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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
CNN Obtains Email Sent By Trump Campaign Operative: NH Is "No Longer A Battleground, Suspending All Resources"; Trump Insists U.S. Army Lied About Arlington Incident; DOJ Charges Hamas Leaders In October 7 Attack. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 03, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: The question is what happens afterwards, when, or if, the courts decide, as they did in 2020, that there was no evidence that they put forward, of the widespread fraud that he claimed.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes.
The book is "America's Deadliest Election." Dana Bash, congratulations. Thanks so much.
BASH: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Anderson.
COOPER: That's it for us.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. See you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
It's the critical final stretch before the election, the first ballots, set to go out in just days. We'll tell you what Donald Trump is warning voters about tonight.
And a son, of the late war hero, John McCain, breaking with the Republican Party, slamming the former President for using the hallowed ground at Arlington National Cemetery, as a campaign backdrop. Jim McCain calling it a violation.
And protests, raging for a third night, in Israel, following the murders of six hostages, including American, Hersh Goldberg-Polin. The thousands of angry demonstrators demanding that their government strike a deal to free the remaining hostages.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
With Labor Day behind us, it is now full speed ahead, until Election Day, just nine weeks from today. It is hard to believe, but yes, we are that close. And actually, we're even closer than that, because in just three days from now, the first ballots will go out in the critical battleground state of North Carolina. And as things are getting real, this reshaped race could not be closer, as it stands, at the moment. Donald Trump and Vice President Harris, both have potential paths to victory.
And with the voting starting soon, listen to what Trump is saying, this timely plea that he's making to voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We don't have long, we have, not that long, 60 days. We don't have a long time, the votes start going very shortly, and we have to, we have to be prepared to fight very hard.
Look, she's going to destroy our country. If she's elected, our country will be a different place, it will be a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I should note, it's 63 days. But still, very soon until that election.
But really, look at what's happening, one week from tonight, when Trump and Harris will be face-to-face on the debate stage, at this hour, which will actually be the first time that they have ever met in person.
We have new reporting ahead this hour, on how Harris is preparing for that showdown. We'll get to that in a moment.
But today, her campaign is primarily focused on needling Trump's, over the critical issue of reproductive rights, launching another bus tour, right in Trump's backyard, this time near Mar-a-Lago.
And Harris, for her part, is going to be delivering a speech, tomorrow, in New Hampshire, rolling out new economic proposals.
And speaking of the Live Free or Die state. The Trump campaign has just barred a top volunteer, for the campaign's New England operation, after that volunteer told supporters in an email that Trump was effectively pulling out of New Hampshire to focus on other battleground states, because the campaign determined that New Hampshire was no longer one of them.
I should note, the Trump campaign says that's not true, that they still have a strong ground presence there.
But a lot to discuss, tonight, with my political sources, who are here at the table with me, including:
Vice President Harris' former communications director, Jamal Simmons.
Trump's former White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.
As well as CNN Political Commentator, and the host of Spectrum News' "The Big Deal with Errol Louis," Errol Louis.
Great to have you all here.
But Alyssa, let me -- on this New Hampshire stuff that's coming out. This is Tom Mountain. He's a volunteer. The Trump campaign is downplaying his role. But in this email that he sent out, to other Republicans, he was saying that they're suspending all their resources, in the state, at this moment. As, you know, Trump's been posting on Truth Social, today, about Harris and New Hampshire.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Right. Well, first and foremost, that would be the prudent thing to do. Trump is not going to carry New Hampshire. That's simply a fact.
There are important down-ballot races. Obviously, Kelly Ayotte is in a tight race for the governorship there. So, I would -- you would hope that the Republican Party, and Trump campaign, is directing resources to her.
But listen, Kamala Harris upended the race. There was a moment, where when Joe Biden was still in, they were talking about Virginia being in play for Republicans, and for Trump. Now, this looks like a competitive map, where the Sun Belt is somewhere they're going to have to spend money.
She's appearing in Florida, a state she's not going to win. But I think it speaks to the fact that this became a very narrow field. It is really going to come down to just a hand -- handful of these battleground states. And she has him on his toes.
That said, it's neck-and-neck. We see these polls every single day. I could not put good money on who is going to win this election. But she's got the resources, and she's putting them out there.
COLLINS: Yes, and you heard Trump saying it's not going to be closed, it is going to be closed.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COLLINS: Just despite that, Harris has a very particular framing of how she's talking about this race, Errol.
This is what she said today about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's going to be a tight race to the very end. So, let's not pay too much attention to those polls.
We are the underdog in this race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00] COLLINS: I mean, she doesn't want anyone looking at any of the polls, showing her up in any of the battlegrounds and becoming too comfortable.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, HOST, SPECTRUM NEWS' "THE BIG DEAL WITH ERROL LOUIS": That's exactly right.
And regardless of the polls, the one that really counts, if you really want to gauge what the campaign thinks is important and where they want her to be, just look at where she's going, right?
She's making yet another trip into Georgia, in the next few days. She's going to be making another trip into North Carolina. We know what she's trying to do. We know why she's trying to do it. And that is what really matters.
Polls, of course, are a snapshot. The thing is, they're the snapshot of somebody, who hasn't made up their mind yet. So, you catch somebody on any given day, they're going to look to the left, they're going to look to the right, they might be leaning this way or that way. So, she understands what's going on.
I'm sure her campaign aides have pounded into her head that they have a chance to do something that will be historic. It's history-making. But that means you can't pay attention to the polls the way you normally would. You have to design your strategy, stick to your strategy, no matter what, not get thrown by stray comments from the other side, and certainly not by the polls.
COLLINS: Well, and speaking of where she's going, she's about to be in Pennsylvania, for the whole week. Starting on Thursday, Jamal, she's going to Pittsburgh. And what we're being told by sources that she's just basically camping out there, until that debate, one week from today, in Philadelphia, on Tuesday.
Do you think that's the right strategy? What do you make of that?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO VP HARRIS: Look, she's got to focus on Pennsylvania, because Pennsylvania is just so important.
The strategy that takes them to North Carolina, and Georgia, and even some of these expansion states, Arizona, is what's important, because she has a chance of perhaps having an Electoral College route, if she catches the right wave. The problem is, you got to be there.
But Pennsylvania is a linchpin, to make sure this all works. They're going to be in debate camp mode, right? So, some of this is going to be like, let's camp out and do some day trips, right? They aren't going to tax the candidate too much. Get back and do more prep. They've got to figure out, how do they make an argument about Donald Trump, not just throw a bunch of facts at the wall, right?
Only -- people will remember the core argument that's made in that debate. And that means that there's going to be some things, voters might want to hear about, they won't hear about, because they just don't support the argument that the candidate and the campaign are trying to make, during that debate.
COLLINS: Yes. And Trump is looking at this debate. He's been doing debate prep for, this, earlier than he did for Joe Biden, it seems, based on what we've been hearing.
Alyssa, I mean, what does that look like behind closed doors, with Trump, who has not successfully landed an attack line on Harris, really?
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes, and he frames it as policy time, which is basically different advisers going in, and kind of reminding him what his key points are on some of the core policies they're hoping he'll hit on, and proactively talk about in the debate.
He's never, you know this, he's never been a traditional debate- prepper, where you've got somebody playing the other candidate, and he does it for 90 minutes, and has just asked a ton of questions. So, I think that he's got staff around him, who are trying to remind him the issues that win for him with voters, the border, the economy, onshoring American jobs.
But he also is going up against somebody, who is so different than who he thought he was running against. A woman much younger than him, who he's never actually met, but has really strong feelings about. They need to be prepping him to not go off the rails, to not lash out, to not name-call. It won't play well for him, with the people he needs to win over. But it's Donald Trump. You just, you never know what you're going to get.
COLLINS: Well, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because Trump did this lengthy podcast today. And he -- the person was essentially saying, it's so much better when you're on message than when you are not on message. And I mean, it's kind of the most Trumpian moment.
Errol, you just -- everyone should just watch it and see what Trump's response was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEX FRIDMAN, HOST, LEX FRIDMAN PODCAST: From my personal opinion, I think you are at your best, when you're talking about a positive vision of the future, versus criticizing the other side.
TRUMP: Yes. I think you have to criticize, though. I think -- I think they're nasty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He was kind of saying I'm going to be--
LOUIS: Reluctantly, of course, right. Sadly, it is his duty to sort of be aggressive and nasty.
What he's not really going to be ready for, I think, and this is really where he ought to spend some debate prep time, is that Kamala Harris, unlike Joe Biden, is going to go on the attack.
This is a professional prosecutor. This is somebody, who knows how to break you down, hit you here, here, here, and then come back and do it again. And I think that's going to be the kind of narrative that she sort of builds in a way that he won't be able to wiggle out of, you know?
I mean, the normal Trump response is to say something so outrageous that it throws the opponent off guard, it captures the headline, it dominates the debate. I don't know that if that's going to be available to him that to--
COLLINS: Well, and I think that's a great point, because today, Trump just pleaded not guilty, formally again, to that retooled indictment by Jack Smith, in the election interference case. His attorneys are formally going to go and do that on Thursday. Trump has waived his right to an appearance.
But one of the criticisms that I heard from Democrats, and White House officials, after the CNN debate, was Biden didn't bring up Trump's conviction enough, or his indictments enough.
Is that something that you think she's going to bring up a lot?
[21:10:00]
SIMMONS: Listen, it depends on what their core argument is. They might decide that people know enough about that. It may also be that there's only one of them they really want to go at. There's only one proof point they need to make, to make sure that voters they're trying to target, really understand it.
But this is a key point about what Errol was just saying. What they can't do is get into a policy point-counterpoint, because that's not going to convince anybody of anything. It's going to be a bunch of facts up against the wall. They got to have a core argument.
And somebody's job also has to be in a debate prep -- can you say this word, a-hole, on national TV?
COLLINS: Your kids--
SIMMONS: But somebody's--
COLLINS: Your kids might not like it.
SIMMONS: Right.
COLLINS: I'm not going to say it (ph).
SIMMONS: But somebody's got to be the asshole here.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
SIMMONS: Like, somebody has got to sit there, and really prep her and get her to get annoyed and aggravated, because that's probably what Trump's going to do. And what you want her to do is to work out that aggravation, and prep, and not do it when she's on stage.
COLLINS: But that's a great point. Does Trump do that in prep, though? Is he willing to let someone, as Jamal puts it, be the a-hole to him, or -- I mean, Trump doesn't really like being criticized by people.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Not in my experience. And I never did presidential debate with him. But I did prep for town halls and media interviews.
He does, even if you prep him and say, hey, they might ask, do you denounce white nationalism? This was an actual conversation I had before an NBC Town Hall, he did. He's like, they're going to ask that, and flew off the handle, didn't want to answer it. So that's a pretty like--
COLLINS: He was mad at you, but not?
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes, that's a pretty easy thing to prep. And also, a really easy answer, by the way, to denounce white nationalism.
SIMMONS: Right.
FARAH GRIFFIN: But he's not someone you could prep in a traditional sense. And the biggest thing for him is simply to not get enraged, or say something crazy. If he can say it, kind of the baseline, that will work with the people, who are already with him and not lose him support.
But I think, by the way, we forget. The CNN Biden debate? Biden imploded so much that Trump kind of got a pass. He was a disaster for a solid half of that debate. The back half of it, he's talking about his golf handicap. He's going all over the map. That won't fly next to someone like Kamala Harris. It just won't work the same.
COLLINS: Yes, hopefully there's no comparing of golf scores, by people who want the nuclear codes.
And Errol, there was this moment today. Pat Toomey, the former senator from Pennsylvania, was on CNBC, and was saying he's not voting for Donald Trump. A lifelong Republican, everyone on Capitol Hill knows him. And it was just this interesting answer that he had about why.
This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT TOOMEY, FORMER UNITED STATES SENATOR: When you lose an election, and you try to overturn the results--
JOE KERNEN, "SQUAWK BOX" CO-ANCHOR, CNBC: OK. We all are familiar with--
TOOMEY: --so that you can stay in power?
KERNEN: We all are familiar with--
TOOMEY: You lose me. KERNEN: We're all--
TOOMEY: You lose me at that point.
KERNEN: OK.
TOOMEY: It is an acceptable position for me to say that neither of these candidates--
KERNEN: But it's going to -- it's going to--
TOOMEY: --can be my choice for president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And the host there, was arguing with him, saying, Supreme Court justices or the corporate tax rate should matter more.
But to hear Pat Toomey, this lifelong Republican say, you've lost me at this. How does--
LOUIS: Yes.
COLLINS: Is Trump, really -- I mean, he doesn't seem to be making any inroads to those kinds of voters.
LOUIS: Well, no, that's right. And that, look, that's a problem for him.
I mean, what former Senator Toomey was saying was that, what you did on January 6, Donald Trump? That's a deal-breaker for me. Treason is a deal breaker for me. Insurrection is a deal breaker for me. I'm not, you know, you're not getting me back.
And if there's enough of those people, in the right states, and he happens to be from Pennsylvania, that's going to be a real problem for the Trump campaign.
So, will he dial it back in some way? I don't know. I mean, he's been talking about giving pardons, to the hundreds and hundreds of people, who have been convicted of federal crimes, in connection with the insurrection. So, it doesn't sound like he's prepared to try and get Pat Toomey back or the Pat Toomeys of the world.
COLLINS: But he also said he's not voting for Harris. How does she speak to people like the Pat Toomeys of the world?
SIMMONS: Look, I think they've got a tier of people they're going after, right? Here are the people we can convince to vote for us. And they don't vote for us, don't vote for him either, right? So that's OK. But you don't (ph) want to deprive them of that vote.
It does feel like there are more and more Republicans, who are willing to say things in public today that weren't willing to do that over the last couple of years. You saw Jimmy McCain, today. I think you're going to talk about that. That's a big deal that people are going to -- because someone talks about the permission structure of giving other people the opportunity to say, You know what? I don't really like this guy, and maybe it's OK not to vote for him.
I don't know. You live in this world more than any of us.
FARAH GRIFFIN: No. And it's very--
SIMMONS: You know.
FARAH GRIFFIN: And you make an incredibly important point. Because I've lived in this space for the last four years. I'm not going to tell you to vote for a Democrat as a lifelong Republican who's never voted for Democrat. But I'm going to tell you why I don't think you should vote for Trump.
And when Biden was falling behind, the response was, but then that's just a vote for Donald Trump. It's a little different when it's a lot tighter, like I honestly think Kamala Harris should take the, I'm not voting for her, but I'm definitely not voting for him voters, because that's just denying him votes in key battleground states.
COLLINS: Yes. Fascinating to watch nine weeks from today.
Thank you all for being here.
Up next. We have new reporting on that debate prep that we just talked about with Jamal. How and where she is going to be preparing for a debate that could be critical, in this race.
And also, the son of late Republican icon, John McCain, publicly going after Donald Trump, for that visit to Arlington Cemetery.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With just seven days to go, until a critical debate night, Vice President Harris has what one might call the game tape on Donald Trump, given we all watched him debate President Biden, just two months ago, and we all saw how that went.
But fresh off her exclusive interview, right here, on CNN, last week, with Dana Bash. A reproductive rights bus tour through battleground Georgia. And a Labor Day appearance alongside President Biden in Pittsburgh. The question now is whether or not the Vice President will avoid her boss' fate, against Donald Trump, this time around.
My source, tonight, is the Democratic senator from Delaware, Chris Coons.
Senator, it's great to have you here.
What lessons are you hoping that Harris learns, from seeing that first Trump-Biden debate, to use in her own debate a week from tonight? SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, first, it's to take him seriously.
[21:20:00]
Look, former President Trump is capable of being a disruptive, a difficult opponent, on a debate stage. His greatest strength is his complete unpredictability. He doesn't follow any script, he doesn't respect facts or norms, and he just throws things out at a high speed, and with a lot of aggression.
So, I am confident that Vice President Harris is well-prepared. She is someone who, as a former prosecutor, whose client was the People of the United States, knows well how to handle someone, who is a repeat offender, who really only works for himself. But she's got to be prepared. And I know she will be.
In our time together, in the Senate, in my work with her, as Vice President, she is very well-prepared. And I think Donald Trump will struggle, to figure out how to deal with her, as someone he's never met before, someone he doesn't really know or understand.
And you can see, Kaitlan, in the last couple of weeks, he has really struggled to get his footing. There's 63 days until our presidential election. And Donald Trump did nothing, over Labor Day weekend, except double down on some of his most outrageous comments, about reproductive rights, and to make a commitment that he's going to vote to reinforce Florida's very strict abortion ban.
COLLINS: Yes, it's pretty remarkable that the first time they ever meet will be on that debate stage, in a week from today.
COONS: Yes.
COLLINS: And I want to ask you about something that James Carville wrote today. He was -- he's essentially giving Harris advice, in a New York Times opinion piece. We'll see if she takes it or leaves it.
The Democratic strategist saying that she should let him talk over her, that she should goad him into spouting insane conspiracy theories about the election. Use her sense of humor at key moments to get under his skin, show that he's not getting to her. And also, welcome the personal attacks as a badge of honor.
Is that the strategy you think she should take?
COONS: I do agree with James Carville that the more that she stays calm, and deflects his almost certain-to-come unpleasant, negative personal attacks, the more she just brushes it off, and makes it clear that he's not getting under her skin, the more likely it is that he will spout some of his more unhinged conspiracy theories, some of his views on the world and society.
If you watch his campaign rallies, they are long, rambling, unfocused diatribes. He has, in recent weeks, taken long time, to talk about whether he'd rather die by a shark eating him, or electrocution, talking up Hannibal Lecter, making unfounded conspiracy theories or unhinged comments.
As you just reported a few minutes ago, the son of a former colleague of mine, a genuine American war hero, John McCain, was so offended by what former President Trump did, at Arlington National Cemetery, that he announced publicly he's going to vote for Vice President Harris.
When you really get under Donald Trump's skin, you get to hear what he actually thinks.
And he recently said publicly, something about the Congressional Medal of Honor, and those who earn it, often by dying in sacrifice to our nation and our military, and how he thought the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which he had given to a donor to his campaign, was a better recommendation, was a better medallion of service to our country than the Congressional Medal of Honor.
That's just one of many ways in which the former President has disrespected our military, our veterans, those who fall in service to our nation.
And I think it's striking, as you just covered a few moments ago, that my former colleague, Republican senator, Pat Toomey, of Pennsylvania, has also just said he can't vote for Donald Trump, because of what he did--
COLLINS: Yes.
COONS: --to encourage an attempt at overthrowing the results of the last election.
COLLINS: I want to ask you about the Harris strategy, though.
Because you're obviously an incredibly close ally of President Biden's as well. He's going to be out in battleground states, this week. He's got events in Wisconsin, in Michigan. We saw him in Pennsylvania, yesterday. All of those blue wall critical states where he narrowly beat Trump in 2020.
But before he dropped out of this race, he was behind the polls -- in the polls, in those states. And so, I think it's a question of, is he the best surrogate for her in those states? And if so, why do you think so?
COONS: I think he's a great surrogate. And I think you saw, on Labor Day, in Pennsylvania, Joe Biden connecting with the folks, who know him so well, who he's represented for decades.
He was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I was just there, little over a week ago, campaigning for the Harris-Walz ticket, in Scranton, with folks who have known Joe Biden, their whole lives.
I campaigned in several different places, across the State of Pennsylvania. And I'll tell you, folks still deeply appreciate Joe Biden's lifetime of service, his values, the way he conducts himself and the way he's rooted in his faith, his family and his dedication to service. [21:25:00]
Why is he a great surrogate? Because across the three states, you just mentioned, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, people know him. The only reason he was beginning to fall behind was of questions about his energy, given his age.
Today, Donald Trump, a 78-year-old, demonstrably unfit man, both physically and morally, to continue in service as president, is facing an opponent in Kamala Harris, who is a generation younger, who is dynamic and energetic, and who was endorsed by Joe Biden.
In Joe Biden, you've got someone folks respect. They know his values. They know his priorities. And they know he fights for the middle- class. And in Donald Trump, they see someone who mostly fights for himself.
So, I think, Joe Biden is going to be a great surrogate, a great campaign partner, and someone who can talk about Vice President Harris' experience and leadership role, in getting done the great things that the Biden-Harris administration has done, for the American middle-class.
COLLINS: Senator Chris Coons, joining us from all the way overseas.
COONS: Kaitlan--
COLLINS: Thank you for taking the time--
COONS: Kaitlan, if I--
COLLINS: --to join us.
COONS: Kaitlan, if I could, for just one sentence. I wanted to share that I'm here in Seoul, Korea, with a bipartisan delegation of U.S. senators.
One of the greatest accomplishments of the Biden administration has been, a year ago, the Camp David summit that brought together Prime Minister Kishida of Japan, President Yoon of Korea.
And we are here today, in Seoul, a bipartisan group of senators, working to strengthen and to deepen that partnership between South Korea, Japan and the United States. It's led by Senator Hagerty. But you've got a broad and representative group of senators.
And I appreciate a chance to just make sure I emphasize why this is a good thing, for us to be doing, to extend this key strategic accomplishment.
COLLINS: Yes, and clearly, you don't need any sleep. Senator Chris Coons, thank you very much.
COONS: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We have an exclusive new remarks from the son of the late war hero, John McCain. As you just heard, Senator Coons mention there. This is all about Donald Trump's visit to Arlington Cemetery, with this McCain now calling it a quote, violation.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the son of the late Senator, John McCain, says Donald Trump's campaign event, at Arlington National Cemetery, was a violation, with First Lieutenant, Jim McCain, telling Jake Tapper this, earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MCCAIN, SON OF SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: These young people are taking time, out of their lives, when they could be bettering themselves, you know, college, things like that, and they're joining the military because they feel it's the right thing.
And the least we can do is when they're gone, if they, you know, when they're in Arlington, is to respect the rules and regulations that are in place, like not politicizing the fact that these men and women are there.
Go. Show respect. I understand that he was invited. Show respect and leave. It doesn't need to be videoed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That comes as Trump is continuing to insist that the U.S. Army is lying about what happened during that visit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There we was no conflict. There was no fight. There was no anything. And I get home that night and I get, like, a call that - from one of the people that is press - 'Sir. There's a story that your people got into a tremendous fight with people representing the, uh, the cemetery.'
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump says the Army's version of what happened, when his team took photos and filmed at the cemetery in ways that violate the Army regulations and federal law, is a lie, and also implied that it could have been a setup.
Trump was at Arlington to mark three years since the bombing at Kabul's airport, Abbey Gate, in Afghanistan, that killed 13 U.S. service members. The families of several of those service members say they invited Trump to be there and to take pictures.
But political activity, at the cemetery, is not allowed. Despite that, Trump's campaign posted a video of the visit, on TikTok, showing the former President walking through Arlington, and visiting different gravesites. The U.S. Army then said that Trump's team knew the rules, yet abruptly pushed aside a cemetery employee, who tried to enforce them.
The Trump campaign denies that a physical altercation happened.
And now, the former President is claiming that Vice President Harris, quote, "Made it all up."
I'm joined tonight by the Veterans of Foreign Wars' National Commander, retired Army Captain, Al Lipphardt.
Captain, I just want to say first, thank you for your service. And thank you for joining us on this.
Obviously, Donald Trump had every right to be at this cemetery with the Gold Star families who wanted him there.
But in your view, do you think it's appropriate to use an event, like that one, for political purposes? Or do you think it crosses a line?
CAPT. AL LIPPHARDT (RET.), U.S. ARMY, NATIONAL COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS: Well, the Veterans of Foreign Wars has been in existence for 125 years. And our 1.4 million members, I can assure you, would be against anyone that tried to politicize, especially on that hallowed ground.
But the fact that that family, or those families, invited Mr. Trump, to be there, to show the respect for the last full measure of devotion that those individuals gave, and to allow him to photograph it, or have it photographed, is that's a -- that's a prerogative that they had.
[21:35:00]
And again, I would not presume to know the law that is on the books about holding a political event, on the National Cemetery.
But I know that the Veterans of Foreign Wars, when we were founded, the purpose is fraternal, patriotic, historical, charitable and educational. And we -- we respect and honor those that have paid the ultimate price. Everybody that serves in uniform is due respect.
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: But those who have deployed, well, that's what -- that's what we're -- that's what we're for.
And, yes, I really can't -- that -- you'd have to take that up with the families on--
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: --allowing that to be done, because I don't know what the law is.
COLLINS: Well, yes. And I looked into this earlier. Because I was curious. I've been to Arlington many times. I used to live in Washington, and would go there periodically.
It's essentially saying, not even blatant political activities. It's just even the impression of it, given, of course, you can't presume the politics or anything of any of those people, and those who gave their lives.
I just want to ask, though. Trump is -- the Army is saying one thing. Trump is saying another.
You served in the Army from 1965 to 1979. I mean, have you ever -- would you believe that anything they have -- they have said would be dishonest or not exactly what happened?
LIPPHARDT: I live in the same country as you, Kaitlan, and I'm around the same people as you. And when I hear something, I hear it. If I didn't see it, I don't know. I can't believe everything that I hear. That's my way of saying that, yes, I think there are people that will say anything.
This is just a shame that it's -- this happened to be a political time -- the election season. I mean, to -- for a former President -- and there have been a number. I know that President Obama and President Clinton, as well as a number of others, have been to the National Cemetery, and done what Mr. Trump did, and that was to honor those that gave the ultimate sacrifice.
But now, to say that he went beyond that? I can't say. I didn't see it. The Army says it.
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: I wasn't there.
COLLINS: Yes, they're saying a campaign staffer pushed someone aside.
And I should note. Your group is apolitical. And you're joining us here tonight.
After Trump said that the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is for civilians, was much better to get than the Medal of Honor, obviously, which is for our military and people who often give their lives in their service here. You said those remarks were, quote, asinine.
It was a remarkable moment, because you're not a group that often speaks out in moments like that. As I said, you're apolitical.
Do you stand by those comments?
LIPPHARDT: Absolutely. But they were not directed at Mr. Trump. Those comments were anybody that would say that the Presidential Medal of Freedom is comparable, or actually more prestigious than the Medal of Honor. That's an asinine statement.
And when you look in the dictionary, to find the definition of asinine, it says extraordinarily stupid.
And that is an extraordinarily stupid remark, for anybody to make, that those who have gone above and beyond the call of duty, to sacrifice their life, so others can live, to say that it is not, it should not be held in higher esteem than the Presidential Medal of Freedom, is ludicrous.
You know the Presidential Medal of Freedom only takes one person to nominate you. That would be the president.
[21:40:00]
The Medal of Honor is not awarded by the President. It is presented by the President. The Medal of Honor is a Congressional medal. That is the People of the United States. The People of the United States is who awards, or approves that medal for those individuals.
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: And what a -- yes, again, it's just not -- but unfortunately, some people -- again, it's an election season, if people read into it. I don't take back on -- I don't take back my remark. It was an asinine thing to say. But it was not -- he just be -- he just happened to be the one that was there, when he -- when he said it. And that's what--
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: That's what the Veterans of Foreign Wars is for. I mean, we take care of veterans.
COLLINS: Yes.
LIPPHARDT: We want to make sure that the promises that were made are the promises that are kept.
COLLINS: And we appreciate that so much, and your service. Captain Al Lipphardt, thank you for joining tonight.
LIPPHARDT: Well, Kaitlan, thank you. Again, I'm humbled to be here. Thank you very much.
COLLINS: We're humbled -- humbled to have you. Thank you very much.
And Alyssa Farah Griffin is back here with me.
And obviously, the Captain, he does not represent a political group.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, his comments about what Trump had said about that were remarkable. And it's also just the broader pattern of what this all fits in. What happened at Arlington Cemetery, the fact that they are in this argument with the staffer, the comments that he described as asinine about--
FARAH GRIFFIN: Right.
COLLINS: --the Medal of Freedom and the Medal of Honor.
FARAH GRIFFIN: And it's kind of twofold.
Donald Trump's just never understood service and sacrifice as it applies to the U.S. military. He himself didn't serve. He didn't try to learn it, as he did, and as he was in office, asking questions about salaries that people made in the military, or wondering why they'd go into service.
And the other is, when you make a mistake, just own it. I did a bunch of visits to Arlington National Cemetery, with Vice President Pence. There's protocols, there's processes. Especially in Section 60, you don't do photography. But if you made that mistake--
COLLINS: Which is where those from Iraq and Afghanistan--
FARAH GRIFFIN: --which is -- yes.
COLLINS: --the war dead are buried.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COLLINS: And still have family members, and--
FARAH GRIFFIN: And, by the way, when you go, you will almost always see somebody mourning someone at a gravesite. It's an incredibly quiet, intimate place.
And if those families asked for it and he took the picture? I don't know why he's smiling and thumbs-upping. Then just own it, and don't let this be a weeks-long story that really continues to fuel this fire that you don't respect those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for our nation. But that's classic Trumpism. You just have to double down. You can't admit fault.
And the way that his staff has handled it is almost worse than the offense itself, in some ways.
COLLINS: Yes, saying the staffer was having a mental breakdown?
FARAH GRIFFIN: A mental breakdown. And, by the way, all of this--
COLLINS: A mental health episode.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes. And distracting from something very important, which there should be more scrutiny over the withdrawal from Afghanistan. That is an incredibly legitimate point for Donald Trump to highlight. That's not what's being talked about. It's him not rep -- not properly handling himself in a very, very sacred American spot.
COLLINS: Alyssa Farah Griffin, thank you.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Thank you. COLLINS: Up tonight. Is it a breaking point, as thousands of people, tonight, are still protesting in Israel, demanding the government there, the Prime Minister finally strike a deal, to bring the remaining hostages home.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A breaking story that we're following closely, here tonight, as the United States has now charged several senior Hamas leaders, responsible for the October 7th attack against Israel, all of them facing terrorism charges and conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals.
The terror organization's leader, in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, is among those who has been charged. Of course, he is one of the masterminds behind October 7th.
The announcement from the Justice Department comes after the confirmed death of the Israeli-American hostage, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, in Gaza. President Joe Biden has vowed to hold Hamas leaders accountable for his murder.
Joining me tonight. CNN National Security Analyst, and also the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.
And it's great to have you here, Beth.
I mean, with these charges, against the Hamas leaders, we're now told by a Justice Department official, this was actually filed, back in February, but it was kept under seal until now. What impact does this have?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, most people are saying that this is a symbolic move. I don't know if -- what that means exactly.
I think that these kinds of things are really important, because the United States needs to be holding terrorists accountable. And over 40 Americans have been killed since October 7th, on that day and since, at the hands of Hamas.
And Sinwar is alive. And two of the other people are alive, including this guy named Khaled Mashal, who lives in Qatar. And just this past week, he gave an interview, where he encouraged U.S. students to be protesting for Hamas, and providing money to Hamas, not just for food and shelter, but to buy weapons. So, I mean, these people are still around, and they're actually affecting Americans.
So yes, I think that's a good thing to do. And maybe it'll be more than symbolic. We don't know.
COLLINS: What would that look like if it was more than symbolic?
SANNER: Well, I think what it looks like is maybe something happens to particularly Mashal, who lives in Qatar, and another guy who lives in Beirut.
And it's possible -- we don't have extradition treaties with those countries. But it's possible that there's some kind of justice that will come to them as a result of this. And certainly, it will decrease their room for maneuver. It's hard to travel to Turkey, for example, when you have a U.S. arrest, a warrant on your head. So, I think it has some effects.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Yes. And the other thing that Attorney General Garland announced today is that they're investigating the murder of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, who was an American, who was among the hostages whose bodies were found on Saturday, tragically. I mean, we all heard from -- everyone knows his parents. We heard from them at his funeral, in recent days.
For an investigation like that, what does that look like, at this point?
SANNER: Well, there's a lot of intelligence that is going on. This is one of the ways that they have found hostages in the past. Maybe not this six.
But there certainly are, you know, I think that there are ways that they are going to be interrogating people, whom they capture, and there will be videos and other things, and they may very well be able to find out who exactly killed Hersh, and the other five hostages. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility.
And then, if that's the case, you know, if these terrorists are not killed, they may very well find themselves, facing justice, either in Israel or even in the United States. So, it's possible.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, obviously, just for his family, his parents, everyone who knew and loved these six hostages who were murdered. Answers would be -- would be what they would -- what they would like to see here.
Beth Sanner, thank you very much.
SANNER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. Elon Musk is attacking Vice President Harris, now using fake images on the social media platform that he owns, which also appear to violate his own policies.
We'll talk about it with Donie O'Sullivan.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the world's richest man, and owner of the social media platform, X, formerly known as Twitter, still known to me as Twitter, is now using AI to up his attacks on Vice President Kamala Harris.
Elon Musk shared this image of Harris, implying that she is a communist, wearing a red uniform with a hammer and sickle emblazoned hat. He captioned the image, saying that Harris "Vows to be a communist dictator on day one. Can you believe she wears that outfit?"
Well, you actually can't believe it, because that image that you're looking at is not real. And it also appears to violate his own platform's policy, when it comes to manipulated content.
CNN's Senior Correspondent, Donie O'Sullivan, joins me now.
I mean, and Donie, you did an analysis of this today. You noted that that image that I just showed has already been seen 60 million times. What do you make of the fact that there's no community note, there's no fact-check under an image that is obviously fake?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, look, I mean, Musk and his many, many supporters, vocal, which he has on his own platform, will say this sort of stuff. It's clearly satire, or it's clearly meant to be a joke, or it's clearly fake.
But it does seem to be one set of rules for Musk and other set of rules for everybody else on the platform.
Musk has run into this issue since he bought Twitter, a few years ago, now called X, although you don't like to call it x, as neither do I. But that, you know, it has just become this kind of hotbed of hate and misinformation.
He does have a kind of crowdsourced fact-checking tool on the platform called Community Notes. And that post from Musk there, with that fake image, that fake image likely, by the way, likely generated through Musk's own AI tool, called Grok or Grok, I am not sure exactly how you pronounce it, on the platform, is normally the sort of thing that would have a label. But, of course, he runs the platform, and I guess people don't want to upset him.
COLLINS: OK. But if you or I posted that, it would have a community note on there, probably.
O'SULLIVAN: I would say, very likely, yes.
COLLINS: OK. And then the other thing this weekend that Elon Musk shared was a post that suggested -- and he shared this. This wasn't his authored post, I believe.
But it suggested that only high status males should be able to participate in government, because women aren't, essentially the argument was, capable of critical thought, which Elon Musk said he found to be an interesting observation.
I mean, just the fact that, obviously he owns it, he can share whatever he wants, clearly. But he's sharing stuff that normally you'd see just on random corners of the internet that are trafficked by losers. And I just-- O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
COLLINS: It speaks to the power, though, that he has to disseminate this kind of stuff.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And if you show that post again that he highlighted, too?
By the way, he's the most followed person, the most followed account on Twitter. He has almost 200 million followers.
The post there that he highlighted actually came from 4chan which, if people are not familiar, it's really one of the darkest, fringiest corners of the internet. It is full of hate, racism, sexism. It has been linked to real-world violence. It's been linked to mass shootings, here in the U.S. and also elsewhere around the world. This is the sort of stuff that he is dredging up and then posting.
And look, obviously, it is ridiculous, right? This sexist and xenophobic suggestion. But it is the sort of thing that is getting traction, right, online, particularly among these young men, who feel aggrieved in some way, who spend all their time online, watching livestreams, staying inside, and who sort of view themselves as these alpha males, but they feel like America's leaving them behind, and that they are some way supreme, and that they're owed something.
And we're seeing this all over, from people like Andrew Tate, to all these kind of toxic online influencers.
[22:00:00]
So this is, it's absurd when you look at it on the face of it. But it's also really kind of playing into something that is a major issue. These are people, who spend too much time online, and watching livestreams, and maybe should be smiling more.
COLLINS: Donie O'Sullivan, you always make us smile, here on THE SOURCE. Thank you for joining us, tonight, to share all that.
Thank you all for joining us here. Really great to be back.
And now, up next, it is "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."
