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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Names Susie Wiles As White House Chief Of Staff; Sources: Missouri AG Under Consideration To Be Trump's AG; All-Out Battle For Positions Playing Out At Mar-A-Lago. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 07, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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SCOTT GALLOWAY, HOST, "THE PROF G POD": -- is about to happen, vis-a- vis, a massive increase in deficits from Donald Trump.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I know you are speaking metaphorically, I think, about the club stuff.
Scott Galloway, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
GALLOWAY: Thanks, Anderson. Good to see you.
COOPER: And that's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, ANCHOR, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins, and this is The Source live from West Palm Beach, Florida tonight.
That island behind me is the equivalent of the center of the political universe right now. That's where at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago club, the President-elect is preparing to regain power, starting with who will be working for him. I have new reporting for you tonight on the all-out war that is already playing out between those vying for the top jobs in Donald Trump's cabinet and inside the West Wing. One person likened it to the Hunger Games, except it's playing out on the patio of Mar-a-Lago.
Almost immediately after it became clear on Tuesday night that Donald Trump was on his way to re-election, phones started ringing and those wanting major roles started forming alliances while trying to kill off others who were also under consideration for jobs that they are trying to get. Last night, I was told that almost every table at Mar-a-Lago was filled, and many people who are hoping to get a job have been seen on the grounds of the club in recent days, names like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, Tom Barrack, and Trump's transition co- chairs, who are the ones right now that are fronting this whole selection process.
Things are moving so quickly that several people have actually booked flights here to South Florida to ensure that they can get face time with Trump in the coming days, when many of these decisions are expected to be made. One of the biggest jobs, though, has already been filled tonight. Trump announced earlier that his campaign manager and co-chair, Susie Wiles, will become the first ever woman as the White House Chief of Staff. For those of you who aren't familiar, Susie Wiles was the one that Trump called to the mics during his victory speech in the early hours of Wednesday morning.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: Susie and Chris, the job you did, Susie, come Susie, come here. Come here, Susie. Susie likes to stay sort of in the back, let me tell you, the ice baby. We call her the ice baby, right? Thank you, Susie. I've never seen her be shy before. Susie.
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COLLINS: She did not speak. She ended up calling her co-chair, Chris LaCivita, to the mic. But, I'm told that sources -- by sources that Trump was urged to move quickly tonight in naming a Chief of Staff faster than he did in 2016. He named his Chief of Staff the following Sunday after he was elected because they argued that it allows for there to be a power center, instead of having everyone call Trump directly, as they are trying to get these jobs that I just told you about. Though, of course, we are talking about Donald Trump here. And as we know, he often likes to be right in the middle of the battle.
With me here in Florida tonight is CNN's Kristen Holmes, has been reporting on the transition staffing battle that's underway on Susie Wiles. She might be someone that people aren't familiar with, but she is a real powerhouse in terms of influence on Donald Trump and running his campaign, and just being around him in the last four years, but especially the last two, most critically.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, one thing to keep in mind about her is just how loyal she has been. I mean, there was a time in 2021 when nobody would talk to Donald Trump, or at least most people were trying to distance themselves from him. She was by his side. I remember being at Mar-a-Lago when those election results came in in 2022. He threw a fit because he was watching them come in. He thought his candidates were going to win. They did not. She was there by his side. I remember seeing the announcement just two weeks later that he made that he was going to be running again. She was by his side. She has put up with a lot from former President Donald Trump. We know she has been subpoenaed. She has been through the ringer, and she has stuck with him.
Now, one of the things that she does best is she says that she controls the chaos. She knows Donald Trump. She understands she has never going to have full control over him, and she is not going to try, but she believes that she can control the people around him and the chaos around him. And she is a very interesting pick. And one of the things I want to point out about your reporting that I find so fascinating is this power center idea, because that was really her job on the campaign too.
COLLINS: Yeah.
HOLMES: I mean, people go to her to get to him, and she had created an environment where people felt like they needed to go through her to get to him, unlike in previous campaigns and administration, where people just try to get to him directly.
COLLINS: Yeah. But, our colleague, Steve Contorno, had interesting reporting about basically she had conditions on taking the job. It reminded me of when General John Kelly became Chief of Staff, and he was saying he didn't want it to be how it was before, when others were running it, because he wanted to assume full control over who is coming into the West Wing, who is coming into the office, because as Donald Trump, as we know, he is easily influenced by the last person he speaks to.
HOLMES: Yeah. And I love that part about Steve Contorno's was reporting about the clown car not just showing up at the White House, because part of what Susie Wiles did on the campaign was control the chaos, and that meant limiting access to Donald Trump.
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She, for most of the campaign, controlled the flight manifest, so that she would always know who is going to be --
COLLINS: Who gets on the plane.
HOLMES: -- on the plane and who is going to have access to him at that time, and at times trying to stop certain people. Now, obviously, she couldn't always stop everyone from getting on the plane, and she has told people around her, she picks her battles when it comes to the former President, but she has created a role for herself in which she controls the chaos, or at least manages it when it's around him.
COLLINS: Yeah. And of course, Trump had four Chiefs of Staff in his first term. Just for comparison, Biden has had half of that. He has had two Chiefs of Staff since he has been in office.
But, when it comes to the other top jobs that we're looking at here, obviously, attorney general is a really big one. What is the latest that you've heard on who is going for that and what that decision- making process looks like?
HOLMES: Yeah. So, I mean, the reason why that's so important is because of what Donald Trump himself has said, and we know that he wants to basically extend -- expand the power of the executive. We -- technically, the Department of Justice falls under the executive branch. However, it has operated independently to not look like it is currying favor to the White House or doing things at the President's behest. Donald Trump wants to change that. So, part of the reason that the AG is so important is he has to pick somebody who is going to go along with that, who is going to help dismiss the cases against him, who is going to look into firing Jack Smith, something he said that he wants to do. So, that person is going to be critical.
Now we know a couple of names that have been on the list. I believe you had one name that you reported out today as well, but we've also heard Senator Mike Lee. And --
COLLINS: Yeah.
HOLMES: -- one of the interesting things about Mike Lee is that one of his -- someone who is very close to him is actually running the personnel side of the Justice team for the transition. So, there is that. That's interesting. We also heard John Ratcliffe --
COLLINS: Yeah.
HOLMES: -- as somebody who was in the running for that. I think that right now, the conversations are still being had. He is still being vetted, and Donald Trump is taking a lot of advice incoming, as you said, working the phones.
COLLINS: Yeah. The one name that Manu Raju and I heard it was the Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey. He actually just got reelected --
HOLMES: Yeah.
COLLINS: -- on Tuesday night to his first full term. He has been serving in that role for two years. He has sued the Biden administration over the student loans. He is on Fox News a lot. So, it's not surprising that he is a name. But, obviously, this is the position J.D. Vance said, whoever is the attorney general, he believes is actually even more important than his job, which is obviously notable, given he is a heartbeat away from the presidency.
HOLMES: Well, I mean, one of the things Donald Trump wants to do is he weaponized the Department of Justice. He wants to use it for retribution. He wants to clear his name. He wants to have complete controls and extension. He never understood in his first term why that was the case. I mean, part of the reason he famously fired Jeff Sessions was because he couldn't understand why Jeff Sessions was not going along with what he wanted to do. So, this is going to be the opportunity that Donald Trump didn't have last time around, to grow the power of the executive and extend -- effectively treat the Department of Justice as an extension of that.
COLLINS: What's interesting about this is the background check process of all of this. These are obviously very critical positions, national security clearances come with a lot of them, and because the Trump administration or the Trump team has not signed these ethics agreements or memorandums of understanding with the Biden team, the FBI is not doing background checks on anyone, which typically, that's a process they could have started a few months ago --
HOLMES: Right.
COLLINS: -- and I had heard that they were floating doing their own background --
HOLMES: Yes.
COLLINS: -- checks, which obviously is not equivalent to the FBI level. HOLMES: It's -- they're trying to figure out loopholes for getting
around the background check. And I've heard this too, the same thing. It's, how do you not have the most extensive background check? You still use law enforcement, but there is a way to do it where you don't actually go through the rigorous process that they went through back in 2016. Now, as we know, a lot of his people that he put up in 2016 ended up not passing background checks. So, that was an issue, people getting escorted --
COLLINS: A huge issue.
HOLMES: -- of the White House. That was huge. Then the other part of this is it takes a long time, and Donald Trump does not really have the patience for that, and neither does this administration right now, or the people around him. They want to get these people in office as quickly as possible. That's why -- also, look, it's not just the administration, as you reported yesterday. They're drafting executive orders. They're doing everything they can that day one he has a staff in place. He has administrative jobs filled, and they have a policy ready to go for him to sign off on. And again, that includes trying to look for ways to speed up the background process check.
COLLINS: Yeah. A lot going on very quickly. Kristen Holmes, great reporting.
And on my Source tonight, my next source tonight, I want to talk to someone who actually worked inside the Trump administration and knows what this process that Kristen and I were just talking about is like.
Sarah Matthews was Trump's Deputy Press Secretary in his first term in office, and Sarah joins me now. Sarah, as you were just listening to this and hearing how the staffing process is going forward, what is it like to go through the kind of knife fight at times that even once they were inside the White House, this very much still existed as far as who is getting what job and who wants what position?
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY UNDER PRES. TRUMP: Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out, as you guys noted, him appointing Susie Wiles as Chief of Staff to kind of be the gatekeeper, as they are having these discussions, I think, will actually be really important and make it a more controlled process than what we saw play out during his first term, where people were constantly knifing each other and going behind each other's backs and trying to get face time with the President to push their agenda.
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And so, I think that the appointment of her shows me that -- from what I've heard, I've never met her. I've heard she is a true professional. And so, if she wants to try to keep the clown car out of the White House and keep them as far away from the Oval as possible, that's welcome news to my ears, because I do think that it's going to be really interesting to see how his cabinet and West Wing staff shakes out.
COLLINS: Yeah. But, as far as is the idea of you can control what happens around, to a degree, I mean, I should note, Kristen was talking about her controlling the manifest, Laura Loomer did get on the plane, who was a 9/11 -- who has pushed 9/11 conspiracies, was there going to the 9/11 Memorial. So, obviously, there are limits to what people can do. I mean, what would you say in terms of someone's ability, from your view, is watching someone as Chief of Staff, how effective they have been in doing that in the past?
MATTHEWS: Well, you guys noted this earlier in the program that General Kelly also had a list of demands when he accepted the job as White House Chief of Staff, and one of those was that he wanted to control who went into the Oval Office as well. For him, that worked for a couple of months, but it proved to be too difficult to try to constantly have to gate keep who was going into the Oval and talking to the President, while also doing the day-to-day tasks of being the White House Chief of Staff. It's one of the most demanding jobs. And so, we'll see if she is able to keep up with it.
Obviously, she sometimes was able to keep the kind of crazy people like the Laura Loomers off the flight manifest, and convince Trump of that. And then, as you noted, sometimes Laura Loomer showed up to a 9/11 memorial ceremony with him. So, I think it's going to be interesting if they're able to kind of contain the chaos. But, I think in Trump world, it is just constant chaos, and you just learn to adapt and live within it, and you have to pick and choose your battles, of what you go to battle with on him, and how you push back.
And so, I'm hopeful that he will surround himself with people of good character who do push back on his worst instincts. But, that was one of the warnings that I gave of why I spoke out against my former boss, was I am worried about what a second Trump term looks like, who he'll put in his cabinet, and who will be in the West Wing and have his ear.
COLLINS: Well, and in terms of people who might offer conflicting advice or push back on something and be that restraining kind of measure, as you noted there, I mean, people who are pro-Trump still and still in his orbit would describe those people as disloyal and people who are working against his agenda, and they tried to institute a bit of a loyalty test the first time Trump was in office. I wonder what you expect government employees to face this time as a litmus test in this hiring process that's underway right now.
MATTHEWS: Yeah. I imagine that it's going to be a pretty extreme process. I mean, look, he wanted to go through a Schedule F and do the mass firings of federal employees across our workforce during the first term, and didn't get away with it. And so, I do think, in a second term, that's going to be something he'll likely pursue. He is going to want to put these loyalists in place. So, they're not going to be looking at the qualifications for the job or competency or experience. It's going to come down to loyalty. And will you enact the agenda that he wants? And did you vote for him? And will you support him at all costs?
And so, it is going to be interesting to see the reshaping of our federal workforce and who is willing to kind of almost put themselves out there on the extreme and do whatever he wants, like we noted with an attorney general who would be willing to potentially pursue these prosecutions against Trump's political enemies, as he deems them. And so, it wouldn't necessarily be what the job and mission typically is of the Department of Justice, but it's going to be reshaped to be what Donald Trump wants. And so, it's going to be interesting to see who lands in --
COLLINS: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: -- these roles and what types of litmus tests there are to get these jobs.
COLLINS: Yeah. Trump has claimed in recent days that he did not direct anyone defer to go after Hillary Clinton. He obviously did with Jeff Sessions. It's widely known.
But, Sarah, just -- you worked in the press office when I was in the press corps. For people who don't know, in the West Wing, you can actually go up near the Press Secretary's Office as a reporter, stand out there, ask questions. You see the other press staff that is out there. As someone who sat there and watched what happened in the first Trump term, who resigned because of January 6th, what would your advice be to people who do take jobs, who maybe are younger and closer to your age, who do take jobs in a second Trump term?
MATTHEWS: I took a job in the first Trump term because I didn't always agree with everything that he said or did, but I believed in the agenda and.
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And so, I wanted to be there to help pursue that and to be a voice for what I saw as Middle America and those that were supporting Donald Trump. But, as you noted, I lost faith in him after his refusal to accept the 2020 election results and then his lack of action on January 6. And for me, that was a red line. And so, I think if you're going into the second term and you want to work for him because of similar reasons, maybe you support the agenda, then you might just need to ask yourself, what are those red lines that I will not cross? And I think that -- the thing I've learned about D.C. is that usually people's red lines disappear. I think that oftentimes careerism and opportunism is what succeeds in this town. And for me, I needed to keep my integrity, and I wasn't willing to cross that line.
But, I would hope that in a second Trump term that he and his staff remember why he was put back into power, and I don't think it was to pursue petty grievances and political fights like him going after his political enemies. It was because the American people were upset with the Biden administration over two things, the economy and immigration. And so, I hope that they'll focus on these things that put them back into power, and they'll try to enact solutions for the American people, rather than kind of going along with the crazy ideas and letting Trump pursue his worst instincts. But, only time will tell if my warnings about a second Trump term proved true.
And I just think, though, if people are staffing him, I hope it is people of good character going in and surrounding him, and not the Laura Loomers and the Mike Flynns and the RFK Juniors who I'm worried about having his year.
COLLINS: Yeah. Sarah Matthews, thank you for that.
Up next, new words from the President-elect tonight on his plans to carry out a mass deportation, now that he has been elected. Why he says there is no price tag to that? His former acting Homeland Security Secretary is here. Plus, new reporting tonight on how Chinese hackers were able to access the phone of Donald Trump's lead criminal defense attorney. That's ahead.
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COLLINS: Tonight, when asked about his mass deportation pledge, the President-elect told NBC News, and I'm quoting him now, "It's not a question of a price tag. It's not -- really, we have no choice on the matter."
My next source tonight served in a key cabinet position and has said he is open to serving again under a President Donald Trump. Chad Wolf was Trump's Acting Secretary of Homeland Security, and he joins me now, and it's great to have you here.
First on that, have you had any conversations with Trump or anyone on the transition team about joining the second Trump term?
CHAD WOLF, ACTING DHS SECRETARY FOR PRES. TRUMP: I have not, Kaitlan. It's good to be with you tonight.
COLLINS: But, are you still open to doing so? I believe you had told me that in one of our last conversations.
WOLF: Well, absolutely. I think it's always a -- it's an honor to be asked to serve, and I would certainly do that if asked. But, again, I've not had any conversations to that effect.
COLLINS: OK. Well, keep us updated, obviously. But, on the matter that you did serve there previously, especially DHS, obviously a critical agency and one that Donald Trump is certainly focused on, he has made this pledge to carry out mass deportations on day one. I've heard from other officials. Now that that he has been elected, can you just kind of walk us through how that would work, what that would actually look like in its implementation?
WOLF: Well, I think it's important to remember that DHS every day removes individuals. They did that under President Trump in his first term. They've done that under President Biden, although at much lower levels. So, this idea of removing individuals or deporting individuals, it's not a new concept. And again, the department does this every, every day. And so, this idea of mass deportations, we certainly heard the President talk about that. It's not just one day or one week or even one month, but it's a sustained effort over a period of time. And so, the department has officers dedicated to this. They have resources dedicated to this, detention beds dedicated to this.
And so, it's actually letting ICE officers do the job that they were hired and trained to do, as well as supplementing those officers resources with other state and local, other federal law enforcement to, again, prioritize the targets, making sure that we are getting the criminals out of American communities and removing them back to their home countries.
COLLINS: Yeah. And of course, as you noted, ICE already does that. They check in anytime someone, an undocumented immigrant is booked into a jail or a prison facility. I mean, they know that, and they're alerted, and that removal process has started. So, given that, is a mass deportation needed, if this is already being carried out to a degree, as you say?
WOLF: Well, it's being carried out in such low numbers, right? We have the most illegal encounters over a three and a half to almost four- year period, the highest illegal alien population. And at the same time, we have the lowest removals or deportations from the interior of the country, from cities like New York and Chicago and Dallas and elsewhere. Most of the returns today are coming right at the border. They're not actually removing dangerous criminals from communities throughout the country.
So, this idea of we're actually going to target and we're going to remove individuals, dangerous individuals, at a level that we have not seen over these last four years, I believe that's what the President continues to talk about, is making sure that we're protecting American and American communities from these individuals that shouldn't be here, to begin with, and on top of that, they've committed, in most cases, a serious crime, and they need to be removed.
COLLINS: But, on that sense of there are people here to be deported, I mean, you just noted ICE is already doing that, and certainly, if there are criminals, if they're violent, I mean, are you saying that there are violent criminals who are just around and that they are not being deported knowingly, even though ICE knows that they are here in this country?
WOLF: Well, that's exactly what I'm saying. I think if you look at the enforcement priorities of the Biden administration under DHS at this time, you have to be a serious felon to be removed from the country and have that be a priority, not just a felon, but a serious felon.
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And so, I personally disagree with that. I think if you're any felon, you should probably be removed. Again, you're here illegally. You commit a felony. You've been convicted of it. You should be removed again. And so, there are certain things that you need to look at. And it's not just easy as saying, well, all criminals are being removed because we know they're not. Their own data says that that's not the case.
And so, what President Trump is talking about is, let's remove these individuals that are very dangerous and obviously dangerous to American communities. That's not being --
COLLINS: Yeah.
WOLF: -- done today. They say it's being done, but if you just look at the raw data, that is not the case.
COLLINS: OK. Just on this, I don't think anyone would disagree that violent criminals who do not live -- or not legally allowed to be in the United States should be removed. I don't think anyone would fight a Trump administration on that. But, I think the question is, when they hear mass deportations and it's printed on signs --
WOLF: Yeah.
COLLINS: -- at the Republican Convention, the question is, who is next after those criminals? Because there are 11 other million people who live in the United States, who are either married to --
WOLF: Sure.
COLLINS: -- U.S. citizens or the parents of U.S. citizens. Are those people who would be eligible under mass deportations?
WOLF: Well, look, what we know that this administration has done is they've taken whole classes of individuals and basically said, you're not a priority, or you're not -- it's not even you're not a priority, is you won't be removed. I think that's a terrible way to look at that. If folks break the law, they shouldn't be exempt from the law. But, you do need to prioritize, right? And so, we've talked about the criminal aliens. There is over 1.5 million orders of removal in this country. These are individuals that have gone through the court system, and an immigration judge has said that you need to remove yourself from this country, and they've decided, for whatever reason, to remain here in the United States. They should be a priority for removal, in my opinion.
Again, I don't speak for the President, but they should be a priority. They've gone through the due process system. And so, you can look at a lot of these different categories of individuals. Some, again, have gone through the system. Others have not. Others are criminals. Others are a danger to communities, and that's what --
COLLINS: But, what about the ones who are not --
WOLF: -- you need to prioritize and start moving out.
COLLINS: -- criminals, who are parents of U.S. citizens? Would they be removed?
WOLF: Again, every case is different. There is different scenarios, but probably not a high priority. But, that's not to say that they should be exempt. That's the question I get a lot. Well, should this case or this type of in the person be exempt from the law? The answer is no. No one should be exempt from the law because that just invites more unlawful behavior at the end of the day. But, you do need to prioritize based on your resources. And again, I haven't talked to the President, but --
COLLINS: OK.
WOLF: -- I think he has been very clear about wanting to protect American communities from dangerous individuals.
COLLINS: So, you think that those should be qualified as to be deported in that sense? But, can I ask you, because I interviewed Ron DeSantis in a town hall when he was running against Trump for the Republican nomination, and he was critical of Trump, because Trump had already pledged to do this before, to deport every illegal immigrant from the United States. That was part of his 2016 pledge. And DeSantis said, he didn't do that, that he actually deported fewer people than Obama did when he was in office for eight years. Obviously, you were there at the time. What would you say to people who --
WOLF: Yeah.
COLLINS: -- maybe voted for Trump for this issue, but are questioning if he'll live up to it?
WOLF: Well, I believe he will. And again, we've removed quite a number of individuals and they always compare it back to the Obama administration. And you see the numbers, and what they did there is they counted a lot of folks that just had come over the border. They remove them quickly, most under expedited removal, and they count that as a deportation or a removal. And that's simply not the case.
We're talking about removing dangerous people from the interior of the country, most that have been released by this administration. And I think that, again, that is what the President is talking about. And I don't -- I didn't hear Governor DeSantis' comments. But, I take exception to the say that we did not do our job. We did not remove individuals, because if you go back and you look at it, not only we were driving the numbers down at that border, we were holding people accountable and removing them back. We had Remain in Mexico, and we had other agreements in place.
COLLINS: Yeah. Those are the words of a Republican governor, obviously here.
Secretary Chad Wolf, thank you for your time. Keep us updated on whether or not you have any conversations with the Trump team.
WOLF: Thank you. Appreciate it.
COLLINS: Up next, President Biden addressed the nation today. We heard from him after he once was driving Trump from the White House, now a reversal of positions there. Some in his party are now blaming Biden for Trump's return. We'll bring you that reporting next.
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COLLINS: Tonight we're hearing from our sources a lot of anger and frankly frustration inside the Democratic Party, as some sources are telling CNN that officials are pointing fingers at people like the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer or California Governor Gavin Newsom for not launching primary bids against President Biden, when, of course, he ran for office. Dean Phillips, I think, would like a word with some of those sources. He was coming out and saying that he did not believe Biden should run for re-election.
Here is what the President himself had to say about this today in his first public address since Harris lost on Tuesday night.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Campaigns are contests of competing visions. The country chooses one or the other. We accept the choice the country made. We're leaving behind the strongest economy in the world. I know people are still hurting, but things are changing rapidly. Together, we've changed America for the better. The American experiment endures. We're going to be OK, but we need to stay engaged.
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COLLINS: My political sources are here, former Senior Advisor to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Karen Finney, Republican Strategist David Polyansky, and CNN Political Commentator S.E. Cupp. And it's so great to have all of you on this night, because there is so much kind of a reckoning, Karen, it almost seems it is happening inside the Democratic Party, as people are really trying to figure out what it is that went wrong here.
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Just -- Karen, obviously, you're so involved. What have you heard --
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, & SENIOR ADVISOR, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yeah.
COLLINS: -- from people about how they're looking at this in hindsight?
FINNEY: Well, certainly, Kaitlan, there is a lot of finger pointing, which, having been through this many times before, I'm thinking specifically about 20 years ago in 2004 when John Kerry lost, I think it's not constructive to be pointing fingers, but instead to take a step back and sort of really look at the data and look at what happened, and then go ask people, ask voters, what was it? I'm hearing it was the money. It was not enough ground game. It was this person or that person. And again, I think that's the easy answer when you're angry and frustrated. I think the harder questions that need to be asked are going to take a little bit more time.
COLLINS: Yeah. And S.E., when you hear President Biden there talking about the economy and the state of it and how good it is when you actually do drill down on the numbers, it's true. But, the problem for Democrats is that a lot of Americans did not feel that. Even though they tried to message it, obviously, the question is, what that messaging, how it actually came through and translated to people? I wonder what you make of kind of the autopsy that's happening in these last few days.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there needs to be an autopsy, and I'm not sure that that is happening. I know that there is a little sort of what happened and how did we get here. But, having been through an autopsy, I worked on the 2012 autopsy for Republicans, I can tell you, you learn a lot about your party when you're willing to tough some face -- when you're willing to face some tough facts and harsh realities, and those realities have to do with three different things, candidates, messages and policies.
Now, I know that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris were probably not the first choice of a lot of base Democratic voters. So, they're willing to look at candidates. They need to be willing to look at messaging. You just brought that up, going out and saying the economy is great when most people don't feel that is a bad message. But, the thing I think they're going to be most reluctant to look at are policies, and there are some policies that Democrats have been espousing that are not working and are very unpopular, economic, immigration, on crime. Those are the things that Democrats are going to have to reconcile if they actually want to be where most voters are, not MAGA voters, most voters.
COLLINS: Well, and I was thinking about that today because former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg wrote this OpEd, David, and he was basically arguing it's up to Republican lawmakers to fight against -- he talked about across-the-board tariffs that Trump has pledged to put in place. He said legislators should instead revive a bipartisan reform effort when it comes to immigration. And he ultimately wrote in this OpEd, quote, "Dealing with a reckless president is an exhausting job, but it can and must be done, and it's a job for members of both parties."
But, I think if you look at Republicans on Capitol Hill, I mean, Mike Johnson flew down to Mar-a-Lago when it was clear Trump was winning, so he could celebrate with him, and we've seen, obviously, Senate leadership change for Republicans. It doesn't seem necessarily like there is going to be an appetite to kind of stymie the Trump agenda on Capitol Hill.
DAVID POLYANSKY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, with all due respect to the mayor, this isn't a time that Republicans have to compromise. The President and a Republican Congress walk in with a massive mandate. I mean, imagine this a week ago, as we were talking about this, most Democrats scoffed at the idea that Donald Trump could win the popular vote. They certainly didn't think he was going to exceed 300 electoral votes and potentially sweep the entirety of the blue wall. That's a mandate. And so, it's not up to Republicans to go in there and do anything other than what they've championed, what they campaigned on, and what ultimately a vast majority of voters, not just in battleground states, but all across the country are sending them to Washington to do.
The key for Democrats, and I'm not going to give them much advice, but is to look in the mirror and recognize, when you become a party of voters that are $100,000 plus every year in salary, when you become a party of college grads and post graduates only, and are bleeding union workers, bleeding Hispanics, bleeding first-time voters and bleeding union workers, you've got a real fundamental problem that I think S.E. touched on. This isn't just about candidates. It's certainly not just about message. It's about what you stand for as a party. And right now, they are wholly out of touch where the country is at.
FINNEY: Can I, Kaitlan, just --
COLLINS: Yeah. A lot of --
FINNEY: -- add? Because when we went through --
COLLINS: Yeah. Go ahead, Karen. Final thought.
FINNEY: Yeah. When we went through this in 2005, one of the things that I think is really important is just talk about our values. I mean, actually, a majority of Americans and independents agree with many of the policies that Joe Biden put in place.
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But, I -- my concern is I don't believe we have been -- we have stayed close to connected to people and talk to them about our values and the values that we share, not just from a policy framework. I think there were a lot of voters in this election who felt like Donald Trump saw them that maybe don't feel seen and heard by the Democratic Party, and that is something that needs to change. And I do hope that we do the tough work of asking those questions.
But, the last thing I'll say, Kamala Harris ran a phenomenal 107-day campaign. So, I want to make sure, as we talk about this, let's acknowledge, she was dealt a tough hand and did a phenomenal job.
COLLINS: Yeah. And that was some of the criticism that maybe if she had had longer, it would have been different. Of course, that is a question we'll never know.
Thank you all so much for being here. Great to hear from all of you.
Up next here, we're going to have my new reporting on a successful hack of the lead attorney's phone for Donald Trump. What it could mean and the implications it could have? We'll speak to an expert right after this.
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COLLINS: In the days leading up to Tuesday's election, sources are telling us tonight that one of Donald Trump's lead attorneys was informed by the FBI that Chinese hackers had compromised his cell phone.
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We are told these hackers were able to obtain voice recordings and text messages from Todd Blanche. You'll remember him. He was the attorney who defended Donald Trump during his hush money trial. Now, our sources are telling us tonight that none of the compromised material is related, actually, to Trump himself. But, this is a moment in which Blanche is just the latest target in what appears to be a wide-ranging operation going after both Republicans and Democrats. It's a list so far that we've reported on that includes Trump himself, J.D. Vance, Jared Kushner and Eric Trump, members of the Harris campaign, senior Biden administration officials as well. An important note, Blanche is the first that we know of who was actually compromised. The other names that I just mentioned there, we are told were targeted, but not clear if those targets were actually successful.
My source tonight is the Chief Intelligence Officer for SentinelOne, Chris Krebs, who you'll remember, served as the nation's top cybersecurity official at the Department of Homeland Security, and it's great to have you here, Chris, because this is the first time that we know these hackers were actually successful in going after someone, obviously a key name in Todd Blanche. How damaging do you think this is?
CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY, & CHIEF INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, SENTINELONE: Well, of course, lawyers always have sensitive information, right? The attorney-client privilege allows and facilitates the transfer of sensitive information from the client to the attorney. So, it's quite possible that in his device, or at least in the email app on his device, there is attorney-client privilege protected sensitive information that ultimately could be embarrassing. It could undermine a legal strategy or a negotiation. But, it does seem that they got into an unencrypted messaging service, text messages, SMS, for instance, and maybe voice memos on the device. So, it may have dodged a bullet here. But, nonetheless, it is very concerning that we have Chinese actors that are in the network and down at the device level. It's very concerning.
COLLINS: Well, and I should note, Blanche changed his number as a result of this, according to our reporting. J.D. Vance, he was another who was targeted, who I also believe changed his number as well. I mean, these are people who are taking these steps. But, what else are hackers, these actors looking for when they're targeting someone, not just an attorney, but other officials? What are they trying to glean?
KREBS: Well, to your point about the phone numbers, that is one of the mitigation steps that I have heard, that others that have been targeted have been advised to do by the FBI and others, get rid of that device, change your service, change your phone number. It can help kind of break any of that connection with the threat actor. The threat actor here is a Chinese actor, possibly out of the Ministry of State Security. It's an intelligence service.
So, what we're seeing here is classic espionage. They're trying to find out secrets. They're trying to find out who might be in sensitive positions or important positions in the next administration, trying to figure out what the foreign policy or economic policy or even military plans for the next administration, particularly here, how is the Trump administration, the next iteration going to deal with China, as we continue to see trying to become more aggressive in physical space as well as in cyberspace.
COLLINS: Yeah. Quite a pressing threat.
Chris Krebs, thank you for that update there. We'll continue to focus that reporting.
And speaking of the changing global landscape that Trump is about to face when he retakes office, he has already spoken to more than 20 heads of state since becoming the President-elect, from Paris to Jerusalem to Beijing and beyond. The leaders have been scrambling to get in touch with Trump personally. Notably, Trump said today that he has not yet spoken to the Russian President Vladimir Putin.
My international source tonight is the former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty. And Jill, it's great to have you here. Putin did put out a congratulations, not personally, to Trump. He hasn't called him yet, but he did say on camera today, in a very meandering comments, that he talked to them, and I looked back in 2016, the first time they spoke then after that election was one week after the election, the following Tuesday, how soon do you think they'll speak this time around?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, & CNN FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, I think eventually they will. But, I think, Putin is being a little coy. He doesn't want to look as if he is kind of on pins and needles, waiting for the other President or the incoming President. But, I think he knows that the world is watching what he is going to do, and he played it. There was a lot of trolling in what he said. Some of it had to do with Ukraine. And essentially, that's the big deal. I mean, will trump be able or make that his priority when he gets into office? Obviously, it looks like it will, try to get a deal on Ukraine.
COLLINS: Yeah. Well -- and on that front, I mean, what does that look like now for Ukraine?
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Because I saw -- we had President Zelenskyy, who spoke with Trump, talking about what this looks like is the next steps for the war. His quote was that they are defending themselves against Russia, and that they need sufficient weapons, not support, and talks to do so. And his quote was, "Hugs with Putin will not help." I mean, what does Trump and Putin's relationship mean for the war here?
DOUGHERTY: No. I think it's really tough for Zelenskyy, and you can see what he is doing. On the one hand, he has to be worried, because Trump has said they could cut back on aid to Ukraine, etcetera, and that they would go for a deal. So, I think what Zelenskyy is trying to do is say, Mr. Incoming President, I'm quoting you back. You said peace through strength, and that's what I want. I want strength. And he -- that is something that might be hard for him to do, to try to really deal with Trump, with whom he has a complex relationship. But, I think what he is trying to do is get the United States, when Trump comes in, to be as strong as possible, and hope that that will try to get a deal. But, the deal for resiliency could be really difficult -- COLLINS: Yeah.
DOUGHERTY: -- if he has to give up (inaudible).
COLLINS: Yeah. That's right. Jill Dougherty, thank you for that.
And I should note, standby, because we do have new projections for the control of the House of Representatives. We will bring you those projections right after a quick break.
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COLLINS: CNN has some brand new projections we can now make in the House. Democrats have just picked up a seat in a hotly-contested race in New York 19. Democrat Josh Riley has taken down Republican there, Marc Molinaro. Those are some seats that House Republicans were concerned about. I should note there are two Republican holds that we are learning about tonight in Nebraska 2. Don Bacon has held on to his seat there that was in jeopardy. And in Pennsylvania's 10th district, Scott Perry has also held on. I should note, there are two Democrat holds in California and Oregon.
Right now, that leaves the balance of power in the House of Representatives, Republicans 212 seats. Democrats 199. However, 24 races are still uncalled tonight, as we are waiting to see what that margin in the House is going to look like. We'll keep you updated on those races.
Meanwhile, when it comes to the executive branch, as Donald Trump is preparing to return to the White House down the street from Capitol Hill, he is still scheduled for his sentencing in his New York hush money conviction. That's supposed to happen at the end of the month, November 26th, the week of Thanksgiving. But, after his win the other night, his attorneys are set to file a new brief to wash away this conviction, hoping that could extend to his other criminal cases as well.
I want to get perspective on whether or not all that is going to work. My legal source tonight is Judge Jill Konviser, a retired New York State Supreme Court Justice that has been our guide on all things Trump legal lately. And judge, obviously, this was already a difficult decision for Judge Juan Merchan here in terms of what he was going to do when it came to sentencing an ex-President. How do you expect Trump's win is going to affect the decision here on whether to sentence him at all?
JILL KONVISER, RETIRED JUDGE, & HAS KNOWN JUDGE JUAN MERCHAN FOR MORE THAN 15 YEARS: Well, I think it will affect the decision. Will he be sentenced? Yes. I was quoted in the paper as saying he won't be sentenced, but what I really said was he won't be sentenced to jail or prison. I believe next week, Tuesday, Judge Merchan will issue a decision on the pending post-trial -- post-conviction motion, the 330, as we call it, in New York, and I believe that -- I don't think it will go in the defendant's favor, because I don't think that's what the law says.
It doesn't mean that Supreme Court won't one day say Judge Merchan got it wrong, if that's the way he goes, but certainly, the case should not be tossed out at this juncture. I believe the case should then go to sentence just before Thanksgiving, as you said, and I think at that point, the sentence, because he is the President-elect, he cannot be sitting in jail at any point. That would be absurd. He will probably end up with a conditional discharge or an unconditional discharge, and the case will end. He'll take his appeal. The Supreme Court or whatever appellate court will do what they want, when they want. Remember, the Supreme Court isn't last because it's right. It's right because it's last. And we'll see what happens.
But, I believe because the defendant is the presidential, is the -- the defendant is the President-elect, he will serve no time in jail, at least not in New York State, and because he is in that position, it would be ridiculous to sentence him. He will therefore avoid that liability. We all deserve some finality. Defendants deserve finality. The American people, the New Yorkers deserve finality. This case should end. I think it will end with the sentence, and then the defense, notwithstanding any motions they file, will then take whatever appeals. They can't appeal --
COLLINS: Yeah.
KONVISER: -- now. They can't appeal the resentenced (ph).
COLLINS: And just to be clear, judge, when (ph) you're talking about next Tuesday, is they've made a motion on the Supreme Court's immunity decision, saying that this couldn't happen at all. That is what Judge Merchan is going -- we're going to hear from him on. You said you think there will be a conditional discharge. What would those conditions be? I mean, what -- in regular terms, what would Donald Trump be facing here if he is not going to be sentenced to jail?
KONVISER: Well, I don't -- like I said, this is my opinion. I don't think he will be sentenced to jail. I think that would be imprudent at this juncture, because of the defendant having won the election, but he might get an unconditional discharge, which means the felony counts stay, and that's the end of the case. A conditional discharge might mean anything from you can't get rearrested. Presumably, he won't. He is the President of the United States. There might be no condition, but certainly, he is not going to be picking up trash in Central Park, in my view.
COLLINS: Yeah.
