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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Attacks Biden, Harris With False Claims Over Helene Response; IDF: Israel Begins "Limited Ground Operation" Into Lebanon; Jeff Flake Joins Growing List Of Republicans Backing Harris. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired September 30, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: --so much of this is symbolism. There's the symbolism of politics, and there's going to be the actual impact on the votes. So, I think it's almost two different things.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
MOWERS: Donald Trump, to this point, is winning the symbolism. The impact is going to be pretty dramatic--
A. COOPER: Yes.
MOWERS: --for a number of those folks. And whether they can even show up to vote, that's going to be a big challenge for them, in a few weeks. They're going to figure out power and the rest of it.
A. COOPER: Matt Mowers. Ashley Etienne. David Axelrod. Thanks very much.
Programming note. Join us for CNN Special Event, the Vice Presidential Debate Simulcast, hosted by CBS News, airing live, tomorrow night, 09:00 p.m Eastern, right here on CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. No problem.
A. COOPER: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talk to you soon. Bye.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
An angry President Biden responds to Donald Trump, accusing him of lying about the government's response to Hurricane Helene. Politics colliding with a natural disaster, as officials are still searching for survivors tonight.
Meanwhile, Israel has just launched a ground offensive into Lebanon, where airstrikes are lighting up the skies, from Beirut to Damascus, where CNN teams are live in the Middle East. And as Trump is calling for the police to get violent, and calling his opponent, and I'm quoting him now, "Mentally disabled." A big-name Republican will join me, as he's endorsing Vice President Harris.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, one of the deadliest storms, in our nation's history, is colliding with the closest election in modern history.
But we cannot let that eclipse what is happening tonight, inside these states, inside North Carolina and Georgia. That is that hundreds of people who are still missing or unaccounted for, this evening. The death toll has now risen to 128 people, across six different states, in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene.
The devastation seems almost endless. Entire neighborhoods have been wiped off the map. Millions of people still don't have any power. They're also struggling to get food or even water, tonight.
None of that stopped Donald Trump from going into the storm zone, today, in hard-hit Valdosta, Georgia, where he made this promise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Our country is in the final weeks of a hard-fought national election. But in a time like this, when a crisis hits, when our fellow citizens cry out, in need, none of that matters. We are not talking about politics now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But we ultimately did end up talking about politics, when Donald Trump made this claim, which I should note, was quickly proven false by Georgia's Republican governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The governor is doing a very good job. He's having a hard time getting the President on the phone. I guess they're not -- they're not being responsive. The federal government is not being responsive.
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): The President just called me yesterday afternoon. I missed him and called him right back. And he just said, Hey, what do you need? And I told him, you know, We got what we need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As he was on the way to Georgia, Trump also baselessly accused the federal government, of avoiding helping people, in Republican areas.
An accusation that when President Biden was asked about it clearly incensed him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He's lying. And the governor told him he was lying. The governor told me he was lying. I've spoken to the governor, I spent time with him, and he told me he's lying. I don't know why he does this.
And the reason I get so angry about it, I don't care about what he says about me. But I care what he -- what he communicates to the people that are in need. Implies that we're not doing everything possible. We are.
So, it is simply not true. It is irresponsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump also criticized Vice President Harris, for being out on the West Coast, campaigning over the weekend, despite how I should note, he also was holding rallies in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
Harris ultimately cut that trip short and returned to Washington, earlier today, and went to a briefing at the FEMA headquarters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I plan to be on the ground as soon as possible. But as soon as possible without disrupting any emergency response operations, because that must be the highest priority and the first order of business.
To everyone who has been impacted by this storm. President Biden and I, and all of the folks behind me, are with you. We will continue to do everything we can, to help you recover, and to help you rebuild, no matter how long it takes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to get right to the latest, on the recovery, that's happening in Asheville, North Carolina, tonight.
Mayor Esther Manheimer joins me now.
And Mayor, thank you for taking the time to join us. I know it's been a long few days for you, and for your community.
Just as of tonight, can you tell us how desperate is your situation, and what are your biggest needs right now.
MAYOR ESTHER MANHEIMER, ASHEVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA: We are still in crisis mode, here in our community. We are still looking for survivors, and confirming others have made it through the storm.
We have folks that are in areas, where the roads have washed out, and the bridges have washed out. So, getting confirmation about people, whether or not they're made it through this storm or not, is challenging in some of those remote parts.
[21:05:00] And on top of that, we have a lack of cell service. So, folks can't get on their phone and just call a loved one and say, Let everyone know I'm OK. We're not able to do that.
But we've seen an incredible system across our city, and our county, of making sure everyone is accounted for, and that -- but that's taking some time. As you've said, there's still several hundred people that we need to make sure are OK. And that process hasn't finished yet.
COLLINS: So, you still have 700 people that are unaccounted for, as of this hour?
MANHEIMER: It's, as of this afternoon, I think it was around 600. That number may have changed at this point. But it was still a lot of folks that we need to be able to -- to be able to reach. And so, that is the priority.
But we also are in a situation, where we don't have water and power in most areas. And we do need resources, like drinking water and food and other household supplies and personal supplies that people might need. If they're children, formula, diapers, all the sorts of things that you need just on a day-to-day level to get through.
COLLINS: I mean, to hear you say that some 600 people are still unaccounted for, that the people you can find are having trouble getting water and food, they don't have cell service.
The New York Times put out a story earlier that just north of where you are, in Marshall, North Carolina, a 75-year-old man was forced to cling to a tree for hours, because his house was destroyed by the flooding, and his loved ones were looking on. And eventually, he couldn't hold on any longer, and they couldn't -- they couldn't save him.
And I just -- I just can't even imagine what it's like to be in your position, in this moment, right now.
MANHEIMER: We have, in our city, never seen the rivers as high as they were in this flood. There is no historic record that shows that they have ever been this high. The flooding we're seeing is catastrophic.
And our first responders have been doing an incredible job. The number of Swiftwater rescues they've had to do is unprecedented. I can't -- the pictures don't do it justice. And that's why, when the President called me today -- he's going to be here, on Wednesday, flying over the community, so he can see the magnitude of the damage to our city.
We can't let him fly in, because the only highway into Asheville, of the four highways into Asheville that's open, is the one near our airport, and we can't shut it down for a motorcade. So, we're glad that he's going to be able to be here and see the community from the air, see the devastation.
We are going to need -- we are going to need federal help to rebuild. And right now, we have federal help on an emergency basis, bringing in resources, as well as the state. Our governor was here today. It's all hands on deck. Everyone is helping. And our community is rallying with volunteers to help distribute the things that our community needs.
COLLINS: So, President Biden will be there on Wednesday. But, as you noted, that's important there that you're saying he's unable to actually drive in, because there is that one road from the airport. So instead, he'll be getting an aerial tour of that.
Mayor Manheimer, I just -- thank you so much. I know it's been a long few days. I really appreciate you.
MANHEIMER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And I just want you to know we're all thinking of all of you, in North Carolina, tonight.
MANHEIMER: Thank you. Thank you very much.
COLLINS: Absolutely.
And I want to bring in my panel of political experts, because there is a political factor in this storm.
And Van, you just heard her talking about the difficulty in getting the federal presence there, on the ground, besides FEMA, actually having a presidential visit.
Roy Cooper, the Governor of North Carolina, was asked by Anderson, earlier, about this claim that the federal government's not doing enough, and not having enough of a presence here. Listen to what he had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROY COOPER (D-NC): It makes no difference who you are. If you need help, we are going to provide it. And if there is ever a time, where we all need to come together, and put politics aside, it is now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Look, I know people in North Carolina. You know, I'm from Tennessee. I have friends there. I have family there. It's a horrifying time. And people on the ground are coming together.
That's what -- Americans in situations like this show our best selves, except for Donald Trump saying mean, dumb things that make people think that the country is worse than it is. And that's not what he should be doing.
I mean, I have a friend, whose mom was stuck across basically a river that used to be a neighborhood until just a few hours ago. I mean, this is real stuff in real-time.
[21:10:00] You don't need to be spreading fear and panic. You should be encouraging everybody to come together. You should be standing -- Trump should be standing with Biden and Kamala, right now, to show that we are one country in a crisis like this.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Lee Zeldin, as you look at this, you're a close ally of former President Trump's. It is a moment where 128 people have been killed, and that is the focus.
But it's also now turning to Trump saying that Biden's not calling Kemp, even though Kemp himself is saying, I talked to him last night about this, the federal government is helping us, telling us, whatever we need we can get.
LEE ZELDIN, (R) FORMER NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN: First off, the 600 number is just shocking.
JONES: Yes.
ZELDIN: And I'm sure, for everyone who's listening, they -- that you know that that's not an account of the entire jurisdiction of all the states. That's just Asheville.
COLLINS: Yes.
ZELDIN: And for the people who live in Asheville, and those surrounding communities that are impacted, they're not thinking about November 5th. They're not thinking about Republican, Democrat. They're trying to survive, trying to find their loved ones, and take inventory of what they lost.
I went through Superstorm Sandy.
JONES: Yes.
ZELDIN: Here in New York. And we have a lot of fellow Americans in a lot of pain.
The fact is, ballots are now out, in different states. In outside of these targeted areas, there are a lot of people thinking about politics, who weren't even thinking about it until recently, and they're getting ready to cast their vote. I do think that this is something that as November 5th approaches, we are going to be talking more and more about what took place.
And I think that there is going to be a need for North Carolina and other areas to get help from the federal government. And I would encourage legislators, on both sides of the aisle, from across the country, to rally together. And it might require coming back to Congress, to do so.
If I was over -- over-analyzing so far. I mean, listen, there was a -- there was a decision that was made, by President Biden, over the course of the last -- over the weekend. He was not at the White House. Kamala Harris is campaigning for President of the United States. She would rally-- COLLINS: Donald Trump was also campaigning.
ZELDIN: And Kamala Harris was rallying in Las Vegas.
And there's a pre-positioning of assets they'll get done in Florida and Georgia, because usually that's the area they'll get impacted the most. And then, it went inland to a place that is more shocked that they got hit as hard as they were. And we'll learn more about where assets were placed and why. He--
COLLINS: But that doesn't explain why Donald Trump is saying that Trump is not -- or that Biden's not speaking to the Governor of Georgia, when he is speaking to him.
ZELDIN: I mean, if we're going to talk--
COLLINS: Alyssa. And I think that's a fair point that people aren't thinking about November 5th. They're thinking about, How do I get food and water and baby formula?
But generally, when you look at this, it is a test of leadership in these moments. And this leadership style is on display, today, of what's happening in a crisis.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Right. And moments of crisis underscore who truly leaders are.
And to Lee Zeldin's point, there's very likely going to need to be a congressional supplemental. This is something that's already reached Hurricane Sandy levels. It could be as devastating or near as Katrina.
This is something that's going to require serious-minded people, to reach across the aisle, to advocate for the people who've been harmed, for the property damage and the years of reconstruction that's going to have to come.
Donald Trump, oftentimes, is not a person, who rises to those moments and those moments of crisis. He showed up, but he said the wrong things. And showing up is only half the job. Getting it done and providing for people is.
Now, I never like the idea of turning a crisis into a political moment. I've been on more disaster recovery missions than I'd ever like to, with the former Vice President. They never like when you come to town. It doesn't help. It distracts resources.
But there is a way to show up and to show leadership and that you're paying attention, without lying and making it political the way that he did.
COLLINS: Yes, a lot more on the 2024 race to get to tonight. We're going to talk about that in a moment.
But up next. We have breaking news that we're going to take you to, in the Middle East, because there are airstrikes happening right now near Beirut, as Israeli forces are begun, what Israel is calling a limited, targeted ground operation. We'll take a closer look at what's happening inside Lebanon.
Also tonight, a former prominent figure, in the Republican Party, is going to join me, after he endorsed Vice President Harris.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some breaking news this hour, as Israel's military has launched what it is describing as a quote, "Limited ground operation" into Lebanon.
You're seeing right here, as the IDF has begun sending forces, across its northern border, moments after Israel's Security Cabinet approved the next phase of this war with the Iran-backed terror group, Hezbollah.
This is all coming after Israel has killed many of Hezbollah's top leaders, and destroyed some of the places where it stores its weapons.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins me now, from Israel, near that border with Lebanon.
Jeremy, just tell us what you're seeing, on the ground, tonight, and what you're hearing from sources about what this actually is going to look like.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, for the first time in nearly two decades, the Israeli military is confirming that they have sent a ground force into southern Lebanon, to go after Hezbollah positions.
And we have been hearing, over the course of the last several hours, the steady thud of artillery being fired from near our position, in northern Israel, just a few miles away from the Lebanese border, into southern Lebanon.
We have seen some of those explosions. We have seen flares, in the air, to light the path, for those Israeli ground troops that are going into southern Lebanon, going after Hezbollah positions, we're told, in the villages along that Israel-Lebanon border.
The Israeli military is taking pains to describe this as a limited operation. They say that these are limited, localized and targeted ground raids.
But make no mistake. This is a ground offensive of the kind that we have wondered whether or not this conflict between Israel and Hezbollah would escalate to this point. And tonight, it certainly has, as the Israeli Security Cabinet approved the entry of ground forces, into Lebanon, and now those operations being carried out.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: All right, Jeremy Diamond, near that border with Lebanon. Keep us updated on what you're seeing throughout this hour.
Also here tonight, on these latest moves by Israel, Dan Senor, who was a former foreign policy adviser in the George W. Bush administration. Also, the Author of "The Genius of Israel."
Dan, we've had a lot of conversations, since October 7th, about what is happening in Israel. First in Gaza. Now we're seeing what's happening in Lebanon.
What do you make of the impact of them sending Israeli forces across the border, tonight?
DAN SENOR, FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER, GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION, AUTHOR, "THE GENIUS OF ISRAEL," HOST, "CALL ME BACK" PODCAST: You were in Israel, right after October 7th. And you saw the proximity in those southern communities to Gaza, to Hamas-run Gaza, like less than a mile, a couple miles away.
COLLINS: Yes, you can see them from the backyard.
SENOR: Exactly.
So, if you then go to northern Israel, you have about 70,000 Israeli citizens who have had to evacuate their communities, in places like Metula and Kiryat Shmona, in towns and villages and moshavim, all across northern Israel, because they feared that there's an October 7th in the works coming from the north, that Hezbollah had in fact been planning some kind of October 7th-like attack in the Upper Galilee.
So, what Israel has been doing over the last few weeks is wiping out, trying to wipe out, decimate, not only the leadership of Hezbollah. But the infrastructure, the rocket infrastructure, the drones, the missiles. They estimate somewhere between 50 and 70 percent of that inventory has been wiped out.
It still doesn't deal with the threat that Hezbollah operatives can still roll right into northern Israel, right through tunnels, just like you say you could see from southern -- from southern Israel, right into Gaza. From northern Israel, you look there right now, you see Hezbollah flags, if you're sitting in those towns. And the fear that there'd be another attack of that sort.
And Israel can't get into that infrastructure, ultimately, without sending in some ground forces. I think it's more limited than is being reported right now. But it is an operation.
COLLINS: So, they are taking pains, as Jeremy noted, to say that this is very limited.
But Israel has also amassed thousands of forces on the border. I mean, there is -- don't you think there's a real possibility this could be much bigger and longer, potentially, than what we're hearing tonight?
SENOR: I'm skeptical, only because Prime Minister Netanyahu, for years, has been averse to taking a major ground operation force, especially in the north, in southern Lebanon. A lot of lessons from the 2006 Lebanon War that went on for 34 days. It was very messy for Israel.
And I think Israel's demonstrated both with the pager attack, with the hit against Hassan Nasrallah, that it can do a lot of things in different parts of Lebanon that don't involve ground forces. So, I think the whole world is going to get fixated on the ground forces. I would keep an eye on some other surprises that I think Israel may be working on.
COLLINS: Like what?
SENOR: I don't know -- I'm just -- I'm just basing this on how they've operated last few weeks. The way they've operated over the last few weeks is keep people guessing. Everyone's looking over there, and then they do this. Everyone's looking over here, and then they take out Haniyeh in Tehran. So there's just -- one thing we've seen is a lot of surprises. I wouldn't be surprised.
COLLINS: Well, they've clearly shaken Hezbollah leadership, but also Iranian leadership.
I mean, the Supreme Leader, Reuters is reporting tonight that, he has been taken basically underground, that he's in a secure location with heightened security measures. I mean, basically, he's in hiding, because very clearly they fear for his life that he could be targeted next.
I mean, how is Iran watching all this play out tonight?
SENOR: So, there's two real risks to the Iranian leadership, right now. Three risks.
One is they have had Hezbollah as a loaded gun, pointed at Israel, for basically the last couple of decades. And they've been basically saying, Try anything with us, and we can light up this force on your northern border that has 200,000 rockets, other projectiles that can go right into central Israel. We can light that up at a time of our choosing. What Israel has done, over the last few weeks, is slowly taken that gun off the table, at least that loaded gun. So, A, they don't have that deterrent against Israel anymore, A.
B, what the attack against Haniyeh, the operation that took out Ismail Haniyeh, in Tehran, and the equivalent of the Blair House, in Tehran, eight, nine weeks ago, it rattled the Iranian leadership, because they were like, How did the Israeli intelligence get so deep into our organization, so deep into our capital? Haniyeh had been with the Supreme Leader earlier that day. They're thinking, My gosh, is it--
COLLINS: He was that close.
SENOR: Right. And so, they are now -- and they're watching all these operations that Israel's doing against the leaders of Hezbollah, and they're wondering, Is anybody safe?
And they're just scared. They don't know who to trust. They've jammed up the communications capabilities, because they don't know who they can talk to, who's listening, and signal--
COLLINS: And when you say the Blair House, that's the house right across the street from the White House.
SENOR: Right.
COLLINS: It's where foreign leaders come and stay, dignitaries, Winston Churchill, they've all stayed there. It's essentially right there.
SENOR: President -- the Prime Minister will stay there today.
And Israel's operation against Haniyeh was at the -- the equivalent of that guesthouse, a VIP guesthouse for visiting dignitaries, on the day that the new President of Iran, is being sworn in.
The message is, if Israel can do that, if it could locate Hassan Nasrallah, in Lebanon, if it could do all the pager attack, they just are realizing Israel has the signal capabilities that they didn't realize Israel had. They're all looking all over their shoulder, right now. And the whole leadership of Iran and Hezbollah is destabilized.
Now, we'll see what happens. But they're definitely thrown off kilter.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and we'll keep a close eye on what's happening in Lebanon, tonight.
Dan Senor, thank you for that.
Up next. A notable Republican, from a critical state in this election, and every election, pretty much. Former Republican senator and Ambassador Jeff Flake is now throwing his support behind Vice President Harris. Why he's voting for a Democrat. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're witnessing something in this presidential election that did not happen the last two times that Donald Trump ran. At least not in the way that it's happening now.
[21:30:00]
In 2016 and 2020, certainly some prominent Republicans criticized him, but not many, not in a big group.
This time though, we're seeing a slew of notable names, on the right, outright endorsing the Democratic nominee, this time. Tonight, that list is growing.
Because first, we saw the Vice President's team reward some of them with coveted speaking spots at the Democratic National Convention.
We've also seen endorsements from Republican dynasties, families that for decades have represented the core of the conservative movement, whether it's the late Senator John McCain's son, or Liz and Dick Cheney themselves.
My source tonight is adding his name to that list. Jeff Flake spent nearly two decades as a Republican, on Capitol Hill, representing Arizona, in the House and in the Senate, before serving until recently, as the U.S. Ambassador to Turkey. And he joins me now.
Ambassador, it's great to have you.
When you look at this, and your endorsement of Vice President Harris, what is it that leads a Republican, who represented Arizona for so long, to endorse a Democrat for that office?
JEFF FLAKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY, (R) FORMER ARIZONA SENATOR: Well, one, conservatives -- and I'm a conservative Republican, not a moderate Republican. Conservatives believe in the rule of law, right? We want to preserve traditions. That's what conservatives do. And at the top of that is the rule of law.
And when you have a president lose an election, and then try to use the powers of the presidency to hold on, after being turned out by the voters? That is a big violation of the rule of law, and I don't see how I could support that President.
COLLINS: What is it about a potential second Trump term that worries you the most?
FLAKE: Well, the same as with the first one. I mean, I had problems from the very beginning when Donald Trump in what was it, 2012, when Barack Obama came in, earlier than that, the whole birther issue. And then it went on from that.
And the positions that the President -- former President, took just weren't very conservative. Certainly, no free trade, limited governments, we had a lot of spending.
So it's -- and let me just say, there's a long and storied tradition of Republicans supporting Democrats, when occasion arises.
In 1991, when there was a Republican, a troublesome Republican, in Louisiana? George H. W. Bush went and campaigned for the Democrat. So did several U.S. Republican senators.
And Barry Goldwater, Mr. Conservative himself, supported a Democrat running for Congress in Arizona, because he knew that that Democrat would probably be beaten the next time. But in the meantime, the Republican wouldn't have represented the party well. And that's the situation we're in today.
COLLINS: I mean, that '91 race that you're talking about, that was when David Duke was running for--
FLAKE: That's correct.
COLLINS: --for Governor of North Carolina -- of Louisiana, excuse me. I mean, do you see similarities between that race and this one? FLAKE: Not in the type. Not in the racism. Certainly I'm not making that allegation at all. But if you remember -- and the Democrat that was running as well had been indicted, on corruption charges. The bumper stickers at that time were, Vote for the Crook.
It's important that what I'm saying here is that if you have a Republican that is going to take Republicans down the wrong path, and if you have a Republican, like I said, who loses an election, a free and fair election, and then tries to use the powers of the presidency to hold on to power? Then that's a threshold issue.
And I think that we Republicans ought to say, Let's turn the page. Let's move on, even if we have a Democrat in the meantime. And that's--
COLLINS: It's so--
FLAKE: So that's where I am.
COLLINS: Well, it's so interesting to hear you say that, because a lot of people, who are watching this show, and have watched it, are familiar with Republicans who come on, who say Donald Trump is not fit for office, but I like his policies better than I like Harris'.
FLAKE: Right.
COLLINS: I mean, I think the first, maybe most prominent, is the former Attorney General, Bill Barr, who has certainly argued that.
I wonder, what do you say to those Republicans, who argue that because they like his policies better than hers, that it's worth voting for him, even if they think he's not fit for office?
FLAKE: Well, all of us face that. As Republicans, we say, Well, I'm not going to vote for the former President, we have a lot of people saying that, But I just can't bring myself to vote for a Democrat.
And in 2016, I voted for a third-party candidate. 2020, I voted for Joe Biden. And I've thought since 2016, you need to not just lodge a protest vote. You have to vote for the alternative. And so, that's what I've done. And I think that that -- I'm not telling my fellow Republicans what to do. But that's what I think should be done.
COLLINS: But in your view, if you're not voting for Donald Trump, but also not voting for Harris, you view it as a waste of vote?
[21:35:00]
FLAKE: It can be seen that way.
And like I say, I know Kamala Harris, I know Tim Walz. And I think that they would represent, frankly, conservative values better than the former President. Certainly respect for the rule of law, free trade, and understanding who our allies are abroad.
I've spent the past three years, abroad, representing the United States. And I want to support a presidential candidate who knows that we have very real enemies abroad. But that we also have indispensable allies, they need to be supported. I want to know -- I want to vote for a president who knows the difference, and Kamala Harris knows the difference there.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, interesting to hear you say that you think they embody conservative values even more than Donald Trump does.
Just, at the race overall, this weekend, we heard Donald Trump calling Vice President Harris, mentally disabled. That is a quote, which obviously--
FLAKE: Right.
COLLINS: --is offensive to people who do have disabilities. But he says that on the campaign trail.
Today, he's saying that Biden can't -- that Kemp can't get in touch with Biden, about the hurricane response. Kemp says that's not true, he talked to him last night.
FLAKE: Right.
COLLINS: I mean, when you look at what's happened, even just the last 72 hours, what do you think the next 30 days of this campaign are going to look like?
FLAKE: Well, I think we don't just look to -- have to look at the last 72 hours. You can look far beyond that. This is, calling people losers and clowns and deriding the country, saying that country is run by stupid people? That's just unbecoming of what a conservative ought to be.
Remember, conservatives, we kind of trace our lineage back to Edmund Burke. And that's so you're not just a conservative on trade or on fiscal conservatism. You ought to be a conservative in comportment as well, and how you treat your fellow human beings.
It used to be, we have a grand tradition of, of the other party just being the loyal opposition. But instead, they've been derided as clowns or losers, and in this case, mentally disabled. That doesn't -- that doesn't comport well for conservatism, in my view.
COLLINS: Ambassador Jeff Flake, thank you for joining tonight.
FLAKE: Thank you much.
COLLINS: Up next. We are getting a first look at what the debate stage is going to look like. Tomorrow might be the first -- last debate stage of this entire election cycle. It is the showdown of the running mates that is now just hours away. A preview, ahead.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: We're getting our first look, tonight, at the stage where the two vice presidential candidates will debate. Less than 24 hours, from right now, they'll be on that stage, at this time, tomorrow night.
Donald Trump himself has said he does not want to get back on the debate stage yet, perhaps though, he does not want his Vice President to be the last one to have the spotlight. The former President says that he does plan to do a personal play by play of what happens, tomorrow night, between J.D. Vance and Tim Walz.
My political sources are back with me.
Van, as we look at what that debate is going to look like, tomorrow night. Sometimes, the vice presidential one is more low key, more substantive. But this has actually been a really personal race between these two candidates, since they've been picked.
JONES: Yes. I mean, I think this is going to be different, because you have real differences of opinion, real differences of personality, and real differences of point of view.
I think this idea of these are both former veterans, they have pride in what they've done. They feel, I think, that there's a debate to be had about who is the stronger patriot. I think that's going to be important.
But I think Walz has got to be very careful. He is not a good debater. He's a good man. But he's not a good debater. He says he's not a good debater.
And I think J.D. Vance is mad. I think he has been humiliated every day since he was named vice president. I think he's looking for redemption.
Whenever you're going up against somebody, who is looking for redemption, who's pissed, who's got a personal stake in the outcome? You're dealing with a very dangerous opponent. And I think that Walz has got to be careful, tomorrow night.
COLLINS: I mean, what is your -- what are you going to be looking for, in that debate stage, tomorrow night?
ZELDIN: I think that -- I'm a supporter, obviously, of Senator Vance. And one of the reasons why, and, you know, I spoke about this at the convention, that I love J.D.'s story. A lot of people out there in America don't know it.
So, being able to find opportunities to talk about your service in the military--
JONES: Who doesn't know his story.
ZELDIN: --where you -- where you--
JONES: He's got the most -- he got the most famous story in American politics. He mostly made-up, but he's got a famous story. ZELDIN: And -- but, you know, there are a lot of people out there actually tuning in, and somehow they're undecided in this election, and you have to -- and talking to them about the issues.
For Governor Walz, I think that there is an accounting that I would -- I would expect J.D. Vance to be getting into, as far as the comments about, serving inside of war -- serving in war. He was distributing tampons in boys bathrooms elementary school. Some people say, Oh, stay away from the cultural issues. Well, a lot of people don't know about that. Nor -- delaying to bring in the National Guard when Minneapolis was being burnt down, or supporting taxpayer-funded health care to people who aren't legally in the country.
There's a lot to get flushed out when you're running against someone who is the furthest left nominee for vice president ever--
JONES: And he's beloved, popular. And you are hated and despised even in your own party. So, that's one more thing--
(CROSSTALK)
ZELDIN: Well--
COLLINS: Well, and I should note also, just quickly, I believe that was fact-checked, and they actually weren't doing that in boys restrooms in schools.
ZELDIN: Well no, it's a bill--
COLLINS: They checked and they--
ZELDIN: It's a bill though, that Governor Walz signed.
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: But it didn't actually happen. People looked into that. That does matter.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Maybe Walz would be walking into--
(CROSSTALK)
ZELDIN: Well he did sign it.
FARAH GRIFFIN: But -- but listen.
ZELDIN: But that was a bill that was signed.
FARAH GRIFFIN: J.D. Vance has a historic unfavorability rating right now, going into this debate. He's also one of the least qualified VP candidates, in recent memory, and that he's a junior senator, and he's running with the oldest nominee for president, Donald Trump. So he needs to show up and convince the public, I would be ready, God forbid, on day one to be President of the United States.
But what I would say is this. A lot of folks were introduced to J.D. Vance, as the guy who's criticizing cat ladies and insulting women. That's not all there is to J.D. Vance.
He is a Yale Law grad. He's a Marine Corps veteran. He's somebody with a very fascinating life story, things about it have been questioned. If that side of him shows up, I think he could have a really formidable night.
JONES: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I would not underestimate him, tomorrow.
JONES: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I actually, am bullish that he might be the person who outperforms expectations.
But Tim Walz, this is a guy who spent 12 years in the House. He's a, you know, on his sixth year as governor. He should have the credentials. But I think he's somebody who's a lot more meant for retail politics than in front of a podium, kind of hashing out the policies.
COLLINS: Well, and of course, they've been practicing for this. Pete Buttigieg has been playing J.D. Vance in the debate prep. You've seen Tom Emmer, the House Whip from the Republican side, playing Governor Walz, in J.D. Vance's debate prep. And we've seen this playing out.
But we've also seen Donald Trump on the campaign trail. And obviously, some of this is going to come up, tomorrow night. Donald Trump was talking about immigration, over the weekend. Even he acknowledged that it was a darker speech than what he's given previously.
This is what he said last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Crooked Joe Biden became mentally impaired. Sad. But lying Kamala Harris, honestly, I believe she was born that way.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And if you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country.
That's over 647,572 migrant criminals who Kamala set loose, to rape, pillage, thieve, plunder and kill the people of the United States of America.
They'll walk into your kitchen, they'll cut your throat.
I'm just saying, this is a dark -- this is a dark speech.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, are we going to see that, on the debate stage, tomorrow night, when they're talking about immigration?
JONES: Probably. I mean, just to set the facts straight. Crime is going down.
COLLINS: Which the FBI just updated the numbers today.
JONES: Yes. And the immigrant population is committing crime at a lower rate than the rest of us.
But that's the kind of despicable stuff that you're going to see from J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance has no integrity, no dignity, no morals. He changed his whole personality to fit in with Donald Trump. He's lying about Haitians, and has destroyed the Haitian community in his own state, for power.
He has done nothing except write a phony book, suck up to people with big money on Wall Street, and then be a Senator for a year and a half. He is a despicable person. And you're going to see the worst of American politics, tomorrow night, from this guy. He's a racist, and he's horrible.
ZELDIN: Van.
Listen, I think he is a man of integrity, and he is someone who doesn't lie about his service in military.
JONES: Cats -- eat cats and dogs?
ZELDIN: Well--
JONES: Cats and dogs?
ZELDIN: Well, Tim Walz is out there saying he served in combat.
JONES: Cats and dogs?
ZELDIN: He never served in combat.
JONES: Black people eat cats and dogs? Black immigrants eat cats and dogs?
ZELDIN: Then when he was asked about it--
JONES: That's integrity?
ZELDIN: I mean, listen.
JONES: That's integrity?
ZELDIN: You heard Scott Jennings on the line -- here on air, talking about -- talking about it, last night, about not knowing what words to use, and blaming grammar or whatever, like you have to be honest and truthful.
JONES: I'd rather have -- I'd rather have bad grammar than a bad soul. He has destroyed Haitian children's ability to go to school, because he's a racist.
ZELDIN: Well, lots of what J.D. -- what J.D. Vance is pissed off about--
JONES: He's a horrible person.
ZELDIN: --is the fact that the border czar is allowing the border wall--
JONES: Well then attack Kamala.
(CROSSTALK)
ZELDIN: --Remain in Mexico policy gets eliminated.
JONES: Don't attack Haitians. Attack Kamala. Don't attack Haitians.
ZELDIN: Ramping up catch and release.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Don't attack Haitian children.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Tonight, I would add--
JONES: No, no, no, don't do that.
ZELDIN: Getting rid of Title 42.
JONES: You're a better man than to defend--
ZELDIN: You have 11-year-old, 12-year-olds--
JONES: You're a better--
ZELDIN: --13-year-olds, 14-year-olds who are getting kidnapped and raped and murdered. These stories are tearing apart--
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: And--
ZELDIN: --communities.
FARAH GRIFFIN: The town that chose to race (ph) that's what gets to me. Because you ran a campaign with authenticity and integrity. There are bad things that have happened because of criminal migrants, who've come to this country. Highlight those. But don't make things up about a whole swath of people who, by the way, the Haitian community, in Springfield, is here legally.
ZELDIN: But if you're--
FARAH GRIFFIN: He's misrepresented things that actually detract from issues voters like me care about. I want to secure the border.
ZELDIN: But is it--
COLLINS: Should he back off of that comment about the Haitian migrants, tomorrow night? Would you -- would that be helpful to your party, over the next 35 days?
ZELDIN: Well, if you -- if you're going to talk about Springfield, Ohio, and other places? There is a massive strain, as it relates to the education system, the health care system, the budgets.
JONES: Yes. Nobody's eating cats and dogs. We should talk about that, because that is a real thing. But he didn't--
ZELDIN: OK. But swans and geeses--
JONES: That's not what he's talking about.
ZELDIN: You know like what's--
JONES: That's not what he's talking--
ZELDIN: I mean, listen--
JONES: There are plenty of swans and geese, in Springfield, Ohio.
COLLINS: But I just--
ZELDIN: The issue, though, that we should be talking about--
JONES: But this is your party -- this is what your party has become.
ZELDIN: No. The issue that we should be talking about is strain on education. The strain on health care.
JONES: You pick somebody who's completely -- you pick somebody who's completely -- you pick somebody has a year and a half in a Senate--
ZELDIN: Strain of budgets.
JONES: --who is completely unqualified, and who is a racist and a bigot. That's who you picked. And you're defending him.
ZELDIN: $6 billion that New York City is paying.
[21:50:00]
JONES: And well, we should have talked about that.
ZELDIN: We should. Because we have a sanctuary city--
JONES: And not the racist, bigot. But he's a racist, bigoted unqualified candidate.
ZELDIN: --we have sanctuary city, in New York City. We have sanctuary state in Albany. And on top of it, they just passed non-citizen voting, in New York City.
JONES: Yes.
ZELDIN: They had non-citizen voting getting implemented. And you know what the Department of Justice is, they're going after Alabama? JONES: Yes, for -- for local elections. Not for federal elections.
ZELDIN: Alabama just struck their voting roles for illegals.
COLLINS: Right. It's illegal in federal elections.
ZELDIN: And DOJ just went after Alabama for it.
JONES: Not for federal. For local elections. Be clear. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
COLLINS: Why -- you don't even need to tune in, tomorrow night. There's a debate playing out, right here, at 9 o'clock. Thank you so much. This political panel will be back to that conversation.
Up next. Vice President Harris is talking about weed on "All the Smoke," yes, that podcast, legalizing it. And also, more with two NBA champions. We're going to talk to one of them, right after this.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Today, we saw Vice President Harris go further on marijuana than President Biden has, saying for the first time, since she became the Democratic nominee, that weed should be legalized.
In an interview with the sports podcast, "All the Smoke," Harris stood by her past calls on this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I just feel strongly people should not be going to jail for smoking weed. And we know historically what that has meant and who has gone to jail.
Second, I just think we have come to a point, where we have to understand that we need to legalize it and stop criminalizing this behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Harris told NBA champions that you saw sitting there, Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, that she has felt this way about weed for a long time. Though it is worth noting that she oversaw prosecutions, marijuana-related offenses, as San Francisco's District Attorney.
Matt Barnes, the CEO of All The Smoke Productions, is our inside source tonight.
And it's so great to have you, Matt. I definitely thought, if I ever interviewed you, we'd be talking about basketball.
But just given this interview. That is, you have a very popular podcast. You sat down with the Vice President. What stood out from that -- from your sit-down with her, including her comments that she had, to make about marijuana.
MATT BARNES, NBA CHAMPION, INTERVIEWED HARRIS ON "ALL THE SMOKE" PODCAST: First and foremost, I felt, instead of an interview, as more of a conversation. I think at the end of the day, we were -- had the honor of talking to a long time Warrior fan that happens to be running for the President of the United States.
But when it comes to cannabis, and obviously the stigmas and myths on her track record as a prosecutor, and when you do your research and kind of find out the actual numbers and that her arrests were down 66 percent to her predecessor? You start to realize, OK, well, maybe there's a little fabrication there.
But as far as what's going to take place. Now, her administration -- her and Biden administration pardoned over 6,000 people. Encouraged other governors across the country to do the same, which ended up leading to hundreds of thousands of people being released for cannabis.
So, I think we've come a long way with cannabis. I still think we have a long way to go, because there still are a lot of people locked up for it. And the wealth gap is disproportioned. Although this was supposed to be a great opportunity for minorities, it hasn't necessarily worked out that way.
So, I like her stance, and agree with her stance, and I hope we're able to continue to legalize it across the country.
COLLINS: Well, and you talked about policies like that, what that would look like if she is elected.
You also had a really interesting conversation with her about mental health, and kind of what it's like to be running for President of the United States, and the downsides to that.
I want people to just listen to what she told you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARNES: How do you protect your mental health and your mental space?
HARRIS: Well, number one rule, don't read the comments.
BARNES: They're nasty. They're nasty.
HARRIS: I'm serious.
BARNES: Yes.
HARRIS: Don't read the comments. Just--
BARNES: Yes.
HARRIS: Let's start there.
I work out every morning. I work out every morning. For me, it's just mind, body and spirit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, you obviously have spent a lot of time in the public eye. I wonder what you -- what you made, and what you took away from that conversation.
BARNES: Well, I mean, it was an interesting question from a standpoint of, I think there's no -- there's no boundaries on the other side, now, as far as what can be said, and what kind of personal attacks come.
And we had the honor of doing Kobe Bryant's last interview, and I asked him a similar question. And he told me, it's like I heard everything and everything hurt. You know what I mean?
So, I kind of wanted to see someone, who's at the top of her game with the opportunity that she has, that how do you protect against all the noise and the madness?
And I think she gave a great -- a great answer. To be able to exercise and be at one, and then don't read the comments. We all know how treacherous social media can be at times. So, I think that's most important.
As an athlete, the game is 90 percent mental. I've never been a presidential candidate. But I'm sure, with all the mudslinging coming from one side, sometimes, although you may try to ignore it, you still hear it, and I'm sure it bothers you.
So, she deals with it a certain way. And I hope that encourages other people to handle their mental health and prioritize that.
COLLINS: I heard everything and everything hurt. I mean, that's a really good way of putting it.
BARNES: Yes, absolutely, especially from one of the greatest athletes of all time.
COLLINS: And just sitting down with her in this situation. We've seen so many presidential candidates. Trump is doing this as well, doing a lot of podcasts, and trying to reach out to people from that way.
What did you make of the fact that she just sat down with you, overall?
[22:00:00]
BARNES: I mean, it was tremendous. Shout out to my good friend, Chris Holliday, who made it all happen within a few days. But the fact that she sat down and was so welcoming.
And our goal on that show is always to kind of humanize our guests, make them feel comfortable, so they really open up and share. And we felt like, she did that.
COLLINS: Yes.
BARNES: We laughed. She had some serious points. We touched on some policy. But I think, overall, we gave our fans a chance to get to know her, a little bit better.
COLLINS: Matt Barnes, it's a great listen for anyone. The podcast overall is as well. Thank you for joining me, tonight.
BARNES: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thank you for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
