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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Makes Picks For Treasury, Labor, HUD, OMB, FDA, CDC, Surgeon General; Sources: Trump's Intel Pick Tulsi Gabbard Was On TSA Watch List; WaPo: Trump Plans To Use DOJ To Investigate 2020 Election. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 23, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Jim, family members tell us that after seeing the state of Hannah, on that surveillance video from the train station, they are concerned for her wellbeing. They wouldn't go into any further details, because they don't want to jeopardize the investigation.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Yes.
MIRACLE: But we did reach out to the LAPD. They couldn't give us an interview. They did say they are investing in this case -- investigating rather, in this case, and also the FBI is now involved.
Jim.
SCIUTTO: Let's hope they find her.
Veronica Miracle, thanks so much.
The news continues now. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS."
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Donald Trump's latest Cabinet picks are dropping by the minute, quite literally, who he's placing in critical post, and how one of the fiercest battles that was playing out in Palm Beach just came to an end.
And after tapping RFK Jr., to the top health role in the federal government, Trump has made his picks tonight to run the FDA, CDC and to serve as the U.S. Surgeon General. We'll take a look at their resumes, in just a few moments.
Plus, why was Trump's top intelligence pick, who would oversee the entire U.S. intelligence community, if she's confirmed, once placed on a U.S. government watch list.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Late this evening, Donald Trump has almost filled out his entire cabinet, with an exception of just a handful of positions waiting to be confirmed by the President-Elect. Names have been dropping by the minute. We'll walk through what each one means, and why they were chosen by the President-Elect for round two.
But with these announcements, tonight, one of the fiercest battles that have been playing out in Palm Beach, for the last two and a half weeks, since Trump won the election, has just come to an end tonight.
The President-Elect says that he is going with hedge fund manager, Scott Bessent, as his Treasury secretary. Trump liked Bessent's Wall Street credentials, the fact that he had converted to the MAGA movement, after initially working as a George Soros protege. He advised Trump on economic policy.
And you often saw him out on the campaign trail with Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT: I have one of the most brilliant men in Wall Street, I think, here. I shook hands with him just a little while ago. Scott. Where is Scott?
He is considered one of the most brilliant men on Wall Street.
Come on up, Scott.
SCOTT BESSENT, (R) PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR TREASURY SECRETARY: Look, this is the Trump economy. This is the Trump stock market. I am convinced that President Trump is ahead in the polls now.
(CHEERING)
BESSENT: He is going to stay ahead in the polls.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
BESSENT: And that he may beat--
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
BESSENT: He may beat Kamala Harris by more than he would have beaten President Biden.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Thank you, Scott.
BESSENT: Thanks.
TRUMP: Thank you, Scott.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Thank you.
Is he central casting? He's central casting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Central casting.
Here was Bessent, just last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BESSENT: Everyone asked me, What do you tell President Trump he should do?
I don't have to tell Donald Trump he should do anything. He's done it. We had a great economy under Trump 1.0. 2016 to just till we hit the wall in COVID was one of the greatest periods in American history. I think under Donald Trump, we could have a golden age for the next four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We'll talk more about that fierce battle that played out, in a moment.
But Trump has also just confirmed, for us tonight, that the hard- charging figure, known well in conservative circles, Russ Vought, will return to the Office of Management and Budget, his second time taking that role after serving in the first Trump administration.
He had been down in Florida to meet with the President-Elect this week, I was told. And he has made clear, in this position, he'd like to overhaul the federal workforce, and what that looks like.
One notable aspect, tonight, is he was also a key author for Project 2025, a chapter. We'll read through part of that tonight. Of course, Trump often tried to distance himself from it, during the campaign. We heard that no one from Project 2025 would be brought on. We'll see why that's happening tonight.
My political sources here:
Former communications director to Vice President Harris, Jamal Simmons.
Former senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings.
CNN's Global Economic Analyst, Rana Foroohar.
And the deeply-sourced Senior Political Correspondent for Puck, Tara Palmeri.
It's great to have you all.
Let's talk about Scott Bessent, because he is someone who has been seen in Palm Beach, almost every day for the last two and a half weeks. There were moments, where he was in for Treasury secretary.
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST, GLOBAL BUSINESS COLUMNIST & ASSOCIATE EDITOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: Yes.
COLLINS: Then he was out. It was kind of this battle playing out. I mean, one of the -- one of the contenders, truly flew from Hong Kong to come and interview with Donald Trump. That is how crazy it got down there. And no one really knew what was going on.
What do you make of Bessent's credentials as Treasury secretary?
FOROOHAR: So, he's very much a Wall Street guy, right? And that's what I thought we were going to get in this position. There's been a lots that people talked about.
[21:05:00]
I think, in the Trump camp, you've got sort of two types of people. You've got the Wall Street folks, and you've got the more MAGA. I would put Bob Lighthizer kind of in the pro-tariff kind of camp. Not appointed yet. But those factions, I would say, are a little bit in collision.
Because if you think about what Scott Bessent is going to have to do, he's going to have to -- he would like to cut deficit and debt. He's going to have to deal with tariffs, and how to implement them. He's going to have to deal with tax cuts. He's going to try and keep the market up. He's got to keep the dollar strong. That's a lot. That's a lot on your plate.
And some of those things are actually not going to be easy to do together. Keeping the dollar strong? At the same time, you're trying to bolster a manufacturing sector, put tariffs on that may raise prices? Tough.
COLLINS: Yes.
FOROOHAR: Tough -- tough gig.
COLLINS: Well, and for a president, who was known for his turnover, in his first time in office, Tara?
FOROOHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, Treasury was one of the sole roles of stability.
TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK, HOST "SOMEBODY'S GOTTA WIN": Right.
COLLINS: Maybe Transportation secretary with Elaine Chao.
But this is, it matters to Trump, because he cares about the markets, and he doesn't want to disrupt the markets. But he has made some pretty broad and sweeping plans.
What do you make of how this played out, where there were times where Scott Bessent was down, times he was up, and finally getting the nod?
PALMERI: It's like anything with Trump. It was like a beauty pageant, right? The cabinet pageantry.
And at one point, he was duking it out with Howard Lutnick, who was the head of the transition, as I'm sure you've reported. And there was a feeling that, because he hadn't won the post, in that battle, and Lutnick ended up at Commerce, and Trump started inviting in new voices, new people. Kevin Warsh from the Fed Gov.
And you had Marc Rowan from Apollo, like you said, flying from Hong Kong, that he could go in any which way. But actually, for Trump, I heard that it was a chemistry issue with Marc Rowan.
But he likes the idea of these, like, big players on Wall Street coming to kiss the ring.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
PALMERI: They have a higher net worth than him. They have the ability to move markets.
FOROOHAR: That's important.
PALMERI: And he's looking at them for so many different reasons, like, for example, with Kevin Warsh, I heard, Oh, he looks good on TV. Marc Rowan's not as good at speaking on TV.
And for Trump, I think he thinks he needs to sell the policies. And selling the policy is selling the idea that what he's doing is working, and you want a really strong advocate. Although I wouldn't say Steven Mnuchin was the best on TV, for what it's worth, and he was kind of a random choice.
But Scott Bessent, not a household name. He's not Steve Schwarzman. He's not Jamie Dimon, but he's--
FOROOHAR: One thing he's got, though. He worked for Soros. And he knows a lot--
COLLINS: Who was a GOP boogeyman, obviously.
FOROOHAR: Right, but a very strategic thinker, right? And he knows a lot about complex systems. I mean, that's the--
COLLINS: We'll get to you in a moment.
FOROOHAR: That's the thing. I mean, Bessent is walking into, you know, I've been doing my job 33 years, probably the most complex economic situation in the U.S. and geopolitically that I've seen in my career. I mean, a lot of things are changing. The world economy is changing. It's going to be very tough to juggle.
COLLINS: Yes.
FOROOHAR: And you're going to need somebody that can think in a complex way.
COLLINS: That's a really good point. I mean, this role is so critical, and to the value of the U.S. dollar, what this looks like--
FOROOHAR: 100 percent.
COLLINS: --how markets rise and fall in this.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: And so, Scott, I mean, I feel like you could kind of hear a sigh of relief from Wall Street--
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Yes.
COLLINS: --when this pick did come down tonight. I met with a banker today, who was kind of talking about what this is going to look like with Trump, with the $7 trillion tax cut that he's promised, the 20 percent tariffs that he's threatened.
I mean, this is going to be -- and that's on top of the environment that you were just mentioning.
FOROOHAR: Right.
JENNINGS: Well, and obviously Trump trusts him. And I do think Bessent has the ability to translate MAGA, to Wall Street audiences and to financial audiences. And that's a good thing.
I mean, we live in a communications world. The policies are one thing. But then you have to tell people what you're doing, why you're doing it, and why it's good for the country. I mean, a lot of what happens, I think, in the financial world, is based on confidence. Do we have confidence in what the government is doing?
FOROOHAR: Sure.
JENNINGS: Do we have confidence in the President and his team?
This is obviously a confidence pick. And so, I think it'll be good.
I think in the first term, Treasury was one of his most successful cabinets, set up to be another round of that in the second go-around, which is vital for him, since he's an economic kind of guy.
COLLINS: Yes, and he's going to be walking into -- the U.S. is probably going to hit the debt ceiling by the time he takes all -- by the time they take office, if he's confirmed in this position.
A lot on his plate, Jamal. I do though want to note, I mean, he is a historic pick, if he's confirmed. I believe he would be the first openly gay Treasury secretary. I mean, I need to do a more exhaustive search. But I'm pretty sure. Ric Grenell was in the cabinet, in an acting position previously, when Trump was in office. But it is notable in this Republican administration, what that would look like.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO VP HARRIS, CO-HOST, "TRAILBLAZE" PODCAST: Sure is notable. What else is notable are two words that I would like for them to remember. I started my career in the economic agencies, in the Clinton administration. Two words, Smoot and Hawley, right? Two names, I should say, right?
So, the Smoot-Hawley tariffs of 1930 are very widely regarded as what helped propel us into the Great Depression, when President Hoover put the Smoot-Hawley tariffs on. Other countries reacted. Prices went up. The global markets constricted. It was a bad scene.
I just think they should be very careful before we start getting into tariff wars again.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
SIMMONS: In this administration.
PALMERI: Yes.
[21:10:00]
FOROOHAR: Well, one thing that's interesting about Bessent, he's already said that he views, and Trump views, tariffs as a little bit of a sort of a chit to be played in a game of geopolitics.
SIMMONS: Yes.
FOROOHAR: And I do think -- I actually don't think that Bessent is a true believer on tariffs. I think he's much more of a deregulate tax cuts, keep the market hot.
COLLINS: Yes well let's--
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: We'll see what that looks like, and does Trump actually carry through with that.
And the other name that's coming out tonight that I mentioned, Tara, that maybe he's not known to everyone, who's at home watching.
PALMERI: Yes.
COLLINS: He's definitely known to us, Trump reporters.
PALMERI: Right.
COLLINS: But Russ Vought taking over and going in as the Budget director in round two. He is someone, he's a true believer in Trump, and he has stayed close to him since Trump left office. He's distanced himself a little because of the Project 2025 stuff.
But him going back in. I mean, he has really big views of reshaping the federal workforce, and doing what we've heard a lot of them talk about, getting rid of federal bureaucrats, and those career officials that are in a lot of these agencies. PALMERI: Yes, I mean, he would be the guy to actually effectuate what Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy want to do in their whole DOGE government organization. He has the power of the purse, right? I mean, he's overseeing the budget.
And he is an ideologue. And he stayed close to Trump. He believe in him this entire time. And he's one of the architects of Project 2025. So in fact, you're giving a person a lot of power. He stayed close to Susie Wiles, critically. So he has an in, into the -- into the Oval Office. He's not just hanging out in the Executive office building. And I think Russ Vought is going to be like a very, you know, very strong presence.
COLLINS: Yes.
And well, and just for people, who don't know him, he just did an interview with Tucker Carlson, this week. Listen to what he said during that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL VOUGHT, PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET DIRECTOR: You can have a president, kind of steps in and says, You know what? There's no constitutional amendment for me to take control of the administrative state.
What you need is people who are able to absorb political heat. They don't have a fear of conflict. They can execute under withering enemy fire. They are up to speed, and they are no nonsense in their own ability to know what must be done. And they are unbelievably committed to the President and his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Able to execute, withstand, withering enemy fire.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, he is describing, really, what we have heard. That I think we hear a lot of people say, Well, Trump maybe won't be able to carry out what he's been pledging with changing it. If he can, it's because of people like Russ Vought.
FOROOHAR: Well, I was just going to say, loyalist. That's what I'm hearing, loyalist, somebody that is going to 100 percent tow the President's line.
But, again, there's -- there's a juxtaposition in this administration already between people, like Bessent, we just talked about, kind of a traditional Wall Street guy, and someone like this that is much more an ideologue, you know? And I think that those two things are going to come into conflict.
And I predict, actually, that Democrats are going to look for some of the chinks, to start driving their own ideas through, and sort of nudging things if possible. COLLINS: I mean, If anyone loves conflict, it's Donald Trump.
But they did say no one from Project 2025 is coming in. Howard Lutnick had pledged that. Obviously -- I mean, he wrote a literal chapter in Project 2025.
SIMMONS: Kaitlan, they didn't tell the truth. They didn't tell the truth.
JENNINGS: Well, hold on. Hold on. There were plenty of people, who were around that, and plenty of things in that that are basic, standard Republican stuff, like, cutting the size of the federal government, reducing the size of bureaucracy.
I mean, don't threaten me with a good time. I hope he does it, and I hope he's aggressive about it, and, I mean. And so, this was not groundbreaking, or stuff. This is what Republicans have wanted for a very long time.
And Vought is very skilled. They did a great job, the first time around. I like that he's coming back. He knows where all the levers and knobs are. And he's going to hopefully execute on this agenda that not just Donald Trump has said he wants it. Republicans have said they wanted, for decades.
COLLINS: I mean, he has really expansive views of presidential power, and that's what his whole chapter in Project 2025 is about. And I remember it, when he was in the office the first time, he was one who helped engineer, trying to use funds to pay for the wall that weren't designated for the wall. I mean, he's the one who's like thinking through, how can they do this and let them battle it out in the courts later.
SIMMONS: Immigration, tariffs, prices, right? Those were the three big drivers, I think, of the Donald Trump campaign. The question for me is, how are these people that they're hiring, going to deal with the three big issues that Americans say that they cared about?
And I think if they start wandering off into this sort of, like Project 2025 extremist kind of agenda, they're going to find themselves in a place very contrary to where the American people want to be. And we'll see how they answer for that in 2026.
FOROOHAR: Deportation--
COLLINS: Final thought?
FOROOHAR: Immigration, and deportation, that's an economic issue. That's going to be a big deal. If we start seeing mass deportations, aside from this sort of human implications, inflation will go up.
SIMMONS: Yes.
FOROOHAR: One of the reasons inflation has been lower, in the last few years, is that we have had a lot more immigration, relative to other countries. And that's one of the reason that we have-- JENNINGS: Did it go up -- did it go up--
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: It's labor price competition.
FOROOHAR: And that's--
SIMMONS: Yes.
JENNINGS: Did it go up when--
FOROOHAR: It's one of the reasons that we did better than Europe.
[21:15:00]
JENNINGS: Did it go up when Obama deported 5 million people? I think concerns about this are overblown. We've got 1.6 million people with deportation orders, right now, and another violent population. I mean, I don't think that alone is going to drive up the cost of groceries in the short-term. And people want it to happen.
COLLINS: You don't think mass deportations will affect the labor force--
JENNINGS: I think--
COLLINS: --or agriculture industry?
SIMMONS: Or building houses.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I think the--
SIMMONS: To bring down the cost of groceries.
(CROSSTALK)
FOROOHAR: --factories.
COLLINS: Even if you're pro-edge (ph) you have to consider that. I mean.
JENNINGS: I think -- I think if you get -- if you exit people that have already have deportation orders from the court, and you exit people who are violent criminals, that is in no way, shape or form going to hurt the economy. But it just might make people feel a little safer--
COLLINS: Yes, but they're talking about--
JENNINGS: --about their communities.
COLLINS: --way more than that, though, I think is part of this. Anyway, we're going to-- JENNINGS: Yes, where do you think--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: We're going to dig into all of it. Don't worry. As Scott said, this is his idea of a good time, everyone. So, Friday night, buckle up.
Much more coming up, on Trump's new picks for the CDC, the FDA, Surgeon General, the faces that you saw everywhere during the pandemic. Plus, I have new reporting on who played a major role in shaping those picks.
Also tonight, we're following a story here tonight at CNN. Trump's Director of National Intelligence selection was once on a government watch list. We'll talk to someone about why.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, CNN can report that Trump's pick to be one of the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government, Tulsi Gabbard, was placed on a watch list for overseas travel and foreign connections.
Three sources tell us that Gabbard was briefly placed on this TSA list that prompts additional security screenings before you get on your plane. And it came after her overseas travel patterns. And those connections triggered a government algorithm, which flagged her on this little-known program that is called Quiet Skies.
She was removed quickly from the list after she went public with claims, like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TULSI GABBARD, PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The Harris-Biden administration have added me to a secret domestic terror watch list.
She has labeled me a domestic terrorist, put me on a secret domestic terror watch list.
I was added to a secret domestic terror watch list called Quiet Skies.
My government has put me on a terror watch list.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, we did some digging into this. The TSA says it is not a terror watch list, as she says there.
But for anyone who is named to a top position in the federal government, much less the Director of the National Intelligence, who oversees 18 intelligence agencies, this is highly unusual, if not unprecedented, according to several U.S. officials.
My sources tonight are:
Former Trump National Security Adviser, Ambassador John Bolton.
And the former TSA administrator, and former FBI Deputy Director, John Pistole himself.
John Pistole, let me start with you. Because you heard Tulsi Gabbard there, describing this as a terror watch list. Can you just walk us through, given you ran TSA, what Quiet Skies is, and why she would have maybe ended up on it?
JOHN PISTOLE, FORMER TSA ADMINISTRATOR, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Right. Well, first, it's not the terrorist watch list, as many people think of, and is what's known in the government for those with -- there's some indicia of reason to be on the terrorist watch list.
Quiet Skies is something that came out of, some of your viewers will remember, the Christmas Day bomber from 2009, referred to as the Underwear Bomber, a 24-year-old Nigerian, who was given a non-metallic improvised explosive device, and got on a plane at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, to fly to Detroit with instructions to blow it up over U.S. airspace. And he tried to do that, and of course, didn't work.
And so, as a result of that, there was -- it was determined that there are some type of gap in the U.S. intelligence tracking of potential, in this case, an actual terrorist. And so, Quiet Skies was developed as part of the U.S. intelligence community, with TSA being the operational part of that. And so that's what Quiet Skies is.
It's really a pointer system, is the way I think of it, to say, OK, somebody's traveled to a place that's maybe not a close ally, let's say, hypothetically, Syria, Iran, North Korea. And so, let's look into that further and see what is the reason for that travel, and is there some follow-up that we should do, to make sure that a person like the Christmas Day bomber isn't getting on a flight, perhaps coming to the U.S., innocently, and then getting on a domestic flight--
COLLINS: Yes.
PISTOLE: --with some type of bomb or something like this. That's the background for it..
COLLINS: Well, and obviously Syria would match up. That is where she's traveled. There were questions about that. It was done outside of typical State Department channels.
And so, if someone is in, you know, has been flagged on this list? She was quickly removed from it, based on our reporting. If you have been nominated to a top position, in intelligence, much less the Director of National Intelligence, how unusual is that that you would have previously been on a watch list like this one?
PISTOLE: Well, highly unusual, I think, is the obvious answer. And I believe it's unprecedented. I don't know that for certain. But highly unusual.
And so, I think there's always the why. So why are you doing this travel? And then what's the reason behind the why?
So, if it's something that is simply to go visit family, friends, whatever, that may be, OK, that's one reason.
[21:25:00]
If it's to have conversations with the head of state of a hostile country, then that's another issue. And I think that should be fully vetted for any nominee, especially to the Director of National Intelligence, as you pointed out, overseeing 18 agencies in the U.S. intelligence community, including over the Pentagon, intelligence components, and of course, FBI, CIA, DHS, everybody.
COLLINS: Yes.
PISTOLE: So, yes, it's important to find that out.
COLLINS: Yes, it's basically all of them.
John Pistole, thank you for clearing that up for us, and for helping, I really appreciate that.
Ambassador Bolton, I've also got you here.
And you previously described Tulsi Gabbard as the worst cabinet-level appointment in history. What do you make, just to give everyone the context of your thoughts going into this, what do you make of this reporting that she was on that TSA list, even if it was briefly?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, I think she hyperventilated about it, as your clip showed, to try and indicate she was being persecuted for criticizing the Biden-Harris administration. That's obviously incorrect. But it's part of her kind of performance art way of doing her job.
Look, this underlines the absolute necessity for her, and for all the top-level positions that require Senate confirmation, to have a full- field FBI background investigation.
We don't know exactly what Trump is going to do. He's given indications he's not going to submit the nominees to this FBI background check. And that's fine. He doesn't have to.
I don't think there's any statutory requirement. But neither is there a requirement that the Senate confirm people, who haven't gotten an FBI background check. This is not discriminatory against Tulsi Gabbard. Everybody ought to have one, particularly the Director of National Intelligence.
COLLINS: Do you think Republican senators should feel comfortable voting on someone, if they haven't had an FBI background check? BOLTON: No, I think -- I think it's an absolute prerequisite. And for those Republicans who might say, But Trump deserves his nominee? There will be a Democratic president again someday, and God knows who they will nominate.
The FBI check is not a partisan device. It's for the protection of the people of the United States, to get whatever assurance they can, that people in very sensitive positions have not been disloyal or disloyal to the country, are so imprudent in their behavior that you don't want to trust them, in this case, with oversight over the--
COLLINS: Yes.
BOLTON: --over the nation's secrets.
COLLINS: Can I get your take. As we were just talking about all the announcements that came out tonight, from Donald Trump. It was a flood of them for a lot of Cabinet picks.
One of them is a name that I believe you'll be familiar with. Sebastian Gorka. He was previously working in the White House before with NSC. He's someone who worked with Steve Bannon. He was forced out when when General Kelly came in as the Chief of Staff.
He has been named as a Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Counterterrorism. What's your thought on that selection tonight?
BOLTON: Well, Sebastian Gorka is a con man. I wouldn't have him in any U.S. government. Fortunately, it's not the highest position he had been mentioned for. But I don't think it's going to bode well for counterterrorism efforts, when the NSC Senior Director is somebody like that.
And this is why, obviously, everybody is now focusing on the top jobs. But the questions of who are the deputy secretaries, who are the undersecretaries, and so on, is also going to tell us a lot about who is actually running the government.
COLLINS: What -- you called him a con man. What's your -- tell us why.
BOLTON: Well, I tell you, he needs a full-field FBI background investigation about his educational claims and things like that.
I don't -- I think -- I think he is a perfect example of somebody who owes his position purely to Donald Trump. He doesn't display loyalty. He displays fealty. And that's what Trump wants. He doesn't want Gorka's opinions. He wants Gorka to say, Yes sir. And I am fully confident that's exactly what will happen, no matter what it is Trump says.
COLLINS: I'm sure he will have a lot of thoughts on those comments from you.
But on those top positions that you just mentioned. We saw the first cabinet pick for Trump withdraw yesterday, Matt Gaetz, said his nomination was becoming a distraction.
You tweeted after that quote, "One down, more to follow."
Do you think that there are other names that are going to withdraw that have been -- that have been chosen by Donald Trump? And why?
BOLTON: Or that will be defeated on the floor of the Senate. There are a lot of competitors to see who's as bad as Gaetz, who actually turned out to be the worst cabinet nominee in history. Tulsi Gabbard's now number two. But I put -- I put the two of them in a class by themselves. There are others, Pete Hegseth for defense, who have come under fire.
[21:30:00]
Tulsi Gabbard's threat to our national security really is a completely different level. And I think now that Gaetz has taken himself out of the race for A.G., I think enormous amounts of attention have to be directed at Gabbard.
COLLINS: Would you vote for any of these Cabinet nominees so far?
BOLTON: Well, I don't -- I don't know a lot of them. I do think the President's entitled to deference.
And I think disagreeing with their policy opinions is really not the function of the Senate. It's to look at competence, fitness, moral character, to handle the job. And that is appropriate for the Senate.
It's not -- this is not -- shouldn't be an effort to stop Donald Trump to do what he did get a majority to do. For example, he said he wanted to abolish the Department of Education. People are pulling their hair out about that. Ronald Reagan said he wanted to abolish the Department of Education. I would certainly support it. I don't think it's a proper function for the federal government.
That's different from the Trump retribution campaign against his adversaries that it looks like we'll see play out at the Department of Justice, and other departments, that could be a role -- have a role in that as well.
COLLINS: Yes, we're going to talk about that, coming up.
Ambassador Bolton, as always, thank you for your perspective.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COLLINS: And tonight, as we noted, the President-Elect has announced new picks to lead the CDC, the FTA, and also a new Surgeon General. Who are those picks, and what are their credentials? We'll talk about that, right after a quick break.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Some more breaking news, this hour, as Donald Trump is rolling out more of his picks to run public health, when he reclaims power in January.
He has just named Dr. Marty Makary as his pick to lead the FDA. He's a Johns Hopkins surgeon who has been critical in the past of Dr. Fauci, and the Biden administration's COVID response.
Dr. Dave Weldon for CDC director. He's a medical director -- doctor, a veteran and a former House member, a Republican in Congress.
Also Dr. Janette Nesheiwat, who is a practicing physician. She has treated COVID patients during the pandemic. She is a Fox News contributor. She is going to be the Surgeon General.
I have new reporting on how these names came together tonight. One person tells me that Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, of course, is Trump's pick to oversee all of those roles, if confirmed, was instrumental in selecting the FDA and CDC picks.
My source tonight is CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner.
And Doctor, it's great to have you here.
Because obviously people may not be familiar with some of these names. But as we saw, during COVID-19, and just in any administration, they play really critical roles.
And so, I want to talk -- let's talk about the Surgeon General pick first. This is Dr. Janette Nesheiwat. She's a Medical Director at CityMD. She's a Fox News contributor. She's been talking on TV.
Just an example of some sound that she said before. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS MEDIA: So what happens if he's indicted, at some point?
DR. JANETTE NESHEIWAT, PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR SURGEON GENERAL: He can be president from jail, if he has to.
I can tell you, having taken care of thousands of COVID patients on the frontlines, in New York City, I remember the Trump administration sent us PPEs, gloves, ventilators, masks, everything that we needed. They sent, you know, the medical teams, the National Guard, the USS Comfort. I had everything that I needed.
We're scrambling, we're scrounging because of the lack of planning and preparation by the current administration. We have a lack of testing. We have a lack of antiviral pills by Merck and Pfizer. And we have a shortage of monoclonal antibodies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Dr. Reiner, what do you make of his pick for Surgeon General? DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Well, it follows a pattern of the President-Elect picking people who either flattered him or supported him, either now or in the prior administration.
The primary role of the Surgeon General -- well, there are really two roles. One is to be sort of the leader of the 6,000-person Uniform Public Health Corps. But the more important role for the Surgeon General really is to be America's doctor, really a non-partisan doctor, and help Americans understand how to promote healthy behaviors and reduce -- and reduce illness.
I think Dr. Nesheiwat is a pretty effective communicator. She wasn't, during the pandemic, really, outside the mainstream bounds of science. But she was a very, sort of vocal promoter of the administration's policies. So, I think that was an -- that was an easy -- easy choice for him, and maybe even the least controversial of the picks.
COLLINS: OK. So then, for FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty Makary, he's a Johns Hopkins surgeon, as I noted. What stands out to you about his resume?
REINER: First of all, he's a very accomplished pancreatic surgeon at Johns Hopkins. Earlier in his career, he had a lot of very useful things to say about patient safety, particularly in the OR.
[21:40:00]
During the pandemic, he was a very loud proponent of natural immunity, meaning immunity garnered from an infection. He famously incorrectly predicted that the U.S. would reach herd immunity. That's the point at which, either from vaccine-induced immunity or natural immunity from infections, that the U.S. would reach that by April 1st, 2021.
That was far from the case. In fact, in September of 2021, the U.S. was seeing 15,000 deaths per week.
He's not a vaccine opponent. He was an opponent of vaccine mandates. He incorrectly stated that things like myocarditis were more commonly found in people who were vaccinated--
COLLINS: Yes.
REINER: --than in people who were infected. That was -- that was shown to be untrue.
And he's also shown that he's a very vocal proponent ally of RFK Jr.
COLLINS: Yes, yes, he's a close -- he's a--
REINER: So, I'm guessing that RFK had a -- yes.
COLLINS: He's a close ally of RFK Jr.'s. Obviously, RFK was, I was told, playing a big role, in who was getting these jobs. He has a lot of influence, certainly--
REINER: Right.
COLLINS: --in Trump's orbit, right now.
Last but not least, Dr. Dave Weldon has been the pick. He's a veteran doctor, former Florida congressman. He's been chosen to lead the CDC.
The Washington Post reports that that while he was in Congress, he supported the idea that a vaccine preservative had caused a spike in autism cases around the world. Obviously, that was later debunked by scientists. But I note that because that is similar to what we've heard from RFK himself.
REINER: That's right. And also, when he was in Congress, he proposed -- he proposed a bill which never made it out of committee, that would have stripped some of vaccine safety oversight out of the CDC, and put it in an independent part of HHS.
I think he's the least qualified of these three nominees. While he -- while he is a doctor, he really has no expertise, first of all, in managing a large organization, like CDC, with its 12,000 employees.
I think that people most-suited to run that agency are either infectious disease docs or epidemiology physicians. This organization is really tasked with helping to prevent disease in the United States, and in recent years, with obviously a heavy focus on infectious disease.
He has no experience in that. He's an internist. It's a massive organization. And I think he's just not qualified for the job.
COLLINS: We'll see, of course, what Capitol Hill thinks.
Dr. Reiner, as always, thank you for jumping on with us, on this breaking news tonight.
REINER: My pleasure.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to talk about the Justice Department, because Trump is planning, apparently, to avenge his 2020 loss with his second term at the DOJ. We'll tell you how, next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Donald Trump may be basking in his 2024 win. But he is apparently making plans to try to avenge his 2020 loss, when he returns to power.
The Washington Post reports tonight that he plans to assemble investigative teams within the Justice Department, to quote, "Hunt for evidence in battleground states that fraud tainted the 2020 election," despite how fraud did not taint the 2020 election.
The Post also reports tonight that Trump plans to fire the Special Counsel Jack Smith's entire team, including career attorneys at the Justice Department, citing two people close to the transition.
My legal sources are here with me tonight at the table.
Former federal prosecutor and state prosecutor, Elie Honig.
And former New York State Supreme Court Justice, Jill Konviser.
Elie, I mean, we know that this was coming. Obviously, Jack Smith is planning to wind all this down. They're aware of this.
But on the 2020 part, that's what stood out to me, that he is going to task people with hunting for something that he made the last Justice Department he was in charge of to hunt for, that never turned up.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes, spoiler alert, he's not going to find anything. And we know that because there was 60 lawsuits, alleging voter fraud, none of which even got out of the gate.
And, as you point out, Kaitlan, they did look for fraud in 2020. Bill Barr created, essentially a task force, before and after the election, where he was looking for election fraud. And the reason Bill Barr had his falling out with Donald Trump is because Bill Barr came back to him and said, We didn't find anything, Boss, sorry about that.
So, they can look again. They can keep looking. But it's just not there.
But I do have to say, this is the power that comes with the Justice Department. There's nothing illegal about them starting these investigations. I think they're a waste of time. I think they're ridiculous. But it's within the power of the A.G.
COLLINS: Well--
JILL KONVISER, RETIRED JUDGE, HAS KNOWN JUDGE MERCHAN FOR MORE THAN 15 YEARS: And you left out that almost a billion dollars has been paid out by Fox and Newsmax--
HONIG: Right.
KONVISER: --for the things that they've said about--
HONIG: Yes.
KONVISER: --voting irregularities.
COLLINS: Yes, well--
KONVISER: So, I think you're right.
COLLINS: And great thing to -- and Bill Barr compared it to Whac-a- Mole, when they had to have someone look up the claim that there was a 18-wheeler driver who was carrying ballots. That was just not true.
But Judge, when you look at this, I mean, Trump will have the power to do this. And he's putting Pam Bondi in as his attorney general, if she gets confirmed. He announced that last night. She is someone who herself filed a lot of election-related lawsuits.
KONVISER: She did. And she did say, even she's been quoted in the papers, requoted in the papers, today, about there's election interference. We're not seeing -- we're not going home until we win Pennsylvania in 2020, and we have evidence.
The truth is, if she had evidence about it, I think we'd know about it. I don't think she'd keep it close to the vest and to say, Oh, well, if he wins again in 2024, we'll bring it up then. I think it's -- I think she doesn't have it. I don't think it exists.
HONIG: She's going to be asked about that, of course, at her confirmation hearings. And I'm interested to see how she handles it, right? There's really only a couple things.
She can say, I stand by those claims, which is outrageous.
She can say, You know what? I was wrong, wish I hadn't done them.
I don't think that's going to happen.
I think she's going to dodge and just say, It's over. We litigated. I don't want to go back into it.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Well, and this is all happening -- also, he wants to fire the career officials, who typically would go back to their normal jobs.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: But all this is happening as we got a development here in New York with Trump's hush money case. Judge Merchan officially delaying, postponing indefinitely his sentencing. The Trump team is phrasing this, framing this as a win.
I wonder, how do you see. I mean, what does happen here next with this?
KONVISER: Well, I don't know what's going to happen. This is as unprecedented a case as we've ever seen. We've had this conversation.
What I think will happen, and what I think what is happening is that Judge Merchan, characteristically, is scrupulously following every single rule and making sure both sides get a chance to be heard.
They keep on saying we want to file another motion. Delay is always the dish of the day for defense lawyers, not just -- not just Trump's lawyers. But what's going to happen is with Judge Merchan reasonably giving them all the time in the world, they're trying to run down the clock.
Let's remember that Donald Trump is a convicted felon. He is the President-Elect. He is not the President. So, there is a window here, where he can be sentenced.
I -- what I would do? I don't know what Judge Merchan would do. I would decide the immunity motion, and I would deny it. I would decide the Clayton motion, I would deny it, and then I would sentence the defendant.
HONIG: He's got to do that in 35 days.
KONVISER: Yes.
HONIG: I don't know what the D.A.'s ultimate end game is here. I don't think he gets sentenced before he takes office.
The craziest moment of the week was when the D.A. floated, in writing, We may want to sentence this guy in 2029. That is crazy--
KONVISER: Shameful.
HONIG: Shameful, yes. It would take--
COLLINS: What was the title of your piece today?
HONIG: Something like, Somebody's got to tell the D.A. the case is over.
COLLINS: I read that piece, and I was like, Wow, this is a really good piece. We should have someone on to talk about it. And I went to look at it again to see who wrote it. And it was--
HONIG: Whoever could it be.
COLLINS: --Elie Honig, of course.
HONIG: I'm here for you.
COLLINS: Everything.
Elie Honig. Judge Jill. Great to have you both.
HONIG: Thanks.
COLLINS: It is finally Friday, bringing us to a very different question here at the end, and a term that I just heard today. Will "Glicked" be the new "Barbenheimer"? That battle is on. And guess what? Harry Enten is here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEDRO PASCAL, ACTOR, "GLADIATOR II": (As General Acacius) I claim this city for the glory of Rome.
ARIANA GRANDE, ACTRESS, "WICKED": (As Galinda Upland) You're green.
CYNTHIA ERIVO, ACTRESS, "WICKED": (As Elphaba Thropp) I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP) [21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, a battle is brewing between ancient Roman warriors and two witches from the Faraway Land of Oz. And it might just be the biggest box office battle since last year's "Barbenheimer" sensation.
I would like to introduce you to, drum roll, please.
(DRUM ROLL SOUND EFFECT)
COLLINS: "Glicked." You heard that right. It is a mash up of the "Gladiator" sequel, starring Denzel Washington, Paul Mescal, Pedro Pascal, and "Wicked," the musical origin story of the Wicked Witch of the West that features Cynthia Erivo, and Ariana Grande, both are making their debut on the big screen this weekend, as is CNN's data guru and resident film fanatic, Harry Enten, right now.
OK. Can you explain "Glicked" to everyone, who just -- I learned what this was about six hours ago.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL DATA REPORTER: You learned about it -- about it, six hours ago. I learned it -- about it, I don't know, about four hours ago, as I look on my imaginary--
COLLINS: OK. So, maybe I should be asking myself questions, again?
ENTEN: Yes, you can ask yourself questions. But it's just one of these very interesting things, right?
If we look at "Glicked," the idea of the box office, right, can these two powerhouse films, "Gladiator II" and "Wicked" come together, and sort of produce a new Barbieheimer, right?
We remember that, obviously "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer." I only went to see "Oppenheimer." I did not go to see "Barbie." Although interesting luck -- my mother saw "Barbie" with Sara Sidner, of all people. And I think the real question is, can it repeat itself, right?
And look, I think Barbieheimer set -- sort of set the standard. I don't think this is going to reach that, because Barbieheimer was well north of $200 million its opening weekend.
This, we're looking at high a $100 million. The estimate right now forecast is $180 million. But what I should note in the domestic box office, that would still create a top five weekend for this particular year. So look, it's going to be massively successful. But I'm not quite sure it's going to reach all the way up into the Barbieheimer atmosphere.
But the other thing I should note, you were reading about the stars in those two films. And I believe in one of those films, I believe it's "Wicked" that Peter Dinklage is in. And I will note that Peter Dinklage's mother, Diane, is a lovely woman, and a big fan of mine, and a big fan of CNN's as well. COLLINS: OK.
ENTEN: So hello, Diane.
COLLINS: Like, that was such a humble brag, in like such a roundabout way. But we'll accept it.
ENTEN: Roundabout way.
COLLINS: Because I'm a big "Game of Thrones" girl.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: I mean, which one are you going to go see if either?
ENTEN: The answer to that question is, whatever my girlfriend says, that is what I'm going to go see. Because I can't honestly remember the last time I've really been to a movie, right? And I think, this is--
COLLINS: You're wearing pink.
ENTEN: I am wearing pink. I am wearing pink.
COLLINS: This feels very "Wicked."
ENTEN: Maybe it's Wicked-y.
COLLINS: Glinda.
ENTEN: Maybe the bottom line is, I never went and saw "Wicked" on Broadway, despite the fact that I used to do the weather for Playbill.com. So why would I go see "Wicked" in the theater? But again--
COLLINS: Why does Playbill.com have a weather person?
ENTEN: Because Philip Bush (ph), who runs Playbill, loves me. His son went to school with me. And so, even though I don't go to Playbill -- or I don't go to -- don't go to Broadway, I love a good Playbill.
But let me just inform your audience on one little, last little nugget here, which is that the movie--
COLLINS: They're in for a treat, right now.
ENTEN: They're in for a treat, right now. The movie theater industry has been struggling, right? I mean, if you look at the percentage that the box office, domestic box office now, and compare it to 2019, it's just way down.
COLLINS: Yes.
ENTEN: So, I think anything that can help a movie weekend, like this weekend, I think could help.
But let me ask you this question. What are you going to go and see, Kaitlan Collins? Because this weekend, I've heard you're free.
COLLINS: I am free. But, on Saturdays, I exclusively watch college football.
ENTEN: Of course.
COLLINS: Bama's playing Oklahoma, tomorrow night. But I actually--
ENTEN: I'm going to see Columbia Lions. You can come with me.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Oh. I actually do want to see "Wicked." I haven't been -- you know, no one has turned me on to "Gladiator" yet. But I do actually want to see "Wicked," because it looks really great.
ENTEN: Fantastic. Well, I hope you go see "Wicked," and maybe we'll see it together.
COLLINS: We will review them, maybe next week.
ENTEN: There we go. We'll see it. Harry and Kaitlan's Movie Reviews. Two thumbs-up.
COLLINS: I mean, that was so many names that you just dropped there, I don't even know where to start. Wizard of Odds, Harry, thank you for that.
Thank you all for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
