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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Lashes Out At Zelenskyy As GOP Accuses Him Of Election Interference; Harris: Women Don't Need To Hear Trump Say He'll Protect Them, They "Need Him To Trust Them" To Make Reproductive Decisions; New York City Mayor Eric Adams Indicted. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 25, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you a fan of Taylor Swift?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ew, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, Taylor Swift said who she wanted to vote for. Do you think that her vote is going to influence the election?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes? Why do you think that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Swifties will follow her lead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that her endorsement would impact the election?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think that she would have such a big impact on the election?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because she's like, very, very popular.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ask half of the school. They'll tell you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Well, the news can continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Republicans now accusing Ukraine, of interfering in the U.S. election, because President Zelenskyy just went to Pennsylvania, as the House Speaker now says someone needs to be fired.
Pennsylvania senator, John Fetterman, is here to respond.
And Vice President Harris, tonight, is firing off a message for Donald Trump, in a new interview. Hear her response, to him saying he'll be women's protector if he's reelected.
And tonight, there's even more Secret Service turmoil after an agent is now on leave, over allegations of sexual misconduct against a staffer for Vice President Harris' campaign.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
A battle in the battlegrounds is playing out, tonight. As Vice President Harris is laying out her economic plan, in Pennsylvania. While Donald Trump is talking about his in North Carolina, at one point in that speech, referring to Harris as a quote, "One-woman economic wrecking ball."
But after he went after his opponent, in the 2024 race, Trump dedicated part of his speech to attacking another world leader, lashing out at Ukrainian president Zelenskyy, for saying in an interview that Trump, quote, "Doesn't really know how to stop the war even if he might think he knows."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look at the war in Ukraine, and I think it's something we have to have a quick discussion about, because the President of Ukraine is in our country, and he's making little nasty aspersions toward your favorite president.
Those cities are gone. They're gone. And we continue to give billions of dollars to a man who refuses to make a deal. Zelenskyy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: All of this comes after Zelenskyy visited an ammunition plant, in Pennsylvania, earlier this week, where he was thanking workers who are making the critical munitions that are being used, in his country's war against Russia.
He was there, as you can see here, alongside Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro.
But that all set off a firestorm, on Capitol Hill, today, where the Republican House Oversight Committee Chair, James Comer, said he's going to open an investigation into the matter. As House Speaker Mike Johnson directly accused Zelenskyy of interfering in the 2024 election, and demanded that he fire the Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I do hope that Zelenskyy does the right thing. I think it was wildly inappropriate what happened, and we cannot have foreign nations interfering in our elections, and I think that's what it amounted to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, I should note, as we are taking all of this in, that Trump himself has hosted a series of world leaders, in Mar-a- Lago, in recent months and recent days, really. That includes the Prime Ministers of Qatar, Hungary and Israel.
And I'm joined now by Democratic senator, John Fetterman, of Pennsylvania.
Senator, it's great to have you here.
What is your response to House Speaker Mike Johnson, tonight, calling for -- calling for President Zelenskyy to fire the Ukrainian ambassador?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): That's, you know what the expression is like, that's even beneath the kinds of things that he have said and done. And now, that committee, incredibly ironic, because they're using that commission for absolute political kinds of things, just like that.
And I'd like to remind everybody, Trump actually filmed campaign videos, literally in the White House. So, that's absurd.
And it's insulting to the Pennsylvania workers that work as part of the foundry of the -- of the -- just where they make these kinds of munitions, that help keep Ukraine free on that.
And the President was just there, to thank those people. And now, to turn that into some kind of political thing? It's a disgrace, and I can't think anything that -- I can't say that I'm shocked. But it's just absolutely pathetic, before we all go out in session, and now get with -- before the election, they have to end on that kinds of a note.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: And what Johnson is -- Speaker Johnson is arguing is that not just because he went to visit this arms manufacturer, in your state, but the fact that he did so, with Governor Josh Shapiro, obviously, a big Harris surrogate, he's arguing that going to a swing state, this close to the election is, as he put in his letter to Zelenskyy, election interference.
Do you think that that visit had any kind of campaign undertones to it?
FETTERMAN: You'd be surprised how many people in Pennsylvania really could care less what he thinks, and even understands and knows about any of this. He's trying to turn this into an issue. And it just was Zelenskyy visiting to thank the workers that made some of the munitions that kept Ukraine free. And that's all it was. And it's just pathetic.
And remember, they are on the team that filmed campaign -- their own campaign commercials, literally in the White House, and they were proud of that kinds of things.
COLLINS: So, when the House Oversight chair -- I mean, you're in the Senate. But over in the House, the House Oversight chair, James Comer, says he's asking for documents and letters, that you don't -- do you believe that investigation is going to go anywhere?
FETTERMAN: Oh, no. Oh, no. I think, yes, just like he was going to impeach Joe Biden, and all this other stuff. It's just like, Hey, you know, like, Oh no, please, I'm begging you, please, go easy on us, Representative.
COLLINS: You know there are certainly Republicans in the Senate that still support arming Ukraine, and sending Ukraine funding, to help them. From a political perspective, though, I am curious--
FETTERMAN: Yes, that -- and any normal American would support arming Ukraine on that.
When I grew up, we all understood that Russia was the bad guys. And then Trump developed this kinds of connection with Putin. I'll never understand that. And then now, enough of the Republicans now decided to turn against Ukraine, and that's a disgrace, and that is profoundly un-American.
And I actually met with members of the Ukraine community, earlier today. And I said, I can't explain it myself. But my vote -- my vote, my voice, and we all leaned in, to deliver the kind of critical aid that helps keep Ukraine free.
And those kinds of munitions in that factory that they visited just a couple days ago, and they're trying to turn this into like a sad political theater. And like I said, it's all beneath both of them.
COLLINS: Well, and Zelenskyy seems to think it's kind of too far gone, if it is Trump and Vance who are elected. Today, he was saying to The New Yorker, that Vance is too radical, and that Trump, he was saying, essentially, doesn't know what he's talking about when he talks about ending the war.
But I do want to ask you, because Vice President Harris was in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, today, pitching voters on her plan for the economy.
And of course, I don't have to tell you that inflation is the dominant issue, in your home state, because it's 20 points above any of the other matters that voters are looking at, abortion or immigration.
Donald Trump still has the advantage, though, on inflation and the economy. Why do you think Vice President Harris hasn't been able to change that, even as inflation has been coming down?
FETTERMAN: Well, actually, inflation is down significantly. Now, that's all been addressed now. It's down back to the lowest level deck, been March of 2021 on that. And now, let's also talk about the other incredible economic things, like this stock market, and then all of the unemployment rate and all of those things.
And now, I've been saying this consistently, since 2016. It's going to be very close in Pennsylvania. And that's not going to change. And now, we're at that same conversation, and I don't have anything -- anything sexy to say about, or spicy.
It's just, I do think Harris is going to prevail. And now, it's going to be -- it's going to be close. And I can't understand why some people might want four more years, like Trump, but there are a lot of supporters of his in Pennsylvania. I witnessed that. I'm going all across Pennsylvania to talk about that.
And just, tomorrow night, I'm going to be in Butler County, to rally Democrats. And then on Saturday night, I'm going to Somerset, another red county, to rally Democrats.
And we're going all across Pennsylvania and being in the kind of rooms that no one else wants to be in, and maybe campaign. But we're going to show up, and we're going to fight for every vote across every county across Pennsylvania.
COLLINS: You mentioned that you're going to rally Democrats.
There was a moment in her speech, today, that seemed to be meant to rally maybe some Republicans. I want you to just listen to what she said today, in Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look, I am a capitalist. I believe in free and fair markets.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: I believe that most companies are working hard to do the right thing, by their customers, and the employees who depend on them. And we must work with them to grow our economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Senator, you could almost expect to hear a pro-business Republican, like a Mitt Romney of the past, saying something like that. And when she says that, and she says that she won't be constrained by ideology, is that kind of signaling enough to reach out to some disaffected Republican voters?
[21:10:00]
FETTERMAN: Yes, well, of course, that's what a normal candidate talks and the kinds of issues that they address.
And of course, Trump is talking about eating dogs and eating cats and geese. And now, could you imagine if Harris said that if I lose, it's going to be because of the Jews? I mean, the kinds of absurd things that the Republicans and Trump are saying.
And if you -- anyone that listens to any of his speeches? I wouldn't even call that. I wouldn't -- it would be a -- it would be, actually, a compliment to call he's being uncertain -- and serious. I mean, it's just bizarre rants, and it just goes in no particular direction.
And I've watched one with the Israel event. And now, when he was in Indiana, in the same county I was in just a couple days too, and I can't really make sense of what he's talking about, except he likes to say the word, beautiful, a lot of times.
And now, it's like the media has to confront this. You have one candidate -- candidacy, like Harris, talking about issues, and making an argument for a new way forward. And Trump just says bizarre things. And I -- it's a double standard. And it's absurd with some of the things that Trump is saying, and he's not being called on these things.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, Trump has said, Jews who don't vote for him should have their heads examined, Catholics who don't vote for him should have their heads examined. I mean, we've definitely covered all of that.
But on that, I'm curious. When you're out on the ground, in Pennsylvania, why is this race so close then, if it's that kind of contrast that you just painted there?
FETTERMAN: Yes, well, it's, I've been saying, I'm describing it as it's the choice. It's the choice. People that now haven't already made up their minds are going to be like, What do I want for four more years on that? And I do believe that enough people are going to realize that Harris is the kind of direction that we want to go on.
And it is going to be very close, just like what happened in 2016 and 2020, when Joe Biden happened to pull it out by 80,000 votes. That's an incredibly small margin.
And I would expect that it's going to be a small margin. No one's going to run away with it, in Pennsylvania, unless you have, like, a Mark Robinson kinds of situation, and we -- oh my gosh. But even then, I'm not sure really, there's not much left Trump can say or do to himself that he's already defiled himself with.
And now, where we're at, it's going to be close and very competitive. And that's why, for the next 40-some days, I'm going to be across, making that argument, all across Pennsylvania, in the kind of counties that we have to jam up, to make sure that Trump isn't able to create the kinds of margins that he did had in 2016, and tried to actually produce back in 2020.
COLLINS: Close and competitive. That is safe to say.
Senator John Fetterman, thank you for your time tonight.
FETTERMAN: Well, thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Also, we're hearing new reaction, from Vice President Harris, tonight, talking about what Trump said at that rally, recently, that he would be women's protector, if he is given a second term. More highlights from that rare solo interview of hers.
Also tonight, catastrophic new projections are coming in, about Hurricane Helene, as it's set to hit Florida, in just hours from now, as a Category 4 Storm. We'll have the latest for you.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In a new interview, tonight, Vice President Harris is responding to former President Donald Trump, portraying himself as the protector of women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: He said he will be the protector of women if elected. Can you respond to that?
HARRIS: So, Donald Trump is also the person who said women should be punished for exercising a decision that they rightly should be able to make about their own body and their future.
So, look, I think the thing about Donald Trump is that I don't think the women of America need him to say he's going to protect them. The women of America need him to trust them.
RUHLE: Can we trust you?
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
I am not perfect, but I will tell you, I'm always going to put the needs of the people first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And I want to get straight to THE SOURCE, tonight, with the National Co-Chair of the Harris-Walz campaign, Mitch Landrieu.
Great to have you here.
MITCH LANDRIEU, CO-CHAIR, HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN: Good to be with you. COLLINS: You heard Harris. She doesn't do a lot of interviews. And so, it was notable to hear from her. A lot of it focused on her economic plans.
What you heard from her, there tonight, as we've heard from voters, undecided voters, who say they want to know more about her, do you think she gave them enough answers in that interview?
LANDRIEU: I thought she had a great day today. She did two things. She had a very detailed, thoughtful, commonsensical approach, to her economic plan, today. And then, tonight, she sat for what everybody would consider to be a really thoughtful interview, where she answered a lots of questions, lots of details, and I think she checked a lot of boxes today.
COLLINS: Well, and when you look at that, J.D. Vance responded, and said that every time she does do an interview, he said, and this is his quote, Every time she answers a question, I think we gain about a 100,000 votes.
What do you make of--
LANDRIEU: Well.
COLLINS: --the question -- I mean, voters don't have as much -- as many questions about Trump. You can -- as you heard Fetterman saying, these are not fair comparisons here. But they do want to know more about her.
LANDRIEU: Correct. Well, I'll say two things.
The people who know Donald Trump the best like him the least. And people, who have worked for him have admonished us, and has said to us, Please don't bring him back to the Oval Office.
[21:20:00]
So, it's understandable that people want to know more about her. She has been in office, though, for over 20 years. She has an incredible record. She has traveled this country. She laid out her agenda, today, in very specific terms.
And the one thing that is really so different about these two people. Because they both talked today, they both supposedly gave economic speeches.
Trump, you could not understand, and he didn't really speak about the economy.
She gave a thoughtful, coherent advocation of what her thoughts are, about why the middle-class is going to be the mainstay of the future of America. And I think she did very well.
COLLINS: Mr. Mayor, I want you to stand by, because we are getting some breaking news just into CNN. The New York Times is now reporting that New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, has just been indicted tonight by federal prosecutors. It's still under seal, as of this hour, so we're still waiting on a lot of the details here.
But this comes as there has been a flood of resignations, in his administration. And, of course, we have seen several of them embroiled in investigations, from his administration. The phones seized by several of them, including the Police Commissioner, the School Chancellor, the Deputy Mayor, several officials in his administration.
This has all been going on, as today, we saw Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of the most prominent voices in the Democratic Party, who doesn't often get involved in the politics of New York City, on the local level, calling for Adams to resign, saying she did not see how he could continue to govern the city.
He responded to that by saying that he had not faced any charges yet. Of course, now tonight, we see that he has been indicted.
I want to get more on this breaking news with CNN Legal Analyst, Jennifer Rodgers, who is joining us.
And Jennifer, obviously, we're still waiting to learn a lot about this. But what The New York Times said is that this is coming after that federal corruption investigation. And it's just notable, given this is coming three years after he promised to help come in, to rein in corruption.
What do you make of this indictment, tonight?
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it's hard to say, Kaitlan, without seeing, of course, which of the investigations he's been indicted in.
There are, actually, I think four federal investigations going on, not necessarily into Eric Adams personally, but into either him or people in his administration. So, it's hard to comment before we know which one.
But I think it's fair to say any indictment that is faced by the Mayor is likely to result in his resignation. You just really can't run the city, and face federal criminal charges at the same time. But as for more than that, we'll just have to wait and see.
Southern District of New York has, I think, three of those investigations. The Eastern District of New York has the other one. So, whether it relates to the campaign finance allegations, or whether it relates to the potential bribery case that surrounds some of the people who are high-ranking officials, in his administration, we'll find out more when the indictment is unsealed.
COLLINS: How soon do you think that could happen? Because, I mean, that is the question here, given there has been this shroud of investigations, and phone seizures, and searches that have been happening, from people close to him. I mean, it was like a year ago that Eric Adams was last on this show, we talked about this.
How soon could we see the details of an indictment like this?
RODGERS: I think we'll see it very soon, now once that the news has broken. They probably were working on facilitating some sort of surrender instead of trying to go do an arrest, that sort of thing. So now that it's out in the open, I would expect it to happen really soon.
So, as soon as he is technically arrested, and appears in court, then the indictment will be unsealed, and we'll see what he's facing. I mean, as soon as likely tomorrow.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, that's a great question, because how do you go about indicting a mayor? What does that -- what does that look like for prosecutors behind-the-scenes?
RODGERS: It looks the same as any other case. I mean, they've been investigating, obviously collecting evidence, talking to witnesses, as we know, executing search warrants and seizing devices. They put their case together. They go into the grand jury with their witnesses.
In the federal system, you can actually use a summary witness, who can testify to hearsay. So, you can put in one agent from the FBI, who would talk about the whole investigation, everything that he or she found during the course of the investigation. Then, you ask the grand jury to vote, and you have your indictment. And from there, it's just a matter of getting your ducks in a row, to figure out how the arrest will be executed, or how the surrender will happen.
So, I think if they actually have an indictment in hand, they will have moved to the technicalities of getting him under arrest, and into court. So, that's why, I'd say, now that this news is broken, even if they were planning on doing it, a few days from now, I think they'll probably move the timeline up, and go ahead and try to do it tomorrow.
COLLINS: All right, Jennifer, stand by.
And just for our audience, we are covering this breaking news, as of this hour, as The New York Times is now reporting that the New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, has just been indicted, following a federal investigation into him. We're still waiting to learn more details, hoping to get those any minute now.
I do have Andrew Kirtzman on hand, a long-time New York City political insider.
[21:25:00]
And we've always talked a lot about Rudy Giuliani, and his downfall that's happened in recent years.
But on this news, tonight. I mean, we had you scheduled to be on the show, tonight, to talk about the wave of resignations that we're seeing happening in New York City. AOC's call for Adams to resign. What do you make of this breaking news? ANDREW KIRTZMAN, AUTHOR, "GIULIANI: THE RISE AND TRAGIC FALL OF AMERICA'S MAYOR": Well, I have never seen an administration collapse so quickly, seen just a slew of law enforcement actions. You've seen his -- the raids of his -- of his aides, his Police Commissioner quit. It has just been a steady drumbeat for the last several weeks.
So, the rumors have been swirling around Eric Adams. There have been no reports that have directly tied him to any of this. So, this indictment is, in that respect, a surprise.
COLLINS: Well, and look at this, I mean, the list. For people, who haven't been paying attention, this has kind of happened in like a drip, drip, drip fashion.
The New York City Police Department Commissioner had his phone seized. Ms. Sheena Wright, the first Deputy Mayor, phone seized. The Deputy Mayor for Public Safety, phone seized. The special adviser to him, subpoenaed. His campaign treasurer had the FBI raided her home a few months ago.
I mean, this is just pretty remarkable.
KIRTZMAN: Well, after his Police Commissioner was forced to resign, the man who Adams picked to replace him, had his home raided. I mean, this has been like--
COLLINS: Within days.
KIRTZMAN: --within days. This has been kind of a carnival of corruption going on. And New York has never seen anything like this, since the days of Jimmy Walker. I mean, Ed Koch had a scandal. But nothing that has risen to the heights of the administration, to this extent, and nothing with the kind of sweep and the breadth of it. It's pretty -- it will take your -- you know, it takes your breath away.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, I just -- Mitch Landrieu, you are here, as a Harris surrogate, so. But this is breaking news. You are the former Mayor of New Orleans.
LANDRIEU: Yes.
COLLINS: You've led a city. You know what it's like, and what happens. Just from that perspective, what do you make of this breaking news?
LANDRIEU: Well, we're just learning about this. Everybody's surprised and shocked by it, even with the information about the previous investigation. But this is really terrible news.
It's obviously terrible for him, because the Feds don't wrap somebody up, this prominent, without having substantial evidence.
But it's also terrible for the City. New York, of course, is one of the great cities of the world. This is a very traumatic thing, for a city to go through. It's going to be very hard. And they're going to -- you're going to have to fight your way through it. COLLINS: Yes, and of course, he's a retired police captain. He knows the city well. That was helped -- what helped coast him and bring him into office, when he was elected.
Mr. Mayor, stand by. Andrew as well.
Because we do have CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, here with us.
John, what are you learning about this indictment of the former New York City -- of the current New York City Mayor, I should note?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Kaitlan, as stated a moment ago, this is something that is not unexpected. This federal investigation has been going on for many months.
Voice of MILLER: It started when the Mayor was, in Washington, visiting the White House, and learned that the home of his campaign treasurer had been raided by the FBI. And since then, we've seen a flurry, in separate kind of flurries, of subpoenas, demanding records.
And what they've been looking into is allegations that the Mayor accepted either upgrades to First Class on Turkish Airlines.
MILLER: We have heard that they are investigating reports that he got free trips from the airline to multiple cities around the world, cities other than Turkey.
And that the theory of the case was that Turkish businessmen allegedly bundled campaign contributions, by having their employees make it within the legal limits, and then allegedly paying them back, particularly the owner of a construction company.
The Vice President -- or the former Vice President of Turkish Airlines was also interviewed, by the FBI, in the pre-dawn hours, and his home and devices searched.
So, this has been something building. But as you know, from prior cases, all of this hinges not on, Did you get campaign contributions? Did money go to a PAC? But was there a quid pro quo, that in return for these goods, services, benefits, that you do something.
And that has focused, allegedly, on the obtaining a Certificate of Occupancy for the Turkish Consulate, or the Turkish Mission to the United Nations, particularly before the President of Turkey arrived to do the ribbon-cutting, and red tape had to be cut from the fire department, from the buildings department, to get that done.
[21:30:00]
But in the Mayor's defense, what he's always said was, That's what you do for constituents. When they ask for a favor, you talk to the officials and say, How can this be worked out? And an arrangement was put together, where fire marshals were posted on floors. So, there must be something in this case, for this to come together, and result in a federal criminal indictment, allegedly handed up, today, to be unsealed tomorrow, that goes beyond what we've heard, that ties these things together in that conspiracy.
COLLINS: Do you think, given the web here, of other officials, in New York City, that have had their communications seized, or their homes, their offices searched? And do you think that means we could see other indictments of other officials in the New York City government?
MILLER: Yes, but Kaitlan, it's complicated, because what you've got is three or four cases here.
Case number one. The FBI investigation into the Mayor. That is what we are seeing come to fruition, with this announcement, tomorrow.
Case number two. The U.S. Attorney's investigation with other investigative agencies, including the IRS, into the activities of the Deputy Mayor's, the School Chancellor and, as you mentioned before, Timothy Pearson, this special adviser to the Mayor. And that seems to center around allegations that, particularly for migrant services and other things, that no-bid contracts were steered to friends.
And then, there is the third investigation, into the Police Commissioner, the former Police Commissioner, Ed Caban, who allegedly may have been working with his brother, in his twin brother's plot, to allegedly shake down Manhattan nightclubs, in order to decrease police enforcement.
So, that's the Mayor's case, the Deputy Mayor's case, the Police Commissioner's case. Then there's the fourth piece, which is a foreign influence case, being run by a different U.S. Attorney, in Brooklyn, into alleged foreign influence by China, by recruiting senior officials in the Mayor's office, similar to that case we saw with the governor's aide.
So, there's a traffic jam of investigations, subpoenas, searches, devices being seen. But this is the first thing we've seen that will actually result, we are told, in a charge being brought forth, tomorrow.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, just the breadth of what you just laid out, and the multi-faceted part of this investigation, this cloud that is hanging over the government, here in New York City.
I want to go to Elie Honig, our Senior Legal Analyst, who is also here joining us.
Elie, just what's your reaction to this, first off?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, Kaitlan, it's shocking to see the sitting Mayor of New York City indicted.
Important for people to understand. These are federal charges brought by the Southern District of New York. So, there is no overlap here. There is no jurisdiction that Eric Adams has over this office.
Just to give you a sense, though, of how close it will hit to home. I used to walk to the Southern District of New York. I'd walk past the Mayor's office. It's maybe 200 yards away. So, it's a very small world, down there, in Southern Manhattan.
Now, as John Miller just said, it looks like there will probably be a court appearance, tomorrow, in federal court. At that point, we, and Eric Adams, will see the indictment. So then, we'll know exactly what he's charged with.
The other thing to watch for, and we remember this a few -- from a few weeks ago, when Sean Combs was indicted in this same district, is, will there be a bail argument.
I do not think federal prosecutors will try to lock up Eric Adams. I think it's borderline impossible that they will ask that, given that he's the sitting Mayor, and even if he wasn't. But let's watch for that.
Let's see whether they agree to let Eric Adams out on bail. I think it's likely he will be bailed. But then he's going to have to contend with this indictment, either way.
COLLINS: But Elie, I mean that just -- that, in and of itself, is remarkable that you're even saying that we'll see the Mayor of New York City--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --in a courtroom, tomorrow, as this indictment is being unsealed.
Which, I should note, he gave a statement to The New York Times, tonight, and said, and I'm quoting him now, I always knew that if I stood my ground for New Yorkers, that I would be a target, and a target I became. If I am charged, I am innocent, and I will fight this with every ounce of my strength and spirit.
HONIG: Sure. And to your point, Kaitlan, not only will we see Eric Adams, the sitting Mayor, in a courtroom, tomorrow, in Lower Manhattan. We will see him sitting at the defendant's table, with his criminal defense lawyers by his side, and he will enter a plea of not guilty. He will be advised of the charges, against him, in the indictment.
As to his claim that he's being targeted because he's the Mayor? New York City has had mayors for hundreds and hundreds of years. Of course, he is the first one to be charged, while sitting in office. So, that sounds like a stretch to me, but--
COLLINS: Is that true, he's the first one to ever be charged while sitting in office?
HONIG: He's the first -- he's the first sitting Mayor to be charged, in New York City, in the history of this city. And Kaitlan, by the way, one thing I should add here. The Southern District of New York, the office that's prosecuting this, federal prosecutors, has a long history of prosecuting corruption crimes, in the City and the State of New York.
[21:35:00]
Just within the last several years, the SDNY has successfully prosecuted the top Democrat, in the New York State Assembly, Sheldon Silver, and the top Republican in the New York State Senate, a guy named Dean Skelos.
So, the Southern District of New York knows how to do these corruption cases. They usually have them buttoned up by the time they get to this point of an indictment.
COLLINS: Well, walk us through what this looks like, if you are a prosecutor, in the Southern District of New York, and you're leading up to this.
Obviously, prosecutors should use discretion with every indictment that they bring. But to indict a sitting Mayor of New York City, which as you noted, has never happened in the history of New York City. I mean, what is the bar like, for something like that?
HONIG: I'm going to put this real unscientifically for you. If you're going to charge the sitting Mayor of New York City, you better be damn sure that you have the evidence on him. Because if you don't, it will be a disaster.
Now, look, as John Miller laid out, there were a lot of indicators, not so subtle indicators, over the last several months, pointing in this direction. A series of subpoenas, search warrants, charges of other people around the Mayor.
But the big question that we now have an answer to is, were prosecutors going to be able to link all that to the top guy, to the Mayor?
It does happen sometimes, that you're investigating a case, and you have a lot of smoke around an individual, but you can't necessarily tie the key player, the boss, the Mayor, whoever it may be, into that criminality.
But we now know that the SDNY does believe it can do that, and ultimately prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, to a unanimous jury, by the way, of New Yorkers, of a jury pool that will be drawn from Manhattan, and the Bronx, and the other northern counties. So, man, they better be darn sure, in this charge, if they're going to bring it.
COLLINS: Yes. Elie Honig, stand by.
Because we are continuing to get updates, by the moment here.
I want to go back to John Miller, who is with us, also, as we are just getting this news in.
And John Miller, can we just talk more about the investigations themselves, and what this looks like, and the fact of the allegations regarding what he -- any gifts he accepted, or what he accepted from Turkish officials, in exchange for official government business, and what that looks like.
As they're getting the phones, and whatnot of other officials around him. I mean, what do we know about what they would after go -- go after the Mayor's device himself? Would they take a step like that, as they're pulling together an investigation like this?
MILLER: Well, Kaitlan, as you remember, in something that was equally unprecedented, the -- after searching his campaign treasurer's home. The Mayor came back from that trip to Washington, and then two days later, was approached by FBI agents, on the street, who separated him from his security detail. Highly unusual.
Then asked for and seized his phone, his other phone. City Hall then turned over a iPad and another device, voluntarily after that. So, they've been going through that. What does that mean? That means that they have access, through subpoena, to his telephone records, text messages, emails, things like that.
But I think from an investigative standpoint, when they did that, they wanted to get into that phone, to say what lives just on that device. Are there notes in there? Are there apps that they can't access because they are encrypted, by using subpoenas to the provider that they can see things on Telegram or Signal or WhatsApp and so on. So, they have been through his devices, during a period contemporaneous with this.
But two other points important for right now. One, we will learn about these charges, tomorrow, when they unseal this indictment, and bring it forward.
It is not entirely clear whether the Mayor will be in court, tomorrow. Or whether they'll unseal the charges, and then by arrangements, understanding that he is the Mayor of the largest city in America, and has a very important role to play, and is innocent until proven guilty, that they may have to schedule an appearance, possibly before someday next week, where he goes before a magistrate, and answers these charges in an initial appearance.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a great question of what this looks like, because clearly he's making it obvious, in his statement, tonight, he wants to fight whatever charges are coming.
John Miller, standby. I want everyone--
MILLER: And Kaitlan, I think his--
COLLINS: Go ahead. Go ahead, John.
MILLER: --his statement, tonight, tells us a clue to the defense, which is, I stood up for New York. So, what we get there is that preview, which is, I yelled at the White House, I fought Washington, and suddenly I'm the target. That's the preview we're getting by that statement.
COLLINS: Yes, it seems like a sign of a defense to come.
John Miller, stand by.
Because we're getting breaking news every minute of this hour, as we are now learning that the New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, has been indicted, according to The New York Times.
We're going to have more for you. We're going to take a quick break.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Back more with our breaking news, this hour, as CNN has now confirmed that New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, has been indicted on at least one federal charge, according to our sources.
Right now, this indictment is still under seal, so we're talking to those sources to try to find out more about this indictment. But what we do know is that this comes after a months-long federal investigation, into campaign fundraising violations and foreign influence.
The Mayor is expected to have several days, to turn himself in, we are told.
[21:45:00]
And I should note, he's previously denied any wrongdoing. And tonight, in a statement, Eric Adams says this. Quote, "If I am charged, I am innocent and I will fight this with every ounce of my strength and spirit."
We've got a slew of political experts, and New York City reporters, here with us, tonight, as we are covering this breaking news.
Elie Honig, I want to start with you.
Just given what we were just talking about, the idea of Mayor Adams having to turn himself in. We're hearing from sources that he would have several days to do so.
You referenced an investigation into Sean "Diddy" Combs that we saw play out, where he was arrested himself.
How does that work out behind-the-scenes, where they make this decision of letting the person turn themselves in, or going out and actually arresting them?
HONIG: It's a good question, Kaitlan. So, the short answer is, it's always subject to negotiation. As the prosecutor, you can really make one of two decisions. First of all, we have to grab this person, put hands on this person, right now. He's a danger. He's a risk of flight. That was clearly the decision that was made, with Sean Combs, a couple weeks ago.
Alternatively, you can decide, this person's not going to flee, this person's not an ongoing danger to the community.
Voice of HONIG: In which case you can negotiate a surrender, and a court appearance, a few days down the line. It appears from the reporting you just talked about that that's the way this one looks like it's going. I think it makes sense.
I don't think there's any realistic way Eric Adams could flee. And I think given that there's an indictment, it would be incredibly foolish of him, to try to commit some other crime or obstruct justice.
COLLINS: And John Miller is also standing by with us.
John Miller, can we just, for those who are just joining us, on this breaking news, and are stunned by the fact that this is the first time a sitting Mayor of New York City has been indicted while in office.
Walk us through just the main piece of this investigation that we know, as they were looking into to foreign influence, and foreign ties, in the Mayor and those around him.
MILLER: So, this began, many months ago, with a series of search warrants against people connected to the Mayor.
Voice of MILLER: The key search warrants was at the home of a woman, named Brianna Suggs, who was his campaign finance manager.
MILLER: She controlled about $19 million in contribution.
Another search was done at the home of a Turkish businessman, the owner of KSK Construction, where they were looking for evidence--
Voice of MILLER: --that he, as the owner of the business, had gotten employees to bundle campaign contributions to the Mayor, which he then reimbursed them for, allegedly, in violation of campaign finance laws.
In the meantime, we've seen other City Hall officials, from the Mayor's office--
MILLER: --including an individual named Rana -- and I'll get to that last name -- his liaison to the Turkish community and the United Nations, also have search warrants and subpoenas issued.
The Mayor's office dismissed her, saying she had allegedly asked other people to get rid of records.
So, we've been on this slow bill. But the essence of the case, Kaitlan, is that between a cadre of Turkish businessmen, and the Turkish government, the Mayor received free airline tickets, free upgrades to First Class, trips around the world, and may have allegedly pushed the influence of the Mayor's office to get a Certificate of Occupancy for the Turkish--
COLLINS: Yes.
MILLER: --Mission to the United Nations, which the President of Turkey wanted to cut the ribbon for.
So, what we see here is a lot of allegations, a lot of smoke. What we have not heard, in any of this discussion, is anything about what the quid pro quo was, If you do this, I'll do that, which is almost required, to bring a bribery -- a bribery charge, or anything about a bag of money.
COLLINS: Yes.
MILLER: A lot of this is stuff that occurs in the course of politics, which is why the Mayor has come out swinging, tonight, saying, If I stood up for New York, I knew they would come for me, in essence.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously we'll want to see closely, what they lay out, in this indictment. Obviously, they'll often cite the allegations, pieces of evidence there.
Stand by, John Miller.
Because we kind of have the perfect person to ask about this, tonight. It's the former Mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio, who is joining us.
Mr. Mayor, just first, your reaction to the first time, a sitting Mayor of New York City has ever been indicted, tonight.
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Kaitlan, I have two reactions and they probably sound kind of different from each other. One is, of course, shock and concern for our city. And then another is a very strong reminder that innocent until proven guilty is the American way.
And I went through an experience, with the Southern District, where I saw a lot of things that did not come true, despite allegations.
[21:50:00]
I do think we have to be really careful here. We haven't seen anything specific. We don't know what this is yet. We haven't heard a defense.
So, I'm feeling very, you know, two different feelings, at this moment.
COLLINS: Yes, and that is an important reminder. Of course, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
And Mayor Adams is making clear, in his statement, tonight, in response to this indictment, that he will fight, he says, if he's charged. Obviously, it looks like that is imminent, in this situation.
But Mr. Mayor, just as someone, who ran this city and governed it. To see what we have seen, since last November, when that first search of an aide's home happened, to what we've seen happen. It's almost head- spinning to try to keep up with who's resigning, whose phone is being seized, whose home is being searched, in recent days. New people are being hired, and within days of being hired, their phones have been seized by investigators.
Just speaking to that, that is obviously not normal. And that is how the Adams administration has tried to portray this, as just staff turnover. I think you can speak to the fact that that's certainly not what you're used to seeing.
DE BLASIO: No, it's painful to watch, is the truth, and it's very worrisome.
I think, first, we owe to the Mayor, again, the presumption of innocence, because that's how our system works.
And again, I'd emphasize, I have seen from prosecutors, at time, ambition and other factors that led them to do things that turned out not to be the whole truth. So, I don't think we should say, because a prosecutor does something that's the whole story. That's why we have a court system.
But that said, I respect the Mayor. I think it is absolutely urgent that he stabilize things, that he give New Yorkers a clear message, about how he's going to make sure that the administration is strengthened at this difficult moment. He can do that. A Mayor or any leader could do that in a moment of crisis.
But it takes leveling with people and saying, Yes, we have a tough situation here, not sugar-coating it, But here's what I'm going to do to fix it. Here's what I'm going to do to handle it, so that everyday- New-Yorkers' needs are taken care of.
COLLINS: And obviously, the primaries are coming up in New York. This is in a political season.
I mean, you've done this job, and you could speak to just how difficult it is, how wide-ranging it is. Can you do that job, if you're under federal investigation -- federal indictment, I should say?
DE BLASIO: Well, I think it's a valid question. But it also begs the point I'm raising, that if someone's accused of something, and they didn't do it, that's not a reason for them to lose their job. So, the real question here is, what's the underlying truth.
Again, I'm coming at it with two very different perspectives. One, deep concern for the city, and recognizing how hard it is to do the job, even in the best of times.
But two, at one point, Kaitlan, in 2016, my administration was undergoing five simultaneous investigations, which resulted in literally nothing, no indictments, no charges, no, nothing. So -- and we, for a year, we lost an immense amount of time and energy, dealing with that. But in the end, there was nothing there. So, I think it's a -- I'm sorry to give you a nuanced position, but it's the truth. If he truly believes he's innocent, he has a right to stand up, and say that, and keep his job. But he does owe it to New Yorkers, to explain how he's going to navigate that reality, and provide the leadership we need. It's possible.
COLLINS: Yes.
DE BLASIO: But he has to be really clear about how he's going to do it.
COLLINS: You're allowed to have nuance, on cable news, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for joining us, on this.
DE BLASIO: I like that about you, Kaitlan. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you for joining us. I mean, it is just, it's stunning news, and I think you're the perfect person to hear from. Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor, Bill de Blasio.
We're going to take a quick break. But we're going to have more, on this stunning indictment, of the sitting Mayor of New York City, something that's never happened, right after this.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Back with our breaking news tonight, as CNN has now confirmed that New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, has been -- has been indicted, on at least one federal charge, according to two sources to CNN, tonight.
That comes as that indictment is still under seal and could be revealed as soon as tomorrow. And follows a months-long federal investigation into campaign fundraising violations and foreign influence.
I should note, we are told tonight the Mayor is expected to have several days, to turn himself in. And he has denied any wrongdoing. Tonight, he says, quote, If I am charged, I am innocent, and I will fight this with every ounce of my strength and spirit.
I do have Andrew Kirtzman, still here with me, a long-time New York City political journalist and consultant.
Can we just first talk about, you know, we heard from former New York City Mayor, de Blasio, saying -- and everyone's it runs innocent until proven guilty.
KIRTZMAN: Right.
COLLINS: He's kind of holding his fire on this.
But Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called on Eric Adams to resign today.
There is going to be a million questions for Governor Hochul, for Senator Schumer, for Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who's very close to Adams, to all weigh in on whether they think he should resign.
KIRTZMAN: Right, and that's exactly right. And I think it's going to be a fascinating political situation, and a very tense one.
So, Eric Adams is only the second Black Mayor of New York City, and he has never been reluctant to play the race card, whenever attacked, and whenever accused of any ethical transgression, of which there have been many instances. He just played it today, when AOC called for his resignation. It's going to put a lot of White politicians on guard.
[22:00:00]
And it's going to be a lot of pressure on Chuck Schumer, on Kathy Hochul, the governor, and on President Biden, right? President Biden called on Cuomo to resign, and there weren't even criminal charges against him. We'll see what happens.
COLLINS: Yes. And I should note, President Biden was here, in New York City, today. They were both at the Met. We don't know if they actually spoke.
But we'll be watching all this closely.
Andrew Kirtzman, thank you for being here with us, on this breaking news, tonight.
KIRTZMAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Great to have you.
Thank you all so much for joining us, on this breaking news.
We'll continue our coverage, right now, with "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."
