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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Pro-Trump Georgia Election Board Changes Ballot Rules; NYT: Trump To Respond To Robinson Scandal After Avoiding It; Sheriff Posts Videos Of Kids Arrested For Threats To Schools. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 20, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: --sharing this life that we've lived together, for now, nearly 50 years of marriage, that's what is right for us. And that's really my message.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Well "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" that airs Sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 01:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
That's it for us. I hope you have a great weekend. I'll see you, Monday.
The news continues. Right now, "THE SOURCE" starts.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
A big change in how votes are going to be counted in the critical battleground of Georgia. Even as Republican election officials argue it could be illegal, Donald Trump's allies pushed it through.
Plus, we'll go inside Trump-world, on the drama in North Carolina. The Republican, Trump endorsed for governor, refusing to drop out in the wake of CNN's explosive exclusive report, revealing that he called himself a Black Nazi, on a porn forum.
Plus, a fed-up Florida Sheriff now publicly identifying kids, arrested for threatening violence, calling on parents to do their jobs, saying that if they won't, he will. Tonight, he is my source.
I'm Boris Sanchez. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening and thanks for joining us. I'm Boris Sanchez, in for Kaitlan Collins.
A battleground state election board just made a move that could upend the entire election, if that rule change stands. We're talking about Georgia, where Vice President Kamala Harris stumped today, where Donald Trump narrowly lost in 2020, and then demanded that election officials find him votes, ultimately leading him to criminal charges.
Now, four years later, new concerns are emerging, after the pro-Trump majority, on Georgia's election board, voted today, to force counties to hand-count all ballots on Election Day, despite objections from the Republican Secretary of State, and Republican Attorney General, warning, that might be illegal.
The three Republicans on the panel got a very public shout-out from Trump himself, last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have to make sure that we stop them from cheating, because they cheat like dogs.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: I don't know if you've heard, but the Georgia State Election Board is in a very positive way. This is a very positive thing. They're on fire. They're doing a great job. Three members.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Three people.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Are all pit bulls fighting for honesty, transparency and victory. They're fighting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, those three so-called pit bulls, according to Trump, made a move that some are warning could disrupt or delay the whole certification process. The vote was three to two. And one of those two who voted against the change joins us now.
Let's go straight to THE SOURCE, with the only Democrat on the Georgia State Election Board, Sara Tindall Ghazal.
Sara, thank you so much for sharing your evening with us.
You remember, it took about a week in 2020, for that hand recount of every presidential ballot in Georgia. From a practical standpoint, what is this going to mean, in terms of figuring out who wins?
SARA TINDALL GHAZAL, MEMBER, GEORGIA STATE ELECTION BOARD: Well, first, it's a little bit different from that, the audit. What the rule that we passed tonight requires is that the actual ballot papers are counted. They're not doing a hand tabulation. So, it shouldn't take days, but it certainly will take hours.
And in the aftermath of 2020, our legislature set incredibly tight deadlines for recording the actual tabulation. So, if counties haven't uploaded their vote totals, by midnight, they're out of compliance. They have violated state statute. And this rule is going to make it incredibly difficult, for counties to do that. So, we're really setting them up for failure.
SANCHEZ: Do you anticipate this is going to wind up in court? And do you think it could be adjudicated before Election Day?
TINDALL GHAZAL: I would not be at all surprised if it winds up in court. I certainly hope it would be adjudicated. Courts need to be expediting all election-related cases, right now. And it's -- was certainly made clear to us.
And this is something I argued initially, because as the only attorney on the board, I understand the scope of our authority, and this goes way beyond it. So, I expect it will be -- it will be sued over it, which is what our Chair had warned everyone. But I am hopeful that the courts will see fit, and be done with it quickly.
SANCHEZ: Sure. Sure.
You sort of alluded to this, a moment ago, but I was hoping you might expand on it. The new rule was proposed by someone, known for peddling conspiracy theories about election workers. Do you think the election denialism, from 2020, and Trump's lies about it, ultimately influenced this board?
[21:05:00]
TINDALL GHAZAL: Literally, every single petition that we have heard, and we have passed, has been brought to the board, by somebody who denies the 2020 election results. That is the only thing motivating these rules.
This is not the standard rulemaking process. That should be deliberative. That should involve the election administrators, themselves. That should involve our attorneys. That's not how any of this happened.
SANCHEZ: Sara Tindall Ghazal, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate your time.
TINDALL GHAZAL: My pleasure.
SANCHEZ: My political sources, tonight.
Former senior adviser on Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Karen Finney.
And former senior adviser to Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings.
A pleasure to share this evening with both of you.
Karen, how big a concern is this for the State of Georgia? One that Democrats clearly think they can win.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yes, it's a big concern in Georgia. But I think you have to take two vantage points on this, having done elections in Georgia.
This is a strategy designed to sow chaos. That we will have lawsuits. There will be a lot of back-and-forth in the coming weeks. We have 46 days to the election. Ballots have already been printed, all of that.
One of the concerns is you can't even train ballot workers in time on how to do this. And there's lots of concerns about what's the chain of custody of the paper ballots. There's lots of issues here. So that's a separate issue.
The larger issue is, again, sowing chaos, because if you -- part of what they were doing was giving themselves the authority to delay certifying the election. And what that means -- that throws not just Georgia into chaos, but the whole election into chaos.
It also provides a rationale, potentially, for Donald Trump, something I think we all believe he will do anyway, to claim that there was a problem with the election. I mean, on the debate stage, he said, our elections are a disaster, right?
So, it's a way to create -- if people are seeing stories that there was some problem in Georgia, right? It's a way to throw the whole thing into chaos, like he tried to do in 2020, and just basically slow down the system, and buy himself time as he tries to fight it out again.
So it's, yes, there's a Georgia-specific problem, but it also creates, potentially, a national problem.
SANCHEZ: Scott, we know someone that doesn't like it when these vote tallies take too long. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's a terrible thing when ballots can be collected after an election.
And I don't think it's fair that we have to wait a long period of time after the election.
I think it's terrible when we can't know the results of an election the night of the election in a modern-day age of computer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It seems like four years ago, Trump didn't like this idea.
What do you say to Karen, who argues that Republicans are opening up an opportunity to sow chaos?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Oh, I think hand-counting 5.5 million ballots would take a very long time. And I mean, I'm only moderately good at math. 5.5 million pieces of paper sound like a lot to me.
SANCHEZ: Yes. JENNINGS: And so, I understand the -- I understand the concerns about the logistics of it, and how long it would take, and what that could do.
So, I suspect that's why, when this gets sued and it goes to court, a judge is, you know, there's probably a strong possibility, going to say, Look, we're too close to the election to try to implement something like this.
On the other hand, I will just say, I do think there are Republicans, in Georgia, who do want more certainty in the outcome of the ballot counting, and they just, they want to feel like there are many eyes on it as possible, to give them, the people of Georgia, the most confidence they can have that everything was counted properly, and so on and so forth. So, I don't want to cast any aspersions on the motives here.
But it does strike me that the logistics of this would make it difficult. They did some other things too, to increase confidence in the election which are -- which are probably fine. But counting 5.5 million ballots? It's hard, by hand. And the machines, you know, they're pretty good.
FINNEY: Yes, well, I was just going to say, actually this week, I had a briefing on Georgia, and was able to look at some internal data that showed, interestingly enough, moderate voters, liberal voters in Georgia, even some moderate Republicans, in focus groups, said, Oh yes, they're trying to steal the election. We know what they're up to.
So, what's interesting is the -- what this could also have an impact of having people surge to the polls, to say, They're trying to take it away from us? Oh, hell no. We're going to vote in bigger numbers to make sure that they can't take it away from us.
So, it's interesting. Look, I'm just telling, I mean, it was interesting to see them--
JENNINGS: So, you think -- you think there are people, who are -- who are actively planning not to vote, if not--
FINNEY: No.
JENNINGS: --but for this arcane matter?
FINNEY: No. I'm saying that there are people, who are more motivated to vote, particularly Black voters, for whom voting in Georgia is really hard. Sometimes, an all-day--
JENNINGS: Oh, come on. It's not.
FINNEY: I've been there.
JENNINGS: It's not.
FINNEY: It is a long -- people have -- we have stories of people having to go-- SANCHEZ: Standing in line for hours.
FINNEY: --all over the place.
[21:10:00]
JENNINGS: It's never been easier to vote in America and in Georgia than it is right now.
FINNEY: Well, I'll tell you what. You--
SANCHEZ: I hope they don't get thirsty, so they don't have to have somebody bring them water, and--
FINNEY: Exactly.
JENNINGS: Oh, come on guys.
SANCHEZ: But Scott, there's something else--
JENNINGS: Are we going to play this game again?
FINNEY: But--
SANCHEZ: There's something else I want to ask you about, specifically in Nebraska, because that--
JENNINGS: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: --congressional district, that one electoral vote--
JENNINGS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --could prove pivotal in this election.
Trump was on a call, this week, trying to sway Republicans there, to change the rules. Shouldn't he just go there and campaign, and win it outright, instead of trying to change the rules?
JENNINGS: Well, I don't know. I mean, it is unusual to do something like this. Of course, it was unusual, for Democrats, to throw Biden out at the last minute too. So, I guess we're having a summer of -- and fall of unusual activities. It strikes me, what I've heard is that it's not likely to happen. I guess, they're trying.
And look, I think both campaigns are scraping and clawing for every advantage. You're right. It is pivotal. I still think, if you look at Harris, and she were to win the blue wall, but loses Sun Belt, she needs that to get to 270, so it is a vital matter for her, to be able to compete in that one congressional district.
They do, do it differently there than most other states. So, if they changed, it would bring them in line with most states. But it still seems like it's uphill to change it at this point. But we'll see.
SANCHEZ: They would wind up sending a tied Electoral College to the House.
JENNINGS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Trump widely expected to, to potentially win there.
JENNINGS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I want to pivot, you mentioned the Sun Belt, to Vice President Kamala Harris, in Georgia, today, obviously underscoring the importance of the Peach State.
I want to share with you some of what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Think about that. And these hypocrites want to start talking about this is in the best interest of women and children? Well, where've you been?
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Where've you been?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: When it comes to taking care of the women and children of America.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Where've you been?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: How dare they?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: How dare they?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: She was trying to draw attention there to the deaths of two women that a ProPublica report linked to the state's abortion restrictions. FINNEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What do you make of her trying to put a human face on this issue? It seems like it could be fraught, potentially.
FINNEY: Well, look, I don't know if either of you had the opportunity to see or hear from the mother of one of the women, who spoke, last night, at the event with Oprah. And I mean, she said, I'm just a broken person, from what happened to their daughter.
They recently -- only recently learned that their daughter was left to suffer, for 20 hours, because the doctors were is -- you know, Is her life in danger? Can we do something? Can we not do something?
And that's not the only story. I think what is important, this is exactly what we warned about, when Roe v. Wade was overturned, and it went back to the states that the states were going to pass draconian laws that were endangering women's lives.
We also heard, last night, from beautiful Hadley, who was featured actually in an ad in -- the Kentucky governor's race.
JENNINGS: She's from Kentucky, yes.
FINNEY: Yes, who, at 12-years-old, had to have an abortion, after seven years of being raped by her father.
So, these are real stories. These are real women. This is really happening in this country. And I think and there -- and it doesn't just happen to the women. It happens to the men who love them. It happens to families. And it doesn't need to.
And the thing that this mother said last night that was just broke your heart. She said it was preventable. It was just so preventable.
So, I think that's part of what the Vice President is talking about, and talking about the need to, this is our freedom, for many women, for us, this is our ability to make decisions about our body, is a fundamental issue. It is an economic issue. It is a personal issue. It is a health care issue. So, I think it's important that she continues to talk about that.
SANCHEZ: And Scott, last word to you. Your thoughts on this approach?
JENNINGS: Well, I think for Harris, it's obviously the issue she cares about the most. It's part of their core strategy, to try to win the election, in all these swing states. And I would expect this to be part of their campaign, moving forward.
The question is, is it going to be more important than the economy, immigration, crime and other things. And that's what's what the next 40-something days is about.
SANCHEZ: Scott Jennings. Karen Finney. Appreciate you all staying up late with us tonight. Thank you so much.
FINNEY: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: New tonight. A fundraiser for the Republican nominee for governor in North Carolina was just canceled. More fallout from Mark Robinson, in the wake of CNN's report that he called himself a Black Nazi, on a porn website.
And a sheriff says he's been pushed to the limit, fed up with kids making fake threats to schools. He's now posting videos of the children accused, doing perp walks, some of them as young as a 11- years-old. He's my source, tonight.
Stay with CNN.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The ballots are on their way out, in North Carolina, and Mark Robinson's name sits right there as the Republican nominee for governor. That's despite CNN's K-FILE reporting about his online posts, on a porn forum, between 2008 and 2012, calling himself a Black Nazi, a quote, perv, who supports the return of slavery.
Robinson has denied it all, saying it's not him and that these are salacious tabloid lies.
But we're learning, as Donald Trump holds a rally, in North Carolina, tomorrow, the Lieutenant Governor has not been invited, as Democrats race to tie Robinson, even closer to Trump, whether it's on billboards or ads like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's been an unbelievable Lieutenant Governor, Mark Robinson.
MARK ROBINSON, (R) NOMINEE FOR NORTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF NORTH CAROLINA: For me, there's no compromise on abortion.
TRUMP: I think you're better than Martin Luther King.
ROBINSON: We could pass a bill saying you can't have an abortion in North Carolina for any reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
SANCHEZ: My next source is the Chair of the North Carolina Democratic Party, Anderson Clayton.
Anderson, thank you so much for being with us.
Mark Robinson won statewide office, despite previously saying a lot of other outrageous things. And I just want to remind viewers of what they were. Let's play a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: If you are a man on Friday night and you're at the mall on Saturday night, you better go to the men's bathroom.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBINSON: If you are confused, find a corner outside.
So many freedoms were lost during the Civil Rights movement that shouldn't have been lost.
There's no reason anybody anywhere in America--
(APPLAUSE)
ROBINSON: --should be telling any time about transgenderism, homosexuality, any of that filth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: As he denies CNN's reporting, do you think this news is going to turn away voters when all that other stuff didn't seem to?
ANDERSON CLAYTON, CHAIR, NORTH CAROLINA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Well, you just said it yourself that Donald Trump's not having him, at his rally, tomorrow. So that should tell you something, I think, about the distance that they're trying to show.
We've also seen folks like Luke Farley, who's running for Commissioner of Labor, as the Republican nominee this year, delete social media posts with Mark Robinson's -- Mark Robinson, last night. And also, other folks like Laurie Buckhout, who's running against Don Davis in CD 1 in the northeastern part of our state, also do the same.
They are trying to separate themselves from him. But they will not publicly, no Republican candidate in North Carolina, or incumbent, has come out and publicly said that they would like to see Mark Robinson step down, or not maintain the governor's office or the nomination.
SANCHEZ: What do you make of that?
CLAYTON: I mean, I think it shows you that Mark Robinson represents the Republican Party, and that Donald Trump and Mark Robinson are no different. They're the exact same extremism. And we see it up and down the ballot, in North Carolina, right now.
Whether that be someone like Michele Morrow, who's running for Superintendent of Schools, right now, who has called for the public execution of President Barack Obama, and our Governor, Roy Cooper, here in North Carolina. To folks like Dan Bishop, who is the author of HB 2 in our state, from 2016, the bathroom bill that cost North Carolina over $3 billion in economic opportunity, across our state.
I mean, you're looking at people that do not represent North Carolina values, whatsoever, at every level of the ballot, this year, on the Republican side. SANCHEZ: I spoke to former Republican governor, Pat McCrory, today, who said that rumors about Robinson's private life had been swirling, for years, among members of both parties.
So, did it surprise you that this came to light, just as the deadline hit for Robinson to be replaced on the ballot?
CLAYTON: Look, I think it was a last-ditch effort, potentially, by the Republicans. But I also think that they have been touting this man, across the state, for the last year, as their candidate.
And every single Republican has proudly come out and endorsed somebody who, to your point, earlier, called himself, quote, a Nazi, and honestly, took notes from Mein Kampf. Like, we are literally seeing someone, right now, who is a person that would take North Carolina back to a place that we do not recognize.
And I think it is important for everybody tuning in, right now, from North Carolina, to understand that you have so many more qualified candidates, running up and down the ballot, this year, that want to represent your best interest. And you can get out on the doors, this weekend, with us, and help talk to voters about the importance of this election by going to ncdp.org, and helping us out.
SANCHEZ: Your state historically has split the ticket. And in the last 11 presidential elections, it's gone to Democrats exactly once. I mean, Cooper got elected twice, and both times Donald Trump won North Carolina. Cooper, I should point out, Roy Cooper is a Democratic governor.
Do you think that his scandal, Robinson's scandal, could actually have an effect on ballot, and tilt the presidential race?
CLAYTON: I absolutely think Mark Robinson should bring Donald Trump down. But I also think that you have to look at the fact that the last time a Democratic won -- or Democrat won our presidential race, here in North Carolina, we had a Democratic state legislature.
And, right now, we sit in the super minority, in both chambers, by one seat in North Carolina State House and State Senate, and Republicans have had majority control, to gerrymander our state, disenfranchise voters, those especially in northeastern North Carolina, right now.
And we're fighting to make sure that we have free and fair elections, this year, in the state, by electing folks like Supreme Court Justice Allison Riggs, back to the bench, this year, to fight for better -- better folks, across North Carolina, that deserve the opportunity to actually have their voices represented in politics, and not have politicians picking their voters.
SANCHEZ: Anderson Clayton, appreciate the time. Thanks for joining us.
CLAYTON: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: And tonight, there is new reporting, on how Trump's team is handling the fallout, from CNN's report. While Trump has stayed mum about Robinson, he is soon expected to break his silence.
The New York Times' Maggie Haberman is here with her reporting.
Maggie, thanks so much for being with us.
Sources told you that Trump is set to weigh in, at some point, between now and his event tomorrow, in North Carolina. What do you anticipate that's going to look like?
[21:25:00]
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think it's going to look like saying the minimum. What most people, who have talked to him, said they expect him to say is some version of, I hardly know the guy.
As we know, right now, Democrats are airing an ad, tying Trump to Mark Robinson. And I don't know if that might make him say something different, if he would want to condemn it, or try to distance himself further, and be more forceful about it.
But his team is certainly looking to put a lot of miles, between Donald Trump and Mark Robinson, and had been, I should note, leading up to this. Because there has been, as discussed before, this swirl of rumors around him for some time, a lot of concerns around him, for some time. Trump got behind him anyway, and here we are.
SANCHEZ: We know Robinson is not expected at that rally, tomorrow. But he has been a frequent presence--
HABERMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --at Trump's events there.
The former President has said things, like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's been an unbelievable Lieutenant Governor, Mark Robinson.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: This is Martin Luther King on steroids.
I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Trump's team, as you noted, wants distance between him and Robinson. But Harris, as you noted, is already using that as part of her ads.
What goes into the calculus, over how much Trump is going to say? Like, how is that decision ultimately made? HABERMAN: The problem with trying to come up with a calculus for what Trump is going to say is that Trump often just then goes out and says whatever he wants, or says something different, or posts at 01:00 a.m. on Truth Social. And so, the plans can get upended by the candidate.
What his advisers would like him to do is to put, again, put more distance between himself and Robinson. There are some people who thought that Trump needs to publicly disavow Robinson. And I think that's what we are watching for, to see if he does anything like that, tomorrow.
Saying something like, I hardly know the guy, we have heard him say that about dozens and dozens of people, controversial endorsees, controversial supporters, controversial former advisers. And so, the list goes on and on. The weight of what is swirling around Mark Robinson is so much that I think it's going to be hard for Trump to just say that. But we'll see.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's a common theme of the Trump era, for sure.
HABERMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: So, as Trump is preparing for this rally tomorrow, there was a moment at his New York rally. It was just a split second, but it was quite revealing. And I want to play it now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will go in to a -- I thought this was a wise guy coming up.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: This guy, I thought, I'm getting ready, I'm going like this.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You know, I got a little bit of a yip problem here, right? That was amazing. I was all ready to start duking it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He describes it as a bit of a yip problem. He seems to flinch when he, out of the corner of his eyes, sees some movement and imagines someone lunging out from the crowd.
What did you think when you saw that?
HABERMAN: So, it's interesting. It was -- I was in at the arena on Long Island for that rally. It was hard from where we were to see it. I had to go back and look at the video.
We could hear him. Clearly something had happened. Looking at his face is very telling, because you see his eyes dart off to the right, and he jerks his body, and he says it that he thought that somebody was coming up to the stage. This is clearly his reaction after what happened, on Sunday, when there was another apparent assassination attempt on him, the second in just over two months. And he is -- he is on edge. For him to say that he has a yip problem, which is an acknowledgement of anxiety, is pretty unusual, for a guy who likes to project strength at all times.
SANCHEZ: How has the assassination attempts, this continued warning from officials that Tehran is plotting something to eliminate him, how has all of that changed his views of the race and running for president, if at all?
HABERMAN: He and his campaign, feel very under siege. They just feel as if they are under attack, all the time, in one way or another, and for a variety of reasons.
There are physical threats. There are internet threats. There is a number of threats. And it's coming from various places. There's the Iranian ones that you mentioned.
But there's the one shooter in Butler, Pennsylvania, and there's the alleged gunman in Florida. And so far, there's no reason to believe that those have ties to anybody. Those are -- those were just people, who were sort of activated on their own and went out to find him.
And so, for all of those reasons, it is clearly impacted -- impacting, excuse me, how they are operating day-to-day, and it is with some strain.
SANCHEZ: Maggie Haberman, always great to have you on. Thanks for joining us.
HABERMAN: Thanks, Boris.
SANCHEZ: Up next. A Florida Sheriff making good on his promise, to name and shame those accused of making fake school shooting threats, including minors as young as 11. He'll join us live, in just moments.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hundreds of bogus school shooting threats are pushing a Florida sheriff to take controversial new steps. Sheriff Mike Chitwood says that he will name and shame the kids arrested, and their parents too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MIKE CHITWOOD, VOLUSIA COUNTY, FLORIDA: Your little cherub? We're going to start publishing his face and doing perp walks with him when we take him into custody, and then we're going to show pictures of you, the parents. Because you don't want to raise your kid? Sheriff Chitwood is going to raise them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
SANCHEZ: This week, the Sheriff posted this video, on social media, of an 11-year-old middle schooler being arrested, in Port Orange, Florida. CNN has decided against showing the minor, who is now facing a felony charge, of making a threat to commit a mass shooting.
Let's get straight to THE SOURCE, tonight, with Volusia County Sheriff, Mike Chitwood.
Sheriff, thanks so much for being with us.
What made you start doing this? What was the tipping point?
CHITWOOD: Thank you for the opportunity.
Last Friday, we received 54 threats that basically put the school system in my county in chaos. We were able to arrest two individuals, for those threats, and they ran up a bill of about $21,000 in excessive overtime. Schools were on lockdown. Kids couldn't learn. Teachers couldn't teach. Parents had had it.
So, out of anger and frustration, you saw the press conference, and I said, Here's what we're going to do, starting Monday. If your little cherub gets arrested, and they're charged with a felony of a second degree? Under Florida law, I had the right to perp-walk them and release all the information.
And that's what we did, starting this week.
SANCHEZ: You posted another video, just yesterday, of two more minors, 16-years-old, 17-years-old, saying they were locked up for a joke threat.
Before you started this, did it strike you as problematic that they hadn't yet actually been convicted of a crime?
CHITWOOD: No, it hasn't. The 11-year-old, so we understand one another here, what you didn't tell is he had over a dozen knives. He had over 20 airsoft weapons, and he had a kill list. And on that kill list was the bus driver, the nurse, and a bunch of his fellow students.
These other ones we locked up the other day, they were in assembly, where they were telling the students what will happen to them, if they do a school threat. And in the back of the assembly, they got on Snapchat, and they put it out there.
So, it's time we start respecting the rights of the other 66,000 students, in my school district, and stop worrying about the knuckleheads that are destroying the quality of life for our school district.
SANCHEZ: You told our team that all three minors are still in custody, tonight. How long do you plan to hold them?
CHITWOOD: That won't be up to me. That will be up to a judge. What we are requesting is everyone arrested, here on, going forward, 21 days in secure custody. When you get out, 60 days on an ankle (ph) monitor, followed by intense probation, which involves mental health. It involves everything you can imagine, up to, to try to get these kids on the right path, and no social media outside of school, work for six months.
SANCHEZ: Sheriff, there are likely viewers at home, folks who see this and think, as you put it out, I was a little cherub once. I made some really dumb decisions, stupid decisions when I was younger. Your brain isn't fully developed. You're easily influenced. You're very emotional.
Couldn't these punishments, and their names being made public, wind up having a lasting impact into adulthood, that perhaps doesn't necessarily fit the crime?
CHITWOOD: I'm going to go back into what I said earlier. I have 66,000 students trying to do the right thing. I have teachers that are trying to teach. I have parents that hadn't -- have had enough of this.
And writing a kill list out? I don't think we did that. I would ask you this, in all respects. How would you feel if we notified you that your child, or your wife who was a school teacher, was on a kill list?
I think -- and my county overwhelmingly supports what we're doing. So, I would beg American, please stop making excuses for the 1 percent. Focus on the 99 percent that are trying to achieve, and that they're tired of the lockdowns.
SANCHEZ: I totally understand someone being held accountable for their actions. I'm just wondering if making a child's image like that public might mess them up if they want to change and perhaps go to a good college and get a good job?
CHITWOOD: Well, how messed up is it when a 9-year-old is locked in a bathroom, standing on a toilet seat, because there's an active-shooter threat? And now law enforcement is searching that school, and that 9- year-old was locked in a bathroom or a closet?
Again, why are we focusing on the 1 percent that doesn't want to conform, when the other 99 percent kids that are in lockdown, what's happening to them that nobody's caring about?
SANCHEZ: Sheriff Mike Chitwood, appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. Thanks for joining us.
CHITWOOD: I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
I want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst, and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams, now to discuss.
Elliot, your reaction to all of that, starting with, is it legal? Is the Sheriff within his rights to do that, to post the names and videos of these young kids?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: He is 100 percent within his rights. It's a 100 percent legal. But just because something's legal doesn't necessarily mean you should do it, Boris.
Now, look, there's certainly a public interest that the Sheriff has, in preventing school shootings, keeping the community, the 66,000 students safe.
But any time you start releasing information that, number one, calls into question that presumption of innocence, that you talk about people are presumed innocent if they haven't been convicted of a crime.
[21:40:00]
And then, number two, that you're talking about children who are still developing, but also may not have the mental capacity, to know between right and wrong? It just starts getting more complicated.
I hear the Sheriff. I hear him, and respect everything he's saying. But it's just complicated.
SANCHEZ: What about potential consequences for them? He talked about the courts deciding how long to hold them, and there being some, perhaps probation with mental health counseling, access to mentors, potentially a six-month ban on social media usage. Does that line up with--
WILLIAMS: It does line up.
SANCHEZ: --sentence--
WILLIAMS: And because the juvenile system, and it exists in Florida, there's a separate system for dealing with juveniles, who commit or alleged to have commit crime -- committed crimes, you're actually, you have far more latitude there. It's not just prison or no prison. A judge or a Tribunal can impose a social media ban, or counseling, or sometime locked up behind bars, to try to get the kid back to the place.
And you asked him this question, where they can get their life back on track, where you're not just punishing them, and locking them up. But again, this all comes down to a community that wants to prevent school shootings.
SANCHEZ: And quickly, Elliot. What about the parents? What kind of consequences can they face?
WILLIAMS: Well, there really should be more consequences on the parents, and not the 11-year-olds.
And so, if there were a way to get in the parents' heads, rather than outing the behavior of this developing kid, who -- look, my kid, my son turns 11, next week, and I'm -- he's never shot up a school. But I'm confident that the kinds of things that a 11-year-olds say and do, they're not fully aware of, necessarily.
And so, it can't just be a thing, where you're shaming the child. It's got to be on the parents more.
SANCHEZ: Happy early birthday, to your son.
WILLIAMS: Yes, it's exciting.
SANCHEZ: Elliot Williams, appreciate you joining us.
Up next. Vice President Kamala Harris stumping, in Wisconsin, tonight, also trying to court voters, nationwide, who still say they want to learn more about her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: What do you want me to do with each one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just drop them on the floor. Yes, we'll--
HARRIS: It's not going to be in the camera shot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's off-camera.
HARRIS: Because I don't believe in littering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I know. We're going to pick them back.
HARRIS: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: In a new interview, Vice President Kamala Harris is talking about her family, specifically her children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Does Kamala Harris have kids? Yes, I have two. Cole and Ella became my cherished children. You know, I'm a kid of divorced parents. It was important to make sure that when I developed a relationship with the kids, that it would be lasting. I love those kids to pieces. They are my children, and I'm very proud of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Earlier this week, Arkansas governor, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said her own kids help keep her humble, and took a swipe at Harris, saying that she, quote, "Doesn't have anything keeping her humble."
Joining us now is Van Jones, CNN Political Commentator, and former Obama adviser.
Van, thanks for being with us tonight.
So, what we saw from Harris there, not a conventional sit-down interview. She hasn't done many. Do you believe that sort of thing is the right strategy to reach voters?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Look, I think she's doing a great job of using unconventional media to get to folks.
A lot of people -- look, you know, the best people are watching cable news, right now, tonight, of course, of course. But it turns out there are some people that don't watch cable news, and wouldn't even catch a normal interview, and those are the persuadable people, the people who need to be moved.
So, she did that very unconventional interview with WIRED. But it was really fascinating, because what they did was they just took all the normal internet searches, that regular people are doing, and they had her answer the questions off the internet. And it was really fascinating.
And what she said about her family, I thought was beautiful. Because frankly, a lot of us have been impacted by divorce, either as children or as adults. Kamala Harris is A-plus-plus, in figuring out how to make a blended family work. Many of us wish we had families that work as well as hers.
And I think we -- I think we should be lifting up Kamala Harris' example. You don't have to have everybody fighting, and not speaking, and this one's mad. You can't be on the same space -- WhatsApp groups together, just because there was a divorce. You can literally have all the adults together, which somehow Kamala has pulled off, and the kids are doing great. She's a great example.
And she spoke about it in an unconditional interview. But we're talking about it, tonight, anyway.
SANCHEZ: Yes, we saw how Harris leveraged Oprah's star power, and her ability to reach a wide swath of voters. Here was one moment that surprised me, Van.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST AND TELEVISION PRODUCER: At the debate, when you--
HARRIS: I'm a gun owner. Tim Walz is a gun--
WINFREY: I did not know that.
(LAUGHTER)
WINFREY: And I thought that was--
HARRIS: If somebody breaks into my house, they're getting shot.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: I'm sorry.
WINFREY: Yes, yes. I hear that. I hear that.
HARRIS: Probably should not have said that.
(LAUGHTER)
WINFREY: But--
HARRIS: My staff will deal with that later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There's no question there that she's trying to appeal to some conservatives--
JONES: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --that might be unhappy with Donald Trump, and swing voters as well.
JONES: And that's also Kamala Harris. I mean, I've known Kamala, for 25 years. And listen, I would -- I would advise you not to break into Kamala Harris' house. I mean, don't do it.
And I think it's great. I love the fact that she's out there talking. And even though it's unconventional, it's Oprah Winfrey, it's not Jake Tapper. Listen, that was a really fascinating interview, and she let her guard down. That was Kamala Harris. She grew up in Oakland.
Don't run up in her house. Do not run up in her house.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it seems like a really bad idea.
[21:50:00]
We know that polls have shown the race consistently to be a dead heat. Do you think it's more moments like that, that are needed to change the state of the race? What else does she need to bolster her momentum--
JONES: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --and break through with voters who say they're not quite as familiar with her?
JONES: Look, more and more and more, the more people hear from Kamala Harris, the more they see Kamala Harris, the more comfortable they are.
She's running against somebody, who's literally a household name on five continents. Donald Trump is completely well-defined. Martians know who Donald Trump is. Kamala Harris, six months ago, if you asked somebody who's the Vice President is, people don't even know her name. And so, she has a lot of work to do, to get people comfortable.
People say stuff that's not true. Is it, I didn't want to know more policy. I want to know more policy. Look, she's got a ton of policies on the website. They want to know her. They want to know her. And I think she's doing a much better job now.
Get off that stage. The Beyonce thing is fine. But get here, get knee- to-knee with reporters. Be with regular people. Talk to people on their phones, where they can see you. And I think she's going to do better and better as we go..
SANCHEZ: But isn't that kind of a problem? The fact that she's been Vice President, for three years, and yet this New York Times poll recently showed that about a quarter of likely voters still feel they need to know more about her. Does that unfamiliarity concern you?
JONES: It's just, when you're a Vice President, it's kind of a sucky job. I mean, it really is. Like, I mean, what did Pence do for four years? I don't know. Probably just duck shoes being thrown in by Donald Trump. I don't know.
And so, I just think it's kind of a sucky job. You kind of have to stand behind somebody, and nod your head through the speeches, and that's pretty much it, for the public's point of view. So, it's not unusual.
Don't forget. She was not running for president eight weeks ago. She's running for president now. I am glad that people want to know more about her, because it means she's got room to grow. Nobody's asking to know more about Donald Trump. In fact, the opposite. But she's got room to grow.
SANCHEZ: Van, one last thing. It's your birthday. Happy birthday. Having a good one?
JONES: Thank you. I was trying to get out of here without having to do that. But listen, I am happy to do another trip around the sun. This is my fourth presidential election with CNN. I did 2012, 2016, 2020, now, 2024. And is not my first birthday here, and I don't mind it at all.
SANCHEZ: I hope you're ready to ride the roller coaster, the rest of the way.
JONES: Well I'm on.
SANCHEZ: Because this one is not like the others.
Van Jones, happy birthday.
JONES: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Hope you have a good weekend.
JONES: All right, thank you, man.
SANCHEZ: Next. A political controversy that started brewing in the 90s, is still alive and kicking today. We'll explain, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDICE BERGEN, AMERICAN ACTRESS: My character was attacked by Vice President Dan Quayle.
(LAUGHTER)
BERGEN: When Murphy became pregnant and decided to raise the baby as a single mother.
Today, a Republican candidate for vice president would never attack a woman for having kids. So, as they say, My work here is done.
(APPLAUSE)
BERGEN: Meow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Candice Bergen literally meowed at the Daytime Emmys, this week, a reference to childless cat ladies, which has become a viral meme, and highlighted her own 90s controversy.
That's now the first episode of new CNN Original Series, "TV ON THE EDGE: MOMENTS THAT SHAPED OUR CULTURE," looking at the most impactful moments in TV history, exploring how key cultural events influenced a generation of viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Half the country was gratified to hear the diminution of the family be addressed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To have Murphy Brown being glorified on television, as a single mother, is really questionable, if not an absolute injustice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a battle in our hands that I think is equal to the battle on communism.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank God, Dan Quayle had the guts to come out and say something about it.
MARK MCKINNON, POLITICAL ADVISOR: Dan Quayle was from Indiana. He was very young, when he won the seat in Congress. Part of the reason for his success is that he was just willing to take on these incumbents when nobody else would.
(APPLAUSE)
DAVID CHALIAN, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, CNN: At age 33, Dan Quayle was the youngest person ever elected senator from the State of Indiana.
(CHEERING)
DAN QUAYLE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's time to make this country work again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a, you know, kind of a polished new face, and that was, of course, part of his appeal to George H. W. Bush in the campaign.
GEORGE H. W. BUSH, 41ST U.S. PRESIDENT: The next Vice President of the United States, Senator Dan Quayle of Indiana. Go get them.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
ROBERT DOMINGUEZ, MANAGING EDITOR, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I think they thought that Dan Quayle would be the poster boy for young Republican, straight-laced future of the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a handsome fellow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe president one day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
DOMINGUEZ: And it backfired tremendously.
MCKINNON: The main liability for Quayle, when he was picked as VP, was that he's inexperienced.
CHALIAN: In 1988, at the vice presidential debate, Dan Quayle uses a moment to compare himself to a young John F. Kennedy, and Lloyd Bentsen saw an opening.
LLOYD BENTSEN, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
MCKINNON: It may be the most epic debate moment in history. Microwaved Dan Quayle on the spot into a puddle.
QUAYLE: That was really uncalled for, Senator.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:00:00]
SANCHEZ: Be sure to tune in. "TV ON THE EDGE: MOMENTS THAT SHAPED OUR CULTURE" premieres this Sunday, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, on CNN.
Hey, thank you so much for joining us, tonight. Kaitlan will be back, next week.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts in just a few seconds.
