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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris Campaign Claims She Hasn't Made A Decision On VP Yet; Trump Attacks Republicans In Georgia, Renews 2020 Election Lies And Sows Doubt Over 2024; RFK Jr. May Have Faced $250 Fine For Dumping Dead Bear, But Statute Of Limitations Has Expired. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 05, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is when you get serious flooding. And that is what has officials here, so concerned, to the fact that they've instituted a curfew. That is set to take into place here, in just under an hour. Officials warning residents here, to prepare for flooding, they have not ever seen in their lifetime.
I spoke, John, to the Mayor here, of Savannah. He says that he will not sleep while Debby is knocking here.
And the moral of the story is that this is not a sprint. This is a marathon. Debby crawling just six miles per hour.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Isabel Rosales, stay safe there in Savannah. Thank you so much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
The final hours until Kamala Harris chooses her running mate. The announcement could come at any moment. We're keeping our phones handy. And we have new reporting, tonight, about the apparent final two contenders.
Also tonight, a top Trump ally says he should stop attacking Harris' heritage, and start focusing on her policies. Senator Lindsey Graham will join me live, on that, and a lot more.
And if the dead worm in RFK Jr.'s brain wasn't enough for you, he has just confessed to dumping a dead bear in the middle of Central Park. Yes, you did hear that right.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, we are in full veep-watch, because within just hours from now, we will know who Vice President Kamala Harris has picked, to be her running mate, ending two weeks of whirlwind speculation, and an intense vetting process that usually takes months. Harris, however, had only days to make her decision. Publicly, the campaign says tonight that she still has not made that pick, as multiple sources are telling CNN that Harris has been focusing on two contenders in particular.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor Shapiro, have you heard from Vice President Harris?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was Pennsylvania governor, Josh Shapiro, arriving at his home, earlier tonight, getting the treatment that all VP potentials always get, reporters and cameras staked outside their homes, as they wait for the final call, on whether or not they're the one.
CNN also saw Shapiro shooting hoops in his yard, with his son, something that Barack Obama was known to do, on his big decision days. And that comes as "The New York Times" is reporting, tonight, Obama is actually among those that Harris has consulted about this decision.
Minnesota governor, Tim Walz, is said to be the other finalist. He was seen leaving his home, tonight, in Saint Paul, to go to a fundraiser for Harris. When he was at that event, he didn't give any indication whether or not he's been selected, or heard anything. But he did say during his speech, quote, "We've got an incredible candidate."
Now, who Harris picks is a question that is on every Democrat's mind tonight. Listen to what former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, had to say to Dana Bash, about the finalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I think they're all great. And whoever she picks, I'm for.
And -- but Tim Walz is wonderful. He was chaired by -- our Veterans Affairs Committee.
Governor of Pennsylvania is remarkable and a real star.
And I understand, Mark Kelly may still be in the running, from what MJ said.
But as she said, it's a question of who she feels the most comfort level with, in terms of governance. People say, well, who can help us win? But it's about who can help us govern, more than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, before they get to whether or not they will be governing together, we will see them campaigning together, first, tomorrow, at a rally in Pennsylvania, then in many other states after that.
Of course, that announcement may not wait until that rally, tomorrow, in Pennsylvania. We are told tonight that it could come as soon as tomorrow morning.
I'm joined tonight by some of our sharpest political minds. We really have the entire group here with us to break this down as we are waiting to see when this announcement will come out.
I want to start with you, former New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio.
Because as we look at this, and this decision, I think you just have to look at where this rally is going to be. In Pennsylvania. And I think some people look at that, and say, OK, it's hard to see how she doesn't pick a very popular governor, while in his home state that's crucial to winning in November.
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: And he's -- look, I think, governors, to begin with, make a lot of sense pairing with a senator.
Because Kamala Harris needs to show the country a lot of different things, as part of her winning formula. Showing that ability, to take the reins of government is really, really important, and a governor brings a lot to that equation, especially an effective and popular governor of a swing state. I mean, it's a great combination.
I'd say Walz, even though he's not swing state, also has that strength as a governor.
They are both great campaigners, too. I mean, this is an embarrassment of riches. And something, I have to tell you, as a Democrat, this was not always true, that we could say, what a deep bench we have. But we do have one now.
COLLINS: Yes.
And when you look at that, she hasn't -- she says that she hasn't picked today.
[21:05:00]
There was a report earlier that she had made her decision, Jim Messina. And we got this text from the Harris campaign, later, saying that she has not decided yet, that they are still making this call.
I mean, I think part of this also is her trying to really juice -- get as much juice, and coverage out of this as possible, which is what we saw, four years ago, when she was the pick.
JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER, FORMER WH DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR OBAMA: Kaitlan, you're exactly right.
And there's so much to go into this. We've never had a VP selection, this fast. I mean, two weeks ago, she was still the Vice President, not the nominee. They've had to vet these people. They're trying to figure this out very quickly. And so, I believe them when they say she's still trying to think about this.
I wouldn't get as excited about Pennsylvania, in the Shapiro camp. I think Pennsylvania, having it there, is about Pennsylvania being the ultimate swing state. You've got to win Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. And so, it makes sense, no matter who the candidate is, to start there.
That said, I agree with the Mayor. A very popular governor of a big swing state makes a lot of sense to me. But the truth is, she has so many good picks here, Kaitlan, she almost can't go wrong.
COLLINS: Well, and Margie Omero, given that point that maybe we don't know, and that is an important caveat, because we don't -- we have no idea who it's going to be, right now. We have our best reporting. But until it's final, everyone's hesitant to lean in any direction.
But when you look at the polling here, and the upsides for each candidate, maybe the downsides for some. I think, really, people have been focused on what upsides bring the most to the ticket? What's your assessment of where the field stands, right now?
MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, I agree with others that there have been a lot of good names that have been on the list.
I think it's very -- even if there had been a long amount of time, it's very difficult to test these kinds of things through research, look at polling, and then show people video of candidates, and see how they perform in a battle -- in battleground states or nationally, because ultimately you're asking about a hypothetical.
And it's not until the VP pick is on the national stage, do voters really get to get connected, and start to learn about whoever it is.
And also, keep in mind, too, if we're looking at what polls are showing, about how people feel about candidates, right now, swing voters are going to need more information. They're going to need more exposure than those, who already have some idea, who some of these figures are.
COLLINS: Yes. And when you look at this, David Urban, I think people -- J.D. Vance may be happy for someone else to be named as the VP pick, so this focus will stop being on him, as everyone's looking at his past comments.
But I do think that's a real question of when it comes to filling out the ticket, really, it's Trump and Harris that are going to matter the most to voters on Election Day.
But from Republicans' point of perspective, point of view, I mean, who would you be the most worried about being her final pick?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: So look, Josh Shapiro has been a longtime friend of mine. I think he's the, by far the best political athlete in this class, in this grouping, right? He is a tremendous campaigner, very popular in the State of Pennsylvania. May give you -- may give you a bounce of half percent may, you know -- the statistics have shown in the past. And he's an all-around good guy. Now, the question for the Democrats is, what does that do to their race in Michigan, where there may be some more progressive parts of the party that may not like having someone of a Jewish faith, on the ticket, at the top, adding two more people, his wife and him on the ticket, with the first gentleman. So, I'm not quite sure.
Listen, Mark Kelly gives me a lot of -- gives me a lot of grief. I mean, fighter pilot, decorated combat veteran, astronaut, gun owner. I mean, he's a guy's guy, what people want to sit down and have a beer with him at a bar. Immigration state. He's a tough guy.
Poll after poll shows that Donald Trump is perceived as very strong, and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are perceived as weak. So, if you're looking to shore up kind of the toughness and the machismo of your ticket, Mark Kelly's about as good as it gets. I'd put him in that fighter jacket, that leather fighter jacket, and have him campaigning all over the United States.
So there's a lot -- you know, I think Jim might have said it, it's an embarrassment of riches, or maybe it was the Mayor that said it, embarrassment of riches, here. They have three good picks.
But at the end of the day, Kamala Harris is going to have to defend the Biden administration's record, on lots of things, immigration, inflation, crime, Afghanistan.
COLLINS: Yes.
URBAN: And as you're right, Kaitlan, it's going to be Trump versus her, and that's going to be the main -- the main card.
COLLINS: Well, and part of this audition process that has been as truncated as it is, is seeing these contenders go out, and advocate on her behalf, but on -- on the records behalf, and those issues that you're talking about there, David.
And so, Mr. Mayor, I want to -- when you look at that, we've heard from Josh Shapiro, and Tim Walz, recently, on this issue. And they've come out publicly and defended her.
I just want everyone to listen to what they've been saying.
[21:10:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): These are -- these are weird people on the other side. They want to take books away. They want to be in your exam room.
Have you ever seen the guy laugh? That seems very weird to me. That an adult can go through six-and-a-half years of being in the public eye. If he has laughed, it's at someone, not with someone.
How often in the world do you make that bastard wake up afterwards and know that a Black woman kicked his ass and sent him on the road?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): While he's hugging the flag, you know what he's doing? He's ripping away our freedoms.
It's not freedom to tell our children what books they're allowed to read. That's not freedom.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
SHAPIRO: It is not freedom to tell women what they're allowed to do with their bodies. That's not freedom.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DE BLASIO: I love both of them.
I love what Governor Walz, especially there, kind of saying what I think is on the minds of so many Americans, including a lot of Independents, a lot of moderate folks, that just is not normal. This is not OK. I think he does that really, really effectively.
But I want to just go back one step. And David is a smart, smart guy. I've watched him many times, with his commentary. But let's be clear. We have a problem in America with anti-Semitism. And it is on right, and it is on left, both.
COLLINS: Yes.
DE BLASIO: For God's sakes, the Nativists, the right-wing fundamentalists, that's where there's a huge anti-Semitism problem. There certainly is some on the left as well.
But on the question of the Democratic Party, the vast, vast majority of Democrats are supporting Kamala Harris. If she chooses Josh Shapiro, whoever she chooses, they're supporting Kamala Harris energetically.
COLLINS: Well, and they all have pretty similar views on Israel.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: So obviously, there's one thing that Josh Shapiro does have, in common with them, which is that he's Jewish.
Jim Messina, on this reporting tonight from "The New York Times" that Barack Obama, former President, is one of those, in that very small circle, that is helping her make her decision, helping with this process that is a very unfamiliar one to most people, but one that she knows well.
I mean, what does that -- what does that help look like, coming from someone like him, who's been through this when he picked Joe Biden?
MESSINA: Yes, Kaitlan, you're exactly right. He'll walk her through the decision he made. He had a very tough choice. In the end, it came down to Tim Kaine and Joe Biden. It really is about who you think can be the President of the United States, someday, and who you want to spend the next four years with, and who can balance the ticket. In the end, we thought that Biden was the best balance to that ticket.
And so, just having someone? There's only a few people on this planet, who've made this call. And so, having someone say, hey, here's what went through my mind. Here's how I thought about it. I think it's really helpful to her, especially since she has to do this, in such a quick timeframe, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, it's amazingly quick. This is normally something that is a months-long discussion. And now, we're seeing it happen within two weeks.
Great to have you all here, as we are standing by this hour, to see if that news comes out soon.
Up next, we're going to talk about Donald Trump, who just took a big gamble, in the pivotal battleground of Georgia. He returned there, on Saturday night, after Harris was there, over that. We'll tell you what he said while he was there.
GOP senator, Lindsey Graham, is here to talk about it all.
Plus tonight, you heard from the former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, there. She also made some news, moments ago, about when she last spoke with President Biden.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With Georgia very much back in play, this presidential election, Donald Trump is not only reviving his 2020 election lies there. He is also laying the groundwork, to sow doubt for 2024, if things don't go his way.
Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your governor, Kemp, and Raffensperger, they're doing everything possible to make 2024 difficult for Republicans to win.
Raffensperger ought to make sure that the vote is honest. And they don't want the vote to be honest. In my opinion, they want us to lose.
Little Brian, little Brian Kemp. Bad guy.
The radical-left Democrats rigged the presidential election in 2020. And we're not going to let them rig the presidential election in 2024.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, the 2020 election was not rigged. There was a hand tally, in Georgia, to actually prove it.
But while he was there, on Saturday night, Donald Trump also revived his feud, as you can hear, with that popular governor, in one of the most critical battlegrounds in this election.
My next guest says, if Republicans lose Georgia, quote, it could be a very long night.
Republican senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham joins me now.
Senator. I mean, talking about it being a very long night, come November 2024.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, I know you know Governor Kemp. Does attacking a popular Republican governor--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --in a pivotal swing state, make political sense to you?
GRAHAM: Well, here's what -- no, not really, to be honest with you.
Governor Kemp has been a good governor. I thought President Trump was a great president. And Trump supported Kemp's opponent in the primary, David Perdue, who's a good friend. Kemp won. Going away, Governor Kemp refused to support President Trump in the Republican presidential primary. That's behind us.
I'm going to meet with Governor Kemp, tomorrow night, in Atlanta, and I hope we can come out of this thing together.
The best thing for Georgia is to defeat Kamala Harris. She is a disaster. Everything she's touched is turned to crap. So, I am focused on beating her, and making sure Trump gets another term.
And the one state I will be watching, above all others, on Election Night, is Georgia.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: So, what do you plan to say to Governor Kemp? Because, as you noted, it was -- to me, Governor Kemp told me that he did not vote for Donald Trump, in the primary, that he didn't--
GRAHAM: Yes, that's right.
COLLINS: --he didn't write anyone in.
GRAHAM: It's just fine.
COLLINS: But he did say he's going to vote for Trump in November. GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: Yet Trump is still attacking him.
GRAHAM: Well, here's what I would say. You said, Governor Kemp, you're going to work to make sure Kamala Harris is not president.
She cast the tie-breaking vote, on the Inflation Reduction Act. Schumer told us, last year, if you'll vote for this $2 trillion package, everything will be fine this summer. Well, everything's not fine.
She was the last person in the room, with President Biden, before we withdrew from Afghanistan. She should never be in another room, making a hard decision again.
So, I'm going to appeal to Governor Kemp and President Trump. Let's focus on coming together, and winning Georgia. Georgia is there for the taking.
Georgia -- Georgians are my neighbor. They're surfing. High prices at the gas pump, at their grocery store. Crime is rampant all over this country. The Mideast is on fire. So, we got so much in common. And the one thing I would say we have in common is that we all view the policy choices of Kamala Harris, as an absolute disaster for this country, at home and abroad.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, but -- you know, Governor Kemp won. Trump said that crime in Atlanta is out of control. In Georgia, he said it was a killing field. Homicides are actually down there. But he was blaming Kemp for that.
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: But the message that you just laid out there, Governor Kemp is a very conservative, popular Republican governor. He articulates a lot of what you just said.
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: So, is that message more for him--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --or for Donald Trump?
GRAHAM: I think -- I think what we need to do is prosecute the case against Kamala Harris. We're reaping what they have sown, for four years, at home and abroad.
The border is broken. She was the border czar. Enough fentanyl has come across the border, on her watch, to kill everybody in the world.
Inflation is up, because we restricted oil and gas production, here at home, over-regulate, over-tax, over-spend. In Israel. We gave the Ayatollah -- Biden did and Harris, $80 billion of sanctions relief. When Trump left, they were selling 300,000 barrels oil a day. Now it's 1.2 million a day.
COLLINS: But Senator?
GRAHAM: That $80 billion has gone in the war machine.
COLLINS: I think--
GRAHAM: So, that's what I would be talking about.
COLLINS: But when you hear Donald Trump go after Brian Kemp, as you just did there, I mean, he was calling him, little Brian Kemp.
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: He said they don't want the vote to be honest, in my opinion.
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: They want us to lose the election.
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: That's my opinion.
GRAHAM: No, I don't -- yes, I don't -- you know, I think we're going to have a good, honest vote in Georgia.
J.D. Vance said that we made changes in Georgia. Mail-in voting did hurt us. COVID, that consent decree that Raffensperger entered into, with Stacey Abrams, didn't make any sense to me. But I certified the election results in 2020.
And here's what I think about 2024. I think it is our election to lose. David Axelrod is right. It really is President Trump's election to lose. People are hurting at home, and they're hurting domestically. The world is on fire. Inflation, a broken border. Things are not going well here.
And Kamala Harris, everything she's touched, she's really just turned to crap, for lack of a better way to say it. And she's never going to fix anything.
COLLINS: Yes. But you're--
GRAHAM: And she picked Shapiro? I'm sure he's a great guy.
COLLINS: You're making that argument against her--
GRAHAM: Look, he's not going to change policy.
COLLINS: --her policies.
But when Donald Trump comes to Georgia. GRAHAM: I am.
COLLINS: A state that he needs to win. And he's going after--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --Marty Kemp, Governor Kemp's wife, because she didn't vote for Donald Trump. He tried to get her husband fired.
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, you talked about David Perdue.
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: He tried to get Kemp fired, and said--
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes. That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, is that helping Republicans win Georgia?
GRAHAM: No. No. I think the best way to win Georgia is for Governor Kemp to align with President Trump. Take his ground game, and give it to President Trump. Focus on the dangers of a Harris presidency. Again, we're reaping what's been sown for four years. We better stop these policies. They're killing us at home and abroad.
So, I expect -- and I'll talk to Governor Kemp tomorrow, and I'll let you know how it goes. I hope we're united in Georgia. We can't afford to lose.
The best thing for Georgia, if you love Georgia? And I live in South Carolina. And I love my friends in Georgia. The best thing for Georgia is for Donald Trump to be President of the United States, and fire Kamala Harris.
COLLINS: But don't you think you should talk to Donald Trump and not Brian Kemp? Because it seems like this is all coming from Trump.
GRAHAM: I'll talk to both of them. I'll talk -- so, he's obviously upset that Kemp didn't support him. Kemp was upset that he supported his opponent. I get that. That happens in both parties.
But we have a historic opportunity, as Republicans, to win the White House, the Senate and the House. And let's take advantage of it.
And God knows, our country needs to change direction. There is no hope for this country, if she gets to be President of the United States. She's proven time and time again, she has bad judgment.
COLLINS: Well--
GRAHAM: On things that really matter to the average person.
COLLINS: Senator, that's an interesting--
GRAHAM: So, let's get united in Georgia and everywhere else.
COLLINS: It's an interesting point you make there, because obviously you don't agree with Vice President Harris, or the Biden-Harris policies. No one's surprised by that.
GRAHAM: Right. I don't.
COLLINS: You're a Republican governor from South Carolina.
GRAHAM: Right.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: But I'm listening to you. Every time I ask you about what Trump has said about Kemp. You're talking about Harris and her policies.
Senator Tom Cotton did the same last week. When we were talking about what Trump has said, questioning when Harris turned Black, as he put it, he kept turning back to her policies.
But why are you and Tom Cotton doing that?
GRAHAM: No, I'm very, I'm very--
COLLINS: But not the top of the ticket, Donald Trump?
GRAHAM: No, I'm very--
COLLINS: But why is your candidate--
GRAHAM: Yes, I'm very direct.
COLLINS: --not doing that?
GRAHAM: Well, I hope he will. I hope that what we'll have, after this is all said and done, is some unity in Georgia that's lacking right now. It's not in anybody's interest for us to lose Georgia.
President Trump has a historic opportunity, to change the course of the nation and the world at large. I think he's the right solution to the problems that we face at home and abroad. But you got to win Georgia. The best way to win Georgia is for Trump and Kemp to kind of bury the hatchet and move forward.
I'm going to talk to him, tomorrow night. I'm going to do my part to see if we can get everybody back together, and focus on the real enemy here. And the real enemy, politically, our political enemy, not our personal enemy, are the policy choices of an out-of-control liberal Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.
COLLINS: You're-- GRAHAM: We've got to end this madness.
COLLINS: You're a close--
GRAHAM: America can't stand this four more years.
COLLINS: You're a close confidant of Donald Trump's. You flew with him to the Republican convention--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --right after his attempted assassination.
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: Why do you think he has struggled to, now that Harris is at the top of the ticket? You had said it would be a drastically, dramatically different race. Why do you think these last two weeks have been so difficult for him, as he's been up against her?
GRAHAM: So, I think what you're going to see here is that now she is going to be the nominee. We know that for sure.
I think you're going to see a very focused Donald Trump, and a Republican effort, from everybody, to focus on the policy choices she's made in the future -- she would make -- in the past, and she would make in the future. I hope that comes. I think that's coming. I know this.
I've talked to President Trump a lot. He's worried about the future of our country. He believes he's the best guy to fix the problems we have at home and abroad. And to do that, you got to win, you got to win Georgia. So, I am hopeful.
Our problems are personality.
Their problems are policy choices that are hurting the average American, and set the world on fire.
If we can get our personality problems fixed, we'll win this election.
Because their policies are never going to be fixed by them. They'll never change course. I don't know why -- who she's going to pick for vice president. But they won't do a damn thing different than she's doing.
COLLINS: Well, interesting to hear you say personality problems are your party's issues. Obviously, talking about Donald Trump's personality.
Senator, let me get your take on this, because a very -- everyone is watching.
GRAHAM: Oh, it's deeper than him. I promise you that.
COLLINS: OK. GRAHAM: We have a lot of personality problems in our party.
COLLINS: OK. We'll revisit that later.
But let me ask you about an important issue, in the Middle East, because several U.S. personnel today were injured, in a suspected rocket attack--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --against a base in Iraq. Obviously, there are a lot of U.S. forces there that people are watching, as the region is really on a knife's edge--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --at this moment.
You saw President Biden--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --in the Situation Room, earlier, with his team. They're moving U.S. carriers--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --closer to Israel, as there is a real concern about what Iran's promised retaliation, against Israel, is going to look like.
How soon do you think we could see action, in the Middle East, and what scale do you think--
GRAHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --that response could be at?
GRAHAM: Any minute now, in terms of time. Scale, I don't know.
But the underlying problem is we lost deterrence here. We flushed the Iranian regime with money, as I said, before relieving oil sanctions and allowing them to sell more oil, they've taken the money and wreaking havoc on the Mideast. All the proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, they get rockets and missiles from Iran. So, it's really created a problem for Israel.
So, how do you regain deterrence? I would say, tonight, to the Iranians, if you're watching. I doubt you are. If it were up to me, and you keep this up, you keep trying to slaughter the Israelis, attack American shipping in the Red Sea, through the Houthis, we're going to blow your oil refineries up. Knock this crap off.
COLLINS: Yes. And just, I'll note, 34 U.S. service members were injured, when Trump was in office, and Iran attacked a base as well.
We are all watching to see what happens. GRAHAM: Yes, well--
COLLINS: Senator.
GRAHAM: --there is no comparison between the two presidencies here, you know?
OK. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
COLLINS: Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you for your time tonight.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
COLLINS: Let us know how that conversation goes.
GRAHAM: I will. Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next here. We just heard from the former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, revealing on CNN, what the current state of her relationship is with President Biden. We'll tell you what she said right ahead.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In just hours from now, Vice President Harris is going to announce her pick, for her running mate. But the process of how she got here, and how she is on the top of the ticket, may have been left some long -- and may have left some longstanding ties within her party.
Take, for example, this. House Speaker Nancy -- former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, and what she had to say to Dana Bash, earlier, about where her relationship, at this moment stands, with President Biden, since he left the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Have you spoken to President Biden since he dropped out?
PELOSI: No. No, I have not.
BASH: Do you hope to?
PELOSI: Yes, when -- I hope to, yes. We're all busy.
BASH: Is everything OK with your relationship?
PELOSI: You'd have to ask him.
BASH: OK.
PELOSI: But I hope so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next guest is a California Democrat, who's on the Harris campaign's National Advisory Board. Congressman Ro Khanna.
It's great to have you, Congressman.
[21:35:00]
I mean, when someone asks how your relationship is with someone, and you say you have to ask them? It's probably not the best sign.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, look, I've known Speaker Pelosi for over 20 years. She's very, very pragmatic, even when it comes to our own family or friends. It was nothing personal for her with President Biden. She thought that we needed a change, to be able to win the race. And that's why she advocated the way she did.
COLLINS: It's just remarkable.
And she told CBS, I believe, that she did not make any direct calls, about him getting out of the race. But clearly, I mean, she could take the temperature on where your party stood.
Remarkable to think that that was just two weeks ago, two weeks and a day, that he exited this race. And now, here we are, on the cusp of Harris picking her running mate. What is the criteria specifically that she's using, and looking at, as she makes this decision?
KHANNA: I think she's got three excellent choices that have been reported.
I mean, Tim Walz obviously has a great record in Minnesota. He's folksy. He connects.
I was just in Johnstown, Pennsylvania and talking about bringing steel mills. And they love Josh Shapiro, in rural Pennsylvania and factory towns.
And of course, Mark Kelly is a hero, an astronaut. And Gabby Giffords, his wife, a victim of gun violence.
So, I trust the Vice President's judgment. I think she has three excellent choices.
COLLINS: Well, can I ask you about Governor Shapiro, of Pennsylvania, which is where this rally is going to be held tomorrow? As Jim Messina noted, obviously, it's also a battleground state. No one should take any ideas that that means he's going to be the pick.
But Pennsylvania senator, John Fetterman, has not endorsed his own state's governor, for this role. "POLITICO" reported that Fetterman's aides had expressed concerns, about him being the pick, to the Harris campaign, to her team. Obviously, Fetterman used to be the Lieutenant Governor in the state. Shapiro was the Attorney General. Clearly, they are not the closest of allies.
But how do you personally look at that, with Senator Fetterman not endorsing his own home state's governor?
KHANNA: Look, I had campaigned for John Fetterman. There are a lot of things I agree with him. But politicians, who knows what the history is there? What matters is the voters.
And I can tell you, having just been in Johnstown, having been in Bucks County, Josh Shapiro is loved by a lot of people in Pennsylvania. And so, if Vice President Harris picks him, that would help him -- help her in Pennsylvania. If he's not the pick, I'm still confident he'll campaign for the ticket. And we need his advocacy to win Pennsylvania.
COLLINS: Yes, well, and as you look at this, speaking of how the ticket looks, and how it shakes out.
A CBS poll showed today that voters still trust Trump more on the economy than Harris. 45 percent say that they'd be better off under his policies compared to, right now, it's at 25 percent for Harris.
And when you look at that, through the lens of today's global sell- off, and the concerns about the market, her message on the economy is obviously going to be crucial, to how she does in this race.
And I wonder, how soon do you think that she should be doing press conferences, and interviews, to talk about where she stands, and how she views what happened today in the market, but also the economy overall.
KHANNA: I absolutely think she needs to do it. I mean, we're running a future versus past race. But we also have to have a concrete economic vision for the future that's going to help working-class and middle- class elections -- middle-class Americans.
Now, let me just say, on the stock market crash. You had a crash three times as big in 2018, under Donald Trump. So, the markets go up and down.
And the large problem here was that the Fed was too late, in raising rates. And now, they've been too slow in cutting rates. And you also had a situation in Japan, where the interest rate went up, and that's partly what caused some of the liquidation. So, there are a lot of complex factors.
But I think the key is that Vice President Harris needs to talk about what she's going to do on rents, what she's going to do on the interest rates, on credit cards, what she's going to do for grocery prices, and put out a clear, bold economic vision.
COLLINS: And how soon do you, personally, as someone who is out there advocating for her, on the campaign trail, how soon do you want to see that?
KHANNA: Well, look, she just became the nominee. She's had to pick the vice president. But I hope this week, or certainly on convention week, as she's hitting her stride, that she'll talk about what the agenda is. And that should include strengthening Social Security and Medicare. It should include capping rents, when rents have been outrageous. It should include caps on people's credit card bills, and the interest rates that credit card companies are charging. It should include going after price gouging, because people are paying too much still, for groceries.
We have to understand people are still hurting out there, and we need to address that issue. Whoever addresses the pain, the hardships, of working- and middle-class Americans is going to win this election.
COLLINS: Congressman Ro Khanna, great to have you here. Thank you for joining, tonight.
KHANNA: Thank you.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Up next, the former President is complaining about one of his favorite topics, the size of crowds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So what she did is, she's gotten a couple of rappers, and they fill up the place. But what she does is a little bit different. She has them go last.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There is one issue that former President Donald Trump believes he is far better on, than Vice President Harris. And he is using it to pitch voters in Georgia.
[21:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Crazy Kamala, ultra-left, you know that. She was here a week ago. Lots of empty seats.
It's very boring. I don't need entertainers. I fill the stadium, because I'm making America great again.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
TRUMP: She has to go get entertainers. They start leaving as soon as she opens her mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump was complaining that an estimated 10,000 people were at Harris' event that she had there, a few days before.
I should note, they were hosting their rallies, in the exact same arenas. I should -- as these were happening, side by side, you can see both of the images here.
Joining me, tonight, is the former Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger.
And Congressman, obviously, Trump -- we were just talking to Lindsey Graham, about Trump and how he's going after Harris.
I'm told, privately, he's been complaining about the coverage that she's getting, the momentum that clearly Democrats have felt, since Biden exited the race.
Crowd sizes have always been an obsession of his. But I wonder what you make of how often he kept bringing it up, on Saturday night, and clearly since then.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (R-IL), HONORARY CHAIRMAN, COUNTRY FIRST: Well, I mean, it obviously bothers him.
I mean, let's keep in mind. I sat through his inauguration. And it was a pretty empty mall in the capital. Nothing wrong with that, because people didn't want to travel from super-far-away. But he was obsessed with that for four years in office.
And I mean, if you think about, let's think back to when he was President. Every day there was some new tweet that wasn't talking about important things, like Iran or Ukraine, or -- it was talking about something that he was offended by, that the rest of America didn't care about. So, that's what you're seeing.
And he talks about Kamala bringing entertainers. Let's be clear. He's got a lot of, frankly, D-list celebrities, and he had a couple of rappers that were wanted on murder charges, at one of his rallies. He would have these same entertainers. He's just got nobody with real star power there.
And yes, I mean, it just -- he's obsessed with that, and not with talking about how he wants to make America better. It's just that's how he is.
COLLINS: And I should note that you're part of a newly relaunched group that is, is Republicans, who are voting for Harris. It's this outreach to pull Republicans into supporting the Harris campaign.
And as you're looking at that? And you're going to see her on this full battleground swing, this week, after she announces who her VP pick is going to be. She's going to be going to a litany of states. We've got a map of all the ones that she's going to be visiting.
I wonder why you feel, with her as the nominee, you think that this effort, trying to get Republicans, to vote for her, may be more impactful than it was with Biden at the top of the ticket?
KINZINGER: Well, I think even if it was still Biden, there'd be a significant amount of Republicans that are just really tired of Donald Trump, understand that if we want a healthy Republican Party in the future, it can't be with Donald Trump.
But look, the Vice President obviously has brought a lot of new energy among Democrats. I think Republicans are looking at this, and saying, we may not agree with her on everything, or even most things.
But the most important thing, right now, is you have a guy running for president that at one point had convinced a third of the country that the election system doesn't even work, that their vote didn't count. And in a situation like that, you can't expect self-governance, the ability to vote for your leaders to survive, when a significant amount of people are convinced about that.
So, I think, Republicans -- look, it's not going to be the majority of Republicans, obviously. But there is a group of Republicans that are looking and saying, we care about things, like Ukraine. We care about things like how our political system works.
And quite honestly, Kamala is talking about the future and a vision. Agree or disagree with that vision. She's thinking about the future.
Donald Trump is obsessed with one thing, his grievances, himself, and now his crowd sizes.
COLLINS: Well, if someone's a Republican voter, and they're sitting -- they typically vote Republican. They're sitting at home watching you, a former Republican congressman, talk about how you're going to vote for Harris. But they have big concerns about the economy and the border.
What would you say to them?
KINZINGER: Well, look, I mean, totally, I get it, right? There's a lot of concerning things out there.
I would really ask what Donald Trump's stance on any of those things actually are. I mean, the guy flipped on TikTok. He didn't do anything with the border, when he was President. I mean, you can look at all his time as President, and he flipped on everything. He doesn't really stand for anything except his grievance.
So, what I would say to those folks is, look, you have 30-meter -- I'm going to use military terms. You have 30-meter targets, and then you have five-meter targets. You always focus on the target that's closest.
And the biggest threat, right now, that's on the ballot is, does this system, which we inherited, that worked, an election system that works, a democracy that works, are we going to leave that healthier for our children, or less healthier from our children?
And if we want to leave a healthier system, who's best to do this -- do that? And I would argue, it's Kamala. She respects democracy. Donald Trump has made it clear, he doesn't, and he's going to say the election was stolen, if he loses again.
COLLINS: Adam Kinzinger, thank you for joining. [21:50:00]
KINZINGER: Yes. You bet.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, the other candidate, in the 2024 race, RFK Jr., is now confessing that he did dump a dead bear cub in Central Park, a decade ago. Could he still face charges? We have new reporting on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is now admitting that 10 years ago, he dumped the body of a dead bear, in Central Park, and placed it, for some reason, to look like it had been hit by a bike.
It was a case that baffled authorities, here in New York, when it happened, and even led the NYPD's Animal Cruelty squad to conduct an investigation that kind of went unanswered until now.
But when "The New Yorker" was on the verge of publishing a story, about this incident, Kennedy owned up to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., AMERICAN POLITICIAN: And then a woman in a van in front of me hit a bear and killed it. A young bear.
So, I pulled over, and I picked up the bear, and put him in the back of my van because I was going to skin the bear. And it was in very good condition. And I was going to put the meat in my refrigerator.
Late and instead of going back to my home in Westchester, I had to go right to the city because there was a dinner at Peter Luger Steak House. I had an old bike in my car that somebody asked me to get rid of. I said, let's go put the bear in the Central Park and we'll make it look like he got hit by a bike.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Not sure about the laughter. But I think everyone had that same look on their face that Roseanne did, as he was recounting that story.
Today, "The New Yorker" published that profile, which included this anecdote, and the picture that Kennedy actually took, posing with the -- his hand in the dead bear cub's mouth.
Joining me, tonight, Political Reporter for "POLITICO," and here in New York, Emily Ngo.
I mean, it's kind of hard to even really know where to start with this. EMILY NGO, POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO, CO-AUTHOR, POLITICO'S NEW YORK PLAYBOOK: Right. Every single detail of this anecdote is confounding. At the same time, it seems pretty on brand, for this far- out third-party candidate, that as a grounding reminder, is a presidential contender, wants to represent the country, and is relevant in that he is a spoiler candidate.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and he's like, making jokes about it. I mean, when "The New Yorker" asked him about it, he responded, maybe that's where I got my brain worm from, when he talked about the short-term memory loss that he said he had from a parasitic worm.
I mean, I think you look at this, you look at what happened with the dead dog photo, as well, and just all of these instances just leading up to, one, the great reporting that has been done on his campaign run. It's actually gotten attention. But just speaks to his nature in this 2024 race.
NGO: Exactly. This is a person, who peddles in conspiracy theories, not the least of which is the theory that vaccines cause autism, which is widely debunked.
And now, he's telling this story to a bemused Roseanne Barr, in a video that he posted on X, that said something to the effect of looking forward to seeing how you're going to spin this "New Yorker."
But it requires no spin. He was falconing upstate in the Hudson Valley, came across a bear, put it in his car, because he wanted to freeze it and eat it?
COLLINS: Yes.
NGO: Drove it to the city. But got deterred, because he had to go to Peter Luger. Then realized he was due at the airport. So decided to dump the bear in Central Park. And stated as if it had been hit by a bike.
But this cost the city, the government resources, to clean this up, to investigate.
COLLINS: Yes, there was a huge investigation into this, because two women had come across the dead bear cub, and called about it.
I mean, he could have technically faced a fine for this. I mean, the statute of limitations has expired. I think it would have been about $250.
But, I mean, it's past that now, to where there's no spinning it for "The New Yorker" to do. It's more his explanation that I think only gets more bizarre.
NGO: Exactly. And there is actually a petition live now by MoveOn that sort of calls on city authorities, NYPD included, to investigate this incident, because, again, it cost the city resources.
The fact that he's taking it so lightly speaks a lot to his character, and how serious or unserious he is. Again, this is someone that could spoil the race. He wants -- he's targeting Republicans in Democratic states, Democrats in Republican states. And in states, in battlegrounds like Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, he could swing the vote enough that it would affect the race for president.
COLLINS: Well, and so I was looking at his polling numbers, because, I mean, there were points, where he was doing quite well. He wanted to get on the CNN debate stage, for that initial debate, between President Biden and former President Trump.
Back in March, he was polling about 13 percent in a matchup, against Trump and Biden.
But now, as things have obviously changed so dramatically, this poll shows him only pulling 2 percent of the vote, among likely voters, which is important because it's who's going to actually go out and vote on Election Day. And it does speak to where does he stand in this race at this moment.
NGO: What's crucial is not just his support across the country, but again, in swing states, where it could be relevant. Because you do go around the country and see some lawn signs for him, if that's any indication of his support. And there are people, who have signed on to these conspiracy theories, and are rooting for him, because they like neither of the leading--
COLLINS: Yes.
NGO: --party contenders.
COLLINS: Did you ever think that you would be talking about this?
NGO: It has been such a bizarre election year, and a such bizarre couple of years politically that, I mean, it's not necessarily on my bingo card, but doesn't necessarily surprise me.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: And we were there in the early days of the Trump White House. I just want people to know that.
Emily, thank you so much.
And a PSA. If you live in New York City, and are wondering how to properly dispose of dead animals. Today, the City's Sanitation department posted a helpful and timely link.
Emily Ngo, thank you.
Thank you all so much, for joining us, here tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
