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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Falsely Claims Harris "Happened To Turn Black"; Sen. Booker: Trump Says Outrageous Things To "Divide" America; NYT: Iran's Supreme Leader Orders Direct Attack On Israel. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 31, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Iran's public reaction, what does it tell us about what might come next?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it tells us that there is going to be a strong response. It is likely to be a direct response. It may well be in conjunction with Hezbollah. Previously, we saw what happened, back in April, 300 projectiles--
COOPER: Yes.
WARD: --fired towards Israel. This could look different. It could look even more intense.
COOPER: Clarissa Ward, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Donald Trump pulling out the old birther playbook, smearing Vice President Harris, by questioning her identity as a Black woman, and falsely accusing her of misleading voters.
The reaction is coming in fast and furious. Senators Mark Kelly, Cory Booker and Tom Cotton are all here to join me.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
With pressure building on Donald Trump, as he is facing a new and potentially formidable opponent, the former President is turning back to his old playbook, back from 2011, reviving that strategy of his infamous birther lie, about former President Barack Obama.
But fast-forward to now, and 2024. And today, in Chicago, in a room full of Black journalists, Trump questioned Vice President Harris' identity, saying falsely that she, quote, "Happened to turn Black" just a few years ago.
Moments ago, we heard the Vice President respond, for the first time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump spoke at the annual meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists.
And it was the same old show.
The divisiveness and the disrespect.
And let me just say. The American people deserve better. The American people deserve better.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: The American people deserve a leader who tells the truth. A leader who does not respond with hostility and anger, when confronted with the facts. We deserve a leader, who understands that our differences do not divide us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That's how she's responding.
Trump, for his part, not backing down from those comments, actually has been leaning in, ever since he left that room.
But let us take you back to how it all began today, at that convention of the National Association of Black Journalists, in Chicago, when Donald Trump took the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL SCOTT, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Some of your own supporters, including Republicans on Capitol Hill, have labeled Vice President Kamala Harris, who is the first Black and Asian American woman to serve as Vice President, be on a major party ticket, as a DEI hire.
Is that acceptable language to you? And will you tell those Republicans and those supporters to stop it?
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How do you -- how do you define DEI? Go ahead. How do you define it?
SCOTT: Diversity, Equity, Inclusion.
TRUMP: OK. Yes. Go ahead. Is that what your definition? Give me--
SCOTT: That is -- that is literally in the words.
TRUMP: Give me a definition then. Would you give me a definition of that?
SCOTT: DEI.
TRUMP: Give me a definition of that. SCOTT: Sir, I'm asking you a question.
TRUMP: No, no, you have to define it.
SCOTT: A very direct question.
TRUMP: Define the -- define it for me, if you will.
SCOTT: I just defined it, sir. Do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is only on the ticket because she is a Black woman?
TRUMP: Well, I can say no, I think it's maybe a little bit different. So, I've known her a long time, indirectly, not directly very much. And she was always of Indian heritage. And she was only promoting Indian heritage.
I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So, I don't know. Is she Indian? Or is she Black?
SCOTT: She has always identified as a Black woman.
TRUMP: But you know what? I respect either one.
SCOTT: She went to a historically Black college.
TRUMP: I respect either one. But she obviously doesn't. Because she was Indian all the way. And then, all of a sudden, she made a turn, and she went -- she became a Black person.
SCOTT: Just to be clear, sir. Do you believe that she is--
TRUMP: And I think -- I think somebody should look into that too, when you ask -- continue in a very hostile nasty tone.
SCOTT: It's a direct question, sir. Do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is a DEI hire?
TRUMP: I -- I really don't know.
SCOTT: As some Republicans have said?
TRUMP: I mean, I really don't know. Could be. Could be. There are some.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was well into the event. But really, the moment he took the stage, things went off the rails, where Trump called that moderator, sitting there, Rachel Scott of ABC News, nasty, rude, and more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT: I want to start by addressing the elephant in the room, sir. A lot of people did not think, it was appropriate, for you to be here today.
You have pushed false claims about some of your rivals, from Nikki Haley, to former President Barack Obama, saying that they were not born in the United States, which is not true.
You have told four congresswomen of color, who were American citizens, to go back to where they came from.
[21:05:00]
You have used words like 'animal' and 'rabid' to describe Black district attorneys.
You have attacked Black journalists, calling them a loser, saying the questions that they ask are, quote, 'stupid' and 'racist.'
You've had dinner with a White supremacist at your Mar-a-Lago resort.
So, my question, sir, now that you are asking Black supporters to vote for you, why should Black voters trust you after you have used language like that?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, I don't think I've ever been asked a question so -- in such a horrible manner, a first question.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You don't even say, hello, how are you?
Are you with ABC? Because I think they're a fake news network, a terrible network.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER & CHEERS)
TRUMP: And I think it's disgraceful that I came here, in good spirit.
I love the Black population of this country. I've done so much for the Black population of this country.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Including employment, Including Opportunity Zones with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, which is one of the greatest programs ever for Black workers and Black entrepreneurs. I've done so much.
And you know when I say this, historically Black colleges and universities were out of money. They were stone-cold broke.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And I saved them, and I gave them long-term financing. And nobody else was doing it.
I think it's a very rude introduction. I don't know--
SCOTT: Sir-- TRUMP: --exactly why you would do something like that.
And let me go a step further. I was invited here. And I was told my opponent, whether it was Biden or Kamala, I was told my opponent was going to be here. It turned out my opponent isn't here. You invited me under false pretense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And joining me now is the Democratic senator from Arizona, and potential vice presidential pick for Vice President Harris, Mark Kelly.
It's great to have you here, Senator. I know you have had a very busy day.
But I just I do want to know your reaction, when you heard what Donald Trump said on stage, in Chicago, today, questioning Vice President Harris' heritage?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, Kaitlan, my first reaction was, you know, this is the reaction of a desperate and scared old man.
And it's very obvious to me, watching him, and just what I've seen over the last week, while she's been, across the country, just kicking his butt, that he's afraid, that he's probably afraid to debate her. He's certainly afraid to lose an election to her in November. And he's afraid about his own future. So, I'm not surprised to see it.
And I understand, you know, what he's up against. I mean, he's up against an experienced prosecutor, somebody who served as a D.A. and an Attorney General and the Senate, now the Vice President, very successfully. You put Kamala Harris' record up to Donald Trump, and there's no comparison. And the contrast is just -- can't be more significant.
COLLINS: So, you think this is just a sign that he's essentially spooked by her momentum, and what we've seen over the last week and a half since she's been at the top of the ticket?
KELLY: Yes, it's probably that. I mean, I think it is. It's that. I mean, she's been across the country. She's got great momentum. She's a fantastic, historic candidate.
And who is he? He's a convicted felon. He's got a sentencing hearing, I think, in September. He's been indicted for other felonies.
She's going to take this country forward. Donald Trump wants to drag us back to his prior administration, which was a bad deal for Americans. So, I think it's pretty obvious what's going on here.
COLLINS: Is it clear to you that this was a racist attack by former President Donald Trump?
KELLY: Yes, I mean, it's overtly racist. Yes.
COLLINS: And do you expect to see more of that over the next 97 days until the election?
KELLY: Donald Trump has shown the American people who he is. He's been doing this now for a decade. If you're paying attention, before that, he was doing it before he was on the national stage as well. So, of course, he's going to continue to do it. That's all he can do. This is all he has in his playbook. And it's, to be honest, it's sad. I mean, it's really sad to watch.
I think the good news for the American people is Kamala Harris is going to beat him in a debate, and is going to beat him on November 5th, and is going to be our next president. That's the good news for the American people.
COLLINS: How do you think the Harris campaign should handle something like what we saw today?
KELLY: Well, I think they should, call him out on what he said. I mean, it's, I've never seen a president, or a former President, or a United States senator, say anything like this.
[21:10:00]
And it is -- we've seen a lot of sad days for our country, when Donald Trump was president, and while he's been a candidate. This is another one. And I think the American people need to listen to what he says.
COLLINS: The line of defense we're seeing, tonight, from J.D. Vance, his running mate, is that Trump was brave enough to go in there, and take questions, from Black reporters at a conference. And he called Vice President Harris, a coward.
What's your response to that?
KELLY: Kamala Harris has been across the country, for the last week, meeting with the American people. And she's available, accessible.
Where's Donald Trump? I mean, he spends -- you know, I don't know how long that interview lasts. My understanding was, they had to get him off the stage, because his campaign was afraid of the next horrible thing that he was going to say. So, that ended pretty quickly.
And Kamala Harris is the candidate of the future for this country. She wants to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, make child care affordable, reduce the cost of health care for the American people.
What does Donald Trump want to do? I mean, he made it pretty clear, he wants more tax cuts for billionaires and the biggest corporations. If he was President, again, he would weaken our alliances. And he wants to take away fundamental rights for women, especially, especially women.
So, I'm not surprised with what he said. But the consequences of four more years of Donald Trump is, more loss of reproductive rights, including things like birth control, and IVF.
Kaitlan, I've got two daughters and a granddaughter. And I really worry about the future of this country, with Donald Trump continuing to have any sort of power. Now, that's not going to happen, because Kamala Harris is a great candidate. She's a great leader. She's going to be the future President of the United States.
COLLINS: Well, and of course, Senator, you're under consideration to be potentially her vice presidential pick, and you're on that shortlist. We understand that your team has received vetting materials, as part of this process.
How far have your conversations gone, with the Harris team, for this?
KELLY: Well, Kaitlan, I'm not going to comment on that. And we're not going to get into that, especially today. This is not about me.
This is about Donald Trump, and what a sad figure he has become. Sad and desperate. And Kaitlan, we know, guys like this. I mean, I've seen them before. And just put him in the category of a desperate convicted felon, who was lashing out.
COLLINS: Do you believe that you'd be able to help make that argument, the one that you just made here, on a broader national stage, should you be her selection?
KELLY: Well, I mean, I'm happy to talk about Donald Trump and Kamala Harris all day. I mean, it's a very easy thing to talk about. It's probably the easiest topic I've dealt with, while in the United States Senate, because the contrast is just so clear. And it's, I think, it's clear that to the American people as well.
COLLINS: Senator Mark Kelly, thank you for joining us, tonight, on this.
KELLY: Thank you for having me on, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Want to get reaction, here in studio now.
I'm joined by former New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio.
And CNN Political Commentator, and Spectrum News host, Errol Louis joins me.
I mean, I'll start with you, Mr. Mayor, just on the political lens of how Vice President Harris handled this tonight. What did you make of what she said about this?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I think she handled it right. I mean, look, first of all, when your opponent does something so outrageous, so inappropriate, so obviously overtly and appeal to race, in the worst sense? Just let it be. I think she showed sobriety, clarity, a vision of a better America, and let him sort of stew in his own juices, as it were.
I do have to say, Mark Kelly, tag-lined there, the way he summarized it, a desperate convicted felon, who's lashing out. I mean, I think that's a beautiful, powerful summary, and kind of points to the desperation we're clearly seeing in Trump-world, right now. Something's gone off the rails.
They just were not ready for a reasonably popular candidate. They were used to Joe Biden, who unfortunately had fallen into unpopularity. They had originally ran against Hillary Clinton, who unfortunately was dealing with a lot of challenges. Here's a brand-new day. And they don't know what to do.
COLLINS: Errol, just watching that today, I think there was a moment, where all newsrooms were kind of glued to the screen.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
COLLINS: What did you make of that?
LOUIS: It was like a flashback to 2015. This is Donald Trump pulling out some of the old tricks, from when he first came onto the national scene, where he would say something completely outrageous, bursting the norms, going outside the normal guardrails of political discussion. And that became the story. And that's what I think is going on here.
[21:15:00]
Whatever else he is, Donald Trump is not in the news cycle. And if he hadn't said something crazy and outrageous today, we wouldn't be talking about him, right now.
We know that there are, what, 97 days until the election. If you put in early voting, which starts in Arizona, by the way, in 70 days, we're at the stage, where every single news cycle counts. And you can't win the news cycle, if you're not in the news cycle.
So, I read this as Donald Trump just saying anything, to try and get himself back into play, because the last week has been horrific for him. All of the excitement, hundreds of thousands of people in these Zoom calls, $200 million raised for his opponent, he can't touch any of that.
And all of what they did, which was a very successful Republican National Convention, is basically forgotten. It's yesterday's news. And so, he's trying to get back into it. And he's doing it the way that he knows best, which is to say something inflammatory, absurd, crazy, non-factual, and try and get back into the game.
COLLINS: Look at what's at the Trump rally, tonight, that he had after this event, where -- that he flew to. They have this screen up. And it's to show these headlines, identifying Harris as Indian-American in headlines.
I mean, she can be both, and she is, and she has talked about that. And I think we've talked about that collectively, when she made history, by becoming Vice President.
But what do you make of the fact of how they are leaning into this, at a rally, tonight? DE BLASIO: Well, first of all to pick up on Errol's point, I think the worst thing in the world is happening to Donald Trump, humanly, emotionally, which is he's being ignored. This is the one thing that flummoxes him the most.
And I think when you think about that kind of language, it's just obviously patently false to say she was not being authentically Black. I mean, that's stunning in a campaign that just a week or two ago, was saying they actually hope to win Black voters, particularly Black males over to their cause. Well--
COLLINS: And his numbers had been going up.
DE BLASIO: Yes. And his numbers--
COLLINS: With some minority groups.
DE BLASIO: Unfortunate.
And let's be honest, as we saw on the challenges Joe Biden was facing, we did see some drift in the Black and Latino community. That was an area of real concern.
But if you had that hope, why on earth would you attack an authentically Black woman, and challenge her Blackness? That just says to the community, that you're not only out of touch, you're absolutely insensitive and uncaring about the community. He's like driving his own nail into his own heart here. It makes no sense.
COLLINS: He also--
LOUIS: And--
COLLINS: Go ahead.
LOUIS: And it's worth pointing out. In her book, she talks about how her Indian-American mother knew that she was raising two Black girls.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
LOUIS: I mean, this is not something that's never come up before. So, I'm not sure where they expect this to go. Anybody who actually looked at this, has heard from her, for years now, that she is a Black candidate. She is a Black woman. She has -- also has Indian-American heritage. No big deal.
DE BLASIO: It's also a comment on America, how people are perceived. Look, I raised two Black children. That's how America perceives them. They were both. But they were perceived as Black.
Kamala Harris, throughout her career, especially the fact that she went to Howard, and she identified so strongly with the community. How on earth, of all the things you could say, how could you say she didn't participate and show her connection to the Black community all the time? She obviously did.
COLLINS: That's a great point there.
Mayor de Blasio, Errol Louis, great to have you both here. Thank you for that.
DE BLASIO: Thanks.
COLLINS: But don't worry. We have more reaction coming up next to this.
We're going to speak to Democratic senator, Cory Booker, and Republican senator, Tom Cotton. Get both of their takes on what happened today, on that stage.
Plus, Trump, tonight, trying to calm a storm over his vice presidential pick, but evading a key question about J.D. Vance.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:23:01]
COLLINS: Tonight, Vice President Kamala Harris, responding to former President Donald Trump's attacks, on her racial identity, saying it's quote, the "Same old show" from him.
And our source tonight is New Jersey Democratic senator, Cory Booker.
Senator, great to have you here.
You heard the Vice President's response, to what Donald Trump said today. He was on Truth Social, after that event, saying that he "CRUSHED IT," in all-capital letters.
What was your reaction to hearing him say that Vice President Harris turned Black?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I think this is such a familiar playbook for Donald Trump, to try to distract and divide our nation.
And he does not want to talk about the issues in this campaign that most affect American families. Whether it is their ability to control their own bodies, whether it is lowering the cost of prescription drugs, all the things that Kamala Harris has built a record on, and is planning to do as president. He doesn't want to talk about that.
Remember, Donald Trump has this playbook. He talks about birtherism, to throw race and racial tropes out there, to outrage Democrats and want them to only talk about that, in response, and to give dog whistles to certain American groups, and really divide this country along racial lines.
We need a leader that's going to unite us, that's going to start talking about the issues that matter, not distract us with all this.
Donald Trump did it, when he was not being talked about in the press, he talked about the Central Park Five. Donald Trump has done it, when he feels his back against the wall, he says outrageous things that distract America, or divide us against each other.
Enough is enough. I'm not falling for it. I know the headlines. I looked at them, before I sat here, on major newspapers, it's all about his comments. But again, this is a successful distraction.
You know what happened today? The United Auto Workers, a major working-class union, the union of my grandfather, that pulled my family out of poverty and into the middle-class, they endorsed Kamala Harris.
We're not talking about the reason why working people, working unions are supporting Kamala Harris.
[21:25:00]
We're talking about this nonsense that's just divisive, and reflects their obsession with race, why they talk about CRT or DEI, all these acronyms that I kind of have to often, like with CRT, look up to see exactly what they're talking about. I'm done responding to Donald Trump's madness. I want to focus on the issues for America.
COLLINS: Well, you noted that it is a playbook, though. I mean, obviously, he rode birtherism into political relevance, not that long ago.
But in 2020, I remember, when he was questioning whether or not Harris was eligible, to serve on the ticket, which obviously she was. He questioned Obama's birthplace, which was Hawaii.
But I wonder what you think voters think of that in 2024?
BOOKER: I think there's an exhaustion. And I've talked to Republican pollsters, and Democratic pollsters. Americans really have real concerns. And they want this nonsense, this divisiveness, this tribalism, to stop. They're looking for people that are going to bring us together, to focus on solving problems.
And I think that what Donald Trump is underestimating is the more that he reminds people, of the way he governed, by throwing outrageous sensationary -- sensational, really just over-the-top comments out there, into the public sphere.
What we need from presidential leaders, what we need from congressional leaders, what we need from each other, is stop doubling down on differences, or appealing to the extremes of our country. Let's start talking about us, being Team America, again, joining together, across the lines that divide us, affirming the ties that bind us, and get things done.
COLLINS: In a gaggle with reporters, after all of this happened, Trump's pick for VP, J.D. Vance, who was also mentioned on that stage today, he responded to what Trump was saying, about her turning Black, and questioning her identity.
And he said, quote, "I thought it was hysterical. I think he pointed out the fundamental chameleon-like nature of Kamala Harris. And you saw guys yesterday she was in Georgia, and she put on a southern accent for a Georgia audience. She grew up in Vancouver. What the hell is going on here? She is not who she pretends to be."
What's your response to Senator Vance?
BOOKER: Yes, I think what we say about others, is more of a reflection of who we are than who we're talking about.
I think that the leaders that I'm looking for in both parties, and I know them across the aisle, in the Senate, are people that don't talk about people, don't denigrate or degrade individuals. But talk about ideas, talk about policy, talk about what they're going to do.
What we're seeing, right now, is a former President and his vice presidential pick, seeming to want the debate in this 2024 election, to be about people, about who can demean and degrade others, who can divide us and not unite us. Enough of talking in this way. We need leaders that are going to begin to talk about practical solutions, to the challenges that are facing Americans.
This is exhausting. But this election is brand-new. And all they've been able to say about Kamala, all they've been able to say about the Vice President, is attacking her on racial lines, gender lines, whether somebody has children or not. These things are nonsense.
Let's get back to talking about the issues that matter. A family is going to decide, right now, who's supporting paid family leave? Who's supporting prenatal care? Who's going to make sure my family has health insurance? Who's going to make sure that Social Security is there, when I'm ready to retire? Who's going to make sure that my family has somebody that's going to fight for them?
Not be a person that's going to simply pick their American, this week, who are they going to degrade, who are they going to denigrate, who are they going to put down, who are they going to insult. Enough of that in our country. We really need to turn this page, and begin to look to the future, and how we get there together.
COLLINS: Senator Cory Booker, thank you for your time tonight.
BOOKER: Thank you so much.
COLLINS: Much more ahead. We are going to go to the other side of the political aisle. Republican senator, Tom Cotton, who served with VP Harris, when she was in the Senate, will join me live, next.
Plus, Trump's way of defending his vice presidential pick, as he is facing heat, for his past remarks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:33:33]
COLLINS: Tonight, former President Donald Trump is defending himself, after suggesting that the Vice President, Harris, is using her racial identity, as a political advantage, in an interview, before the National Association of Black Journalists, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So, I don't know. Is she Indian? Or is she Black?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In addition to that, questioning the race of his opponent, Trump also declined to say one way or another, whether his vice presidential pick was ready to do the job on day one.
I'm joined, tonight, by Republican senator, Tom Cotton, of Arkansas.
And Senator, it's great to have you here.
As I noted, a second ago, you've worked alongside Vice President Harris, when she was in the Senate. Donald Trump is standing by his comments, tonight. In your view, are those comments defensible, Senator?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Kaitlan, of course.
First off, it's refreshing to see a presidential candidate, who's willing to go in front of the media. Something that Donald Trump knew would be a tough interview. It turned out to be a hostile adversarial interview. But he's been doing that for nine years.
Kamala Harris, meanwhile, has been hiding out for the 10 days that she's been a presidential nominee. Before then, she used to do interviews every five days or so. But now, she hasn't faced any media at all. I guess she thinks she can hide out for a 100 days until this election.
[21:35:00]
More fundamentally, the issue isn't what race Kamala Harris identifies as. It's the fact that she identifies as a San Francisco liberal. She has a long record, not just as Vice President, of being Joe Biden's border czar, standing by the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal, but running for president herself.
She said she was going to take away your health insurance on the job, while she was going to give health insurance to illegal aliens, and that we'd have a lot more of them, because she promised that she would decriminalize illegal immigration.
She cast the deciding votes, as Vice President, in the Senate, for the trillions of dollars of spending that has unleashed inflation on families that make it harder for them make ends meet.
Kamala Harris is a dangerous San Francisco liberal. And that's what really matters to Americans.
COLLINS: Yes, I didn't hear Donald Trump bring up any of her policy positions, today, or stances, when he was on that stage.
But your argument is that just because she hasn't done an interview, since she became the top of the ticket that it's OK to question what her race is?
COTTON: Well, Kaitlan, if you didn't hear Donald Trump talking about her positions, and his record, then you didn't watch the interview. It went on for more than 30 minutes. The vast majority of it was--
COLLINS: I did watch the interview, Senator.
COTTON: --was Donald Trump talking -- the vast majority of it, Kaitlan, was Donald Trump talking about his record, contrasting it to the Biden-Harris record, of higher inflation, and wide open borders, and war and chaos around the world.
And pointing out that she has said things, like she wants to eliminate the immigration police, and that she believes that illegal immigration should be decriminalized, and she wants to confiscate private firearms. These are all indisputable things on her record, Kaitlan. There's videotape of them.
Have you shown that videotape, in the last 10 days, since she became the presidential nominee, for the Democratic Party?
COLLINS: Yes, Senator. Senator, we have. We have.
COTTON: When she promises to rip away health insurance?
COLLINS: We have talked about her past positions, and the reversals of those, and we've delved into all of that, because that's actually what voters care about.
But when your party's nominee is on stage, telling a panel of three Black women that the first Black woman to serve as Vice President, hasn't always identified as Black. How does that help your party win elections?
COTTON: Well, Donald Trump said that what matters is that she identifies as a dangerous San Francisco liberal. It's not what race she identifies as. What she identifies politically. What's going to make a difference?
COLLINS: He solely focused on race in that comment, Senator.
COTTON: Kaitlan, the interview was more than 30 minutes long, which is 30 minutes longer than Kamala Harris has had an interview, with anyone, since she became the presidential nominee.
The vast majority of the interview was talking about Kamala Harris' dangerous record, on our wide open border, on higher taxes, on taking away health insurance on the job, and giving health insurance to illegal aliens.
The vast majority of that interview was contrasting the Biden-Harris record, and Harris' record from the first time she ran for President, to the Trump-era record. That's a contrast that Donald Trump will win, every day of the week.
COLLINS: I know you don't like her policies. And you talk about -- you call her the San Francisco liberal. I saw you saying that with Jake Tapper, the other day.
But that was not Donald Trump's main point today, when he was asked about your Republican colleagues on the Hill, who refer to her as a DEI hire. He was asked if he believes that she's only on the ticket because she's a Black woman. And then, he said that she doesn't always claim to be Black, which is not true.
But does anything that she has or hasn't said about her heritage have anything to do with her qualifications to be in the Oval Office?
COTTON: Well, no, Kaitlan, that's not what President Trump said. He said he didn't even know what Rachel Scott meant by DEI hire. And he had no idea why Joe Biden hired her.
What really matters is whether the American people want to hire her, given her record. And I promise you, if you think things have been bad, for the last four years, under Joe Biden, the worst is yet to come, if Kamala Harris is the President.
COLLINS: I just want to quote his words to you, Senator.
He said, I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So, I don't know. Is she Indian? Or is she Black?
You can defend those comments, tonight?
COTTON: And he also said either -- either is fine, both is fine. He loves African-Americans. He loves Indian-Americans. He loves all Americans.
The point is that we don't know where she stands politically, because she spent her entire life as a dangerous San Francisco liberal. And now, in the last 10 days, she's tried to flip-flop on every single position.
Well, I should say she hasn't tried to flip-flop, because she's sending out anonymous campaign aides, to say that she no longer holds views that she held, when she ran for president, in her own right.
When is she going to come on Kaitlan Collins' show, or Jake Tapper's show, or go on 60 Minutes, or have an unscripted press conference, and answer to the American people, where she stands on the issues that matter to them?
On whether or not they can pay the bills on July 31st, at the end of the month? Whether or not they're going to be able to pay them next month? Whether or not we're going to have another 10 million illegal aliens in our country--
COLLINS: But Senator?
COTTON: --under a Kamala Harris presidency.
COLLINS: We have had that conversation about her policy views.
But how does her changing her views on her policy justify having the presumptive -- the Republican nominee questioning her race? How does that -- does that increase or decrease your party's chances of winning in November?
[21:40:00]
COTTON: Well, Kaitlan, you haven't had that conversation with Kamala Harris, because she has been hiding out for the last 10 days.
COLLINS: I want to have this conversation with you, Senator.
COTTON: Just like Joe Biden hid out before her.
I'm -- and my point is when are you, and the rest of the media, going to demand that Kamala Harris come out, and answer questions, in an unscripted format, about where she stands for this country, as opposed to continuing to focus on what Donald Trump said today.
Four years ago, Joe Biden said, if you don't vote for him, you ain't Black. Could you imagine a more insulting comment? Joe Biden is presuming to judge the political views of--
COLLINS: OK. You -- OK.
COTTON: --one-eighth of our fellow citizens based on their skin cover -- skin color. Did you -- did you ever ask Kamala Harris to condemn his remarks?
COLLINS: There are 33--
COTTON: Did you ever ask him, or ask her if that was racist?
COLLINS: But Senator, this is a question.
COTTON: Did you ask -- did you ask--
COLLINS: You're a Republican senator.
COTTON: Did you ask -- Kaitlan, did you ask -- Kaitlan, did you ask Kamala Harris--
COLLINS: So, I would ask you about the Republican -- the Republican nominee.
COTTON: Kaitlan, did you ask Kamala Harris why she's willing to serve as a vice president, for a man she essentially called racist and a segregationist.
COLLINS: OK. Well--
COTTON: Have you or anyone else in the media asked Kamala Harris, those questions, Kaitlan? COLLINS: Senator, trust me. I covered the Biden-Harris White House. We obviously have asked for her to come on.
But my question is for you about this.
Donald Trump's pick for VP once questioned whether he was America's Hitler.
But Senator, before you go, I do want to ask you a question, on Israel, tonight. Because before everything happened today, in Chicago, a top Hamas leader was killed, in the Iranian capital, overnight.
Israel has not yet claimed responsibility for Ismail Haniyeh's death. But they have vowed to eliminate Hamas, its leaders, after October 7th.
And I do -- I'm curious, given your position in the Senate, what you believe the impact of this is, on the region, and if it risks triggering a wider war?
COTTON: Well, the impact is justice, not just for Israeli victims of Hamas, but the American victims of Hamas. Hamas has much American blood on its hands, still holding American hostages to this day.
Israel did take credit, though, for the strike, in Beirut, yesterday, against not only someone who was a top Hezbollah commander, but someone who had the blood of more than 240 Marines on his hands, because he was responsible, in part, for the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing.
That's a strike that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, worked overtime, for three days, to convince Israel not to undertake. Thank goodness that Israel didn't listen to Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, and actually got vengeance, not just for the Israeli victims of Hezbollah, but also the American victims.
That's what we got, for instance, when President Trump killed Qasem Soleimani, what we won't get if Kamala Harris becomes president.
COLLINS: OK. The question was about whether or not it risks triggering an all-out war. We'll see what happens in that region.
Senator Tom Cotton, thank you for your time, tonight.
COTTON: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, I'll be joined by two veteran political operatives, to talk about race, and the 2024 race, and what that means for that tonight. Their insights on how Trump's latest lines of attack on Harris, and what it will mean to voters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:47:12]
COLLINS: Moments ago, you saw Republican senator of Arkansas, Tom Cotton, defending what former President Donald Trump said today, questioning Vice President Harris' race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I just want to quote his words to you, Senator.
He said, "I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So, I don't know. Is she Indian? Or is she Black?"
You can defend those comments, tonight?
COTTON: And he also said either -- either is fine, both is fine. He loves African-Americans. He loves Indian-Americans. He loves all Americans.
The point is that we don't know where she stands politically, because she spent her entire life as a dangerous San Francisco liberal. And now, in the last 10 days, she's tried to flip-flop on every single position.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Here to respond to all of that. CNN Political Commentators from both sides of the aisle. Karen Finney and Shermichael Singleton.
Karen, I'm going to start with you.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It was interesting. Clearly, Tom Cotton got a better set of talking points than we've heard earlier today.
But it was interesting, when I was watching your interview, it reminded me how much -- Donald Trump is so much less nimble than he used to be, right? Instead of just kind of pivoting away, and talking -- you know, doing those same talking points, he had to dig himself in further and further. And he attacked the journalist, who was interviewing him, and went on and on.
And, I mean, it was something that Cory Booker said, though, earlier today, on your show, I think it's really important. This is an old playbook. This is a tactic. He wanted to make some news. And he wanted to distract from having a conversation about the UAW endorsement that Kamala Harris got today, or maybe comparing his record with Black Americans versus the Biden-Harris record. Instead, he wanted to go there.
And I do think -- last thing I'll say. I want to be real clear. I don't believe that that was an effort to do outreach to Black voters.
That was about White voters. That was about being able to say to his base, and to say to, perhaps some voters, who may be on the fence: Look, see, I went. I tried. And they were just so mean to me. And so, I think he was really using it as a political tool.
COLLINS: Well, Shermichael, to that point, about Trump's ability, to pivot in the way that Senator Cotton just did, where he was saying, it's not about her race, it's about her stances on policy issues.
Donald Trump did not articulate that today. That was not his argument. I mean, he honed in -- when Rachel Scott asked him, pretty directly, if he viewed her, Harris, as a DEI hire. He honed in on questioning her. And now, he's posting on Truth Social, clips of her, talking about her family, her Indian family, and essentially trying to use that against her, doubling down on what he said.
[21:50:00]
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, look, as a strategist, I think you run the risk of further exciting your opponent's base. And that is exactly what is going to happen.
I mean, you saw the speech, from Vice President Harris in Texas. And you heard the applause from the audience. Her response was pretty measured, I would argue, objectively speaking.
I think the former President had a great opportunity there, to articulate a case, similar to what Senator Cotton just did, talking about some of those important, crucial, critical issues that do indeed impact all Americans, from cost, immigration, to foreign policy, et cetera. Black voters are certainly concerned about those things.
But when you get into this issue of race, Kaitlan? And I have talked about this on this show, all day today. You're not going to win on that issue. Republicans have not done well on matters of race, in what, five, six decades. It's why most African-Americans do not vote Republican. That's why most Hispanic-Americans do not vote Republicans. Because many in those groups view the Republican Party as frankly, being hostile towards issues of race.
So, I would, again, advise the former President, make your case about the issues. That's what people care about. Stay away from race. The campaign should not be about that. No one wants it to be about that. It turns people off. You need to add, not subtract, if you want to do well. And I certainly don't think today certainly added much.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Karen, in addition to just being wrong, Harris has never -- has not shied away from her race. I mean, there are articles of her in the 80s--
FINNEY: Right.
COLLINS: --talking about it. She was in -- she was an AKA. She went to Howard, a historically Black college and university.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, this is not something that's actually based in reality.
But to Shermichael's point of this isn't the way to win. The next three months, there are going to be many opportunities, where Trump is going to be asked about this. What happens if he answers like he did today? FINNEY: Well, he's going to keep answering -- I mean, let's be clear. This is not someone, who's going to change, right? So, it's going to continue to be racist and sexist and misogynist. I mean, you could just see the disrespect with which he was treating Rachel Scott, was reminiscent of 2016. So, I think we're going to only see more of it.
But again, he is using it as a political tool, as a way to get attention, and distract from having a conversation about issues and policy, because he didn't think he was going to have to, with Joe Biden in the race.
COLLINS: Yes. I thought those three reporters did a great job, today.
SINGLETON: I mean--
COLLINS: Go ahead, Shermichael. Finish your point.
SINGLETON: I mean, I was just going to say quickly here. I mean, look, if we're going to have an honest conversation, about the issues, right, from a conservative perspective? What does free market politics and free market capitalism look like? Let's have the debate.
If we're going to have a debate about the difference between moral relativism and how liberalism may not be great, culturally speaking, in terms of customs of behavior in the country. Let's have that debate.
If we're going to talk about having a strong national defense?
I personally believe, as a conservative, we win on those arguments, we win on those issues, comparatively speaking, compared to those who are proponents of liberalism, that the Democrats.
But when you're not able to articulate that message, Kaitlan, to some of the individuals, in the middle, that you're going to need to get across that finish line? You are putting yourself in an unnecessary box.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: Shermichael Singleton.
FINNEY: Can I--
COLLINS: Karen Finney.
Thank you both for your time.
SINGLETON: Thanks, Kaitlan.
FINNEY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next, we also have new reporting on the incredibly tense situation that we just mentioned earlier, on the Middle East. The New York Times reporting, tonight, that Iran's leader has ordered a direct attack on Israel. What that could look like? The concerns, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:58:09]
COLLINS: Tonight, The New York Times is reporting that Iran's Supreme Leader has ordered a direct attack on Israel. That comes less than 24 hours after the political leader of Hamas was killed, during -- in a strike, inside of the Iranian capital.
Hamas has accused Israel of killing Ismail Haniyeh, in Tehran, just hours after he attended the inauguration of Iran's new president.
Israel has not confirmed or denied that it was behind that assassination.
But the question is what happens next, in a region that was already on edge?
CNN National Security Analyst, Beth Sanner, is here.
And that is the question. If there is going to be a direct strike, what does that look like? And how does that play out for U.S. officials, who are watching this, right now, from the Pentagon, from the Situation Room?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. Well, Kaitlan, it could range.
It could range from something that is a combined attack, with all of the proxies involved, or at least Hezbollah involved, as well as Iran. It could be fairly minimal and just symbolic, from Iran, because they struck Hamas' official, not Iran-proper. But it could be another kind of massive strike.
It all depends on the feeling in the Supreme Leader of Iran's mind, about what he can get away with, without creating all-out war that will draw the United States in, to a war with Iran. He doesn't want that.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANNER: So, at this point, we just have to prepare for the worst. And we are doing that, with U.S. forces moving into the region.
COLLINS: What does that look like? What are those plans, and the preparations? As they don't know what this reaction is going to look like, how does the U.S. kind of get in place for whatever may come?
SANNER: Right. So, we have two naval groups there, one in the Red Sea and one in the Mediterranean. They were in the western Mediterranean, this carrier strike group. And now, it's moved in towards Cyprus, and off the coast of Lebanon.
[22:00:00]
And what that group will do, three main ships there, they will prevent -- provide added air defenses to Israel, to make sure that any missiles coming in, are taken out. And that will all be in coordination with Israel.
COLLINS: Yes. Obviously, so much to watch, for a region that was already on edge.
Beth Sanner, we will continue to monitor this, and hear from our sources on this. Thank you so much.
SANNER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
