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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris, Walz Fire Up Crowd In Debut As Democratic Ticket; CNN Projection: Slotkin Vs. Rogers Matchup Set For MI Senate Race; Walz Voices Support For Second Amendment & Commonsense Gun Laws. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired August 06, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Walz joins the ticket, having already made his mark on the race, coining a new line of attack, against GOP presidential candidate, Donald Trump, and his Republican allies, with a single word. Weird.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not afraid of weird people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WALZ: We're a little bit creeped out. But we're not afraid.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WILD: Dana, the moment the news broke, there was a crowd here, outside his residence, in Saint Paul. And we had a chance to speak with some of those supporters. And they told us that they're looking forward for -- to America learning what they already know. They say that he's an authentic, steady fighter, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Whitney, thank you so much for that.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. And welcome to THE SOURCE. I'm Kaitlan Collins, on what has been a huge, energetic night, for the Democratic Party. Most of the country, tonight, getting a first look at the new 2024 Democratic presidential ticket.
Vice President Kamala Harris held her first joint rally, with her new running mate, that is Minnesota governor, Tim Walz, a military veteran, a former teacher and until recently, a little-known former congressman, and Midwestern governor, who skyrocketed to the national spotlight, virtually, overnight.
Harris herself introduced Walz, to the nation, before a lively crowd of thousands, in Philadelphia, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Since the day that I announced my candidacy, I set out to find a partner who can help build this brighter future.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: A leader who will help unite our nation and move us forward.
I'm here today because I found such a leader.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: To his former high school students, he was Mr. Walz.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And to his former high school football players, he was coach.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And, in 91 days...
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: ... the nation will know Coach Walz by another name -- vice president of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The crowd, as you can see, was jubilant, embracing Harris, and her welcoming her new running mate, like a rock star, following months of a stagnant presidential race.
Walz, who caught the campaign's eye, with his sharp attacks on Trump, in recent days, wasted no time in drawing a sharp contrast with the Republican ticket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: Some of us are old enough to remember when it was Republicans who were talking about freedom. It turns out now what they meant was the government should be free to invade your doctor's office.
(BOOING)
WALZ: In Minnesota, we respect our neighbors and their personal choices that they make.
(APPLAUSE)
WALZ: Even if we wouldn't make the same choice for ourselves, there is a golden rule -- mind your own damn business.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Vice President Harris casting herself, and Governor Walz, as the underdogs, in this 2024 race.
She also took a moment, tonight, to reflect on her newfound ticket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The promise of America is what makes it possible for two middle-class kids, one a daughter of Oakland, California...
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: ... who was raised by a working mother. The other, a son of the Nebraska plains who grew up working on a farm.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: It's the promise of America. Because only in America, only in America, is it possible for them together to make it all the way to the White House.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was quite a moment that we all watched.
I want to bring in our sharpest political minds, on that big night that we saw, tonight.
And David Axelrod. As Kevin Liptak so astutely noted a Joe Biden rally it was not. It was humorous. It was energetic. I mean, you saw a lot of people in the crowd.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: Right.
COLLINS: It was a moment.
AXELROD: Kevin is very astute. I'm not sure you needed to be that astute to make that observation.
But look, that was a rally that I'm familiar with, from my years working with Barack Obama. That was the feeling that you used to get, in those rooms.
[21:05:00]
The feeling that better things were possible, that you were part of something that a movement for change, that would deliver something positive, for people. And that is a powerful thing. It's a powerful -- powerful thing to see.
And it's a powerful contrast with what you see on the other side, you know? The Trump rallies, and his speeches may energize his base. But they feel so grinding. They're so negative. They're so filled with fear and grievance.
And so, if I'm sitting there, on the other side, I'm looking at this, and I'm thinking, this, a problem.
COLLINS: Did you--
AXELROD: This, a problem.
COLLINS: Did you get that vibe from it tonight, and just the sense of one, her commanding presence, which I believe, is very different than what we saw from her, four years ago. I mean, just seeing her, herself. But also the way she introduced Walz, what he added to that presence, in there, tonight.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020 CAMPAIGN: The Vice President has definitely found her stride in this moment, and has found her voice. And that, in and of itself, is inspiring, that you can grow into leadership. And I really think she has done that in the role as Vice President, and definitely as a candidate.
You said something. When you are organizing in politics, it's really hard to get volunteers to come in sometimes, or to get people to register to vote. But not if they want to be a part of something.
And in this moment, the yes we can--
AXELROD: Yes, yes.
ALLISON: --was, I'm a part of something. When we fight, we win, it's the collective. It's the community that can do this together. And that -- you don't get that in -- at Trump rallies, or in this MAGA. It's like us against them.
And this is this -- we can all do this together. Even if we don't agree on everything, I see you. I respect you. And I want to move this country forward. So, it's palpable.
That being said, there's still 91 days, and there's a lot of work to do.
AXELROD: Yes.
ALLISON: Because we are -- Democrats are not ahead yet. We have to win the White House. We have to win the Senate. And we have to win the House. The map is not in our favor. But this is definitely a race that can be won by Dems, if they keep the momentum and the strategy going like they did tonight.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know what? And thinking about that. I'm looking at two things internationally, in particular.
I'm looking at what's going on in Venezuela. And I'm curious what implications that could have on illegal immigration, individuals fleeing the country, coming to the United States. We know that's an issue for Vice President Harris.
I'm also looking at the conflict potentially pending between Israel and Iran. I don't think that's in favor of Vice President Harris as well, particularly with young progressives, and younger voters, generally speaking.
And so, I think there are some things that could potentially shake up this race that have not occurred yet--
AXELROD: Well and that--
SINGLETON: --or that can move things in a completely--
AXELROD: That--
SINGLETON: --different direction.
AXELROD: That is such an important point. Because the things that you worry about, when you're involved in the higher levels of a presidential campaign, are the things that you can -- that you know you're going to have to do. And then there are the things that you know you don't know.
COLLINS: Yes.
AXELROD: Things that are going to happen that you can't possibly anticipate, but can have a really dramatic effect on a campaign.
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: Well, and Harris has watched that up close.
And Jamie, you've been talking to your sources.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Harris is that up-close.
COLLINS: Yes, she's--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: She's lived it.
GANGEL: She is the surprise.
COLLINS: We've all felt it.
GANGEL: Right.
COLLINS: But Jamie, you've been talking to sources all day, about Walz himself being the pick. He is not a well-known figure. I mean, he will be now, as he's making speeches like that every single day, for the next 90 days.
But what did you hear from them about why they felt he was the best to complement the ticket with her?
GANGEL: So, someone texted me very quickly, and said he reads Republican. Josh Shapiro would not have read Republican. He may be, to some people's mind, more centrist.
But the vetting -- when they went through the vetting process, Walz, their belief -- and they don't have the polls yet to prove it. This is speed dating. We don't know yet. But when you look at his personality, he hunts, he fishes. You'd like to have a beer with him.
The campaign believes he will play well across battleground states, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, in North Carolina, in Georgia, in Western Pennsylvania.
And I think what we saw, tonight, in that speech, that was his superpower. You really did get to see the authentic guy.
And part of our reporting is that in the vetting meeting, he sort of stopped everybody dead at one point, and he said, there's something I have to share with you.
And like, what's this?
You have to know I've never used a teleprompter before. And he said so.
AXELROD: Well they picked him on the list anyway.
GANGEL: Right.
ALLISON: It wasn't disqualifying.
GANGEL: So he--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: They're looking for people, who don't need a teleprompter.
GANGEL: He said, if you pick me, you better find -- get me a teleprompter, and someone, to teach me how to use it.
Our reporting from MJ Lee tonight, behind-the-scenes, off stage, they got a teleprompter. He was practicing with it beforehand. But he knows how to deliver lines.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: Well, and the best part also was that when she called him, he initially didn't answer, because it was a blocked number, which is what happens when government phones call you. Because he didn't know who it was, so she had to call a second time, to tell him that he got the job. I do want to listen though to that point exactly, how he reads Republican, but also how he reads Republicans, and how his attacks on them--
GANGEL: Right.
COLLINS: --have been something that appealed to the campaign. Listen to what he said tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: Violent crime was up under Donald Trump.
(APPLAUSE)
WALZ: That's not even counting the crimes he committed.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: People have struggled to run against Donald Trump. This is a new tactic in a new way.
AXELROD: Yes. Look, there's danger a little bit in that. Obviously, the way he landed the punchline was very, very effective, just reminding people, who Trump is.
The truth is, crime is down, and it's down across the country. But there's -- there are certain kinds of crimes that are not, that go right to the quality of life in some of these urban communities.
And so, an honest rendering of this is to talk about that too, because -- and I suspect that they will. Even though crime is down, there are certain property crimes, and other kinds of crimes, that are really vexing. And people are concerned about it. There's no reason to run away from that.
The point -- the difference between -- that they should point out between Trump and their approach is, he views these problems, as weapons, to mobilize his base. He does not view these problems as something to be solved. And I think they have to -- they have to engage on some of those things.
ALLISON: When I think about -- sometimes, we talk about people in absolutes. Kamala Harris is going to identify with Black people. Tim Walz is going to identify with White men.
I think they have multiple layers, just as people do. I think Kamala Harris can speak to the 53 percent of White women, who supported Hillary Clinton and -- or supported Donald Trump in 2016 that she will need to bring over, for her work that she's done since Roe has been overturned.
I also think Tim Walz doesn't just speak to White working-class men. I think he can speak to all men. He was a coach. If you're a dad or an uncle, you know what it's like to go to one of your children's or nieces' and nephews' soccer game, or football game, or basketball game and like, cheer on the coach that leads your team to the state victory. That is something that every American can resonate with. And that's why I think he's a great pick.
AXELROD: Yes, the Coach versus the Couch.
COLLINS: Yes.
AXELROD: That's what it's going to be.
ALLISON: That's what it's going to be.
COLLINS: Everyone stand by, because we have, standing by, a key player in the Democratic Party. And that is South Carolina congressman, Jim Clyburn.
And it's great to have you here, Congressman.
Because you've known both the Vice President and Governor Walz. What did you make of their debut, on stage, tonight?
REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Thank you very much for having me.
I thought it was electric. It was a magnificent launch of a partnership that I think will take this couple, to the White House, and take this country into a much more productive, much more profitable, and I really believe, a much more pleasant future.
We're going through some trying times, in the country, today. And people are crying out for good, solid leadership. But they want the goodness of this country, to shine (ph) through.
And all that we get from the other side is a lot of grievances, a lot of hate, name-calling. This is not what people want.
And what you get from people like the Vice President Kamala Harris, and Tim Walz, is what the basic goodness of this country is all about.
I campaigned with Tim in his first -- when he first ran for Congress. I went up, and spent a couple days in his community. I went to the school that he taught in. And his wife was an English teacher at the time he was there. I had a town hall meeting with him. And we went to the Mayo Clinic, and spent a morning talking about health care at the Mayo Clinic.
This guy is genuine. He is down-to-earth. I watched the way the students reacted to him, how people reacted to him on the street. He is going to be a tremendous complement to this ticket. And I think they're going to be very, very successful.
COLLINS: Well, and you just heard David Axelrod talking about how Governor Walz is, they believe, one of the most effective messengers against Trump, against J.D. Vance. He came out hard, attacking him tonight with the line that you just heard. Obviously, Democrats love that. That is what they want to see. But obviously they're also trying to appeal to moderate voters in the middle. And I wonder, from your view, where that line is, in effective taunting of your opponent. But also, trying to pull in people, who may have voted for him, last time around.
[21:15:00]
CLYBURN: Well, the line is right in the production of the candidate. Look at his record. He has a record that the voters can look at, to see exactly what kind of governor he was. And that will give a clue as to what kind of vice president he will be.
He will be a tremendous partner for her. She comes from Oakland, California.
He comes from a little farm in Nebraska, a high school teacher, in Minnesota, 10 years in the classroom. I know a little something about that. In fact, that was the reason he asked me to come up, and help him in this campaign.
I too, started my career, as a social studies teacher. And I know what it means to connect to young people in the classroom, and to help them feel better about themselves, and more positive about their futures. Tim knows how to do that. And he will be a tremendous asset--
COLLINS: Yes.
CLYBURN: --to Kamala Harris, going forward.
COLLINS: This is why you always are nice to your social studies teachers, because they might be Vice President, one day.
Congressman Jim Clyburn, thank you, for joining us tonight.
CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.
COLLINS: And Shermichael, I mean to the point though -- teachers aside. I think everyone is scared of their social studies teacher might just vote for them out of that.
But how does the Trump campaign deal with this? Because it's not just the fact that it's two new candidates. It's the momentum around them. And what he just said there, it's electric in that room. There's a lot of momentum in the Democratic Party, right now.
SINGLETON: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: How do they counter that?
SINGLETON: Now, look, the Congressman says something that was very interesting. He talked about Democrats having a message for the future, for people who believe in liberalism, who believe in the Democratic Party.
Republicans have to do the same thing. If we're going to focus a lot on Kamala Harris and Governor Walz being too progressive, on the economic front, or soft on crime, or soft on immigration? Then we need to draw a contrast that gives people something to look forward to.
Republicans believe in the free market. If you want financial security? Then vote Republican.
If you want a secure border? Vote Republican.
If you don't want your sons and daughters going to countries that many people can't find on the map, that may cost billions of dollars for the country, and may take their lives? Vote Republicans.
You have to give people something aspirational to look forward to. And I don't think we're quite there yet.
AXELROD: Yes. Ashley was talking about giving people a cause to belong to--
SINGLETON: Yes.
AXELROD: --and be part of.
One of the -- one of the challenges, in a Trump campaign, is that at the end of the day, the message is, I will do it. You invest in me, and I will do this for you. And it's all about him. And it's really that, you know, it's really hard to build around.
It's much easier to build around, we're going to do this together.
COLLINS: We'll see what that looks like. They've got 90 days. And, as he said, they're not going to be getting any sleep.
He got very personal, tonight, at one point, also talking about his family's journey, with IVF, taking more jabs, not just at Donald Trump, but also at Senator J.D. Vance, his running mate.
How J.D. Vance is going after Walz, and responding to that tonight.
We'll also speak to a top Trump ally.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A bit of breaking election news for you tonight.
The Michigan Senate matchup has now been set, as CNN can now project that Democratic congresswoman, Elissa Slotkin, and former GOP congressman, Mike Rogers, will both win their respective primaries, tonight, setting up a showdown as they are vying for the retiring Senator Debbie Stabenow's seat, a Democrat, of course, making this a consequential general election race that could determine the balance of the Senate.
Certainly one to keep your eye on, as we are looking at the broader race overall, the 2024 race.
Tonight, you saw Minnesota governor, Tim Walz, introducing himself, as Kamala Harris' running mate.
There's a lot for voters to learn about him, over the next 90 days. He grew up in rural Nebraska, enlisting in the Army National Guard. He taught high school social studies, as you heard from Congressman Clyburn. He coached the football team there. And he also served as a faculty advisor for a gay straight alliance.
In 2006, he dove into politics by flipping a historically red Minnesota House seat, representing the state's 1st District until 2019. That's when he returned home to run and serve as governor.
At his debut rally, tonight, Walz told his story, also highlighting how his own family was impacted, by a critical issue to voters, this year. Access to fertility treatments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: And this gets personal for me and my family. When my wife and I decided to have children, we spent years going through infertility treatments. And I remember praying every night for a call for good news. The pit in my stomach when the phone rang and the agony when we heard that the treatments hadn't worked. So it wasn't by chance that when we welcomed our daughter into the world, we named her Hope.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight, the Democratic governor of Colorado, Jared Polis, who served in Congress, with Governor Walz, and works with him now as a fellow governor.
It's great to have you here, Governor.
Because when you look at this, he was probably one of the least known of the final contenders, to be her vice president. 71 percent of the country actually doesn't know much or anything about Governor Walz.
How do you think he goes about defining himself before Republicans do?
[21:25:00]
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well well-known and well-loved by his friends, who worked with him, his colleagues. I've known him over 16 years, worked alongside him in Congress, and then we were both elected governor the same year.
And I think as people learn about the types of things that he got done, in Minnesota, as governor, some of the things that we got done in Colorado, many Democratic states do. For instance, making sure that kids don't go to school hungry, that every kid gets a lunch in school, a free lunch, making sure that we can cap the cost of insulin for diabetics. These are things that he was able to get done.
Practical problem-solver. 24 years Army National Guard. I mean, what a great experience. Teacher. Armed Forces. And just a heck of a guy that I've been honored to call a friend, for a decade and a half.
COLLINS: Yes. And when you look at his record, because he has been in public service for so long, he's evolved politically, from when he was in Congress. He was more moderate then, voting in a more moderate way than a lot of Democrats, who were in the body at the time, staking out more conservative positions on guns. He talked about owning guns, tonight.
As governor, he's backed expansive progressive policies, like some of the ones you mentioned, free school lunch, expanded paid family leave. Others that you're seeing Republicans come out and talk about.
When you look at that record, and how he has evolved politically, what does that look like, and how does that work in the 2024 race?
POLIS: Well, look, he's an avid hunter and sportsman, and knows that commonsense gun safety laws that make our country safer don't interfere at all, with those who like to hunt and target-shoot, enjoy the great outdoors.
And I don't happen to hunt. And that's a hobby of his, and so many Americans, who can identify with where he's at.
And guess what? Many hunters also support commonsense gun safety laws, because they don't want criminals to get their hands on hoards of weapons that they can use for mass killings.
COLLINS: As governor, one thing that he's been talked about is he oversaw the state's response to the unrest that happened, that we saw in many cities, but especially Minneapolis, after the murder of George Floyd, by a Minneapolis Police Officer.
Walz was criticized for not sending out the National Guard sooner.
I just want everyone to listen to something he said back then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: I understand clearly, there is no trust in many of our communities.
But I'm asking you to help us. Help us use humane way to get the streets, to a place, where we can restore the justice, so that those that are expressing rage and anger and demanding justice are heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: This was the first thing that I heard about, from Republicans, as soon as Harris named him her running mate today. How does he talk about that, when it inevitably comes up on the campaign trail?
POLIS: Well, look, I happened to be governor during that summer. Many Republicans and Democrats were governor during that very difficult time. Because I, like Tim Walz, look, we support the right to peacefully protest. But when that goes over to damaging property, and even physical violence, that's where the line is crossed, and criminals should be prosecuted, like on January 6th, when criminals broke into the Capitol, and broke and entered, even attacked several members of law enforcement. That needs to be prosecuted.
We all support the right to free speech and, of course, being able to peacefully demonstrate. But when the line is crossed, like it was on January 6th, you have to hold those accountable, like Donald Trump responsible for what occurred.
COLLINS: Governor Jared Polis, a lot going on for your party. Thank you for joining us tonight.
POLIS: Thank you.
COLLINS: And tonight, we heard Governor Walz calling himself one of the best shots, when he was in Congress, connecting with fellow gun owners, also facing criticism for his shifting position on guns over the years.
We're going to talk about where he stands, on the issues that matter the most to voters, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With the Democratic ticket on stage, for the first time, it served as a chance, not only to introduce the country to Governor Walz. It also gave the new team a chance to define the issues.
Walz wasted no time, in talking about guns, specifically, in a way that a lot of politicians, frankly, don't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: By the way, as you heard, I was one of the best shots in Congress. But in Minnesota, we believe in the Second Amendment. But we also believe in commonsense gun violence laws.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Our team is back.
And we welcome in Meridith McGraw, who is a National Political Correspondent at POLITICO, and also the Author of the new book, out today, "Trump in Exile."
Meridith, great to have you here.
It is interesting to see how Walz is handling this, because typically, you wouldn't see a Democratic vice presidential candidate, maybe on stage, talking about that in his first remarks, as he's introducing himself to the country.
MERIDITH MCGRAW, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO, AUTHOR, "TRUMP IN EXILE": Well, Governor Walz is still such an unknown to so many people across the country.
And so, this is really his big moment, to share key parts of his biography, and also to try to introduce himself to people, who might be skeptical of Vice President Kamala Harris, that he can talk about things like his Midwest upbringing, the fact that he likes to go out and hunt, or the fact that he's a coach, and really try to endear some of those people, who may have been skeptics.
COLLINS: Yes, he tries to seem to be to heading off attacks that are obviously going to come from people, like Senator J.D. Vance. That was someone he went after, several times, tonight.
This is one thing that he said, as he was trying to define the person he's going to be on the debate stage with, potentially.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: J.D. Vance literally, literally wrote the foreword for the architect of the Project 2025 agenda.
(BOOING)
[21:35:00]
WALZ: Like all regular people I grew up with in the heartland, J.D. studied at Yale...
(LAUGHTER)
WALZ: ...had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He did write the foreword for Kevin Roberts' book, that's what he's talking about, who is the President of Heritage.
What does this look like for the campaign, the Trump campaign?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Walz versus Vance? I mean, look, I'll take the debate. I think J.D. is going to be fine in a debate against Walz.
I think they're trying to lean into a few issues that I don't fully understand. Initially, it was with their TV campaign, leaning into trying to look tougher on the border than Donald Trump. Now they have Walz out here, seemingly trying to look tougher on the Second Amendment than Trump and Vance.
They're never going to win these debates. I'm not -- I'm not sure why they're doing it. But I don't think they're going to win these debates. And I don't think a bunch of Second Amendment enthusiasts, in the middle of the country, are going to be rushing out to buy Kamala Harris hats. I know they were previewing those tonight. But that's just not going to happen.
And so, it seems like more talking point fodder than actual political strategy, to me.
COLLINS: OK. So maybe he doesn't win on guns, against two Republicans. But what about IVF?
AXELROD: Wait. Well just on the--
COLLINS: I mean, that was something he brought up tonight.
AXELROD: --on the point about guns, I don't think he was trying to be tougher than Republicans are on the Second Amendment. What he was saying is you can believe in the Second Amendment, and still believe in commonsense gun safety laws, like universal background checks.
JENNINGS: Can you also--
AXELROD: I think most Americans agree with that.
JENNINGS: Can you also believe in mandatory gun buyback programs? Because that's what Harris believes in. They're trying to -- they're trying to soften her previous radical positions. That's the point of it.
But when you have her in her own words? And this is the challenge for the Trump campaign, is not let him sidetrack you from these debates, where you've got her in her own words on that and many other issues.
ALLISON: I think I appreciate, though, what they're doing, and it's going on offense, is that they are going to tell their story, and not rely on the Trump campaign to define her.
If most people don't know who Governor Walz is, now is the time to introduce them to him, and let it do -- let him do it in his own words.
I agree with David. 60 percent of Americans believe in universal background checks. They believe in the new Office of Gun Violence Prevention. That is the first time they've ever had one in this office.
We know that gun violence is an epidemic in this country, and it needs to be solved. And most people believe in the reasonable solutions. We got a little bit of it done, under this, the first time in 30 years. We had bipartisan gun legislation after the Uvalde shooting.
But there still needs to be more. And I think that this is a conversation that you could have with Republicans and -- or, excuse me, some Republicans that might not want to support Trump, Independents and Democrats.
COLLINS: Well. And he -- the other issue, though, of course, IVF and abortion.
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: Abortion has been something that Governor Walz has talked about a lot. It's one of probably the weakest issues for Donald Trump and J.D. Vance.
This is what Walz said about that on stage tonight, and Harris as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: He has shown up to stand against these attacks long before he stood on the stage with me. After Roe was overturned, he was the first governor in the country to sign a new law that enshrined reproductive freedom as a fundamental right.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And with Tim Walz by my side, when I am president of the United States and we win majorities in the United States Congress, we will pass a bill to restore reproductive freedom, and I will proudly sign it into law.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Meridith, in your book, you have been reporting, for months, on Trump's life after he left the White House, and what that was like, but also, as he built back his political momentum, to run in this race.
He and J.D. Vance, and the reporting that you've done on their relationship, this is going to be an issue that's difficult for them. I mean, Trump calls abortion the a-word sometimes, before he actually gets to articulating policies about it on stage.
MCGRAW: Yes, and it's something that I covered in the book.
Trump, for years now, has talked about the issues that the Republican Party has had with messaging on abortion.
And J.D. Vance is somebody, who, in joining the ticket with Trump, he is having to go further to the middle than he's been. He has said that he doesn't support exceptions.
And so, that is going to be an issue for them.
COLLINS: Yes.
JENNINGS: Who's going to set the agenda? The VPs or the people running for president? Because Donald Trump's position is the Reagan position. He's pro-life. He believes in the three exceptions. He's been the leading voice in the party, supporting IVF. That's his position.
AXELROD: Well--
JENNINGS: It's a pretty moderate centrist position.
ALLISON: Except for the--
AXELROD: It's really interesting though.
MCGRAW: Well and I--
AXELROD: You want to take past positions of Kamala Harris'--
COLLINS: Yes, she's running for president.
AXELROD: --and hold her accounted for it. Yes.
ALLISON: So is Donald Trump.
AXELROD: Well, Donald Trump was pro-choice, for crying out loud. And then, he came all the way, and he bragged about appointing the court that took Roe down, and said he's the guy who did that. And now, he wants to sort of walk away from that. So, consistency is not exactly his strength.
[21:40:00]
MCGRAW: But I did ask Senator Vance this. I traveled with him, last Monday. And I asked -- we asked him about the issue of abortion. And he said, look, Republicans have nominated Donald Trump. And so, I'm going to follow him, and making sure that we push that it's states' rights.
ALLISON: If this election is about abortion?
COLLINS: Yes.
ALLISON: Democrats are going to win.
COLLINS: We will see.
A question has also been raised tonight. What has Donald Trump been doing during this VP rollout? His running mate's answer.
We're also going to hear from a top Trump ally, who will join me, right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Vice President Harris, and her new running mate, Minnesota governor, Tim Walz, following tonight's rally in Pennsylvania, with a campaign blitz across four more battleground states.
[21:45:00]
As for their competition, former President Donald Trump has one rally, this week, on his schedule, in solid red Montana.
His pick for vice president, J.D. Vance replied, earlier, to questions about what the schedule looks like, saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know the President is very busy over the next few days. One of the things you got to do is, of course, get out there and speak to people, and speak to reporters.
A final thing that he has to do, of course, is raise the resources. And I know the President is very busy doing exactly that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight, the Republican governor of North Dakota, Doug Burgum.
Governor, it's great to have you back here.
Why aren't we seeing Donald Trump out on the campaign trail more this week?
GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): Well, I think you're going to continue to see a lot of President Trump on the campaign trail. I'll be with him in Montana, on Friday, where he's got a big rally.
And yes, Montana is red. But it's also a super-important Senate seat. Republicans are going to win this fall with Tim Sheehy. So, I think he's not only going to win the election, and is out campaigning to do that, he's going to make sure he wins the Senate as well.
COLLINS: Yes, it is a big Senate seat.
And speaking of what this race is looking like overall, is how it's changing in the presidential race. Right after Walz was named to the ticket today, Trump responded in a fundraising text to supporters, saying that he will unleash hell on earth.
Republicans have been painting Tim Walz, as this extreme liberal. Bernie Sanders refuted that, to me earlier, when we were talking about this.
Do you really think that voters will view Governor Walz, this way, the six-year-old governor from Minnesota, that he's going to unleash hell on earth?
BURGUM: Well, I think that it's just such an unusual world we're in, right now, Kaitlan, where, I mean, we were thinking three weeks ago, when President Trump was going to win in a landslide and Joe Biden was never going to step down from running.
And then, here we are. And it's all honeymoon period about the bio of Kamala. And many people in the country don't know her or her background, much less Governor Walz's background. And there's only 90 days to the election.
So, this is completely unprecedented, where a party has switched horses, midstream, and they've done it not out of an advantage. They did it because they just decided, hey, we're throwing in the towel. We can't win.
Because President Trump was strong on the economy. He's strong on the border. He's strong on inflation and interest rates. All the things that are going to matter to voters when they go and vote this fall.
And so, it's like a complete reset, today, for the Democrats, who've had to, like, throw everything out, start over, new playbook, and try to reinvent two new candidates, who both have a track record of having very California-liberal policies throughout their careers.
COLLINS: Well, you just said, before Harris stepped down (ph), that this was probably going to be a landslide for Trump, if he was running against Biden. I mean, now that it is Harris and Walz, does that worry the Trump campaign?
BURGUM: Well, I don't think anybody's worried. I think everyone knows that there's this, like, it's all a weird, unusual honeymoon period, where we're all like, wow, there is 30 -- 90, days to the thing. And all of a sudden, there's a different team.
But now we know who Trump is running against. He's running against Harris. We know who the VP candidates are. And you've got someone, who ran our country successfully, and had a super-strong economy, and we had peace at the world and prosperity at home.
And now, Harris is going to have to try to defend the mess that Joe Biden has left us. And that's going to be very hard to do, because if you look at--
COLLINS: Yes.
BURGUM: --what's happening with the stock market, interest rates, it's not looking good in the next 90 days, that there's going to be an economic miracle that's going to somehow save the Harris campaign.
COLLINS: Well, I want to ask you, though, just on the prospect of this matchup here. Because Trump keeps posting about Joe Biden. And today, he's saying that Biden's going to come in and crash the Democratic convention, maybe, and try to take the nomination back, and run again.
I mean, does he realize that he's running against Vice President Harris, not Joe Biden anymore, moving on that that she -- he does have a different, maybe more formidable opponent in her?
BURGUM: Well, I think he knows exactly who he's running against. But we're also running against -- you know, Joe Biden was a creation of a ruling coalition. And that same ruling coalition of Democrats were the ones that said, hey, we're pulling the plug on Joe Biden.
Joe Biden didn't voluntarily do this. It was between the donors and the powers that be caused this to happen. And so, in some ways, this is one of the most undemocratic ways that any candidate--
COLLINS: Well-- BURGUM: --has ever been selected for President. And I think it's -- and I think that President Trump understands how unusual this is.
COLLINS: I would counter that by saying when the Republican primary was happening, which you ran in, we were hearing the RNC Chair, basically telling everyone to pack it up, and take it home, and leave the race to Trump before any voters had even cast their ballots. That's what Ronna McDaniel was saying. But I'll move on.
Because at least five times since Monday, and this is something I'm personally curious about, Donald Trump has been referring to Harris, on social media, as Kamabla, I guess is how you pronounce it. It's five posts on Monday.
[21:50:00]
Do you know where that came from, and what that nickname means?
BURGUM: I can't comment on that.
But I do know that when voters are making a decision, they're going to end up voting, in many ways, their pocketbook.
And if you go to these swing states, where they're going to decide the election, because we know that there's about 43 states that are either leaning heavily red, or heavily blue, as they always do.
But in those swing states, in those suburban counties, people are going to say, what's -- you know, am I better off today than I was four years ago?
COLLINS: But--
BURGUM: And they're going to have to say no, because whether it's -- whether it's crime, whether it's inflation, whether it's interest rates, whatever it is, they're worried about that.
And you've got the -- the Harris-Walz campaign is not talking about any policies about how they're going to change it. If they're going to spend the next 90 days, defending Joe Biden's track record, on the economy, on the border, and on--
COLLINS: Yes.
BURGUM: --on the wars, overseas. It's a losing battle -- they have been dealt a losing hand. It doesn't matter how interesting their bios are. It's a losing hand for them, on the issues that matter the most.
COLLINS: OK. But you don't know where the nickname came from either. Because it is a mystery to us.
Governor Doug Burgum, thank you for coming on. Great to have you.
BURGUM: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. Vice President Harris is hitting Trump, where it hurts, on his own Truth Social media site, comparing, guess what? Of course, crowd sizes. We'll tell you how, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the Harris campaign is meeting Donald Trump, where he often posts the most, on Truth Social, posting these pictures, and trying to troll him about the crowd sizes, at this same arena, where he held a rally, a few weeks ago, in Philadelphia.
Obviously, Ashley Allison, joining Truth Social, the side-by-side crowd shots, which is like, truly what happened, on day two of the Trump administration, with his inauguration crowd sizes. What do you make of the strategy by the Harris campaign?
ALLISON: Perhaps they're following my motto. Unlike the former first lady, when they go low, we go high, my feeling is when they go low, we match energy.
And so, I think that the Harris campaign is poking a little fun at the -- no one cares more about crowd size than Donald Trump. And so, they're matching his energy, and just poking a little fun. And we know this is driving him crazy. Like, this is not going to -- what's going to win an election. But in a moment like this, they're having a good time with it.
COLLINS: Well, they're posting pictures of the crowd sizes. They're also going online. And we're seeing the fundraising numbers of what they're trying to do with that. They're also -- the merch, we saw that today.
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: It was the camouflage hat that matches what Governor Walz was wearing, when he got the call from Harris that he was the pick. You just informed us those hats are now sold-out.
I mean, Meridith, a lot of this is kind of meeting Trump, where he often is, and the moments that he uses and touts on the campaign trail. In addition to all the attention that this rally got, tonight, it was carried live, by every channel.
MCGRAW: And those are metrics that Donald Trump pays attention to, things like ratings, crowd sizes. It's things that he likes to talk to -- and talk about as well.
And I think throughout this week, we know that Senator Vance is going to be following Harris, at every campaign stop, and following along, to push the Trump campaign's own messaging against Walz, as he makes this debut.
COLLINS: Scott?
JENNINGS: Every network carried every single thing a Democrat said? I'm stunned to hear this news. They have time for trolling. They have time for hats. They have time to stand in front of teleprompters. But they do not have time to come here, and talk to you, or any other journalists.
When Kamala Harris finally screws up the courage, to come and sit down with a reporter, I'll be impressed with this rollout. Until then, everybody's good in an environment, where you're not being pushed.
ALLISON: I think she'll -- she's going to do a live interview, on a major network. She now -- we're talking 16 days here. Her boss had to step down. She had to get the nomination. She then had to select her vice president.
I bet in the next few days or so, she will do a large -- and again, it might take a different form than we are normally used to, because we are in a different era of a campaign. But both of them will do interviews.
COLLINS: Well and--
ALLISON: For sure.
COLLINS: --as always, the invitation is out there. We would love to have her here.
JENNINGS: I hope she comes here.
COLLINS: Scott, thank you for that helpful point.
JENNINGS: Yes.
COLLINS: I'm not sure you're our best messenger to try to get her on the -- on the show.
JENNINGS: What's that supposed to mean?
COLLINS: But Scott, in terms of actually seeing Harris and Trump side- by-side, which was -- the most pivotal moment in this campaign yet, was seeing Joe Biden and Trump side-by-side. Is it something that Trump should agree to, and not just in certain conditions? And same for both of them.
JENNINGS: Debate? Yes, they should debate. I think they should debate. I don't know how they're going to work it out. I expect them to debate.
And I think they should debate more than once, because she hasn't faced any voters. She hasn't faced any scrutiny whatsoever. I think Trump ought to put her through her paces on a debate. She deserves -- the American people deserve to see her answer a few questions before we vote in November.
COLLINS: Meridith, you've done a ton of reporting for this, as we're talking, your book, "Trump in Exile." What is your sense of what you're hearing from the Trump campaign, about where they stand on that, right now? MCGRAW: Well, I think Trump and J.D. Vance, they're going to be out there, and pushing back as best they can.
COLLINS: Yes. And debates, they feel -- does they -- do they think Trump will do a debate?
[22:00:00]
MCGRAW: I -- yes. Trump has been pushing for debate with Fox News. Nothing has been finalized yet.
And J.D. Vance has said that he's going to be happy to debate Walz, as he said he's happy to debate him, although he's going to wait until after he secures the Democratic nomination.
COLLINS: Yes. And of course, now he officially will be that.
Ashley Allison.
Scott Jennings.
Meridith McGraw, her new book, "Trump in Exile" out now. You can get it. Everyone should read it. I am.
Thank you all so much for joining us, on a very busy hour.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
