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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Insists He "Won" Debate, Contradicting Some Allies; Harris Deflects On Economy, Immigration, Abortion; Taylor Swift Endorses Harris For President. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 11, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Anderson, all of the women in our group did think that Donald Trump did poorly, at the debate, including the Republican women. In fact, one Republican woman gave Kamala Harris, a glowing review, saying that she seemed energetic and smooth on stage, though she is still voting for Donald Trump, not because she likes Trump, but because she likes his policies.
And then, Anderson, the two Democrats, in our group, really seemed to connect with Kamala Harris. They liked the fact that she sort of broke that fourth wall, and turned to the camera and spoke directly to the viewer, directly to the voter. They really seemed to connect with her on that, and that really cemented their vote.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Fascinating. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
I have new reporting about Donald Trump, and the debate fallout, as he's unsure about a rematch with Vice President Harris. My source tonight, the person who played Trump, in her debate prep.
Also, the second most notable handshake that has happened, in the last 24 hours, between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.
And from Washington, tonight, we're going to speak with senators, Cory Booker and Bill Hagerty, and also Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, will all join me live in studio.
And apparently, she is in her Harris era. Taylor Swift's endorsement of the Vice President, leads to a sudden spike in voter registration interest. Could this celebrity endorsement be the one that actually moves the needle? We'll find out.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE. It didn't take long to go from anywhere, anytime, anyplace, to anything but that tonight. Donald Trump now says he's not sure if he wants a rematch with Vice President Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're looking at it. But you know, when you win, you don't really, necessarily have to do it a second time. So, we'll see.
When a fighter has a bad fight, gets knocked out, or loses the fight, the first thing he says is, we want a rematch. So, we won the debate, according to every poll, every single poll. I think that -- are we going to do a rematch? I just don't know. But we'll think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Donald Trump claiming he won that debate, as even some of his own allies are conceding privately to me, tonight, that at best, it was a draw. We'll get more to that reporting in a moment.
But if you needed any indication of how Trump himself felt, about the performance, look at what he did immediately after he got off stage, last night, coming to what is known, in politics, as the spin room. That's usually where surrogates show up, to spin their respective candidate's performance.
But last night, this candidate took matters into his own hands, telling me this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Some of your advisers are worried that -- excuse me -- that you took the bait from Kamala Harris, tonight. What would you say to that?
TRUMP: This was a great debate tonight. This was my best debate. We had a 92 percent rating in one poll. We had an 86 percent rating in another. We had 77 percent in another. We had -- we won every one of the polls that came out tonight. There were quite a few of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: With the first debate now in the books, there's real questions about whether or not there will be a second.
There was a second handshake, today, perhaps more surprising even than that first one that we all watched, last night. This one came just hours later, at Ground Zero, in New York, marking the 23rd anniversary of 9/11, as Michael Bloomberg, the former New York City Mayor, brokered that shake that you're seeing there.
Stood in stark contrast to what we all witnessed, last night. A dominating performance from Harris, to knock Trump off his course, getting him to take the bait over and over again that even one of his prized surrogates had trouble spinning today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., (I) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Harris clearly won the debate, in terms of her delivery, her polish, her organization and her preparation.
I think, on substance, President Trump wins, in terms of his governance and -- but he didn't tell that story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source, tonight, might be the main reason why Trump was knocked so off his game. We'll speak to him in a second.
But I do want to start with some new reporting for you, tonight, on what happened, in Philadelphia, last night.
I'm told that as soon as Donald Trump exited that debate stage, he immediately began quizzing those, waiting in his viewing room, about how the last 90 minutes had gone.
While several people praised him to his face, telling him that he did a great job, that's not what a lot of them are saying privately today. Instead, those around Trump have described what happened is a draw at best and a loss at worst.
Several of them told CNN they were stunned that the former President failed to do a better job executing on the talking points that he had been preparing, with his team, for weeks, against Vice President Harris, her record, her policy reversals.
Trump had actually done more debate prep ahead of his first meeting with Harris than he did for his debate with President Biden, earlier this summer.
Yet, they didn't believe that he made some of the central arguments against her, including this one about why she hasn't carried out the promises that she's making now, in the last three and a half years that she has been in office.
[21:05:00]
He didn't go there until his closing argument that surprised a lot of people in his inner circle. Instead, they believe that Trump took the bait, every single time, Harris offered it up.
While multiple Trump allies described what happened, last night, as a missed opportunity, for the former President, they have since started downplaying the debate's significance overall, arguing that it won't shift his numbers, with voters, in states like Pennsylvania.
Trump himself is non-committal, today, about a potential second debate. But almost every ally of his, that I spoke with, said they do ultimately believe he will agree to one.
We want to start this hour with my inside source, Philippe Reines, who reprised the role of Donald Trump, during Harris' debate prep sessions, which he first played eight years ago, for Hillary Clinton, which was described by our friend, Annie Karni, as a method actor kind of role, you took three months off work for that.
You posted a picture, today, of your debate prep. You are dressed in a dark suit, a red tie. And I believe that is bronzer on your face.
PHILIPPE REINES, PLAYED TRUMP IN HARRIS' DEBATE PREP: It's not just bronzer. It's about three layers of bronzer. And I had makeup done earlier. And the artist said, Oh, you already have makeup on. And I said, No, what do you mean? And I realized that no matter how much I've been washing my face, and showering, I can't get it off. I don't -- I see why he's always like that.
But, look, he's going to do another one. He can't leave it like this.
COLLINS: But tell me what you did to prep her for this one.
Obviously, Donald Trump has a lot of experience, on the debate stage. That's why his allies were hoping that he would have a stronger performance, last night.
She's never done a presidential debate before, obviously. How did you get her ready to go up not just on the presidential debate stage, but against Donald Trump?
REINES: Well, I mean, first of all, it's a team. And it was co-led by Karen Dunn of the Ron Klain model, and Rohini Kosoglu, who's known the Vice President forever.
I had never met her, which I guess turned out for the best, because he had never met her. I was focused on the left side of the screen, just making sure that she could get used to what she would see and feel.
It's -- I always think of it as the ball machine, you know? You want to test the forehand. The ball comes at you. You want to do the backhand. But you've got tennis pros. The point being, you want them to say what they want to say, because it's a job interview. You've got millions of people, who are trying to decide.
And he knows that the only way he can get the job is by not letting her speak, not letting her getting her ideas out. And to do that, you have to be loud, you have to be buffoonish, you have to lie like there's no tomorrow.
And she did an amazing job of doing three things. One, showing that she's presidential.
COLLINS: Yes.
REINES: I mean, that woman, last night, is a real deal, and that was a game-day player.
COLLINS: Did you break character at all? I mean, Hillary Clinton famously said that you wouldn't break character, even at lunch and whatnot. REINES: Maybe once or twice. My alarm in my house went off once, and I had to answer the phone to give them the safe word. That was just poor timing.
But she showed that she was presidential. She made a really good point that people haven't done, which is that the guy was president for four years. He has a record. It's a failing record, and he was fired for it. That has not been made enough, and you have this idea of amnesia.
And third, I mean, look, I did this eight years ago. And I did it now. I've had to watch him and pretend and -- he's decompensating that -- his language, how he thinks, how he speaks.
COLLINS: You think he's different now than when you were prepping Hillary Clinton, eight years ago.
REINES: Absolutely. Absolutely.
COLLINS: How so?
REINES: Eight years ago, he would digress. He would talk about China. Then he would talk about the Bank of China was in Trump Tower. He was all over the place, but to some extent, structured.
Now, he's over the board. You're talking about cats. And it's not just that you're talking about cats and dogs, which is crazy in and of itself. It's that you're going from rally size to cats and dogs.
It's a malfunctioning appliance. It's like, we all have people in our lives with a laptop. At some point, it might have been, the laptop. Now it's, the battery drains fast. The screen colors are off. It's really heavy, considering what's going on, and you have to restart a lot, to get back to factory default. And I think that's what we saw, last night.
He is not carrying thoughts through. When I -- if I were to lose my train of thought, right now, I'd be silent for a second or two, and then I'd recover. I think he's losing the train of thought, and he's just blurting out the next thing in his mind.
He's not using names a lot. Like look, he goes off about COVID, but never mentions Anthony Fauci. I mean, if this had been four years ago, you'd have to hear five minutes about Anthony Fauci, or Jim Comey when he goes off about Russia.
COLLINS: That's interesting. And one of these--
REINES: He's 80.
COLLINS: --searing moments was the entrance on the debate stage. She kind of strode over and shook his hand, said her name. Obviously, they had never met.
Was that rehearsed? How was that decided?
REINES: It's not a matter of rehearsal. I mean, it's a human thing to do.
[21:10:00]
Before Donald Trump ran for president, you'd never even have a conversation about would Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have a handshake. And Hillary shook his hand in the first debate. After Access Hollywood, in the second debate, she basically said, I'm not touching that guy. He had COVID.
She basically was the bigger person. And she's like, you know, we're going to start this out. Never met. Hi, I'm Kamala. And you know what, dude? Maybe you can -- you know damn well how to pronounce my name. Maybe you should stop trying to keep the Fox audience -- this is -- this is just in my head.
COLLINS: So, she wanted to shake his hand, though?
REINES: Oh, yes. I mean, she clearly, you know, in her mind, that was the right bigger thing to do.
COLLINS: Trump's allies are irritated that he did keep taking the bait that was so obviously bait, especially when she talked about crowd sizes. And she invited people to go to his rally. Talked about people getting exhausted, leaving early, which doesn't necessarily happen, because they don't like him.
It's just, I mean, those rallies, they're four hours. You go, you're there in line. I've been to many of them. How did--
REINES: I have watched many of them.
COLLINS: How did you decide, in debate prep, which things to try to target to get under his skin?
REINES: It's not targeting, per se. It's, first of all, they're facts. I mean, forget that one aside about something in particular. When you talk about someone talking about sharks and electrocution, or Hannibal Lecter, those are facts, and they're making a larger point. You are talking about someone detached from reality, or someone, who is not thinking about you. I mean, they're not just gratuitous shots.
What -- if she had just been sitting there going tit for tat with him? That would be pointless. But she -- it gave her space, to tell people, This is what he did. This is why he was fired. This is what we inherited. This is what President Biden and I tried. And this is what I'm going to do, going forward.
And if you don't give yourself the space to do that, to carve that out, he is going to pretend that he just came on the scene, a month ago, and that he has never had a record, he's never failed on immigration.
I mean, the border wall, it's not there. It's just not there. We all heard it. It's important to make that clear. And she did a phenomenal job of doing that. COLLINS: Well, and Kevin Madden, as you listen to what the prep looked like, behind-the-scenes, what do you make of how she executed, and how Trump responded to it?
KEVIN MADDEN, ADVISER, MITT ROMNEY'S 2008 & 2012 CAMPAIGNS: Well, I think the brilliance of her strategy was that it was very simple, right? I mean, she wanted to do two things.
She wanted to talk directly to swing voters, about the issues that they care about, that they still need an information fill from her on. And then, she wanted to essentially bait Trump, into talking about everything but the issues that people care about, and talk about the past, and relitigate the past. And he did that every single time.
And so, that was like the -- it was such a clear contrast that it was a case of a strategy versus no strategy. And that had to, I think, sink into the sort of consciousness of a lot of voters, out there, who make up this -- they make up their minds on this, on performance, and they judge it on performance.
But they also said, you know, if I'm looking for somebody, who understands the problems of people like me and has -- is going to talk about where we're going to take this country in the future? There was a very clear sort of sense of which candidate that was last night--
COLLINS: Yes.
MADDEN: --in my view.
COLLINS: Well, and Kristen Soltis Anderson, we heard from so many Trump officials today, who said, We don't care what the pundits think. We care what Pennsylvania voters think.
I mean, how do voters look at what happened, last night? How Harris made those arguments against so many comments of Trump -- from Trump that we've heard over the years. How did they receive something like that?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER: So, because this debate was so much about Donald Trump, that's why I think you are unlikely to see the polls move a ton.
It was definitely a better debate for Harris than for Trump. And so, to the extent that she was hoping to keep the positive momentum going, coming out of the DNC, she had made this a close race, can you keep the balloon up in the air? This debate probably did help that, a little bit.
But it also, I don't think, clearly defined her, on the terms she wanted to be defined by. Donald Trump also, frankly, threw away every opportunity, to define her, on his terms.
But it was really a debate that kept being about Donald Trump. And I think Harris is more than happy to have it be that way, right? She keeps making the case, I'm not the incumbent. Don't look at we. Donald Trump's the incumbent. He's been the main character in politics for the last decade. And last night's debate really underscored that. But that's why I think it's unlikely to make a big, big, big difference in the polls.
COLLINS: Well, and I also was thinking of how these undecided voters were viewing Harris herself, because what they've seen so much of, are clips of some of her comments, out on the campaign trail, word salad, kind of, of moments that she's had that were not strongest moments that a lot of politicians have had. But saw a very different Harris than what has always been portrayed, maybe in conservative media--
MADDEN: Yes.
COLLINS: --or by Republicans, last night.
MADDEN: No, that's the sort of managing expectations part of this. And, I think, usually when you have these debates, you try to lower the expectations beforehand. But I think both candidates know that, since we're kind of in this European snap election sort of cycle, they had to embrace the stakes of the race.
[21:15:00]
And -- but everybody's saying that Harris is going to fall flat on her face, and she can't, she doesn't have any plan. And then, she actually starts to talk in some detail, not great detail. I mean, I think that charge is still true. But about things like housing, about inflation, about the economy, about national security.
The Commander-in-Chief test that's sort of very difficult for a lot of people to pass, when you're going up against an incumbent president? I think she reached it, last night.
And so, you have a lot of voters, to Kristen's point, you have a lot of voters out there right now that left that debate, last night, and they're very curious about her. They're not yet converted, but they're on the path. And that's really all you can ask for, when you have a -- when you have an opportunity to talk directly to 57 million people with only 50-plus days to go till Election Day.
REINES: Yes. I mean, you've got that sliver, who still doesn't know.
MADDEN: Right, like 7 or 8 percent, right?
REINES: And you don't know what they're basing it on. But there's not a single one of those people that watched, last night, who, as a result of the debate, said, You know what? Trump's looking better to me than he was 90 minutes ago.
People want to learn more about Kamala Harris. And when they do, they'd like her. Look, I only met her six weeks ago. If I were sitting at home, last night, and I was watching that debate, I would think, she is ready to be President, right now--
SOLTIS ANDERSON: It--
REINES: --and I think that guy needs to be locked up.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: It seems to me the key that she was -- the key group she was trying to speak to were -- there are about 7 percent of Trump voters that actually don't like him personally. They're like, I just can't with this guy. But on policy, I lean more to the right, I think he's probably better on policy.
Kamala Harris embraced the support of, Goldman Sachs says my economic plan is good. Dick Cheney says I'd be a good president. I own a gun.
I mean, she was really laying it on thick, to try to reach out to any Republican or ex-Republican voter that has thought, I don't know if I can go there with San Francisco liberal Kamala. But if she's actually moderate, maybe I'll give her a second look.
COLLINS: Yes, the gun comment was notable. She said it in a CNN Town Hall, in 2019. But obviously, it was notable to hear it there.
Thank you all so much, especially Philippe, who's wearing his cufflinks still, from playing Donald Trump.
Up next. Advice on the intense road ahead in this campaign trail. We're going to speak to two Harris supporters. Senator Cory Booker, and also Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, will both join me live here, tonight.
Plus, the world's most famous, self-described childless cat lady got a very swift response to her Get Out The Vote call. We'll tell you what happened.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Fresh off her debate with Donald Trump, Vice President Harris' team is huddling at campaign headquarters, today, strategizing about their next move.
Her aides tell CNN that they're operating under the assumption that the trajectory of this race remains unchanged, tonight. Harris said as much herself, last night, as she called herself the underdog, when she stopped by a celebration with supporters, I'm told.
My source, tonight, is the Democratic senator from New Jersey, Cory Booker.
Senator, great to have you.
Does last night, and her performance, which many people in your party, including yourself, have praised, does it change this race, for the next eight weeks, and how she runs it?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Well, first of all, it was really, really important that you got your first side-by-side comparison, American got to see these two folks and the contrasts between them. And so, I think it was really important for people to remind Trump -- to be reminded of who Trump is.
And I think that's where she gets -- she really gave a masters class in allowing the story of Trump to come out. Sometimes she told it. But I think the most brilliant thing she did is allow Trump to tell the American public himself who they are. He was demeaning. He was degrading. He was sort of, in an Alex Jones type way, dabbling in conspiracies and the like. And it was very helpful.
So, this was a very good night. And for Americans, that were still trying to make up their mind, it was really important.
But let's be clear. From the second she jumped in this race, just four weeks or so ago, she's known that this is an uphill fight, and that she has to earn every single vote.
COLLINS: Yes.
BOOKER: And I know she's determined to do that.
COLLINS: Well, and she's also less of a known quantity to voters. Pretty much everyone has an opinion, on Donald Trump, when you look at voters, just a very small slice that maybe hasn't decided.
But she was asked a lot of questions, last night, about her views and her policies. There were several she did not answer directly. This is a look at those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS HOST: Do you believe Americans are better off than they were four years ago?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: So, I was raised as a middle-class kid. And I am actually the only person on this stage who has a plan that is about lifting up the middle class and working people of America.
MUIR: Why did the administration wait until six months before the election to act? And would you have done anything differently from President Biden, on this?
HARRIS: So I'm the only person on this stage who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings.
TRUMP: You should ask, will she allow abortion in the eighth month, ninth month, seventh month?
HARRIS: Come on.
TRUMP: OK. Would you do that? Why don't you ask her that question?
HARRIS: Why don't you answer the question, would you veto--
TRUMP: That's the problem. Because under Roe v. Wade--
HARRIS: --answer the question, would you veto--
TRUMP: --you could -- you could--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He didn't not answer the question about whether he'd veto a national abortion ban.
But her views, on those matters are important, the economy, immigration, abortion. Do you think that she should owe voters a direct answer on those questions?
BOOKER: Well, first of all, it's not that hard. You know this, because we've -- you've talked about it on your show.
She's outlined very specific plans on things like housing. In fact, something that as a former housing advocate in New Jersey, is really exciting about, creating more housing stock, creating more affordable housing, giving Americans, middle-class tax cuts, like expanding the Child Tax Credit. Here's a very detailed plan going out there.
[21:25:00]
And she has also told the story that, again, that Trump was getting wrong. Like, when at the end of the Trump administration, violent crime in this country was skyrocketing, at the end of his administration. Violent crime is dramatically going down on hers.
Jobs, in his administration, we were losing manufacturing jobs. The unemployment rate was going up. Now, we have one of the lowest measured unemployment rates, in our country's history, including the lowest ever for African Americans.
So, there is a story to tell. She's going to continue to tell it. But the idea that she's not being specific is just wrong.
He however, when asked a simple question, What's your plan for health care? We know you want to take away Obamacare, but what do you want to do? He couldn't mention one simple thing.
So, I think the stark truth is he's the one that's not putting details out there. Except, for instance, Project 2025, which is one of the scariest documents, prepared by his former team members that details, in a terrifying way, so terrifying that he realizes it doesn't sell with the American people. So, he's now trying to run away--
COLLINS: Yes.
BOOKER: --and distance himself from it.
COLLINS: And he has distanced himself. We had the former Director on, who said Trump didn't have anything to do with it, though he's been to Mar-a-Lago himself.
But on immigration, she was asked, would you have done anything differently than how President Biden acted on this, not imposing a pretty severe executive order until six months before the election. She didn't answer that question. Though, she later said, I'm not Joe Biden.
Is that somewhere where you feel like she could stake out some different ground, for those middle-of-the-road voters, who are watching and not sure who they're going to pick?
BOOKER: Yes. Again, I think she has a middle-of-the-road approach, and something that, again, as a United States Senator, that I got to participate and watch whole scale right before me.
Well, at the end of the day, we tried to pass an immigration bill. You had a conservative Lankford, come together, with a blue state Democrat Murphy, come together and put together a bill. It did not sell on the parts of both sides of the aisle. There are parts of it that I really don't like.
COLLINS: Yes.
BOOKER: But the truth of matter is that bill was there, ready to go. She endorsed it. She supported it. It would have done a lot of things that Donald Trump said he wanted, but he came out, in rank political opportunism, and tanked the plan that would have supported border patrols, would have helped build more barriers down there.
And so, this is the hypocrisy that I think she is getting more and more of a chance to expose, as she, who is a serious leader, talking about bringing people together, reaching bipartisan compromises, doing the pragmatic things.
And let's not forget, and I wish -- again, I probably didn't know who Viktor Orban was, or wouldn't have known before I came to the United States Senate, even as a mayor.
But the reality of what she said about foreign policy, the fact that his former defense secretaries, the fact that his former chief of staff, the fact that his intelligence director, are all saying he's a danger to this country? The fact that the only leader he could come up with that respects him is somebody that is an autocrat, that has seen democratic backsliding?
What Kamala Harris showed last night is that she's ready to lead this nation, with strength and with statesmanship.
Donald Trump, again, showed was kind of a frightening picture, of a man that was more like Alex Jones, that demeans and degrades people, that creates conspiracy theories--
COLLINS: Yes.
BOOKER: --and it reminded us of the chaos that he brought to the White House, when he was there.
COLLINS: Senator Cory Booker, thank you for your time tonight.
BOOKER: Thank you for having me. COLLINS: Up next. There is fallout coming from one of those Alex Jones-level conspiracies that was being pushed, last night, about Haitian migrants, abducting household pets. More after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: More than 67 million viewers were watching, last night, as Donald Trump spread a false claim that Haitian migrants, in Springfield, Ohio, are abducting people's pets and eating them. City officials have said there is no evidence of that.
And when we pressed his running mate, J.D. Vance, on any of the evidence, he acknowledged himself could be false, here's how he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If we have to meme about it to get the media to care, we're going to keep on doing it because the media could -- should care about what's going on.
COLLINS: Senator, you talked about that your office has gotten a lot of reports. I mean, if someone calls your office and says they saw Bigfoot, that doesn't mean they saw Bigfoot. Why -- I mean, you have a sense of responsibility, as a running mate, and he certainly does, as the candidate, to not promote false information, right?
VANCE: But Kaitlan, it's a totally fair point. But nobody is calling my office and saying that they saw Bigfoot. What they're calling and saying is we are seeing migrants kidnap our dogs and cats, and city officials aren't doing anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As we noted, no evidence that this is actually even happening.
But this moment, in a bigger picture, does harken back to one that we've seen before, on the campaign trail, like when Donald Trump said this, when he was in Minnesota, in 2016, about Somali refugees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Here in Minnesota, you've seen firsthand the problems caused, with faulty refugee vetting, with large numbers of Somali refugees coming into your state, without your knowledge, without your support or approval.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next source knows firsthand what follows political rhetoric like that. The Democrat from Minnesota, Representative Ilhan Omar, whom Trump once labeled a disgrace and predicted would help propel him to victory in 2020. That obviously did not happen. But on this issue overall, it's obviously a much more complicated and nuanced picture than what the Trump-Vance campaign are painting about what's happening in Springfield.
But when you hear a false claim like that amplified, to nearly 70 million people, do you worry about what it means, for the Haitian refugees, who are living in places like that?
[21:35:00]
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Well, first, I want to say, just the insanity of having a senator, a candidate for vice president, and a former President, and now a candidate for president, really talking about meming into reality, a racist conspiracy, dangerous story like this. What it means is that there are so many people now, who are looking for stories, to make this true.
And it gins up this dangerous reaction, by folks, who are unstable, in which then they go and try to protect these animals that they think that are being attacked by Haitian immigrants, and cause harm to people, who are already vulnerable, who came to this country seeking stability and safety, and coming from situations that were already fragile (ph).
And I think, when we think about the bigger picture, is thinking about what kind of country do we want to be, right? Is this the kind of rhetoric and messaging that we want the world to see, about who our leaders are, and those that could potentially be elected into the highest leadership, in our office, and in our country.
And I think what Harris did so well, last night, was remind the American people that this manic, dangerous liar cannot be reelected as President of the United States, and how crucial it is for us not to go back to the dark and dangerous days of the Trump presidency.
COLLINS: I imagine, you weren't surprised by that last night.
And just as we look at this overall. Trump, last night, was talking about Harris, and calling her this very liberal nominee, talking about how radical she is. He called her a Marxist, I believe, last night, on stage. He's certainly called her that before.
She's actually moved to the center on a lot of her policy positions that she held, when she was running against Senator Cory Booker, in the Dem primary, and others, in 2019.
What did you make of that? I mean, would you classify her as that? How would you describe her politics as they stand now?
OMAR: Well, I did love the fact that she wasn't him, right? She didn't take the bait, and that she stood her ground, and she explained where she was on policy, in 2020, where she has evolved in her policies, what that means for the American people.
The one thing that I think I've always really appreciated about Vice President Harris, and our vice presidential candidate, my governor, Tim Walz, is that they've always been the kind of public servants that listen to the people, to the constituents that they serve, and those that they seek to serve, and implement policies that are coming from those people.
And I think that is the kind of leadership that the American people are looking for. People who are willing to listen to the issues that are important, not just to voters, but to every constituency in the country, and make decisions that are going to make their lives better.
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because there's really important constituencies, in places, like your home state, and Michigan and others.
There wasn't a lot of time spent on, on the Israel-Hamas war that is underway, last night, between the two candidates. But when they did talk about it, despite Trump saying that Israel would cease to exist if Harris was elected, they largely agree on the policy of that, of supporting Israel and backing it.
On a ceasefire-hostage deal, she said that she would work around the clock. But she didn't offer any specifics on what that would look like. Was that enough of a plan in your view?
OMAR: Yes, I mean, I think there is a -- I believe, there is a great appreciation in the empathy and compassion that she offers.
But I do believe that voters, both in my district, and in Minnesota, and across the country that care, want to actually see either an implementation of a ceasefire or an actual, concrete answer, to how we get a ceasefire, and why we have not been able to utilize the leverage that we have, in order for that ceasefire to be implemented.
COLLINS: And of course, I assume by that, in part, you mean sending arms and weapons to Israel, which is something, you know, we keep hearing--
OMAR: Yes, there are tangible actions that could be taken, right? We are supplying the weapons that are causing the catastrophe. And so, to say you're working around the clock, and not take any actionable steps that the voters and the American people can see, makes that rhetoric really hard to swallow.
COLLINS: And is that -- you know, that was her rhetoric, last night.
OMAR: Yes.
COLLINS: And so, when you hear about the implementation of a ceasefire deal. We hear all the time from the administration, take it or leave it is on the table, take it or leave it is on the table.
[21:40:00]
I talked to the Israeli ambassador to the U.N., last week. He said the idea of a ceasefire being close is just not realistic at this moment.
OMAR: Yes. And I think -- and I think that is where it does feel disingenuous, right?
Because we hear our Secretary of State, Blinken, who has now traveled to Israel, I believe, 11 times, who makes these statements, as he's departing the country for Egypt, and says, we are very close, a deal has been reached. Bibi Netanyahu is there.
And then, we see the humiliation that follows, as Bibi takes the stage, right after he departs, and says, There is no such thing.
And I think, for a country that is not only considered as a leader in the world, but a country that is directly in support, in supplying these weapons to Israel, to not -- not do that after the first time that they backtracked on what they promised us, not do that on the second time, not do that on the third time. Now, 11 months in. I think it is starting to sound like this is not a serious thing that our Secretary is working on.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, thank you for joining us, here on THE SOURCE.
OMAR: Yes, appreciate you. Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We are hearing from some of Trump's Republican supporters, on the Hill, who are not praising his performance, last night. We're going to get reaction, from someone, who is rumored to be on the potential Trump cabinet list, right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We are getting live reaction, from Capitol Hill, tonight, where some Republicans are panning their nominee's performance.
Senator Thom Tillis said that he thought Trump took the bait from Vice President Harris, last night. As others, like Senator Lisa Murkowski said it was not, quote, his best evening. Senator Roger Marshall argued America is the real loser after what we all watched, last night. Small (ph) members of Trump's own party, including, like these lawmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Most people didn't know her terribly well, other than a few clips that were not flattering that you might see on the internet. And people saw, Oh, actually, she's an intelligent, capable person, who has a point of view on issues, and she demonstrated that time and again.
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, he is accusing them of eating pets. Should he be doing that?
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Well, I don't know what's happened in Springfield. I can just tell you, my experience with Haitians in Florida has been very positive.
RAJU: Were you comfortable with him continuing to say the election was stolen in 2020?
SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): I don't think you should say stuff that maybe make it harder for people to vote for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My Republican source, tonight, is one of the names potentially being discussed, as a possible member of Trump's cabinet.
Senator Bill Hagerty of Tennessee. Great to have you here.
SEN. BILL HAGERTY (R-TN): Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Senator, you just heard from some Republicans, critical of Trump's performance. What was your assessment?
HAGERTY: I watched the debate very carefully, last night, as I did the debate, back in June with Joe Biden.
I think President Trump actually won the debate, because I think the American people didn't get a chance to hear at all how Kamala Harris can explain the pivoting of every single position that she's taken. That's what we were there to hear.
And I think the basic question, the fundamental question, is the question that President Trump put to the audience, at the end. Is America better off under the Biden-Harris administration? Are they better off under his administration? I think the answer is clear.
We didn't get at that. Kamala Harris never explained to us how Americans would be better off. And in fact, almost two-thirds of Americans say that the country is headed in the wrong direction. I don't think we heard anything, last night, that would make us think that anything different is going to come out (ph).
COLLINS: Are you one of the Republicans, who wishes that he had articulated that at the beginning of the debate, instead at the end? Obviously, at the beginning, it's the height of people watching. That is an argument that other Republicans believe is more effective.
HAGERTY: It's an outstanding argument.
But at the very beginning, Kamala Harris promised to unpack, and explain all of the policy positions that she's changed on. And then, she proceeded to explain none of them.
President Trump was assaulted with all kinds of lies and misinformation. And he's trying to deal with that at the same time get his points across.
And I think he did a good job, of turning back and trying to let the American people see that policies under his administration made their lives better off. If you think about it, the economy was growing at almost twice the rate of any of the major economy in the world, after he took office.
You think about what's happening right now. Our economy is in a very bad place. Americans are hurting.
Under President Trump, every American was doing better. Their real wages went up, blue-collar workers more than white-collar workers.
Today, workers are hurting. Real wages are down.
COLLINS: Harris does have her fair share of policy reversals. But isn't it Trump's job to bring that up, to push her on that, while he's on the debate stage with her?
HAGERTY: Well, he certainly attempted to do that last night. But he was doing that in the face of moderators that were fact-checking him, right, left and center, and never fact-checking her.
COLLINS: Do you -- one of the fact-checks, though, had to be about the Haitian immigrants. Do you believe that he should not have waded into that, given officials in that city say there's no evidence of it?
HAGERTY: Well, you talk about evidence. I've heard conflicting reports. There's conflicting evidence. There's a lot of information on the internet that this is happening.
But here's the real problem.
COLLINS: Yes, but no real credible evidence, from the people who are living (ph) in the city.
HAGERTY: Here's the credible evidence. In Springfield, Ohio, the governor is sending in state troopers, and millions of dollars, to deal with a problem that's happening across America.
I mean, the question is, have you been into an emergency room lately? Have you tried to find a teacher that can teach English as a second language in a school? We have these problems, in my home state of Tennessee, thanks to this flow of over 10 million illegal migrants that have flooded this country, under border czar Kamala Harris' watch.
COLLINS: And it's a fair point in the sense of -- we've heard from city officials, who say school systems are being overwhelmed, hospitals are being overwhelmed.
We have not heard from one city official, who said that Haitian immigrants are abducting pets or doing that. And I was thinking--
HAGERTY: The city officials aren't the only source. There are plenty of people who are saying this is happening. So, I think it just needs to be verified. But the real point here--
COLLINS: Well we talked to--
HAGERTY: --is that, that immigrants--
COLLINS: We've talked to multiple people there. The police commissioner, people there have said that there's just no evidence of it. But I do-- [21:50:00]
HAGERTY: Immigrants have collapsed that city. Why is the governor sending state troopers in and millions of dollars in, right now?
COLLINS: What he's complaining that the federal government -- Congress is not doing more to help them in this need, in sending in that money.
But I do want to ask you about something, because--
HAGERTY: Well I'll just take one extra point on that.
COLLINS: Go ahead.
HAGERTY: Because the answer isn't the Congress right here. The answer is the Executive branch.
The Biden administration came in, and Kamala Harris, as border czar, in the first 100 days, issued 94 executive orders, tearing down the most secure border that we had, under President Trump. That in fact, brought this flow of illegal migrants that is causing the problem in Springfield, Ohio, and in my home state as well.
COLLINS: Right. I think immigration is a fair point. But I think a false claim is what people have an issue with.
But I do want to ask you about something. Because when Trump got off his plane, in Philadelphia, last night, I was watching who was getting off with him. And Laura Loomer was one of the people. I don't know if you know who she is.
HAGERTY: I don't.
COLLINS: She's a far-right activist, on Twitter. She's a self- described Islamophobe. She's said a lot of horrible things.
And today, she was with Donald Trump, at the 9/11 Memorial, in New York City. She is someone who has claimed 9/11 was an inside job, which obviously was not.
But is that someone that you want the Republican candidate surrounding himself with?
HAGERTY: Look, I don't know who the person is that you're talking about. But I would say that 9/11 was a travesty.
It's amazing to me that we aren't spending more time focusing on the, quote, root cause of what's happening, with terrorism around the world. I mean, we've got a terrible situation going, in the Middle East, right now. It's because of Iran. And we have an administration, Vice President Harris wouldn't even mention Iran, last night. But Iran is the root cause of all the instability in the Middle East.
President Trump dealt with that. He put maximum pressure on Iran, and that enabled him to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, to implement the Abraham Accords. What we saw was peace breaking out in the Middle East.
Now that Biden comes in, and Harris comes in, Iran is now flooded with cash, and they're causing terrorism throughout the Middle East.
COLLINS: But my question is, does someone who has spread 9/11 conspiracies, and claimed that Islam is a cancer, and celebrated the deaths of migrants, does she belong at the 9/11 Memorial, or on the plane with Donald Trump?
HAGERTY: Yes, we have freedom of speech in America. And again, I don't know this person's positions.
But I will tell you. We need to get at the root cause of terrorism. And Iran is the biggest sponsor of terror in the world. Harris and Biden have allowed them to have funds like they never had before, hundreds of billions of dollars.
In the Trump administration, where I served, we shut off the funding to Iran. And guess what happened? We saw peace and stability breakout in the Middle East. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, were broke. We weren't seeing what we see right now.
The Biden administration comes in, fails to enforce sanctions, and this is exactly what happens. Go back to Afghanistan. The instability that we're seeing in Ukraine is a direct cause--
COLLINS: Yes, well--
HAGERTY: --of that terrible decision made by Harris and Biden.
COLLINS: But the Biden administration didn't change the sanction -- a lot of those sanctions that Trump put in place after he left the nuclear deal.
HAGERTY: They just don't--
COLLINS: But--
HAGERTY: They just don't enforce them. That's the difference.
COLLINS: We've got to leave it there.
Senator Bill Hagerty, thank you for your time, tonight.
HAGERTY: Kaitlan, thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. There's a notable development after that endorsement that came moments after the debate ended, last night, from Taylor Swift. We'll tell you what impact it's having.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: New tonight. More than 300,000 people have visited a key voter registration site, less than 24 hours after Taylor Swift herself linked to it, as she endorsed Vice President Harris.
The Harris campaign has been trying to cash in on merch, inspired by the megastar's endorsement. They had these Harris-Walz friendship bracelets, which, if you've been to a Taylor Swift concert, you know they're the ones the fans make and trade during the shows. They were selling for about 20 bucks, on the campaign's website, until they sold out.
My source, tonight, on this, is Karen Finney, who was a Senior Adviser for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.
And as you look at this endorsement. And the Trump campaign is kind of embracing for Taylor Swift to do this for months now.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yes.
COLLINS: And she was complaining about AI-generated images, saying she was supporting Trump, which obviously she's not -- obviously she's not.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: But it raises the bigger question of what does a celebrity endorsement mean?
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: Obviously, Hillary Clinton had a lot of them.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: She did not ultimately win the election. It didn't necessarily help with voters in Wisconsin.
But when you look at this, and you look at Taylor Swift, what's your assessment of what the impact could be?
FINNEY: So, I think there's two things. Number one, it can draw attention for people, who maybe aren't paying attention to an election, right? They see, Oh, Beyonce, or Jay-Z did this, or Taylor Swift said that. So maybe it gets the eyeballs on, just paying attention to the election.
But you do -- I have seen backlash, when celebrities say who to vote for. I did some research, in 2017. And there were some younger voters who said, I don't need Jay-Z telling me who to vote for.
But what they do appreciate is -- and I think Taylor Swift did it masterfully. She said, I did my research. This is the person that I think is right for me and my values. You should do your research, right? And so, she made it open to, You do what's right for you. I'm going to do what's right for me. But we both -- but let's vote. And that's the piece that consistently, in research, people are open to having celebrities help remind them how important it is to vote.
COLLINS: So, it's more in how they kind of announce their endorsement.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: And also, I was thinking, she's been on this mega tour, The Eras Tour. I've been to two of the shows, admittedly. She's still going on. But -- you know, she's been to major swing states.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: She's been to Arizona. She's been to Michigan. She's been to Pennsylvania. She's been to these major states, where obviously are going to potentially decide this election.
FINNEY: Well, absolutely, and -- but if you think about it, encouraging people to vote, and you might be in these major states? That shouldn't be a partisan thing. That should just be an American thing. It's a civic duty to go out and vote. Happens to overlap with some important states. But that shouldn't be seen as a partisan thing, actually.
COLLINS: Yes. And so, are there any drawbacks to a celebrity endorsement ever?
[22:00:00]
FINNEY: Well, obviously, sometimes for the celebrity there can be. I mean, there can be, you know, people might say, Well, I'm not going to follow you, because I don't agree with you on that policy issue.
But generally, so much of how when we are fans of people, part of it is their values, right? So, it's not surprising that she would be supporting Kamala Harris, if you've been following her, and you know the issues she cares about.
COLLINS: Yes. And she's also very outspoken.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: And connects with her fans well.
FINNEY: Exactly. Exactly.
COLLINS: Karen Finney, great to have you. Thank you so much.
FINNEY: Good to be here.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us, tonight, here on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
