--

COLLINS: Banning fracking is--

SIMMONS: This guy is Hitler. Maybe. And now, he ought to be President of the United States. That's a pretty big jump. That's not just--

FARAH GRIFFIN: And you noted--

SIMMONS: --I used to spend this amount of money.

(CROSSTALK)

DE BLASIO: Harris--

SIMMONS: To how I wouldn't spend that amount.

FARAH GRIFFIN: You noted their TikTok reversal (ph) too on social media. But Donald Trump completely flipped on TikTok. That was pretty stunning.

DE BLASIO: That Harris needs -- look, she needs an offense. The best defense is a good offense. We need to hear her vision. That's the difference-maker. And that will take up a lot of the energy. That'll take up a lot of the focus.

SIMMONS: Yes.

COLLINS: Reversals abound.

Everyone, thank you so much.

Up next , when we have just learned when Donald Trump is going to be sitting down, with the FBI, for that interview, about his attempted assassination.

As there are new messages, tonight, from law enforcement, texting about a suspicious young man, 90 minutes before that shooting, including this one, "I did see him with a range finder looking towards stage."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:45:40]

COLLINS: Donald Trump confirming tonight that he is going to be meeting with the FBI, on Thursday, for what's known commonly as a victim interview.

It's a routine, but voluntary part of the Bureau's criminal investigations. And it comes as investigators are seeking to get Trump's perspective, on what he saw, the day of that attempted assassination. This is all coming, as we are getting newly-released text messages that show that not only did law enforcement spot, the attempted, the would-be assassin, more than 90 minutes before he opened fire. They also lost track of him.

At 05:14 p.m. on that day, an officer actually took photos, of the suspected gunman. 20 minutes later, he sent the images, to a group chat, and wrote, "Kid [leaning] around building we are in... I did see him with a range finder looking towards stage. FYI. If you" want to "notify" Secret Service "snipers to look out. I lost sight of him."

It was at 06:11 p.m. when those first shots were fired.

Joining me tonight is CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, and the former Washington, D.C. Police Chief, Charles Ramsey.

And Chief Ramsey, just when you look at this timeline, and you hear that message of the officer saying that they lost track of the gunman, what do you make of that?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, clearly, there are a lot of issues that took place, that particular day.

I mean, to put in writing that you not only saw a suspicious person, which is not all that unusual, to see people who you believe could be suspicious. But nobody challenged him.

The fact that now he's saying he had a range finder? I mean, back in my day, we used to call that a clue that maybe there's something that you really do need to take seriously. I mean, why would you need a range finder, unless you plan on doing something, like take a shot at an individual?

I mean, this is a former President of the United States. The security has to be tight. You can't say with a 100 percent certainty that you can always protect every single individual, a public figure. There are a lot of factors that go into that. But you sure can make it a lot more difficult. And it was way too easy, for this individual, to take a shot at the former President. And so, there has to be an in-depth investigation.

They'll establish a timeline, with the drone that was seen flying, a couple hours before.

COLLINS: Yes.

RAMSEY: This information that some kind of chat. There's a lot of pieces that have to be put together.

COLLINS: Well, and that local sniper, who was the one that spotted the gunman, 90 minutes before this shooting, talked to ABC. Listen to what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY NICOL, BEAVER COUNTY SWAT TEAM: He was looking up and down the building, and just wandering around, and it just seemed out of place.

We had a text group between the local snipers that were on the scene. I had sent those pictures out to that group, and advised them of what I noticed, and what I'd seen.

I assumed that there would be somebody coming out to, you know, speak with this individual or, you know, find out what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Why didn't that happen? When someone flags this? And you hear him say, well, I assumed someone would be following up on this. Why do you think that didn't happen?

RAMSEY: Good question. I mean, it should happen. Those are the kinds of things that really led to the breakdown that, fortunately, did not lead to the assassination of a former President.

Somebody should have been there, to be able to get their hands on this person, check him out, find out what's going on. That did not happen. And whether that was a federal, or a local police officer, that should have done that. All that stuff should have been part of the operational plan.

If you see something suspicious, who's going to take the position, to be able to go, and find this individual, and actually find out exactly what it is he's doing, who he is, and what it is that he's doing. That didn't happen.

COLLINS: Yes.

Can we talk about what this interview that Trump has confirmed, is going to happen, on Thursday, the victim interview with the FBI. What -- I know that's standard. But I mean, nothing really about this is standard.

RAMSEY: Yes.

COLLINS: What does that actually look like? What do they ask him?

RAMSEY: Well, they're going to ask him a variety of questions. But I doubt if he'd be able to give them a lot of information. I mean, he's on the stage, he's delivering a speech at the rally. He's not paying attention to that sort of thing.

[21:50:00]

Now, it would be interesting to know whether or not at any point in time, someone from the Secret Service said, listen, you know, we've got a suspicious individual that we're trying to locate, to check out. We don't think it's a major threat. Obviously, they didn't think it was a major threat because they let him get on the stage. Did anybody say anything to him at all?

Other than that, I don't know what he could really provide, because he was focused on the crowd. He was delivering a speech. But it is standard. And it's something that they need to do, because you never know.

COLLINS: Yes. And luckily, he turned his head at that moment.

Chief Charles Ramsey, thank you for breaking it down with us.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

COLLINS: Coming up, here tonight, a provocative article asks how to buy a president, delving into the opportunity for potential corruption, within Trump's Truth Social stock. And what the former first lady Melania Trump did, when they told her what they were naming the company.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:55:35]

COLLINS: Tonight, former President Donald Trump is on a truth-tear, posting about Vice President Harris, oil prices, sharing campaign videos, reposting clips from his allies in the media.

For Trump, it pays to post, or at least it pays to own the platform, where he posts. The former President holds more than 100 million shares of Trump Media & Technology Group, worth about $3.4 billion when the markets closed just a few hours ago.

My next guest writes in a new piece, out today, that Trump's media company is an unprecedented opportunity for corruption, should he win back the White House.

New York Magazine contributor, David Freedlander, is here to explain, and has this exhaustive in-depth piece on this.

And you're essentially arguing that this company is, in a way, to buy the president. What do you mean by that?

DAVID FREEDLANDER, CONTRIBUTOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Well, it could be. I mean, this is a publicly-traded company that has no real business. I mean, there's really nothing on Truth Social. Somebody told me it has roughly the revenue of like a mid-sized fast-food franchise.

So, it's an opportunity, for people to just buy shares in this company. All sorts of people can do it, and influence the President in whatever -- whatever way they want.

COLLINS: Yes. OK. Well, if it's the size of a medium fast-food chain.

FREEDLANDER: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean, how -- how do you explain to people then why -- how it's worth so much, in the value that it -- that it holds for Donald Trump, at least.

FREEDLANDER: Because people are investing in it, because they're investing in Donald Trump. It's kind of like buying -- if you have all the red MAGA hats you could ever wear, you buy shares in Donald Trump. And that's essentially what it is. It's just a kind of fandom as a stock, essentially.

COLLINS: So, they're not investing because they think this is a great company, and a great model. It's simply because of the person whose name is on it.

FREEDLANDER: Whose name is on it, and who may become the leader of the free world, in a couple of months, by the time, next year, at least.

COLLINS: Yes.

FREEDLANDER: So, yes.

COLLINS: When you report on this group of kind of ragtag people, who are around the launch of it. It includes former "Apprentice" contestants, the My Pillow Guy, Mike Lindell.

But who are the major investors, who could actually have an influence on Trump, if he's elected again, but via Truth Social?

FREEDLANDER: Well, I mean, a lot of it is just, it's sort of fans of Trump, and it's people who know that fans of Trump will -- are going to invest in this company. And so, it's people that are kind of making that bet for the most part. And then, it could be really anyone. I mean, it could be foreign oligarchs, like corrupt businessmen. Anybody could invest in for any reason, just to kind of get in with Donald Trump.

COLLINS: And there would essentially be no holds barred on that.

FREEDLANDER: No. I mean, in fact, it's even like, people thought like the Trump Hotel and Mar-a-Lago were opportunities for corruption. This is much worse, in a lot of ways. I mean, it's much more below the radar, for one thing.

COLLINS: Well, it also would be one of the first times we've seen a president in that position.

I mean, because that was something, a big issue that we talked about, when he went to the White House, the first time, is what he would do, would he divest, what would that look like? We saw what actually happened there.

I mean, this would be a different kind of terrain in that area.

FREEDLANDER: Right. I mean, he didn't really do any of that, right? I mean, if you -- if you wanted to, like, influence Donald Trump, you knew to stay at the hotel. You knew to join Mar-a-Lago.

The scale is so much greater here. I mean, the possibility of buying shares is kind of endless. There's only so many hotel rooms, only so many Mar-a-Lago memberships. Anybody could buy as much of this as they want to.

COLLINS: Yes, that's a really good point. I mean, we saw how they had to use Secret Service would have had to stay at his properties.

FREEDLANDER: Sure.

COLLINS: It was a whole thing with Vice President Pence.

The other thing that was interesting was the shares spiked 30 percent, after the assassination attempt, but have since kind of dropped. And one thing we've talked about a lot here is how volatile the value of this company is. It seems like it hinges on the new cycle almost.

FREEDLANDER: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's people are betting on Donald Trump being the president, right? There's no other reason to invest in Truth Social, is the funny thing about it. I mean, you wouldn't do it, to make money, because it's not really making any money. So, you do invest it, depending on how if Trump's up in the polls. If he moved down the polls, you short it, et cetera, et cetera.

COLLINS: What did you hear when you were reporting on this piece, about the name, and how -- I mean, I think now we've all just, it's Truth Social, we all accepted as fact. But when it -- when it first came out, I think people were very curious about the name.

What did you hear about what was happening behind-the-scenes of this?

FREEDLANDER: Originally, they wanted to call it Virt, or something like that, as a sort of short for virtuous. That didn't quite catch on.

COLLINS: Like V-I-R-T?

FREEDLANDER: Yes, something like that.

Trump actually came up with the name Truth. And then they sort of quickly Googled it, to see if there was any website called Truth Social. There wasn't.

When they ran it by Melania Trump, she burst out laughing, and said -- turned to the people that suggested, and said: Truth? This guy?

COLLINS: She was shocked that he would name it Truth Social.

FREEDLANDER: Yes, yes, according to my reporting.

COLLINS: David Freedlander.

FREEDLANDER: To people in there (ph).

COLLINS: It's a fascinating report. Everyone should read it.

FREEDLANDER: Thank you.

COLLINS: Thank you for joining us tonight.

And thank you all so much for joining us here, on THE SOURCE.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.