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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Picks Army Veteran, Fox News Host For Defense Secretary; Trump: Musk, Ramaswamy To Run " Dept. Of Government Efficiency"; Trump Picks Expectation-DNI John Ratcliffe For CIA Director; New CNN Projection For House Seat; Trump's Picks Could Complicate House GOP Control; Tomorrow: Trump & Biden Meet At The White House; Lara Trump Floated To Replace Rubio In the Senate. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 12, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: tube as well. I hope some of it makes you feel a little less lonely in your grief. That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow. "The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: And I'm Kalyn Collins live from West Palm Beach tonight where we have just gotten a burst of breaking news out of Mar-a-Lago as President-elect Donald Trump has announced his major picks for big cabinet positions, including army veteran and Fox News Television host Pete Hegseth as the next secretary of defense.
Hegseth is someone who served overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan and earned 2 Bronze Stars. Though, as some of my sources are noting tonight, when asked about this pick right off the bat, he has no prior government experience. He's now been chosen to head one of the most sprawling and critical positions in the federal government.
Hegseth, is someone you may remember, as an outspoken voice who was initially noticed by Trump, according to my sources, years ago when he was on Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, "FOX & FRIENDS WEEKEND" CO-HOST: We're not going to left -- we can let the left come over, control, and destroy our country.
These charges were crafted to completely disable Trump. That's exactly why all of these indictments are happening now. Make Trump look like a criminal, then next year in 2024, trap the leading Republican in court.
When I was reporting for Fox & Friends yesterday morning on the ground, I said a couple of times, you know, this feels like a constitutional tinderbox.
Mail-in-ballots, ballot harvesting, going past the constitutional prerogatives of state legislatures, that option has been taken from them too. And so what do what do folks expect to happen?
This is the result of, you know, a frustration that a lot of people feel that I frankly wasn't surprised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A lot more on that pick in a moment, including early reaction that we are hearing tonight from Republican senators on Hegseth's pick.
Also, just a short time ago, Trump revealed the roles for 2 of his biggest supporters, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, saying that they are going to lead an outside of government initiative that Trump is calling the Department of Government Efficiency.
The pair that you see here has now been tasked with slashing regulations and restructuring government agencies. But as you know, there are still a lot of questions this hour over how that's going to work because they will not be government employees, based on what we have heard and what this sounds like, and it won't actually be a government agency, which is something that would require congressional approval.
All of this is coming, though, after Trump said earlier he had picked former Congressman and the Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, as the next CIA director. Also have new reporting tonight about one position that has been at the forefront of Trump's choices that remains unsolved tonight, that we have not gotten any announcements about, and that's the job of attorney general.
Now Trump has thought about who he would install at the Department of Justice if he won reelection for months. But now after he has met with several candidates at his Palm Beach Club, the incoming President, I am told, is still wrestling with his decision about who to put in that job.
Trump has solicited the opinions of those in his inner circle at Mar- a-Lago. He's been making phone calls, I'm told, on the matter. He even met with at least one candidate today. But Trump has yet to come to a decision, mainly because he has not encountered anyone that he feels checks all the boxes that he's looking for.
A source told me earlier, really, right now, Trump has no favorites. Of course, he was most irritated with his two that he picked the last time he was in office, and that's why he's putting so much emphasis on this choice tonight.
My inside source tonight is Trump's longest serving National Security Adviser who also served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations before that, John Bolton joins me now. And, Ambassador, it's great to have you here. Just we are just getting this Pete Hegseth announcement. What is your initial reaction, for him in the role as the next Secretary of the Department of Defense?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, several quick points. I do think this is a loyalty choice or really the better word we should be using is fealty choice, that Trump feels perfectly comfortable that, Pete Hegseth will do what he asks him to do.
And that puts in the spotlight why along with the Attorney General, the Secretary of Defense position will be one of the most critical in a Trump administration. What will Pete Hegseth do the first time Trump tells him to put the 82nd Airborne onto the streets of Portland, Oregon?
Now what I hope Pete Hegseth does overall is get a massive increase in the Defense Department budget, which we need in a, challenging world. And if they can cut the domestic spending, even more so that we don't increase the deficit, that would be important too. But I think history will judge a Hegseth's secretaryship on how much he gets the defense budget up. And with Donald Trump, you never can tell.
COLLINS: Well -- and, you know, when I was thinking about this tonight, you know, Pete Hegseth has 2 Bronze Stars. He is a veteran who served in the Middle East, but he also most recently his -- you know, what his job has been is to be on Fox News on the weekends.
And, you know, Trump hired you after he saw you on television. I wonder how much you think that had to play in the role of someone who was this veteran turned Fox News Anchor?
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BOLTON: No. I'm sure that was a piece of it. It just a question when Trump watches people on television, what is he listening to or what is he paying attention to? I think I think Pete has a an admirable, really, a super record, for his time in the military. And, you know, give him a chance up to the point when Trump starts ordering the military to do illegal, immoral, unconstitutional things. That's where the real test of Pete Hegseth's character will come.
COLLINS: You know, given the fact looking at DoD, for people who don't know, it is the biggest federal agency. It has a massive billions of of dollar budget, obviously, a ton of employees. For someone who doesn't have government experience, if he gets confirmed, I mean, what is that going to be like? Do you think he's qualified for this role?
BOLTON: Well, I'm not sure anybody's qualified to be Secretary of Defense in the sense it's so big, that -- look at Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon, pretty big place, came to work for Trump. That didn't work out very well. So there's no guarantee.
Now the way to compliment a Hegseth's nomination is to do what Richard Nixon did in 1969. He named Mel Laird Secretary of Defense, and David Packard of the Hewlett Packard Corporation as deputy secretary.
So if you get somebody from the defense industry who knows how to help fix the Department of Defense, and a lot of reforms certainly could be made in the procurement area, if nothing else, that would actually help save money that could then be plowed back into better defense programs. Whether that's what's going to happen, obviously, we don't know.
And it highlights one point. For all these cabinet nominations, obviously, they're the heads of their departments, but it's going to be very important who the deputies and undersecretaries are. We're still a long way, I think, from knowing that.
COLLINS: Yeah. That's a really good point, on that. And on DoD itself, I mean, this announcement is coming after we had heard some reporting earlier today from the Wall Street Journal about this draft executive order that had been presented to the Trump team. It would basically create a board that would purge 3 and 4 Star generals.
If that happens and therefore circumvents the normal promotion process that is in place at the Pentagon, do you worry that would create a chilling effect on top brass?
BOLTON: Well, I think it it's a very real risk to politicizing the military, and it's been a fundamental precept for -- from the beginning of the republic, really, that the military is not subject to political influence.
Now there's a lot of criticism of what the Biden Administration has done. It's certainly within the Trump Administration's power to get rid of the woke programs and that sort of thing. But I don't think purging generals is the way to do it. I think you do it, by taking control of the department and getting rid of the, approaches that you don't like. That's true in any government department.
I don't think challenging the, nonpolitical status of the military is a good look or a good way for the administration to start.
COLLINS: Well, let me get your thoughts on another key pick today, which is who's going to be the next CIA Director. Trump has picked John Ratcliffe. He is a former congressman. For those who don't know, he served as the Director of National Intelligence when Trump was in office the last time. You had your own personal clashes with him. What do you make of his selection to this role?
BOLTON: Well, I think he is purely a loyalty pick, and, I don't I don't expect him to have to have really much of an impact other than carrying out Trump's orders. I worry that Trump is so -- he doesn't understand the intelligence community even after 4 years as President, and I'm worried that his picks in the intelligence community could do a lot of damage, inducing other countries not to share information with us. It's a very serious problem.
COLLINS: I keep hearing from you loyalty or as you put it, fealty. I mean, what, as someone who served in a Trump administration, what does it mean if Trump -- Trump's world would see it as people who don't circumvent him or don't block him from doing what he wants to do. But from your perspective, what does that mean if it is a bunch of loyalists that are filling -- heading these agencies and running them?
BOLTON: Well, it's not a question of blocking him. I mean, I think there were people in in his first year in office who made a point of saying they were stealing documents off his desk. I don't know if they did or not. I certainly never did that. It's not blocking a President when you say, Mr. President have you thought of the following ramifications, A, B, C, D, E, F, G? If you do that, have you considered the consequences? Have you looked at these other alternatives? That is serving the President. That's what his senior adviser should do.
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What Trump wants, I think, are yes men and yes women who don't give him, the knowledge, the information, and the range of potential decisions that he could make. They just -- they listen to what he says and they say, yes, sir, and away they go to implement it. That that is going to hurt Trump, fairly quickly and it's going to hurt the country too.
COLLINS: Yeah. I mean, these are also -- these are critical decisions that affect people. Because, you know, there was a bit of an uproar today here in Palm Beach after I reported, last night that South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem has been -- had been Trump's pick for the Department of Homeland Security, which obviously a massive agency that that doesn't just handle immigration, it's got Secret Service, FEMA, the Coast Guard, cybersecurity, counterterrorism, all of that is going to be under her purview if she's confirmed.
And obviously, you know, if a massive hurricane hits Florida and she's in charge of kind of directing that effort by overseeing FEMA, what do you think that is a good fit for that position?
BOLTON: Well, I think that's another, fealty appointment, and, you know, she's going to get on the job training of running one of the most important departments in the government. But let's face it, for Donald Trump, the only thing he cares about at Homeland Security is illegal immigration.
And I think Kristi Noem will be taking orders from Stephen Miller and Tom Homan at the White House, and her job will be expressly to say yes, sir, to the two of them.
COLLINS: Ambassador John Bolton, a lot of breaking news on those picks tonight. Thank you for joining us.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next, more on my new reporting on why one of the announcements we have not heard yet is who Trump wants to be the Attorney General. It's one of the most important decisions. We also have brand new reporting on RFK Jr. and what job he may get.
And speaking of Elon Musk, he is now openly advocating for Donald Trump's daughter-in-law and the RNC Co-Chair Lara Trump to be a U.S. Senator. We'll tell you which state ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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COLLINS: Tonight, one source is telling me Trump has no favorite so far when it comes to the candidates he's interviewed for his potential Attorney General. I'm told he's still wrestling with this decision after meeting with several of them. He met at least one of them today, but he has yet to come to a decision on what has been one of his biggest focuses over the last several months.
Joining me now is CNN's Evan Perez, who has also been following this very closely as our Senior Justice Correspondent. Evan, obviously, you know, we covered the Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr era. There's a reason Trump cares so much about who this pick is going to be and what they're going to do. What is the latest that you're hearing on this search process as its playing out?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think you see some of the people who are, vying for the position, who are now, like, you know, essentially, you know, going on television. You see, you know, people on, like, Mark Paoletta. You see, you know, they are all going in because they know that Donald Trump is watching television, and they want to make sure that they are at least heard.
But what you heard, Kaitlan, is absolutely the truth, which is that, you know, the former President wants to make sure that he gets this pick right. And so he's getting all of this advice from outside of the Justice Department.
And so, one of the things that -- like, you know, the things that he's keeping in mind is, you know, the priorities he has, which is that he wants to make sure that these, executive orders that he's going to issue on day 1, that those things are defended in court. He wants to make sure those investigations he wants to launch are being, you know, at least launched or at least being supported from the Justice Department. And so those are the things that are top of mind for the former President.
And so, what we expect is that, you know, this is going to take a few more days, but you see people who are now, you know, at least making sure that the former President sees themselves, you know, as essentially auditioning for this job. Matt Whitaker was on Fox News this afternoon reemphasizing what the priorities are if he becomes the Attorney General. He was there before as an Acting Attorney General.
And so we don't know where he's going to land, but the idea that this is the most important job and therefore one of the toughest jobs in the incoming administration is absolutely one of the things that I think everyone is focused on.
COLLINS: Yeah. And we can see why they're trying out on television, given how that's working out. Evan Perez, great reporting. Thank you.
Joining me now is another source tonight, deeply sourced on all things Trump and this Republican party. Semafor's Shelby Talcott joins me now. It's great to have you here. You know what Evan is saying there about, all of these AG candidates are going on TV to try to impress Trump and to, you know, be at the top of his mind.
Pete Hegseth, obviously, is someone who is also on television a lot, and he's a decorated war veteran, for sure. He has 2 Bronze Stars, and certainly noting that. But, you know, with him coming down, he was not on the initial shortlist of names that we had been hearing as a potential candidate. What have you heard on this?
SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Correct. This has been a complete surprise, not just to the reporters covering all of this, but I think to people Shortlist of names that we had been hearing as a potential candidate. What have you heard on this?
TALCOTT: Correct. This has been a complete surprise, not just to the reporters covering all of this, but I think to people close to Trump world as well. And I was told that this this position came together so quickly that Pete actually got a call last night and then did his interview today. And then, of course, the announcement came just a little while ago, a few hours after his interview.
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And so it just sort of underscores how quickly some of this is moving and also potentially how Donald Trump is making some of these decisions, which is in part based on things like TV.
COLLINS: So Pete Hegseth got a call yesterday. And for those watching, who are just keeping up with all the names, this is Trump's pick to run the Department of Defense and then came to Palm Beach today to do his interview.
TALCOTT: Yes. And then it was announced a few hours later that Donald Trump had picked him.
COLLINS: Wow. And you have also been doing reporting on RFK Jr., someone who has been hanging out here in Palm Beach. Has made clear he wants a job in the federal government, maybe not in in a cabinet position that would require senate confirmation. What are you hearing on that?
TALCOTT: Kaitlan, there's really big appetite internally from Trump world and from Donald Trump himself to appoint Kennedy into a position, into a confirmable position, whether that's HHS or another health agency. A lot of people close to Donald Trump who are high up in his orbit want to see Kennedy not just as White House czar, but as someone who will go in front of the senate and get confirmed.
Now, of course, there's a lot of questions over whether he is confirmable. Some -- there's some moderate Republicans who would likely probably push back on this confirmation process, but there's a lot of appetite internally for Kennedy to get a serious job in the Trump administration.
COLLINS: And do you have any insight onto how quickly that decision -- I mean, Trump has just now announced for Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy. He's clearly ticking through the people that he very much wanted to reward with federal government positions.
TALCOTT: I think the interesting thing about Kennedy is that the transition team is less involved because Kennedy is so close with Donald Trump. And ultimately, it's going to be up to Donald Trump is what I've been told. It's going to be less up to the transition team in this case, and it is Donald Trump's final say. And so, I think that they're still having discussions. The one of the problems is that Kennedy has a lot of ideas I've been told, and some of those ideas fit with different agencies better so that he hasn't nailed down what he would like to have as a position.
COLLINS: OK. And we'll keep checking that. You know, on Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, I think there are so many questions tonight about what this outside government group that is responsible for slashing basically excess waste as Trump phrased in his statement tonight in the federal government. How that would actually work, given it would be an outside group doing that? Yeah.
TALCOTT: We don't know. We don't have a lot of answers. We don't know who is going to -- how this is going to be funded. We don't know how big this operation is going to be. What we do know though is that it is fulfilling one of Donald Trump's big campaign promises, which is to put Elon Musk in charge of slashing some of this federal spending.
And we know that Elon Musk has said that he wants to cut $2 trillion. Now he has not said where that money -- where's that those cuts are going to come from. We also know Vivek Ramaswamy has been in favor of drastically slashing federal jobs. So that kind of gives you an idea, I think of where that they're going to start. But there's a lot of questions over how effective this is going to be.
COLLINS: Well and also slashing federal spending -- I mean, $2 trillion for just for everyone watching and doing a math on the back of a napkin. I mean, the federal government spent about almost $7 trillion last fiscal year, but over 5 trillion of that was for veterans benefits, Social Security, health care. I mean, if you are going to slash $2 trillion, even a $1 trillion, which is what the transition has said, I mean, you would not be able to do it without touching those very critical things.
TALCOTT: Yeah. And Elon Musk has expressed criticism over some of the spending, but the spending he's expressed criticism over is, like, the smaller spending. It's not the big bucks sort of thing. So he's also said that if he were to cut successfully $2 trillion that it would cause temporary hardship for Americans. So this is something that's really serious.
Again, it is an open question how effective this operation is going to be and what it's going to look like, but those are the goals.
COLLINS: We've gotten so much breaking news just in the last hour over these announcements. It seems like each evening right before the show is when there a lot of the developments or choices are being made. And given, you know, how quickly a Hegseth is happening, even though they had candidates lined up obviously for Department of Defense.
I mean, I just was texting with someone who is in Trump's cabinet in his first term, and I asked their thoughts on Pete Hegseth, and the response was, who, with, like, 4 question marks. Because I think people are people don't are not familiar with him. He's not someone who is an obvious choice in the sense of that. And so what does that say to you about, based on your reporting, how Trump's approaching this transition?
TALCOTT: I think Trump is approaching this, as you said earlier, with a focus on loyalty and a focus on picking people that he believes are going to do what he wants to do. He has said publicly that he feels like he messed up in this regard during his first administration, and he has said all along, he said it publicly, his campaign has said it publicly, they're looking for loyalists this time around. And so clearly, that is what Donald Trump and his transition team are focusing on over at Mar-a-Lago.
COLLINS: Yeah. Shelby Talcott, great reporting. You are going to be very busy. Thank you for that.
Up next, why some of Trump's cabinet picks are setting off the GOP jitters on Capitol Hill. We're going to be joined by a Republican who just won reelection for his thoughts next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some breaking news for you this hour. CNN has just projected that the Republican David Valadao will hold on to his California House seat.
Obviously, we are watching all of these final races very closely to see the majority on Capitol Hill. I want to get right to CNN's Harry Enten. And, Harry, can you just first bring us up to speed. Now that we have this win tonight in California holding on to that seat, how close are Republicans to having control of the House of Representatives?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Slowly but surely, they're making their way to the magic 218 seats, Kate. And look where the Republicans are right now. We projected they have won 216 seats, only 207 for Democrats, of course, 218 being the magic number.
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But, of course, how many seats are they ahead in? At this particular point, Republicans are ahead in 222 seats, a little bit more than the 218, but not so much. Democrats at 213. But I would not be surprised if the number for Republicans actually end up with is actually a little bit smaller. Why?
One should take you out to California where, of course, we just called that race. Let's take a look at some of the uncalled races. First off, let's take a look at this race. California's 13th District, just a little bit north of that race we just called, John Duarte, only up by 2 points. Still 73 percent of the estimated vote is actually reporting. Still 27 percent slot. That margin has been closing, Kaitlan. It's been closing.
There's also another race in California where the margin has been closing. Let's go down to Southern California. We're going to go right here to an Orange County seat. Michelle Steel at this particular point look at that.
Her advantage is only 2,272 votes. It's less than a point. The margin has been tighter and tighter and tighter, Kaitlan. So it wouldn't be surprising to me if Republicans actually end up a little bit closer to 220 than 222 seats.
COLLINS: OK. So that's how this works out. Obviously, they would still hold the majority, but it would be a slim majority. And I'm down here in Palm Beach where Trump has picked 2 house Republicans to serve in his administration. How could that complicate the math for Republicans?
ENTEN: Oh, how could it complicate the math? Well, first off, let's just say that Donald Trump, in fact, didn't put anybody in his cabinet, and we know that he's going to. Right now, the GOP may have a record small House majority. 222 would be the tie for the lowest ever since there were 50 states in the Union. If it dropped down to 221, it would be the lowest on record heading into a Congress.
Now you mentioned, of course, that he may be selecting 2 folks from Congress. Let's take a look. Right? Elise Stefanik and Waltz, of course, from Florida, for National Security Adviser and UN Ambassador, that could end up with a majority at 220, maybe 219 seats. My goodness gracious. What a small margin for error, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yeah. A small margin for error, obviously, means basically none. Harry Enten, thank you as always for breaking down the math with us.
ENTEN: Thank you, and enjoy the weather.
COLLINS: My Capitol Hill source tonight is a New York Republican who just won reelection in a competitive district. Congressman Mike Lawler joins us now, and it's great to have you here, Congressman.
Given what you just heard from Harry, you know, Republicans are poised. Right now it looks like to have a trifecta of control in Washington. But are you worried about the margins in the house given that two of your Republican colleagues have been picked to serve in Trump's administration?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, first, Kaitlan, let me say, President Trump made a great selection in Elise Stefanik for UN Ambassador and Mike Waltz for National Security Adviser. These are two tremendous members of congress who will do a phenomenal job in the administration.
Obviously, anytime you, lose members throughout the course of a Congress, it makes it, you know, a tighter margin and we've been living through that in this Congress. We have passed a lot of bills through the house, in a divided government, that frankly, Chuck Schumer and senate Democrats refused to move.
I think by having complete control in Washington with the White House, the Senate, and the House, it will make it easier to pass legislation with small majorities, but, obviously, there's very little room for error.
And so we're going to have to work through it as a conference, negotiate, find bipartisan compromise where, possible. And frankly, hopefully, many of my Democratic colleagues do not engage in resistance 2. 0, but actually work, with House Republicans and Senate Republicans to address many of the problems that we're facing as a country.
The American people spoke loud and clearly on last Tuesday that they want us to move in a different direction.
COLLINS: Yeah. And we've seen how even some Republicans have, you know, played a factor in that resistance there. We'll see, what that looks like. But you just mentioned Mike Waltz, who's going to be National Security Adviser; Elise Stefanik, US ambassador to the UN. What do you make of Trump's pick tonight to run the Department of Defense, Pete Hegseth? Any thoughts on him?
LAWLER: Well, I think the President is obviously putting forth his national security apparatus, including John, Ratcliffe at the CIA. I know there's been reports about Marco Rubio for Secretary of State, though I don't believe it's been finalized.
But, look, Pete Hegseth, obviously, is a decorated war veteran. 2 Bronze Stars, army accommodation medals, served in Iraq and Afghanistan, has been heavily involved in military affairs as well as veterans issues, and certainly, is extremely knowledgeable.
I think, obviously, there'll be a senate confirmation process, and he will, obviously be able to, better articulate his views on the Department of Defense.
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I think, there's no question we need to rebuild the military and reform the Department of Defense. We have been working through that this Congress to increase funding for the military, and really make sure that we are in a position to combat the unholy alliance between China, Russia, and Iran, that we have seen forming, around the globe.
So, you know, Pete Hegseth obviously, has a decorated military career, and I think he will, will be a strong choice along with, the other members that have already been announced, including Mike Waltz, Elise Stefanik, and John Ratcliffe.
COLLINS: Yeah. And as far as his views on the military, you know, we've already heard some of him, he is outspoken, he's on cable news every weekend. He did a podcast just a few days ago. Listen to what he said, there -- about women's role in combat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated. We've all served with women, and they're great. It just our institutions don't have to incentivize that in places where traditionally -- not traditionally, over human history, men in those positions are more capable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of him saying men in those positions are more capable than women serving in combat?
LAWLER: OK. I know many women, who have served in combat and served in our military, and they do a phenomenal job serving. I'll let him obviously, better articulate his view on that matter. But I think at the end of the day, we need a military that is prepared, that is ready for battle, and that obviously includes men and women serving, in our armed forces.
But, you know, obviously, over the course of our history, we have seen, obviously, predominantly men in the military serving in combat roles. But I think there's no question women have played a significant role in our armed forces and continue to do so. And, you know, we will we will obviously continue to have, a diverse role within our military for men and women.
But I think the bigger issue is military readiness, and making sure that our armed forces have the resources they need to do the job.
COLLINS: Yeah. And, obviously, that's because, you know, women weren't allowed to serve in the military, as you very well know Congressman before that. But the other announcement that we are getting out of Palm Beach tonight on this outside group that Trump is putting Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in charge of, he's calling it the Department of Government Efficiency.
I wonder how you view that because what we've heard is an aim of 1 to $2 trillion of slashing government spending. As you know, the government spent 7 trillion in last fiscal year. Over 5 trillion of that went to health care, veterans benefits, Social Security. Is that realistic in your view to cut that much of federal government spending without touching those?
LAWLER: Under the Fiscal Responsibility Act, we are saving taxpayers 2.1 trillion over the next decade without touching veterans benefits, military, homeland security, Social Security, Medicare. We did that by focusing in on 11 percent of the federal budget, and finding 2.1 trillion in savings over the next decade.
We passed that this Congress under the Fiscal Responsibility Act signed into law by Joe Biden. It was a bipartisan bill, designed to keep the government open and, funded as well as, not defaulting on our debt.
But I don't think there's any question. We have a debt crisis in this country. With $35 trillion in debt, we cannot sustain that. We cannot continue to borrow and print new money at the levels that we have. That's why we dealt with record inflation. The Biden Administration increased federal spending by $5 trillion in its first 2 years. So we have to rein in, federal spending. It requires going line by line, agency by agency, department by department. This frankly, I view as, a debt commission looking at, you know, very much like a blue ribbon panel, looking at ways to reduce government inefficiency and spending. It does not mean it's all going very much like a blue ribbon panel looking at ways to reduce, government inefficiency and spending. It does not mean it's all going to go into effect. Its recommendations.
Congress ultimately has the power of the purse. Congress will make the final decisions with respect to federal spending. But I think it is important that we actually have a serious look at our national debt. We all acknowledge it's a problem, and yet the moment you start looking at how to rein it in, people start attacking.
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But at the end of the day, the only way we're going to get control of our debt is if we do have a comprehensive look. So I think this is important.
COLLINS: Yeah. I don't think anyone's attacking it. They're just wondering how it would work. We will see. Congressman Mike Lawler, congrats on reelection. Thank you for joining us tonight.
LAWLER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, the countdown is on because tomorrow we are going to witness an extraordinary sit down between President-elect Donald Trump and President Joe Biden that is just hours away what you should be expecting when they sit down. Next.
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[21:45:00]
COLLINS: The most anticipated, and let's be honest, probably most uncomfortable Oval Office sit down between President Biden and President-elect Trump is going to happen tomorrow with just 69 days to go until Trump is inaugurated.
It's a meeting that Trump did not afford Biden 4 years ago, I should note, when he broke a historic Presidential tradition that stretches back decades. My political sources on what that meeting is going to look like tomorrow tonight are former South Carolina State Representative Bakari Sellers and Republican Strategist Brad Todd.
It's great to have you both here because, Bakari just looking at what this meeting is going to look like, to feel like, to sound like we'll have a pool spray at the beginning, which, for those who aren't on White House lingo, means reporters will get to go into the room. The cameras will be there, microphones will be there right at the beginning. What are you going to be watching for?
BAKARI SELLERS (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Just Joe Biden's body language and tone. I believe that that Joe Biden is trying to bring back, or at least go out on many of the norms that he's known the White House to have, Washington, DC to have. It's going to be a clear dichotomy on the screen. Donald Trump is someone who, doesn't believe in any norms. He doesn't believe in any structure as we know by the fact he didn't have this meeting 4 years ago. Joe Biden is trying to show that he's dignified.
But I will tell you this, you're going to have 2 men in that room, and one of them beat the other one, and the other one has this sense that he was cheated out of that race. And so it's going to be a you you're going to be able to see the egos in both of these men even through the cameras.
COLLINS: Yeah. I mean, Brad, what we've heard from Biden officials is that it's a moment for them to speak candidly about the major issues that Biden is dealing with now that Trump will be inheriting, of course, Ukraine, the war in Gaza as well. But do you expect there to be -- you know, will they gain ground -- any ground on that issue given they obviously have two very different views of it?
BRAD TODD, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, when last we left these two, Joe Biden was telling Donald Trump he had the morals of an alley cat, and they were challenging each other to a golf match in which you had to carry your own bag. So I wonder if maybe this thing should have been done at congressional country club instead of the White House, so we could finally settle that once and for all.
But, you know, I did think the war in the Middle East is the thing they hope they spend their time talking about and the hostages. Now there are 7 Americans stuck in dungeons in Gaza right now, and, I guarantee you those hostages are going to be walking and talking on American soil, or else there's going to be hell to pay, before going with Donald Trump as President.
And so but Joe Biden has been supporting the Israeli people, and I hope that they will talk about that collaboration. It's vitally important for the United States for Israel to win, and, to set back our common enemy in Iran. I hope that's a big topic tomorrow, and I hope they can talk about it like, peers.
COLLINS: Yeah. I forgot about the golf scores moment for a brief second where they were they were literally bragging about who had the better handicap on stage at that Presidential, debate.
Obviously, Bakari, that was before Vice President Harris became the top of the ticket, we saw her return to White House campus. It was the first time since the election loss last week. She was there to thank staffers for their work, as you can see here. Her advisers have been quiet about what she plans to do tomorrow. Do you think she should stop by that meeting? What should that look like?
SELLERS: You know, I'm not sure what she has planned for tomorrow. I do know that she's going to be the vice President of the United States and preside over the Senate. Hopefully, get some more judges confirmed. There's a lot to do over the next, you know, 2 months including -- you know, I think the unique thing about this conversation with Brad is we would hope that, you know, by Christmas or even Hanukkah to be more to be more on point, we can bring these hostages home, and we can make sure that those American hostages are brought home. I'm pretty sure she's dedicating most and not all of her time to those things as well.
The most amazing thing about American democracy is that, you win elections and you lose elections. But when you wake up, the sun still shines and the grass is still green. And she is someone who is the epitome of strength and she's dignified, and she's going to go and do her job. Now whether or not she, you know, runs for Governor of California or whether or not she's a professor or whether or not she runs for President again in 2028, whether or not she just chills with Dougie (ph) and, like, kicks her feet up and joins a couple of corporate boards. Who knows? I mean, she deserves the world. She lost a race. It's not the end of her world.
COLLINS: Yeah. We'll see what that looks like. Bakari Sellers, Brad Todd, great to have you both. Thank you.
SELLERS: Thank you.
TODD: Well, Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next, there is a question tonight over whether there will be another Trump in the new Trump administration, maybe even in the Senate. Elon Musk says he thinks yes. We'll tell you who ahead.
[21:50:00]
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COLLINS: Tonight, there is a not so subtle pressure campaign happening for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to name Laura Trump to fill senator Marco Rubio's senate seat.
Now Trump is not still officially named Rubio as his Secretary of State, though we reported here last night that he is likely to do so. But that has not stopped prominent Trump allies from publicly floating his daughter-in-law in the RNC Co-Chair's name.
[21:55:00]
Today, Republican senator Katie Britt told Axios she thought Lara Trump would be a tremendous pick. We heard from Florida Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, who said that she believes Lara Trump, quote, "Needs to be the nominated replacement." And just a short time ago, Elon Musk also weighed in saying that he thought she was genuinely great.
My political source joins me tonight, veteran journalist and Cofounder of Lift Our Voices -- Excuse me, sorry. Gretchen Carlson was supposed to join us. We are being joined by Senior Political Correspondent for Puck, Tara Palmeri.
And, Tara, it's great to have you here because on this push that that we're seeing for this, we are told by sources that DeSantis is aware of the pressure campaign trying to force his hand. What is your sense of how this started and whether or not we could actually see this happen?
TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Well, it's interesting, Kaitlan, because I was told from my source that DeSantis found out this morning when he woke up in Rome that Rubio was the lead contender to be secretary of state, that it was reported in The New York Times that Trump was likely to go with DeSantis and not with Rubio, and that meant that there would be an open Senate seat in his state.
And, you know, Ron DeSantis can pick whoever he wants to fill that position. And as we know, Ron DeSantis will be out of a job in 2 years when he's no longer governor. He's term limited. And a lot of people think that he could appoint himself or appoint a placeholder, someone like his chief of staff or, maybe the attorney general of the state for that role when he's ready to run for secretary or for senate, a place where he could, you know, potentially serve out the rest of his political career.
But he learned this morning that this seat would be open. And throughout the day, it was communicated to him through allies of Trump that Lara Trump is interested in the role. And as you can see, the Trump family is clearly thinking about politics as a franchise, and they are getting their players out there in all different places throughout the political sphere.
COLLINS: Yeah. And I should note Rubio has not been formally picked by Trump. And what I mean by that is, we -- I've even heard from people who -- they've got the call from Trump. But until he says it publicly, they're not confident that they've actually got the job. And he hasn't said that publicly about Rubio yet.
What are you hearing in Trump World about how this this Rubio decision is going down and how some people are not very happy about it?
PALMERI: Well, there are a lot of people in the kind of grassroots America First MAGA wing, the so called loyalist who feel like he passed over Ric Grenell who has a worldview that's much more similar to theirs, for an establishment hawk, like Marco Rubio. That's how they see him.
They believe that, Ric Grenell was there with Donald Trump after January 6th when Marco Rubio was on the Senate floor condemning him for what happened on January 6th appropriately. But they see him as someone who has not been loyal, you know, the way that Ric Grenell was with him for the past 8 years, whereas Marco Rubio ran against Donald Trump. You know, he actually branded the Never Trump movement really.
And, they just don't see how he could pass over Ric who has been fundraising. He's very close to Melania Trump with the Log Cabin Republicans. And, there's still a little bit of a war going on. You can see it even playing out online among, the grassroots, the MAGA right saying that Trump should not be passing over Ric Grenell for Marco Rubio, and that's perhaps why there's a bit of a holdup in terms of announcing it publicly because he knows there might be some backlash from the right. COLLINS: Yeah. They seem to be hoping he could change his mind on that. What are you hearing overall though? Because with Rubio, if he is the Secretary of State pick, Mike Waltz as the National Security Adviser, the Florida congressman. I mean, I've heard from some people who in that America First world who did not see that being the prevailing world view coming out of Trump's top picks. They thought it would be much more explosive in the sense of this very much America First, maybe not typical picks. I think there were a lot of fears over in traditional conservative circles about who he would actually put in these roles.
PALMERI: Exactly. I mean, he's made establishment picks for the most part. I think when you saw him pick J.D. Vance for his running mate, there was an assumption that all his cabinet picks would be like J.D., would be these hawks that are more aligned with -- not hawks, but, like, would have positions that were more aligned with the Charlie Kirks of the world, the Tucker Carlsons of the world, who really have Trump's ear and have a lot of impact on his decision making.
But in fact, Trump seems to be going towards a more moderate establishment -- and I think that shows the impact of Susie Wiles who has a long standing relationship with Marco Rubio and who actually comes from more traditional Republican circles.
COLLINS: Yeah, that's a really good point as we're seeing all this shape out and also how quickly it's happening with the Defense Secretary pick tonight. Tara Palmeri, as always, great reporting and thank you for sharing with us.
PALMERI: Thanks for having me, Kaitlin.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us on a very busy news night with a lot of headlines and cabinet announcements tonight out of Mar-a-Lago. "CNN Newsnight" with Abby Phillip is up next.
