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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

L.A. Wildfires Rage For Third Day, Still Mostly Uncontained; CA Governor Deploys 900 More Firefighters To Battle New Fire; Supreme Court: Trump Can Be Sentenced In Hush Money Case Tomorrow. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 09, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Well there's a list of organizations that are doing work, on the ground here. That's CNN.com/impact.

I want to show you just a live picture, also, of the Kenneth fire, again, which we are following closely. As I said, it's gone from 50 acres, it's now at a 1,000 acres. So that's an update that I just got. It had been 800, the last I heard. It's now up to a 1,000 acres.

And that is something they are going to be working on, probably all night long. They are able to fly and drop water even at night. But it is -- it is very difficult, and it's very specialized, as I said before.

That's it for us. I'll be back at 10 o'clock, Eastern Time, with more.

I want to toss it over Kaitlan Collins, and "THE SOURCE."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. There are some fast-moving developments, this hour, as we come on the air. 9 o'clock here in Washington.

06:00 p.m. in Los Angeles. That is where the situation is still devastating, dire, even as a new fire has broken out late today. And those ferocious winds that have been hampering the rescue efforts, and the efforts by these firefighters to try to put out the fires you're looking at, they are picking up again tonight.

That new fire, which officials are calling the Kenneth fire this evening, it's near the border of the L.A. and Ventura Counties. It grew quickly in just a few hours. And the Governor just announced, moments ago, that they are deploying 900 more firefighters to go and address that fire.

Now, this is coming as you are looking at live pictures, right now, of that fire, this evening. That is what 900 firefighters are going to address. Just this evening, Governor Gavin Newsom announcing that a few moments ago.

Now, put that on top of this, the two largest fires, the Eaton and Palisades fires, they're still 0 percent contained right now.

Look at this mind-boggling destruction. I mean, it is entire neighborhoods that have been decimated, as far as you can see. And when you look at this, of course, each of those is someone's home, and each of those had people inside of them.

Right now, we are still waiting to hear more from officials. But what we know now is that true death toll in L.A. tonight, it is still unknown, as crews are digging through the ashes of what has been left of everything that people had.

CNN's Erin Burnett is live in Pacific Palisades for us tonight.

And Erin, obviously, you got on the ground today. You've been looking at that and talking to these officials on the ground, just trying to understand the scope of this. Even as they are still battling the fires that existed, and new ones that are popping up this evening, what have you been seeing on the ground?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Kaitlan, you talk about that new fire, and you talk it's mind-boggling. It is.

There were people grabbing their suitcases. I don't know if you can hear it, but phones going off here, evacuation orders coming in, those alerts. And that -- with that fire, grabbing their suitcases, more than many people here in Pacific Palisades were able to do, but immediately rushing to try to evacuate.

So there's that new fire. You talked about, those winds. They are anticipated to pick up over these next few hours, causing more red- flag warnings. Fire officials, telling me, their biggest fear is, is fire spreading, fires growing, of course. You say they're 0 percent contained. But also reigniting.

And here, in Pacific Palisades, I mean, we're just in the middle of a completely residential street. It is pitch-black, up here tonight, just ash, coming down everywhere, the smell. There are still small fires in so many of these houses.

The house where I am now, Kaitlan, you can see, really there's only a chimney. And that is true for so many of these houses, just a chimney left. Residents are not allowed yet to come back.

Lonnie Wittenberg, this is her home. She raised four children here. We were able to track her down and show her, her home. And she just was -- you know, you talk about utter devastation. But, for her, looking at this wreckage, everything was a room. She could see the remnants of chairs. Her daughter, who was here, was able to grab nothing. So, no family photos, nothing, no diplomas. She brought that up. She doesn't even have her children's diploma.

So, the sense of incredible loss is so palpable. Just these streets, so much like a warzone. Cars burnt out everywhere. The entire downtown, lost. You will see a Chase Bank machine, or a Bank of America, the bank machine is there, still tarnished and burned as if from war and complete devastation. The elementary school burned down.

I talked to a man, who lived right over the hill, watched his condo, Kaitlan, burn down on live television. Watching live TV, like so many people were, and then said, Oh my god, that is my home. The home where he and his wife raised their two daughters. Their school here, Pacific Palisades, like so much, is now completely burnt down.

Here's what he told me, just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF DIXON, HOME DESTROYED BY L.A. FIRES: Basically, their history burned up last night. We watched Pali Elementary, which is where both of them went to school, we watched that burn live on TV. Pali High, where they both went, they -- we watched that. Theater Palisades, where they both did their plays, and I built sets at, you know. Basically their entire history, we watched burn, live on TV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:05:00]

BURNETT: It's shock. It's trauma. It's loss. And those fires now reigniting worries about more spread, and that Kenneth fire spreading tonight.

Nick Watt is also here tonight in this.

Nick, unbelievably bizarre darkness, as ash is raining down around us.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Yes, Erin, I would say that today, I think reality began to set in for people after the initial shock. You and I both saw people coming back to their homes. I met a couple of people, who'd walked from Santa Monica into the evacuation zone, that's a few miles, to see if their houses were still standing. For the vast majority of people, they are not going to get good news.

But with that realization of the reality is also coming a bit of anger. We were down in Palisades Village, earlier this morning. And all of a sudden, Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California, jumped out of an SUV and was walking around. And very quickly, he was confronted by a local woman, who said, Why was there no water in the pumps? Why were there no -- why was there no water to put this fire out in the Palisades--

BURNETT: Yes.

WATT: --when it was at its height?

And he didn't really have an answer.

I also spoke to a guy, who said, I just built my house here two or three years ago. Who's going to -- who's going to take the blame for this?

People are really beginning to wonder, why was this allowed to happen? Was enough done to stop this happening in the first place?

BURNETT: Yes.

WATT: And Erin, the other thing, you mentioned that ash and everything. I mean, the stuff we're breathing in, the stuff these firefighters are breathing in, it's kind of gross. But when I go home every night, the grime that I pull out of my ear, I mean, that must be going into people's lungs. It's just terrible.

And people trying to see their homes, I mentioned this to you before, kids are now charging people a few bucks to come into the Palisades, on their bikes, to look at people's houses, and let them know if the house is still there or is not. And those kids are giving the money to charity. They're not putting it in their pockets.

But it's just terrible. I've been on FaceTime with people overseas, who are still on vacation, because Pali High is still out for the winter break. So, there are people in Thailand, Australia, who have no idea what's happened to their homes. So, I've been FaceTiming with a couple of people, and showing them that there's nothing left of their home.

Erin.

BURNETT: Yes, it is. It is unbelievable.

And the smell, so accurate. And you realize you are breathing in plastic--

WATT: Yes.

BURNETT: --and metal, and chemicals, and all of the other things in the air. For people, millions of people here, in this air, this surreal, just complete annihilation that we are all now witnessing. As there is that other fire raging, as we are watching these winds pick up tonight.

Kaitlan, back to you.

COLLINS: Yes, it just speaks to so much is going on right now, and still so much ahead of them.

Erin Burnett. Nick Watt. Thank you both for those reports on the ground. We'll check back in with you.

There are a lot of moving parts happening, this evening. Officials in L.A., battling one fire after another.

Just to demonstrate that. We were supposed to speak to the Chief of the Los Angeles Fire Department, tonight. She was going to join us for an interview. She was pulled away, understandably, completely understandably, because a new fire in the city broke out, this evening. And it's just another reminder of how fluid this situation is that officials are confronting.

Thankfully, Captain Erik Scott is back with me. He is the Public Information Officer for the Los Angeles Fire Department.

And it's great to have you back here.

Just 24 hours ago, looking at what has changed, there's now a new fire in the West Hills, Woodland Hills area. What can you tell us? I mean, we're looking at it, right now. We can see how bad it is. But what can you tell us, from your vantage point?

CAPT. ERIK SCOTT, FIRE CAPTAIN II & PARAMEDIC, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, LOS ANGELES CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT: I think you bring up a great point, Kaitlan, that contextualize things. We were talking 24 hours ago. And since then, whole new fires have been breaking out. So, it just shows how dynamic this is.

We're certainly not out of the woods yet. We're so thankful to get a little reprieve from those incredibly strong winds, Tuesday, Wednesday. So going into day three, we got a little break. Aircraft is back up. That's a huge help.

But as you could see, these fires that start, when the spark hits the dry brush, because the wind made it so dry and so susceptible, and it's enough to push it into hundreds of acres in a matter of minutes. So, it started in just the very west end of the San Fernando Valley, and then it started to burn southward, and it went from 50 to 500 acres, probably within an hour.

COLLINS: How worried are you about this new fire, as you're looking at it right now?

SCOTT: I'm not that worried. It's unique that that's an area, we call an MTZ, a Mutual Threat Zone. Why is that unique? Because the Los Angeles City, big department, Los Angeles County and Ventura County, all big departments, are really near there.

[21:10:00]

So arguably, we have the largest fleet of aerial resources on an initial dispatch anywhere in the nation. So, we definitely hit these hard, we hit them fast. But we're thin-staffed. We're battling so many fires.

But we've laid this fire down very well. We've stopped most forward progress. That's not to say another erratic wind gust won't change that, and we won't have some other significant problems. We can't say this enough, but wind is key. So, if those winds kick up, it's going to be a challenge.

We got a few more days, where we're going to have a little less wind. But we're going to get sun that's going to preheat the fuels, which is another challenge. We have no rain in sight. We've seen maybe a half of the amount that we would--

COLLINS: Yes. SCOTT: --normally, at this time.

COLLINS: I mean, those aerial firefighters are doing the Lord's work. It is incredibly impressive to watch them, and to see how quickly they are working. And we know they're glad to be back up in the air as well.

Given how quickly this is changing. And 24 hours ago, this fire did not exist. And now, it does now. Are there any other areas that you're watching that you're worried a fire could explode either tonight? What do you have your eye on, this evening?

SCOTT: No bets are off. Los Angeles is unique. You got 470 square miles, maybe 20 percent of that is brushed. So, any of those areas that are backed up to brush are potential targets. We're not saying that to worry people unnecessarily.

But I think with everyone seeing the amount of apocalyptic devastation that has transpired, I sure hope people, if anything, you remember this. And it's that if a wildfire is near your home, leave, and leave early. It is a challenge, when we are trying to come up these narrow canyon roads, hairpin turns turn to choke points, and it's challenging to get us up there.

So, we put out Wireless Emergency Alerts immediately on these. We had mandatory evacuation orders. We told people where the fire was going, because we get all this data and historical data, and we put it in supercomputers, and we actually project it, and find target hazards and tell them, Hey, now you're on warning. We sure hope people heed those warnings.

COLLINS: Well, and speaking of those warnings, we talked about how important they are, that people are heeding them. We talked about that last night. You just reiterated that.

An emergency alert did go out earlier today across Los Angeles, inadvertently. It was a -- it was an error. It was telling people to evacuate. And I know it was quickly corrected. But do you have concerns that a mistake like that, a misstep like that, means people may not take real evacuation orders seriously?

SCOTT: I am aware of that. The County of Los Angeles -- I'm the City -- so it's a separate entity, put out an alert, and they retracted that.

We're also well-aware that people that get notification fatigue. When your alerts go off all the time, people sometimes are just trying to quiet their phone before they even see what they're quieting. So, the signal to noise ratio is a real thing. We try to send signal, and reduce noise.

I don't have an answer to what that problem was, because that's not my jurisdiction. It would be unfair for me to comment. But we are aware of it. And by all means, people need to pay very close attention to those WEA alerts.

COLLINS: Yes.

SCOTT: That's a great way to get intel, early on.

COLLINS: Nick Watt, our reporter on the ground. I don't know if you heard him earlier. But he was talking. He's been in the Palisades. He lives there, also. He's been checking on people's houses for them, some of his friends, who are calling, and they're not in town, and asking, Is my house still there?

And one thing he said that is breaking through today, is people's anger, wanting to know more from officials, that he said, it's just it's very clear and visceral from some people, understandably so.

From your perspective, when you look at this, and people are going to be asking questions, do you feel that the City was prepared for a threat like this one?

SCOTT: This has been extremely challenging. I'm going to be honest. The Los Angeles City Fire Department, we could use more firefighters. Fire Chief Crowley has been on record, saying, We're understaffed, we're under-resourced. And that is something that people above my paygrade are having frank conversations and working on.

[21:15:00]

For us, firefighters, we are challenged to the absolute max, right now. On an average, your Los Angeles City Fire Department is so busy, we run 1,500 emergency incidents and 911 calls every day. We're now running nearly 4,000 during these incidents. There is no stop. And the infrastructure of 4 million people is huge.

COLLINS: Yes.

SCOTT: And really, you go back 60 years ago, and we ran maybe a 100,000 calls a year. Now we're almost 600,000. And so, we're just trying to keep up.

And we are very thankful for mutual aid. That is where neighbor helps neighbor.

COLLINS: Yes.

SCOTT: And we're getting resources beyond, just our nearby companies were coming from out of the states. And that's a big win. We need that help. And that's going to help us lean forward, and continue to strive to battle this.

COLLINS: Well, good to hear those conversations are happening. We'll be interested to see what comes of them.

And of course, for those firefighters, we know they are doing everything. They must be completely exhausted. So, please tell them, everyone's rooting for them, everyone's thinking of them.

Captain Erik Scott, it's great to have you back. Thank you for joining me tonight. SCOTT: Thank you, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: A mother of three children is going to join us next. How she and her family escaped the Palisades fire. What are they going to do, now that they have lost everything?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is (ph) completely on fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: We're also tracking major news from the Supreme Court. They just refused to stop Donald Trump's criminal sentencing. It is now set to happen, tomorrow morning. We'll tell you how that ruling came down, and which justices may have surprised you.

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Breaking news this hour, as firefighters are battling yet another wildfire on the Los Angeles border with Ventura County, as winds are picking up.

Right now, you are looking at live pictures of this new fire here. This is another one that they are dealing with. We just heard from a representative from the L.A. Fire Department, talking about this. California's governor has just deployed 900 more firefighters to go and battle what you are looking at here.

This comes, as we've learned, that President Biden talked to Governor Gavin Newsom, and a number of other elected officials from the state, this evening, to get a check on what is happening on the ground.

That's where we find CNN's Erin Burnett in Pacific Palisades.

Erin, of course, this is just something that officials are dealing with, from the White House, to California, having these conversations about what to deal with.

BURNETT: Yes.

COLLINS: But it's real people that are at the heart of this, that are battling this themselves on a daily basis.

BURNETT: That's right.

And of course, we just got some new satellite images, and that actually show, if you look here, Pacific Palisades, almost every single structure is destroyed. It is really something that would have been impossible for anyone to even think about, just days ago. And then within the space of hours, the fire just moved so quickly down that hill, and just destroyed so many lives, and annihilated an entire small town, entire city, really, within the City of Los Angeles Mercedes Beck was watching. She was evacuated with almost no warning from her condo, and then was shown a picture only afterwards, of what happened to it. Completely gone.

And Mercedes, I am so sorry. I know you and your three children are now dealing with the loss of your home. Your fourth grader, the loss of school. Impossible for anyone to truly imagine.

MERCEDES BECK, LOST HOME IN WILDFIRES: Thank you for covering our town.

BURNETT: And I know, three days ago, probably for you.

So, tell me what happened. How much warning did you even have to get out?

BECK: Thank you, Erin, for having me.

I received a call that there was a fire in the Palisades. I was in Santa Monica. And I think, all of us living in Southern California, we get high anxiety when we hear that.

So, I rushed to my son's elementary school, Pali Elementary. He's a fourth grader. His name's Jack (ph). And I rushed to his classroom, I opened the door. And I didn't want to alarm the other children, and I said, We have a doctor's appointment right now. He's waiting for us. We have to leave right now.

I took my son. We ran to the car. And he was scared. He was crying. I was scared, trying to be calm, and try to get out of Palisades as fast as we could. And thankfully, we did, and so many did, gratefully. It was very scary. Scary for my son, who's 10. And then, wanted to go pick up my other daughter at the middle school. It was just wanting to get everybody safe, and get out as fast as we could. Thankfully.

BURNETT: Yes, just the fear of -- the fear of death, which it would have been. I mean, just -- just so, so horrible.

When you saw a photo -- and I know that a friend actually showed you a photo, as I know it's very hard to come back into these areas, to see your home, your condo. Gosh. Did you even recognize it when you saw the photo of destruction?

BECK: For the first about 24 hours, we didn't know if our condo was gone. There was a lot of questions. And somebody was able to go into the community, and take a photo, and they sent it to us. And it was just crushing, definitely, just absolutely crushing to see. So many memories. It's hard to believe. It's hard to process.

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: And so many friends, so many family members, are going through the same thing in our community. And my heart just aches for everyone going through this.

[21:25:00] BURNETT: Your children, and you talk about Jack (ph) in fourth grade. I mean, his school is gone. I know, at this point, obviously you don't know what will happen next for school, for any of those things. It's just got to be a complete black hole, right now for you.

But how do you even talk about it with him? How are you even managing this?

BECK: Erin, it's one of those things that we're kind of learning as we go, really just a lot of love and support, lots of hugs and lots of reassurance that we're in this together. So many of your friends are going through this. And we're going to get through it, and everything's going to be OK.

Just reassurance, I think, but also letting them feel their feelings, and cry if they want to cry. Just a lot of processing for everybody to go through in the next few days, weeks, months. So, just kind of lots of love and reassurance.

BURNETT: And Mercedes, as you start this, I was talking to someone, who had a condo here in this area of Pacific Palisades. And he was saying even, that their condo is completely gone. They are still expected to pay the mortgage, to pay the HOA, that all these costs are coming in, even as they don't have a home, they have nowhere to go.

These are the realities that can cause such excruciating pain in life. Have you even been confronted with any of that yet?

BECK: It's hard to even get to that point. I'm just so overwhelmed with what's happened. I feel like I -- we need a few days to kind of gather our bearings. And our minds are kind of frozen, in shock and disbelief, and I feel like we just need a few days to process. And then, we'll figure out the next steps, whatever that might be. We don't know what that's going to look like for school, where we're going to live.

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: Just a lot of question marks that we're going to have to walk through in this journey after the fire. There's a lot of question marks, a lot of--

BURNETT: Before--

BECK: --a lot of--

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: Yes.

BURNETT: Well, Mercedes, and it was now a before and an after in your--

BECK: Insurance, what is insurance--

BURNETT: Right, yes. I know. I'm sorry. I think there's a bit of a delay. I didn't mean to step on you. But I know how grateful you are to have your children, and to be with them, that there's nothing more important. And thank goodness for that.

But thank you so much for taking the time to join us. We really are grateful for that. And that is--

BECK: Thank you so much for covering our town.

BURNETT: Yes.

The loss and the trauma, Kaitlan, I think that's also the reality that, that there is just an incredible trauma here. Complete -- somebody described it as literally, sometimes they feel physically frozen, not just mentally or emotionally frozen, but literally physically frozen, as their body physically tries to comprehend what they're going through. And that is the moments that we're in, right now, even as these fires are not contained and continue to spread.

COLLINS: Yes. And a lot of people want to help people, like Mercedes and her family. I know so many people have reached out.

And if you're looking for more information about how you can help Los Angeles wildfire victims, you can go to CNN.com/impact. You can find trusted resources there, and places that you can help people, like Mercedes, and so many others, who are going to need it so desperately.

We're going to continue tracking these fires, and of course, that new one that is broken out that we are keeping a very close eye on this evening.

There's also other big breaking news, here in Washington. The U.S. Supreme Court just rejected Donald Trump's emergency request to block a sentencing, set to happen tomorrow morning. He was citing the fact that he is taking office, in just a matter of days from now. Two conservative justices sided with the liberals. We'll break it down for you, in a moment.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: There's more breaking news tonight, as the Supreme Court, just a short time ago, refusing to stop Donald Trump from being sentenced on 34 felony counts, tomorrow morning. It is a ruling that came down 5-4, with Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett joining the court's liberals, and the majority here.

That means that the President-elect, 10 days before he is going to take the oath of office, will formally be sentenced tomorrow, as a convicted felon, for essentially cooking the books to cover up hush money payments made to a porn star.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: We're going to appeal anyway, just psychologically, because frankly, it's a disgrace. It's a judge that shouldn't have been on the case.

So, I'll do my little thing tomorrow. They can have fun with their political opponent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That was Donald Trump, tonight at Mar-a-Lago, speaking to reporters, right after the Supreme Court order came down.

And we head right to CNN's Elie Honig, who is joining me here.

Elie, you see Donald Trump. He is at Mar-a-Lago there.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

COLLINS: That means he is going to be appealing virtually to -- or on the appearing virtually tomorrow. We'll get to that in a moment.

But on this decision?

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: Everyone is waiting to see what it said. Even people in Trump-world that I've been talking to were kind of divided on whether or not the Supreme Court was going to take their side.

Were you surprised by this?

HONIG: I was surprised it was this close, Kaitlan. We were one vote away from the U.S. Supreme Court, preventing Donald Trump from getting sentenced, by Zoom, to nothing. I mean, that would have damaged the Supreme Court's credibility beyond all recognition.

And I think the opinion that came down, 5-4, letting the sentencing go, I think it was perfectly sound. Basically, the justices in the majority said two things.

First of all, they said, What's the harm? You're going to get sentenced to zero. You can do it by Zoom. You can roll out of bed and do it.

[21:35:00]

And second of all, You do maybe have substantial issues -- I think he has substantial issues on appeal -- But you can handle them through the full appeal process that will follow your sentencing.

COLLINS: They're saying, You don't need to do this right now. There are normal channels to handle this there.

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: But Trump just doesn't want it to happen before he becomes president.

HONIG: And you know what's maybe ironic about it. Trump actually gets a benefit by being sentenced tomorrow, which is once that sentencing is over, as of tomorrow morning, then he can take his full appeals. He can go up the New York Courts of Appeals, he can go maybe to the U.S. Supreme Court, and say, The charge against me was unconstitutional. Which I think it may be. He can say that the jury was not properly instructed.

But if he had gotten his way, if he was not sentenced tomorrow? He would not have been able to appeal. That would have been it. So this sentence would have sort of died in netherworld.

COLLINS: Well, and part of their argument had been that it was going to be too tough for him to get sentenced tomorrow, that he couldn't show up to the sentencing in New York.

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: The justices made a point, the five who ruled that he -- that he -- this could happen, and said that it was relatively insubstantial, in light of what the court is saying that they're going to do, which is to impose that sentence of unconditional discharge.

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: And it's a brief virtual hearing. He doesn't have to be there in-person, tomorrow.

HONIG: So, this was a smart move by Judge Merchan. Because he said, last week, I'm going to sentence you to essentially nothing, and you can do it by Zoom.

If Merchan had not done that, if he just said, Appear for sentencing, Friday, it will be like any other sentencing. You don't know what you're going to get until I tell you? That might have changed the Supreme Court's calculus.

Because Trump's argument was, I could be subject to what we call irreparable harm. And if Trump was able to say, I don't know, maybe this guy's going to try to lock me up. Maybe he's going to impose some serious penalty. Maybe I don't have the time, as President-elect, to travel to New York, and sit in a courtroom, and go through security?

Instead, Merchan absolutely minimized that.

COLLINS: OK. So, he appears virtually via, I'll call it, Zoom. I don't even know what it's--

HONIG: Zoom, yes, something like that.

COLLINS: --what it is for the court system.

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: When you get sentenced, do you have an option to say something, right?

HONIG: You just -- you just hit on what the biggest point is going to be to watch for tomorrow.

Any defendant at sentencing absolutely has a right to speak. Almost always, they do. So, Trump might say, I have nothing to say, Your Honor. Or, he might give us a rant. I mean, I would bet on that, because, look, he got nothing to lose. He knows he's getting sentenced to nothing.

So, watch that part.

COLLINS: So, even if he speaks before the sentencing, and goes off on the judge--

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: --which he does, and did tonight?

HONIG: Which he will.

COLLINS: That won't change how Merchan sentences him?

HONIG: Well, Merchan left himself a tiny bit of wiggle room, right? He didn't say, I promise, I will sentence you. He said, I intend to sentence you.

But I think it would take an awfully lot, to push Merchan from, sentence you to unconditional discharge, to lashing out with the sentence.

COLLINS: Gorsuch. Kavanaugh. Roberts (ph)--

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: --Alito.

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: They were willing to stop this. Where, what's the -- make that argument.

HONIG: Their argument would be as a purely procedural matter, Trump was still in the process of appealing based on immunity, right? We got the immunity ruling, six months ago. And if you look at a certain way, procedurally, while you're appealing on immunity, as a defendant, you're entitled to a complete stay, meaning no trial, no sentencing, no nothing.

But the majority, and again, Amy Coney Barrett and John Roberts, who joined with the liberals, said, But if there's no harm, there's no harm. And that's really what carried the day here.

COLLINS: So this news. And then right after that, it came down, the effort to keep the Special Counsel's report away from public view. Also, Trump lost on that. They can still appeal it. We'll see what happens, and likely.

HONIG: Yes. We're going to see -- I'll spoil that. We're going to see those reports, eventually.

COLLINS: OK, well, we might see you back here, tomorrow night.

HONIG: I'll see you, tomorrow.

COLLINS: Elie Honig, so thank you for that.

HONIG: Thank you.

COLLINS: Up next. Of course, we are continuing to keep a close eye on what is happening on the ground in Los Angeles. Fighting these fires from the air, was my next guest's former job. Now, he is a U.S. senator. We're going to talk to him about what he says is needed to prevent future disasters, like the one that so many Angelenos are living through right now.

[21:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Firefighting planes and helicopters have finally been able to launch an air attack on those fires, burning across Los Angeles today. The same winds spreading the fires had kept those planes grounded. And you saw President Biden announce today, the federal government is going to also be supplying dozens of aircraft to help aid in this fight.

Already today, the FAA says an illegally-operated drone collided with a firefighting aircraft, which luckily was able to land safely, this evening.

We're keeping a close eye on all of that.

I'm joined now by a member of the U.S. Senate, who actually used to work as an aerial firefighter. The just sworn-in freshman Senator from Montana, Senator Tim Sheehy is the former CEO of an aerial firefighting company.

And it's great to have you here.

I think you're the only former aerial firefighter in the Senate?

SEN. TIM SHEEHY (R-MT): I would assume so.

COLLINS: Tell me if I'm wrong. I checked, I didn't see any others.

First off, just on what it is like to be in those planes, in those helicopters that are doing this. Can you just walk us through that, as we're watching and seeing just how pivotal they've been playing a role in this tonight?

SHEEHY: Well, it's important for people to know, it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. Just this last summer, we lost four firefighting pilots around the U.S.. And around the world, every year, you'll read stories about it. You're flying these planes through smoke and ash, through incredible turbulence, high winds. And of course, you're close to the ground. High terrain. You've got mountains on either side. And you've got a lot of other aircraft in the area.

And as you just mentioned, I can show you a picture in a minute here, about the aircraft that was actually impacted by the drone, tore a hole in the wing. When you're flying through at that speed--

COLLINS: Wow.

SHEEHY: --a small plastic drone can do great damage.

So, it's a dangerous mission. All the more reason we have to be vigilant on the ground for these wildfires, because the ground firefighters are in a tremendous amount of danger, and the aerial firefighters are as well. It's a dangerous job, but it's an incredibly important one that we have to do, to protect our communities.

COLLINS: So what happens? I mean, given you've been there. What happens when we're in a situation we've been in the last 48 hours, where they can't get in the sky?

SHEEHY: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean, you're just seeing these on-the-ground firefighters, who are in trucks, trying to get up roads that are blocked by cars, where people were trying to just flee and escape.

[21:45:00]

I mean, what are the options there? Because they're dealing with these hydrants. They're going into these neighborhoods, and dealing with what you're using to fight a house fire, typically. And instead, they're fighting five fires at once.

SHEEHY: And that's exactly right. And there's a huge dichotomy, in America, between structural firefighting, the red fire truck, traditional firemen everyone's familiar with, and wildland firefighting. And unfortunately, because they're treated so differently, from a funding perspective, and from a code perspective, we're not nearly as ready to fight wildfires in this country as we should be.

And we've seen that in the last year and a half. Lahaina, Maui. I mean Hawaii, who thinks of Hawaii, when they think of wildfires, whole town wiped off the map. Right now, we're seeing L.A. being burned to the ground. And the entire wildfire community has been speaking for years, shouting from the rooftops that this big one was going to be coming, and we're not ready. And now, we're seeing the impacts of that.

COLLINS: But how do you get ready in this instance? I mean, if there are more aerial firefighters, but they can't go out--

SHEEHY: Yes. COLLINS: --so they obviously have to be careful with the winds. And so, what is the alternative to something like that? Or is it you just wait for the winds to die down?

SHEEHY: Well, number one is code. So, we need to be ready for these fires beforehand. So aggressive vegetation management. We have to make sure we actually have water sources available. You've been seeing a lot of criticism of the California government, and other entities in the government, not unfairly, about the restriction of water use.

So, there will be reservoirs of water that during a wildfire, you literally will have to fly over, and go to water further away to scoop, or to pick up with a helicopter bucket, because there's a Eurasian snailfish or smelt or some water mussel in that lake, they don't want you to touch because it's an invasive species.

OK, that's important. But guess what? When people's homes are being burned to the ground, and people are evacuating, we should be getting these red-tape Endangered Species Acts, Protection Acts, out of the way, so we can actively fight the fires and protect these communities.

COLLINS: Yes, well, and so I had heard that, and we've been talking to some officials. They were saying, Well, these reservoirs, they were all full. They were either at or above historic levels.

So, when you're dealing with that, and you're confronting that kind of a situation here, and you've been talking about, what you're getting at there is just a total overhaul of the federal wildfire system. What are the other things that Congress should be looking at, or that officials should be looking at here?

SHEEHY: Speed, initial attack. So, in America, if you dial 911, in this building or at your home, there will be a fire engine at this address in five minutes. That's national code, NFPA 4 9 1710. It is required nationally.

There is no national code to respond to a wildland fire. It can take hours. It can take days, before an aircraft or a fire truck can respond to a wildland fire. We have to reform that. That's number one.

Number two, appropriate resource coverage. Basically, our wildland firefighting apparatus shuts down outside the summer. We treat these firefighters, who are brave first responders, we treat them like seasonal ski resort employees. They get underpaid, they don't get benefits, they don't get medical care, if they get injured on the job.

I mean, if a veteran like me? I'm a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. You get wounded, come home? You get a fantastic array of care. It's not always the best, coordinated through the V.A., but we do our best for our troops. Wildland firefighters don't get any of that.

So, we need to treat our wildland firefighters like the professionals they are, and we have to have them ready year-round. As we see, it's January. This isn't July or August. It's January. We have to be able to respond to fires, all over the country, year-round. COLLINS: And that kind of puts you in agreement with someone, I'm assuming, maybe you're not always in agreement with, Governor Gavin Newsom of California.

He was talking to Anderson, last night, and he said, it is January. And he was saying, how they're contracted out, typically what the season is, he was saying. And I was just there last week. They haven't had any rain. He was -- he said, fire season is year-round now. There is no specific season like it was before, how you treated it before.

That needs to be different, you think?

SHEEHY: We had wildfires, as you and I were speaking about beforehand, in New Jersey, in November, in Texas, in March. Now, we're seeing them in L.A., in January. So, it's a year-round threat. It's a 50-state threat, from Hawaii, to New Jersey, to Texas, to California, and everywhere in between. And we have to be ready, year-round.

And the beauty of what you just said is this can be a bipartisan solution. In a hyper-polarized country, we're seeing an issue that Andy Kim and I, Adam Schiff and I probably don't agree on a whole lot. I'm a conservative Republican from a red state. Andy -- Adam Schiff, and Andy Kim, and I, and many others, Jacky Rosen from Nevada, are saying, We need to fix this problem.

COLLINS: Yes.

SHEEHY: These fires don't understand associating on a status or a party. They're going to burn our houses the same way. Let's get ready.

COLLINS: Yes. And given that. I mean, you're new to Congress, been there a couple days.

SHEEHY: Three days. Three days.

COLLINS: They're not always--

SHEEHY: That's more than a couple.

COLLINS: Three days.

They're not always good at getting things done.

SHEEHY: Yes.

COLLINS: And there have been efforts to try to do something like this, where it just never gets out of committee.

How do you make that different this time? For people, who are watching, who are saying, they are tired of things like this that happened in Washington, and there isn't breakthrough there.

SHEEHY: Well, I think regardless of party, I do think what we've heard from the American people, this election cycle, is they are tired of process excuses. They really are. I mean, I think we're what 4 percent approval rating with the American people, Congress is? People don't really respect us or like us.

They want results. And they don't want process excuses. So, I do think we have -- we have a bit of a mandate from the American people to say, Let's start fixing these problems.

[21:50:00]

So, we do have bipartisan support. We're going to put a bill on the table, Tuesday, I think, that I'm leading right now. Already, given my background, that's got a tremendous amount of support, in the House and the Senate, on both sides of the aisle, and President Trump has been very vocally supportive as well.

We're going to try to start making these changes immediately, and punch through the bureaucracy. Because we have brave firefighters out there on the ground, and they need the right amount of support, and they're not getting it.

COLLINS: Anything you want to say to those aerial firefighters, tonight? I mean, you know what they are going through right now.

SHEEHY: I know some of them personally. I'm texting them, in touch with them, right now.

And, listen, stay safe out there. You're in our thoughts and prayers.

To the ground firefighters, thank you to what you do.

And, of course, to the citizens affected, just stay safe. Get out of there, listen to the evacuation instructions. And we're going to fix this problem, so this doesn't happen again.

COLLINS: Yes. Senator Sheehy, thank you very much for your time. Welcome to Congress.

SHEEHY: Thank you.

COLLINS: We'll obviously stay tuned.

We're going to get a live update from Malibu, next. Seafront homes are now gone. A new death is being reported tonight. We have new details, in just a moment.

[21:55:00]

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COLLINS: Tonight, a heartbreaking look at one of the victims of the Los Angeles wildfires, as we now know that Rodney Nickerson, who was an 83-year-old grandfather, was found by his family in the rubble of his home, in Altadena.

Kimiko Nickerson said that her dad lived in the house since 1968 when he purchased it for $5.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIMIKO NICKERSON, DAUGHTER OF RODNEY NICKERSON: Said, he'll be fine. I'll be here when you guys come back. And he said his house would be here.

His house is here, and he was here too. He was in his bed, when I found him.

The last thing he verbally said to me was, I'll be here tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Our thoughts are just with the Nickerson family for their loss tonight, and for so many others who are grieving the losses of loved ones, or their homes, or everything they have. That's why this is such an important story for us to keep following, to remember the people who are at the heart of all of this.

Bill Weir is on the ground for CNN, in Malibu, tonight.

And Bill, just to hear that story of her -- of her father saying, I'll be here tomorrow. And then, and then -- having to find this, and to find that he was in his bed.

I mean, you're seeing, what you're seeing in real-time on the ground. And we're getting drone footage. It shows just how widespread this devastation is, where you are, in Malibu. I mean, these are oceanfront homes that are just nothing now, nothing.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. Exactly. This little strip between Pacific Coast Highway and the ocean, some of the most unique, valuable property anywhere in the country.

And just mile after mile, as you go west from Topanga Canyon, it looks like this. It's just, it's ash. It's still smoldering metal, in some cases. Cars that have been bombed out as well. Because those embers just came screaming over these hillsides, on Tuesday night, and anything that was potential fuel got caught up in that. There are some fickle little spots, where they oddly survived. But this is just going to mount to the price tag of this.

And you can talk about property values. But right now, as you demonstrated so well, these are human lives. And you never know the last time you're going to say goodbye to somebody, worst-case, or a place where so many memories were made. Iconic restaurants along the coast here, Moonshadows, Reel Inn, places where memories were formed with families, those are gone. Businesses gutted here as well.

And so, just about five years ago, the Woolsey fire ripped through the other side of Malibu, and that was considered the worst in history. Now this is -- this is levels of magnitude worse, because this is all part of that Palisades fire. 9,000 structures, they're estimating, and some of them just some of the most spectacular neighborhoods in the country, really. So everything is still coming to grips with this.

I was also up in Topanga Canyon today, where, thankfully this respite in the winds gave firefighters a chance to try to knock down a couple of fires that were encroaching on the community, there. Those folks pulling together, rooting for firefighters, saying, Save the politics for later. Right now, these guys are heroes, these men and women who are up here in these canyons, and in the sky above us, trying to knock these things down.

But this is really unfolding, Kaitlan, as you know, and those red-flag warnings could continue, and the Santa Anas could kick up tonight, tomorrow, and then--

COLLINS: Yes.

WEIR: --for a third, and maybe even stronger night coming up.

COLLINS: You know, it's -- what's hard for me to think about Bill is that, we just heard from Kimiko there, talking about her dad.

We've heard from officials who say we don't even know what the death toll is. It's too dangerous to go into some of these areas, that they don't really have even an accurate picture, at this moment, of what that death toll really is.

WEIR: And we're in this cycle, unfortunately, that is so familiar from Lahaina, and even from Paradise before, where the -- we're now in this sort of zone of uncertainty. There's still active fires out there. There's still gas leaks. You got to make sure that these places are safe before forensic teams can go in and check.

And people are just getting -- every hour that goes by, where they don't know where a loved one is, they wonder. So, there's going to be inflated numbers in the beginning right now. But certainty is something we need, sooner than later.

[22:00:00]

COLLINS: Yes. It's just hard to even think about, already looking at the devastation, and that on top of it.

Bill Weir, in Malibu, thank you for bringing us the reports from there, on the ground, letting us get an up-close look at all of it.

Thank you all so much for joining us on this very busy hour.

We're going to continue to follow all of this. "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.