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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Now Calling For Three Debates With Harris: "We Have To Set The Record Straight"; Special Counsel Asks To Delay Trump Election Case Into September; New Body Camera Video Shows Moment Officer Spotted Shooter On Roof Just Before Trump Assassination Attempt. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 08, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: In just about 15 seconds. Besides being in the, your CNN piece, what are the Taylor Swift fans of Vienna doing?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, my God. They are taking over the city. It is absolutely incredible. They will do so for the next three days. They're going to be in their outfits. They will continue singing in the streets. Every single restaurant, bar, club, seems -- it seems, has some sort of offer for Swifties to come in, get a free burger, get a free drink, get to go to this club. So, this city continues to go hard for Taylor Swift, for the next few days.
BERMAN: We're just glad they're safe.
Salma, thank you so much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE, tonight.
We have a debate. Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, both agreeing to meet face-to-face, as the former President is now calling for three of them, in one month, in what was a falsehood and grievance-filled press conference, at Mar-a-Lago, today, as he sought to reclaim the spotlight and the headlines.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, the first debate between Donald Trump, and Vice President Kamala Harris, has been set. Mark your calendars for September 10th.
Because, following her rally, in Michigan today, Vice President Harris responded to the former President recommitting to the debate that he had not so long ago, backed away from.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm glad that he's finally agreed to a debate on September 10th. I'm looking forward to it. And hope he shows up.
REPORTER: Are you open to more debates?
HARRIS: I'm happy to have that conversation about an additional debate, right after September 10th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Harris there, outside of Air Force Two, saying it's TBD on those two other dates that Trump suggested, as he now seems eager to debate her, after waffling on the prospect, about a week ago, with Trump insisting overall that his strategy has not changed, despite how who he'll face on that debate stage certainly has.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The other side has to agree to the terms. They may or may not agree. I don't know if they're going to agree. They -- she hasn't done an interview. She can't do an interview. She's barely competent. And she can't do an interview. But I look forward to the debates, because I think we have to set the record straight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That press conference where Donald Trump made this announcement went for more than an hour. It was filled with several false statements and rambling at some points.
But one thing was clear, and it came through, as you listen to him speak earlier, and take questions, many of them from reporters. He's irritated at the size of crowds that Harris is drawing, and the momentum that she is seeing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's so terrible when you say, well, she has 1,500 people, a 1,000 people, and they talk about, oh, the enthusiasm. Let me tell you, we have the enthusiasm. The Republican Party and, me as a candidate, but the Republican Party, has the enthusiasm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump even boasted, at one point, that he had bigger crowds than Martin Luther King Jr. for his "I Have a Dream" speech. Yes, really.
This news conference took place at Trump's Mar-a-Lago club, as you can tell, from the lectern in front of him, far from the swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.
Asked by CNN's Kristen Holmes why he has been off the campaign trail, while his running mate, and Harris and her running mate, have very much been on it, Trump snapped with this response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have not had a public campaign event for nearly a week now. Tomorrow, you'll be in Montana, which is not a swing state. Some of your allies have expressed concern you're not taking this race seriously. Particularly at a time--
TRUMP: What a stupid question.
HOLMES: --where there is enthusiasm on the other side. Why haven't you been campaigning this week?
TRUMP: Because I'm leading by a lot. And because I'm letting their convention go through. And I am campaigning a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, it's not a stupid question, and instead, has even been one that some of Trump's own allies have been asking, privately, in recent days.
Here with me tonight.
Former Mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio.
Trump's former White House Communications Director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.
And Senior Correspondent for TheGrio, Natasha Alford.
Great to have you all here.
Alyssa, we have seen Trump do this before. Arrange a news conference, when he doesn't like the way that the news cycle is going. But he is very clearly trying to get it back now, from Harris, from her crowd sizes, from the momentum she's seeing. He was claiming there was only 1,500 people at her rally. It was closer to 15,000.
What did you see in that press conference today?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR UNDER TRUMP: I mean, it was an absolute dumpster fire of a press conference. I don't know how you could frame it any other way.
He does feel like the focus is not on him, she's getting a lot of attention. And he's kind of getting into I-alone-can-fix-it mode. I don't think advisers would have told him that 90 minutes of ranting and raving and relitigating the former election is a useful way to be campaigning.
[21:05:00]
But he did what he's going to do. He hashed out some of his greatest hits. And I think that there is something to the fact that his last time he was in a battleground state was in Georgia. He went after the popular governor and his wife. That's not helpful in a swing state. So, I think advisers are thinking, maybe have him do these interviews with influencers, maybe have him call into Fox News. But figured out until he can hone a message and have some level of discipline, having him out there actually isn't that helpful well.
COLLINS: Well, and what about him agreeing to the -- not only agreeing to the ABC debate, which was the one that he and Biden had initially agreed to, I believe, on September 10th. But what do you make of the fact that he's now saying, let's do three debates, one on Fox, one on ABC, another one, all in the month of September. When a week ago, he was saying, I don't even know if I'm going to do the ABC one.
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Yes, look, when you are losing, or about to be losing, you want more debates. Someone who is doing great wants as little exposure as possible.
He's now in a situation, where he can -- he can read the polls. His people can. He needs a game-changing situation. He hopes it comes in the debate. You get three of them, you have maximum chance of something special happening in your favor, the other team screwing up, et cetera.
But here's -- there is a trap in this, I think. Kamala Harris has done pretty much everything right, for the last few weeks, and including the stunning choice of Tim Walz, and the way that's played out.
I'd be careful, if I were her and her team, to not too quickly say no to debates. I think this is something that's happened with lot of candidates, who are doing well. They get overconfident. They seem to recede and play it safe, and then the public starts to feel a little bit queasy.
I think she should say, sure, I'll do three debates. And then I would bet Donald Trump ends up backing away, because she'll win the first one, and then suddenly he won't want anymore.
COLLINS: Well, and she is saying she do the one in just a month, and two days, basically, that's scheduled to happen.
Trump said he hasn't recalibrated his strategy for her. But it does seem like when he's trying his attack lines on her, what we're seeing from him, on social media and in other interviews he's doing, he is trying to figure out a line of attack for her, but still doesn't seem to have a succinct one yet.
NATASHA ALFORD, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THEGRIO, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN NEGRA": You could feel the desperation in that press conference, today. I mean, the hyperbole, the exaggeration. There was fear- mongering, almost to scare American voters into thinking that they again have to vote for him, in order to save the country.
But I think he doesn't know where to place her. Because she's a prosecutor. I think the strengths that so many things -- so many people like about her are her personality. Some of the things are intangible. It's charisma, it's the joy, right? Who would have thought that her being a person, who could be both serious and funny, would work in her favor?
So, he's going with, I think, some of the most base sort of attacks, saying she's not smart, not that bright, kind of playing to the racism and stereotypes that people have. And I think it just exposes how weak he is.
COLLINS: Yes, he said she wasn't smart enough to do a news conference. That's the quote that he said.
She said today that she's told her adviser she wants to do an interview before the end of the month. Obviously, it's quite early in August. Do you think she should do one before then?
DE BLASIO: Yes, again, I think when you're doing everything right, and she is, to her great credit, when you start to play kind of tight on some of the stuff, bad things happen.
She does have the ability, to give a perfectly good interview, or press conference, right? I mean, there's always a chance of a line or two out of place. But she's very, very good. And that projects confidence, that projects inclusion.
I don't blame anyone, in the media, who starts saying, hey, wait a minute. We want to hear more from you. We want a chance to question you, especially if you want to be the frontrunner. I think the important thing for her is to show openness, because that's part of what people like about her.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and we saw some of the Harris campaign people, saying, well, Trump should be doing more press conferences, because they like when he's out there answering questions.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, he was talking -- he was asked about abortion, at one point, Alyssa, today. I thought this was one of the key moments from that hour-long press conference.
Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think the abortion issue has been taken down many notches. I don't think it's of -- I don't think it's a big factor anymore, really.
And when people hear what I said in the debate, and I think I said it very well during the debate, we brought it back to the states. Everybody wanted it in the states. And very importantly, and you think about this, assuming you have exceptions. If you don't have exceptions, it's a more difficult thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He was also then asked about directing the FDA, if he would direct them to change abortion pills -- the access to abortion pills, if he was in office. That's part of Project 2025.
He didn't seem to understand the question. The answer that he did provide, I watched it twice, made no sense. He said: you could do things that would supplement. Absolutely. And those things are pretty open, and humane.
FARAH GRIFFIN: He also on this broader discussion, he gave kind of an incoherent answer as to how he would vote on the Florida abortion initiative, because legalizing abortion will be on the ballot in Florida. And he totally--
COLLINS: And he predicted it will pass.
FARAH GRIFFIN: And he predicted it'd pass, but he kind of dodged and sort of indicated maybe he would be supporting it.
[21:10:00]
Listen, he's absolutely downplaying it. He knows this is the -- one of the most motivating issues, especially for female voters, this cycle. He's actually been way ahead of Republicans in understanding what a vulnerability it is for Republicans.
And I don't think he'd know -- he doesn't have a core conviction around this, so he's trying to downplay and soften. And I wouldn't be shocked if he did end up, if he turns out to vote, vote for that initiative.
ALFORD: It was all wishful thinking, that idea that abortion doesn't matter.
The Public Religion Research Institute found that there are more voters, who are picking their candidate, based on their stance on abortion. It's only increased the number of people. And we know that the majority of the public actually does support the legal right to abortion.
So, again, he wants to signal that maybe there's some -- be as vague as possible, so there's room for interpretation that doesn't trap him in a corner.
COLLINS: Well and he--
DE BLASIO: And he took away a woman's right to choose. I want to be clear. He took away a woman's right to choose. And this is the first time the women of America get to vote on him, since he did that. And they are going to speak loudly.
COLLINS: Well, and he brought up Ralph Northam and abortion, seeming to try to get at Governor Walz.
But there was -- there were a few moments where I don't, I'm not sure he ever actually said Governor Walz's name during this press conference. There are just a few moments from that that stood out, as he was even trying to kind of articulate what Walz has done for transgender rights, in Minnesota. Listen to what Trump was saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A radical-left man that is.
Your new governor from Minnesota.
Kamala and her friend, her new friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you--
DE BLASIO: I mean, it's so funny.
ALFORD: It's fun.
DE BLASIO: The football coach, the National Guard reservist with his dad jokes, is just not the picture of the radical-left man. I mean, it's just amazing, they're trying to put an identity on Tim Walz that just like bounces right off of him. And it's -- it gets back to your point. They don't know what to do at this moment. They're lost.
And actually, Tim Walz, I think we all are surprised, Tim Walz is like the perfect American candidate for the blue wall, especially, the perfect VP choice. And Trump just can't find a way to demonize him.
ALFORD: It was as if he was afraid to attack him, right?
DE BLASIO: Right.
ALFORD: This avoiding of the name, because he's like, this is everyone's favorite team player.
DE BLASIO: A mystical name.
ALFORD: Everyone's like, friendly dad.
FARAH GRIFFIN: He may have also just not known it, to be honest. I would not be stunned if he did. Whereas J.D. Vance's name ID and unfavourability have gone up.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I think he's still learning who Tim Walz is, and he doesn't know how to structure an attack.
COLLINS: Still learning his -- I mean, his -- maybe his name as well.
There was another thing that clearly frustrated Trump, when it came up today, something that has always been an animating topic for him.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I've spoken to the biggest crowds. Nobody's spoken to crowds bigger than me. If you look at Martin Luther King, when he did his speech, his great speech, and you look at ours. Same real estate. Same everything. Same number of people, if not, we had more. And they said he had a million people. But I had 25,000 people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, Trump's fascination, his exaggeration of crowd sizes, goes back over 2,700 days to this one, in 2017, after his inauguration, when he sent his new press secretary, out to the White House briefing room, to lie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY IN TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration. Period. Both in person and around the globe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: More now from Trump's former White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci.
Anthony, just when this came up today, I think the MLK comparison, it's just this eternal obsession with crowd sizes.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, MANAGING PARTNER OF SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: Yes. He doesn't like the way the media reports on the crowd sizes. Because the media is telling the truth, and he doesn't like that.
And so, this is the reason why he told 30,000 lies, in four years. And that's not my number. That's "The Washington Post" number. The actual number was 40,000 -- 30,454 lies.
So, he doesn't like that, Kaitlan.
But I want to pick up on something that Mayor de Blasio said, because I think it's totally true. Governor Walz is the College-Game-Day candidate. I mean, this is a guy that could go on College Game Day, and recite all of the players, and tell you what to happen that day. And it's going to be very hard to lay a glove on this guy.
So, they can keep trying if they want to. I know they're working on this whole Stolen Valor narrative, and all this sort of thing. But it's not going to stick on this man. This guy is a true patriot, a real American, and he's a happy warrior. And so, it's a very big contrast between him and J.D. Vance. I will say that.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see if Governor Walz will be the celebrity guest- picker on College Game Day, this fall. I'm not so sure if they want to wade into politics.
But Anthony, on the actual serious nature of this, and Trump's view of this campaign, and this race, as it stands right now. [21:15:00]
I mean, you saw him today, upset with the question from Kristen Holmes, about why he's not on the campaign -- out on the campaign trail, this week, which no one has really articulated, at least not to me. And also, just the momentum and what energy Harris is seeing in her race. It doesn't -- it's not clear that it'll last forever. But certainly, it's there right now.
How do you think Trump is feeling about his own campaign, and his own campaign team, right now?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, he's not on the campaign trail because he's mixed up. He's been flummoxed by how to attack her. So, he's in retreat. He's in his bunker.
He's also got a big fight going on, internally, related to Project 2025 because he sent 70 or 80 people over there, to work on that, and then he disavowed them, when it wasn't working. And so, there's a breach inside the campaign. He's upset with the two campaign heads, right now. He's trying to figure out if he should go back to the 2016 version of his campaign.
And a result of all this, he's in great rumination and frustration inside of Mar-a-Lago. And that's why he called that press conference. He went -- he went around, and he basically said, OK, I'm going to show all of you guys how it's done. I'm the Alpha big dog. You guys are dummies. I have this very big brain. And so, I'm going to go out to the press and spew garbage for 90 minutes.
And I can guarantee you. When he walked off that podium, he thought he did great, and they told him he did great. But it was like a lot of unhinged mania. And I think it reminds people of what his presidency was like between 2017 and 2021.
And so, that's why he's not campaigning. He doesn't know directionally where to go, right now, and he's calling around to his minions, trying to figure out if he should change strategy, and start firing people again.
And just one more point, Kaitlan. It's very important. In August of 2016, he did exactly that. He fired his group, and he hired Kellyanne Conway and Steve Bannon to come into the campaign.
COLLINS: And you think we could see a replica of that in the 2024 version.
SCARAMUCCI: I do. I do. Because he's really slipping in the polls. He looks very frustrated. He looks very angry. And you know him as well as I know him. You covered him in the White House.
I'm not going to bait -- debate Kamala Harris unless it's on Fox News.
And then, five minutes later, I want to do three debates with Kamala Harris. And again, Mayor de Blasio is right. He wants to do more debates, because he knows he's behind, and he has to figure out how to way -- a way to catch-up.
COLLINS: We'll see what that looks like.
Anthony Scaramucci, everyone, the whole panel, thank you all.
We do have breaking news in the Trump election interference case. What the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, is now asking for. It's actually quite a surprise, compared to what his track record has been so far.
And tonight, we also have obtained new body cam video, from Trump's attempted assassination. It's remarkable to see what happened seconds before the gunman opened fire. We'll show you, in a moment.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some breaking news, tonight, because in a new filing that we just got, prosecutors for Special Counsel, Jack Smith, say that they need more time before having to say what the Justice Department's next move is going to be, when it comes to the election interference case, against Donald Trump, in Washington.
Smith's office told the judge that they're still working through the Supreme Court's decision, earlier this summer, that granted Trump sweeping immunity, for his official acts, while he was in office.
Our CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter, Katelyn Polantz, is following all of the breaking news, has been reading through this filing.
And Katelyn, what just stands out, right off the bat? After covering Jack Smith is, this is unusual for him. He's normally pushing for things to happen faster. Now they're asking for more time. What else is in here?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, one of the things that the Justice Department, the Special Counsel's Office, is saying in this two-page filing is consultations are underway, not even about what to do next, but even just talking to the judge, about when they can tell her what to do next.
So, they want until basically September for this case to kick up again. They need more time even to plan out what the next steps will be. That's three weeks away.
And Kaitlan, one of the things to remember here is there is not going to be a trial before the election, in this federal case, against Donald Trump. That has long been known since the Supreme Court decided, almost 40 days ago, on this presidential immunity decision.
And then on top of that, within the Justice Department, they are very well-aware that once we're into September, there can't be overt investigative activity that's taking place. That's a department policy.
And then, on top of that, there's a question of whether there will be any substantive or consequential court hearings, when those would be able to take place. Would they happen in September and October?
A lot of this is going to ultimately be up to the judge.
But we were expecting a filing, laying out the plans, from the Justice Department, tomorrow, a hearing, next Friday. That does not appear to be where the Justice Department wants things to be going. And we'll have to see what Judge Tanya Chutkan does next.
The Trump team, of course, is very happy with the idea that delays are what is in court, right now, before the judge.
COLLINS: Yes, it's been their strategy all along.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you for that.
Our inside source, who is also here tonight, not only served in the Trump administration, as the National Security Adviser. He was also the Assistant Attorney General at the Justice Department before. Ambassador John Bolton is here.
It's great to have you, Ambassador.
[21:25:00]
When you hear this, what do you read into, to Jack Smith asking for more time from the judge, to kind of sort through this, when he's actually typically been the one pushing to get this case in trial in court faster?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think it's less Jack Smith than it is dealing with the rest of the Justice Department, on two levels.
First, I think this question of timing and what can be done or not be done, pursuant to Justice Department policy, before an election, is going to take some time to resolve, because there's never been a case like this. It's another piece of uncharted territory, of how much they're actually going to be able to do in September, October.
But I think the other issue is the Supreme Court decision on immunity is an extraordinarily broad decision. And it's wrong in many respects, in my view.
One respect in which it's wrong is that it's too simplistic in its assessment of how the Executive branch works. And I think within the Justice Department, you have a lot of components that have responsibility for protecting the Executive branch, but also prosecuting criminals.
And before Jack Smith plunges ahead with whatever his view of how to interpret that immunity decision is, the rest of the department has to come to agreement. COLLINS: Yes.
BOLTON: And I think there's probably a lot of discussion, and that's a big cause of the delay.
COLLINS: Yes. Well and it's remarkable to see it, especially given this is a case that revolves around, after the election and January 6th.
And then, at that press conference, today, we also heard Trump describing, when he left the White House, as a peaceful transfer of power. That's a quote from him. I'm not sure historians will see it that way.
But as he was talking about what it looked like, when he left the White House, the last time, he also seemed to be laying the groundwork for the 2024 election, and possible issues that we could see him, him try to present, should he lose this election.
Listen to what he said, when he was raising questions, about Harris as the candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The fact that you can be, get no votes, lose in the primary system. In other words, you had 14 or 15 people. She was the first one out. And that you can then be picked to run for president? It seems, seems to me, actually unconstitutional. Perhaps it's not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you think a comment like that is Trump laying the groundwork to question the election results, saying it's unconstitutional for her -- claiming it's unconstitutional for her to be the nominee?
BOLTON: Absolutely. And it's another demonstration how little of American history Trump knows. And whatever he did know, he obviously has disregarded.
But we know one thing for sure. Trump never loses. And so, if he's not declared the winner of 2024, as in 2020, it must be because he was treated unfairly, yet again. It was stolen, yet again.
And I don't think he knows exactly what his theory is going to be, this time, to explain how the election, he was denied winning the election. So, he's trotting out a number of things.
And I think this is why people need to start thinking more now about how to deny Trump, the ability, the day after the election, if he loses, to try and throw the process into chaos again.
I think this was a mistake, in 2020. Trump was the cause of many Republicans not casting early ballots, because he insisted they would be fraudulently abused by the Democrats. Well, in 2020, why weren't his lawyers in court, in August, September, October, trying to stop all this vote harvesting, all this illicit activity? Because he didn't -- he didn't want to do something that might actually affect the election. He wanted to build the basis, for an excuse, to explain why he didn't really lose. And I definitely think that's what he's about.
COLLINS: Yes, and he was questioning mail-in voting today, even as his daughter-in-law, at the Republican National Committee, is urging people to vote by mail, saying that they should play that game.
I do want something else that happened, today, in this very lengthy press conference, something that I'm going to -- we're going to show you what Trump said today, and then show you what actually happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was very protective of her. Nobody would understand that. But I was. I think my people understand it. They used to say, lock her up, lock her up. And I'd say, just relax, please.
Folks, honestly, she's guilty as hell.
I think she should be in jail.
She should be locked up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Not exactly relax, please, or as he phrased it today.
BOLTON: Yes, look, Trump can't tell the difference between what's true, and what's false. It's not that he lies a lot. Because to lie, you have to do it consciously. He just can't tell the difference.
So, he makes up what he wants to say, at any given time. If it happens to comport with what everybody else sees? Well, that's fine. And if it doesn't comport with anybody else? He doesn't really care. And he's had decades of getting away with it. So, in his mind, the truth is, whatever he wants it to be. And that's what you heard today.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, you got to wonder, how Hillary Clinton sees a first answer like that one.
Ambassador John Bolton, thank you for being here.
BOLTON: Glad to be with you.
COLLINS: Up next. Republicans today questioning the military record of Vice President Harris' running mate, Governor Tim Walz. What CNN's KFILE found about what happened the first time Walz ran for office.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Vice President Harris, tonight, defending her new running mate, as Senator J.D. Vance and other Republicans have called into question Governor Tim Walz's military record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Listen, I praise anyone who has presented themselves to serve our country, and I think that we all should.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: Now, this is not a newfound accusation against Governor Walz, I should note. Because tonight, CNN's KFILE has actually found he faced similar criticism, to what he's facing now, during his first run for Congress, when his 2006 campaign leaned heavily, on his military service.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes an everyday person comes along and helps put the impossible within our reach. The coach, who could see a championship, three years before the big game. The teacher, who inspires generations one by one. The soldier, who served for two decades, but ready when they attacked. Command Sergeant Major, retiring four years late, after a tour, supporting the war in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: At that time, multiple letters to his local paper, accused Walz of suggesting that he served in Iraq or Afghanistan. Walz himself responded to that, clarifying that he was deployed to support the war in Afghanistan, serving in Italy from 2003 to 2004.
I'm joined, tonight, by Democratic congresswoman, Mikie Sherrill, who was also a Navy veteran and served for nearly 10 years.
So, it's great to have you here. One, of course, thank you for your service. We've been focusing so much on these questions, for people who have served, J.D. Vance, Governor Walz, it's obviously important to also just say thank you for serving.
But as a fellow veteran, you spoke out today, about these attacks, on your fellow Democrat. Why did you feel compelled to do so?
REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Because the accusations being lodged against Governor Walz are so incredibly offensive, it's reminiscent of the Swift Boat bullshit that Senator Kerry faced in his election.
We're seeing the same people trying to reignite this type of slanderous campaign, against a man, who served for 24 years, in the National Guard. He served -- generally, people serve for about 20 years. He served 24 years of honorable service. Got out before the announcement had even been made that his troops were deploying. So, to try to make up some story against his service is really offensive, and even more offensive, because these accusations are being launched by another veteran.
COLLINS: Well, and I know the Swift Boat reference, there, is one that that our audience will remember. But what's also notable here is that one of Donald Trump's campaign managers, Chris LaCivita, was the driving force behind those ads, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, that questioned John Kerry's military service.
And I just wonder, as you look at this, in the heat of this political moment. When Kerry ran for president, in 2004, people said he didn't do enough to respond and to push back to those attacks.
I mean, what do you want to hear from Governor Walz on this?
SHERRILL: I just really want him to proudly talk about his time in service, because he has lived a lifetime of public service.
And this is that same old, tired playbook. They're like one-trick ponies against people who serve.
And those of us, who are veterans, find it incredibly offensive, because it's not, the details. It's the fact that here is a person, who has spent his entire life in service to this country.
So, whether it was 24 years, in the National Guard, or if it was the fact that he was a school teacher, for over a decade. He's been in Congress. He's been the governor. Now, he's offered to raise his hand, again, to serve as vice President.
So, to come at him and suggest that his service wasn't honorable, or that despite all the records to the contrary, somehow left his troops, wanting leadership, is just ridiculous, and it's really, really offensive.
COLLINS: He has been scrutinized for suggesting, on occasion, that he carried weapons in fighting. It's examples of comments that the Governor has made, like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can make sure that those weapons of war, that I carried in war, is the only place where those weapons are at.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You were someone who did serve in combat. So, when you hear something like that, do you think that Governor Walz should be more precise about how he discusses his service? Should he acknowledge and clarify that he wasn't carrying weapons in an actual combat zone?
SHERRILL: Well, many of us have served in combat theaters. I wouldn't say that I've served in ground combat. I haven't.
But these are different ways that our military records show that we've served in theaters, which are considered combat theaters. But many of us feel like, look, here's -- here are people that have been on the ground, really facing a different type of fighting than I did, say, on a ship, for example. So, there's all different ways of characterizing this.
I think what he was saying is that these are weapons of war that he has trained people in, that he is familiar with, that shouldn't be on the streets, or in civilian hands, that these are very dangerous weapons. And he wants to make sure that our children aren't threatened by these very same weapons that we go to war with.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes. And we're seeing all this play out. I just -- what do you want to hear from -- I mean, it's just kind of this moment, where I was watching this all day, today, where people are then looking at what Senator J.D. Vance did. They're looking at Governor Walz. Anyone who speaks out there, looking at their own military record.
We heard from Adam Kinzinger saying earlier that he's worried this entire instance playing out is going to make people, who have served maybe less hesitant to run for office. Do you share that concern?
SHERRILL: That's why we're all coming out today. Because I've got to tell you, I am so proud of our veterans, the people across this country who have served. In fact, my own daughter has entered into the Navy. I am thrilled with that. I am so proud of her.
And I would never disparage the service of others, because people serve across this country, in all different ways, in leadership positions, across this nation.
Governor Walz is one of the senior-most enlisted members, who's ever served in the House of Representatives. He should be proud of that. And the people of Minnesota should be proud to have a veteran like that representing them. And to disparage that or belittle that?
Again, I think part of the reason that you hear so many of us coming out so strongly, is because Senator Kerry was a gentleman. He was just going to dismiss it, because he was very proud of his service, and I think -- thought that that kind of spurious attack would simply die out on its own.
Again, this is like a one-trick pony from the Republican Party, which is bereft of ideas. So, they're attacking some of the very things that I'm so proud of, about members of my party, and especially our veteran members.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, congratulations to your daughter. And thanks to her. And thanks to everyone, who has served. I think one thing that we could all agree on is that we're all grateful for any veteran's service.
Congressman Mikie Sherrill, it's great to have you, tonight. Thank you.
SHERRILL: Oh, thanks again.
COLLINS: Yes. Great to have you.
Up next. There are other moments, especially one from that press conference, today, from Donald Trump, at Mar-a-Lago that you have to see. Renewed attacks on one of the most popular Republican governors, in a critical swing state. What I am hearing from sources, tonight, about why Donald Trump is still fuming at Brian Kemp.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Donald Trump ignoring the advice of fellow Republicans, in cases that they've made, right here, on THE SOURCE, to focus more on the issues of the future, and less on reviving past feuds, with members of his own party, including with the popular Republican governor, of the State of Georgia, Brian Kemp.
Advice that Trump all but ignored during today's press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I got him elected. Without me, he wouldn't be governor. I got him elected. He was doing terribly. I got him elected. With that being said, I hope we can repair it.
When you get somebody elected, they're supposed to like you. He's not exactly, for some reason. And you'll have to ask him about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, I am told that Trump is still fuming about how Governor Kemp revealed to me, in June, that he did not vote for Donald Trump, or any candidate, in the Republican primary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Well, speaking of the Georgia primary, who did you vote for?
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): In the Georgia primary? I didn't vote for anybody. I voted. But I didn't vote for anybody.
COLLINS: You didn't vote--
KEMP: I mean, the race was already over, when the primary got here.
COLLINS: But you didn't vote for Donald Trump?
KEMP: I didn't vote for anybody.
COLLINS: Why not?
KEMP: Because the race was over with. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source, tonight, Governor Kemp's number two, previously, the former Lieutenant Governor, of the State of Georgia, Geoff Duncan is here now. I should note, he is supporting Vice President Harris in this election.
Geoff, it's great to have you, though.
Because not withstanding that, Brian Kemp also told me he will be voting for Donald Trump in November. He just didn't vote for him in the primary.
I mean, what do you make of the fact that the Trump has kind of reignited this feud with him?
GEOFF DUNCAN, (R) FORMER GEORGIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the Donald Trump that got beat in 2020 is back in full force. And that's music to the ears of people like me, Republicans like me, that cannot wait for Donald Trump to get beat, so we can have our party back.
Every time Donald Trump opens his mouth, and talks bad about Brian Kemp, he just seems so small. I have yet to have a single Republican, in Georgia, since he ran his mouth, in this last rally down here, try to defend what Donald Trump is saying. And in fact, to the contrary. Brian Kemp has entire lines of Republicans going up on social media, and in the newspaper, defending his conservative honor. Rightfully so.
But Donald Trump is on the war path. And it's I can't imagine why it would make sense, politically.
But the facts just don't align, as he continues to malign Brian Kemp and others around him, about that 2020 election. I mean, what he's essentially saying is, hey, I helped you win an election, which is false. He didn't. Brian Kemp was already up by almost double-digits at the time. But because I endorsed you via Twitter, you should commit a felony, and try to get me to win the election, even though I didn't get enough votes.
COLLINS: Yes. That's basically it. That's a good way to sum it up.
But you know what I was thinking about this? And I've interviewed Kemp, multiple times, just about where this stands. And he so clearly wants to be able to support the Republican ticket. He wants to see a Republican in the Oval Office. He even seemed to be on the verge of being willing to go out on the campaign trail, with Donald Trump, when I spoke to him, right then, before the debate.
But he's not just going -- Donald Trump is not just going after Kemp, or you, or Brad Raffensperger, the Secretary of State.
He also went after Brian Kemp's wife, the first lady of Georgia, Marty Kemp, because she did not vote for Trump. And you said, what you have been hearing from other Republicans. I mean, how does that sit with suburban women voters in Georgia? Did they shrug that off? [21:50:00]
DUNCAN: No, certainly not. I mean, he's got lots of problems, and lots of constituencies, that don't like him, and really genuinely want an excuse to not vote for him. I think his lies and his hateful attitude is really starting to serve as snake venom to that 10 percent that are going to actually care and matter.
I mean, I can't personally support Donald Trump, for a number of reasons. But one of them is because he instigated death threats against my wife, and my kids, and did nothing about it.
I had armed guards outside these windows, waiting for somebody to try to attack me, not because they were a terrorist, but because they were a Republican, that believed in his lies, that I had somehow rigged the election. It's all nonsense.
But truth -- the truth of the matter is, like I said a second ago, this 10 percent in the middle, I think these lies serve as snake venom, and it's really going to turn their stomachs.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and it's remarkable to see how these very real comments can have real effects on people, and their families, and what that means.
Geoff Duncan, thank you, for joining us, from Georgia tonight.
DUNCAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next here, we have new body cam footage, from the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, the remarkable moment that police officers actually discovered the gunman.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, CNN has obtained some remarkable new body cam video that shows the moment that a police officer saw former President Trump's would-be assassin, just seconds before he opened fire.
In the video, you can see a police officer hoisted up, onto the roof, by another officer. The officer then sees the shooter, and quickly drops back down to the ground.
It was about 40 seconds after that, when Thomas Matthew Crooks fired eight shots at Donald Trump.
Now we knew this happened. We had heard about it from our reporting. But this is the first time that you are actually getting to see it.
In another video, tonight, from after that encounter, you can hear just how furious one local officer is at the Secret Service.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OFFICER 1: I (bleep) told them they need to post the guys (bleep) over here. I told them that, the (bleep), the Secret Service. I told them that (bleep) Tuesday. I told them to post (bleep) guys over here.
OFFICER 2: I wasn't even concerned about it because I thought someone was on the rooftop. I thought that's how we -- how in the hell can you lose a guy walking back here?
OFFICER 1: I talked to the Secret Service guys, they were like, "Yes, no problem we're going to post guys over here."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Secret Service ultimately posted three local counter- snipers inside one of the adjacent buildings. They have declined to comment on this new video, tonight.
Joining me, tonight, to discuss, CNN's Law Enforcement Analyst, and former Secret Service agent himself, Jonathan Wackrow.
What goes through your mind? I know what goes through my mind, when I see that video. What goes through your mind?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: It's stunning, right? It is absolutely stunning. Because this is, the worst fears of every Secret Service agent, as you're putting together a security plan, came to reality at that moment. When you know about the breakdown in communication, the breakdown in roles and responsibilities.
Now knowing that there was 40 seconds, there was a gap of 40 seconds from the moment that an officer went onto the roof, to when the shots started getting, going down-range towards the former President, that is eternity in law enforcement, to try to prevent that action from happening.
What we did not hear were calls on the radio, notify the Secret Service, pull the former President off the stage. There was a lot of things we didn't hear, in terms of communication in action. Why? Because it wasn't coordinated beforehand.
Those officers, clearly, from this video that we're seeing, did not understand their role and responsibility on that day. They were acting as they would normally act, in a patrol situation, not a protective mission.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, and you can -- in the dashboard camera of the officer, who came face-to-face with the gunman, you can clearly hear the eight shots, and the warning of that officer.
I just want -- we have, actually, the audio of that. I want people to be able to listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - DRAMATIC NEW BODY CAM FOOTAGE FROM TRUMP ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT)
(GUNSHOTS)
OFFICER 1: Don't put up your head -- he's right there.
OFFICER 2: He's got glasses, long hair.
Yo, Mike.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need a ladder.
OFFICER 2: I climbed the wall and I popped my head right in front of him bro. he's got a book bag, he's got mad (bleep), AR laying down.
But watch out because he can (bleep) come right down on your over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WACKROW: What you didn't hear is notify the Secret Service, the immediate action steps. That's not what we're hearing here in this audio.
We're hearing those shots. That's chilling. For an agent, for a former agent, that is absolutely chilling to hear, because it's the worst- case scenario come to reality. And it shouldn't have happened.
COLLINS: Yes. And when you watch that, and as we've seen this play out, and as Trump himself is still being faced with questions about how he felt about this. You're seeing the enhanced security around him.
When he was on stage at the Republican Convention, I saw Secret Service officers actually on stage with him, which is typically, they'd be right down, but they were actually on the stage with him.
The Democratic Convention is in two weeks, in Chicago. There were already concerns about protests, and what that was going to look like. I mean, in light of such a security failure, what does it look like for a major event like that one?
WACKROW: Well, the major event now is putting every potential resource towards it. It's not just a political event stand-alone. This is a national special security event, where it's a whole-of-government approach.
And they've been spending an awful long time, years, in the planning process, to identify threats, identify the points of vulnerability, and building out a comprehensive security plan, as they did with the RNC. So, it's a different application of security.
But these moments, these political rallies that are happening, with significant frequency, now and through November, the Secret Service has to readjust their model--
COLLINS: Yes. WACKROW: --to never allow this to happen again.
COLLINS: The last time we talked, it was about the transparency of the Secret Service. Has it improved enough, in your view?
WACKROW: No, it hasn't. It hasn't. Because what we're learning is more from these videos than we are from the leaders of the Secret Service. And that is a problem.
[22:00:00]
We need to reassure the American public that the election is safe, for our political leaders. And I'm just not hearing enough. The former -- the current Director is trying his best, to get that message out. But it's got to be more forceful.
COLLINS: Jonathan Wackrow, thank you, as always, for your expertise.
WACKROW: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts right now.
