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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
RFK Jr. Endorses Trump, Campaigns With Him In Arizona; Sources: Harris Focused On Prepping For Sept. 10 Trump Debate; CNN Analysis: Trump's Businesses Bring In Tens Of Millions Of Dollars From Republican Campaigns, Including His Own. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 23, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Our first day in Yellowstone was more than we could have ever hoped for. And it wasn't over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see him?
LAVANDERA (on camera): Oh, yes, there, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now you just see him wild.
LAVANDERA (on camera): Yes, yes, yes.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): We spot another grizzly bear near the road.
LAVANDERA (on camera): This is as close as we've gotten so far, today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LAVANDERA (on camera): How far away do you think we are? More than 100 yards, we're supposed to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're on the safe distance, yes.
LAVANDERA (on camera): We're on the safe distance, all right.
As soon as word spreads that there's a bear here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at this, right?
LAVANDERA (on camera): Yes, look at this -- look at the traffic jam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like it's--
LAVANDERA (on camera): And people start getting antsy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And--
LAVANDERA (on camera): They start moving around real quick. And that's exactly what you're not supposed to do. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People parked in the middle of the street.
LAVANDERA (on camera): You temporarily lose your mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LAVANDERA (on camera): Right. It's like if you're walking down the street in New York City, and some incredible celebrity, like Taylor Swift, is walking down the street, the entire block goes crazy, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
LAVANDERA (on camera): This is like the Taylor Swift of Yellowstone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: See more of Ed's report in a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY." "CLOSE ENCOUNTERS: TOURISTS IN THE WILD" airing this Sunday night, at 08:00, here on CNN.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. Have a great weekend.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins.
The VP picks have been picked. The presidential nominees have been nominated. The conventions have convened. And believe it or not, it's almost time for the voters to start voting. Absentee ballots start getting mailed out, in battleground North Carolina, just two weeks away from today.
And across the nation tonight, across the country, in another critical battleground State of Arizona, a new alliance has been forged. Robert F. Kennedy taking the stage with Donald Trump, just moments ago, and a scion of a Democratic dynasty, endorsing a Republican candidate for president. And not just any Republican candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've known him a long time. We've been a little bit on the opposite side of the equation. But he is a phenomenal person, a phenomenal man, who loves the people of this country.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., POLITICIAN: We don't agree on everything. But on the values and the issues that bind us together.
Don't you want a president who is going to protect America's freedoms?
(CHEERING)
KENNEDY JR.: And don't you want a president that's going to make America healthy again?
(CHEERING) (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Tonight, that man's siblings are calling their brother's endorsement of Donald Trump, a betrayal of everything that their father stood for. One of those siblings is going to join me, here tonight.
In the meantime, though, Vice President Harris made her way back to Washington, where she's preparing for that upcoming debate, with former President Donald Trump, just 18 days from now.
Reporters caught up with her on her way back from Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What's next?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to walk up those stairs.
REPORTER: No, after that?
HARRIS: Win. We're going to win.
DOUGLAS EMHOFF, SECOND GENTLEMAN OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Good questions there, from reporters, to the Vice President, who is yet to take questions in a formal setting, but has said she will do so after the convention, that ended last night, in Chicago, finished.
We have some of our sharpest political sources, joining us here, on this Friday night.
Mayor de Blasio, I want to start with you, just on what we just saw play out, tonight, with RFK Jr. being that special guest that Donald Trump was teasing on stage with him in Arizona.
Do you think this endorsement makes any substantial change in this race?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Kaitlan, if you had asked me a month or two ago, I would have said yes. But I don't feel that now, for a couple reasons.
One, I think the race for Joe Biden and Donald Trump, we all knew there were a lot of people looking for another political home. Now this is a very, very different election now. I think Kamala Harris has brought Democrats home, and actually is reaching over to a lot of independents and moderates, particularly, I should mean independents and Republicans, including a lot of moderate women in particular.
And so now you have a particularly stark choice in this election that I think makes third-party candidates a lot less relevant, in general. I think it could have been a big factor, when there were many more dissatisfied people.
I think the other factor is obvious that RFK Jr., I mean, he has been strange throughout, in my opinion. But he got a lot stranger in the last few weeks. And you saw his support plummeting.
So, I'm a little worried about maybe some folks that would have voted for him, now go over to Trump. But in general, I think his campaign kind of collapsed. So, I don't think it's going to be a huge factor.
COLLINS: Shermichael, what do you, from the Republican perspective, how do you see it?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, I have a bit of a different assessment and analysis from the former Mayor.
I mean, you're looking at a recent CBS poll that suggested that RFK Jr. received about 2 percent, nationally. So quantitatively speaking, then I begin to think, what does that look like? A couple 100,000 votes? Maybe a million or two.
[21:05:00]
Then my next question, as a strategist, is, where exactly are those voters? How many of them are in crucial, critical battleground states? How do I target them? One, figuring out where they are. What are my penetration methods, to keep them engaged with the process?
And finally, how do I turn them out come November? And that means putting RFK Jr. out there, on the campaign trail, campaigning for the former President, on some of the issues that he cares about, and then translating that message into how those issues will be fundamentally rolled into what a potential Trump presidency could be.
COLLINS: Yes. And we heard from RFK on this. Because it was reported in recent weeks that he was also seeking a meeting with Vice President Harris, this idea, if she offered him a role, that he would maybe potentially suspend his bid, and endorse her. Obviously, the opposite of what we saw happen tonight.
But Laura, I want you to listen to what he had to say, about his outreach to Harris, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY JR.: Following my first discussion with President Trump, I tried, unsuccessfully, to open similar discussions with Vice President Harris. Vice President Harris declined to meet or even to speak with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, he's complaining, essentially, that she would not meet with him. What do you make of that, Laura? LAURA FINK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think she's also complaining that a Signed, Sealed, Delivered, just to quote, Stevie, is not -- a cabinet position is not being offered unto him. This was a guy who clearly was about quid pro quo.
Donald Trump made some commitments to him, and he is supposedly delivering the vote. Although I do agree with Mayor de Blasio that, in fact, there is some question, as with Nikki Haley, as to whether he can actually deliver those voters. They look and seem like a none-of- the-above faction that may stay home on their couch. All that being said, we are--
BRIAN STELTER, AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": Right.
FINK: --there is some credence to the notion that small numbers matter in this election. So, that's true. But I think a limited impact and you can (ph) mitigate for it in other ways.
COLLINS: Yes. Brian Stelter, just, what do you make of watching how this has played out, and Laura describing this as basically a, I mean, every endorsement, politicians work to get, in a primary race. This, though, is completely different in the nature of how we saw RFK--
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: --run this campaign, how his polling changed as the election got closer, which is, historically, what happens with third-party candidates.
But what do you make of what he had to say there, about trying to get in a meeting with Harris and not succeeding?
STELTER: If we apply Occam's Razor, we say the simplest explanation is the likely answer. It's that Kennedy sold out to the highest bidder, in the same way that he picked his vice president, based on who was going to donate a lot of money to him.
I view this as a little bit of a mess, because Trump is now trying to appeal to Kennedy supporters, by promising to investigate conspiracy theories, by promising to set up commissions to investigate Kennedy's pet projects and theories.
And to the extent that might help him with some voters, it may also turn off other voters, who might not appreciate Trump appeal, you know, trying to play to an anti-vaccine crowd, for example. So, it may end up all just being awash at the end of the day.
And I'm really curious how Kennedy's wife feels. Cheryl Hines had said that she would be very, very turned off, if her husband endorsed Trump.
COLLINS: Yes.
STELTER: And today, that's basically what he did. Even though he's staying on the ballot in some states, he's trying to find this weird middle ground that doesn't actually exist here. COLLINS: Yes. And it was also interesting to see that statement from the Harris campaign, not even really naming Trump or RFK, but saying, hey, we're here--
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: --to appeal to those voters who may have felt that way.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: But Mayor, let's talk about the race as it stands. We just got our -- we're hours away from the end of the Chicago convention. Vice President Harris giving that speech, last night.
And now, she's had her momentum. No one can deny that. But I talked to Democrats, on the floor, at that convention, this week, people like Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, who said, OK, now is where the work is going to begin, because this is by no means our race or settled.
I wonder what you make of what the next 70 days or so are going to look like.
DE BLASIO: I think there's an immense amount of work to do. And I do worry a little bit about folks starting to get triumphalist. I mean, Democrats are kind of funny that way. We, just a month or two ago, everything was gloom and doom. And now, folks are acting like the election already happened. Well, it hasn't.
I do want to just double-back on Brian's point real quick. I think it is so important to recognize that if Trump's going and having commissions on conspiracy theories, he is pushing away those moderate suburban women that just are the decisive factor in this election. Period. So, that's another way that RFK Jr. endorsement might backfire.
But to your question, Kaitlan. Look, we see this incredible, positive beginning. I thought Kamala Harris' speech was about as good as it possibly could be. I thought the biographical element of it really helped people to feel her heart and soul, and her humanity, her origins, connecting to so many people's everyday lives.
[21:10:00]
And I think her indictment of Trump was strong. Her vision of where to take America was much clearer and stronger than much of what we heard from President Biden, over the last few months.
But this is now about turnout of the Democratic base, which is still far from settled. We know Trump had made serious inroads. So, this is where the Democratic Party cannot make the mistake, focusing just on paid media, and there will be plenty of it with the money she's brought in.
The field game really, really matters here. It's harder to get people to vote than literally ever before. So, getting to people, in their communities, in their houses of worship, at their workplaces, through their unions, through their families, that is the piece that Democrats better take really, really seriously, or this thing could still slip away.
COLLINS: Well, and on the flip side of that, Shermichael. I mean, if you're a Republican, watching Harris' speech last night, where she very clearly was trying to appeal to those middle-of-the-road voters, those independent voters. She spoke directly, to some of them, kind of try to create a permission structure, to vote for her, which we've seen Republicans do for Trump.
How do you -- how are you viewing that as a Republican, of how that informs the Trump campaign?
SINGLETON: Yes. Look, I thought her speech was pretty profound in a number of ways. I get the excitement. I get the energy. I was there all week with you.
You heard a lot of Democrats talking about the vibes, and how happy they are. And I certainly get it, when considering a lot of Democrats thought that they were going to lose this thing, two months ago, when President Biden was at the top of the ticket.
However, I think Republicans still have the opportunity, to remind voters, about that fundamental thing that they're worried about, the economy and cost.
There is a reason that this race continues to be so close, despite over 30 days of incredible news coverage, for Vice President Harris. I suspect, maybe she'll get a bump or two after a successful convention week, from Democrats writ large. Yet the numbers still haven't moved.
Because I think a lot of voters, while excited about her candidacy, excited about the monumental occasion that we just saw, right, nominating the first woman of color, that is a big deal. Yet those kitchen table issues, when people wake up in the morning, Kaitlan, it's not going away.
When people sit in their cars, and they're trying to go to work, and they realize that the car's on E, do I have enough money to put gas in the tank? When people are wondering if they can pay their mortgage, or pay their rent, without being evicted or being foreclosed on? Those things are very real and tangible, for a whole lot of voters, in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.
And if the former President and Republicans writ large can stick to that message, this race, while it will be tightened, will remain competitive.
COLLINS: Well. And of course, the other big issue is abortion that we saw talked about, in a way at this convention that obviously would have been very different, had it still been Biden's convention.
And Laura, on that we heard from Trump responding.
STELTER: Yes. COLLINS: He was basically responding, in real-time, to her speech. And he said today that his administration would be better for women, on reproductive rights, if he gets a second term.
As a Democrat, how do you view that?
FINK: I mean, it's wildly ridiculous on its face. And I think we failed to mention -- and I agree, we got to talk about the economy. I think Kamala is closing the gap. I don't think it's overconfidence to say that we need to close the gap on those numbers. And we need to highlight issues like abortion.
I would say this. The Kamala Harris campaign is doing everything right now. So, they should continue to keep doing what they're doing. And from a high-level perspective, from a message perspective, and that means continuing to instill the belief that she's able and capable of making change. And we saw the speech do that expertly, as well as the four days of the convention.
When you instill that belief, you're able to keep the energy going on the movement politics that has moms collecting 200 yard signs to distribute, to their mom groups and their neighbors, and has students signing up inside the halls of their universities.
This is the type of thing that creates momentum and expands the campaign that we hear others talking about. If she's able to capitalize on that, as well as to use Donald Trump's own weight against him, which she's been very effective at doing.
The Republicans came out of their convention overconfident, and they haven't managed to shake off that overconfidence. They almost seem stunned that she's doing as well as she is because they wildly underestimate her.
So, if she continues to hit her marks with Simone Biles-like effectiveness, she is going to make it through these next 70-plus days, with leaving it all on the field.
COLLINS: Well, and Brian, what seems different? And I'm curious for your view on this as just, you know, covering Trump, and observing him, for, since he's been in political life, now for this many years. It seems like they've tried to figure out a different way to talk about him, less in the big picture, threat to democracy kind of terms.
STELTER: Yes.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: But as Harris was saying, last night, she called him an unserious man, but saying that there were serious consequences, to putting him back in office. You could see that from a lot of the keynote speakers, this week, trying to kind of diminish him, or mock him, almost.
STELTER: Yes, and experts in fascism and autocracy will tell you that throughout history, that has been an effective playbook against wannabe dictators. That's how Democrats view Trump. And so, they are now applying that autocrat playbook against him. And he does seem rattled by it.
He called into two right-wing networks immediately after the Harris speech. He rambled. He seemed agitated, really upset. And we've seen that over and over again, from Trump, as he describes Kamala Harris' California, in dark, dire terms, not realistic terms, but in a way that connects with some of his fans.
When you were in Chicago, I was in Philly, watching swing state television. I want to watch the local TV ads, and see what Americans are watching, between the speeches.
And the ads against Harris, they're terrifying, right? They're about the border. They're about immigration. That's why Harris needs to go out, and do interviews, and talk to people and answer questions now. Because those ads, she has to rebut those ads. She has to respond to the pro-Trump ads that are out there.
She needs to be out there, in challenging environments, to prep for the debate, next month. And I think she will start to do interviews. But that would be my argument for why that's the next phase of this campaign.
COLLINS: Yes, we would love her to have her here on THE SOURCE. Brian Stelter.
To all of you, thank you for joining so much, on this Friday night.
STELTER: Good to see you.
COLLINS: Up next here on CNN. RFK Jr.'s sister says that his endorsement of Donald Trump is a betrayal of the Kennedy family's values. Kerry Kennedy is here, live, to respond.
Plus, we have new reporting for you, this hour. How Donald Trump is personally profiting off Republican political campaigns, including his own.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and Donald Trump, have officially joined forces. You saw them on stage, as Kennedy endorsed Donald Trump, after suspending his own presidential run.
Based on what he said earlier, it appears he's still hopeful that a path to the White House remains possible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY JR.: I want everyone to know that I am not terminating my campaign. I am simply suspending it and not ending it.
My name will remain on the ballot, in most states. I encourage you to vote for me. And if enough of you do vote for me, and neither of the major party candidates win 270 votes, I could conceivably still end up in the White House in a contingent election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Kerry Kennedy, RFK Jr.'s sister, and also a human rights activist.
And it's great to have you, here tonight.
You responded to this earlier. You said that this was a betrayal of your father's legacy. Why do you -- why do you think so?
KERRY KENNEDY, ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.'S SISTER: Well, I think, if my father were alive today, he would detest almost everything Donald Trump represents. His lying, his selfishness, his rage, his cynicism, his hatred, his racism, his fascist sympathies, his deliberate misinformation about vaccines, his criminal felony convictions, his contempt for the poor and suffering, for ethics, for democracy and for healing. And his cruel smearing at human rights for suffering people in America, and around the world, which was the cause that so moved and motivated my father.
So, I'm outraged and disgusted by my brother's gaudy and obscene embrace of Donald Trump. I love my brother. But this is an outrage. And I completely disavow and separate and dissociate him -- myself from him on this issue.
COLLINS: Have you spoken to your brother lately?
KENNEDY: No, I haven't. I -- Bobby -- I mean, I saw him a few weeks ago, at my daughter Mariah's wedding. And -- but Bobby knows my view, and my feelings very, very well.
COLLINS: That must be pretty difficult for you.
KENNEDY: Yes, it's heartbreaking. Because this is a time when there's so much at stake in this election. This is why almost every single person, in my family, is fighting so hard to reelect Kamala Harris, and Coach Walz, because they've been champions of the values my family has fought for, for years.
And Donald Trump is the -- is the polar opposite. He threatens the most basic freedoms that are core to who we are as Americans. For women to control their bodies, to live in communities safe from gun violence which brought down Uncle Jack and daddy, to love who you love, which impacts people in my family, and people across our country and around the globe.
So, these are -- these are not light issues for me. These are issues that I've--
COLLINS: Yes.
KENNEDY: --spent my entire life fighting for. COLLINS: Yes. You were just at the Democratic convention.
[21:25:00]
Your other family member, Jack Schlossberg, was also there. He tweeted today that, that essentially what this showed was just that, that RFK Jr.'s vote was for sale.
Is that how you view it as your brother's vote is just, his endorsement's just for sale?
KENNEDY: That's not the way I would put it. I think it's sad, and it's the sad ending to a long sad story. And I think anybody who's been watching Bobby, and his actions, would draw the same conclusion. As I'd say, I love him, but I think that he's terribly, terribly misguided.
COLLINS: In a state like Arizona, where he was with Trump, tonight, I mean, that was a state that was decided by such a small margin of votes.
Are you worried that if Donald Trump does win in November -- and you obviously would like a different outcome. Are you worried that you -- that this, what happened today, could in part be to blame?
KENNEDY: Well, I'm not an expert on this. But I did speak to several pollsters, when I was out at the DNC. And they all said the same thing, which was that Bobby's vote is of people who -- primarily people who are disaffected. So, either, they're people who would not vote at all for anyone else, or will vote for third-party candidate, probably Jill Stein.
So, they're really, at this point -- you know, a few months ago, he was taking from Donald Trump, and from Harris. But at this point, he is really not taking from anyone. He's just taking from people who otherwise probably won't vote.
But I think it is important in Arizona, and in so many other places, across our country, when you think about what the current administration, with the Biden-Harris administration has accomplished.
Wages are up. Inflation is down. Small businesses are booming. Manufacturing jobs are coming back. They've caught -- capped the cost of insulin to $35 a month, for those on Medicare, lowering prescription drug costs. Student loan relief to nearly 4 million Americans. And the first bipartisan gun safety legislation in 30 years.
So, I think that this election matters. It matters for our economy. It matters for the heart of what it means to be an American. And it matters for basic bread-and-butter issues. What are your taxes? Do you have a job that you can go to, whereas -- or can you pay for your health care? And on all of those issues, Biden-Harris -- I mean, sorry. Harris-Walz are in much, much, much better than Donald Trump.
COLLINS: Kerry Kennedy, thank you for your time tonight. KENNEDY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Coming up here on THE SOURCE. Trump is bucking some of his own closest allies, and the advice that they have given him, when it comes to the personal attacks he's been making against Harris. My Republican source coming up. We'll weigh in.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For all the voices, in the Republican Party, pleading with Donald Trump, to make the rest of this campaign about contrasting himself with Vice President Harris on the issues.
Here's what Donald Trump thinks of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They say to me, sir, please stick to policy. Don't stick to personality. You should be nice to people, sir. You have to be nice.
I go, I call them up. My geniuses, they get paid a fortune. Actually, not that much.
But I call up my people. I say, They're knocking the hell out of me, and you say, I shouldn't get personal? I have to get personal, don't I?
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: I have to get personal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source, tonight, is one of those prominent Republicans that Trump does not appear to be listening to, when it comes to that advice. New Hampshire governor, Chris Sununu.
Governor, this is a real -- a real concern that Trump's closest advisers have when it comes to how he's talking about this. I mean, they look at the polls that show that Trump's position on some stuff is more popular than Harris' actually, on issues that matter a lot to voters.
Do you think, when you see him, hear what he's saying there, is his own worst enemy?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): I wouldn't. Look, it's clapping -- it's classic Donald Trump, right? But the advisers, which apparently are getting paid a fortune. So, I don't know, maybe my advice is worth something a little more, because I don't get paid anything. They are right, is that when you stick to issues, when you can do with a smile, people listen, right?
You don't want to turn anybody off, when you have all the opportunity to start bringing folks on. And there really are still maybe 9, 10, 12 percent of the voter and the electorate that will come out in November, are still undecided. They could still go either way, or maybe they were with Trump, and now they're with Kamala, and now they could come back.
So, these are real voters out there to be gotten. But they want to talk about real solutions. And I think the Republican Party, as a whole, has some real solutions, when you talk inflation and the border and these things that people care about, not just the Republican Party, but that are the top priorities for Americans, right now.
[21:35:00]
So, just don't miss the opportunity. I think that's the message. And if he does that, it's the blocking and tackling of running a campaign. If he does that, he wins. This is his campaign to win, at this point. If he doesn't, it's on him, and it's on his shoulders, like, don't come crying that the election was stolen from you, when we told you how to win and you gave the thing away.
I don't think that's going to happen. I think he is going to pivot. I mean, even what you saw with Brian Kemp, right, this past couple days, he started throwing out an olive branch, and saying nice things about Governor Kemp, someone he's traditionally had some personal conflict with. So, there are signs that he's going to turn this thing more professional.
And if this is Kamala's high watermark, after the election, which I believe it is, in terms of polling, it's probably not enough to get it done. You're going to see that pendulum start to swing, and a lot of opportunity come to the Republicans, in terms of those independent voters, those swing voters--
COLLINS: Yes.
SUNUNU: --that are still out there.
COLLINS: But Governor, some people listen to that answer you just gave, and think, OK, well, Lindsey Graham told, Kaitlan, two weeks ago, that he was going to pivot, and that hasn't happened yet. I mean, people have been saying for eight years that Donald Trump was going to pivot.
SUNUNU: Yes.
COLLINS: And it has not happened yet.
SUNUNU: Yes. Look, unfortunately, the both sides, I think, are--
COLLINS: So, why would this be any different?
SUNUNU: Yes. He's not going to completely pivot. He's not going to completely go a 180 degrees. We've all wished that for eight years. It's just not going to happen. We know that. But he is going to pivot, I think, enough, to force the conversation. Let's remember. Kamala has yet to even do an interview, right? So, she's -- if they thought she was good on her feet, and could answer the questions, and had real solutions, and could do something other than read on the teleprompter, she would be doing it. But they're clearly protecting that.
So, as soon as this race really gets back to having to answer questions, on the fly, talk about real issues, her policies haven't sparked any fires, other than problems, right? Because of this whole price control stuff, which is very un-American, and would crush the economy.
She picks this very liberal, very progressive governor. Tim Walz is a nice guy, very nice guy. But extremely unabashedly progressive, and caused a lot of problems for his own state, and has a real tough record that he has to stand on.
So, she's not moving to the center, which, again, goes back to, this is Trump's to win. This is the Republican Party's to win. And my biggest concern is--
COLLINS: Yes. Well--
SUNUNU: --isn't so much -- it's on the presidential, but it's on the state races too. I don't want him to affect other, the senators, the congressmen, the governors, who have to win their races. I don't want him dragging them down.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and I'll say, when it comes to Harris and moving to the center. I mean, her speech, last night, did seem pretty down the center, in terms of who she's appealing to.
But I do -- you brought up Brian Kemp -- and Governor Kemp. And this is an interesting thing that happened in the middle of the convention, last night, where Trump had been attacking him, three weeks ago, in his home state, as, he called him Little Brian. He said he was an average governor. Was talking about how he doesn't work hard enough for his constituents. I think the Republicans, who overwhelmingly put him back in office and, in the last election, not that long ago, would disagree with that.
But why do you think Donald Trump is doing that now? Do you think it's because he's seeing like what we're seeing in the latest New York Times/Siena poll, where Trump is leading Georgia by only 4 percent with likely voters, something they were hoping was going to be a bigger margin.
SUNUNU: Yes. So, we've all -- I can tell you, no one can tell Donald Trump what to do and what to say. But one thing he cares about, and I've sat with him many times, all he wants to talk about is poll numbers.
He actually reads the polls. He responds to them. And that type of feedback response, so to say, can get him to pivot. Because he does want to win. There's no question about that. But when he sees the numbers slipping, that's what ultimately drives him. So, I think as these poll numbers, in the swing states, especially show, that can get him to change his traditional habits, pivot a little bit, hopefully pivot enough to win the -- win these swing states. And you're already seeing signs of it.
COLLINS: I have to ask you, though, because in terms of the -- Trump now saying, one nice post about Brian Kemp, which I should note came after Kemp was on Fox News, last night.
The other thing that has been a talk of Republicans is what came out this week, that Trump is allowing his Bedminster golf club, to host a January 6 Awards Gala, which is going to raise money, for people who attacked the Capitol, on January 6.
Is that something that you think the Republican nominee should be doing, right before the election, or at all?
SUNUNU: No. Look, there's a lot of ways to raise money. And highlighting one of the sore points of American history, frankly, in his presidency, is not a very smart thing to do at all.
Again, this is about winning elections and winning over voters. That's just -- there's a lot of other ways that they could definitely be doing it.
And it raises the temperature, right? It reminds folks of the election denial and the January 6 stuff. There's no reason to do that.
The Democrats are doing that on their side as well. I mean, they're raising the temperature.
I heard Pelosi's comments today, a month and a half, six weeks since the President -- since former President Trump was shot. She's equivocating his threat to democracy to actions that need to be taken, like the Civil War and the Revolutionary War. I mean, that's nuts. That's really dangerous rhetoric.
[21:40:00]
That his threat is so much that we have to equivocate it to a point when Americans took up arms, and had to kill people for, to defend democracy? For Nancy Pelosi to be doing that sort of thing, on that side, is really unnecessary, really dangerous stuff, and really insensitive, if anything.
So both parties need to bring it down. That's how you earn voters.
COLLINS: But -- but--
SUNUNU: No one wants to have a conversation when you're pushing them away, effectively.
COLLINS: But Nancy Pelosi making a comment, I mean, that's not the same thing as hosting an awards ceremony, for people, who attacked the Capitol, attacked law enforcement, the people that Trump has said he is willing to pardon. Right, Governor? SUNUNU: Look, I think what Trump is doing with highlighting January 6 is a massive problem. Make no mistake.
But do not, do not be part of the media that wants to not talk about the extremely dangerous rhetoric that Nancy Pelosi pulled out there. She's equating it, she's equating Donald Trump's threat to America, to something where Americans had to have a Civil War.
She made a direct statement. I mean, that's a really dangerous thing, a month after he was shot. I mean, come on. What else is she saying? What else could she possibly saying -- be saying with that statement?
I think it's horrible. I think she owes an apology. I think she needs to, again, say -- she's a leader in the Democrat Party. She has a responsibility to talk about issues, bring rhetoric down, get people engaged, not fire them up to the point where we're talking about--
COLLINS: But can I--
SUNUNU: --taking up arms against threats. That's completely inappropriate.
COLLINS: Well, and you -- and Trump himself, obviously, has called Biden a threat to democracy. I think in terms of language, I think a lot of people would agree with that.
But on -- you're the Republican, you're a Republican governor, you're voting for Donald Trump. That's why I'm asking you about what Donald Trump is doing. Not what Nancy Pelosi is saying.
SUNUNU: Sure.
COLLINS: But should he cancel this? Should he not allow this to be held at one of his properties?
SUNUNU: No, look, he's going to do what he's going to do. I mean, I don't think it's a good idea. But no one's going to tell him not to do it. Some dummy thought it was a good idea and raised it up.
I just think it's a really bad look at a bad, bad time. I mean, if you -- you know, and this is a general election, right? Again, this is all about getting 12 percent of the undecided voters. That's all that matters. And the blocking and tackling and the hard-nosed campaigning you have to do to do that, this event does nothing to enhance that. So, yes, it's a huge problem.
And I think January 6 was a huge problem and the election denial. The one thing Trump has going for him is most Americans have kind of put that into the rearview mirror. Why you'd want to flame that up again, and remind everybody of that again, at a time when you're trying to earn votes, is beyond me. So no, it's a bad move.
Now, in terms of going back to why I think he is going to--
COLLINS: Yes. SUNUNU: --get back to where he needs to be. He's already practicing for the debate, weeks ahead, right? He's already doing that kind of practice, that kind of routine. That's -- that takes some discipline. That shows that he's taking it very seriously.
And up until the point of that debate, understanding, what that debate is going to be. It could be very monumental. It could be very pivotal. And he's not -- he's not just saying, Well, I'm just going to attack her personally. He's clearly boning up. When you do that, you're trying to bone up on the issues, get your answers succinct, be clear, be concise, and engage with the folks that you're kind of -- you're trying to talk to.
The fact that he's doing some practice on that?
COLLINS: Yes.
SUNUNU: I think, spends a lot.
But this January 6 stuff, it's not just a waste of time, but it's detrimental, I think, to the campaign.
COLLINS: Yes. Governor Chris Sununu, thank you for your time tonight.
SUNUNU: You bet. Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We have new reporting on Vice President Harris' next move, speaking of debate prep, what she is focusing on, after that convention in Chicago. That's next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With the convention, in the rearview mirror, tonight, Vice President Harris is turning her attention to that upcoming debate, with Donald Trump that is just 18 days from now. Hard to believe it's that soon.
A source that is close to her campaign tells CNN, tonight, she will continue to be traveling, out on the campaign trail, but not at the same pace that we saw, over the last few weeks. And instead, she's largely going to be focused on debate prep before that first showdown, with Donald Trump, scheduled for September 10th.
My Democratic source, tonight, is Massachusetts governor, Maura Healey, who is an official surrogate, for the Harris campaign. And also just left Chicago with the rest of us. So, if we look a little sleep-deprived, that's why.
Governor, as you look at with this debate. And there was so much momentum and excitement in your party, at this convention. But I think there's still a real question of how that translates, and how you make that last, over the next 70 or so days, and when it comes to how you're viewing how tough these next few months are going to be, for your party. GOV. MAURA HEALEY (D-MA): Well, I think that's exactly right. Huge amount of enthusiasm. I mean, look, the Celtics won the NBA championship, a few months ago, here in Boston. The arena was nuts, wild, right? I got to say, the arena, last night, was like something I've never experienced before. So yes, there is this incredible amount of enthusiasm.
But the work is really now. I mean, this election will be close. And so, I think what you'll continue to see is Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, out there, day after day, pressing the case, continuing on offense, continuing to travel all across this country, to talk to people, and to point out the real clear differences in this race.
COLLINS: Yes. And the three most vulnerable issues for her right now, immigration, the economy, the split in your party over the war in Gaza. She addressed all three of those, in her speech, last night.
But how do you think she should be prepping behind-the-scenes for that, knowing, as Donald Trump is looking at the numbers very closely. I mean, he's obviously going to try to hammer that when they are on that debate stage, together.
[21:50:00]
HEALEY: Yes. I mean, I don't know what Donald Trump is looking at. He lined up with RFK today. So, that's just an interesting marriage of lies and conspiracies. And good luck to them.
I will tell you that, in my view, she did an excellent job, last night, on those three issues. You did not see division. You saw unity, at the convention, all week, even where there were differences of opinion about the situation, in Israel and Gaza. I think she addressed that head-on. She articulated clearly what her position is.
Similarly, when it came to the economy, she was also clear. And Tim Walz and Kamala Harris, in contrast to Vance and Trump, are clear. They want to cut taxes for the middle-class. They want to increase housing and programs for first-time homebuyers. They want to do things to help people, and to grow this economy. We haven't heard anything, from Trump, on this, other than he's going to continue to cut taxes for the wealthiest among us.
And on immigration. I also thought she did a great job, Kaitlan, pointing out what really went down.
And as a governor, I know what happened. There was a deal, a bipartisan deal, that both Democratic and Republican governors were excited about. This was the deal, struck in the Senate, right, where we had strong Republican leadership, strong Democratic leadership. It was set to be done.
And she said, last night, clearly, what happened was, we know, Donald Trump said, he killed it. He said, I don't want -- there should be no deal, because it's not good for me politically. So, he killed it. And then everybody, the Republicans, I saw my Republican colleagues, like Chris Sununu, everybody just walked away, from what everybody thought was a good deal.
And she said, last night, to the public, a secure border is important to me as president. I will sign that bill, when it gets to my desk. And she's going to continue to work on that bipartisan immigration reform bill.
So, I thought she really showed herself to be a person versed in everything you want, in a president. The economy, foreign affairs, articulating clearly that she's going to stand with NATO--
COLLINS: Yes.
HEALEY: --stand up for Ukraine, and all that. I think she did really well. She's going to continue to do that--
COLLINS: But what's your--
HEALEY: --and make the case.
COLLINS: And she was making that argument, last night, talking about a more secure border, talking about tamping down inflation, housing prices, what voters are dealing with.
The response that I saw also was, well, she is the Vice President, right now. It's not like she doesn't have any power, that she's out of office, and saying what she would do. Obviously, being the top of the ticket and being the president is much different.
But what would your response to that criticism be?
HEALEY: Well, I mean, on immigration, the fault's really with Congress, on this one. They're the ones who did not act. And they did not act because Republicans in Congress, once again, bowed down to Trump.
So, I think she's going to continue to lead as Vice President, of course, alongside President Biden. But the game is on. We don't have many days, many weeks to go, Kaitlan. And every day I know she's going to be out there, talking about the things that she's going to do for people.
And again, whether you're talking about health care or reproductive freedom, whether you're talking about middle-class tax cuts, whether you're talking about increasing housing, these are things that most Americans support and want. They're the things that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are offering.
COLLINS: Governor Maura Healey, thank you for joining tonight.
HEALEY: Great to be with you.
COLLINS: Up next. Millions of dollars going to Donald Trump's businesses, from fellow Republicans, and his own campaign. We have a new CNN investigation with some questions.
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: New details, tonight, on how Donald Trump is profiting off power.
A new CNN analysis finds that political groups spent millions, at his businesses, this year on glitzy Mar-a-Lago fundraisers, stays at his hotels, flights on the former President's private plane. The money coming from two -- one of two places, fellow Republicans or Donald Trump himself.
Take, for example, the Ohio Senate candidate, Bernie Moreno. Trump endorsed him, on December 19th, 2023. Two days after that, Moreno spent $17,000 at Mar-a-Lago, before dropping another $80,000 on a fundraiser there, the next month. Moreno went on to win his primary. He is now the Republican nominee, in one of the closest Senate races, in the nation, against Sherrod Brown.
Joining me, tonight, is a journalist, with years of reporting, on Trump's finances. Senior Forbes Editor, Dan Alexander.
And Dan, it's great to have you.
Because when you look at these numbers. Bernie Moreno is the one we cited. But it is far from just him.
We also saw this with Herschel Walker, who ran for Senate, in the State of Georgia. We've seen, he's spent $215,000 at Trump properties.
We've seen it with Arizona Senate candidate, Kari Lake, a $100,000 just this year alone.
What do you make of what we are seeing, in such an unusual circumstance, of where this candidate is benefiting off of other Republicans, when they're obviously trying to have proximity to him.
DAN ALEXANDER, SENIOR EDITOR, FORBES, AUTHOR, "WHITE HOUSE, INC.": It's pretty obvious that people are trying to gain Trump's favor. And one way to do that, these days, is to pay him through his businesses.
And it's not just candidates, who want an endorsement. It could also be foreign ambassadors, or leaders, who want to stay at his hotels. There are all sorts of ways, to show Donald Trump that you're in his camp, by actually paying him, because he hung on all of his businesses.
COLLINS: I think some people might look at this. And how Trump spends money has been a thing, since he was in office. Obviously, we all remember when Vice President Pence stayed at a Trump property, when he was on an official trip in Doonbeg.
I mean, is any of this illegal? Does it just seem ethically questionable, when it comes to how these candidates are spending their money?
ALEXANDER: It certainly looks bad. The only way that it would be illegal is if the transactions are not done, at fair market value. But as long as people are paying for services, at the prices that they are worth, then that is legal.
[22:00:00]
Now, the trick here is that we don't know for sure what's happening. Because although we know the general payments, for example, somebody's paying for an event at Mar-a-Lago, we don't know what they're charging them from lobster, or wine, or whatever. And without those itemizations, you can't tell whether or not the deals were actually done at fair market value or whether they weren't.
COLLINS: Dan Alexander, obviously, a great question, given this practice does not appear to be ending. Thank you for joining us.
ALEXANDER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Thank you all so much for joining us, tonight.
You can catch me, later tonight, over on Max. The latest episode of "Real Time With Bill Maher" streaming now. I just shot it. Make sure you tune in and watch it.
Also tonight, next on CNN, "NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."
