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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Says He'll Keep The Affordable Care Act Unless He Can Come Up With Something Better; Walz Agrees, But Vance Hasn't Committed To Oct. 1 VP Debate; Disney Wants Lawsuit Over Woman's Death After Restaurant Visit Tossed Because Widower Agreed To Disney+ Terms In 2019. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 14, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, I mean, this is somebody -- from what we can tell, is not a very sophisticated person, when it comes trying to commit alleged crimes, right? I mean, if you look at his criminal history, this is something that is more like retail crime, back in California.
So, as you pointed out, Anderson, no attempt to try to hide his identity. No one who would be trained would be doing these types of activities.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Right.
All right, Evan Perez. Thanks very much.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Donald Trump turning a policy message into a personal attack, ranting about magazine covers, Vice President Harris' laugh, and suggesting that President Biden could disrupt Democrats' convention.
A top Harris ally, Senator Mark Kelly, is here.
And with just days to go before that convention, Vice President Harris is still rising in the polls, tonight. Our favorite CNN data guru says it looks like it's for real.
And this story that has so many people talking tonight, a grieving husband suing Disney, over his wife's death, but the theme park says he can't, because he once signed up for a Disney+ free trial. We have new reaction from Disney, tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
It was supposed to be a big speech on the economy. At least that's how it was touted anyway. But Donald Trump pulled a Donald Trump, for the third time in a week, veering off message, this time, in North Carolina, a state that I should note, he won by a single percentage point in 2020.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now they are putting her on the covers of Time Magazine.
Her running mate, he wants tampons in boys' bathrooms.
What happened to her laugh? That's the laugh of a crazy person.
This incompetent socialist lunatic.
The worst vice president in history. Kamala. You're fired. Get out of here. Go. Get out of here.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was the speech focused on the economy, I say, third time in a week, because, as you may remember, this was another attempt at a reset that really did not materialize.
There was that glitchy, rambling, two-and-a-half hour conversation that happened with Elon Musk on Monday.
The news conference that happened at Mar-a-Lago, last Thursday.
And now we are told we are expecting another press conference, tomorrow. Perhaps the former President will talk about what we saw him do earlier today. This is worth noting. He voted early, in his home state of Florida. That comes after Donald Trump recently likened early voting to stealing the vote, and has had mixed messages on it throughout his campaign.
Our lead source, tonight, is Arizona senator, Mark Kelly, who was on Harris' vice presidential shortlist, and is a close ally of her campaign.
And Senator, it's great to have you here tonight.
Because this was obviously and apparently meant to be a kind of a prebuttal to the economic speech that Harris is going to be giving, in North Carolina, on Friday. And given today, Trump claimed that she was going to copy his economic plan. How specific do you want her to be on Friday?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, I expect her to be rather specific and focus on the issues that matter to the American people. I mean, we don't get that from Donald Trump, like ever. I mean, he is focused on name-calling, saying things that people don't understand. His speech is now sometimes slurred, and he's very hard to follow.
And the amount of excitement that's behind the Harris-Walz campaign is just off the charts. Gabby and I were in Glendale, just on Friday, and got to experience that. And there's a tremendous amount of energy. But I listened very closely to what she had to say. And Kamala Harris is about taking this country forward.
I think people are starting to see that Donald Trump is a relic of the past that just wants to drag us backwards.
COLLINS: Well, the economy obviously has been a big strong point, for Donald Trump, throughout this campaign. He gave this speech, today, probably on what was the best day for the Biden economic team.
And so, given that, given what you did here, and when he says she's going to copy him, he's talking about when she says, she's going to -- she also wants to abolish federal taxes on tips. So, what do you expect that to look like?
KELLY: Well, I mean, I know what it looks like for Donald Trump. I mean, he, in his four years in office, he cut taxes for billionaires, and big corporations, a $1.7 trillion tax cut. So, if you're a billionaire, I mean, Donald Trump is a good deal for you.
But if you're an everyday American, that's just trying to make ends meet, put groceries on the table, gas in the car. Kamala Harris is trying to move this country in the right direction, on those issues, and so many others.
[21:05:00]
Project 2025, folks are hearing a lot about this. And in that plan, it specifically addressed the Inflation Reduction Act that reduces the price of prescription drugs for seniors. They want to undo this.
Kamala Harris wants to make health care more affordable, child care more affordable, education more affordable.
So, the contrast between the two candidates cannot be more obvious.
And I'm excited about seeing Kamala Harris win the State of Arizona. Think that's very possible. It's going to be a close election. But we're going to work really hard to make it happen.
COLLINS: Well, you talk about the economy, and what this is going to look like.
The speech also, as I noted, had a ton of personal attacks against her. Trump said she wasn't smart. She wasn't intelligence.
He had a moment, where he talked about her laugh, extensively. This is what he said about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Her laugh is career-threatening. They said, Don't laugh. She hasn't laughed. She doesn't laugh anymore. It's smart. But someday, it's going to come out. That's the laugh of a person with some big problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: I don't think she has stopped laughing, totally. I mean, I'm not totally sure what to make of that. But if you're a voter, and you are worried about prices at the grocery store, I wonder what you think they make of hearing that in the economic speech.
KELLY: Well, I think they see a convicted felon, trying to make fun of an experienced prosecutor, somebody who served as attorney general, as a United States senator, now as Vice President, will be our -- is our future president. And I think they get it. I mean, that's all he has. I mean, all he has is insults, xenophobia, racism, taking away rights from women, fundamental rights.
We're going to see that restored here, hopefully, thanks to a ballot initiative that got over a half a million signatures. I mean, that's going to be on the ballot, here in Arizona, because women are tired of Donald Trump.
He ripped away a fundamental right from them. And now, women and men are going to go to the ballot to restore that. The American people see the difference. And for that reason, I am confident that she's going to get elected.
COLLINS: Well, and what you're talking about is the major news, in your home state that this fall, we will see voters, in Arizona, decide on whether to enshrine the right to an abortion and abortion protections, I should note, in the state constitution.
The question is whether or not it gives your party the edge, in some key races that are happening. Not just the presidential race. But also, there's a key Senate seat they're hoping. Democrats are hoping to flip two House seats there. Do you believe it will give Democrats the edge in November?
KELLY: I mean, that's not what's important here. I mean, what's important is we have the opportunity, to restore a right that Donald Trump has made very clear that he took this away. He said he broke Roe v. Wade. And because of that, Arizona has been swinging back and forth between one abortion ban and another, and doctors have left the state.
I mean, OB-GYNs have left Arizona for other states. It has had a dramatic and negative effect on health care for women, here. I've got two daughters and a granddaughter, who now have fewer rights than my mother or grandmother did. So what's -- this is an opportunity to restore those rights.
Now, is it going to affect who shows up and votes? I hope so. I mean, I think Democrats are probably going to show up at a higher rate.
But statewide elections, in Arizona, and this is a statewide election, just like my Senate race, governor's race, the presidential, they tend to be very close. So, we have a lot of work to do. And it's not only to get Kamala Harris across the finish line. It's so Ruben Gallego wins that Senate seat against Kari Lake. And this restoration of abortion rights passes.
COLLINS: Do you have any issue with what the Arizona Supreme Court ruled today that those pamphlets, about the measure, can refer to a fetus, as a quote, unborn human being?
KELLY: I think Arizonans are going to see through this. I mean, they know what's at stake here. They'll be able to read both sides of this ballot initiative, and they're clearly going to get it.
COLLINS: OK. Let me ask you about Medicare for All. Because you talked about what Harris' positions are now. You mentioned health care. One thing that she has gone after Donald Trump for, is saying that he will repeal the Affordable Care Act, if he gets back in office, or at least he'll try.
This is what he said, about that, in North Carolina, today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to keep the Affordable Care Act, unless we can do something much better. We'll keep it. It stinks. It's not good.
She goes around saying, ooh, he's going to get rid of the health -- no, no. I'm going to keep it, unless we can come up with something that's better for you and less expensive for you. Otherwise, we're not doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is a point that she has gone after him on. He's claiming he won't do it. I think what his answer was, was kind of ambiguous.
But when Harris ran in 2019, as for the Democratic nomination, she supported a version of Medicare for All, which is one of four positions, notable ones, that she says -- her campaign says she no longer supports.
[21:10:00]
Do you think it would be helpful for the Vice President, to directly address voters, about why her views have changed on supporting a single-payer health insurance system?
KELLY: Well, let me start with Donald Trump. I mean, could anybody really understand what he's talking about there, and how he swings wildly, back and forth, incoherently, between one position and another? I mean, it's rather -- it's rather comical, and it's certainly hard to follow.
I think what Kamala Harris stands for, and has always stood for, is that the American people have access to quality, affordable health care. That's why she was behind the Inflation Reduction Act that helped bring down the price of prescription drugs for seniors. Insulin at $35 a month.
Insulin used to cost American families hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month. And it's because of her leadership that the American people have more affordable prescription drugs, especially seniors. Out-of-pocket expenses are coming down to $2,000 a year. Donald Trump wants to take that away from the American people. Not only is he -- talks specifically about the Inflation Reduction Act, and why he wants to repeal it. But his Project 2025, as well, that the American people are just learning about, that's one of the platforms in that legislation -- in that plan, along with a lot of other bad things.
COLLINS: I have to ask you about something before we go that confounded me, personally, what I heard about yesterday, which is that the former governor of your home state, Doug Ducey, who Trump pressured to overturn the 2020 election, famously, said yesterday he's going to vote for Trump, despite that. He's also going to vote for Kari Lake, for that Senate seat in Arizona. She's also an election denier.
What do you make of that announcement?
KELLY: Yes, I heard that yesterday as well. I don't get it. I've heard, you know, I know Doug -- Governor Doug Ducey. I know him fairly well. He stood up for Arizona voters, against Donald Trump, in the election in 2020. I give him a lot of credit for doing that. Was not an easy thing to do.
But to see him do a 180 now, and support the guy that tried to disenfranchise millions of Arizonans, and disenfranchise our democracy? I just don't -- I just don't understand it.
COLLINS: Senator Mark Kelly. Thank you, for your time, tonight.
KELLY: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We are digging into brand-new numbers, polls that show Harris taking the lead ever so slightly. We're going to go inside those, and show you where this race stands, as we are days out from the convention.
As Donald Trump tonight says the election was taken from Biden, while also claiming New York is trying to steal the election from him. Maggie Haberman is here.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A lot has happened in the last month. Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt, of course. President Biden then exited the 2024 race. And then Vice President Harris rose to the top of the Democratic ticket, while embracing brat summer.
Now, with the Democratic National Convention, in Chicago, just five days away, we're getting a clearer sense of where this race stands. And it's not exactly the picture that Donald Trump has been painting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now we have some very good polls coming out. So, that's good. You know, considering the fact that they -- what they do, I mean what they do, what the fake news is able to do. And yet, we are leading.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: CNN's Senior Political Data Reporter, Harry Enten, is here.
And Harry, obviously, when Trump was in North Carolina today, I kept hearing him say, he actually thinks the polls are good for him, that things are going well. What do the--
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: That's nice.
COLLINS: What do the numbers to show?
ENTEN: I mean, look, I like to keep things simple, Kaitlan Collins. Keep them simple.
So, let's take a look at all the national polls that were conducted this month that made CNN standards for publication. And what do we see in those eight polls? What we see is Kamala Harris leads in six of those polls. Donald Trump leads in just two of those polls.
Now, yes, there are some of those polls which are within the margin of error. But overall, what we're seeing is that more often Kamala Harris has a higher share of the vote in the national polls than Donald Trump does. And of course, that's vastly different from what we saw, when Joe Biden was in the race, when Trump was leading in the majority of of polls.
COLLINS: Yes, and that was only increasing, as we got closer--
ENTEN: Correct.
COLLINS: --to when Biden actually got out of the race.
But we talk about the blue wall.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: This ever-important area, these several states that any candidate, who wants to win the White House, needs to win. Specifically, we talk about Pennsylvania a lot.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: We did when she was picking her VP.
What does it look like in that state, for her, right now? How's she faring?
ENTEN: Boy, what a 180 from where we were when Joe Biden was going to be the Democratic nominee.
We look, there have been two polls published this month that meet CNN standards for publication. In both of those polls, including a Quinnipiac University poll that was out, earlier today, Kamala Harris had a higher vote share than Donald Trump did.
You have to go all the way back to March, to find a single poll that would have had Joe Biden leading Donald Trump, in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He led in zero, zero polls, from April until he got out of the race, zero out of six.
And the bottom line is Pennsylvania is where this election is at. So, if you are basically going to say, OK, what is going to be the state that puts someone over the top in the Electoral College? Well, if you plan out that math, what you see is Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. The vast majority of the time, Pennsylvania is the state that puts you over the top in the Electoral College.
[21:20:00]
So, the bottom line is, these polls right now for Kamala Harris, the fact that she's doing so well in Pennsylvania, is illustrative of the fact that she's doing well, in this race overall.
COLLINS: But what is that attributed to?
Because we were just talking with Senator Kelly, about -- she's still got to lay out her economic speech, on Friday. He wants to see specifics on that.
But she's talked a little bit about it, when it comes to raising the minimum wage. But she hasn't said how much she wants to raise the minimum wage to, or what she would do with those Trump tax cuts that are expiring next year.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: What is that attributed to?
ENTEN: I mean, the bottom line is the idea that presidential campaigns are fought over policy, to me, is almost laughable.
Remember, Elizabeth Warren was pulling up -- putting out policy papers, every five seconds, back in the 2020 campaign. I don't believe she won a single state primary. I believe she even came in the third place in her home state of Massachusetts.
So, what is this attributable to? I think voters were just begging for a refreshing voice. There were so many voters, who didn't like Donald Trump, or Joe Biden, the quote-unquote, double haters. And those voters really almost had a Sophie's Choice going into that -- going into this particular election.
And what we see amongst those double haters, right? We see Kamala Harris winning a majority of those folks, who don't like either Joe Biden, or Donald Trump, doing so much better than Joe Biden was amongst that groups. Those people were begging for a change. And Kamala Harris, right now, is providing that change.
COLLINS: It's just interesting, because what if this was reversed? This is, we heard from Ron DeSantis when he was in the race. Nikki Haley, when she was in the race, who said, famously, the first party to replace their 80-year-old candidate is going to win the election. I don't think that they expected then it would be Biden.
ENTEN: I don't think that they expected it to be Biden.
I would say this much. When the American public is saying, a majority of them, that they, simply put, did not want either Joe Biden or Donald Trump, to be the nominees, and then all of a sudden, one of those parties actually made a decision to get their old candidate out of the race? It was that party that was going to benefit.
And the voters, right now, are saying, You know what? We're going to go with the Democratic Party, much more so than they were a month ago, or even a few weeks ago. My God, it hasn't even been a month since Joe Biden got out of the race. And that's what we're seeing, right now, in this polling data. Democrats made a decision. And the voters are rewarding that decision.
COLLINS: It also shows you can trust some of the polling. When we saw this overwhelming polling.
ENTEN: Yes. Thank you.
COLLINS: I know that this is music to your ears.
But that, you know, when voters were saying, we don't like having two candidates in this age?
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: That they meant it.
ENTEN: They absolutely meant it. Voters are honest with pollsters, most of the time. And the bottom line is Donald Trump and Joe Biden disliked the polls, when it wasn't showing what they liked, with -- what they didn't want, and loved it when it does.
And it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Because we still have over two months to go in this campaign. I'm going to be interested to hear if Donald Trump changes his tune on the polls, if the polls start looking a little bit better for him. I bet he does.
COLLINS: Yes. And we'll be checking in with you, after the convention, to see if her bump last in the polls.
ENTEN: We will find out.
COLLINS: Harry Enten, thank you very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: We do have some breaking news tonight. The President of Columbia University has just announced she is resigning, after backlash of her handling, over protests happening, on campus, over Israel's war in Gaza.
Minouche Shafik says that she has decided that moving on, quote, would be best to "Enable Columbia to traverse the challenges ahead."
A notable update there. We'll continue to follow that story, as we learn more from our reporters.
Up next here, on THE SOURCE. Is Donald Trump laying the groundwork to say another election was stolen from him? We'll tell you what he's been saying.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Less than a minute, into Donald Trump's speech today, which was ostensibly focused, on the economy, the former President lamented the major shakeup in the Democratic ticket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Joe Biden is a very angry man. You know that, right?
(CHEERS)
TRUMP: Because they -- they took it away from him. They usurped it. They took it away from him.
She got no votes. And you look at what happens. That's not the way it's supposed to happen. They are a threat to democracy, right, as they say?
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: New York Times Senior Political Correspondent, Maggie Haberman, is here, also a CNN Political Analyst.
This is something he comes back to a lot, is he's like aggrieved for Joe Biden. It's probably the only time he and Joe Biden maybe have had, like, a Venn diagram of agreement.
But I do think there is a concern of if he is moved on, to that, he's facing Harris in this race. Not Joe Biden anymore.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Jonathan Swan, and I, wrote about this, this weekend. It's like he's trying to will this into existence, as if he's trying to get Joe Biden back in the race, and try to run the race that he wants it to be.
And we have seen him do this before, when things have not worked out the way he wants them to. This is what he did during COVID, in 2020, when he would repeatedly talk about how great the economy it was, how great it was, how great it was, how unfair this all is.
OK. Well, but now you have a different future in front of you, and you have to deal with that. And they are wasting time. He is wasting time, I should say. I think his team clearly has more of a sense of how it wants to run against Harris. He seems to be all over the place, and wants to attack her personally, as we got to see it, what was built as an economic speech, earlier today.
COLLINS: Well, and he also said that by putting her at the top of the ticket, that it has defrauded the public, that she's defrauding the public by doing that.
When you hear that, though, I know everyone tries to separate out what Trump means, and what he actually intends to do, but I do think it raises the question of, if he intends to say this was an unfair election, if he loses, because it was someone different at the top of the ticket.
HABERMAN: He's already saying a ton of things that suggest to me that he is seeding the groundwork for saying if he loses, that these are the various reasons why. Whether it is because there was a change in the top of the ticket.
And he keeps saying, they broke the rules, they broke the rules. There were no rules for this. This was a totally new situation. Now, she was on the ticket with Joe Biden. So, she actually did get votes. She just didn't get votes as the presidential nominee. But he is going to blame that.
He is going to blame the legal cases against him. Remember, he's getting sentenced, next month, or scheduled to, in New York. We're already seeing him talk about that.
[21:30:00]
So, yes, I think, he is working the soil. And we have seen him do this before, again, man of few moves, to say, these are all the reasons why I lost, if he did.
COLLINS: Yes, with the New York thing. I mean, he was posting on Truth Social today that because the judge hasn't lifted his gag order, or recused himself, that he's not allowed to talk to reporters, and said that "Must get U.S. Supreme Court involved. New York is trying to steal the Election."
HABERMAN: Right. Everybody's trying to steal the election. Everybody's trying to steal the election by doing things that he doesn't like, in his term -- in his terminology.
Look, I mean, one of the things that we have seen Donald Trump do over and over again is complain about other people not following rules, when he himself then decides what rules he wants to abide by, or what norms he wants to abide by. And that's playing out again.
COLLINS: He -- it was certainly energetic in that speech today. He was--
HABERMAN: He was. COLLINS: When he was saying that she's-fired line, reprising his "Apprentice" role.
J.D. Vance was out on Fox News, earlier. And the Senator was asked about Trump's mood, how he's actually really feeling. And this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he feels extremely confident about how we're doing in the election. I think he's very excited about getting to work and solving the problems for the American people.
But he's just having a good time. He's laughing. He's telling jokes. He calls people, and just wants to, you know, shoot the breeze, and understand what's happening in the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Does that matchup with what you're hearing about how he's actually feeling?
HABERMAN: No, I mean, it doesn't mean that he's not having phone calls that are like that, and it doesn't mean that he's not having moments, when he's like that, because he is capable of both, even when he's in a bad place.
And I think he got into a better place, when Tim Walz was picked, he was feeling better about that than had it been Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania.
But no, I think that he's -- he still is clearly disoriented, and not sure where he wants to go.
I have to say, though, just in terms of that clip from J.D. Vance. Vance has been actually performing, not just the way that they had hoped that he would, in terms of being an attack dog, which is what the VP nominee is supposed to do, historically.
But he's actually delivering a more coherent message than Trump is, about Harris, and about returning to the days of Trump, which polls generally show that voters liked aspects of, liked the economic message.
Trump talking about the economy today is what his advisers wanted him to do, because that's an area that he does well on, against Harris, still. She does better than Biden did against Trump. But that is still one of his calling cards, and he still would prefer to attack.
COLLINS: Yes. And Vance, meanwhile, today was taking questions about inflation--
HABERMAN: Exactly.
COLLINS: --and talking about. HABERMAN: Exactly.
COLLINS: Yes, it was -- there were good numbers for Biden today. But what it meant overall for voters.
On this issue. Trump is going to do another press conference, tomorrow, from a different property, not Mar-a-Lago. He'll be doing it from his Bedminster club.
What is your sense from the campaign of why he's doing these press conferences, but not really doing a lot of rallies? He's only had one that was in Montana, last week.
HABERMAN: I think some of it is about not spending money. I think some of it is about the fact that this is an easy way to contrast with her. I mean, that's the main one. Her being, Kamala Harris. In terms of answering questions.
They are very, very focused on the fact that she's not doing interviews, and she's not doing press conferences, which is an issue that strategists care about, and an issue that almost no voters care about whatsoever. And so, that's fine if that's what they want to talk about.
And it gets him a lot of free media coverage. And breaking into media coverage has been a bit of an obsession of his, and trying to break up her momentum.
Look, she is likely to have another at least 10 good days. We are heading into the convention. It is going to go through--
COLLINS: Yes.
HABERMAN: --the weekend after this one. And that has been vexing to him. He likes inserting himself in the news cycle, as we both know well.
COLLINS: Can we talk about Miriam Adelson?
HABERMAN: Sure.
COLLINS: Because you've been reporting she is a mega donor of mega donors, has -- is supporting Trump. Was at the Republican convention.
But she's going to Mar-a-Lago, this week, meeting with Trump -- or going to Bedminster, this week, and meeting with Trump, after he had the aide, who prints out all of his articles, and clips, and gives them to him, fire off some pretty harsh texts to her.
HABERMAN: So, again, this story that Jonathan Swan, and I, did over the weekend, we had reporting in there that part of -- part of Trump's anger, and how his anger is seeping out, and this sort of erratic behavior that people around him are seeing, and see during times of stress, has been in the form of having his aide, known as the human printer, Natalie Harp, because she carries around a wireless printer, send texts to Miriam Adelson, who is funding a Super PAC to the tune of tens of millions of dollars called Preserve America, saying that it's being run by RINOs.
And I just would like to make a point that one of the people running it is Governor Abbott of Texas' adviser. He's not a RINO. Saying her husband never would have tolerated it. This caused a lot of concern that she was going to scale back her giving.
[21:35:00]
Her advisers found out that Ike Perlmutter, the former Chairman of Marvel Entertainment, who is a Trump ally, and runs a different -- or is involved in a different Super PAC had been ginning up these attacks against her.
So, it's a mess. And it's a mess that Trump-world would like to not be dealing with.
She will be at Bedminster, tomorrow. They are going to meet privately. Clearly, it's not impacting her giving. But this is not a story that any candidate wants to be dealing with.
COLLINS: Yes. Maggie Haberman, thank you.
HABERMAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Great reporting as always.
Up next. One of the campaigns has accepted an invite to the first presidential debate, and issued a dare to the other candidate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The first vice presidential debate is expected to be held, right here, in New York City. But right now, the exact date of that debate is still up in the air.
[21:40:00]
What we know, tonight, is that CBS News has extended the invitation to the due -- two VP candidates, today, proposing four potential dates that prompted a decisive response from Governor Tim Walz, who said, "See you on October 1, JD."
The campaign then followed up with a taunt, saying, "Governor Walz looks forward to debating JD Vance -- if he shows up."
So, the question is, will we see this?
Vance, tonight, remained uncommitted on the specifics, while reiterating he does want to debate Governor Walz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I strongly suspect we're going to be there on October the 1st. But we're not going to do one of these fake debates, Laura, where they don't actually have an audience there, where they don't actually set the parameters in a right way, where you can have a good exchange of ideas. In other words, we're not going to run and walk into a fake news media garbage debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to discuss with tonight's political experts that are here.
David Urban, let me start with you. Because you're seeing how the Harris campaign is responding to this.
J.D. Vance is saying they only had a few hours of a heads-up, as they were sussing out what they're going to say back to this.
Do you think we'll ultimately see the two of them, on that debate stage, on October 1st?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: Yes, I think you will. And I think Senator Vance will comport himself very well.
As you -- as Maggie Haberman noted, in the previous segment, out on the -- out on the campaign trail, he's been doing an incredibly good job, his message discipline, and talking about the things that I think the former President should be. And he's doing a very effective job at that.
He's well-suited to -- for this job. And I think he's going to do a really -- he'll have a great debate against Governor -- former Congressman and now Governor Walz.
COLLINS: Karen, you heard J.D. Vance referring to a debate that has no audience, as a garbage debate. Obviously, that's what we saw Trump and Biden do. We saw what happened there.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SR. ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: I don't think the audience or lack of that was -- that was to credit for that.
But do you think that we will start seeing debates take the more typical format, going forward?
FINNEY: I think it's possible.
I mean, although I will say J.D. Vance is a bit off-message from where Donald Trump has been. Trump seems to have been very happy with that debate, and how it went. I don't think he would have called it a garbage debate.
But that being said, sure, we may see audiences. I mean, look, ultimately, it's going to come down to, the campaigns will negotiate with the network.
And I actually don't know that I -- I think some have said, well, if there had been an audience, maybe that would have been better. I actually think it was good to just have the two gentlemen, front and center, and to not have an audience, in the way that you would in a -- one of the Presidential Commission debates.
COLLINS: Mr. Mayor, where are you on this?
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Oh, look, I think the format, where the two candidates are in the room, and you can actually hear them, and they're not interrupted by applause, and they actually have to make their points, is much more rigorous and better for the American people.
But I'll tell you something. The point that Maggie Haberman made that J.D. Vance -- look, I'll give him some respect that he's trying to come back to that economic message, and he may be more disciplined than Trump. That's not saying much.
But here's the problem. There's a new poll out, like, literally just this week, Financial Times and University of Michigan Ross Business School, that shows more Americans now trust Kamala Harris on the economy. This is like 42-to-41-percent 1,000-person sample.
This is a stunning development that says Kamala Harris is moving so quickly, to gain people's trust, and to address the problems that Biden had, that a debate format's not going to save Donald Trump or J.D. Vance, at this point.
COLLINS: I didn't know you were going to bring props tonight. So, that's good.
DE BLASIO: I was ready.
COLLINS: Next time, give us a heads-up.
DE BLASIO: You see.
COLLINS: Brian Stelter, I have to ask you about this new reporting, in The Washington Post, tonight, broken by our friends, Michael Scherer and Josh Dawsey, that RFK Jr.--
BRIAN STELTER, JOURNALIST & AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": Yes.
COLLINS: --is seeking out the Harris campaign, Vice President Harris, specifically, and asking if, essentially, if he would throw his support behind her, if he could get a potential job, in a Harris administration.
STELTER: A cabinet spot, maybe.
COLLINS: Maybe a cabinet position.
STELTER: Right. This is RFK Jr. looking for an exit ramp, trying to find an exit ramp. It's why he was pursuing this, with Trump, last month. Now with Harris. Harris, of course, rebuffed this. He doesn't need -- she doesn't need RFK Jr..
But as he declines in the polls, as he dwindles, as Americans get to know him more, and they don't like what they see, he's trying to find an exit ramp. And I think he'll continue to try to do that. COLLINS: Yes. I mean, David Urban, it wasn't that long ago that RFK Jr. was on the phone, with Trump, and had recorded the conversation, and posted it--
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: --irritating the Trump campaign.
What do you make of what this report is saying tonight?
URBAN: Listen, we both know Josh Dawsey's a good reporter. I trust him for his reporting.
I agree with Brian there. I think he's desperate, looking for an exit ramp, as his campaign kind of fades into obscurity.
And as we get to the debates, just kind of a little bit of a rehash there. I think it's important. I think J.D. Vance recognizes. The campaigns recognizes. The Mayor brings us up this poll. Everybody could be for somebody that stands for nothing. Nobody knows what Kamala Harris stands for.
STELTER: That's not true.
[21:45:00]
URBAN: Because she hasn't said anything.
FINNEY: No. Come on, David.
URBAN: Well I can tell you which -- I can -- listen, I can tell you what she stands for, in 2019. She stands for allowing felons to vote, allowing illegal immigrants to cross over without--
FINNEY: So, David?
URBAN: --criminal things, taking people's guns away, ending fracking. That's what she stood for before.
FINNEY: So--
URBAN: But she says now she's not for that.
COLLINS: Well--
URBAN: So, nobody knows where she stands.
FINNEY: So--
URBAN: So, of course, everyone can like her.
FINNEY: Can I just -- I'm so sorry, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Go ahead, Karen.
FINNEY: David, here's my question. Here's the hypocrisy of what you just said. So, J.D. Vance talked about childless cat ladies. And somehow, he's not really for that. He didn't really mean that, or some of his previous policy positions.
And yet, when it comes to Kamala, despite all that data--
URBAN: So, Karen, tell me what -- tell me what she represents (ph)--
FINNEY: Hold on, David. Let me finish.
URBAN: --she doesn't believe in.
FINNEY: Let me finish my sentence. So, when it comes to Kamala, though, you're talking about what she said in 2019, and not the actual record of the last three-and-a-half years. So, when she was in the White House.
URBAN: Right.
FINNEY: So -- so how do you -- so it's OK to have discrepancies with J.D. Vance, but not with her, even though she's now got a record, and he has never deigned to clear up some of these things, he said? I mean?
DE BLASIO: I wanted--
URBAN: Karen, I'd just like to hear from the Vice--
DE BLASIO: --I want to see--
FINNEY: Square the circle for me.
DE BLASIO: --I want to see and race (ph) Karen.
URBAN: I'd like to hear from the Vice President.
COLLINS: Let's have the Mayor -- the Mayor weigh in.
URBAN: Let's hear from the Vice President, Karen.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
URBAN: All I'm asking for is her to go to Pennsylvania, and explain to voters why she's now for fracking, why she's not going to take their guns away, why they don't have to worry about the border, why they don't have to worry about the economy?
She's a part of the Biden-Harris administration. Her name's on the door. Let's run on the past three years.
FINNEY: Yes.
URBAN: The problem is, she's trying to distance herself--
DE BLASIO: No.
URBAN: --from the current President, and the current administration. COLLINS: OK. I will--
URBAN: And the media's allowing her to get away with it.
DE BLASIO: No, David--
COLLINS: Yes, I will just say--
DE BLASIO: David, look--
COLLINS: Hold on, Mr. Mayor. Quickly, I will just say one -- obviously, we believe people should take questions and give speeches.
I will say, David, you can't really complain about her saying that felons should be able to vote. I mean, that is a little on the nose.
But Mr. Mayor, go ahead with your point.
DE BLASIO: Yes, that point is that what Kamala Harris is doing is, unfortunately, what Joe Biden was not doing. She has a bigger message frame.
She's talking, I think, this idea of freedom, focusing on a woman's right to choose, focusing on freedom from gun violence, focusing on the ability to have health care when you need it, and lower prescription drug prices. I mean, this is -- this is exactly what I wish we had heard more from President Biden. We heard it in State of the Union. We really didn't hear it after that.
So, what I would argue is, in fact, the reason she is gaining so much ground is, for the first time, in a long time, we have a Democratic nominee, with a bigger vision for the country, that's starting to resonate.
The reason I raise that poll is for her to be winning now, on the economy? That was what Trump had as his like major, major advantage, over Biden, the pocketbook, the kitchen table. That's starting to fade away. And Kamala Harris is offering a vision that Trump is not matching. That's what I see.
STELTER: And the emotions matter.
URBAN: So, Mr. Mayor, you think -- you believe -- you believe people--
STELTER: I think Trump-world's jealous of the joy.
URBAN: --wanted single-payer health care system in America?
COLLINS: Hold on. David, I'm going to get back to you. Let Brian go ahead.
STELTER: I think Trump-world is jealous of the joy right now.
FINNEY: Yes.
STELTER: There's so much anger coming from Trump speeches. Joy is real. And it's important. People can make fun of it and say, focus on the policy.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
STELTER: But if you ask political scientists, and psychology professors, they'll tell you, the emotions matter in politics.
FINNEY: Yes.
STELTER: Sometimes, they matter a lot more than the policies. And that's, I think, the big story this week.
FINNEY: David don't know what to do with the joy. I mean.
URBAN: They're going to -- they're not going to have any joy, and if she gets elected, they'll have no money in their pocketbooks. Crime will be rampant. You -- Americans don't under -- there's not one policy she's articulated.
Tell me a policy position that she's taken. Karen? Mayor?
FINNEY: How about lowering prescription drug costs? How about the cost of insulin? How about more -- lowering the cost of--
URBAN: I bet--
FINNEY: --additional prescription drugs? How about the fact that the inflation had -- the consumer price index, we had some more good news today. Things seem to be moving in a better direction. How about that? How about--
URBAN: It's still terrible.
FINNEY: --Black maternal health?
STELTER: It's good (ph).
URBAN: Economy's terrible.
FINNEY: How about lowering health care costs across the board? How about cutting--
URBAN: How about taking your--
FINNEY: --child poverty in half?
URBAN: How about mandatory -- how about mandatory gun buybacks?
FINNEY: How about cutting child poverty in half? Are you opposed to that, David?
URBAN: How about banning fracking? How about banning fracking?
FINNEY: Did -- when it was -- when have they done that?
URBAN: How about allowing illegal immigrants to cross over?
FINNEY: When have--
URBAN: Not securing the border? These are the positions, Karen.
FINNEY: Border--
URBAN: She's not disavowed them.
FINNEY: David, you're being intellectually dishonest, right now.
URBAN: I had not heard about--
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Come on. Stop it.
COLLINS: OK.
URBAN: No, I'm not.
FINNEY: Yes, you are.
URBAN: Karen, you're being intellectually dishonest.
FINNEY: No, I'm not.
URBAN: Karen, has she -- has she stood out--
FINNEY: I'm talking about her actual record.
URBAN: Karen, I'm asking you, has she stood out and disavowed her policies? Kamala Harris has not stood on the platform, a podium, and said, I disavow these. She sent a nameless, faceless press person out.
COLLINS: David, can I ask you--
URBAN: To issue some statements.
FINNEY: She sent--
COLLINS: Can I ask you, David?
DE BLASIO: No.
COLLINS: Hold on, everybody.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: David, can I ask you, though. Because you do make a good point on her, taking questions, doing a sit-down interview, doing press conferences, all of those things are important to hear about, where she is on those.
She's reversed her position on the gun buybacks, on fracking, on Medicare for All. She herself has now articulated it. URBAN: Oh, how convenient?
COLLINS: But, David, can I ask you, would it -- would it change your mind if she came out and she explained those, would you then not criticize her, on what she held in 2019?
[21:50:00]
URBAN: Absolutely.
COLLINS: OK.
URBAN: I'd like to hear her come to Pennsylvania, and hold a press conference, and tell people that their option for when she bans fracking is not just a transition, and find another job.
STELTER: Well she'll be in Pennsylvania on Sunday.
FINNEY: But then why--
URBAN: To tell people--
COLLINS: Everyone, this has been an--
URBAN: To tell people -- wait. It's my turn.
FINNEY: So--
URBAN: It's my turn, Karen.
FINNEY: But then why the fact that she's been--
COLLINS: --this has been an energetic conversation, from all of you.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: I really appreciate it. I wish it could go for the next 11 minutes. But we have another segment coming up. Thank you all for being here.
STELTER: Good to be here.
COLLINS: Great to have you all.
Thanks, David, waving us off.
And we'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, Disney is trying to get a lawsuit thrown out of court, after a woman died at one of its resorts in Florida.
The company instead prefers to handle the matter in arbitration, therefore keeping it away from a jury, arguing that because the woman's widow signed up for a one-month trial of Disney+ in 2019, the fine print requires users to settle any dispute that way.
Jeffrey Piccolo is suing after his wife died of a severe food allergy, after eating at a restaurant in Disney Springs.
And tonight, we have this statement, from Disney, to CNN, that says, quote, "We are deeply saddened by the family's loss and understand their grief. Given that this restaurant is neither owned nor operated by Disney, we are merely defending ourselves against the plaintiff's attorney's attempt to include us in their lawsuit against the restaurant."
Here to talk about this story. CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig; and CNN Media Analyst, Sara Fischer.
It's great to have you both.
Elie, the family's attorneys responded to Disney, and said that it's so outrageously unreasonable, and unfair, as to shock the judicial conscience.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
COLLINS: Is it shocking? Does this happen a lot?
HONIG: This happens all the time. And by the way, this is why people hate lawyers.
Because, this poor young woman goes in this restaurant, tells them, I have these allergies. They serve her food with those allergens, anyway. She dies. The widower sues. And Disney says, well, five years ago, you signed up for Disney+, because you were streaming movies or something. Therefore, you don't get to sue us in court. You have to take us to arbitration.
But I want people to know, like public service message, these arbitration agreements are everywhere. I guarantee you, you both agreed to 10 of them, today, without knowing. Every time you get into a rideshare, if you take a train, a plane, if you go to a baseball game, many, many times the fine print says, we agree to arbitration.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, so -- OK, a lot of companies have this, and it's a standard thing.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: They prefer the defendants to prefer this.
But for Disney, for this company specifically, I mean, they obviously pride themselves on being a family-values kind of brand. That is truly who populates their theme parks. How do they walk this, now this is such a--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --public lawsuit?
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST, SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER, AXIOS: I think, in their mind, there's two separate things.
Something that happens in a Disney park directly. You'll recall, a few years ago, there's a 2-year-old child that died because they were attacked -- eaten by an alligator. Bob Iger put out a statement, immediately. He called the family, immediately. They were very public about it. What can we do?
This happened within Disney Springs, which is obviously a resort that's owned by Disney. And so, Disney's thinking about this in a way that's a little bit separate. OK, this isn't our exact park. This is a restaurant that gets to exist on our park, but we don't own, and we don't operate it. And I think that's why they think that they can have this level of separation.
Problem, Kaitlan, though, is that from a PR perspective, the average person doesn't really know or care about that distinction, right? All the headlines right now, all they say is that this woman died in Disney, and Disney is giving their family a hard time, about $50,000.
HONIG: And to me, saying, That's not our property, we don't own that property? That's one thing, and that's separate.
But then to come back with also, because you clicked on, I agree, right? Therefore, you're out of luck? That is a different argument. That's why they're getting, I think, blowback here.
FISCHER: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes. And how does that extend to his wife, if it was--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --he was the one who signed up for it?
HONIG: It's a great question. And one of the arguments that the plaintiff is making here is it doesn't apply to the spouse. It applied, right -- because the lawsuit is technically being brought by the wife's estate. So, how does a spouse waive the wife's estate's right to pursue this?
And by the way, these arbitration clauses generally are enforced by courts. But they will ask, is this completely unfair? This is what the lawyers call unconscionable. Is it ambiguous? Is it clear?
And I think there's a pretty good argument. When you sign on to Disney+, you're not saying, And I also agree if I get injured in the amusement park.
FISCHER: Totally.
And, by the way, just so you understand how this is working. The reason why Disney is arguing that the Disney+ agreement should apply to this situation is because the plaintiff is arguing that Disney is responsible, in part, because they list this restaurant vendor on one of their websites.
So, they're arguing that if you're going to come to us, and allege that the website relationship is the problem, we're going to hand it right back at you, and our website and app T&A is what you're agreeing to here.
Now, where I think it's fuzzy is to say website and app. I mean, signing up for Disney+, to me, feels very different than the website itself.
HONIG: Yes.
FISCHER: We'll see what the judge says to that.
COLLINS: Yes, if you are going to the website, and it is on there, do they not bear responsibility for that, to a degree?
HONIG: Yes. So, I mean, it all comes down to the fine print, right? This is why lawyers do fine print.
And these companies really want to be in arbitration, not in court. And that's what this is, right? Because arbitration is cheaper, for these companies. They don't have the risk of some jury verdict hammering them for hundreds of millions of dollars.
And importantly, if you're in court, it's public. I mean, we cover court proceedings, all the time. If you're in arbitration, that's generally private.
[22:00:00]
So, it's one thing, to me, when one corporation, what if Disney had a contract with Coke, and they agreed, we're going to arbitrate? That's going to be upheld.
But in a situation like this, where it's confusing, where you have a sort of powerless individual, where it's the spouse of the person, I actually think the plaintiffs are ultimately going to prevail here.
COLLINS: Wow.
HONIG: Yes. Their life is going to be difficult. But I think they're going to win in the end.
COLLINS: Yes. It's just such a horrible story.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: Elie Honig. Sara Fischer. Thank you for explaining it to us.
Thank you all so much, for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
