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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Floats Sending Military After "Radical Left Lunatics"; Harris: Trump "Unfit" To Serve, His Staff Thinks He's "Not Ready"; Six New Lawsuits Accuse Diddy Of Sexual Assault. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 14, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Kamala Harris goes all-in, on Donald Trump's enemy-from-within comment, unleashing a searing attack, after Trump suggested using the U.S. military, on Election Day, to handle, what he calls, radical left lunatics.
Trump's former Defense Secretary will react.
Harris is also launching a major new campaign push, tonight, aimed at shoring up support from Black men, just days after former President Barack Obama sounded the alarm.
And at least six new accusers, tonight, are filing lawsuits against Sean "Diddy" Combs, claiming -- claims that are ranging from rape and sexual assault, to drugging drinks as well. One of the allegations even involving a then-16-year-old boy.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
We start with politics tonight, though, as Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are holding dueling events, in what could be the place that decides it all, in just a few weeks from now. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
On stage, just a few moments ago, the Vice President just used the former President's words against him, after he suggested using the U.S. military, on Election Day, to go after what he called bad, sick and radical left lunatics. In other words, his political opponents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's talking about the enemy within Pennsylvania. That he considers anyone who doesn't support him, or who will not bend to his will, an enemy of our country. He is saying that he would use the military to go after them.
We know who he would target, and we know who he would target, because he has attacked them before. Journalists, whose stories he doesn't like. Election officials, who refuse to cheat by filling extra votes and finding extra votes for him. Judges, who insist on following the law instead of bending to his will.
This is among the reasons, I believe so strongly, that a second Trump term would be a huge risk for America and dangerous.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Donald Trump is increasingly unstable and unhinged.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was Harris on stage, in Erie, Pennsylvania. She did something that we don't normally see her do at her rallies, which is she turned and played sound bites of Trump, and his quotes, and what he has said previously.
And now, I want to let you hear the exact quote that she was talking about there. When Trump was asked, yesterday morning, on Fox News if he thought that there would be chaos on Election Day.
He said he wasn't worried about Eddie from his supporters or from bad foreign actors. But then he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. Not even the people that have come in and destroying our country. By the way, totally destroying our country. The towns, the villages, they're being inundated. But I don't think they're the problem in terms of Election Day.
I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or, if really necessary, by the military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He wasn't done, though, with those comments. Then, he got specific and named a name that came to mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The thing that's tougher to handle are these lunatics that we have inside, like Adam Schiff. Adam Shifty Schiff. Total sleazebag is going to become a senator. But I call him the enemy from within.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Congressman Adam Schiff responded to that quote there, and wrote on social media, "Just as he incited a mob to attack the Capitol, he again stokes violence against those who oppose him."
And my source tonight is Donald Trump's former Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper.
Secretary Esper, thank you for being here.
When you hear what Trump is talking about, do you take those comments seriously?
MARK ESPER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I think we should always take the comments of political leaders and other leaders seriously. Absolutely. He's spoken about this before. If you recall a year ago or so, he spoke about a second Trump term being about retribution. So yes, I think we should take those words seriously.
COLLINS: Well, I just think about what you wrote in your book, and that during the George Floyd marches and protests in 2020, he asked about shooting protesters. And as you wrote, you said, you quoted him, saying, Can't you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something.
[21:05:00]
And so when he's saying that the enemy from within should potentially be handled by the National Guard, and if necessary, the U.S. military, do you fear that he would try to utilize the National Guard, the military, against U.S. citizens?
ESPER: Yes, I do, of course, because I lived through that, and I saw over the summer of 2020, where President Trump and those around him wanted to use the National Guard, in various capacities, in cities such as Chicago and Portland and Seattle.
And of course, there was a moment in time, as you just described, where he, on that early date in June, where he wanted to bring in active-duty military as well. So, that's what equally concerns me about his comment would be the use of the military in these types of things.
Now, the good news is I don't believe he has the authority, under the law, to use the military, unless there was some type of civil disobedience or insurrection, in which case that would be used, the Insurrection Act. But otherwise, these other roles that he's described in the past are law enforcement, and that is prescribed under the Posse Comitatus Act. So, he would not be able to use it.
Now, I'm not a lawyer. But this would be a good discussion to have. But my sense is his inclination is to use the military, in these situations. Whereas my view is that that's a bad role for the military. It should only be law -- it should only be law enforcement, taking those actions.
COLLINS: But just to hear a former Defense Secretary say that they are fearful that the person, the President they served under, the Commander-in-Chief they served for, would use the U.S. military against U.S. citizens.
I mean, you were in that role, when he suggested shooting protesters before. Aren't you worried about who could be in that role when he suggests something like that, potentially again?
ESPER: Well, yes, I've said that on many occasions, Kaitlan. My concern is that the last year of the first Trump term will look more like -- or the first year of the second Trump term will look more like the last year of the first Trump term.
I think President Trump has learned the key is getting people around you, who will do your bidding, who will not push back, who will implement what you want to do. And I think he's talked about that. His acolytes have talked about that. I think loyalty will be the first litmus test.
So yes, of course, it concerns me on many levels, not least of which is, the impact it could have, on American citizens. It's the impact on the institution of the military, the impact it could have on the professional ethic of our officers and NCOs and soldiers and sailors and airmen. So, I'm concerned about all these things, all the impacts on multiple levels.
COLLINS: In Bob Woodward's new book, he quotes someone that you worked with, that you served with. That's retired General Mark Milley, who Trump handpicked to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
And he is quoted directly as calling the former President, and I'm quoting Mark Milley, now, the most dangerous person in this -- to this country, and a fascist to the core.
Do you -- I mean, you served with Mark Milley. Do you agree with those comments?
ESPER: Well, look, I have a lot of respect for Mark Milley. He and I are close friends. I understand where that sentiment is coming from. Frankly, I wish he and other four-stars would stay out of the political process. But look, I'm not going to get into that.
I've said in the past that I believe Donald Trump is unfit for the presidency, I think, for many reasons, beginning with lack of character. Second, the fact that he would put -- he puts himself before the country and American people, and a few other reasons.
So, I'm not going to kind of get in the mud. I believe we need to elevate our civil discourse. So, I've avoided name-calling, and things like that, and making those types of comparisons. But I've laid out my case as to why I don't think he's fit for the office.
COLLINS: Yes, and you've said you won't be voting for him this election.
Secretary Mark Esper, thank you for your time.
ESPER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: My political sources are also here with me tonight.
Former communications director for Vice President Harris, and the Co- host of the "TrailBlaze" podcast, Jamal Simmons.
Former Trump deputy White House press secretary, Sarah Matthews.
And National Political Reporter for The New York Times, Astead Herndon.
Sarah, you also worked for Donald Trump. You've since endorsed Vice President Harris. You're voting for her in this election.
But what do you -- when you hear Trump say, the enemy from within? And he makes clear, I mean, he name-drops a U.S. lawmaker who has investigated him, as someone that he considers the enemy from within. What do you make of those comments?
SARAH MATTHEWS, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY UNDER PRES. TRUMP: I think it just shows you what a second Trump term is going to be about.
It's not going to be about making America great again. It's not going to be about bettering the lives of people, and solving their problems that they're facing. It's all going to be about him and his retribution that he's seeking, and him trying to gain as much power as possible, so that way he can get that retribution.
And I think that it was really smart, tonight, at the VP's rally that she held in Pennsylvania, she played clips of his own words, where he talks about the enemy from within, or things like that, where it shows that he's just going to bring more chaos and more division. And it was really smart of her to show that message, in front of voters, so they can be reminded of him.
[21:10:00]
Because I think that that's why you're seeing his team try to shield him. They didn't do "60 Minutes." They're not doing a second debate. All because they know that the more voters see of him, the more they'll actually see what his real message is about.
COLLINS: Well, and she never does that. I mean, I was watching the rally, and I texted one of her aides, and I said, Has she ever played Trump's own clips at a rally before? I mean, we've seen Trump play clips, but we've never seen her actually do that before.
What do you make of that strategy?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS, CO-HOST, "TRAILBLAZE" PODCAST: Right. Because if you look at what--
COLLINS: In Erie, the bellwether of bellwethers.
SIMMONS: Absolutely. If you look at what they've been doing, the Harris campaign has been going on these big mass market events, like "60 Minutes," right? She's going to go on Fox News.
While the Trump campaign, Trump's just been going on these very niche conservative outlets. So, the people who actually need to see kind of the Trump crazy, the Trump chaos, they're not getting exposed to it. So, she's got to expose -- themselves.
Here's what I wonder. Why didn't -- if he really wants to do this, he doesn't have to talk about it now. So, the question I wonder is, why is he mentioning these things now?
Which makes me think there are voters, out there, that he is still trying to punch up. He's still trying to get them excited to come out and vote for him. And maybe they just need to see him continue to be a pugilist, do something else that's getting them animated.
There's some reason why he's saying this. It's not just that he's popping off.
COLLINS: Well, and Astead, I mean, we've seen a bunch of Republicans being asked about this.
Glenn Youngkin, Jake Tapper was asking him earlier, just reading the exact quote. J.D. Vance was also asked, his running mate, obviously, about this earlier. They keep trying to argue that he's talking about migrant criminals, who are coming across the border illegally.
This is what J.D. Vance had to say earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Is it a justifiable use of those assets if they're rioting and looting and burning cities down to the ground? Of course, it is.
If that happens, if you have a major reaction to an election in 2024, of course, you ought to commit law enforcement resources to bring law and order back to our cities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Donald Trump mean by a enemy within? How do you interpret that?
VANCE: Well, I think one of the ways I interpret it is, in the past three and a half years, Kamala Harris' open border has allowed at least hundreds and maybe thousands of people that we know are on the terrorism watchlist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, those are not caveats. Those are not -- that's not what Donald Trump was saying earlier.
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, and I think we've seen this from his surrogates throughout this campaign. It's an effort to rewrite Donald Trump's own words, to reinterpret Donald Trump's own words. But this is where Donald Trump's consistency, over these years, is helpful. We know that he is very consistently tried and talked about, ginned up supporters around, jailing political opponents, targeting political opponents. We know that that's ratcheted up in the last couple years, as he has faced his own legal problems.
I don't know if there's a political angle to this more than a person who feels aggrieved by a system. And that's made very clear that, to Sarah's point, in the next term, he would use that system to turn against his opponents.
I think what Harris is doing makes a lot of sense. In isolation, it is an attempt for them to recast Donald Trump as extreme, to recreate that anti-Trump coalition that we've seen be strong in the midterms and other previous elections.
And I think if you add up the light of -- the statement she's made over the last couple weeks, she's clearly making a play for those disaffected Republicans, the people who voted for Democrats in the midterms, and trying to make a case that she can be a home for them.
I think that's a reversal from the kind of 2019, more liberal, progressive posturing that she was doing at that time, and trying to kind of reposition herself as someone who, I think is expecting an electorate that is going to try for Democrats, to recreate the what we have seen be the most consistent political coalition, over the last several years, an anti-Trump one.
This is the reason why the Nikki Haleys of the world, the anti-Trump Republicans of the world, think they will be in a better position with a different type of candidate. Because when Donald Trump opens his mouth, on these issues, Americans are reminded of things like January 6, and his kind of extremism on that front.
COLLINS: We have one of them, right here with us, Sarah Matthews.
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: And don't go anywhere, because we have more questions for you about this strategy, coming up, and that coalition.
Because something that Vice President Harris was also doing today was launching an effort to try to court Black men. This is something that Trump was boasting tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Our poll numbers have gone through the roof, with Black and Hispanic, have gone through the roof.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And I like that. I like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Tonight, we'll also deliver the latest on new lawsuits, against Sean "Diddy" Combs. Among the accusers is now a teenage boy. We have the disturbing details for you ahead.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With three weeks and one day to go, in a race that could not be closer, Vice President Harris is pushing hard to shore up cracks, in a key Democratic voting bloc. She's specifically trying to boost her numbers with Black men.
That effort comes with a new policy proposal, targeted ads in key states, and also interviews with Black media outlets with moments like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN CARTER, HOST AND REPORTER, THE SHADE ROOM: You're seeing, you know, in the polls, and you're seeing Black men aren't as quote, excited or fired up for you. How do you respond to that?
HARRIS: Well, that's not my experience.
CARTER: OK.
HARRIS: One, that's not my experience. Two, Election Day has not arrived yet.
CARTER: OK.
HARRIS: And the third point, that is probably the most important point, Black men are no different from anybody else. They expect that you have to earn their vote.
I intend to earn the vote of everyone, including Black men. Two, pay attention to everything that President Obama talked about, because he also talked about, at length, the danger of Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my source tonight is the Democratic governor of Maryland, Wes Moore.
Governor, thank you for being here.
You're obviously also a surrogate for the Harris campaign. And I want to talk about the state of her campaign.
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Thank you.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: Because right now, polls show that she is getting a lot of support from Black men, relatively speaking. But it's much lower than what President Biden got. 70 percent so far have said they will vote for her, in just about three weeks from now. That's compared to the 85 percent that voted for President Biden in 2020.
If those defections, those changes in the numbers, hold, how alarming is that to you?
MOORE: Well, I don't think they're going to hold, because I think that the Vice President is going to go out there and earn it.
I think, people forget, when you're looking at the distance between President Biden's numbers, and where people have Vice President Harris', is that President Biden, for all these years that we've seen the work that has happened under the Biden-Harris administration.
We've seen that now we have the lowest recorded unemployment rate amongst African Americans in recorded history. We've seen how Black wealth has increased by 60 percent, since the start of the pandemic.
I think what the Vice President is doing right now is, A, we're going out there and reminding people that this is the Biden-Harris administration, and the policies that people saw, from President Biden, that increased Black wealth, that increased, that supported Black entrepreneurship, were policies that were being done by both of them, simultaneously.
But then also, the reason that this opportunity agenda, for Black men, is so important, is it's building off the success that we've seen. And that's why I think people will continue to know that not only is the Vice President going to go out there and earn it, and really earn the support of Black men. They're saying that she is the candidate with a real plan, with a detailed philosophy, and actually real, real pathways to work, wages and wealth for African American men in our society.
COLLINS: Does this agenda, rolled out today, go far enough to appeal to those Black men, who so far have not said that they're ready to vote for her? Or do you think more still needs to be done, in these next three weeks before Election Day?
MOORE: Well, the thing that I'm really thankful for is this is an agenda that I worked on, and so many others worked on as well, because we know this is what works.
We know that if you just look at the State of Maryland, that we were able to turn historically -- historic low unemployment rates, by being able to do things, like focus on workforce development and workforce training, and removing barriers for people who are coming home from incarceration. That we're able to do things like raise wages and actually focusing on housing supports.
And if you look at the opportunity agenda, these are exactly the policies that she has correctly laid out. Putting together $25,000 in financial support for first-time homebuyers. Being able to give $1 million (ph) forgivable loans to Black entrepreneurs. These are things that we know that work because they are happening in Maryland. They're happening on the state level. And having a president who doesn't just see that, but is willing to work in partnership, to make that scale on the national level, is incredibly exciting. And I think you will see how that will resonate with Black voters as well.
COLLINS: Well, and so you think that what she's rolling out today will be effective, is what you seem to be arguing there.
I want you to listen. President Obama has now been deployed on the campaign trail, arguably one of the most effective Democrats, people in your party, to help campaign and stump for anyone.
But this is what he said to Black men, who he was saying, last week, may be considering just sitting out this election altogether.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: You're thinking about sitting out. And you're coming up with all kinds of reasons and excuses.
Part of it makes me think that well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president, and you're coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm curious, Governor. Do you agree that it could be sexism that's weakening her support?
MOORE: I think for all of us, as Black men, we know and appreciate the power of Black women.
I was raised by a strong Black woman. I am married to a strong Black woman. I got strong Black women and sisters. I know and appreciate the power of Black women in all of our lives. They have served as a spine, not just of our society, but also, in our individual lives.
Now, I do think that understanding that sexism is still a very real thing in our society. But also saying that Black men in the -- and the vote of Black men, has to go out there and being earned, those don't have to be mutually exclusive ideas. And I think the Vice President understands that.
The Vice President understands that, that for many Black men in our society, that the skepticism is real. And it's not have to do with her, and it doesn't have to do with the Democratic Party. It has to do with the -- with the frustration with the pace of progress, in America, that many Black men have been left behind, that many Black men do feel not just frustrated, but also feel like the system does not work for them.
And so, to go out there and really earn the Black male vote, it means you have to go out there and earn it. Put together policies that show that they can create real pathways, for them to be able to own more than they owe, and they can pass something off to their children besides debt.
[21:25:00]
Coming up with real chances to make sure that our young Black boys are being taught how not just to be employees, but how to be employers, and know that it means going to them, and not necessarily asking Black men to come to us.
That is the way you win elections. That is the way you show that the plan and the opportunity agenda that the Vice President is putting forward is not about the next 21 days. It's about the next 21 years. And that's why I think this is going to matter. And that's why I think you will see Black men, and we'll be out there pushing for it, will know that their right choice is Kamala Harris to lead the nation, going forward.
COLLINS: What do you think it is that's behind Trump's appeal to Black men? Because when you look at his numbers, where he was in 2020, he was at 8 percent, New York Times/Siena College poll. In 2024, right now, he's at 20 percent.
I mean, given what you just laid out, what Harris is trying to do, to appeal to these voters, to show that she does want meaningful change. Why do you think Trump's numbers have gone up?
MOORE: I think Donald Trump appeals to the skepticism. I think Donald Trump is very good at dissecting the problem. So, when Donald Trump says that, You know what? That many Black men have not had a chance to benefit from economic growth that we have seen, over generations, in our society? He does it because he's prescribing the problem.
When Donald Trump talks about the racial wealth gap. And in my state, we had an eight to one racial wealth gap, when I was inaugurated as governor. And that's not because one group worked eight times harder. It's because of policies that have been put in place.
Donald Trump will talk about that, because he's very good at diagnosing the problem. What he does not do is offer a real solution. That Donald Trump really is, he's a vessel for the frustration, but he is not a vehicle for the solution. And that's the thing that I think that Black men, and particularly, as we're going out there and talking to Black men, and particularly younger Black men.
I mean, it's not lost, I'm the only Black governor in this country, and one of the youngest governors in this country. So, I'm speaking specifically for and to a demographic, and saying that we understand the skepticism, and understand that it's real. And truthfully, Kamala Harris is the only one that is coming up with real solutions, to be able to address it and make our lives better.
COLLINS: As the Governor of Maryland, it's obviously a state in the DMV, in the D.C. area, what are you personally doing, given how close we are to this election, how close these numbers are, in case Trump does win. I mean, theoretically, he certainly could, if the election is tomorrow. We don't know how these numbers will actually pan out.
But are you, as a governor, personally preparing, in case he does go back to the White House?
MOORE: Well, I'm doing everything that I can to make sure that he does not go back to the White House. I plan on working every single day, for the next, as we say in the military, 20 days and a wake up. And I plan on having no voice left, and I plan on having all the skin from my knuckles gone, from knocking on as many doors as I can.
But also, I know there is a responsibility that I have, to the people of my state, to make sure that they are safe, and that no matter what the election results are, that they are going to be OK.
And so, even though we know that this is going to be a challenging period, and even the period between Election Day and inauguration day could be a very challenging period for our country, I want the people of my state to know that we have already focused time, energy, efforts, and resources, to ensuring that the people of my state are going to be safe, and that this election is going to be fair and free. And also that no matter the result of the election that the people of my state--
COLLINS: Well--
MOORE: --are going to -- are going to be better off.
COLLINS: I just ask, Governor, because, I mean, Maryland has a big part of the federal workforce that lives in your state. I think it's probably over 100 and -- close to 150,000 of them.
MOORE: Yes.
COLLINS: You know the number better than me, obviously.
MOORE: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, Trump is talking about slashing the federal workforce. We're hearing from Vivek Ramaswamy, Elon Musk, all these people. I mean, is that something you're preparing for?
MOORE: Well, it's part of the reason that I'm making sure that I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that he doesn't win.
Because, you are right. I mean, if you look at Project 2025, it is disturbing on a collection of different levels, when you're talking about the elimination of the Department of Education, when you're talking about a weaponization of the Department of Justice, when you're talking about the elimination of career employees, mid-level career employees, again, people who have served Democrats and Republicans.
These are not political people. These are people who just wake up every single day and do their job, no matter whether the President's a Democrat or Republican. And what Project 2025 is talking about is the elimination of those mid-level jobs, turning them all into political appointees.
And you're absolutely right. As the Governor of Maryland, that has -- that's distinctly dangerous to us, because many of those people who we're talking about, those are Marylanders. And we have moved -- when I was inaugurated, we were 43rd in the country in unemployment. We now have amongst the lowest unemployment rate in the entire country, at 2.8 -- at 2.9 percent. We worked hard to be able to get those numbers down.
[21:30:00]
But if you incorporate Project 2025, into our national dialog, and our national conversation, this will have distinct impacts, on our states. And most importantly, it will have a distinct impact on the State of Maryland.
COLLINS: Yes. And, of course, Trump has distanced himself from Project 2025. But interesting to hear you talk about what it would mean for your unemployment rate.
MOORE: Yes.
COLLINS: Governor Wes Moore, thank you for your time tonight.
MOORE: Thank you so much, Kaitlan. Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. Donald Trump is now demanding that Vice President Harris undergo a cognitive exam, as she is saying that he's unfit and unstable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: With just over 500 hours to go. Yes, 500 hours until Election Day. We counted. Former President Donald Trump, tonight, went from answering questions, during a friendly town hall, in Pennsylvania, to dancing on stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let's not do any more questions. Let's just listen to music. Let's make it into a music.
(VIDEO - DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE, PIVOTS PA TOWN HALL TO DANCE PARTY)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump always dances at the end of his rallies. Sometimes, going off stage during the YMCA. But we watched that tonight. It went on for about half an hour.
I should note, the music did start after there were some medical emergencies in the crowd. But it just kept going, with Trump occasionally exchanging words with the South Dakota governor, Kristi Noem, that you saw there on the left. She was one who moderated this town hall. But mostly, the former President was on stage just looking out as the music was blasting. And this is all coming, as Vice President Harris is suggesting that the former President is hiding from the American people, when it comes to interviews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: His staff won't let him do a "60 Minutes" interview. Every president for the last half century has done one. Anyone who is running for president, everyone has done it, except Donald Trump.
He will not debate me again.
I put out my medical records. He won't put out his medical records.
And you have to ask, Why is his staff doing that? And it may be because they think he's just not ready, and unfit, and unstable, and should not have that level of transparency for the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are back here at the table.
Astead, I mean, watching the Trump moment, tonight. It wasn't just what you normally see at a rally, I should be clear.
HERNDON: Yes.
COLLINS: His team is defending it, saying, Harris could never do this. That's what they're tweeting.
But it is a question of, you know, we're three weeks out from the -- and one day out from the election. You're in a huge, important place, like Pennsylvania. You're making that last-minute appeal to voters. And you're doing the YMCA dance.
HERNDON: It's a little bizarre. But I would say that the 2024 version of Trump, the candidate, is a little more bizarre than the 2021 or the 2016 one.
I think that the argument that Harris makes here is one that's now available to Democrats, after this candidate switch, and frankly, one that I hear even from some of Trump fans, who feel like the rallies are a little more meandering, who feel like his speeches are a little more not focused.
And I think that reflects the candidate, who has a pretty difficult task in this election, turning those marginal, low-propensity voters that they need very clearly, to change the scope of this electorate, and activating them to come to the polls.
Now, we know that the policy issues, the Trump campaign feels good. They think they win this election, on the economy, on immigration, on crime. When it comes to the personality of the two candidates, that's where he struggles. When it comes to chaos and competency, that's when he struggles. We should not take his kind of cause for a mental acuity test very seriously, because the biggest mental acuity test, I think, happens for candidates, is the type of debates he does not want to do again. And frankly, a lot of people, I think, were in agreement, he didn't perform very well at last time.
That's the challenges of this version of the Trump candidacy. And it's honestly the bright spot for a Harris campaign that, frankly, is not on the issue set that it would best prefer. If this is about policy and change, Donald Trump is actually performing better. If this is about personality, competency, stability? That's where the Democrats and Harris want to be.
COLLINS: Well, that's really interesting, because obviously Trump has said he doesn't want to do any more debates.
So, in this void of that matchup, Harris is going to places she has never gone before. She's doing Fox News, on Wednesday.
Biden has never done a Fox News interview, since he's been President, and the last Democratic candidate who was interviewed by Fox was Hillary Clinton.
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: And Reuters' Jeff Mason is reporting tonight that she might do the Joe Rogan podcast.
I mean, you used to work for her. What do you make of this strategy?
SIMMONS: I think they decided this campaign actually isn't about those policies, right? This campaign is about, it's a leadership test. It's a test to show people that you can get in Trump's face, you can hold him accountable, you'll go anywhere, do anything, to try to win this campaign.
And there are a lot of people in the country, who want to see her do things that are going to be unconventional. They don't want to see her scripted and in the box. And I think what you're seeing her -- what you're seeing now is her going out, and doing those kinds of things that show that she's ready, able, and she'll take on anybody, anytime.
COLLINS: Well, and Harris released her medical records over the weekend, on Saturday.
SIMMONS: Same thing, right.
COLLINS: Just, obviously to highlight the fact not--
HERNDON: That's right.
COLLINS: No one's questioning her health necessarily.
HERNDON: No.
COLLINS: I mean, she's 60-years-old. But-- SIMMONS: And by the way, she can dance too. So, I'm not sure that Trump was on a dance-off.
COLLINS: Maybe they'll think that (ph) and set him a debate.
SIMMONS: Right.
COLLINS: But Sarah, you know, this is -- it's a highlight that Trump's not -- Trump won't release his. And that Trump has, you know, his doctors come out at the White House briefing room, Doctor Ronny Jackson, and talk about how healthy he is, and what great shape he's in.
I mean, you worked for him. What do you think is behind that? And now, he's demanding -- you know, he won't release his. He's saying that she should do a cognitive test.
MATTHEWS: Yes. I mean, if you look back and watch videos of Trump in 2016 compared to videos today, if you watch one of his rallies, it's abundantly clear to me that he's lost his fastball a bit.
[21:40:00]
I mean, he -- no one think -- would ever argue that he was the most eloquent speaker, let me be clear. But it does appear that he is meandering and rambling more often, and he's having obvious moments of confusion. I mean, he confused Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley not too long ago.
And so, I think that that just shows that they're a little nervous then to put him in these settings, where maybe he could have another moment like that. So, that's why they turned down the "60 Minutes" interview. He lost the first debate. They don't want him to do a second debate. They're not releasing his medical records. Who knows why?
And so, I think that it's really smart for her to draw a contrast, and show that she's willing to go into the arena, have a fight, and go maybe somewhere that might be a tough interview for her, like a Fox News. But she's not afraid. But it appears like Donald Trump is running scared.
COLLINS: Well, and the fact that he -- well, the fact that he didn't, he won't do another debate is -- I mean, it's becoming comedy gold kind of, Saturday Night Live spoofed it a bit, when they kicked off their -- or when they had their second episode on Saturday.
Just listen to this, because it features someone that might be recognizable, to our audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHLOE FINEMAN, AMERICAN ACTRESS AND COMEDIAN: (As Kaitlan Collins) Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins.
(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)
FINEMAN: (As Kaitlan Collins) Despite repeated offers from the Harris campaign, Donald Trump has officially refused to appear in another debate, saying, quote, It's not because I'm scared. So don't tell people I'm scared.
(LAUGHTER)
FINEMAN: (As Kaitlan Collins) However, there was one format in which President Trump was willing to face off against Harris. We take you live to that now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for Family Feud Election Showdown. And here's your host, Steve Harvey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, they're joking. But we might be closer to an episode of Family Feud with Harris and Trump than we would be to another debate, based on what I've heard from Trump-world.
HERNDON: Oh, absolutely.
First off, great placement on the night. They had you like completely--
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: They had the--
COLLINS: I know. The attention. Chloe Fineman did a great job.
(CROSSTALK)
HERNDON: I just think it's -- it's clear that at this point--
SIMMONS: Yes.
HERNDON: Yes, great, there we go.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: I know. It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
HERNDON: I think at this point it's clear to me that the Harris campaign has pivoted, when it comes to policy, as Jamal kind of was talking about.
I think that it's really based though, in 2019 for me, and the introduction of her to the rest of the country. She did not tell a consistent story about herself and what she believed in. And that is the huge thing that's hung over her, over those last several years. And I frankly, think it's what we've caught up to now.
Policy is not just about what you are literally promising. I think most voters, most people, know that the policies a lot of politicians promise, during campaign season, don't really come to pass. What it is, is a signal about your values and what story you're telling about yourself. And this is the where she has struggled.
Because I think when it's a bipartisan Council of Republicans, the bear hug of Nick Cheney -- of Liz Cheney and the Dick Cheney family, that's all well and good when it comes to individual targeting of Republicans. But it's not a consistent story that explains who you were four years ago, who would never have done that stuff, and who you are now.
SIMMONS: And--
HERNDON: And so, what I think these tougher interviews do is give her an opportunity to hear that question, and answer it most directly. Because the only time we've seen that really be posed to her, she said that her values have stayed consistent, and things like that.
She has said that she's a new way forward. They have not been willing to really lay out what new way forward really means. And so, in a change election, in the election where the status quo is unacceptable, that's a bar that she has to clear.
COLLINS: Yes.
SIMMONS: I'll only say, I mean, one thing, the one issue that does matter is abortion. And I think that's something she's been consistent on.
HERNDON: Yes.
SIMMONS: And something voters have said they will vote on if it becomes pertinent.
COLLINS: Yes, and something she didn't have when she ran the last time.
HERNDON: Yes.
COLLINS: We'll see--
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: We'll see how motivating it is.
Thank you all so much.
Thank you to SNL, and to Chloe Fineman.
Tonight, on a more serious note, we should note there are at least six more accusers, who have just come forward to file lawsuits against Sean "Diddy" Combs. Most of them are men. One is alleging he was sexually assaulted as a 16-year-old boy.
We're going to talk to Elie Honig, about what this could all mean for his case, as Diddy remains behind bars tonight. [21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: While behind bars today, Sean "Diddy" Combs learned that he has been hit with at least six new lawsuits, all of them filed anonymously to protect the identities of the alleged victims. And they accuse him of sexually assaulting both men and women, and also a 16- year-old boy.
The attorneys, who filed the suit say that they are representing at least a 120 people, who all claim that they are victims of Combs.
Today's allegations range from rape, to sexual assault, to drugging of drinks, with at least two of the alleged assaults occurring at Diddy's so-called White Parties that he would host.
These cases are separate, I should note, from the federal criminal charges that we've been covering here. Those are the ones that currently have him in federal custody, not far from where I'm sitting now.
Diddy has pleaded not guilty. He denies sexually assaulting anyone.
I'm joined by our CNN Senior Legal Analyst, and former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Elie Honig.
Some of these go back to the 1990s.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes.
COLLINS: But this is the first time he's been accused of something with a minor.
Can you just put this in context of what it means for prosecutors here, and what this looks like?
HONIG: So, this is only trouble for Sean Combs. Because prosecutors look for this kind of thing. We look for media reports, we look for civil lawsuits, as a way to find new victims, in cases like this.
So, I promise you, the prosecutors on this case are reaching out to the lawyers for these six new alleged victims, and they're going to start vetting them. And if any of these victims prove out to be credible and corroborated, they're going to be added to this indictment, if we see a new indictment. And prosecutors are just trying to build their case here, they have this much more ammunition that they can look into using now.
COLLINS: So, we could very easily see this being added to that indictment.
HONIG: Happens all the time. In sex assault cases, especially where you have a mass victim case--
COLLINS: Is that a superseding indictment?
HONIG: Exactly.
COLLINS: What is -- OK.
HONIG: You got the terminology. Yes, a superseding indictment. But this happens in sex trafficking cases. I did a case once, where we started off with 70-some victims. And when word got out, we did a big splashy press release, we found a couple dozen more.
Because there's comfort in numbers, right? Think about if, God forbid, if you or someone you knew was a victim, and you found out other people are coming forward? It makes it easier for others to come forward. So, I do expect this case to grow.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Well, it makes me think of when Diddy was first charged, we had his attorney, Marc Agnifilo, here--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --on THE SOURCE. We were talking to him. Because in the indictment, it said 50 victims and witnesses. And obviously, that's a massive number. He argued to me, he thought it was 49 witnesses, one victim.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, do you -- you were skeptical--
HONIG: I was--
COLLINS: about it, then, but--
HONIG: I was very dubious then. Now, I'm certain that that's wrong.
First of all, the indictment says victims, plural. Second of all, I promise you that prosecutors are already in touch with at least the lawyers for these six new people, and they're going to check them out and see.
And, by the way, you have to be careful when you're a prosecutor with civil suits, because they can be a good source of leads. But remember, these are people, who are now asking for money. We've already seen comments from Sean Combs' lawyer saying, Oh, they're just looking for a payday.
So, you have to be extra careful and make sure that you can, not just believe them, but corroborate them. Can you back them up? Can you find other evidence that you can present to a jury, and say they're telling the truth?
COLLINS: And of course, he's denied all wrongdoing.
HONIG: Yes. COLLINS: But when you're looking into this, if something is legitimate, and prosecutors do find something? We don't know. Obviously, these are anonymous -- anonymous people who are making these--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --very serious allegations. How soon could those charges be added?
HONIG: You need to move very quickly. And it gets--
COLLINS: Because he's going to trial, next May.
HONIG: Yes, the trial's in May. And so, prosecutors aren't going to want to blow up that trial date. I think they're going to want to get it in real quick.
And by the way, some of these allegations, as you said, go back to 1995. People are probably wondering, Well, isn't that beyond the statute of limitations? Usually it's five years. But the catch here is RICO, the racketeering charges, which prosecutors have brought.
And racketeering can enable you, as a prosecutor, to charge conduct that goes way farther back than five years. So, racketeering is a real powerful tool for prosecutors. I once charged a case, involving conduct that went back to 1987, based on racketeering. So, watch for prosecutors to use that here.
COLLINS: Elie Honig, thank you.
HONIG: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to go back to politics. As CNN is on the hunt for a unicorn. It is in the most pro-Trump county of all of the battlegrounds. A Democrat. We'll tell you how that went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The CNN reporter is here, and they want to talk to a Democrat. I'm serious as a heart attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's your other Democrat.
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, come join us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's a CNN reporter, and she wants some Democrats in Brantley County, and she can't find one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: When President Biden won Georgia, in 2020, he became the first Democrat, in 28 years, to flip that state, blue. And Vice President Harris is now working hard to ensure a repeat, even deploying former President Bill Clinton, to rural areas of the Peach State, as early voting is set to kick off, in Georgia, tomorrow.
But there is one county, in Southeast Georgia, where Democrats may not, probably don't expect to win over any new voters, this year.
CNN's Elle Reeve went to Brantley County, the most pro-Trump county of all the battleground states, to find out why that is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON HAM, BRANTLEY COUNTY GOP CHAIR: We vote 92 percent Republican, not because anything wrong happened to us, OK? Let's get that on the board. This ain't about me.
We're a small, rural county. At one point in time, the Democratic Party was for the working man, and the Republican Party was for all the elites. And somewhere, that got switched around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And Elle Reeve joins me now.
What took you to Brantley County? What made you want to go there and talk to these voters and just figure out where their heads are at on this?
REEVE: Like the purest expression of that really intense feeling a lot of Trump supporters have for President Trump. It's not like they felt for Mitt Romney or Reagan even. It's a real personal affinity. They felt like he supported them, and that he spoke in a genuine way. Even though most of them said they didn't like, or weren't interested in the really extreme tweets.
COLLINS: And they seemed mystified almost that you were there, you were asking to find a Democrat to maybe speak with.
There was this amazing moment in the diner. I would just want to play that for people, where you were asking, to find a Democrat to talk to. They found someone for you to speak with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REEVE: Do you have any insight for us on why that is, why he appeals so personally to people here?
CORBET WILSON, BRANTLEY COUNTY RESIDENT: I have no idea. He don't appeal personally to me.
DONALD LEWIS (ph), BRANTLEY COUNTY RESIDENT: We're all (ph) crazy.
WILSON: Yes. I don't know how he does that.
LEWIS (ph): No personal appeal, or any other kind of appeal.
WILSON: People would kill for him, I think, you know? Everybody that disagreeing with him getting death threats, you know?
LEWIS (ph): Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, those two guys. Were really interesting to hear from them.
REEVE: Yes. They were absolutely appalled by Jan 6. That was the main issue that they brought up. One of them was a Vietnam veteran. He said that Trump was anti-American, and what he'd done on January 6. Another objected to the way that cops have been beaten, and he didn't think Trump had done enough to make the mob dissipate.
COLLINS: And you spoke to one woman. I mean, this is what -- when it caught my attention, looking at your story, that her grandson had passed away, and she bought a Black Trump hat, to lay at a freshly-dug grave, just that, because he was such a fervent Trump supporter.
REEVE: Yes, when we talked to her, and to his parents, they said that he had been so committed to Trump, and he just couldn't wait to vote for him, and that he would want everyone to know that he supported Trump. And since he couldn't say it himself, they were going to put that sign up there for him.
COLLINS: Can I -- I just want to play that moment, because we have that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRI ROWELL, BRANTLEY COUNTY RESIDENT: I don't care if he's on Twitter or not, OK? It's not my place to judge him. It's just my place to say, I'm living better, and my family's doing better, and we're not struggling. So, if he wants to tweet something? Tweet on brother, I don't care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What did you make of that?
[22:00:00]
REEVE: Well, she -- that was Sherri Rowell. She has -- most people in the county have to drive far for work. Unless they're on fixed income. So either way, you're really watching your budget. So, inflation was a really big deal to her. She said it wasn't personal. And she said that if Kamala Harris had come out as an independent, she might have been interested in what she had to say.
COLLINS: Elle Reeve, always enjoy your reporting. Thank you.
REEVE: Thanks.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
