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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris & Trump Hold Dueling Rallies In Battleground Michigan; Hamas Has Not Named New Leader After Sinwar's Death; Trump Asks Why Civil War Wasn't "Settled" By Lincoln. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 18, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --and maybe because I've worked with Marshall, for the better part of 20 years, and in my mind, we're all frozen in time.
I first met Marshall, when I began filling in on NewsNight with the great Aaron Brown. Marshall was one of his wonderful writers. I might feel like we're frozen in time, but we're not. And I'm thankful for every one of the days that I've gotten to work with Marshall, who's truly one of the most gifted writers I've ever worked with.
Happy birthday, my friend, and thank you.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. Have a great weekend. I'll see you, Monday.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
The Harris campaign now calling him Sleepy Don, as the Vice President taunts Donald Trump as too exhausted to be president. Here's how he's firing back tonight, on that line of attack.
Both campaigns are nearly colliding in Michigan, this evening. And a top Michigan lawmaker is going to be our inside source on the latest, inside the race, in that state.
And also, check your sources. Fox News is fact-checking Trump, for something that Donald Trump said about Fox News, on Fox News.
I'm Kaitlan Collins, live from Tel Aviv, Israel. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening. We are coming to you live from Tel Aviv, tonight, where we are learning new details about the death of Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas mastermind behind the October 7th attack, and what happens to his body now.
CNN has spoken with the pathologist, who performed the autopsy on him, initially identifying him after conducting a DNA test on his finger that was cut off by Israeli soldiers.
We're also learning more about how Yahya Sinwar's remains could be used as a potential bargaining chip, to help bring home the remaining hostages.
We're going to have all that reporting for you, in a moment, straight from the ground, here in Tel Aviv.
But first tonight, there are new developments, on the campaign trail, with just 18 days left to go in this 2024 race.
Both Harris and Trump are barnstorming the critical battleground of Michigan, tonight, where the Harris campaign has opened a new line of attack on Donald Trump. That he's just too tired, too exhausted, and too all over the place, to be president.
Here's Vice President Harris, moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Now, check this out, he is ducking debates and canceling interviews.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: You saw, his own campaign team is saying it's because of exhaustion.
All right. Well, here's the thing. If you are exhausted from the campaign trail, it raises real questions about you are fit for the toughest job in the world.
(CHEERING)
(ENDS VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was a message that we also heard President Obama picking up on, in Arizona tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Have you seen him lately?
The point of a town hall meeting is to take questions.
AUDIENCE: Yes.
OBAMA: He just decided, You know what? I'm going to stop taking questions. And then, he's swaying to Ave Maria and YMCA, for about half an hour. Folks are standing there, not sure what's happening.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: Can you imagine if -- if I did that?
Our playlist would probably be better.
He said, January 6th was the day of love.
Made January 6th sound like it was Woodstock. (LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: You -- you would be worried if your grandpa was acting like this.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, they're both arguing that Trump is too tired to campaign.
I should note, Donald Trump is on the campaign trail, right now, still on stage in Detroit. He's been on stage for over an hour. Yes, that is the city that he trashed, just last week.
But as Donald Trump got on stage tonight, it got up to a bit of a rocky start, as his microphone went out for nearly 18 minutes, as he stood on stage. At one point, aides handed him another microphone. It also was not working.
This is what happened. You can see it for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's not love. It's not respect (OFF-MIKE).
(MAJOR MICROPHONE MALFUNCTION AT TRUMP'S MICHIGAN RALLY)
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Donald Trump seemed quite frustrated by that. He often is, when there are technical issues at his rallies. Of course, they do happen.
My political sources who are joining me at the top of this hour are:
Ashley Allison, the former National Coalitions Director for the Biden- Harris 2020 campaign.
And Doug Heye, Republican strategist and former RNC communications director.
Doug, I imagine you're pretty happy, you're not the person who was in charge of--
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: --logistics, at the Trump rally, tonight. And clearly, I mean, it's just, it's something that happens. But he was quite frustrated.
But what does it say to you, when you're hearing Vice President Harris, and Obama, and all of the Dem surrogates, getting on stage--
HEYE: Yes.
COLLINS: --and pushing into this narrative about Trump being too exhausted? Obviously, there's a 20-year age gap between he and Vice President Harris.
HEYE: Well, the first thing is, if Donald Trump does win, whoever said, if they're able to find out who said he was too exhausted, will not be serving in the Trump administration. They will be told, You're fired. And that's the proper thing for any campaign to do. If you're leaking against your candidate, you shouldn't be around much longer.
But look, I think a lot of what Harris and Obama's saying, I agree with. The 30 minutes of swaying was weird. But Donald Trump has been doing and saying very weird things for a long time. Remember, he was supposed to be toast after the Access Hollywood tape, and he wasn't.
And so, I think this is a mistake to lean in this hard for Harris, for two reasons.
One, it raises a question about the person, who is still the President of the United States, if anything globally happens where we need American leadership now. It's not Donald Trump or Kamala Harris, who is going to have to respond. It's Joe Biden, who lot of very fair questions of whether he's up to the task.
And two, it doesn't answer what voters are still saying that they want from Kamala Harris. Who are you? And what are you going to do? And she struggles to answer that question, even when she's asked very basic questions of, What is your economic policy and how are you going to implement it? She needs to put meat on the bones, and she only has two weeks to do that.
COLLINS: Ashley, do you think Doug has a point?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA WH SENIOR POLICY ADVISER, FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: Well, I agree with him that Donald Trump has been saying off- the-rail things for quite some time. So, I would not expect the last week to be anything different.
Here's what I will say about the approach that the Harris campaign is taking. And I think it's a pretty different approach than most traditional campaigns. They are doing a diversified strategy.
So, I think when she talks about his exhaustion, and she talks about him not being the same person he was eight years ago? She's speaking to those voters, who did not want a rematch of Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
And so, she's saying, If you were tapped out, if you said, I didn't want anything to do with this race, and now you're starting to pay attention to it, because Election Day is just a couple weeks away? And she's saying, Look, you didn't want the old guy on my side, but you sure don't want the old guy on the Republican side. So here I am.
Is it going to sway a large majority of voters? No. But because this race is so close, and we're talking about the margins, it is effective.
I also agree with Doug that it can't be the only thing that they're saying. And it's not. So, she is going on interviews talking about her economic policies and whatnot. But I think they're doing a multi-prong approach that I think could actually be effective.
COLLINS: Yes, and I do want people to listen.
Because, I mean, Trump himself to a degree -- I mean, this is something we saw with the debate, where she says something she knows he's going to respond to. I mean, if you know Donald Trump, you've watched him, you have a pretty good idea.
Listen to what he said when he was asked by reporters about them pushing that he's too tired to be on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What events have I canceled? I haven't canceled. She doesn't go to any events. She's a loser. She doesn't go to any events. She didn't even show up for the Catholics last night at the hotel. It was insulting. They, all they are, are soundbites.
I've gone 48 days now without a rest. And I've got that loser who doesn't have the energy of a rabbit.
Tell me when you've seen me take even a little bit of a rest. Not only am I not -- I'm not even tired. I'm really exhilarated, you know why? We're killing her in the polls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK, Doug, so you listen -- you listen to that. And Donald Trump has been -- he's canceling some interviews. Certainly, we've seen the hosts admitted it, in certain situations. But he has done some interviews.
But there was one today, where he does friendlier interviews. And today, he was talking about the detention of January 6 defendants, who I should note are people who have been charged or convicted of crimes, and comparing it to internment camps during World War II for Japanese Americans.
Listen to what Trump had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Why are they still being held? Nobody has ever been treated like this. Nobody's ever.
DAN BONGINO, HOST, THE DAN BONGINO SHOW, RUMBLE: Yes.
TRUMP: Maybe the Japanese during Second World War, frankly. But you know, they were held, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Doug, when you hear that, 18 days out, in the tightest race that we've seen in modern history, potentially, what's your reaction as a Republican?
HEYE: Look, it's Donald Trump saying what Donald Trump typically does. Which, when the Harris campaign sort of said, Look, these guys are weird, Trump and Vance, they might have had a point. But so much of this is factored in.
[21:10:00]
Again, when Donald Trump -- when the comments came out on Access Hollywood, it was a huge bombshell of a political story, but ultimately didn't sway voters. Because this is all factored in on Donald Trump. It's why he's sort of Teflon, on things like that. Even when he says appalling things in front of a Cardinal, at a Catholic dinner, which I say as a Catholic, it's factored in on him.
Voters know who Donald Trump is, whether they like him, or they don't like him. They're still trying to figure out what they think about Kamala Harris.
COLLINS: Ashley, I mean, Harris was asked today, about differences between her and Biden. It's a question she's been facing on the campaign trail.
But it is remarkable that it seems like any move she makes, it is obviously highly scrutinized. It should be. She's a presidential candidate. But then, I mean, Trump does say things like that, and they don't get anywhere near the attention that something she says does.
ALLISON: Yes, first, I just want to say, I think Donald Trump meant she didn't have the energy of the turtle, referring to the tortoise and the hare parable, let -- not the rabbit.
HEYE: Yes.
ALLISON: So, again, pointing out that he can't keep his words straight.
But in that interview, he says, I don't think anybody has ever been treated. Let's talk about the Native Americans, who were removed from their land. Let's talk about Black people who were slaves. I mean, let's talk about people, who are unjustly incarcerated, unlike him, who is convicted of 34 felons, and still hasn't seen any jail time.
I mean, we can go down the examples of people, if you want to compare. And also January 6th, where people trying to overthrow our Constitution, and some repercussions have to happen. Again, I agree with Doug that I do think some of this is baked in. But I think we have to continue to call it out, even if he is to win in November. We still need to call it out if he becomes the next president. And even if he doesn't win, and he says these things, we should call it out. We cannot normalize this type of language.
But I will also say this brings -- I've been saying this a long time, is that this is a -- there is a double standard, quite honestly, with Donald Trump, and anyone. But I think it is magnified right now with Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. She can do interviews, in enemy territory, so to speak. He can go on Fox News and say crazy things. And it doesn't matter.
And so, she needs to stick to her game, stick to her talking points, stick to her plan. And hopefully, the voters will align with her in November.
COLLINS: Yes, well, we're going to ask someone, who is out there, campaigning for her.
Ashley Allison. Doug Heye. Thank you both.
HEYE: Thank you.
COLLINS: As I mentioned, these candidates are both in Michigan tonight. Donald Trump's still on stage.
They both brought very different messages, about the future of the war, happening just next door to where I am right now, in Gaza. A critical issue in Michigan, of course, because it has the largest Arab American population in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Everyone must seize this opportunity to finally end the war in Gaza.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Bring the hostages home, and end the suffering once and for all.
TRUMP: Biden is trying to hold him back.
He's trying to hold him back. And he probably should be doing the opposite, actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump, there, is accusing President Biden of holding the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu back, from doing even more.
I'm joined tonight by the Democratic congresswoman, Debbie Dingell of Michigan. And Congresswoman, thank you for being here.
When you hear those messages back to back. And tonight, Vice President Harris was just talking about the suffering of Palestinians. That has been obviously a huge pillar in this war. What do you say to voters, in your state, who think these two candidates have the same position towards Israel?
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Look, this is a really complicated, hard issue, when I have had so many difficult, tough conversations, and so many people have been impacted on all sides of this, have lost family members, know people that are still being held hostage.
Gaza has been destroyed. More than 40,000 civilians have died. When it moved to Lebanon, people are dying that are known in the community. But the Jewish community knows people are being attacked. And there are almost no words, right now, that anybody can say that seems to be right. You just, you feel sick and you're scared.
But to have Donald Trump continue to urge this war to continue, not want the hostages to be released and come home, to not want a ceasefire, to not want peace? I know who I'm standing with. I want peace. I want the hostages home. And I don't want to see any more people die.
COLLINS: If a voter in Michigan, though, is saying, Well, I don't -- Harris hasn't done enough to break from President Biden's stance on this. I mean, are you worried about how decisive that could be, as we're standing 18 days out from this race, right now?
DINGELL: Look, I'm going to be very clear. One, this is a very tough issue that factors into what's going to happen in Michigan. You need to understand that. And we are not going to get Arab American votes at this point. There will be some.
The Vice President recognized one of the leaders in the Arab American community that had endorsed her today.
[21:15:00]
But two PACs this week, one, the Arab American PAC, that recommended that people skip both the top of the ticket, and the other major political organization recommended people vote for Jill Stein, which, by the way, a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Donald Trump.
And I do know that many people in the community, there have been some that are going to support Donald Trump, but understand that this is a man that wants to start internment camps again, that wants to -- you know, he was going to ban Muslims when he first became president. He was going to ban Muslims entering this country. So, they understand it, I mean.
But there are people that are just really -- this is a complicated issue that is not easy, and it's lasted over centuries, and it's just tearing us apart in Michigan. COLLINS: Yes, and we saw the Mayor of Hamtramck, who has endorsed Trump, appearing with him today. Obviously, they have a large Arab American population as well.
While the Vice President was in your state today, though, Congresswoman, she was asked by Peter Alexander of NBC News, again, a question that has faced her in basically every interview she's been doing lately. What she would do differently than Biden has done.
Here's part of what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: To be very candid with you, even including Mike Pence, vice presidents are not critical of their presidents.
PETER ALEXANDER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NBC NEWS: He's now given you that green light with his comments that you can carve your own path. So now that you have this ability to say--
HARRIS: Yes, going forward--
ALEXANDER: --you have to be on your own?
HARRIS: Well no, going forward, there's no question that I bring my own experiences and my own life experiences.
ALEXANDER: Is there a policy that stands out to you in particular either?
HARRIS: Sure. I mean, my approach to what we need to do around Medicare covering home health care, born out of my experience of taking care of my mother. My priority on housing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, she's noting her work on home health and on prioritizing housing.
But when you talk to Michigan voters, who are undecided or who don't know which way to go, is a distinction like that, enough for them?
DINGELL: It is for some. I, by the way, have worked with Joe Biden, for four years, to try to get that home health care bill done. And I know it was one of the things he wanted to done.
But she has made that commitment. I have talked to her. It is my bill with Bob Casey that we have been trying to -- there are a million people, right now, that are on that home care waiting list. Senior care matters. Somebody should be able to stay in their own home, in the community that they choose. And by the way, it can save money.
So that's one issue. But there are a lot of different issues. We have to go in, and really do the comparison these next 18 days.
He says that he cares about autos. Auto plants closed when he was president. People lost jobs. We have to tell people the truth. We have to talk to young Black men, who think they got a stimulus check, and have no idea what has really happened, and what happened to them, and draw the comparison.
And the one thing that I do think is important is people know who Donald Trump is. And he is weird, and he is crazy, and I don't understand it, sometimes.
People need to see the real Kamala Harris that I know. We got to get her into more retail politics. And we got 18 days, and we got a lot of work to do. But I'm Debbie Determined, and we have got to make sure the country knows what a stark course we have.
COLLINS: Yes, that is a big to-do list, Debbie Determined.
Congresswoman, thank you for your time, as always.
DINGELL: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. Speaking of Donald Trump, the one who always accuses the media of bias, now says it was Fox News staffers, who helped him write that speech that you saw, last night, at the Al Smith Dinner. We'll get their response to that.
Also, the details on the death of Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar. We spoke to the pathologist, who performed his autopsy, and how a cutoff finger helped get the DNA to identify him. That's ahead, here in Tel Aviv.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're live on the ground, in Israel, tonight, with new reporting on the killing of Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar.
First, Israeli sources tell CNN's Matthew Chance that officials are weighing how they can leverage his remains, which are obviously in Israeli custody, to secure the release of hostages that are still being held in Gaza. And that comes as we're also learning tonight that the autopsy results reveal that he was killed by a gunshot wound to the head.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond spoke with the chief pathologist who conducted that autopsy, and it disputes the Israeli military's initial account of how Sinwar died.
Both Matthew and Jeremy are here with me, in Tel Aviv.
And Jeremy, obviously, this is interesting, because initially we thought it was firefight. We know they obviously took down the building that he was in. But what did you hear from this pathologist?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Israeli military said there was a gunfight, involving three militants, who they didn't know who they were. One of them clearly was Sinwar, in the end. And then they fired a tank shell in the building, where he was injured. And the idea was that that was how he was killed.
But I spoke with this pathologist who actually performed the autopsy, last night, on the body of Yahya Sinwar, and he tells me that it was a gunshot wound to the head that actually killed him.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CHEN KUGEL, CHIEF PATHOLOGIST, ISRAELI NATIONAL CENTER OF FORENSIC MEDICINE: The cause of death is gunshot wound in the head. He has a bullet in his head, and there is a severe traumatic brain injury.
[21:25:00]
He has injury from other sources, like a missile injury in his right forearm, a fallen masonry on his left leg, or thigh, and many shrapnels that -- shrapnels that entered his body, but only in the chest, they caused the severe damage.
But the cause of death is the gunshot wound in the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: And so, he's clearly very certain there. And he actually reached that conclusion before hearing the Israeli military's account about what actually happened. He reached this conclusion just by looking at the body, by analyzing it, doing it like he would do for any other body.
What he also did is before the body even arrived there, he received a finger that had been cut off from Yahya Sinwar. And he performed, in his lab, the DNA analysis that led them to conclusively determine that this was, in fact, Yahya Sinwar, after a little bit of uncertainty about whether it actually was, and ultimately leading us to this very decisive moment.
COLLINS: Yes, between that and the power cord, or -- it was a power cord he was using as a tourniquet on his arm to, as he was bleeding?
DIAMOND: I'm not sure about that part, but.
COLLINS: That he was using something. I read this in an Israeli report. He was using this like tourniquet to try to stem the bleeding. They didn't think it would actually be successful in the end. But interesting to hear that contradiction, of the IDF account.
And Matthew, his body, obviously, is still in Israeli custody. It's being held secretly. What is the sense of Israeli officials, or what you're hearing about how it could be used as a bargaining chip.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, first of all, the Israelis routinely keep the bodies of Palestinians that have been killed as potential bargaining chips, people -- you know, things they can trade back with the Palestinians for some kind of deal. But it's not been years since they've had somebody in custody like this, or a body in custody like this, who's so senior. And so, that presents certain challenges. They don't necessarily want to trade that body back very keenly, because they're worried that his burial may rally support for Hamas, his shrine may kind of turn into a sort of rallying point as well. But the same time, it presents opportunities that they haven't had either.
And of course, there are still more than a 100 Israeli hostages inside Gaza that are being held captive. And the sources that I've spoken to say that, Look, this could be a great opportunity for us to use these remains of Yahya Sinwar, as a way of getting as many of those Israelis out as we possibly can. It's just one of the options that are being considered right now.
But you know, I got the sense from the people I spoke to, they are putting out their feelers--
COLLINS: Yes.
CHANCE: --to see what appetite there is amongst Hamas for that kind of deal.
COLLINS: Well, and as we've seen, the response in Gaza to his death. I mean, the Israel -- the IDF put out that video, Jeremy, yesterday, where you can see Sinwar, on the second floor of the building, still alive and preparing to throw a stick at the drone that is there in the building with him.
What's the sense of whether or not of why the IDF decided to release this, and if people feel it was a good decision?
DIAMOND: Well, Israelis, when they view that video, they are seeing the arch terrorist, the man who was responsible for the October 7th massacre, severely wounded, on his knees and about to die.
But it's being viewed much differently, in this region, and in particular, by Palestinians. We heard from Mustafa Barghouti, a Palestinian figure, earlier today, who was talking about the fact that this image, of Sinwar throwing the stick at the drone, is kind of like the image of someone making his last stand, a resistance fighter, a hero, who is fighting until the last moment.
And it also contradicts the kind of narrative that Israel has put out, and that U.S. officials have also agreed with, that Sinwar was hiding in a tunnel, over the course of the last year, while Palestinians were suffering above ground, which may, in fact, still be true.
But in this case, they are now presenting this image of a man, who was effectively fighting back, in his last moments, not hiding underground, but rather fighting back as a resistance fighter.
And that -- and this is kind of a Rorschach test for the region, certainly, about how he's going to be viewed, what his enduring legacy will be. And certainly, this presents an opportunity for this kind of myth of Sinwar to persist because of the existence of this video. COLLINS: Yes, on that sense, do we know who Israel knows -- do they know who they're going to be negotiating with, when it comes to his remains and the hostages, and what happens next year?
CHANCE: Well, in terms of successor to Sinwar?
COLLINS: Yes.
CHANCE: I mean -- I mean -- Hamas don't even know that, at this point. I mean, there are a number of, kind of potential candidates. But I mean, that selection is not -- it's not taken -- not taken place yet.
But I think it does -- that does talk to so one of the big sort of issues that's being discussed around this killing of Sinwar, this idea that with the killing of this one individual, the war ends, or Hamas disintegrates, or something like that.
That's certainly not been the organization that we've witnessed over the -- over the last several decades. They've experienced assassinations, high-level ones, before.
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:30:00]
CHANCE: And they've been replaced. And there's every reason to believe that Sinwar will be replaced as well.
Whether that new leader will have the same hardline approach, to the negotiations about the hostages, as Sinwar did, is something that is unknown, at this stage. The hope is, obviously that that person won't.
COLLINS: Yes, it's a key question.
Matthew Chance. Jeremy Diamond. Great reporting from both of you. Thank you for that.
We're going to have more on this story ahead, with a former IDF General and terrorism expert.
And also, on that 2024 race. Why Donald Trump said he wanted to sit down with Rupert Murdoch, this morning, and what he wants the conservative media mogul to stop doing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Biden is trying to leverage the death of Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, hoping it could mark the end of the brutal year- long war in Gaza, and bring home the more than 100 remaining Israeli hostages.
[21:35:00]
But there's been resistance, from Hamas, and from the Israeli side, tonight, as Hamas is arguing it won't release any hostages until Israel has completely withdrawn from Gaza. Israel says it won't do that until every hostage has been released first.
My source, tonight, is the retired Israeli Major General, Noam Tibon, who saved his son and grandchildren, when their kibbutz was overrun by Hamas terrorists, on October 7th.
And it's great to have you here. Just given your perspective from that day, you saved a lot of people who were at the music festival as well.
When you look at Sinwar's death, and the moment that is in front of Israel, right now, what do you expect Israel to do?
NOAM TIBON, RETIRED IDF MAJOR GENERAL, RESCUED FAMILY DURING OCT. 7 HAMAS ATTACK: I think this is a great opportunity, to shift gear in this very long war. And right now, we have very clear goals, in the north and in the south.
In the south, what we need to do is bring the hostages back home, and to remember what will be a victory. A true victory will be when my son, and all his neighbors, in the kibbutzim, and the settlement around Gaza, can go back home safely, which means they are not threatened by Hamas.
And I think, right now, when we kill almost all the leadership of Hamas include this very, very bad man, Yahya Sinwar. And as you said, it's justice. It's not revenge. It's justice. This man was cruel, was evil, and he was personally responsible for the slaughter, for the rape. And I think the world needs to understand that such people cannot exist in our world.
COLLINS: You've been a critic of Prime Minister Netanyahu, since the -- since October 7th, for how this war has been conducted. Obviously, the military has been responsible for the deaths. And he certainly feels justified, after he was told by a lot of the West, Don't go into Rafah, don't do this.
Do you think he has a political strategy for what is happening now in Gaza?
TIBON: First of all, Netanyahu is the one that's responsible for the failure on October 7th, the biggest failure in the history of Israel. He is also responsible that this war is going so long.
I think that right now he needs to understand this is a leadership point. And we have great people in Israel, but very poor leadership in this war. And a leadership point means that you need to understand that all the good results of the military attacks in the south against Hamas and in the north against Hezbollah, put us in a very strong position.
And right now, in order to win the war, we need a political offensive, in order to find a solution in Gaza, to bring the hostages back home, because there will be no victory without all the hostages back home, no victory.
COLLINS: Yes. TIBON: This is an open wound in our soul, in our soul, in our Jewish soul. And to find a solution, also to bring the people of the north back home, and both of -- both organizations need to be un-military anymore.
COLLINS: Well, and just to reinforce how personal this is for you. I mean, you went and rescued your son that day, when he texted you that Hamas terrorists had infiltrated it. Amir Tibon, he's an amazing reporter. He wrote an entire book on it called "The Gates of Gaza" that's incredibly powerful.
And when you take into consideration that, and you look at what the option is before Netanyahu right now. What if he doesn't stop? What if this doesn't end the war?
TIBON: First of all, I'm so proud of our military. And justice is also that, you know, very regular young soldiers killed Sinwar. In a way, this is also justice.
But I think that if Netanyahu, because of political rhythm, because he's so rely on the most extreme politicals in Israel, Ben Gvir and Smotrich, will continue the war without bringing the hostages back home. This is -- this is very, very sensitive. And if you're missing the point, it's not coming back anymore.
And we saw what happened in the north. We killed Nasrallah, which was a great enemy, and it was very important. But we didn't use the minute. And then, it becomes.
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:40:00]
TIBON: So, in Gaza, right now, we are in a very good position. We need to take an offensive political solution. What Israel wants for Gaza? What do we agree to do, in order to achieve it? How we are going to work with Qatar, with Egypt, with the United States, in order to change the reality in Gaza, to bring the hostages back home--
COLLINS: Yes.
TIBON: --and to bring somebody else to control Gaza. Not Hamas. This will be a victory.
COLLINS: Major General. Thank you for coming and joining us. I really appreciate it.
And up next. We'll check in here, from the ground, in Tel Aviv.
But also, back in the U.S., Fox News, tonight, is disputing a claim that Donald Trump made, about network staffers, and whether or not they helped write his speech, last night, at the Al Smith Dinner. A rare moment where they're fact-checking Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, Fox News says that Donald Trump is lying. Not a sentence you hear very often. But the channel is denying, tonight, that someone on its staff helped him write jokes, for last night's speech, at the charity dinner, after he said as much on, Fox News, this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE DOOCY, FOX & FRIENDS CO-HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Your material was real funny. Who wrote it? Who helped you with it?
TRUMP: Well, I've had a lot of people helping, a lot of people. Couple of people from Fox, actually, I shouldn't say that, but they wrote some jokes. And for the most part, I didn't like any of them.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
And Brian, obviously, when Donald Trump said that, I mean, it raised several flags about someone helping him write this speech.
But today, they're denying it. What is Fox saying?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST, AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": I've been talking with my sources about this, Kaitlan. I think this is actually not a case of Fox colluding with Trump to make him sound funny.
I think it's more a case of Trump thinking he owns Fox News, when he actually doesn't. He did use one writer, one comedian, who also sometimes sends jokes to Greg Gutfeld. So, that is true, Trump did have help with his jokes. But he was not actually using the Fox News writers room, for help with these jokes.
But all of his behavior, today, on Fox, and actually all-week long, shows that he thinks he has control over Fox News. For example, he says he told Rupert Murdoch, or he was going to tell Rupert Murdoch, today, to stop running anti-Trump ads on Fox.
That is a wild idea. Rupert Murdoch's never going to turn down advertising money. And besides, cable networks basically are required to run political ads, in the final weeks of an election. So, Trump is out there, with these ideas, thinking he's actually the Programmer-in- Chief of Fox, when he's not.
COLLINS: Well, and this comes as he is doing a Fox News interview. But the questions about the other interviews he's been canceling on CNBC, on NBC, Christine Romans.
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: It makes you just look at the content of these interviews. Obviously, not every interview is the same.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: And during that moment, this morning, he was asked about who his favorite president was. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX & FRIENDS CO-HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Favorite president when you were little.
TRUMP: So, I liked Ronald Reagan. I thought he was -- look, I didn't love his trade policy. I'm a very good trade -- I have made some great trade deals for us. The USMCA, you know.
KILMEADE: Right.
TRUMP: That wasn't his strength. But he had a great dignity.
Great presidents. Well, Lincoln was probably a great president, although I've always said, Why wasn't that settled? You know, I'm a guy that -- it doesn't make sense, we had a Civil War.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, what was your reaction to that, Brian?
STELTER: I'm sorry, my eyebrows are so raised they're going to pop off my head, Kaitlan.
Look, Mr. Art of the Deal has said this before. But there's no way to haggle over slavery, right? There was no way to negotiate with Southern states that insisted on keeping slavery legal. There was no compromise between enslaved and free.
Here's, I think the broader point about this. Trump is mostly playing it safe. He's mostly doing interviews with his friends, like on Fox & Friends.
But when he does these softball interviews, they oftentimes get him in trouble. He talked about the enemies from within, with Maria Bartiromo, last weekend. And almost a week later, Kamala Harris is using that against him.
I'm told that Trump has at least one more Fox Interview coming up, probably a lot more than one, in the next two weeks. But these interviews sometimes land him in hot water.
COLLINS: I liked the part where he said that Reagan was president when he was a child, even though he was, I think, in his 30s or 40s, when Reagan was actually in office.
STELTER: 30s.
COLLINS: That was another -- it was another moment during that interview. Brian, I do want to ask you before you go.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: We talk about the consequences that we've seen, speaking of Fox, at Fox, and other right-wing outlets have faced when they aired election lies, in 2020. Big questions about what that's going to look like this time around.
But Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is now making false claims about Dominion voting machines, claiming that they can flip votes in her state, even though that's been debunked many times, and we've seen lawsuits settled over claims like that.
STELTER: That's right.
COLLINS: I just wonder what you make of that happening after settlements like the ones that we've seen.
STELTER: This is a preview of coming attractions, Kaitlan. But it's not a comedy. It's a horror movie. This is a thriller. We're going to see this play out for the next few months.
And Dominion is being vigilant, because they were smeared and slandered, back in 2020. So, this time around, just as they did in 2020, they're trying to get the facts out very aggressively.
Last night, Elon Musk lied about Dominion. And the company released a statement. We might be able to put it on screen, saying what Elon Musk was saying, it was totally provably false, and quote, These are not matters of opinion. These are verifiable facts.
And you know what happened, again tonight? Dominion released another statement, debunking Marjorie Taylor Greene's lies.
[21:50:00]
Here's why it matters, Kaitlan. Dominion's creating a paper trail. They are proving the facts. They are getting the facts out there in the public. And that sets the groundwork, it lays the groundwork for even more lawsuits in the future.
Because if they can say, we showed you the truth, we told you the truth, and you kept lying about us anyway? That makes it easier for them to win in a court of law. That's exactly what Dominion is doing, just as they did four years ago against Fox, they are getting ready, again, to possibly sue some of these big-lie liars.
COLLINS: Amazing, it's still happening, four years later.
Brian Stelter, thank you for your reporting.
STELTER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. As the world is waiting to see what Israel is going to do next, the fate of the hostages, and their families, is what's hanging in the balance. I'm going to speak to a family, whose Israeli- American son is still being held, in Gaza, right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Welcome back, live from Tel Aviv, tonight.
After the death of the leader of Hamas, the path forward for the release of those remaining hostages that are being held by Hamas, including some Americans, still remains unclear, this evening.
The Israeli Prime Minister has vowed to keep fighting until all of the hostages are back home.
My sources tonight are the parents of an American IDF soldier, Omer Neutra. He was taken hostage, on October 7th of last year, and is still in captivity.
And Ronen and Orna join me now.
Thank you both so much for being here.
With the death of Sinwar, does it make you worried that bringing home your son may be more complicated now? What are you hoping for tonight?
ORNA NEUTRA, MOTHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE OMER NEUTRA: We have mixed feelings.
Obviously, Yahya Sinwar deserved to die. He has a lot of blood on his hands, and he's the first one responsible for the October 7th attack, for the murder of over 1,200 Israeli citizens and 45 Americans on that day. And of course, he's been holding on to our son, and to another 100 hostages, for the past 387 days.
And the news of his death, it was -- it was well due. But it also raises great concerns about who's running the show, right now, and is there any kind of central command left at all? And if there are negotiations, who are we having them right now? And, of course, the lives, of our son, and the other hostages, are in great danger.
COLLINS: I wonder, what you would say to the Prime Minister, tonight, as he's weighing what the next step is here. What would your message be to Netanyahu?
RONEN NEUTRA, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE OMER NEUTRA: Well, for a year now, Prime Minister Netanyahu was claiming that Sinwar is the biggest obstacle.
And Sinwar is gone.
And we've been hearing that once he's gone, and all the military goals have been achieved, ceasefire should come to force. And we know that all the military activity caused the Hamas, to deplete, to the degree that there's hardly anything left there. And the real one goal that still needs to be achieved is return of the hostages. So, we're expecting Prime Minister, together with the mediators, Qatar, Egypt, possibly Turkey, to put the pressure on Hamas, and reach a deal, orchestrated by President Biden, and make it a shorter deal than originally proposed, and bring all the hostages back. And the sooner, rather than later. As we know, as we've seen a month ago, when six hostages returned, dead, murdered by their captives, their conditions are extremely bad.
COLLINS: Yes.
R. NEUTRA: And they are starved. And it's time for them to get out of there. We are very, very concerned for our son.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously we can see, we can measure how long your son has been held. But the fact that he just celebrated -- didn't celebrate, I should say, but just had his second birthday, while he is being held. I can't even imagine how painful that is for you.
When you hear this idea of maybe Sinwar's body could be used as a bargaining chip to get the hostages back home. Is that something that the two of you would be in support of?
O. NEUTRA: Whatever is needed, Kaitlan. These hostages have been there for over a year, like you said. The last time we spoke with Omer was on October 6th, 2023. We were talking about his birthday and his plans for his birthday. And it's just unfathomable that he's been there over a year. And he just marked his second birthday in captivity. They need to come out of there.
And we really need strong leadership right now, to take action, be proactive, and make sure that everything is on the table, reevaluate all the paradigms that have been put forth, over the course of this year, and find a way to get them out. This is the time.
R. NEUTRA: Less talk and more action. The time is now.
COLLINS: Yes, unfathomable is a really good word for it.
I just want to say, for everyone, I'm so sorry for your pain. And we are hoping Omer comes home to you very soon.
Ronen and Orna, thank you so much for joining me tonight.
O. NEUTRA: Thank you, Kaitlan.
R. NEUTRA: Thank you. Good evening.
O. NEUTRA: Good night.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: You hear how the parents put it there, saying, whatever it takes, they want to get their son home. Of course, he's an Israeli- American as well, who is being held. That is what the parents here, in Israel, are thinking tonight, as they are waiting to see what the Prime Minister is going to do next. I'll continue reporting, here from Tel Aviv.
Thank you for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
