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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Two Prominent Republicans Who Bucked Trump Now Back Him; UAW Files Federal Labor Charges Against Trump & Musk; Tonight: In New Interview, Trump Says Hacked Campaign Material Is "Boring Information." Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 13, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But if I think about the fires we did -- we covered, last year, in Parnitha, which is what was considered the lungs of Athens, a forest area that was completely decimated. That, again, is just compounding the issue that every year, we have these stories. And it's affecting livelihoods. It's affecting businesses and homes. And for the first time ever, we saw fires reaching so close to the city center of Athens.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
GIOKOS: And I think authorities are watching very closely of what that means in the future.
COOPER: Yes. Eleni Giokos, thank you. I'm glad you're there. Appreciate it.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. See you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Two prominent Republicans, who stood up to Donald Trump's election lies in 2020, now say they are all aboard the Trump train.
And Nikki Haley is back with a blunt message for her party.
Also, Trump and Elon Musk are going up against one of America's biggest unions. What they said that set off the UAW President, Shawn Fain. He'll join me live, after calling Trump probably the worst four- letter word that a union guy can.
And also tonight, we've just learned that the official, who ruled against a Team USA's bronze medal appeal, assuring that the medal went to a Romanian gymnast, has been working for Romania for years. We're going to get reaction, from an Olympic legend.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, several prominent Republicans, who once bucked Donald Trump, are now backing him. Let's refer to this as Exhibits Y and Z. Former Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina, and former Arizona governor, Doug Ducey.
Burr, as you may recall, is the former Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and he'd voted to convict Donald Trump, at his second impeachment trial, in 2021, for inciting an insurrection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Burr.
RICHARD BURR, FORMER UNITED STATES SENATOR: Vote guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Burr, guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So why would someone, who voted like that, now vote to put Donald Trump back in the White House?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURR: My vote on the President was not on anything that the House presented.
It was on the fact that I thought that the President leaving the Vice President, without surging to Capitol Hill, a protective detail, to take a Vice President with a nuclear football, and to make him secure, was a breach of office.
That's not a disqualifier as to whether you can serve. It's a bad choice that I thought a president made one time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, voting to convict someone at an impeachment trial is kind of a disqualifier, because it got two-thirds of the vote, which Trump's didn't, it would have removed him from office.
Also, tonight, though, we're looking at this. Former Republican governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey, has just said he is going to be voting for Donald Trump, in November, along with another 2020 election denier, who is seeking office in his state. That's Republican Senate candidate, Kari Lake.
But that would be the same Doug Ducey, who was pressured by Trump to overturn the election results in his state.
We all remember how angry Trump was, on Election Night. And then, it led to this moment, where Ducey famously silenced a phone call from Trump, in 2020, as he was certifying his state's election results. The way we knew is because Hail to the Chief was his ringtone.
We'll take that moment there, to where we are now, when Ducey tweeted out that he is going to be voting for Trump, in November. It seems like a lifetime ago.
But Ducey is joining an overgrowing list of Republicans, including the Georgia governor, Brian Kemp, the former U.N. Ambassador, Nikki Haley, the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell, just to name a few, who have either warned Americans about Donald Trump, or were asked by Trump himself, to defy the Constitution, and have chosen to endorse him, and vote for him, to put him back in office, nonetheless.
I want to start, tonight, with my excellent political panel, who is joining me here. I've got a lot of you here.
But Shermichael, I want to start with you, as the Republican who is here with us.
And I just wonder, when you look at this, these instances, it was just kind of remarkable to see the back-to-back of Doug Ducey, and Richard Burr, coming out and explaining that they are going to be supporting Trump, in November. How do you explain this about-face from these two Republicans?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, I'm not surprised. I mean, electoral politics, and politics, generally speaking, Kaitlan, is about the maximization of power.
And I think many of the members or individuals that we just saw, a few moments ago, are concerned about electoral processes and gains. They're worried about maybe their future positions, within the party. And principally, they do have a value system that they believe would be actualized, under Republican leadership versus under Democratic leadership, regardless of what their views may be about the former President.
I don't know -- look, this may make some folks uncomfortable. But you need power to move things forward. And I think Republicans understand perhaps a little bit better than our Democratic friends, that, hey, you got to sometimes go with the guy, you don't like, if that means gaining that power. And I think that's what we're seeing.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: OK. But David Axelrod, I mean, these are two -- they're both voting to put someone back in office, who -- he pressured Doug Ducey to overturn the legitimate election results in his state.
And Richard Burr believed that he was guilty on that day, and talking about what he did for Mike Pence, or didn't do for Mike Pence. I mean, I think Mike Pence would have a different view of that.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: Yes.
COLLINS: What do you make of that?
AXELROD: Yes, I have to just disagree with Shermichael.
Yes, of course, power is necessary to get things done. But when you vote to convict a President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors? That is a disqualification. And what's really stunning about the Burr thing is that he's retired from politics. He's not running for anything. And so, he really didn't have to do this. And his explanation was really hard to understand.
Ducey may have political aspirations.
What is clear is that supporting Trump as the nominee is in the minds of a lot of Republican politicians. The toll they have to pay, to be members of the Republican Party now. And we saw that at the Republican convention. I mean, Mitch McConnell tried to pay the toll, and he got booed at the convention.
COLLINS: Yes.
AXELROD: So, this is a -- this is a Trump party now, and people are going to have to swallow a lot of -- a lot of principle in order to support him.
COLLINS: And Leah, when you look at this. I mean voting to convict of high crimes and misdemeanors is a pretty damning vote to, for any Republican senator, to take. Obviously, very few of them actually did it that day.
But if you're a swing voter, and you haven't had Donald Trump in office for four years, and you're looking to someone, like a Doug Ducey, a Richard Burr, Mitch McConnell, these more moderate or mainstream Republicans. Could this impact them, and they'll say, well, they're voting for him, maybe I should too?
LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, HISTORY PROFESSOR: I actually think it does the opposite. I think it highlights just how hypocritical these figures are.
And I think, I'd point to something that Jeff Flake said many, many years ago, when he said, pointed out how the Republican Party had become Trump's party. And he says, when we endorse Trump, he puts us into this bind, where we have no choice but to get in line behind him. But then, we pay the consequences at the ballot box.
And so, I think that highlights and really articulates this real challenge that Republicans have. It is a moment that where they are trying to stop the momentum that we see with Harris and Walz, that's going on right now.
And certainly, they are trying to get in line, to Shermichael's point about power. They are trying to consolidate power.
But it's also true that for anyone who's looking at this, these are people, and it's not even -- and for Ducey -- in Ducey's case, this isn't even something that is old news. This is something that is relatively recent. As late as 2022, he was saying things about Trump, including, he is a fraud, he is dangerous to democracy. And now, here we have him endorsing him. And I think a lot of moderates--
COLLINS: Yes. Well that was--
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Yes. Go ahead.
COLLINS: That was obviously before he won the Republican nomination. So, there had been that small period, where you did hear--
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Right.
COLLINS: --Republicans, who were more willing to criticize Trump, because they didn't realize yet just how firmly he held on to that power.
What did Democrats do, about something like -- when they see what happened today, with people like Doug Ducey and Richard Burr?
AISHA MILLS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: They are not our problem. I mean, the fact that we are sitting here, right now, when Kamala Harris is surging, and the Democrats clearly have a very defined pathway to victory, to 270, that we have all the enthusiasm.
The last thing I care about is sitting around, worrying about Donald Trump. Because his sycophants, and liars, and bullies are always going to do what they always do.
Here's the thing that Democrats are thinking about, and the momentum that we're riding, is that Congress, the -- you want to talk about power, as we just heard. The balance of Congress, right, is also -- is also, right now, I think, at the grasp of the Democrats, being able to seize the House. We've got the Senate, which the Democrats can have power, in the Senate.
And so, in terms of Kamala Harris, at the top of the ticket, really driving this enthusiasm that we're seeing in the states, especially swing states, I think that there are down-ballot races that are going to benefit that are more of our focus than whatever Donald Trump's sycophants are doing.
COLLINS: Well, you have that luxury, as a Democrat, of not having to worry about what Trump is doing and saying. But Republicans do not.
And we're hearing all of these Republicans, Shermichael, talk about what Donald Trump is saying, out on the campaign trail, what he weighs out of the campaign trail, what he's been posting.
Nikki Haley did an interview with Fox News, earlier. She had some advice for the person that she once challenged for the Republican nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R-SC): The campaign is not going to win, talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win, talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win, talking about whether she's dumb. It's not -- you can't win on those things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: She also said, and I'm quoting her, the Republicans need to be fighting for suburban women, for college-educated, for independents, for moderate Republicans, and for conservative Democrats.
[21:10:00]
Is Trump doing any of that, right now, Shermichael?
SINGLETON: I mean, look, she's right. I mean, even Kevin McCarthy said the same thing, I think, a day or two ago, on Fox News.
I mean, look, this sort of goes back again to that original question of, Kaitlan, you asked about power. And Dr. Igor (ph) was so spot-on. You're looking at some people, who are looking at short-term interest, individual interest that is, over long-term gains for the party.
Now, we know this is going to be a hotly-contested presidential race. We know it's going to be decided, across a few states, with maybe 10 percent of the American overall electorate. It's not enough to just super-size or energize, rather, your base. You're going to have to figure out some kind of way, to increase those margins, by at least 4 percent, nationally, I would argue.
And that does mean, to Nikki Haley's point, reaching out to some of those suburban White moms, where Republicans used to dominate with, a decade ago. It means also targeting some of those low-propensity voters, who may feel that the political climate is completely detached from their current reality. And you are seeing a bit more of that effectively showcased on the Democratic side than the Republican side.
Now, that doesn't mean Republicans don't have an opportunity, on certain issues, such as immigration, such as the economy, to somewhat pivot a little bit on that front. But I don't think they're quite there yet.
COLLINS: That was about as close that you got to a compliment, for Democrats, tonight.
But David Axelrod, we heard from President Biden, earlier. He was asked if he would go to Trump's inauguration, if Trump won the election. And his quote was that yes, he would, because, quote, I have good manners, unlike him. Obviously, Donald Trump famously did not attend his inauguration.
But the other thing Nikki Haley said, tonight, was essentially that Trump is not running against who he's actually facing, that in his mind, he still seems to be acting like he's running against Joe Biden.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY: The one thing Republicans have to stop, don't -- quit whining about her. We knew it was going to be her. She's not going to give an interview. They're going to hold out as long as they can. That's their right. They can do it. That doesn't mean we can't talk about what she believes in. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: David, what do you make of that?
AXELROD: Look, I think Trump is having a really hard time letting go of Joe Biden. He had a whole race that was planned around Joe Biden. He thought Joe Biden was a guy he could beat.
Now, Joe Biden isn't his opponent. His opponent is doing much better. And he feels like somehow he's been cheated, because he didn't get the opponent of his choice. And so, of course, he's, in so many ways, he's his own worst enemy now.
But I have to -- I don't want to disrupt the flow here, Kaitlan. I do have to go back to the initial question, and Shermichael's point.
Because this thing about, well, it's all about power, so you got to go where the power is. It reminds me of what Trump said, many years ago, that he could shoot people on Fifth Avenue, and he could -- and his supporters wouldn't leave him.
There are things you can do that should cause your supporters to leave you. And I think of people like Liz Cheney, and I think of people like Adam Kinzinger, and I think of people, like Jeff Flake, and people who were willing to say, there's something more important than my own political advancement, and the Constitution is one of them.
Actually, Joe Biden should go to the inauguration, not because it's polite, but because we should have peaceful transfers of power in this country. And if Donald Trump wins, and it's adjudged that he won, then it's certified that he won? Then he is the President of the United States. I mean, Joe Biden is an institutionalist. He believes in those institutions.
COLLINS: Yes.
AXELROD: So, I understand why he would go.
COLLINS: Yes. And it is remarkable to go back to this, Leah, if you look at this.
If I, if we were sitting here, the day of Trump's, the impeachment vote in the Senate, in 2021, and Richard Burr had just voted to convict that he was guilty, and I told you, actually, in four years, you're going to see -- in three years, you're going to see Richard Burr say, actually, I'm going to vote for that guy to put him back in the White House, would you have been surprised by it?
I mean, just, if you didn't think he was guilty, don't vote that way. A lot of Republicans didn't. But to have voted that way, and then still believe he should be in the Oval Office, is quite a remarkable turnaround.
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: I actually wouldn't have been surprised in the slightest. And that is in part, because immediately following that vote, in the weeks ensuing that came after that, we saw so many people do about-faces.
There was a very concerted effort, not just on the part of the Trump team, or the former Trump administration, but really, a much broader circle of influencers, of scholars, of political lobbyists, to really whitewash what happened on January 6th, what happened, in terms of various impeachment hearings, to really do something different, when it came to Donald Trump.
[21:15:00]
And I think as part of that, what we saw is a number of people, who came out and said, this is absolutely unacceptable, we cannot have the President of the United States behaving in this way. Ultimately, turned around and said, You know what? This is the standard-bearer of my party, and I have to get in line. And that's what we're seeing right now.
COLLINS: Well, yes, and it wasn't that long ago that Nikki Haley, when she was running, of course, against him, was saying, people aren't going to vote for a convicted felon. But now, she's in that position of saying she's going to do that because she disagrees with Biden on the policies. But it is remarkable just to see that.
And I understand the cold, hard political calculus of where we are, and how we view things.
MILLS: Yes.
COLLINS: But if you're an outsider, watching this, it's pretty head- spinning.
MILLS: The reality is, is that the policies of Donald Trump and his MAGA party, do not reflect suburban women. They don't reflect most of America. You've got abortion on the ballot, in a lot of places, right now. This total assault on women does not resonate even with conservative women, as we've seen play out in the country, over the last two years.
And so, there's just a mismatch, I think, in the values of the modern- day Republican Party, under Trump, and the rest of the people. And that's why you're seeing so many problems.
COLLINS: It is remarkable to see.
Thank you both for being here.
Shermichael, David Axelrod, as well.
Up next. The United Auto Workers Union is now taking action against Donald Trump and Elon Musk, for what you heard, last night, during that a little bit glitchy conversation that finally took place. Now filing charges, federal charges against them.
We're going to hear from the UAW chief, and his response. Shawn Fain is here next.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, one of the biggest unions in America is taking on Donald Trump, with the United Auto Workers Union, accusing Donald Trump, of illegally threatening to intimidate striking workers.
They filed federal labor charges against both Donald Trump and Elon Musk, for comments they made, during that glitchy talk, initially, last night, that happened on X.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You, you're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what you do. You walk in (laughter). You just say, 'you want to quit?' They go on strike.
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA MOTORS: Yes.
TRUMP: They -- I won't mention the name of the company, but they go on strike. And you say, 'That's OK. You're all gone. You're all gone.' So every one of you is gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You heard Musk saying there, laughing, replying, yes, as Donald Trump made that comment.
Now that happened not long before the Democratic vice presidential candidate, Tim Walz, was out at his first solo event today, and happened to be addressing union workers in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trump has said he supports Right to Work, a 100 percent.
(AUDIENCE BOOING)
WALZ: I saw our friend, Shawn Fain, at the UAW. Had a name for that. He called him a scab, just to be clear. That's not name-calling. It's an observation, in fact, just to be clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And the UAW President, Shawn Fain, is my source tonight.
It's great to have you back here on THE SOURCE.
With the UAW now filing these charges, which the Trump campaign is responding to, calling frivolous, tonight. What does happen next here?
SHAWN FAIN, PRESIDENT, UNITED AUTO WORKERS UNION: Hey, thanks for having us, Kaitlan. Look, this is just, it's just more of Donald Trump, and who he is. This is the -- this is the Corporate America playbook, the billionaire playbook. They thumb their nose at labor law. And there's got to come a reckoning, in this country, where the billionaires and the corporate class and employers are held accountable, when they break the law.
It is federal law that workers have a right to strike. And you cannot be fired for striking.
And Donald Trump thumbs his nose at the law. I mean, there's another theme coming out. I called Donald Trump a scab, because that's what he is. But there's been the word thrown around here recently, about weird. And you know what? That ticket is just completely weird.
If you listen to Trump and Musk, how they laugh, how they laugh about how Musk fires people, and how Donald Trump loves to talk about his favorite two words, you're fired? I mean, who enjoys that? Who takes pride in firing workers?
And that's the problem here. This is a whose-side-are-you-on moment? That's what this election is about.
And we know who Donald Trump stands with. He stands for the billionaire class, and the wealthy.
And Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, they're one of us. They're working- class people, and they're going to stand up for working-class people. And it's a very clear-cut election for us, on whose side we're on.
COLLINS: Well, and you definitely, obviously have made up your mind on that, on who you're endorsing here. But when you look at this, you and I have had this conversation before, about what the rank-and-file are going to do, who have veered toward Republicans.
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: Trump has obviously made overtures to try to get them to vote for him. Sean O'Brien from Teamsters came, and addressed the Republican convention. It was a speech that didn't sound like one you'd probably ever heard at a Republican convention.
But I wonder, when you hear a comment like that, last night, and Elon Musk laughing, if you kind of think it helps you a bit, in trying to get those voters, to come over to where you see the election.
FAIN: Well, I mean, look, this experiment has been tried before, and failed. Donald Trump was a disaster for working-class people.
And you go back to, you know, I go back to 1980, when PATCO and the Teamsters endorsed Ronald Reagan. We know how that worked out. It didn't work out well for working-class people.
And Donald Trump tells us every day who he is, through his actions. He's done it for years. He blamed workers, back in the recession. He's always talked about doing rotation in this country, to drive wages down. He drives a race to the bottom. And working-class people in this country are fed up. They're fed up with being left behind. We have a billionaire class and a corporate class that have gone wild. They're taking all the profits that working-class people generate. And working-class people want their lives back.
So, when you look at these two candidates, between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, it's very clear who stands with working people, and who completely stands against working people.
[21:25:00]
Donald Trump has a track record of always doing nothing for working- class people. He was President in 2019. Auto plants were closing in America.
COLLINS: Yes.
FAIN: He did nothing to stop it.
COLLINS: Biden always touted himself as the most pro-union president. Now that it's Harris at the top of the ticket, and you're trying to reverse the inroads that Republicans have made with voters, with union workers. How do you do that?
FAIN: Well, I mean, I think it's talking facts. I mean, it's very clear to us. Look, in our Big Three fight, we've dealt with facts, about the corporations made a quarter of a trillion dollars, in the last decade, while worker wages remained stagnant.
It's no different, in this presidential race. When you look at -- when you put these two candidates side by side?
I mean, Donald Trump left workers behind in 2019, when he was president. Lordstown Assembly workers in Ohio, their plant closed. Donald Trump said, don't sell your houses. And he did nothing. Those workers got sent all over the country, to try to find work.
And under Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, they put a battery plant, in Lordstown, Ohio. Those workers are now coming home. They're coming back to Lordstown. The workers that Trump left behind. That's just one example of many. They saved a dying community in Belvidere, Illinois.
You think about, in 2019, when GM workers were on strike for 40 days. Donald Trump was President. He did nothing and said nothing. You know who was standing on the picket line with those workers? Kamala Harris was, shoulder-to-shoulder, with striking workers.
So, there's a very clear contrast here. And I believe we're going to keep putting the facts out there, for our members. And this is an opinion. This isn't party politics, as we tell our workers. These are these two candidates, in their own words, and their own actions. And it's a very clear picture of who stands with working-class people--
COLLINS: Yes.
FAIN: --and who stands for billionaires.
COLLINS: Well, I have to also get your reaction to -- this is not just against Donald Trump. This is Trump and Elon Musk, who was the person in that conversation, and would be the person--
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --who has the employees. He responded to these charges today, and said--
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --quote, "The last two UAW presidents went to prison for bribery & corruption and, based on recent news, it looks like this guy will join them."
Of course, he's referencing an investigation, a monitor overseeing the union, and -- into you.
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: But I should note, the last two UAW presidents, who preceded you, did not go to prison. It was two earlier chiefs--
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --who led the union in the late 20--
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --2010s that did serve time, on corruption convictions.
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: But I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that tweet from Elon Musk.
FAIN: Well, first off, it's just more of the same. And I find it ironic. I mean, first off, obviously, by Musk comment, he doesn't know what he's talking about, just like Donald Trump. They're all talk.
But secondly, I find it truly pathetic that Elon Musk, who is paying his lapdog, Donald Trump, $45 million a month, to try to buy the election, is, you know -- and he's got a person in Donald Trump, a candidate, who was just convicted by a jury of his peers that his legal team helped pick, on 34 counts, on 34 felony counts. This just more of the same with these people. They think they're above the law.
And at the end of the day, look, in the UAW, we changed to having direct elections. And membership voted to have direct elections. They've elected new leadership, of which I'm a part of that team.
And look, we're coming after corporations. We're going after corporate greed. And we're going to fight for the working-class. And that's what we've been doing. And that's the problem with the Musk and the Trumps of the world. They don't like it, when working-class people want their fair share.
And they're trying to make this about me, because all they care about is they want to make everything about them. This isn't about me. And it's not about them.
It's about working-class people in this country that have been left behind. And that's what this election is going to come down to. And that's why I believe a majority of Americans, a huge majority, will vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and I should note, Elon Musk said that it wasn't true, he was giving Trump, $45 million a month. We'll see. He didn't say what the actual number of that may look like.
Though, it is notable to see Trump and Elon Musk having this conversation, as Trump rails against electric cars in almost every rally he has.
FAIN: Yes.
COLLINS: Shawn Fain, we'll leave it there. Thank you for joining tonight.
FAIN: Hey, thank you very much.
COLLINS: Up next. Trump is launching a new attack, on Vice President Harris, when it comes to immigration, questions about her past positions, and how she handles them, now that she's at the top of the ticket.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, Donald Trump continues to bank on fear, as a winning message, attacking Kamala Harris over immigration, in a new interview with Univision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They come from prisons. They come from mental institutions.
We're like a dumping ground. And we have people like Kamala Harris, who is incompetent, and people like that are running. Now she's saying, oh, she was tough on the border. Before, she just had open borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I should note, we've asked many times, his campaign has not offered any evidence about his claims about mental institutions.
But the campaign did share this meme today that you're looking at now, in an effort to convince voters that the Democratic ticket is weaker on the issue than Trump is. To counter those attacks, the Harris campaign is going on offense. They put out a new ad, to confront what is seen as one of her biggest vulnerabilities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As president, she will hire thousands more border agents and crack down on fentanyl and human trafficking. Fixing the border is tough. So is Kamala Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next source is a Democrat, who turned immigration around on Republicans. Congressman Tom Suozzi won his New York House race, this year, in part after leading into the issue, on the campaign trail. And he joins me now.
And immigration has not always been the strongest issue for your party. It's been politically perilous, at times. What is your advice, based on how your campaign went here in New York? And obviously, this is on a national scale. But what do you think she should do? How should she run on this issue?
[21:35:00]
REP. TOM SUOZZI (D-NY): I think she's doing the right thing, right now. The fact that she came out with this commercial, the fact that she's been speaking about it at her rallies, and she's been talking about the need to secure the border.
I mean, the best politician, the best elected official, is the one, who says what the people are thinking already. And people are talking about the border. That's a real issue. It's much better than it was just a few months ago, before the President's executive order. But people are still very concerned about the border.
So, when I was running my campaign, people -- consultants would say: Hey, this is a Republican issue. You got to be careful. Why are you talking about this?
It's not a Republican issue. It's an American issue. It's what the American people are talking about. We have to take a position. And our position, my position was, we have to secure the border.
COLLINS: So, if consultants or advisers are saying to her, talk about it, but don't talk about it too much. You think that it's better to just talk about it head-on?
SUOZZI: Absolutely. This is what the people are talking about -- you know, you look at any national poll, you talk to people at the diner. And they're talking about the border. They're talking about cost of living, and they're talking about the border. And that's what the candidate should be talking about.
COLLINS: What we hear from every Republican we have on this show is calling her the border czar. And, obviously, we've seen the White House push back. That was not her title. She was in charge of the Northern Triangle. They clarified that at the time, I remember, because I was covering the White House then.
But if the label sticks, in the minds of voters, how do you think that -- well, how does the Harris campaign deal with that? Because what they can say is, well, she's -- saying she's going to fix the border. But she's in charge of it, technically, right now, because she is Vice President of the United States. She's in power now.
SUOZZI: OK. Well, people don't think the Vice President is in charge of that much. The President's in charge. But the--
COLLINS: Do you think voters draw that distinction?
SUOZZI: Yes, I think they do. I think the voters are pretty smart, actually.
And did she have a responsibility? Yes, her responsibility was to work on El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, to see what the root causes of why people were leaving the Northern Triangle, and coming to America, in big numbers.
And she did work on that. And the numbers are much better now than they used to be. Because she worked with those governments. She got investment in those areas. And the numbers have come down dramatically, of the people fleeing from those countries, coming to our southern border.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, the other thing, and you know this well. Politicians, everyone's always looking at your past statements, your past positions on something.
And the 2020 Democratic primary was remarkable, because it was just this race to the left. I mean, Biden was really the candidate--
SUOZZI: Yes.
COLLINS: --he was stuck in his position. He obviously -- it fared well for him.
But what Republicans have continued to look at is what she said during that primary, about several border issues.
Just a reminder of several of the stances that she took.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you become President, would you be committing to close immigration detention centers?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely, on day one.
Listen, I think there's no question that we've got to critically reexamine ICE and its role, and the way that it is being administered, and the work it is doing. MEGHAN MCCAIN, BLOGGER: I believe if someone crosses over the border, it's -- illegally, it is illegal. And you would -- you would decriminalize it?
HARRIS: I would not make it a crime punishable by jail. It should be a civil enforcement issue, but not a criminal enforcement issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, when she addresses reversals on several of those issues that we've heard from her campaign. How do you articulate that as a politician?
SUOZZI: Well, the first thing is when, if you're the Republicans, if you're Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, talking about reversal of positions, let's look at their records and all the things that they've reversed.
As you've said before, in your show, J.D. Vance said that Trump was the Hitler of America. So, I mean, that, talk about a reversal?
COLLINS: Lot of flip-flops to go around here.
SUOZZI: Tons of flip-flops everywhere.
And one of the big problems in America these days is everybody panders to the base. They're trying to please the base. The Republicans try to please the far-right. The Democrats try to please the far-left too often.
And I think the American people are sick of that. They want us to talk about the things that they care about. And the people are somewhere in the middle. Can't you just work together to solve the problem?
And I think that Vice President Harris, in this campaign, is making it clear that she wants to bring people together, to find compromise, to find common ground, to solve the problems we face, like the border.
There's two sides of that. We have to secure the border, and we have to treat people like human beings. You could do both those things. That's what the American people actually want us to be doing.
COLLINS: And you think that's a winning message for November?
SUOZZI: I know that's a winning message. That's what the people want. The people want us to secure the border. They don't want -- they want order at the border. And they want us to treat people like human beings.
Especially, you think about the DREAMers, who have been here for decades. Came here as little kids. Now, they're 25- -- 30-years-old, and they have a full-time job, or in college, or they're in the military. Give them a break. Give them a chance to stay here.
COLLINS: Congressman Tom Suozzi, great to have you.
SUOZZI: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you for being here.
Up next -- we'll talk about George Santos, next time you're here, OK?
SUOZZI: OK.
COLLINS: What Donald Trump is now revealing about the hack on his campaign. We've been following this investigation. It includes information that he claims, he says the information that was compromised, was boring.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A 2020 election-denying Republican county clerk has just been found guilty of election tampering. Yes, you heard that right.
A Colorado jury convicted Tina Peters, today, on seven counts, finding that she allowed a former surfer turned computer expert, as the Court put it, to access and copy election system hard drives, after Donald Trump lost in 2020.
Prosecutors in court, argued that Peters' actions were designed to impress the fellow election-denier, and the MyPillow CEO, Mike Lindell.
Believe it or not, Peters actually ran to be Colorado's Secretary of State.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA PETERS, POLITICIAN: I'm Mesa County Clerk, Tina Peters. Don't you think Colorado deserves more transparency in our elections? I'm running to be your Secretary of State, to make that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Tina Peters lost that race, and now has lost her election tampering case as well.
[21:45:00]
My source, tonight, is Chris Krebs, the Chief Public Policy Officer at SentinelOne, who was fired from his position at Homeland Security, by Donald Trump, after he vowed that the 2020 election was indeed safe and secure.
It's great to have you back.
Just on this case, for a moment, prosecutors described her as a fox guarding the henhouse. And obviously, this was one time, one instance.
But as we're three months out from the election, I wonder how worried you are that we could see other instances, where these local election officials are doing things like this.
CHRIS KREBS, CHIEF PUBLIC POLICY OFFICER, SENTINELONE, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: Hey, to be clear, there are ongoing cases, in other jurisdictions, including Irving Township, Michigan, as well as Roscommon County, Michigan--
COLLINS: Yes.
KREBS: --and Coffee County, Georgia.
So, this is not a one-off. There are other cases. And my hope is that this is a strong signal to others that may engage in this sort of behavior. And it's a deterrence measure.
Since 2020, insider threat has been a top concern of law enforcement and other organizations involved in election security. And again, we needed this, this signal, I think, to those folks that may be thinking about it, and say, Hey, don't do it. You're going to land in jail.
COLLINS: Yes, remarkable to hear that that's a top concern for these officials, who are also monitoring attempted foreign interference in the -- interference in the election, which we're watching this week.
Because on this FBI investigation into the alleged hack of the Trump campaign, Trump did an interview with Univision, earlier, where he pinned the blame on Iran.
But I want everyone to listen to what he said in that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've been briefed. And a lot of people think it was Iran. Probably was.
I think it's pretty boring information. And we know pretty much what it is. It's not very important information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: First off, do you believe it was just boring information? I mean, do they really know at this point?
KREBS: I honestly have no idea whether a vetting file for the vice presidential candidate, which is what I understand the information that was provided to Politico, Washington Post and New York Times, I don't know if it's boring or not.
But it doesn't matter. Because what we have is foreign threats, foreign actors targeting U.S. elections, once again. This is now ongoing, frankly, for a couple decades. If you remember, the McCain campaign was hacked, back in the day.
So, this is an increasing threat. We have threat actors inside and out, that are coming after our democracy, and to -- seeking to disrupt our electoral process. COLLINS: Trump talked about how he was briefed. What does a briefing like that, when they're still very much investigating this, what does that even look like?
KREBS: Yes, so, there's going to be a vendor that's providing email services. In this case, it sounds like it's Microsoft. It's very likely that incident responders and leadership from Microsoft probably came in and briefed the team.
And it's not clear if they directly would have briefed the President. But they certainly briefed the technology leads, and the information security leads, provided them the findings, thus far, on their incident response activities. And then, that team, likely, and those advisers, likely, then briefed the President.
But that investigation is ongoing. They're trying to understand the scope of the information. Hopefully, the campaign had the appropriate logs, and they got the right package from Microsoft, so that they could have extended logs, that they could review, so they could understand the extent of the information, if accessed, what was taken.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and the other aspect of this is, when they went after Hillary Clinton's emails, they went inside the campaign, to John Podesta, a spear phishing email--
KREBS: Yes.
COLLINS: --when it came to his password.
This time, they went to Roger Stone. And he was informed by Microsoft, and the FBI, that his personal email was compromised, by a foreign state actor.
What do you make of them going to someone, who may not have an DJT email address?
KREBS: Well, I think that they probably went after a bunch of other folks too. This is not a particularly precise single-actor targeting activity by the Iranians, I suspect.
I bet they kind of took a spray-and-pray effort to get as many different folks that are within the first or second circle of the campaign, so they could get a foothold, start sending spear phishing emails to senior officials, that are actually a part of the campaign, and they could then get inside and get to some of that sensitive information.
I would also note that this likely is happening to the Biden and the Harris, the -- previously the Biden campaign, and now the Harris campaign as well. It is not one campaign. It is multiple actors, going after all campaigns, and probably down at the Senate level as well, multiple -- several of those campaigns have probably been targeted as well.
COLLINS: Yes. It's a good point about the Senate and the House races, and looking at those as well. We'll continue to monitor this obviously.
Chris Krebs, thank you very much for joining with your expertise.
KREBS: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: There's also been another twist in a saga we've been following closely of the Olympic gymnast, Jordan Chiles. What we have learned about one of the judges, who stripped away her bronze medal.
The Olympic gold medalist, and Magnificent Seven member, Dominique Dawes, is my next source.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, there are new revelations in that Olympic-size drama over the American gymnast, Jordan Chiles, who was stripped of her bronze medal. We're now learning that the head of the panel, who ruled against her, has actually represented Romania, in legal cases, for almost a decade.
Now, just to back up and tell you how we got here. She, of course, was awarded the bronze medal, for her floor exercise in Paris, after her coach appealed her score.
Romania challenged the appeal, saying it was made four seconds too late, and the panel ultimately sided with Romania.
Later, Team USA presented time-stamped evidence, to show the appeal did happen in time. But the panel said that rules don't allow them to reconsider it, after the fact.
[21:55:00]
Joining me, tonight, is someone who understands what it's like to compete on the USA Gymnastics Team. Three-time Olympian, four-time Olympic medalist, and winner of the bronze medal on the floor, at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, the same medal that I should note was stripped from Chiles, this time.
Dominique Dawes, may be better-known to some as Awesome Dawesome, joins me now.
And it's so great to have you here.
But on this moment, I mean, I can't even imagine the devastation that she must feel, and must have felt, as this decision -- this decision happened. What do you think was going through her mind?
DOMINIQUE DAWES, FORMER U.S. OLYMPIC GYMNAST: Well, she's definitely going through an emotional roller coaster right now. I mean, Jordan Chiles knows that she did the best floor routine that she could do, at that time. And she did the job to earn a bronze medal finish. However, it was definitely human error. The judge missed that difficulty of her dance element, didn't give her that additional tenth. However, the head coach recognized it, right away, appealed. Her score got rewarded, that additional tenth. And that's why she was on the podium, experiencing that Olympic medal ceremony.
And everyone remembers that so much, because of that iconic image, with three Black athletes, female athletes, on the Olympic podium, first, second and third place. However, that's now all going to be changed, since she's now going to have to get back that bronze medal.
But it's definitely an emotional roller coaster for Jordan. But she should hold her head up high, knowing that she did her job.
COLLINS: Well, and the sense is right now that this can't be reversed, that this is the final decision. Is that your understanding of it as well?
DAWES: That is my understanding. However, things may change tomorrow, you never know.
I mean, I think I read something today, and heard from a couple of people that even Flavor Flav has come up with a bronze medal to give to Jordan (inaudible) to give this bronze medal back.
But what I did read is she does have to return it, I believe, sometime this week, and they are not going to give another look at this case.
However, it's baffling to hear that there is proof that the American judge did get there, within 45 seconds, well under the allotted 60 seconds of time, to appeal the score. So, it's very frustrating.
However, just think about this. We're talking about a bronze medal finish, at the end of the Olympic Games. We're normally talking about the champions. We should be talking about -- and of course, Simone -- Jordan Chiles is amazing.
But you would think that everyone would be talking about Simone Biles, or Katie Ledecky, or these other amazing feats of these athletes that ended up on top of the podium. However, because of a mistake of a judge, and this appeal process, we're talking about her bronze medal finish on the floor exercise.
COLLINS: Yes. And I'm so glad you brought up Flavor Flav, because he created -- it's a clock, it's this necklace, of course, that he created for her. Her mom responded, saying that it meant the world.
DAWES: Yes.
COLLINS: To just see someone coming out, supporting her, saying this, because she has obviously really struggled. She's been very public about that, with the backlash--
DAWES: Yes.
COLLINS: --that she has seen, and online, racism and sexism, but just backlash overall, and talking about how she had to get offline, essentially to prioritize her mental health.
DAWES: I did read that. And my advice to Jordan Chiles, not that she asking for it, but I really wouldn't listen to the comments, and what people that are not a part of your support system, are saying online. Social media -- use social media, but don't let it use you.
And so, while she's putting out posts and things of that nature, no need to lean on the comments, for validation, or appreciation, or to experience any type of recognition. Get that from your support, from your parents, your family, your friends, your loved ones, your coaches. That's who she should care about, is who's going to lend a supporting hand to her, for sure.
COLLINS: Yes. Use social media, but don't let social media use you. I think that's probably a great advice that everyone could use.
DAWES: Thank you.
COLLINS: Dominique Dawes, it was great to have you. And just also, everyone remembers your amazing accomplishments at the Olympics. Thank you for joining us, tonight, on this.
DAWES: Well, thank you for those memories in Atlanta, Georgia. I had a wonderful time.
COLLINS: Yes, a special place in, from all our hearts here at CNN. Thank you so much.
DAWES: Yes.
COLLINS: And before we go tonight, I do want to leave you with a story that I shared, last night, with Stephen Colbert. We told you that I was going to be on his show, last night.
We talked about the day that President Biden dropped out of the 2024 race, what that moment is like, for political reporters, in the moment, as everyone was processing it, and really in the aftermath, just those few moments, what it was like, all from the backseat of an Uber.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We wanted to know what was Trump's reaction to this major news that has totally changed the presidential race for him.
So, I called Donald Trump. And I don't have my headphones, so I put it on speaker, in the backseat.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: And I'm -- I'm writing down his quotes.
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS: The guy doesn't know who you are or anything?
COLLINS: No, no. No, no. The Uber driver, like -- and Trump's voice is like, booming through, like he knows why I'm calling, and what quotes I wanted.
[22:00:00]
The Uber driver is like, turning around, he is like, so confused.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: He's like, looking at me, he's looking at my phone. He's like, is that whose voice I think that is?
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: And I just, like, sprinted out of the Uber, and like, eight hours later, when we got off air, I like, checked the app, to make sure I tipped him and.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: Hopefully, he gave, I don't know, maybe--
COLBERT: You looked at.
COLLINS: --gave me one star, maybe five, TBD.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Still don't know. I'm hoping for five stars and not one star. We'll see.
Thank you all so much, for joining us, tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
