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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Sean "Diddy" Combs Charged With Sex Trafficking & Racketeering; Harris, Trump Talk On Phone Call After Apparent Assassination Attempt; Senate Republicans Block IVF Protection Bill For Second Time. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired September 17, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MATTHEW REEVE, SON OF CHRISTOPHER REEVE: OK, didn't really get hurt.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes. Well it's so lovely that a whole new generations of people will be introduced to your dad, and to the remarkable life that he had, and the legacy that he left.
REEVE: That's certainly the hope.
COOPER: Yes.
REEVE: To introduce him to a whole new generation, and to reintroduce him to people who do remember him--
COOPER: Yes.
REEVE: --and did know him.
COOPER: Yes, it's great to see him again. It feels like it's an old friend.
Matthew and Alexandra, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
ALEXANDRA REEVE GIVENS, DAUGHTER OF CHRISTOPHER REEVE: Thank you.
REEVE: Thanks for having us.
COOPER: "Super/Man: The Christopher Reeve Story" is only in select theaters, on September 21st and 25th. For tickets, go to Fathom Events.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Diddy denied bail and could remain locked up until trial. As prosecutors lay out a shocking case. My exclusive interview with his attorney, live tonight.
Also, hours after blaming her for the second apparent attempt to kill him, Donald Trump was on the phone, with Vice President Harris today, as his running mate is defending amplifying lies, about migrant -- about immigrants.
And the inside story, from the person who was there, the moment the Secret Service agents dove on top of the former President. We're going to speak to Donald Trump's golf partner, live tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
In just moments, the attorney for Sean "Diddy" Combs, will join me on set, in his first interview since a pretty dramatic court appearance, this afternoon, where the megastar pleaded not guilty to federal charges of racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking and transportation of prostitution.
Diddy remains in jail, tonight, as his team is arguing for his release.
This is all coming as prosecutors are painting one of music's biggest moguls, as a monster.
All the names that Sean Combs has gone by, over the years, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, Diddy, they're now all being used as officially government aliases, replaced, for the time being, with an inmate number.
Diddy went from receiving the key to New York City, not that long ago, to being held, right now, at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, as he is facing the possibility of decades in prison.
Federal prosecutors accuse him of running, what they call, a criminal enterprise that went on for years. The evidence is laid out in a newly-unsealed federal document, accusing the three-time Grammy winner of being a violent man.
And I'm quoting from them now, saying that he "Engaged in a persistent and pervasive pattern of abuse toward women and other individuals," abuse that they say, quote, "Was, at times, verbal, emotional, physical and sexual."
Prosecutors say that Combs "Manipulated women to participate in highly orchestrated performances of sexual activity with male commercial sex workers," maintaining control of these women, they say, by, quote, "Distributing narcotics to them, controlling their careers, leveraging his financial support and threatening to cut off the same," and also "using intimidation and violence."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMIAN WILLIAMS, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Combs allegedly planned and controlled the sex performances, which he called freak offs, and he often electronically recorded them.
The freak off sometimes lasted days at a time, involved multiple commercial sex workers, and often involved a variety of narcotics, such as ketamine, ecstasy and GHB, which Combs distributed to the victims to keep them obedient and compliant. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Diddy is denying the allegations, and pleaded not guilty in court, this afternoon.
Prosecutors are arguing that they can back up the charges with dozens of witnesses, and a mountain of evidence.
My lead source tonight is Marc Agnifilo, attorney for Sean "Diddy" Combs, who was there with him in court today.
And it's great to have you.
Because the bail part was what you were arguing for, that he should be released. The judge disagreed with you today. You're appealing that actually tomorrow.
How likely is it, do you think you'll win on that appeal, given the judge today said there were no conditions, as she saw it that could ensure that he would show up for court?
MARC AGNIFILO, ATTORNEY FOR SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS: So, thank you, Kaitlan.
So, I think we have a good shot tomorrow. Tomorrow, we argue in front of the district court judge, whose case this is. Today, we argued in front of a magistrate judge, whose case this is not. We'll never have this magistrate as our judge again.
But tomorrow, we argue in front of Judge Carter, and it's Judge Carter's case till the end. So, hope springs eternal and -- but I think we have strong arguments, and I think we have a good chance.
COLLINS: Well, and what prosecutors were arguing is, not only does your client pose a flight risk, because obviously he's incredibly wealthy, has access to planes, and a lot of staff, even though you said he turned over his passport two months ago. They were also worried about him being able to interfere with witnesses, and calling them.
And so, I guess, the question is, how do you assure the court that that won't happen, if prosecutors are saying this is someone, who's attempted to bribe security staff, and has already threatened and interfered with witnesses?
[21:05:00]
AGNIFILO: So, I think that the most important thing, even more important than the passport, is that Mr. Combs came to New York, on September 5th, soon as we realized that this indictment was going to be coming down, in a matter of weeks, maybe months, but sometime soon.
Mr. Combs got on a plane, left his home in Florida, flew to New York. I called the prosecutors myself. I said, Mr. Combs is in New York. Do you want to know where he is? If you want to know where he is, I'll tell you where he is. But he wants to surrender. He's here to surrender.
They didn't want him to surrender, because if he surrenders, they don't get to tell (ph) the judge that he's a flight risk and he's a danger. Because who as a danger and a flight risk would fly to New York and surrender? So, they didn't want him to surrender.
COLLINS: So, since September 5th, you had known, you expected it was likely he was going to formally face charges?
AGNIFILO: So, I really knew he was formally going to face charges, on March 25th, the day of the searches. When Homeland Security searched his Los Angeles home, his Miami home, and his airplane, I knew that day, by looking at the search warrants. I mean, this is, I've been doing this for a while. This is not my first or 100th rodeo. That this was going to come as a matter of time.
What I realized in early September is that it was coming soon. And so, it was time for Mr. Combs to come to New York, which he did.
And let me just point out one very important thing. The prosecutors are seizing on something that happened eight years ago. This video that we've all seen? And it's a -- it's a bad video for Mr. Combs, and he said so himself, when he gave his apology.
This is eight years ago. And the prosecutors are talking about him bribing a hotel security worker. There was no criminal investigation. This was just a matter of personal embarrassment because he and the person in the video, were in the midst of a 10-year relationship that was difficult at times, that was toxic at times, but it was mutually so.
And this whole notion that Mr. Combs is forcing drugs on someone is just nonsensical, and it's going to prove to not be true.
COLLINS: Well, on that video, he initially denied the allegations, when his then-girlfriend, who is in that video, filed a lawsuit, last fall. And we have that video. I should note. CNN was the first channel to exclusively report on it.
He denied that that happened, when she filed it in a complaint. And then, when the video came out is when he apologized for it.
AGNIFILO: So, I wasn't his lawyer back then. So I don't -- and I don't think he denied. I mean, I think the lawyers were the ones mostly making the denials.
I think they were denying sex crimes. I mean, because at the end of the day, the gravamen of that civil complaint wasn't a misdemeanor assault, which is what you see on that video. Not minimizing it, but it's a misdemeanor assault. What the gravamen of the complaint was, was sex crimes, and he denied that, and he still does.
COLLINS: Well, and you're saying that this is all just about that one relationship. But when you read through the indictment, they say that there's not just one victim. They say there's multiple victims here today. And what I heard described was they said they have 50 witnesses or victims.
AGNIFILO: Yes, I think it's 49 witnesses and one victim. I think if you broke it down. And I say that because count two, which is the sex trafficking count, has victim number one, and there is no victim number two anywhere in the indictment.
COLLINS: So, you're saying that there are not other women.
Because what they were essentially arguing here is that he coerced and forced women into sex acts, by using physical force, financial pressure, emotional abuse and narcotics, for what they described as these freak off sessions, they're saying that he self-described them as that.
AGNIFILO: Yes, there's one victim in the indictment. The charging document--
COLLINS: But one victim does count, right?
AGNIFILO: No, no, no, of course. But I'm just saying it's not 50.
I mean, what they did, it's a little too cute, is it's 50 witnesses are victims. Well, it's one victim. That's all that's in the indictment.
COLLINS: Our reporter, who was in the courtroom today, said that he appeared to have a stunned expression on his face. Was he surprised that he was arrested, last night?
AGNIFILO: No, he definitely was not. I mean, I told him myself, in early September, You are going to be arrested soon, and you're going to be charged with racketeering, and you're going to be charged with sex trafficking. So, come to New York. It wasn't a long conversation. He agreed. So, we knew this was coming. And in fact, we offered that he would turn himself in.
COLLINS: So, if there are these witnesses and victims, and as you're saying, that you believe it's one victim and 49 witnesses, who saw this behavior, that's pretty powerful, though, to have that many people who have, if they go to court, and argue that they -- that they witnessed this behavior by your client.
AGNIFILO: Well no--
COLLINS: What's your defense about -- against that going to be?
AGNIFILO: So, my defense is very well-established. I interviewed myself, the different men, who were being brought sort of into Mr. Combs, and this person's intimate situation.
I've flown around the country. I've interviewed a large number of them. There's not the slightest inkling, according to the interviews that I've done, of anything that's coercive, non-consensual. Nobody was too drunk. Nobody was too high.
[21:10:00] These were adults in a relationship. This is a 10-year relationship. We can't forget that. This is a 10-year relationship. And it was adults and consensual. And everybody who was there wanted to be there. So, I feel very confident in our position.
COLLINS: You said you interviewed the men. But what about the women?
AGNIFILO: I haven't interviewed the woman. The woman's not available to me. She's presumably a grand jury witness, and we would not -- we cannot try to interview a grand jury witness.
COLLINS: And you don't think that there are any other women, who are going to say that they were coerced into this, given drugs, and essentially, as prosecutors were saying that, that's what kept them compliant, in these sessions.
AGNIFILO: So, there are a lot of women, in these civil cases. There's been a -- there's been a mountain of civil cases, ever since the civil case that was filed in November. I don't see them as victims in the indictment. That's my point.
COLLINS: And so, when you talk about that, that video of Cassie Ventura. That was his then-girlfriend. In the video, I mean, just when you saw that -- you said it's a bad video. It's pretty difficult to watch.
AGNIFILO: It is. No question. So let me -- but let me tell you what happened.
COLLINS: Will that be used as evidence in court, do you think?
AGNIFILO: A 100 percent. 100 percent.
So, what I said in court today, and I'll say it again here, is, the two of them were in a hotel. It was just the two of them, in a hotel room. She found out that he was seeing someone else.
She was going through his phone. She hit him in the head with his -- with his own phone, and then she walks into the -- into the hallway with two bags. One of the bags has all of his clothing she's taking (ph) from him, which is why he runs out in a towel.
So, this isn't her fleeing from one of these freak offs. Why would she take his clothing? That's not what it is. And when the evidence comes out, this is going to be completely different than the government's portrayed it.
COLLINS: But on this video, and I just want to show that again now, how do you defend against allegations that he hit, kicked and dragged women, when he's on video, hitting, kicking and dragging a woman?
AGNIFILO: Sure, it's not -- he's not charged with hitting, kicking and dragging women. He's charged with sex trafficking. And he didn't traffic anybody.
COLLINS: But he's charged with a conspiracy here, where he was using physical abuse, emotional abuse, financial pressure, as prosecutors allege, to keep these women in his fold. Maybe just Cassie Ventura. But keeping these women in the fold.
AGNIFILO: Cassie Ventura lived by herself. She had her own house. She had a family. She had a career. And he was seeing another woman at the time. He wasn't around a lot. She could have done whatever she wanted to do.
All of these allegations of, Oh, I was forced, I was coerced, I had to stay, are nonsense, and it's going to be proven to be so.
COLLINS: That video, in the indictment, it alleges that your client paid hotel staff, $50,000, to make it disappear from the hotel surveillance system. Did he pay off the hotel staff?
AGNIFILO: Not that I know of. I know that's an allegation. I don't know that that is true.
What I was concerned about, when I heard about this allegation, is whether there was an allegation that there was some sort of law enforcement investigation pending, because then that would be a crime. But there was none. And so, this is not a crime.
COLLINS: You talked about -- you said you're portraying this as adults, who were at these events that wanted to be. I shouldn't even call them events. That's not certainly how it's -- anyone else would label it. But that they wanted to be there.
But they also allege that they were recorded and essentially used as blackmail. Is that not true?
AGNIFILO: That's not true. That's not true.
COLLINS: How can you prove that when they have--
AGNIFILO: It--
COLLINS: --electronic evidence, as they argue? Over 90 cell phones, laptops, iCloud storage accounts, 30 electronic and storage devices, hard drives, thumb drives.
AGNIFILO: Yes.
COLLINS: You're not worried about that?
AGNIFILO: No. Because if they had it, they would have put it in the indictment. And it's not in the indictment.
COLLINS: When it comes to your client's credibility, I think people will look at what he said, last fall. And it's not just his attorneys. I mean, he pays those attorneys. They're speaking on his behalf. They're the ones calling her claims, baseless and ridiculous.
And when you read the indictment today, they line up with what she alleged in that lawsuit, last fall. AGNIFILO: If the claim is that he had unwanted sex with her? That claim is baseless, and it will be proven to be baseless when we have a trial.
COLLINS: But the claim is obviously the conspiracy, the racketeering. It's much larger than just that, obviously, as you know.
AGNIFILO: It is. But the government wants it to be. But count two, which is the sex trafficking count, relates to one person and one person alone. All of this talk of dozens of victims, and 50 witnesses, if they had that, and if they really had it, it would be in the indictment. It's not in the indictment.
COLLINS: So then, why was he reaching out to so many of these people, after it was clear this investigation was picking up steam?
AGNIFILO: So, he -- well, first of all, I don't think it's clear that he was reaching out after--
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: Well, they said in the memo, that he reached out to one person, I believe, 48 times in three days.
AGNIFILO: So, I think I know who you're talking about. There was a civil complainant, who plays no role in the criminal case, whatsoever, who brought a civil case against Mr. Combs.
And she was in a band. And another one of the band members says, I was in the same band she was, and none of the things that she's complaining about in her complaint, I saw none of those things.
And so, she came forward and made a statement. She's not a witness. She's not a government witness. She--
COLLINS: But after 48 pieces of outreach, whether calls or texts from your client.
AGNIFILO: I don't know that it's 48. I -- and there -- there's someone who had -- they had a business relationship. So, it makes sense that Combs would speak to her.
There's no -- there's no --there's no allegation that this person was saying something false, or this person was somehow coerced into saying these things. And if you read the statement, the statement's actually quite soft and respectful. It's, I respect that this person has this perspective. I was in the band at the same time. I never saw such things.
COLLINS: Is there any chance Sean Combs takes a plea deal?
AGNIFILO: I don't see it happening. I do not see it happening. He's innocent. I believe he's innocent. I believe he's innocent of the charges. And he is going to go to trial, and I believe he's going to win.
COLLINS: Marc Agnifilo, thank you for joining us tonight.
AGNIFILO: Thank you.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time.
We're going to take a break and switch gears. Also, talk about presidential politics still ahead, and the latest, including this comment tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS (R-AR): My kids keep me humble.
(LAUGHTER)
HUCKABEE SANDERS: Unfortunately, Kamala Harris doesn't have anything keeping her humble.
(BOOING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was Sarah Huckabee Sanders, at a town hall, with Donald Trump, earlier this evening. More on that next.
Also, the golf partner, who was there, the moment Secret Service jumped on top of Donald Trump. We'll speak to him in a moment.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just moments ago, we heard from Diddy's attorney, who was defending him, after he pled not guilty earlier today, here on THE SOURCE, disputing what that indictment that was unsealed about 09:30 this -- 09:30, this morning, and alleged in that what Diddy had, what he referred to as freak offs, where prosecutors say he drugged and coerced victims into extended sex acts with male sex workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AGNIFILO: I've flown around the country. I've interviewed a large number of them. There's not the slightest inkling, according to the interviews that I've done, of anything that's coercive, non- consensual. Nobody was too drunk. Nobody was too high.
These were adults in a relationship. This is a 10-year relationship. We can't forget that. This is a 10-year relationship. And it was adults and consensual. And everybody who was there wanted to be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig, was a prosecutor for the Southern District of New York. He joins me now.
Just tell me, Elie. You were here in the studio, listening. ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes.
COLLINS: What stood out to you from what Marc had to say?
HONIG: Well, Kaitlan, I think you just got a really telling sneak preview of how Marc Agnifilo is going to defend Sean Combs, in this case. What he's going to try to do, and I think it's a smart strategy, is divide and conquer.
And what you heard Marc saying just now is, Well, if you look at each of these acts in isolation, he said, It's a misdemeanor assault. It's a state crime. It's too old. This isn't a federal crime. And defense lawyers often try to do that, because they want to try to knock down piece by piece.
The problem that the defense is going to have here is the RICO charge, count one of this indictment, which I used to charge all the time, use all the time as a prosecutor. It allows prosecutors to show the jury the entirety of the evidence.
Even if some of it is not a federal crime, even if some of it is a misdemeanor, even if some of it is a state crime or too old, you are allowed to put that all together and give it to the jury and say, If you find this was an ongoing enterprise that committed more than one crime, then he's guilty.
So, this is a common struggle. It's clear that Sean Combs' team is going to try to divide and conquer prosecutors, and say, Look at the whole picture.
COLLINS: And the enterprise, they're alleging, is his company, all the people who worked for him.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: They talked about the people who would go and stock these rooms, where they had these parties. And then, they seized a lot of that as part of this, the baby oil.
The other thing he said that stood out was in the indictment, it says it talks about 50 witnesses -- 50 victims and witnesses, many of whom saw or experienced his abuse. He said he thinks it's 49 witnesses and one victim. The victim, of course, would be Cassie Ventura, his then- girlfriend.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: Is that what prosecutors -- can they do that?
HONIG: I have real doubts that that's the case. If it is one victim, and 49 witnesses, you will get excoriated by the judge, as a prosecutor, because that's dicey, to describe it as--
COLLINS: Because it's misleading.
HONIG: It's misleading.
The other thing is the indictment -- and Agnifilo was looking at count two. He said there's only one indictment, and he said, That's Cassie.
But if you look at count one, again, the racketeering indictment, it lists, it says in the plural, multiple victims. And today, when the U.S. attorney was asked, How many victims do you have? He was cagey, but he said multiple.
So it's not going to be just one victim. Obviously, Cassie is going to be a very important victim. But it's clear to me, there are others.
COLLINS: Well, and one of the most damaging pieces of evidence that we knew about before this even happened was the video--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --that Elizabeth Wagmeister broke here on CNN.
That disturbing video of in the hallway, which he himself acknowledged is a bad video. Though, he was trying to kind of argue that what happened before here was different. Though, I don't think anything can excuse that behavior. He did say he thinks it will be used in court.
HONIG: Yes.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Do you think that it makes a difference, what he's arguing happened beforehand, to how a jury could see that potentially?
HONIG: That video is going to be a big problem. I think Marc is experienced enough to know that. It was interesting, he said 100 percent, he said to you, that's going to be used at trial. I thought he might say, I'm going to try to keep that out. But he seems ready to take it on.
The problem is, even if the characterization we just heard is correct, even if it was a fight just between a couple, having a spat? It's still A, shows that visceral act of violence. I mean, think of the impact that's going to have on the jury.
And the other thing, as you pointed out, is he denied it, until the video came out. And that's going to hurt. Even if he doesn't testify, that's going to hurt his credibility. That's going to make the jury think that he understood something was really wrong with this.
So, that video, interesting to hear him say he thinks it's going to come in. And that's going to be a problem for the defense, for sure.
COLLINS: Yes, though he thinks ultimately that his client, he said, will be proven as innocent.
HONIG: It's his job, yes.
COLLINS: Obviously, we'll see what happens. HONIG: Yes. Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Elie Honig, thank you for listening to that, and breaking it down for us.
HONIG: For sure.
COLLINS: Obviously, we'll continue to follow that and that bail hearing that is set to happen, tomorrow afternoon.
Up next for us here, though, former President Trump is back on the campaign trail. This is the first time we are seeing him out in public, since that second apparent assassination attempt, on Saturday.
He had a rare phone call, with Vice President Harris. We'll listen to Trump himself describe it in a moment.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, former President Donald Trump, at his first campaign event, in public, since that second apparent assassination attempt on his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And then you wonder why I get shot at, right? You know, only consequential presidents get shot at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
TRUMP: When I say something like that, you have countries saying, This guy. But what can you do? You have to do -- you have to do what you have to do, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: While he was there, Trump also spoke about something that doesn't really happen that often. A phone call between former President Donald Trump and Vice President Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Today, a little while ago, I got a very nice call from Kamala.
(BOOING)
TRUMP: No, it was very nice. It was very nice. It's -- it's -- that was very, very nice, and we appreciate that.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I checked on to see if he was OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. HARRIS: And, I told him what I have said publicly, there's no place for political violence in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My sources, tonight, are a team of political insiders.
Former senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Karen Finney.
And also, the Republican strategist and pollster, Kristen Soltis Anderson.
So, it's great to have you both here.
Kristen, just to you first. As listening to Trump talk about his call with Harris today, the crowd was booing, and he said no, as he was describing it as very nice.
I was just thinking back to him, yesterday, and the language he was using, saying that he does believe Democrats and Harris are to blame, for what happened to him, on Sunday. Obviously a marked difference than how they talked about this, after what happened in Butler, in July.
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER: Well, look, Donald Trump has been very clear that he thinks people are after him, that he has long said that the world wants to keep him from being president. And so, this is part of that consistent message.
And while, I think, right now, at least in terms of the first assassination attempt, there's really not a lot of evidence, of any kind of clear political leaning. And the second shooter, or attempted shooter, still seems to have very unclear motives.
I do think that at a certain point, Donald Trump's allowed to be mad that people are trying to shoot at him. And I understand that it's probably not wise to blame your opponent for it. I don't think that's smart.
But I do think that in the aftermath of being shot at once, and almost shot at a second time, this sort of notion of, well, is Donald Trump somehow in the wrong or causing this, just does not rub me the right way.
COLLINS: Karen Finney, I mean, what's your take on all of this?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: I'm so sorry. I couldn't hear the audio.
COLLINS: Just what -- I just -- you couldn't hear the audio of Trump. It was Trump and Harris describing what happened, earlier today, talking about this call.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: Obviously, Harris saying that she wanted to just check on Trump, to make sure he's OK. She said she repeated her language--
FINNEY: Right.
COLLINS: --about political violence, never being OK.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: Trump describing it as this nice call. But obviously, how that comes--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --after how he was talking about it yesterday?
FINNEY: Yes, it struck me.
I mean, look, I will give him a little bit of grace that he was probably in shock, yesterday. It's just -- it was disappointing, obviously, to hear that kind of language, because, again, we don't know the motivations of either of these gentlemen. And you never know, unfortunately.
And this is one of the reasons we all need to be responsible, with our platforms, when we talk that you don't know how people are going to take things that you say. So, we don't know what might have triggered these individuals. And I apologize for using that word.
But it struck me that the intention of this event, tonight, particularly with Sarah Huckabee Sanders, as the person who is quote- unquote, interviewing him, is potentially to appeal to women, suburban women, in particular, where he continues to struggle with those voters. So perhaps he was trying to be a kinder, gentler Donald Trump, as a way to create this event that seems to have been targeted to women.
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because there was something that Governor Sarah Sanders, who obviously was Donald Trump's Press Secretary, said about Vice President Harris, at the town hall, tonight.
Kristen, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUCKABEE SANDERS: You can walk into a room like this, where people cheer, when you step onto the stage, and you might think for a second that you're kind of special.
(LAUGHTER)
HUCKABEE SANDERS: Then you go home and your kids remind you very quickly you're actually not that big of a deal.
(LAUGHTER)
HUCKABEE SANDERS: So, my kids keep me humble.
(LAUGHTER)
HUCKABEE SANDERS: Unfortunately, Kamala Harris doesn't have anything keeping her humble.
(BOOING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Kristen Soltis Anderson, we just got over childless- cat-ladies-gate, and the concerns you even heard from Republicans who said it wasn't helpful and appealing to women. Harris doesn't have any biological children, but she is a stepmother to two children.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: You're right. And that statement, as you listen to Sarah Huckabee Sanders speak, it was very like a touching statement, up until that very last part, where she kind of tried to get a dig in on the Vice President. And it seems unnecessary, to me.
I mean, I think of Sarah Huckabee Sanders, as somebody, who's a potentially really great messenger to women, to young moms, across the country. I thought that the remarks she made at the Republican convention were some of the best, in terms of showing a different side of Donald Trump.
And so, to the extent that that was the job, tonight, it's unfortunate that it's undercut by that need to, kind of, like, try to twist the knife in a little bit to Vice President Harris.
COLLINS: Karen, what did you make of that comment?
FINNEY: I agree. And I think, you know, and I also just think it's unwise to continue to attack those of us, who don't have children.
I mean, there are plenty of young women, in this country, who don't have children, who may yet one day have children, who will vote in this election. There are plenty of us, who are beyond our childbearing years, who will vote in this election, who don't have children. But that doesn't mean we don't have people, and circumstances, and things in our lives that keep us humble.
And certainly, as a stepmother, I am sure that Kamala Harris has experienced, a teenager rolling their eyes at her, for one thing or another. So, it just seems it was unnecessary. I agree with Kristen, it was unnecessary.
But also, it just seems like a very dumb strategy, because there's so many women that you turn off with that. And really, the message is, You don't get to be part of our America. You don't get to be part of the country that we see, that we envision. And then it leaves you to say, Well, OK, then I'm going to take a look at Kamala Harris. COLLINS: Yes, there's lots of non-traditional families out there.
Karen Finney. Kristen Soltis Anderson. Great to have you both, tonight.
Up next. We're going to talk about what's happening on Capitol Hill. Obviously, you've heard from Donald Trump, on the campaign trail, talking about protecting IVF. Republicans in the Senate had that chance today, but voted against a bill, the Democrats would say just -- would do just that.
My source tonight is a powerhouse Republican senator, up next.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Senate Republicans, today, blocked a bill that would guarantee access to the very thing that a lot of them say they support. It's also the very thing that we have heard from Donald Trump, say that he supports.
Democrats tried and failed, again, to pass that measure, which would guarantee access to IVF nationwide. And tonight, they are using this vote to hammer Republicans who said, No.
My source, tonight, on this is Republican senator, Tom Cotton, of Arkansas.
Senator, great to have you here.
Because you and your fellow Senate Republicans mostly voted against this, arguing that it's a show vote. But Donald Trump, as you know, recently pledged to either have insurance companies, or the government, pay for fertility treatments.
So, would you have voted for a bill like this if he was in office?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Well, Kaitlan, first off, I have to correct almost everything you said in the lead-in there, almost none of which was accurate about this bill.
First off, there's no risk to IVF in this country. All 49 Republican senators, along with President Trump, support IVF. No state restricts or bans IVF.
Second, this bill was about a lot more than just IVF.
COLLINS: I didn't say that at the intro. But OK. Go ahead.
COTTON: You said that it had to guarantee access. Access is guaranteed in all 50 states, right now.
You also said that it was about IVF. It's about a lot more than IVF. This bill would mandate coverage, for experimental controversial procedures, like cloning, or gene editing, or providing fertility treatments to men, who think they're women, whatever that means.
It would also imperil religious liberty. I support IVF, as President Trump does. We also think that we should allow, say, Christian hospitals to operate their affairs, as they see fit, according to the dictates of their conscience.
Now, it's not surprising that Democrats don't agree with that. They've long persecuted Christians, like the Little Sisters of the Poor. They wanted to provide contraception coverage for nuns, or they've harassed--
COLLINS: OK, Senator. But can we--
COTTON: --Catholics, for going to traditional masses.
COLLINS: Let's stop you there.
COTTON: That's what this bill is about, Kaitlan.
No, Kaitlan, you're not going to stop me there.
COLLINS: I know you don't--
COTTON: Because you're misrepresenting what the bill is about.
COLLINS: Well let's have a conversation--
COTTON: The bill is about infringing upon religious liberty.
COLLINS: Let's have a conversation about this bill and this legislation itself. You're saying that what I said was inaccurate, that this would guarantee access to IVF, which is what it would do. You're saying that no state restricts it. But no state guarantees it.
[21:45:00]
The issue, which I know well, because this happened in my home state of Alabama, is a court, ruling that embryos count as children. And then, these IVF clinics, a lot of them closed in Alabama, as a result of this, because they're worried about lawsuits, or about the state attorney general coming after them. That is why this is an issue.
And your candidate, Donald Trump, has said that he would like to see IVF and people have access to this.
So, do you support guaranteeing access to IVF, so a ruling like that one in Alabama, would not imperil someone's access to it, by clinics saying, Well, I'm going to close because I'm worried about facing a lawsuit here, or criminal charges.
COTTON: Kaitlan, the example of Alabama proves my point. You had the Supreme Court of Alabama ruling on an old law. They felt their hands were constrained by a law.
And what happened? The political branches of the Alabama government, who are elected by and accountable to the people, promptly passed a new law that guaranteed access to IVF in Alabama, the same way every other state guarantees access to IVF.
This bill in the Senate was not about guaranteeing access to IVF, which is not threatened in any state. It was about radical, experimental, controversial treatments like things like gene editing or cloning.
And it infringes upon religious liberties, which, again, shouldn't be surprising, because the Democrats are the party that want to harass and persecute nuns or investigate Catholics for going to traditional masses.
That's why we oppose that bill, and will continue to oppose it.
COLLINS: But Senator, this bill would have guaranteed access to IVF. And you're saying that it would have forced people to do things against their religious beliefs.
I should note. This bill doesn't require anyone to perform any operations or procedures. It just says that people should have access to IVF. And it also talks about having insurance companies cover the cost for fertility treatments, something that your candidate supports.
So, just to be clear. I'm not misrepresenting the bill. You can say you don't like it. You can say that you think it's a show vote. You can talk about those aspects of it. But this is something that was put up there, and it would have guaranteed access to IVF.
So, let me ask you, while you're here, given you're a major surrogate for the Trump campaign. His proposal here is that he would like to either have the government, or insurance companies, cover the cost for fertility treatments. Has the campaign explained to you yet how he would pay for that plan?
COTTON: We haven't gotten that far, Kaitlan. I think I and most other legislators would have questions about the cost to taxpayers, or the cost in higher premiums, and as always, ensuring that we respect the religious liberty rights of all Americans.
Again, President Trump and I support IVF, as do all elected Republicans. But I respect any American, who has a different point of view, especially if they're a health care provider, or work with a Catholic charity, and they want their religious liberty respected. That's what we would do. Democrats would not do that.
COLLINS: So, if you're an American out there, and you're someone who maybe is in Alabama, and you're worried about having access to IVF?
Not because the state is saying that they're going to make it illegal. But because there's no clinics open in the state, because they're worried about Supreme Court rulings that could imperil access to it. And if the legislature had not acted, which they did under political pressure.
If you're someone out there, and you're looking at these two candidates here, ahead of November, Donald Trump and Vice President Harris, and they see what Trump is saying he'll do, but they're wanting to know, is this real, and if there's no plan to pay for it, how do they know that it's a real proposal?
COTTON: Well, Kaitlan, again, IVF is not at risk in any state. And the Alabama example proves the point. The legislature acted promptly, to change what was an old law, to ensure access to--
COLLINS: Why did they have to act if it wasn't in peril, Senator?
COTTON: Because of Supreme Court decision. That happens all the time. Court makes decisions, what--
COLLINS: But that imperiled access to IVF.
COTTON: Kaitlan. Courts make decisions interpreting laws, often old laws that haven't been updated to reflect changed circumstances all the time. And legislatures come back and they change those laws. That's what happened here.
COLLINS: OK. But my question was about the plan to pay for the proposal.
COTTON: Again, well, we can review those details at future time. There's reasonable questions about the cost of it, either the taxpayer and premiums, and how we protect the religious liberty of all of our citizens.
But Donald Trump, just like all Senate Republicans, and for the most part, most Republicans, I know, all support IVF.
What we don't support are the kind of radical proposals that Kamala Harris has addressed. Like, on the abortion question. She wants a nationwide abortion law that would mandate all states allow partial- birth abortion up to the moment of birth and deny life-saving care for any child, who was born during a botched abortion. That's what's truly radical.
COLLINS: And of course, as you know, she wants Roe versus Wade codified into law, which would go up to viability about 24 weeks.
Senator Tom Cotton, thanks for your time.
COTTON: What I know is that she won't answer a single -- she won't answer a question about what kind--
COLLINS: Senator Tom--
COTTON: She won't answer a question about what month it is appropriate to reasonably protect the rights of unborn children.
COLLINS: Right. And--
[21:50:00]
COTTON: Is it the eighth month? Is it the ninth month? She won't answer any of those questions, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And-- COTTON: Because she knows--
COLLINS: I--
COTTON: --that her radical views on these questions are out of step with the American people.
COLLINS: And Senator Tom Cotton, Donald Trump did not say on that debate stage as well, when she didn't answer that question, if he would veto a national abortion ban.
We're out of time, unfortunately. Senator Tom Cotton, thank you very much.
COTTON: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to speak to an inside source, who was golfing with Donald Trump, the day the Secret Service discovered that apparent assassination attempt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: We have new reporting, tonight, as we're learning that the acting head of the Secret Service told former President Donald Trump, he would need substantial security enhancements to happen, if he wants to keep playing golf safely at his private clubs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And my inside source, tonight, is Steve Witkoff, a longtime friend of Donald Trump's, who was on the golf course with him, on Sunday, when all of this happened.
And Steve, one, let me just say I'm so grateful that both you and the former President are OK. I mean, you were only -- one of the only people, who was there, when all of this happened. Can you just describe the scene that day for us?
STEVE WITKOFF, WITH TRUMP AT TIME OF APPARENT SECOND ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, TRUMP'S GOLFING PARTNER AND FRIEND: We got to the fifth hole. We're on the green. And I heard the first shot. I'm a gun carrier. So, I shoot. So, it was apparent that that's what it was.
With quick -- three shots right after that, in quick succession, it seemed to be coming from the righthand corner of the course, which is where the sixth hole is. That's the hole that is fronting Congress Avenue. I was up the entire time. I just, for some reason that I can't really explain to you, I just never crouched down or got behind the golf cart.
So, I was looking to my left. The President was being -- was being taken away. The Secret Service were amazing, by the way. They were -- I mean, the job they did was exemplary. They were on top of him, probably after the first shot. Then, I heard another three, and they were getting him out of there, in what seemed to be like 15 or 20 seconds.
He, of course, is the protectee, and that's the job, and they did it as professionally as I could imagine it could ever be done.
COLLINS: Yes. So, basically--
WITKOFF: And meanwhile, this--
COLLINS: So, basically, you heard the shots, and then the agents kind of grabbed -- grabbed the former President and put him on a cart and take him away. Is that what happened?
WITKOFF: Well, they were -- there were agents doing what looked to me like three things.
One, a group of agents, who were securing the President, making sure he was OK. Each and every one of them was covering him, and so they were in between where fire would have come from and the President. So, they were there to put their lives on the line. That was very clear.
There were a group of agents, who were securing the perimeter, to make sure no one else was there.
And then, there were two snipers who were next to me, and they were probably three yards away from me, with their tripods on the ground. And then they were redeploying at times, inside the cart, to maybe get a better shot, trying to figure out where the perpetrator was, the assassin.
And then, there were a group of other agents, who were moving forward towards where the assassin was, to engage with him.
COLLINS: So, the snipers--
WITKOFF: So, it was a -- it was a--
COLLINS: --are they normally there? Or was that they came up once there was clearly a threat on the course?
WITKOFF: They are -- they are normally there with us in the cart.
COLLINS: Wow.
WITKOFF: They've got semi-automatic rifles with them, or maybe they're on full automatic. But they deployed independently of the group of agents, who were securing the President.
And they were down next to me. They were -- they were down next to me on the ground, but -- so they could get a -- you know, they were more balanced in the way that they would shoot at the -- at the corner of the fairway, where this guy was, in the tree line.
And everybody doing his job. And I was mesmerized by the whole thing, Kaitlan. I really was.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, I can't even imagine how it felt, to be out there and watching all this happen, on top of the surreal factor that we just saw an assassination attempt, two months ago.
And we heard -- we had some reporting today that the acting Secret Service head told former President Trump that more security and precautions would have to be taken, if he wants to continue playing golf safely, which I think that's an important emphasis on this.
You just mentioned how it's an opportunity for him to blow off steam. Have you heard from him about whether he wants to be able to keep playing?
WITKOFF: Well, I think -- I think what I would tell him is that he should do what makes him happy. He's really happy out on the golf course.
On the other hand, he's my dear friend, and I never want to see anything happen to him. And what's been happening to him is, I mean, it's just crazy times we're living in. To me, it reminds me a bit of the 60s, and it's not something that ought to be happening in this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Our thanks to Steve Witkoff.
And thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight, the tinderbox election. The Republican ticket gaslights America over rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We cannot tell the American people that one candidate is a fascist.
TRUMP: She's a fascist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: As tensions grow after another assassination attempt.
Plus, suspicious packages are sent to election officials, nationwide, as Donald Trump threatens to jail many of them.
