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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris, Walz & Vance Rally Across The Midwest; GOP Rep. Crenshaw To Trump: "Stick To Policy"; Taylor Swift's Austria Concerts Canceled Over Alleged Terror Plot. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 07, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We should point out that we've reached out to the Department of Public Safety for comment, but we have not heard back.
And we also asked Arredondo and his lawyer, if that trial, that criminal trial that he's facing, will take place in Uvalde, or if they will ask for a change of venue.
And his lawyer told us that, right now, they're inclined to keep the trial -- not ask for a change of venue, to have that trial in Uvalde, so that the people there can hear what Pete Arredondo has to say, during the course of that trial.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Ed Lavandera for us, in Texas. I have to say, that was an incredible discussion. Thank you so much.
"THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
It's a battle for the Midwest. The new Democratic ticket wrapping day one on the campaign trail, crossing paths and planes with a solo J.D. Vance.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump is going on the attack, slamming Tim Walz, over how Walz handle the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis. We have audio, tonight, of a 2020 phone call, though, in which Trump is heaping praise on the Minnesota governor, for his response, despite what Trump is saying today.
And also, tonight, three Taylor Swift concerts have been canceled, over an alleged terrorist plot that was foiled. We have new reporting on the latest.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Moments ago, Vice President Harris, and Minnesota governor, Tim Walz, on stage, for their second rally of the day. The Democratic ticket working the crowds into the evening, on their first full day of campaigning, together, zeroing in on the win, or go-home states of Wisconsin and Michigan.
Half of Team Trump did the same, but in reverse today, with Republican vice presidential nominee, J.D. Vance right on their tail with his own swing, through the Midwest.
And speaking of mirror images, look at this. The Harris campaign took a page, right out of Donald Trump's playbook, tonight, and held tonight's Detroit rally, at an airport hangar, where the thousands of supporters, who were there waiting, watched as the new Democratic ticket pulled up in Air Force Two.
Now that's a move that Trump himself used, when he was in office, with Air Force One, capitalizing on the trappings of the presidency.
But this time, it comes with Beyonce songs blaring, when the plane pulls up, and a level of enthusiasm that Democrats have not seen for years, in what is said to be the largest campaign event that Harris has had so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Someone who suggests we should terminate the Constitution of the United States should never again stand behind the Seal of the President of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: We believe in the promise of America.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And are we ready to fight for it?
(APPLAUSE)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These ideas that they're putting out there, they are weird as hell. No one's asking for it. No one's asking for it. We're asking a fair shot. We're asking for health care and child care. We're asking for an education. We're asking for safety in our streets.
And we're going to get it, because that's what this campaign is about. It's about moving forward.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: At one point earlier, both the Harris and Vance planes were on the actual same tarmac. You could see them within sight of one another.
After Vance landed in Wisconsin, right after Air Force Two had landed at that airport, he actually took a walk over to Harris' plane, while she was out campaigning,
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I just wanted to check out my future plane. But I also wanted to go say hello to the Vice President, and ask her why Kamala Harris refuses, why does she refuse to answer questions from the media?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As for the candidate, at the top of the Republican ticket, Donald Trump, is off the campaign trail, I should note, until Friday, when he is set to stomp in deep-red Montana.
With me tonight, at the table.
CNN Political Commentator, S.E. Cupp.
Former New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio.
And Democratic strategist, Keith Boykin.
It's great to have you all here.
Mayor, just watching this rally, in Detroit, that just wrapped up, a few moments ago. The Harris campaign says that was the biggest event that she's had. They are saying there's 15,000 people there. I mean, the level of energy that we're seeing between last night, and tonight, something that your party has not been very familiar with, on the campaign trail, the presidential campaign trail, at least, I should note.
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We have missed it for a while. That's the truth.
What Kamala Harris is doing is amazing. It is a testament to her charisma, but it's also a testament to the team she's put together, including Tim Walz. It's really interesting to see a vice presidential pick generate this kind of extra energy boost.
We all talk about do no harm with the pick.
COLLINS: Yes.
DE BLASIO: Or maybe have an impact on a particular state.
[21:05:00]
That pairing is actually quite magical. And it's interesting. When you go back to, for example, when Bill Clinton chose Al Gore, there was a palpable connection between the two. You could feel an energy. And it said something about where we could go as a country. These two who ostensibly seem real different on the surface, their bond speaks to actually, what a united, positive, forward-looking country could be.
So, I think Kamala Harris has done something brilliant here, more than I think any of us realize with a pick, who just says the message, not only in words, but in the whole atmosphere, he creates with her.
COLLINS: Keith, what do you make of what you're seeing, watching these two rallies?
And, I mean, I've been to a million Trump rallies, more than I could count.
KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right.
COLLINS: It's that's the kind of stuff you see at a Trump rally, those levels of people. I think it was 8,000 yesterday. 15,000, today. I know Trump has been bothered by the momentum, from what I've heard from sources. But this is Trump-level enthusiasm at these kinds of events.
BOYKIN: It is. And there's been an energy shift in the race. I was in Philadelphia, yesterday, at that rally. I think that I was told 10,000 people were there. Every seat was filled, all the way up to the rafters.
And Trump had been at that same location, and he didn't fill that arena at Temple University. So, I think he's really got to be very upset.
He's watching Kamala Harris steal the headlines, steal the enthusiasm, steal the attention, getting the news stories, getting live TV coverage, raising $36 million, or $31 million, or whatever it was, in the past 24 hours, on top of the $310 million she raised last month. These are the things that Donald Trump was supposed to be doing, supposed to be leading in.
So, I think it's really exciting. And as Bill said, we haven't seen this in the Democratic Party since 2008, when Barack Obama was the candidate.
COLLINS: Well, and S.E., watching Harris herself.
I mean, obviously there's so much focus on Governor Walz. I don't think that that is always going to be there. It's because he is new to the ticket.
But watching her on the campaign trail, given we saw her four years ago, when she was running in the Democratic primary. Take, for example, just tonight. There were some protesters at her event.
Listen to how she handled this protester, interrupting her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Because we believe in democracy. Everyone's voice matters. But I am speaking now.
If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking.
(APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's a boss.
And listen, I think she has come into her element. And I know that watching her in 2020, try to maneuver through a Democratic primary, I don't think she was that comfortable, and obviously didn't do that well. I think she is where she wanted to be, and shines, now that that's all kind of behind her.
And what they are remembering, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, is that this campaign is about the voters. And all the energy in their rooms are reflecting that.
What's happening on the right, with Trump and Vance, is it's become all about them. When J.D. Vance goes out, to talk about Tim Walz's military record, he makes it about himself, and his military record. When Kamala Harris' plane lands on the tarmac, it's about him. He wants to go. It's his plane.
They have forgotten the voters in this. Because they're so thrown off, with the new ticket, they don't know how to match the energy. They don't know how to attack them. So, they've turned inward. It's become about petty grievances and retribution for themselves.
And it's crazy, because Walz was chosen to do what Vance was chosen to do, speak to these Midwestern rural, blue-collar, Rust Belt state voters, about the things that Democrats have forgotten about them. And Tim Walz, I think, is doing a much better job of that so far, speaking to those voters.
J.D. Vance is talking about things that swing state voters don't care about. He's telling them to be angry about things they've never even thought of, like childless cat ladies. It's a completely different vision. And that hope and change that became a little hackneyed, during 2008, was real then. It is real now. That's what I'm seeing again.
COLLINS: Yes. And he did -- J.D. Vance was taking questions from reporters, today, at his events. They were smaller than the ones that I was watching. He did talk about immigration, fentanyl, those issues that are core parts of his message.
But there was another moment, at this Harris rally, multiple moments, where this has happened now, where it's the chants that we're familiar from Donald Trump, in 2016, the lock-her-up chants. And now, it is a lock-him-up chant, whenever they are talking about Trump's crimes, the fact that he's a convicted felon.
But how Harris handled this moment really stood out to me. She's done this three times now. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD CHANTS "LOCK HIM UP")
HARRIS: Well hold on.
(CROWD CHANTS "LOCK HIM UP")
HARRIS: Hold on.
(CROWD CHANTS "LOCK HIM UP")
HARRIS: Hold on.
(CROWD CHANTS "LOCK HIM UP")
HARRIS: You know what? Here.
(CROWD CHANTS "LOCK HIM UP")
HARRIS: Hold on. Here's the thing. The courts are going to handle that. We're going to beat him in November.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: We're going to beat him in November.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: You know what? The courts are going to handle that part of it. What we're going to do is beat him in November.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:10:00]
HARRIS: Hold on. Hold on. This campaign, our campaign, is not just a fight against Donald Trump. Our campaign, this campaign, is a fight for the future.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Is that how she should be handling that?
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: Do you think that's the right move?
DE BLASIO: I'll tell you, there's a couple of reasons why it is.
First of all, it is presidential. It is leaderly. She is showing a sane head, someone who is not trying to get that kind of vengeful negative approach into the discussion. She's actually trying to bring it back to the people, bring it back to the future. It's obviously a clear contrast to the kind of extremism and pettiness of Trump.
The message is coming through, however. Convicted felon. She's artfully -- you know, the crowd is saying what they're saying, and that's pure passion. But she's allowing that message through, but also reminding people, we are a party that believes in due process, believes in the rule of law. I think she's handling that perfectly.
But now what's real interesting is the convicted felon piece comes back on the table, more strongly than ever, because of her background as a prosecutor, because she's so measured, and neither Trump nor Vance can meet that tonality.
And so, it's actually bringing up something that a lot of moderate voters, we saw this over and over in the polling, even Republican moderate voters. Say this guy gets convicted, we're going to think twice. This piece is now going to become more and more central, to how people make their decision.
COLLINS: How does that appeal to voters, who are in Michigan, and in Wisconsin, listening to these messages?
BOYKIN: Well, I think it shows that she's a serious leader. As Bill was saying, she takes democracy seriously. She doesn't think that you just use a campaign rally, just to gin up your base. But you also have to think about the impact on America.
When Donald Trump, in 2016, started his campaign, people were not only chanting "Lock her up" about Hillary Clinton, even though she had not been convicted of a crime, as he now has, but they were also -- he was also encouraging people to attack people, who were in his audience. He was saying, in the old days, we used to lead them out in a stretcher, and things like that.
I mean, that's the type of outrageous rhetoric that leads to violence, in our political discourse. And I think she's wise to tamp that down, and to focus on, how do we be -- how can we be responsible while still giving red meat to the voters?
The other thing is, though, they haven't figured out what to say against her. The Republicans are, they're flailing all about, trying to figure out what to say. Oh my god, what should we say? We don't like her laugh. We're talking about her sexual history. They're talking about her racial identity.
All these things, as S.E. said, have no relevance to what the voters are concerned about. They're concerned about jobs and health care and good schools. They're concerned about whether you're going to be able to clean up the environment, have clean water comes out of their pipes when they turn on the faucet, in Michigan. They're concerned about criminal justice in Michigan, places like that too. They're not concerned about these trivial issues that the Republicans are raising.
So, if Donald Trump and J.D. Vance want to be serious candidates, they need to get into the ball game, and start acting like it.
COLLINS: S.E., let me get your reaction, quickly, to President Biden. We heard from him, today. His first sit-down interview that he's done, since he exited the 2024 race. This was with Robert Costa of CBS News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT COSTA, CHIEF ELECTION & CAMPAIGN CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS: Are you confident that there will be a peaceful transfer of power in January 2025?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If Trump wins? No, I'm not confident at all -- I mean, if Trump loses, I'm not confident at all. He means what he says. We don't take him seriously. He means it. All the stuff about, if we lose, there'll be a bloodbath. It'll have to be a stolen election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUPP: This is a perfect role for Joe Biden. Running for president was not. I think we saw that. But doing the: I know I've been there. I was there at one of these transfers of power. I know what Donald Trump is capable of, and I know what he's thinking, the danger, the doom. This is exactly what he should be talking about, and let Kamala Harris and Tim Walz be happy warriors, and hopeful, forward-looking, future- talking. It's a perfect role for him.
And I think one, in these, you know, for his prepared, small interview environments, that he can pull off pretty well. He speaks from experience about how close we were to democracy breaking in 2020. It's the perfect, perfect role for him.
COLLINS: Yes. And you brought up J.D. Vance and the military records. We're going to talk about that also, because that's a big thing that that's happening right -- or today, with Tim Walz and J.D. Vance.
The panel is going to stick around. So, don't worry. They will be back to talk about that.
Up next, though, Donald Trump is speaking out today, and attacking Harris' new running mate, hitting Governor Walz, on how he handled the George Floyd protests and riots that happened in Minneapolis, after his death, after his murder.
We're going to tell you though what Trump is saying today, and how it is undercut by audio of what he said then.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Even Donald Trump once had good things to say about Kamala Harris' new running mate. CNN has obtained new audio, tonight, of the former President praising Minnesota governor, Tim Walz.
Now, some context. This was during a 2020 call between top Trump officials, Trump and governors, who across the U.S., who were dealing with protests and riots, after the murder of George Floyd.
On that call, on this audio that you're about to hear, Trump praises how Walz handled the unrest, specifically in Minneapolis.
[21:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know Governor Walz is on the phone, and we spoke, and I fully agreed with the way he handled it the last couple of days. I asked him to do that.
I think Tim is on the phone now, Tim Walz. Again, I was very happy with the last couple of days, Tim. You called up big numbers and the big numbers knocked them out so fast, it was like bowling pins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is what Trump said, then. It undercuts, though, what Trump said just this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I helped him very much during the riots, because his house was surrounded. He was very concerned, very, very concerned that it was going to get out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump also recently repeated the false claim that he sent the National Guard and not the Governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I couldn't get your governor to act. So, I sent in the National Guard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As we know, it was actually Governor Walz, who's a retired guardsman himself, who deployed the National Guard in May of 2020.
The Governor was criticized and questioned for how long it took him to do so, at the time. You see these images here, as fires were burning and stores were being looted. The police were responding with rubber bullets, and tear gas.
And even the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis, accused Governor Walz of not taking their request seriously enough, until it was too late. He told the Star Tribune at the time, quote, "We expressed the seriousness of the situation. The urgency was clear... He did not say yes. He said he would consider it."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: I will speak the truth. And the truth is that on Wednesday, around 06:00 p.m., I called the governor and asked for the National Guard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now at that time, the National Guard wasn't activated until the next day. Walz did accept some responsibility for that delay. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: I will assume responsibility. If the -- if the issue was is that the state should have moved faster. Yes, that is on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to go straight to THE SOURCE, tonight, with CNN's Correspondent, Omar Jimenez, who was there, in Minnesota, in 2020, when all of this happened. You may remember, he was arrested on live TV, along with his CNN crew, released about an hour later, as he was covering all this.
Omar, it's great to have your perspective on this, given you were actually on the ground.
We heard from the Trump campaign, today, responding to this audio. They said that he was only complimentary because Walz had acted by June 1st. That Trump was always frustrated by his response time.
Can you just tell us what you actually saw on the ground?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, as far as what the campaign says, that could be true.
But the reality is that there are -- there were legitimate questions, as you mentioned, over how quickly Governor Walz responded to what we were seeing on the ground. And we look at the timeline here.
May 25th, that's when George Floyd was killed.
May 26th, that's when we start seeing protests. We start seeing clashes with police.
It was then the night of the 27th, that's when we started seeing fires that were being set, widespread of those images, across the city. I snapped a picture.
That one that you're seeing on your screen there is actually from the next night, from the 28th into the 29th.
But from the 27th into the 28th, that night is also crucial, because that's when the Mayor says he first requested the National Guard to come.
Now, an after-action report done by a third-party said that there seemed to be some sort of communications breakdown, between local and state officials, that night, where state officials thought that local officials weren't being specific enough in their requests. Local officials thought they had done everything they needed to. Bottom line, the National Guard wasn't activated until the next day.
Now, the 28th, the reason why that's important, was the night of the 28th was when the Third Precinct burned. That's sort of--
COLLINS: Even when the National Guard had been deployed? JIMENEZ: The National Guard had been activated by that afternoon. But over the course of that evening, they essentially were getting into place. So, while they were activated, they weren't fully necessarily deployed.
Now, it wasn't until the next morning, they said, we had gotten 500 in place by the next morning. But again, that image of the police precinct burning sort of became that central image.
And while the National Guard had been activated at that point, their full presence wasn't -- wasn't on the ground, and realized. And I think that is where a lot of the criticism comes, and some even asking if the National Guard had been deployed, in its full sense before that, would that police precinct still be?
COLLINS: Yes, not just the police precinct. The businesses that had--
JIMENEZ: For sure. For sure.
COLLINS: --their businesses burned to the ground.
When you hear from the Trump campaign, their framing of this. They're saying, well, Walz was MIA. He was letting this happen, watching it all kind of happen.
What does the governor's office say about all of those claims?
JIMENEZ: Well, the governor's office say they acted as soon as they were presented with requests from local officials.
So, the spokesman for the governor's office, at the time, told us that they acknowledged the requests, the morning of May 28th. And that is sort of when the pieces began getting put in place. But they have also emphasized that it was the governor, who deployed the National Guard. It was not President Trump.
And the activation of the National Guard came hours, well before Trump even began to start tweeting and threatening that, oh, if nothing changes, I'm going to come in and do something.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Yes. When we look at all this. And I know you've talked to the Governor, at the time.
JIMENEZ: Yes.
COLLINS: He actually apologized to you after your arrest.
I mean, we were hearing from him in these daily press conferences. We were watching all this closely.
I looked at what he said, at the time, especially in response to the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis. And he was saying, this is a challenge that you deal with as a leader. It was the first time we were dealing with this, figuring it out in real-time. What do people in the state say? How did they view this, and how he handled it?
JIMENEZ: Well, I think, in large part, there's a little bit of division, and some of it along partisan lines, where, of course, as you can imagine, many Republicans in the state have criticized him heavily.
Others, allies of his have said, look, he was doing the best he could with the information he had at the time. This was a difficult time for everyone.
And as you played earlier, Walz has acknowledged, even years later, that we are doing the best we could with what we had at the time.
Now, as far as any sort of -- any sort of full accountability, he had the ultimate form of accountability, which was, it was left up to the voters, in the state, to decide whether to reelect him.
So, regardless of how he handled it, and how it was handled, he was reelected in 2022, pretty handily. And so, if there was criticisms, among certain people, it certainly wasn't enough to keep him out of office.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point.
JIMENEZ: Yes.
COLLINS: Omar, great to have your perspective, since you were actually there on the ground, witnessing it all.
JIMENEZ: Of course.
COLLINS: Thank you very much.
Up next. Donald Trump's allies have been all over the air waves, in recent days, with similar pleas, from the Republicans, for the Republican nominee. They want him to focus.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some of Donald Trump's staunchest allies are now, laser- focused on the former President's lack of focus, it seems to be, out on the campaign trail and off of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think you're going to see a very focused Donald Trump and a Republican effort, from everybody, to focus on the policy choices.
Our problems are personality. Their problems are policy choices.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Republicans need to remember, we need to offer our own vision, not just criticize the other side.
KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R) FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Stick to the policies, and we will actually gain seats, and win the Senate as well.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Contrasting the Biden-Harris record, and Harris' record from the first time she ran for President, to the Trump-era record. That's a contrast, that Donald Trump will win every day of the week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If he makes it, of course. The question is, do those Republicans have a point?
My source tonight is a Republican congressman, from Texas. Dan Crenshaw.
Congressman, it's great to have you.
Do you share those concerns that we just heard from fellow Republicans, that Donald Trump isn't focused enough, on the issues that voters actually care about, right now?
REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): Yes. I couldn't see who was on the screen. But I can -- I recognize their voices. And they're pretty smart, most of them senators. And they're right. The advice they're giving is correct. Stick to policy.
Joe Biden was unpopular for a lot of reasons. He couldn't give a speech. He was seen as feeble, and too old, and suffering from cognitive disabilities at this point. But people also didn't like the policies. Didn't like the policies a whole lot, actually. And Harris is directly tied to that. Walz has -- is also directly tied to that, if not more progressive than even the Biden policies were then (ph).
So, people have to remember that. We have to remind them of that. This has to be an election based on policy differences. That's what every election should be based on, by the way.
COLLINS: Do you think Donald Trump is doing enough, though, to make that point to voters? I mean, he's not even out on the campaign trail, this week, until Friday. He's going to Montana, which, as you know, is not exactly a swing state.
CRENSHAW: Yes. I mean, look, all of this, in the Democrat Party, happened pretty quickly.
You'd have to ask somebody from the Trump campaign team what their plan is. I am no longer on those inside circles. So, I don't know what the plan is.
But we've got a few months, all right? There's an assessment going on. I think Donald Trump liked his chances, rightfully so, against Joe Biden. It'll be a little tougher against Kamala Harris. But I will say she was the Republicans' second favorite choice, if they're going to pick somebody, because she is tied to all those bad policies. She is tied to a lot of disasters, especially at the border, these things that voters really care about.
COLLINS: Yes. Interesting to see -- hear you say that you do think she's a tougher candidate than Joe Biden would be. Lindsey Graham echoed that sentiment, when I talked to him the other night.
Donald Trump is not out on the campaign trail. We are seeing Senator J.D. Vance, though. He basically did the reverse of what we saw Vice President Harris and Governor Walz do today.
You are both veterans. You were a Navy SEAL.
I want you to listen to something that Senator Vance said today, about Governor Walz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: As a Marine, who served his country in uniform, when the United States Marine Corps, when the United States of America, asked me to go to Iraq, to serve my country, I did it. I did what they asked me to do it, and I did it honorably. And I'm very proud of that service.
When Tim Walz was asked by his country to go to Iraq, you know what he did? He dropped out of the Army, and allowed his unit to go without him, a fact that he's been criticized for aggressively by a lot of the people that he served with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, to be clear, Walz actually retired two months before his unit received those deployment orders to go. As you know, Congressman, he served in the Army National Guard for 24 years.
And I just wonder, as a fellow veteran, if you're OK with one veteran questioning another's service, as we just saw there?
[21:35:00]
CRENSHAW: I am generally OK with it. It does depend on the situation. I need more facts on this particular little spat, because the reality is, neither of them have a very storied career.
There are -- there are questions about Walz's career. There are questions on when he decided to retire. There's questions about a demotion. I need those questions answered, before I go full tilt on questioning somebody's service. So, that's where I leave it there.
COLLINS: But, I mean, it's becoming this kind of Stolen Valor phenomenon that's happening here, with people questioning Walz's record. I mean, he did serve. You do know that, that he did serve in the National Guard for 24 years.
CRENSHAW: Yes.
COLLINS: He enlisted after he turned 17.
CRENSHAW: Well-- COLLINS: I mean, what is your view of that?
CRENSHAW: Well, sure, for -- well, I mean, well, for one thing -- for one thing, he has said, for instance, like the talking about gun control, talking about a weapon that he carried into war. But he's never really been on any combat deployments. He's never really been to war. As a combat veteran, like, that actually -- that actually does kind of frustrate us.
So, it is worth the criticism. It's not -- it's not out of bounds. But it does have to be true, and it should be within reason. And I'm in the process of figuring out who Walz even is, let alone his military record.
COLLINS: Yes. And we saw that the Harris campaign put out a statement on Walz, saying, guns that I carried in combat. Obviously, he wasn't actually ever in a combat zone. But he did do work with guns, as being in the military for 24 years.
Let me ask you about the Republican ticket, though, because you have previously expressed concern, about Vance being the pick as Trump's interview -- this is in an interview that you did with David Axelrod. I wonder if any of his campaign appearances, recently, have changed that for you.
CRENSHAW: No. Look, I mean, I'm not really -- I'm not negative on J.D. Vance. I'm not positive on it. I'm not part of that conversation, when Trump gets to pick that VP.
COLLINS: Yes, but you're a Republican--
CRENSHAW: And I don't now why they said a lot (ph).
COLLINS: --who has an interest in the ticket doing well.
CRENSHAW: Yes. Yes. I am. And I don't -- I don't -- I don't think it hurts the ticket. I don't think it adds new voters. I think the people who like J.D. Vance already like Trump. Now that's, I think -- I don't -- I don't think that's a controversial thing to say. That seems pretty obvious.
In the end, people are voting for the presidential candidates. I think the VP pick was a little bit more of an important decision, for Kamala Harris. But for Trump, like, the base is already energized, for Trump. He doesn't -- that's not going to change.
And people, generally speaking, in any presidential election, they're looking at the top of the ticket. The vice president is an afterthought. There's very few fence-sitters who, I think, make decisions based on the vice presidential pick.
COLLINS: I think that's fair. I think Donald Trump himself has said that. That the vice president doesn't really matter, talking about what voters assess, something that J.D. Vance agreed with.
But in the sense of what the vice president -- presidential pick, is there to do, which is to do no harm. Maybe they're not bringing in wide swaths of voters, but certainly not there to hurt.
How do you think that J.D. Vance has done, as the main surrogate, which he is right now, on the campaign trail, for Donald Trump? Is he being helpful for Republicans?
CRENSHAW: I don't think he's hurting. You also might mistake me for somebody who's watched every single thing he said. I haven't. But my intuition so far is that, no, he's not hurting.
Part of the job of a vice presidential candidate is to be the attack dog, and it appears to be that's what he's doing. Although, look, you could argue that's not their job. But that's clearly the role that Trump wants him to play.
And, again, I don't know what their strategy is. I think they're developing one, right? There's been a lot of upheaval, in the Democrat Party, as of recently. Pretty historic stuff.
So, I think a new strategy is developing. I think one needs -- a new strategy needs to develop, and it needs to be based on policy issues, because I think they're very clear-cut. And I think we've got a lot of arguments to make as Republicans, as to why we're better at governing than the Democrats are.
COLLINS: Yes. They--
CRENSHAW: These are the kind of arguments we should be making.
COLLINS: But they haven't really developed a strategy yet. It doesn't seem like. And this is including what we see publicly, what I hear from sources. Why do you think the Trump-Vance campaign is struggling to adjust to this? Because there's not a lot of time left before the election.
CRENSHAW: I don't know that struggling is the right word. I feel like this massive change, in the Democrat ticket, happened like five minutes ago. Just in political terms, it happened like just in -- just in few minutes ago. So, I'm not sure struggling is the right word.
And I don't think it's rocket science either. Focus on the policies. Focus on immigration policy. Focus on the immediate changes that occurred under a Biden-Harris administration, the immediate uptick. I mean very, very large swing and uptick in illegal immigration, in inflation, in the downturn of the economy.
And wars breaking out, because our deterrence had failed, because our enemies thought that our President really wasn't up to the task. I really doubt they think Kamala Harris is up to the task either.
[21:40:00]
So, you can just compare these things side-by-side. Take all the personalities out of it. Take all the campaigning out of it. Take all this dumb tit-for-tat that I have a hard time answering about, because I really don't pay attention to it. Take it all out of the equation and just focus on the policies. That's my advice to the campaign. That's what I'm going to be doing. And that's what Republicans--
COLLINS: Lindsey--
CRENSHAW: --should be doing, generally.
COLLINS: Lindsey Graham -- you used the word personality. Lindsey Graham said he thinks Republicans have a personality problem. Do you agree with that?
CRENSHAW: I don't know what context he said it in.
COLLINS: Regarding Donald Trump as a candidate, essentially, saying that they have a personality problem. He was arguing Democrats have a policy problem. But obviously, personality looms over this race in a big way.
CRENSHAW: Right. Right. So, yes. So, what he means is, I think swing voters, they just don't like Donald Trump. And they -- they don't. They don't -- they don't know -- they -- just something about him, it's personality. And I would tell them, that's a lot less important than the policies that he's going to put in place that actually affect your life.
Like, fine, you don't like his mean tweets. You don't like the way he conducts himself sometimes. But when it comes down to the actual policies, and how it affects your life, how it affects your ability to buy gasoline, to afford your basic economic necessities, and necessities to expand your business, within a -- with a tax code that's actually friendly to--
COLLINS: Yes.
CRENSHAW: --to growth and entrepreneurship? That's going to be better for you.
COLLINS: Well, to that, I'll note that Bill Barr did tell me that he doesn't think Trump can actually get his policies done, essentially, because his personality gets in the way.
Congressman Dan Crenshaw, thank you for joining tonight.
CRENSHAW: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. It is the debate over debates that is now rolling on. Both Trump and J.D. Vance now saying they want to debate Vice President Harris.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We are 90 days away from Election Day. And the big question tonight that still remains is whether or not we'll see another presidential debate with a very different presidential ticket, right now, before then.
My political experts are back with me.
S.E. Cupp. Trump seemed to be leaning toward yes, today. I mean, it feels like every day it's different. A week ago, we were talking about him saying he wasn't going to do it.
But listen to what he said, when he called into a very lengthy interview, on Fox & Friends, this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know how she debates. I hear she is sort of a nasty person, but not a good--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TRUMP: --good debater. But we'll see, because we'll be debating her, I guess, in the pretty near future. It's going to be announced fairly soon. But we'll be debating her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK. So, we don't know when or where--
CUPP: Right.
COLLINS: --or who's moderating.
CUPP: Right.
COLLINS: I mean, it could be one of you at this table.
CUPP: I doubt it.
DE BLASIO: Hurray.
COLLINS: But it does -- it did sound today, and what I've heard from people around him is this debate is going to happen between the two of them.
CUPP: I think they have to, or they look, risk looking scared of her and them.
And listen, we don't know how that will go. Everything that Walz and Harris are doing now is making Trump and Vance look very small. I think. They have energy. They're happy. They're excited. And everything that Vance and Trump are doing makes them look angry and mean and dark.
When they get on a debate stage, though, and they have to defend their records, and they have to explain an agenda, we'll see what happens. I mean, Trump is a very pugilistic debater. He's not -- he's not bad at it, depending on how you want to grade this. OK. We're all going to acknowledge the lies. But he has a way of putting people on their heels.
We'll see. I wouldn't take anything for granted that she's going to sweep the floor or anything like that.
COLLINS: Yes, I think we've learned don't take anything for granted--
CUPP: Don't.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: --when it comes to debates--
CUPP: No.
COLLINS: --the last time around.
DE BLASIO: For sure.
COLLINS: Mr. Mayor. What do you think?
DE BLASIO: Well, a couple things. First of all, he now needs a debate. Before, I think they were disoriented by Harris. They're disoriented by Walz. But now, they need a debate, because they're losing altitude so intensely.
The debate against Joe Biden obviously was creating massive momentum for Trump. He could have said, let me just ride on that momentum, sort of as it were a Rose-Garden strategy. Now he can't afford it anymore.
CUPP: Yes.
DE BLASIO: He's just losing too much ground.
But the second piece about how it will go. Here's the problem. We have, way back when Rick Lazio and Hillary Clinton, Lazio getting too physically confrontational. Obviously, Trump and Hillary Clinton.
Trump, whether it's about his physical comportment, or his language, or his general extreme negativity, the darkness that he portrays. If Kamala Harris gets that? She wins the debate. Period.
Doesn't mean take anything for granted. It means who -- all those moderate voters, out there in America, who would like some normalcy back--
CUPP: Yes.
DE BLASIO: --if they see one vision of, quote-unquote, This American Carnage, and then Kamala Harris talking about freedom and a vision, kitchen-table issues, and reproductive rights, and making sure that union members have good jobs?
COLLINS: Yes.
DE BLASIO: She wins for showing up, if that's what happens.
COLLINS: Well, it's also would be interesting to see how she would handle Trump, because after he questioned her heritage, at the conference with Black Journalists, last week, she didn't go full- throated on it, or whatever we heard from her, after she kind of addressed it, buttoned it up and moved on.
The Trump campaign has been talking about how this ticket has changed so much. J.D. Vance was saying today, maybe I'll still be debating Harris, because we don't know what it's going to look like. They have been certified. That is what the ticket looks like now.
BOYKIN: Right.
COLLINS: But there's this new reporting, and quotes from Pelosi, tonight, House Speaker -- former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, to "The Washington Post," talking about her role in Joe Biden's exit from the race.
[21:50:00]
She said, quote, "Now I was really asking for a better campaign." She said, "We did not have a campaign that was on the path to victory." She said, members in their districts knew that, talking about her new book.
And she said, when her goal was that Trump never set foot in the White House again, she said, quote, "I could not see an unfolding of events that" we "were just putting rose petals in front of him to go there."
That's really why Trump is so upset about this, is because he thought he was walking into a pretty easy race. And now, as the Congressman from Texas just acknowledged, it's very different.
BOYKIN: Yes, the race has shifted dramatically. The dynamics have shifted. And Trump doesn't know what to do. That's why he's flailing all around, trying to come up with a different attack line.
And I agree with Bill de Blasio said a moment ago. Because, right now, we've -- Kamala Harris has had all the momentum. First, Joe Biden drops out. Then she jumps in. Then she gets all the endorsement. She gets a week of great publicity. Then she raises hundreds of millions of dollars. Then she picks a nominee, a running mate. Then she's got the convention coming up.
And Donald Trump doesn't have any big events, that he's going to be able to steal the nation's attention, except for the possibility of debate. So, if I were in his campaign, I would want to do a debate, because that's the only opportunity they get, to sort of be on the same stage, and actually show that he's actually got something to say.
Of course, Donald Trump is the worst person for staying on message. And Kamala Harris is great on message. And so, he'll go off and say all kinds of wonderful -- wonderfully, incredibly false things. But in the end of the day, I hate to be the person to say this, debates don't matter. I mean, it's fine. It's entertaining. But it doesn't--
COLLINS: Well I think--
(CROSSTALK)
CUPP: Well one of them -- one of them definitely mattered. BOYKIN: I said I had to -- I have to -- I have to check that.
(CROSSTALK)
DE BLASIO: That's good.
COLLINS: Yes, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: But I mean -- because add to the Joe Biden thing, we clearly see the debates have--
CUPP: One of them mattered.
COLLINS: I think it did--
BOYKIN: Right. Well debates don't matter in terms of defining who wins the election now.
COLLINS: Well, I think--
BOYKIN: They don't determine the winner of elections, though.
COLLINS: OK.
BOYKIN: But they do obviously affect who can actually stay in the race, because--
COLLINS: CNN--
BOYKIN: --they threw out (ph) Joe Biden out on the race.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: CNN would like a word.
But S.E., can I ask you about something else that Trump said today, which was -- we were going to ask Pete Buttigieg about this. He was supposed to be at the show. He had a few travel issues.
But something Trump said, when I was listening to the interview, this morning, is he was going after Walz, and he was saying that he loves everything transgender. That was the quote that came from him.
CUPP: Yes.
COLLINS: And obviously, Governor Walz has been one of the most prominent proponents and supporters of transgender health care, gender-affirming care, that is, he's signed multiple bills related to it, since he's been the governor.
What does that look like? And how do Republicans talk about that on the campaign trail?
CUPP: Listen. I always say there's a good way and a bad way to talk about everything. And some of those social policies, I'll put abortion in there as well, will be scary to some voters. And there's a way to talk about them, with some restraint and discipline that would be effective.
I think going out and scaring people about childless cat ladies, and IVF, and he's the transgender -- and Tampon Tim? I don't think that's it. That's not the good way to talk about it. But there's policy stuff that they can go after, if they're smart and disciplined.
DE BLASIO: Look, I agree with that. And I also want to go back to the previous point. This debate could be a very different reality than we've seen previously, because we've never had a presidential candidate, on the stage, for such a brief period of time, as the presidential candidate.
Now, I still agree with you, in the end. I think Kamala Harris has the high ground. But the debate introduces some volatility.
What I want to be careful for, as a Democrat, is what we saw today, the attack on Walz, on the military record, that we not make the mistake that John Kerry sadly made during Swift vote, and absorb the blow. We have to fight back, and we have to do it right away.
BOYKIN: Totally agree.
COLLINS: Great to have all of you here. Mayor de Blasio. S.E. Cupp. Keith Boykin. Thank you all.
Tonight, three of Taylor Swift's upcoming concerts in Vienna have just been canceled because of an alleged terrorist plot. We're going to bring you the latest reporting about the plan, but also the suspects.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, three of Taylor Swift's upcoming concerts, in Vienna, Austria, have been canceled, over an alleged planned terrorist attack.
Austrian police say they have made further detentions, tonight, in connection with that alleged plot, after two men were arrested, earlier today. One of them was a 19-year-old Austrian citizen that police say had pledged allegiance to ISIS.
Authorities say that both suspects were radicalized online, and had formed concrete preparatory measures for a terrorist attack. Chemical substances were seized at the suspect's home, one of them.
Joining me tonight is Donell Harvin, the former Washington D.C. Chief of Homeland Security & Intelligence.
And obviously, Donell, a lot of people watching, right now, have been to a Taylor Swift concert. Hundreds of thousands of people were expected to attend these three shows. What do you read into to what we're hearing from police, tonight, that they have made further detentions, in addition to arresting those two other suspects?
DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE: Well, indicates that they made the right decision. This is still an active, ongoing terrorism investigation. And to not cancel the concerts would be a dereliction of duty.
Initially, I thought it was out of an abundance of caution. But just because they caught two individuals doesn't mean that there's some evolving threat. And it's clear that not only authorities, but Taylor Swift, and her team, have placed the safety of her, and her fans over profit. And I think they made the right call.
COLLINS: So, what does that investigation look like, right now? I mean, clearly, they have information about the two that they arrested. Now they're bringing in more people, it sounds like. What is the next step in something like this?
HARVIN: Well, we do know that after the attack, the Hamas attack on October 7th in Israel, that jihadi groups, particularly ISIS, have made renewed calls for attacks on the West. Christopher Wray has been on the Hill, and warned us multiple times with these, not just here, but abroad as well.
And so, what it means is that these are very complex investigations that need to unravel. The individuals may not even know each other. They could be desperate, different cells that are controlled by one individual, or they could be linked.
[22:00:00]
And so, until they run to ground, all their contacts, all the connections they've made, the phone calls, emails, they really can't be sure that there's not other individuals, out there, looking to harm Taylor Swift concertgoers.
COLLINS: Yes, obviously, certainly a concerning update that we'll pay close attention to, given there are more concerts scheduled in the future. We'll see what security looks like for those.
Donell Harvin, great to have you on the latest reporting on this. Thank you.
HARVIN: Thanks.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much, for joining us, tonight, here on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts right now.
