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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Trump To Take Oath Of Office Inside The Capitol Rotunda; TikTok: App Will Be "Forced To Go Dark" On Sunday; Ohio Lt. Gov. Picked To Fill JD Vance's Senate Seat. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 17, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL DATA REPORTER: Let's take a look at the final matchup.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: OK.

ENTEN: This should be the easiest one.

COOPER: OK.

ENTEN: Can we get the final matchup?

COOPER: Those are the Buffalo Bills--

ENTEN: Yes.

COOPER: --and the Baltimore birds. Ravens. Ravens.

ENTEN: Yes.

COOPER: Yes? OK.

ENTEN: Anderson, I--

COOPER: Thank you.

ENTEN: And who's going to win on Sunday?

COOPER: The Buffalo Bills.

ENTEN: Yes.

COOPER: OK.

The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE, tonight.

Moving inside. We have brand-new details on the scramble, at this late hour, to plan and protect President-elect Trump's inauguration. Moved indoors, because D.C. is about to plunge into a dangerous deep freeze.

And breaking news, this hour. Trump's former Vice President Mike Pence is expected to attend Trump's second inauguration. The site, where Pence would not help Trump overturn the 2020 election. Maggie Haberman broke the story, and she'll join me live in moments.

And just a few moments ago, TikTok said, it is going to be forced to go dark in 48 hours from now, unless the Biden administration steps in and gives more clarity on that ban, set to go into effect on Sunday.

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

Good evening. You're looking live at the U.S. Capitol tonight, where the platform has been built, the stage is set, the date is certain, and the guests are already arriving in droves. But unfortunately, somebody forgot to tell the weather to cooperate.

That means instead of the scene that we saw eight years ago, on the west front of the Capitol, this is where Donald Trump will take the oath of office on Monday, and be sworn in as the nation's 47th president.

Inside the Capitol Rotunda, surrounded by family, close friends, members of Congress, dignitaries, a couple billionaires, Trump will be the first president, in 40 years, to take the oath indoors, instead of out. Or as Politico put it, earlier today, Trump is kicking off his second term using his inside voice.

This change was prompted and, frankly, necessitated by conditions so freezing cold, on Monday, it was deemed too dangerous to keep people outside for that long.

It's been a mad scramble tonight to set the new scene, including, look at this. Someone put all those chairs down, and now they're all being folded up, and hauled away, as they are just changing everything they've been planning for months, within a matter of hours.

Now, we have not seen a president sworn in, inside, since Ronald Reagan, when he took the oath to begin his second term in 1985.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The President's second inaugural took place in a capital, frozen by near-zero temperatures.

Beneath the 18-storey U.S. Capitol dome, Ronald Reagan took the oath of office.

RONALD REAGAN, 40TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only a fraction of the 140,000 invited guests was able to squeeze into the Rotunda to hear the President's inaugural address.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: As you can see, from that scene, in 1985, it can sure cram a lot of people into that space, but certainly not everyone. It was just seven degrees, back on that day, which almost makes what's happening in D.C., on Monday, look balmy, a forecast with a high of 23 degrees. But emphasis there on, almost.

With the wind chill, it is going to feel much closer to zero, certainly in the early hours of the day, when everyone starts lining up for that inauguration. That was the concern that I heard from officials, who are planning the inauguration, earlier today, and a big reason of why they made this call to move things indoors.

And I should note, speaking of who's going to be in the room, on Monday. CNN has just confirmed reporting from The New York Times that the former Vice President, Mike Pence, is planning to attend the inauguration.

Now, we know he's currently in Taiwan. It remains to be seen whether he actually makes it to Washington, logistically, on Monday. But if he is there, he will be in a noticeably different seat than he was four years ago, when he attended President Biden's inauguration, and of course, Donald Trump did not. Or the four years before that, when he was up there being sworn in as the Vice President.

My sources tonight are:

Former New York City Mayor, Bill de Blasio.

CNN Political Commentator, S.E. Cupp, here at the table.

Can we just -- I want to talk to you guys about this moving inside. But S.E., just the idea that Mike Pence might be there on Monday. I mean, I was just saying, if you had told him eight years ago--

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

COLLINS: --that he would be attending Donald Trump's inauguration, his second one, but he would not be up there with him. I mean, I don't know that any of us would have maybe believed that.

CUPP: No, and it's pretty big of him, I think, to show up. I mean, I know that there is some bitterness between Trump and Pence. It goes both ways.

[21:05:00]

And listen, when you get invited to an audience with the President, you say, yes. And kudos to the Bidens for going, and kudos to the Bushes for going, and Barack Obama for going, because you got to put politics aside. Grow up, put on your big -- your big boy pants, and show up, and show some unity. So huge of Mike Pence, if true.

COLLINS: Well, and it was just, I mean, the Capitol just obviously carries such significance with Pence, especially because he was -- that's where he was on January 6th, as the votes were being certified, and he was being pressured to do something he didn't feel that he could do. And obviously, where he was evacuated by the U.S. Secret Service because they were worried that they were trying to kill him. BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Look, I may not be a Mike Pence sycophant. But I have to say, there's something almost defiant about showing up. And I kind of appreciate it.

CUPP: Yes.

DE BLASIO: I think it's a symbol of a reminder that there's supposed to be some balance and some order to these things, and there's supposed to be respect for whoever wins, whoever loses.

And in a funny way, I think he's reclaiming his place and saying, You tried to run me out one time, but here I'm back because I earned this right to be here on an ongoing basis. I kind of admire it.

COLLINS: Yes, and just on the inauguration itself, and what that's going to look like on Monday.

CUPP: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean, I think everyone who is going to be there can understand why this happened, given what the temperatures are going to look like. And just you're outside for so long on that day--

CUPP: Yes.

COLLINS: --and what the weather looks like, I mean. But seeing this, it's going to be something that no one, frankly, has seen in 40 years.

CUPP: And something I'm sure Donald Trump is not psyched about, right? He likes the optics of the big event and -- but listen, there's going to be a lot of elderly infirm people there. I'm not just talking about the senators.

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: But, look, it's an aging--

COLLINS: Welcome to the table, by the way.

ENTEN: Thank you.

CUPP: --crowd.

COLLINS: Harry Enten.

(LAUGHTER)

COLLINS: People might be wondering, Who's that voice, laughing?

DE BLASIO: That's right.

ENTEN: That New York Jewish accent? Yes, that's me on the Sabbath. Yes, let's continue on.

CUPP: But you can think William Henry Harrison, right, died three weeks after his inauguration because it was so cold, and he got pneumonia.

COLLINS: And he spoke for two hours.

CUPP: That's right.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

CUPP: Refused to wear a coat.

So, I mean, it's real. We're joking. But like, these are real concerns. I'm actually very proud of them for making this decision, and doing the right thing.

COLLINS: I mean, you're the only person at this table, I believe, unless Harry's got something he hasn't told me, that has actually had an inauguration.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean, this is a huge logistical--

ENTEN: Student Council. You're not counting Student Council. Continue.

COLLINS: That's an asterisk.

This is a huge logistical challenge, though, Mr. Mayor--

DE BLASIO: Yes.

COLLINS: --in terms of changing all of this and getting all of this in order. There are so many people coming, that are high profile, and that are going to be there, but also just regular people who are coming to watch.

DE BLASIO: Yes. Well, first of all, we should also note, it takes the entire crowd size discussion off the table. And I'm not a cynic that says, Oh, they're doing it for that reason. But I do want to note we're not going to have that debate once and for all, just happy.

But the interesting question to me is also, does this setting bring out anything different in Donald Trump?

I am reminded by the fact that the last inauguration speech was a shock to our system, This American carnage, right?

CUPP: Yes.

DE BLASIO: I don't think we had quite seen anything like it in 250 years of American history.

There was a chance to moderate then. There was a chance to be a different Donald Trump going into office. He didn't take it.

Let's remember there was a chance at the recent Republican convention in the summer to moderate after the assassination attempt. He did not take that opportunity, except for the first few minutes. Here's an interesting question. It should be his final term. He's in the United States Capitol, a different kind of setting. Does he show any signs of moderation, of actually reaching out a hand to folks who don't necessarily agree with him? This would be the time to do it. I'm not predicting it, but this would be the time to do it.

COLLINS: Oh, and Harry, he's coming into office with a high approval rating.

ENTEN: Right.

COLLINS: Higher numbers than he's had in quite some time.

ENTEN: Ever.

COLLINS: But also very -- ever. But also very high expectations of what he pledged on the campaign trail, in terms of lowering grocery prices and inflation.

ENTEN: A 100 percent.

COLLINS: Securing the southern border, actions he plans to take on day one. I mean, he has a lot on the to-do list that those voters are counting on.

ENTEN: Absolutely. It's so easy being in the opposition, because all I have to say is, That guy over there, he's bad, he's no good. Now the bucks will stop with him. Even if he doesn't believe it, the American public will believe it.

And if you look at our last CNN poll, for example, I think it was 56 percent of Americans thought that Trump would do a good job in his second term, which is considerably higher than his approval rating ever was during his first term.

The question is, with this new Trump coalition -- and it's a unique coalition. More young voters than I think Republicans are used to. More minorities than Republicans are ever used to. Combining that with the white working-class and, of course, the donor class. How do you actually reconcile all those and give each of those groups what they want. It may end up being far more difficult than he possibly ever imagined.

CUPP: Well, all those groups are linked. Because I talked to hundreds of voters, in the swing states, over this last election. All those groups, those disparate groups of voters, are linked over three core issues. It's the economy, immigration and crime. That's what we heard from a majority of people, who intended to vote for Donald Trump.

[21:10:00]

What they didn't do is say, We're voting for Donald Trump to pardon the Jan 6th insurrectionists, or to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal.

If he keeps focusing on all this extraneous stuff, I think you're right, the voters will have something to say, come midterms.

But if he focuses on those three core issues, he unites everyone that voted for him.

ENTEN: On what planet have we ever dealt with, where Donald Trump is able to keep his eye on the ball?

CUPP: No, I know.

ENTEN: It's never happened.

CUPP: I know.

ENTEN: So the idea that he's going to be able to do it now strike me as a little bit skeptical. But then again, Donald Trump has proven me wrong once or twice.

DE BLASIO: Yes, but he also has a problem with incredibly high expectation.

ENTEN: Yes.

DE BLASIO: I think one of the things that we have to recognize here is a lot of presidents come into office with goodwill. He has literally said the equivalent of, he'll cure cancer, like he is going to stop the problem at the border. He's going to do, he's going to make the economy great for everyone. He's going to solve inflation. These are not doable things, necessarily.

There's a famous story from when Nelson Mandela, a great liberation hero, becomes president. And a typical South African citizen was interviewed, and she said, Mandela is now president, where is my house? I needed a new house. Why haven't I gotten my new house?

Can Trump, in some way, show people that he makes enough difference in their life, in the next couple of years? Or is there going to be a sense of letdown. He promised us the moon and the stars, and we didn't get them.

COLLINS: Well, and he is coming into office, though, with very low numbers at the border. I think they're the lowest since when Trump actually left office. And also good economic numbers, which -- so he's coming into it, like a relatively good situation, despite how it's always framed.

But I do want to standby on what -- what we're going to hear in that speech. They're still putting the final touches on it, we've been hearing.

But as far as the final touches on actually, what we're going to be looking at, on Monday, former DHS official, Juliette Kayyem, is here.

And Juliette, just from a security perspective--

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DHS: Yes. COLLINS: --we're hearing tonight that law enforcement agencies are still working to craft a new plan. They actually spent months on the old one.

KAYYEM: Yes.

COLLINS: What does that look like behind-the-scenes? And is it easier if it's inside?

KAYYEM: It is easier, simply because what we would call the security footprint is much narrower. I mean, you really, think of what it would look like outside, the number of people that could attend, that could have access. This is just going to be smaller, more intimate.

The irony, of course, I'll let political people debate it, is that the Capitol is much better secure, because of the insurrection, four years ago. So Capitol Police have increased in size, increased in their capacity.

Here's what's not changing. The threat environment does not change. So it's going to be specific. This is still what's called a national special secure -- National Security Special Event, NSSE, and it is one in which, basically the Secret Service is in charge. They will work with local, other federal, including the Capitol Police, other federal law enforcement. But they have to pivot very, very quickly.

This has been done before, but a long time ago. Even, there's not going to be much of a legacy. So they're putting those plans together.

But the threat environment and of course, two assassination attempts against Donald Trump, have not changed. So, they're going to keep focused on the event, the inauguration itself, the post event, whatever other things, events that will be occurring, and the movement of the president from point A to point B to point C. It's the movement that is always the sort of risky part.

COLLINS: Yes, Juliette makes a good point, Harry, on terms of what that looks like, especially -- I mean, if you've been in the Capitol, and I was there, in Washington, this morning--

CUPP: Yes.

COLLINS: --they've already started putting the security way back. It did change after January 6th, how they secured the Capitol, and how they even did it for the inauguration, last time. I mean, you can't get anywhere close to it--

ENTEN: No.

COLLINS: --without having a badge or the right credentials to get in.

ENTEN: No, it's -- you know, look, I'm not a security expert by any means. But I went to both conventions, this past year. One of those was after the first assassination attempt against Donald Trump.

COLLINS: The day after. ENTEN: Yes. It was, the security was so tight, it was Nutter Butter. I don't think people who haven't been there could possibly understand the level of security and how difficult it is to get around.

One thing I do want to note, though, is, this is going to now, you're going to have that viewing party at the Capital One Arena. That's going to be very interesting. How they're going to secure that if Trump, in fact, is going to go over there, after his speech, at the Capitol.

And the other thing I'll just note, the Mayor was talking about this earlier, will take away from the crowd size discussion. No, no, no. He's going to go ahead and say, This was the greatest crowd size, it was far bigger than Reagan's in the Capitol. And then he's going to say, I filled up the Capitol arena more than anyone has ever filled it up. It was filled up to the rafters.

All the arguments from Trump are still going to be there, even if we are dealing with the security situation that truly was not force -- was unforeseen, but fortunately, we got good people working on it, right now.

COLLINS: Yes. I mean, instead of seeing that iconic image, that actually is a tradition started by President Jimmy Carter, where they got out of the presidential motorcade--

DE BLASIO: Yes.

COLLINS: --and walked down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House, and they always come inside. I mean, these are iconic images from the inauguration. We won't see that because he will be going, as we're expecting right now, to where they're moving it inside, to try to protect those people.

DE BLASIO: Right. And it does take something away.

[21:15:00]

When Carter did that, I am happy to tell you, I was a very young man, but a political nerd, and I was there, and was -- we were all in shock, just as a regular person, out in the crowd, and when he got out of the car--

COLLINS: You were there when President Carter got out of the car?

DE BLASIO: Yes, I was.

COLLINS: That's so cool.

DE BLASIO: Fifth--

COLLINS: You know I'm obsessed with President Carter. So, I love that.

DE BLASIO: Well, it's a good obsession. He's a fascinating human being. 15-years-old, I was there. And it was fascinating when they got out of the car, because it fit, you know, he had that whole message of being a person from a small town, and simple values, and not from Washington.

And then, they got out of the car, and it was like, they were breaking all of the regal traditions, the imperial traditions, and connecting with the people. And it was beautiful and meaningful, especially after Watergate, and everything else that had made people cynical.

So, I think it actually is an important moment for a president to show they feel a connection to the people. They're thanking the people in a sense of that moment.

CUPP: Yes.

COLLINS: Yes. We'll see what that looks like.

I love that you were there for that. That's so cool.

Thank you, everyone, Harry, S.E. as well. More to come on the breaking news this hour -- Juliette too.

Former Vice President Mike Pence now planning to go to the inauguration, on Monday, of course, despite their years-long rift over the 2020 election, and Trump just saying that, Anyone who worked for Pence can't come work for him.

Maggie Haberman was the first to break this news. She is here after the break.

And also, TikTok has a warning coming out tonight that it's going to go dark, less than 48 hours from now, unless President Biden does something.

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Some breaking news this hour, as the former Vice President Mike Pence now plans to attend President-elect Trump's inauguration on Monday.

Of course, that will be a notable presence, if it happens, given Pence was beside Trump, at the very same ceremony, eight years ago. That relationship that was on display then, of course, fractured four years later, when Pence refused Trump's efforts to try to get him to overturn the 2020 election.

Trump's followers chanted Hang Mike Pence, as they attacked the Capitol, on January 6th. That was when Pence was there for the certification of the election, and had to be rushed out by the Secret Service because of that scene that you see there.

My source tonight is Maggie Haberman. She was the first to break this reporting, and is a Senior Political Correspondent for The New York Times.

Maggie, just on the idea that Pence would be there. I mean, it is such a far cry from thinking about that four years ago, of him being here, when he attended Biden's inauguration, and Trump did not, or even just eight years ago, seeing that moment and seeing what that dynamic could look like now.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Look, it's definitely notable, Kaitlan. And as you note, he's planning to attend. He's traveling overseas, right now. We will see what ends up happening.

It's also notable that the inauguration is now -- the swearing-in is now being moved inside the Rotunda. And so, I don't know what the seating configuration is going to be like. It holds far fewer people than were expected outside. It is -- there's going to be a lot of jostling for seats.

It is going to be significant to have him there. I mean, as you note, he is a traditionalist. He believes that it is important, as I understand it, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents to show up, and to continue on with this tradition. But it will certainly be an unusual moment.

And it will be interesting to see if he and President-elect Donald Trump interacted at all. They obviously did at Jimmy Carter's funeral, the other day. This is a different setting.

And it's also worth remembering. Mike Pence ran against Donald Trump. He challenged him in the primary, and it didn't last very long. But he did attempt to try to preserve his view of the Republican Party, and of conservatism, as opposed to the MAGA movement.

COLLINS: Well, and Jimmy Carter's funeral was the first time that Trump and Pence had been in the same room since--

HABERMAN: Correct.

COLLINS: --since January 2021. And there was that moment where Pence stood up and shook his hand. He congratulated him, he later said, on winning.

Karen Pence did not move.

HABERMAN: Right.

COLLINS: She did not get up from her seat to say hi, to Melania Trump, or to Donald Trump. Speaking of the seating.

But just the idea to see the two of them potentially in the exact same place, where Pence was rushed out on January 6th, would be remarkable.

HABERMAN: It will be remarkable.

And it's also, Kaitlan, we should note that he was invited by the Joint Congressional Committee that oversees Inaugural Ceremonies. He was not invited by anyone around Trump. So, I just want to make that clear. He was invited as part of past presidencies, and that is -- that is the capacity in which, if he shows up, he will do so.

But yes, this is -- look, as you say, he was there for Biden's swearing-in. That was 14 days after the attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob. But this is the first time that he will be there, in this moment, while Trump is having his ascension. It will be a striking moment, both for Pence and for Trump.

COLLINS: Yes. And of course, we know, after Trump was sworn in and takes the oath of office, he's going to go to the White House, and we're expecting--

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: --a lot of executive orders, and quick moves, on what he promised on day one.

HABERMAN: Right.

COLLINS: And The Wall Street Journal says tonight that those mass deportations, the pledge that he repeated always, on the campaign trail, that Chicago is going to be an early target of the raids that they are beginning.

And we just heard from Trump's border czar, Tom Homan. He was on Fox News, moments ago, and he was asked about this report. And here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, TRUMP'S INCOMING BORDER CZAR: There is going to be a big raid all across the country. Now, you know, Chicago is just one of many places.

On Tuesday you can expect ICE is -- ICE is finally going to go out and do their job. We're going to take the handcuffs off ICE, and let them go arrest criminal aliens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Based on your reporting, what will next week look like?

[21:25:00]

HABERMAN: There's a lot of it that is still closely held, Kaitlan, within the Trump team. But there are going to be hundreds of executive actions, I was told by one senior official today, within these executive orders. I do expect a number about immigration. I do expect a number about energy. And then there are going to be on a wide range of topics.

But what's been described to me by a number of different people is that there are executive orders that basically cover every campaign promise that President-elect Donald Trump made, at one point or another. Does he sign all of those? That remains to be seen. This is really going to be his choosing, and not anyone else's. Do they do them all at once? That's been a series -- a series of discussions and, in some cases, debates, within the Trump team.

But I do expect there is going to be a lot on Monday. He's expected, as you said, to go to the White House, after he is sworn in, at some point, not right away, but after he is sworn in, and start signing these executive orders. And I think that you are going to see activity around policy through much of the week.

COLLINS: Yes, and on that. Today, we were watching Kristi Noem, the DHS choice, the Department of Homeland Security choice, testify on Capitol Hill. But really, Stephen Miller and Tom Homan that we just heard from there, they're going to be spearheading this--

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: --based on what we've heard from people, in terms of what those executive orders, and what this immigration policy--

HABERMAN: Right.

COLLINS: --is going to look like.

HABERMAN: Absolutely. Look, Stephen Miller has been the architect of these policies for Trump for some time. He is one of Trump's closest advisers.

He is the person, as Jonathan Swan, and Charlie Savage, and David Fahrenthold, and I, reported, this week, he has spent the most time of anyone who was in the first Trump administration, trying to map out what a second Trump administration could look like on policy.

He is channeling Trump. These are things that he knows, that Trump wants. He is very good at distilling Trump's voice in speeches, which he often writes, and immigration is his big issue.

One thing that really got overlooked Kaitlan, by the way, when Stephen Miller's title was announced, Deputy Chief of Staff over Policy, yes, but also the Homeland Security Adviser.

And in that capacity, he is going to be working very closely with Tom Homan, who is the border czar, who Stephen Miller thinks very highly of, according to a number of people, to try to impact and influence Trump's immigration policy, for as long as they can.

Now, does it look like everything they said was going to happen, during the campaign? I don't know. It remains to be seen, if they move ahead with, say, building camps to engage in these mass deportations. Or do they just deport people directly? We're going to see what this looks like.

But I expect that Stephen Miller is going to continue with what he was doing, in the first term, and in many cases, was stopped by the agencies that oversee immigration. COLLINS: Yes. And as Tom Homan told me, when we spoke to him, there's no daylight between him and Stephen Miller.

HABERMAN: Right.

COLLINS: Maggie Haberman, great reporting.

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: We'll see you next week. Thank you for that.

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: Up next here. TikTok is pressuring the Biden administration, just moments ago, saying they have to act immediately, or they are going to be forced to go dark in hours because of that pending ban. We'll have more in a moment.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Breaking news this hour. As TikTok, in a new statement, says its platform will go dark on Sunday unless they hear something else from the White House immediately.

CNN's Brian Stelter is here with the latest.

And Brian, I just want to read this statement we just got from TikTok, tonight. Because there were a lot of questions, what does this look like on Sunday, in those 12 hours before Trump takes office.

And they said, quote, "Unless the Biden Administration immediately provides a definitive statement to satisfy the most critical service providers assuring non-enforcement, unfortunately TikTok will be forced to go dark on January 19."

I know you've been talking to some people at the White House, Brian. What are they saying about this statement?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. Yes, and the response from the Biden administration, speaking -- sources, speaking on background, is that they think they've already been clear enough about this, that they're not going to punish TikTok on Sunday. They're not going to enforce the law. They're going to punt this to the Trump administration.

So now, there is a little bit of a standoff shaping up between TikTok and the Biden administration, as honestly, Kaitlan, these White House aides, they're getting ready to leave, you know? They're getting ready to finish out their term and go look for new jobs.

I just spoke with one official, who said, We believe the statement earlier today was sufficiently clear.

The statement earlier today said, The Biden administration is not going to intervene. In other words, companies like Apple and Google are not going to be charged, they're not going to be fined if the TikTok app remains in their app stores on Sunday.

Of course, on Monday and Tuesday, it will be up to President Trump, it will be up to Trump's DOJ, whether to enforce the law or not.

But the Biden administration's saying, We're not enforcing this law.

TikTok, though, is afflicting maximum pressure right now. They want the Biden administration to go further, maybe with a legal letter of some sort.

The official I spoke with did not rule out further action between now and Sunday. But at least for now, the position of the Biden administration is, We've told you, we're not going to enforce this law, so don't worry. Don't, sweat it this weekend.

But I think, Kaitlan, what's going on here is TikTok is trying to apply pressure, in order to advance their agenda. The agenda is to keep TikTok alive in the U.S., to make users really worried about the future of the app. And so far, TikTok is winning right now.

COLLINS: Brian Stelter, we'll see what happens. Thank you so much for that report.

STELTER: Yes.

COLLINS: And joining me here, at the table, is one of the senators, who pushed for the law that could ban TikTok unless it's sold.

Connecticut senator, Richard Blumenthal, thank you for being here.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Thank you.

COLLINS: On this statement from TikTok, is there a responsibility, on the Biden White House, to say something more than just an official, telling reporters on background, We're not going to enforce this in those 12 hours?

[21:35:00]

BLUMENTHAL: I feel pretty confident, Kaitlan, that the Biden White House has communicated not only with TikTok, but also with Google, Apple, Oracle. They are the critical deciders here, because it's their platforms that would make TikTok go dark. And if they are assured there aren't going to be fines or penalties, they'll continue during this interregnum, to provide the service.

But here is what's really going on here, and Brian put it very well. TikTok is trying to put maximum pressure on Biden, but even more so on Trump. And it's this game of chicken that has got us to this situation.

If they took seriously, the deadlines that we gave them, in our legislation, passed overwhelmingly, bipartisan, so they could sell TikTok to another entity or individual, we would not be in this dilemma. And the point is that they have to understand that whether it's Trump or Biden, they are going to have a deadline to effectuate this sale.

COLLINS: But is Congress taking the deadline seriously? Because you did give them this date. An overwhelming amount of lawmakers, Republican and Democrat, voted for January 19th. And your own colleagues are asking for an extension to this, including the top Democrat in the Senate, Chuck Schumer.

BLUMENTHAL: And the reason is that selling TikTok, ByteDance selling TikTok, ByteDance is obviously a Chinese-owned entity, controlled, harvesting a lot of information, sensitive personal information, about Americans, spreading disinformation. It's a national security threat. The United States Supreme Court recognized that fact, as did the Congress.

So we're willing to give them an extension to sell it. We don't want to eliminate it. But my colleagues and I feel that the legislation, which has a provision for an extension, if necessary, has to be implemented, and enforcement of it can be delayed.

COLLINS: Does the legislation include a waiver for President Trump here, when he is President Trump on Monday? Because, I mean, he said today, he still -- he hasn't made a decision on what to do, and says he'll come out with that soon.

BLUMENTHAL: Interestingly, what has been lost in some of the back and forth here is that Donald Trump actually filed a brief, arguing that the Supreme Court should delay enforcement.

COLLINS: Yes.

BLUMENTHAL: He asked for a stay, so that he could, quote-unquote, Save TikTok, by making a deal. So, I think Donald Trump will seek to be the dealmaker here. And he has plenty of Big Tech friends and billionaires, who can come to TikTok's rescue.

COLLINS: Just on this, what do you say to people, who say Congress is being really hypocritical, right now? I mean, they framed this. You and your colleagues framed this, as this threat facing America. I mean, you likened it to a gun being pointed at American, a weapon pointed at Americans, I should say.

Lawmakers grilled Shou Chew, the CEO, when he was on Capitol Hill. And now, everyone's saying, Well, let's give them a little bit more time. I mean, Americans might look at that and say, OK, that's a little hypocritical.

BLUMENTHAL: Let's be very clear-eyed. TikTok has 170 million (ph) Americans, who like it or love it. And as a platform, owned by someone else, it would be fine.

The fact is that the Chinese Communist Party is using it, as part of its espionage and surveillance. And frankly, I don't need to really go into classified information. But we receive classified briefings about how TikTok is used by the Chinese, to harvest information about-- COLLINS: Yes.

BLUMENTHAL: --those 170 million Americans.

COLLINS: Let me ask you, because also on Capitol Hill today, being grilled by some people, was Kristi Noem, Trump's pick to run the Department of Homeland Security.

You were questioning her on things like, trying to condition aid to wildfire victims, as we're seeing some Republicans demand. She said they would not do that, which is notable.

But when you were listening to her questions, about family separation policy and whatnot, are you going to vote yes on her? What's your stance on that, tonight?

BLUMENTHAL: I have yet to be convinced that she would stand up to President Trump, if he asks her. And it's not if. It's when he asks her to do something illegal or immoral, such as the family separation policy, which took kids away from their parents, and a 1,000 of those kids have yet to be reunited with their parents.

And on the disaster relief. Trump, then-President Trump, in his first term, refused to provide disaster assistance to the State of Washington, because he was having a spat with Governor Inslee.

Well, the State of Connecticut, states in the South that had hurricanes, we had flooding, need that assistance. And to inject politics is absolutely abhorrent.

[21:40:00]

But I, right now, have to oppose her, because she has failed to say she would say no, to President Trump.

COLLINS: Senator Blumenthal, thank you for joining us. Great to have you here on set tonight.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

COLLINS: Really appreciate it.

And of course, Senator Blumenthal, I should note, is about to get a new colleague in the Senate. We're going to hear, in a few moments, just from the man, who has been chosen to fill Vice President-elect JD Vance's open Senate seat, now that he will be in the White House. His first national TV interview here, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:45:00]

COLLINS: Ohio's Republican governor just filled the seat that was vacated by now-Vice President-elect JD Vance. With Governor Mike DeWine picking his Lieutenant Governor, Jon Husted, to take his place. It was Husted, who delivered Vance's nominating speech, actually, at the Republican Convention, if you'll recall from last summer.

And he joins me now for his first prime time national TV interview since being named to the Senate, just about 12 hours ago or so.

So, Lieutenant Governor, thank you for being here.

It was long rumored that you might get this role, you might be tapped for this, or a lot of names in the mix. When do you head to Washington?

LT. GOV. JON HUSTED, (R) OHIO: So, my wife, and kids, and I, are going to get on a plane, tomorrow morning, and off we go. We were planning on a nice, relaxing weekend at the inauguration. But now, things have changed. We're going to be looking for an office and a staff, and get things going, as we prepare to serve Ohio in the U.S. Senate.

COLLINS: Yes, and of course, right as an Arctic chill is hitting hitting Washington, as I'm sure you've seen.

And I know that you and Governor DeWine both spoke to the President- elect, earlier today. He had suggested recently that maybe Vivek Ramaswamy, he thought could be a good pick for the seat. What did he have to say to you earlier?

HUSTED: Oh, the President and I had a great conversation. He's excited. I'm excited. I'm going to be a good ally for him in the U.S. Senate.

And remember whose seat I'm taking. It's JD Vance. That's how this opening occurred. JD has been a friend for a while, and I'm look forward to working with them, and just getting, starting -- starting the American -- the America First agenda, and learning the ropes in Washington.

COLLINS: Did Vice President-elect Vance have any advice for you, on how to navigate the Senate? Of course, it'll be basically two brand- new senators from representing Ohio over there.

HUSTED: Yes, well, mostly I talked to him about staff. Hey, do you have any staff that can help me out?

I know we've got a -- he -- we've -- you know, we have case work that's going on in Ohio that his office is handling, and so we've got to do that transition, just to serve people in the State of Ohio. But I've had a good, long relationship with Vice President-elect Vance, and he'll be a big help.

COLLINS: And, of course, speaking of staffing. I mean, you're going to have to get right to work, in addition to building out your staff. And I know you were quoted as saying that you do plan to vote to confirm all of the President-elect's Cabinet nominees.

Do you think you'll be meeting with those candidates before, before making that decision? I know some -- you might miss some of those votes. But do you plan to actually sit down with any of these Cabinet nominees, one-on-one? HUSTED: As a matter of timing, I would love to be able to do that. I had an outreach from Pete Hegseth's team today, and I haven't had a chance to even return those phone calls. But I've tried to pay attention to the hearings, read up on them as best I can, from afar. But I've been impressed with what I've seen so far.

COLLINS: OK. So, you do plan to vote yes for all of them so far? Or do you think you'll make that decision as you are caught up to speed on them?

HUSTED: Yes, look, I think President Trump deserves to have the team he wants on the field. And I haven't seen anything that would make me vote against any of them.

COLLINS: OK. And being from Ohio, you've got a lot of farmers there, obviously. And the President-elect has made clear, from what I've heard in my reporting, that tariffs are going to be a huge part of his agenda, this term, that he is very serious when he talks about that publicly. He spent billions of dollars to help farmers, when he was in office the last time, who felt the impact of that trade war.

And given that we could likely see him doing that again, this time, as a senator, how do you plan to approach that, in terms of fulfilling Trump's agenda, but also protecting farmers back in Ohio?

HUSTED: Well, President Trump's a great negotiator, and he wants to have tariffs as a tool, and I think he should.

But I think it's my job to make sure that whether it's the steel industry, the agricultural industry, whatever it might be, to make sure that I understand how that impacts the people of the State of Ohio, and then communicate that to the administration. I think that's the constructive way to do it.

COLLINS: And you'll be serving in this seat through 2026. That's when a special election will be held, for the final two years of it. I know you have been thinking about running for Governor in Ohio, because Governor DeWine is term-limited. But do you now plan, given this, to stay in this seat, and run for that instead?

HUSTED: Yes, I wouldn't have taken the appointment if I didn't intend to run to keep the seat. It's an important seat for the Senate majority, and Ohio is an important state. And I have won four statewide elections here, and I plan to win a fifth and a sixth, over the next two election cycles.

COLLINS: Do you think Vivek Ramaswamy would make a good candidate for governor?

[21:50:00]

HUSTED: Vivek's a friend. He's very talented. And I look forward to hearing what he's going to do in the future. And he's, you know -- I'm going to work with him on DOGE though. We need -- we got to get that finished with Elon Musk and Vivek. We got to make sure that we take all the spending that we can out of government and reform it. I think that's what people want us to do. And I look forward to being a good partner with them.

COLLINS: Did Trump say anything to you, during you all's call, about whether or not he'd support you, when you do run again, given there could be a Republican primary, we don't know what that field will look like, at this moment?

HUSTED: Yes, look, President Trump was a little busy, when I talked with him, this morning. He was very supportive and encouraging. I think you'll have something to say about this soon. But I won't speak for him. I'll let him share those thoughts, when it's time for him to do so.

COLLINS: Last question, sir, maybe the most important one for you. On Monday night, obviously, there's a huge event happening that day, in the college football national championship. It is Ohio State versus Notre Dame. What's your prediction for the outcome of that game?

HUSTED: The Buckeyes, of course, yes, this is -- this has been a big distraction. I mean, poor JD Vance, he becomes Vice President, and then he has to miss the National Championship game. He's an Ohio State graduate.

But I'm excited for the Buckeyes. They've really rallied through adversity, and I'm hoping they're going to get a great win on Monday.

COLLINS: Yes, well, I'm an Alabama fan, so I will just stay out of it altogether.

Soon-to-be senator, Jon Husted, thank you for joining us for your first TV interview tonight.

HUSTED: Great. Thank you.

COLLINS: Up next. Six months after dismissing President-elect Trump's classified documents case, we're hearing from that same judge, who is now deciding whether Congress should get to see what Special Counsel, Jack Smith, found and put into a report. Our legal source is here, next.

[21:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, the judge, who dismissed President-elect Trump's classified documents case, appears inclined to keep the Special Counsel's report about that investigation out of the hands of Congress.

There was a hearing today, in her courtroom, in Florida. That's where Judge Aileen Cannon, who you see here, pressed prosecutors from the Justice Department, on why they wanted to hand the report over to lawmakers. And she said, at one point, quote, "At the end of the day, what's the urgency of doing this right now?"

Of course, that answer is pretty clear, certainly to those prosecutors, because come Monday, at noon, that report will then be in the hands of the Trump Justice Department.

I want to bring in my legal source, Elie Honig.

I mean, Elie, that question seems so obvious--

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes.

COLLINS: --that they're obviously -- because the belief is that if it's the Trump DOJ, they just won't release this report.

HONIG: She was trying to make them say it, right? She wanted to say, Well, what's the rush Garland administration, right? Why are you in such rush? The obvious answer is just that, because on Monday, at noon, this thing will never see the light of day.

But it's important to know, DOJ is right here. The Garland -- Garland's DOJ, Biden's DOJ, they are correct. It is up to the Attorney General, what to do with that report, whether to disseminate it at all. And in fact, they had already said, We don't even need to put it out publicly. We're just going to show it, behind closed doors, to members of Congress.

But all Trump's team is trying to do, this will sound familiar, is delay. They know, once they get to 12:01, on Monday, Pam Bondi, or whoever is in charge at that moment, will make sure that that report never sees the light of day.

COLLINS: Some people might look at this, and say, Well, why do they care? Because the other part of this report came out. It wasn't that explosive. I mean, it would have been, if we had known it. But we knew a lot of it.

The classified documents, would it be different, you think?

HONIG: I think it would. So, there's a couple things that I think are really intriguing. We've gotten a couple clues. I'm going to intrigue you now with things that we might see if we ever see this report. I don't know if we will.

Number one, Jack Smith has said in court, I will be able to prove the reason why Donald Trump took those classified documents, and what he planned to do with them.

We've never really learned the answer to that.

The other thing that I find really interesting that is somewhere in that report that we may never see is Trump's team has said, one of the reasons they don't want it out is, because there's information about people who might become members of the administration.

Now, we know, for example, Kash Patel testified in the grand jury. So, there could be information in that report that relates to people who are being -- who are coming up for advice and consent, with the Senate, right now.

So, I think there's more interesting stuff in the classified documents report.

COLLINS: That's a really good point on that latter half, because they interviewed basically everyone who's around Trump, in this time period. That's Trump's campaign team that was around him.

HONIG: Yes, and so this could be one of the reasons why they're fighting so hard to keep it from coming out.

And again, though, they're going to win despite losing, right? I mean, Judge Cannon is not going to even have to rule on this case. We knew it was over when she said on Monday, I think it was, OK, come back in for arguments on Friday, which is today.

At that point, he said, There's no way we'll get a ruling by the time Trump is sworn-in.

COLLINS: Right.

HONIG: So, that's really the whole ballgame there.

COLLINS: So what happens? What's the next step here? I mean, if you're the DOJ--

HONIG: Yes.

COLLINS: --how are you handling this?

HONIG: I don't think there's much more they can do, right? They made their argument today. They know that they're going to -- that they're going to come up, you know, it's going to be a changing of the guard, on Monday.

But here's an interesting question, though. We know what's going to happen on Monday, right? Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira will either be pardoned, and/or the new DOJ will dismiss the case.

Now, once that happens, that'll take out the rationale that the current DOJ had given, for why they don't want to turn it over to the public. Because they said, Well, we have live defendants. We can't turn it over. But once they're out of the case, that rationale goes away.

But again, it's a Catch-22 because--

COLLINS: That's still up to the--

HONIG: --now you got--

COLLINS: --same DOJ, I mean.

HONIG: You got it.

COLLINS: I do have a hard time where anyone could see, anyone that Trump brings on, saying, Yes, we are going to release it. And also--

HONIG: No way. COLLINS: --half the people, who are his attorneys, right now, are the ones who are going into the DOJ.

HONIG: Todd Blanche is about to become the number two person in all of DOJ.

COLLINS: Well it's like six of them who are going in.

HONIG: Right. Todd Blanche and--

COLLINS: Yes.

[22:00:00]

HONIG: --the Solicitor General will be Sauer. I mean, it's, they're all just going to move right over from Trump's defense table to the higher echelons of DOJ.

COLLINS: Yes. And it does raise a lot of questions, what does Judge Aileen Cannon's future look like? She obviously has certainly gotten on Trump's good list.

HONIG: Yes, I think she's on the happy list for him.

COLLINS: Elie Honig, thanks for always intriguing us, as you did, tonight, in this evening.

Thank you all so much for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.