Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Ends All Jan. 6 Cases With Pardons, Commutations & Dismissals; Trump Signs Sweeping Executive Actions On Immigration; Trump And First Lady Leave WH For Inaugural Balls. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 20, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): --the moment. But no. It's about how he has been mistreated, and he will get even. That's not how we run a government and make it work. This is not about personal vengeance.
We run a government to make it work for people. That's how it's supposed to be in a democracy.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you for your time.
WARREN: Thank you.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
It is 09:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The new President is now in celebration mode, and so are many of the people who attacked the Capitol, or tried to overturn the election, four years ago. They're getting out of prison, including some serving very long sentences after the President pardoned or commuted the sentences, tonight.
He is attending three inaugural balls, this evening, after signing all those executive orders, as you see there.
Kaitlan.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, I'm at one of the balls that we expect President Trump to come to. He's still at the White House, right now, as his day has been a little bit delayed.
Obviously, he was in the Oval Office for much longer than people anticipated, signing those executive orders, either rescinding actions that President Biden took, or taking actions of his own, like withdrawing from the World Health Organization, the Paris Climate Accords, in addition to the January 6 pardons, ones related to immigration.
He's also attempting to get rid of the birthright citizenship, which is guaranteed, as we know, by the 14th Amendment. Everyone has said that's going to face a lot of legal challenges.
But Anderson, based on our reporting, that's exactly the point that the White House team wants to essentially pursue here, because they believe if they face enough legal challenges, and get this in front of the Supreme Court, that they can potentially be successful there.
So, they have been thinking through all of these executive orders for months now. What you saw President Trump signing there, in the Oval Office.
And if you notice the person, who is handing him all of those executive orders, that is the staff secretary who goes into the White House, of course, handles all the paper movement, going in and out of the Oval Office, the flow of that.
It's normally not a very household recognizable name for that position. But it was the last time Trump was in office, because there was always such a question among senior staff over how certain executive orders got on his desk. And some of the aides later acknowledged they would find executive orders on his desk, and remove them from there, because they did not want him to sign them. It was never just a pretty formalized process, like in other white houses.
And that was Will Scharf, who was formerly the Attorney General of Missouri, but also Donald Trump's attorney, who represented him and argued before the Supreme Court on several cases.
He is now one of several personal attorneys that Trump is bringing into his administration, that was standing there with him, as he was taking all these questions, signing all of these executive orders, and really, reprising a role that we so often saw Trump occupy, the first time he was in the White House, which is those extended Q&A sessions.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live at the White House.
And Jeff, obviously, we saw the biggest pardons. That seemed to be that Trump was so eager to sign the January 6 pardons.
And even when he was asked about pardoning people, who are committed of offenses, related to assault on law enforcement, on cops, he was arguing that he doesn't essentially believe that the D.C. justice system is fair, that anyone who goes before a court gets convicted.
Obviously, a lot of these people who went to court were convicted by evidence, or either pled guilty to this.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Without question. And when you actually get down to the fact of a mass pardon, and shine a light on what is actually the consequences of that. It is much different than just saying at a rally, as he's been doing for the last couple of years, that I'm going to pardon the January 6th hostages.
We have said endless times, they are not hostages.
But Kaitlan, I am struck by from being on Capitol Hill, this morning, to being at a rally this afternoon, with Trump supporters, and hearing all of them talk about their support for law enforcement, watching the new president, watch color guards from police forces, and pledge their loyalty to them. The actions here tonight stand in stark contrast to that.
But it's the mass pardon, I think, and the commutation of those 14 sentences, that is much more extreme than some people actually thought he would do. Some supporters of his thought he would stop sort of well short of doing that.
But the hours after he got the power to do this, he said what he would long do, and he, in fact, did it. So, certainly the consequences and the fallout from this will be interesting, on both sides of the aisle, not just from Democrats.
COLLINS: Yes, I think it was JD Vance, even just a matter of days ago, saying that the line would be drawn for assault on law enforcement. We'll see, of course, what he says about this now.
Thank you, Jeff Zeleny.
I want to get more on the legal details of the pardons, and also those 14 commutations that were included in here.
CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent, Paula Reid, joins me now.
[21:05:00]
Paula, when we look at the scope of these pardons. I mean, out of everything we've gotten today, from President Trump, with the January 6 pardons, and then President Biden, I think, pardoning more members of a family -- of his family than any other president has done before. I mean, this entire game here, of pardons and commutations, from the Oval Office, has changed.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a Pardon- palooza, Kaitlan.
Let's start with the pardons from now former President Biden. That was a shock to many. In fact, when I reached out to the Trump legal team, they didn't think I was actually serious, that Biden had actually pardoned his entire family.
Now, we had previously reported, they were contemplating pardoning folks who investigated January 6, Dr. Fauci, folks who Trump had signaled he might want to investigate.
But by pardoning his family, I mean, that really is a surprise. Folks talk a lot about the precedent that this potentially sets. But I'll note, you don't really need a precedent to pardon anyone in your family or otherwise. Presidential pardon power is absolute. It can't be challenged in court. And that's also what we saw President Biden doing here, using an expansive use of his clemency powers.
We've been asking for two months now, his legal advisers, how broad will this clemency for January 6th be? And even though Vice President Vance, President Biden (ph), they had said that they wanted to make some exceptions, for people who were, quote, out of control or violent. Today, this was much more broad than even I anticipated. Here, he's issuing over 1,200 pardons, which include some violent offenders who assaulted police officers.
And even those 14 commutations, they are going to be reviewed. There could be more pardons to come. They just wanted to put a little bit of process in place, to review those cases, even though they didn't want to go case by case by case. The rest of the cases will be dismissed.
So, this will go down in the history books. This will be studied by pardon experts, because both the former President and the current President using a very expansive definition of clemency. But again, they can do this. This power is absolute. There are no known limits, really, on the presidential pardon power.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a really good point, Paula, that there could be more to come.
And Anderson, I think it's important to note that as Trump is viewing these, through the lens of these January 6 rioters, he's viewing it through the lens of his own legal troubles. And that is really what has inspired a lot of the way he views this, is that he thinks he was treated unfairly by the justice system with his indictments.
So, he argues that so were the people who are convicted, even though there's video evidence, and you can see them themselves. And in a lot of the cases, they pleaded guilty here in these cases. But a lot of it has to do with how Trump himself has been treated by the justice system.
COOPER: Yes. We should also point out, he is lying about outside agitators, indicating Antifa, or others, who his supporters have IDed, or claimed were involved. No evidence of that whatsoever, also, indicating the FBI was behind it, or deeply involved.
Kaitlan, we'll come back to you.
Back with the panel here.
COOPER: Joining us also is CNN Legal Analyst, and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams. He served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Obama administration.
Elliot, were you surprised by the scope, scale of the pardons?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER DEPUTY ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I was not.
And let's go back to exactly what Paula had said. The pardon power is absolute, as laid out in the Constitution. It's one -- it's probably, I think, the only power given to any of the branches of government, the courts, Congress or the President, that has so few limits on it.
And given the fact that President, now President Trump said quite clearly, or at least teased, that he was planning on pardoning any number of these individuals, it should not come as a surprise that he took advantage of basically the freebie that the Constitution gives Presidents of the United States. So no, I'm not surprised.
COOPER: Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASST. TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, COLUMNIST, LA TIMES, DAILY MAIL & GANNETT: Well, watching Donald Trump's day today, I'm just struck by the fact that we have a president again. I mean, look at this guy's day. Three speeches, a 196 executive actions, holds a 90-minute press conference, narrating each one as he goes along.
I mean, Joe Biden could not and would not offer the kind of transparency or vigor to the American people that we got here on day one from Trump.
And tonight, Trump's going to throw on a tux and go to three balls. I mean, he's having an active day. I think it's going to be a massive amount of contrast here, for a presidency, like what we're going to see out of Trump and versus what we've had out of Biden.
Was watching Trump today, and Van and I were talking earlier today, watching him walk down the hall of the Capitol. And the words that came to mind to me were gritty, resilient, determined and audacious. There's not like a more perfect advertisement for the value of these qualities in modern America.
I mean, you think about all the things that happened to him, winning, losing, the court cases, nearly being assassinated. It's rather audacious, what he has accomplished, winning this election and taking office today.
And you said you were in shock. Well Republicans are in awe.
COOPER: What about the -- with the pardons? What's your take on that?
[21:10:00]
JENNINGS: Here's what I think. Were these people punished? Yes. Were they ruined financially? Yes. Did they spend time in jail? Yes. Have their lives been ruined? Absolutely.
And one of you said earlier, Van or Axe, that you think this sends a terrible signal that you can get away with things like this.
As though we've never had a moment, in recent American history, when people were not punished for rampaging around, when they shouldn't have been. It was the summer of 2020.
And these people were actually punished.
VAN JONES, FORMER SPECIAL ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a little bit different than you did.
JENNINGS: Those people were never even charged.
JONES: A, that's not true at all. But it's not--
JENNINGS: That's not true. JONES: Actually--
JENNINGS: Most charges were not--
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Well, let him answer.
JONES: But I do see it differently, in that I don't like it when people tear up buildings at all. I'm not a part of some pro-riot pro- crime lobby.
But I really don't like when people attack police officers. I really don't like it at all. I'm the son of a police officer. My uncle's a police officer. I don't like it at all. If you attack a police officer, before you get any leading answer, before you get any support from this society, you should apologize. And they didn't. And that's wrong.
And you, yourself and others said you would have a problem if the violent ones were let go.
JENNINGS: Yes, I can see it. I agree.
JONES: And that's my problem tonight.
JENNINGS: I agree. I don't -- I don't like the idea, specifically, the people that attacked police. I'm in agreement with you on that.
JONES: Listen--
JENNINGS: But I do think it is important to note that these people, whatever they did, whether it was just accidentally walking in, or doing something much, much worse -- Elliot, you can correct me if I'm wrong -- most of them, if not all of them, did get punished, served some kind of time. And my assumption is virtually all them have had their lives effectively ruined by these arrests.
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought there were hundreds of them, who have not actually been tried yet.
WILLIAMS: Several hundreds.
AXELROD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I think it's around 300--
AXELROD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: --who haven't gone to trial yet.
AXELROD: I don't know, Scott, we sat here together after January 6th, and you were eloquent about how you felt about what you saw. And I felt the same way. And again, I go back to the point I went -- I made before. I think there were people there, who were bent on violence. There were people there, who belonged to white nationalist organizations. Leaders of them were among those, who's had their sentences commuted or they were pardoned, tonight. We'll see when all the smoke clears, how they're classified.
But that wasn't just -- I think, assaulting police officers was an egregious affront.
JONES: Yes, vitriol (ph).
AXELROD: But assaulting the process of certifying a free and fair election was also an an egregious affront. Rampaging through a building that you and I both revere was an egregious affront.
And so, for the President to call them hostages, and to essentially blanket excuse their behavior is part and parcel of the original sin, which was his assertion, without evidence, that he continues to this day, to say that that election was stolen from him. They were actually acting on his -- on his representations. So, I think the whole thing.
I agree, he was energetic today. He projected the message he wanted to, on a whole range of issues. He showed his stamina. You're going to have to stop living off of Joe Biden after a while here. But all of that is true.
But this, there's a reason why they waited, until the end of the day, after the news, the evening news and so on. He didn't do it in front of the crowd at the -- at the arena. He went back to the White House, later in the evening, so it wouldn't dominate the coverage all day long. They knew. He didn't mention it in his inaugural speech.
57 percent of Americans said they disapprove of this when they were asked by The Wall Street Journal. 50 of them strongly disapproved. So, I'll give him credit for political courage, I guess, because he did something that was deeply unpopular here, by paroling these people.
But there's really no way to justify that. And the fact that he showed a lot of stamina today doesn't really do the trick.
COOPER: I want to hear from Erin. We haven't heard from Erin. What do you think?
ERIN PERRINE, FMR. DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, NEVER BACK DOWN PAC: I think, if you're part of the Trump team that's now in the White House today, that shock and awe, this big delivery today, of all the executive actions, but J6 especially, those pardons, this is exactly what Donald Trump said they were going to do. That is going to be the Trump team's stance, coming out of today.
They're going to be like, You wanted us to come in and get out of the Paris Climate Accord. He has been talking about the J6 detainees, hostages, whatever language he has been using about them, the entire time. He used this on the campaign trail. And so today, he walked in the White House and he did exactly what he said he was going to do.
[21:15:00]
So, if you're the Trump team, yes, I do think they're going to have a hard time coming out of this, especially with those who assaulted police officers or committed violent crimes. That's going to be very tough for them to try and say, Hey, listen, we just went for it.
I think this is the hard part for them. But right now, their messaging is going to be, We did exactly what we said we would do, day one.
COOPER: Let's go back to Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, thanks, Anderson.
I want to bring in former January 6 committee member, and a recipient of one of President Biden's preemptive pardons today. Democratic congressman, Jamie Raskin.
Congressman, first, let me just get your reaction tonight to what we saw happening in the Oval Office, with President Trump taking one of his first steps, to pardon everyone, who was convicted of a crime related to January 6, with the exception of 14 people that he made clear are still on the table.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, why were they being pardoned? That's my question. In other words, were they innocent? Nobody is asserting that. Were they denied due process? No one is asserting that.
So, are they reformed and rehabilitated and no longer a threat to democracy, no longer a threat to society? Or are they being pardoned simply because they were the willing political foot soldiers for Donald Trump when he incited an insurrection against the government?
So, I think the polls are showing 60 or 62 percent of the people reject the pardons of people who engaged in violence against police officers and stormed the Capitol, and tried to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power, and succeeded in blockading the peaceful transfer of power for many hours.
And I think there's a lot of explaining to do about this. It is something they try to sneak in at the end of the day. But it is certainly the huge news of the day, as he basically pardoned the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, and other people, who participated in violence, against our constitutional order and against our cops.
COLLINS: And we started this day with the outgoing President using his pardon authority to pardon people like you, members of the January 6 congressional committee.
Did you know that pardon was coming? And will you accept that pardon? Do you have a choice to accept that pardon, or is it just -- how does that work?
RASKIN: So, that's a good question. I need to speak to a lawyer. I think all of us need to talk to a lawyer about whether you actually need to accept it or not. It's not clear to me.
I tried to research some cases today. A few of the cases seem to say that a pardon is like an executive order or a legislative enactment. It's just the law, and it doesn't require or admit of acceptance or rejection. Others seem to say that the person does have to act on it. And so, I will definitely get some legal counsel from any people who have experience with pardons out there.
But look, the people who were pardoned, the morning, were pardoned because we were innocent, and Donald Trump was threatening Liz Cheney, and Bennie Thompson, and others, with fraudulent political prosecutions.
The people, who were just pardoned a little while ago were pardoned because they were guilty of violently assaulting police officers, carrying dangerous weapons inside the Capitol, destroying federal property, and so on. And it was just a mass pardon for all of them, without even looking to see whether those people were rehabilitated, and whether they continue to pose a threat to public safety.
COLLINS: You previously said on CNN, the quote, The seeking of Pardons is powerful demonstration of the consciousness of guilt, or at least the consciousness that you may be in trouble, and that's what's so shocking about this.
Do you feel conflicted about the fact that President Biden did extend this pardon to you? I mean, he has faced criticism from other members of that committee who said, I don't want a pardon.
RASKIN: No, we didn't seek a pardon. Obviously, the President decided that there have been all of these threats of completely political prosecutions and persecution by the Trump administration. And so there were officers who got it, Dr. Fauci got it, General Milley got it.
And there are some other people I wish had gotten it. I wish Michael Cohen had gotten it. And there were other people, who I think are being threatened by the new administration.
But that's a completely different thing, from taking a mob of people, who were convicted for violently assaulting police officers, and then pardoning them en masse.
COLLINS: Who else do you think that he should have pardoned?
[21:20:00]
RASKIN: Well, for example, Lev Parnas is another person who was in Trump world, who decided to come forward to tell the truth, just like Michael Cohen came forward to tell the truth, which is why Donald Trump was convicted on multiple felony counts in New York, because of the testimony of Michael Cohen. And he's someone who could be threatened with retaliation, by the Trump Justice Department. They certainly did it to him before.
So, there's other people in that category. And we'll just have to see that people are protected against fraudulent political prosecutions, by the new attorney general, and by the new FBI director, both of whom are election deniers and also January 6 deniers.
So, the real statement of this mass pardon that Donald Trump just gave is that January 6 lives. And until Donald Trump states his apology, and his regret, for having incited an insurrection against our Constitution, then all of it continues to be a danger to us.
Remember that he was impeached, and there was a vote in the Senate by robust bicameral bipartisan majorities that he engaged in incitement of insurrection against his own government.
COLLINS: Yes. And then, of course, he was acquitted by the Senate, as we all saw play out.
Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you for joining us on this breaking news tonight.
COOPER: Yes.
COLLINS: Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Kaitlan, thank you.
Circling back to what Senator Elizabeth Warren said, earlier here, about the billionaire-heavy nature (ph) of the people at the inauguration close to the President today.
I'm joined now by longtime tech journalist and co-host of the "Pivot" podcast, Kara Swisher, who's interviewed many of the tech leaders, we saw at the inauguration, in the Capitol Rotunda, today, going back years.
Seeing them all there.
KARA SWISHER, AUTHOR, "BURN BOOK: A TECH LOVE STORY," CO-HOST, "PIVOT" PODCAST, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
COOPER: So prominently displayed by Trump.
SWISHER: Displayed.
COOPER: I mean, there was -- I was questioning, like, I was pretty sure he was going to display them prominently. I didn't think -- no one was going to be that prominent.
SWISHER: Well, I think he does everything for television. And so, that was the messaging is, I control the richest people in the world. That was a trillion dollars in value there.
COOPER: They also -- I mean, you look at those people, they control the flow of information--
SWISHER: They do.
COOPER: --not just in the United States. But globally.
SWISHER: That's correct. COOPER: And there was a, I don't -- I keep blanking out his name, but like, the top tech India, a guy in India, was there as well.
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: I mean, the amount of power in that grouping, and all of them see, like, clearly wanting to make deals.
SWISHER: That's correct. That's what they're there for.
I mean, before in 2016, if you remember, they went to Trump Tower. I broke that story, so I remember it really well. But they all went there, despite the fact that several of them were immigrants, that they -- that Trump had been so negative about, the Muslim ban and things like that. And they had gone there to, in order to get tax repatriation, and all kinds of lack of -- lack of regulation, really, at the time, because there is no regulation to speak of.
COOPER: There's an argument that the Biden administration drove them away from the Democrats. True?
SWISHER: I would say in part, yes, yes, absolutely. I think they were too tough on crypto, probably -- certain parts of crypto. Certain parts of crypto needed to be regulated. I think driving Elon away was that summit that happened. And he called me, at that time.
COOPER: Being not invited to that summit.
SWISHER: He was not invited to an EV summit, and he was -- and Biden was praising Mary Barra, who deserves credit for a lot of different innovations.
COOPER: Oh, the CEO of Chrysler?
SWISHER: CEO of GM.
And he was angry about it.
And I remember calling someone at the White House and saying, in fact, it was Steve Ricchetti, and said, You made a big mistake here, because he got very angry about that.
And it was one of the many things. But I think there was a number of things. And it was mostly the top people. I wouldn't say, it was a -- there's a myth that Silicon Valley was liberal. It's just not. They're like libertarian-light maybe, but conservative, the most part, and mostly interested in shareholder value, and making money for themselves.
COOPER: Which already Elon Musk -- I mean, Elon Musk has already made for his investment, as Scott Galloway was pointing out.
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: As you guys have talked about this. For his investment of some $200 million, whatever, in the Trump campaign. SWISHER: He's doubled his -- he's made $250 billion already.
And what's interesting about Elon, I was thinking this today, when Trump was making the comment about going to Mars. That's all Elon wants. And I did one of the first interviews, where he said, I want to die on Mars, just not on landing, which was funny at the time. But he wants to get to Mars. And this is his motivation. I don't think money is his motivation. Most of all, he really does want to get himself and humanity to Mars.
COOPER: How much is there, the battle between of Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, over space?
SWISHER: There isn't.
COOPER: I mean, for Bezos space was -- is incredibly important. Blue Origin--
SWISHER: They were very clubby today, but there's a lot of acrimony between them over the years.
COOPER: Do you think a lot of them saw Elon Musk? He sent out that X, or tweet, or whatever it's called now, the day of the assassination attempt, right after that. Do you think a lot of them realized they were late to the game?
SWISHER: Absolutely.
COOPER: They're suddenly now making deals--
SWISHER: I mean, I think that's what they're like on everything.
COOPER: --on like--
SWISHER: Like, one person makes a dating service, 10 of them do. They're -- at the time, when they were following Trump, I called them sheeple. And they really are. They're cheap people. They go to where it is. And I think they all went, Oh, look at what he did for the money, and now I'm going to get in on this, and that's there.
COOPER: Mark -- you've been very tough on Mark Zuckerberg.
SWISHER: I have.
COOPER: Why? What's--
SWISHER: Why? Which -- where do you want to start?
COOPER: What's particularly egregious about it to you?
SWISHER: Well, I think he just shifts, and I find him to be somewhat of a weather vane, like he, you know, if I was joking that if Kamala Harris had become the president, he'd be asking us to call him, they/them. I mean, he just will do whatever it takes to improve the shareholders.
[21:25:00]
COOPER: You see him talking about bow hunting with Joe Rogan?
SWISHER: Yes, he likes to do that. The performative male thing is--
COOPER: It was -- it was painful.
SWISHER: I have three sons.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: They don't sit around talking about bow hunting.
COOPER: I don't think Joe Rogan bought it.
SWISHER: No, not at all. Not at all.
COOPER: Yes, he sort of very clearly asked that (ph).
SWISHER: Yes, I don't understand the performative, I'm eating meat, I like to grill, Let me fight.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: Whatever. I'm glad he has a hobby. I don't know what else to say.
COOPER: So, what role does -- I mean, moving forward, what do you see these -- this -- this marriage, this union?
SWISHER: Well, they're getting what they want. As long as they're getting what they want, they'll be cooperative with the President. And the President has plenty of ways to hurt them, in lots of ways, and plenty of ways to help them. And so, they want contracts. They want lack of regulations.
COOPER: It is so naked. I mean, it's such a transactional--
SWISHER: It is. Yes.
COOPER: It is so stated.
SWISHER: It's transparent.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: It's absolutely transparent. In some cases, corruption, in some cases, deal-making. There's no more backroom anymore. It's the front room, and they're sitting right there, and they were sitting right there on the stage.
COOPER: I mean, there was a meme coin release yesterday.
SWISHER: Yes. Oh. Yes.
COOPER: And Melania Trump released one. SWISHER: Yes. Yes. That, to me, is really problematic, because there's -- it's sort of the direct way, to benefit someone, the President, in that case.
And those coins, and I'm allowed to say this, apparently, on CNN, they're called shit coins, because they're not linked to any value of anything. And there's all kinds of coins like this, and it's just a really problematic situation. You don't have to buy a hotel room or do this. You can just make this coin go up and down.
COOPER: And particularly because the government can't have a role in regulating the whole--
SWISHER: That's--
COOPER: --entire industry.
SWISHER: Oh yes. That part, oh yes, that part, yes.
COOPER: Right.
SWISHER: Those parts, yes, sure, yes.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: And I think it's going to be a problem with the SEC, and all kinds of things, and who's going to regulate that.
COOPER: Yes. Kara Swisher, thank you. Appreciate it, as always.
SWISHER: Thank you.
COOPER: I want to go to Donie O'Sullivan, who's outside the detention center, where some people may be released.
Donie?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson.
Yes, in the last few minutes, all these demonstrators, the activists, supporters of the people, who are the J6ers inside the jail here, all rushed towards the main door of the jail. We're not sure quite what is happening. There are some people. Looks like there are some officials, right inside the door. So, we may be seeing some people released in the next few minutes.
I just got off the phone two or three minutes ago, with Rachel Powell, who is one of the people in the jail at the moment. She said she hadn't been told anything about being released.
But very clear -- it's unclear what is happening right now.
I will tell you that Rachel Powell, some of the--
Watch there, Andrew.
Thank you. No, thanks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
Some of the people inside this prison are hoping to make it to the inaugural balls tonight. They have been told that if they are released--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn to your right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up. Back up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That way.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, OK.
We're going to move down here, Anderson. We're going to move out of their way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That way. That way.
O'SULLIVAN: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around. Don't fall.
O'SULLIVAN: So, unclear -- unclear why there was such a rush to the -- to the doors of the jail, right there. But there does seem there is something happening.
COOPER: So, Donie, let me ask you. So there--
O'SULLIVAN: There are people -- some people--
COOPER: You've heard some--
O'SULLIVAN: --right inside the main door.
COOPER: Donie, you've heard some of the people, who may be released, want to attend an inaugural ball tonight?
O'SULLIVAN: That is correct. So we just got -- I got off the phone just five minutes ago, again, from Rachel Powell, who is calling us from inside the jail. She told us that she has been in touch with people who, I believe the Liberty Ball. And you can correct me, but the Liberty Ball, I think, is happening at the Convention Center. I believe Trump is speaking there tonight.
She has been told that if she gets out, and she expects to be left out in sweats, in a gray track suit, is what she said, was what they give people as they are released here, that she intends on going directly to the Liberty Ball.
COOPER: And what is she in for?
O'SULLIVAN: So, a woman who has been in federal-- COOPER: She's the one who had the pickaxe?
O'SULLIVAN: So, right -- that's correct, yes. So, Rachel was charged on multiple counts. One of course, was -- we have video, and colleagues in the controller room might be able to pull it up. She was caught on video, with a pickaxe, breaking a window at the Capitol.
Look, in interviews, or whatever, she says that she regrets that day, she regrets that action, because she has children and grandchildren. But she ultimately still believes what she did was right, right? I mean, she ultimately still believes the election lies that brought her there. And she has appealed directly to Trump, through the media, and through everything else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back.
O'SULLIVAN: And we're being moved back once more again, Anderson, so let's just move here a little bit.
[21:30:00]
COOPER: And Donie, do you have a sense of how many--
O'SULLIVAN: Really a chaotic scene here.
COOPER: --how many supporters of these prisoners are there now, right now, outside?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, there is--
COOPER: How large is that crowd?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, I would say there's probably about a 100 supporters here. It's been growing over the course of the evening.
Just going to make sure Andrew Christman here doesn't fall. There we go.
COOPER: That's good to protect your cameraman.
O'SULLIVAN: So, yes we're moving -- let's move back here, actually, to -- yes.
Let's move back here to where the guys were gathered.
It's very unclear what actually happened to make that surge towards the -- towards the -- towards the -- towards the main doors of the jail. But I think people must have seen someone in there.
Right now, what's been happening out here tonight is what has happened every night, for the past 900 nights outside here, activists have been holding a vigil. So families and friends of people who have loved ones, who are serving time for their actions, on January 6, they have been gathering outside this jail for last 900 nights. Of course, no night has looked quite like this.
Let me--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep moving (ph).
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, sure.
But prisoners call in, live--
COOPER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: --as they were, this evening, and obviously folks are extremely excited.
COOPER: Yes. Donie, we're going to--
O'SULLIVAN: Got some backup here (ph).
COOPER: We're going to check in with you--
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
COOPER: --shortly, OK? We're going to take -- we're going to go do another interview.
O'SULLIVAN: Sure.
COOPER: We'll check in with you.
I want to bring in former D.C. Metro Police Officer Michael Fanone. He joins us. He was badly attacked, beaten, defending the Capitol, lost consciousness, suffered a heart attack, after a man named Daniel Rodriguez repeatedly shocked him with a stun gun, yelling, Trump won. Daniel Rodriguez was granted a pardon tonight.
Michael, what -- when did you hear the news? And what is your reaction?
Michael, can you hear us?
Hey, Michael, we can't -- we can't hear you. I think you're muted on your --on your computer maybe.
Let's go back to Donie. We'll try to -- we'll get contact with Michael.
So Donie, it seems like now police have established a larger perimeter around the entrance to the facility.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, yes, that's right, Anderson. So basically, here's the scene. There's a lawn here, where the activists have been gathering all evening. And now a big police line. You can see something is going on. I'm not sure how -- how close we -- how close Andrew can get in, behind those doors. But there -- whatever's happening behind those doors--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I have your attention please?
O'SULLIVAN: Let's listen to the cops, right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys can protest and say whatever you'd like from the comfort of the sidewalk in the park. Please do not try and come across the street. Thank you.
O'SULLIVAN: OK. So, yes, unclear as to still what is happening.
Look, even within my line of sight here, Ashli Babbitt's mom--
COOPER: OK. Donie. Donie, we're going to come back to you.
O'SULLIVAN: --the woman who was killed in the Capitol.
COOPER: Donie, we're going to come back to you.
O'SULLIVAN: Sure.
COOPER: Michael Fanone, I believe, we have contact with.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
COOPER: Michael, I appreciate you being with us. I'm wondering when you heard the news, and what's going through your mind tonight.
MICHAEL FANONE, AUTHOR, "HOLD THE LINE," FORMER D.C. POLICE OFFICER: I just heard the news from your producers, a few moments ago. I mean, the only thing that -- that's going through my mind, right now, is that this is what the American people voted for.
Donald Trump has been promising these pardons ever since he announced his candidacy in Waco, Texas, the scene of one of the most notorious battles between American law enforcement, and the American extremist movement that resulted in the death of numerous law enforcement officers.
COOPER: Are you--
FANONE: Thanks, America.
COOPER: This feels like a betrayal to you, is that how?
FANONE: Oh, I have been betrayed by my country. Rest assured, I have been betrayed by my country, and I have been betrayed by those that supported Donald Trump. Whether you voted for him, because he promised these pardons, or for some other reason, you knew that this was coming. And here we are.
[21:35:00]
Tonight, six individuals, who assaulted me, as I did my job on January 6th, as did hundreds of other law enforcement officers, will now walk free. Six individuals who have threatened my life, and who have made threats towards my family members, as well as countless other January 6 defendants, who have threatened me, because they see me as a spokesperson for law enforcement, for this event.
My family, my children, and myself are less safe today, because of Donald Trump and his supporters.
COOPER: When you hear the President of the United States, Donald Trump, talking about Back the Blue, or his supporters saying that they Back the Blue, do you buy -- you don't buy that?
FANONE: No political party supports law enforcement. That's just a fact. Political parties support public safety. But they don't support police officers, and they don't understand the sacrifices that we make on behalf of the American people. That's been my experience as a 20- year career law enforcement officer, in a major metropolitan city in this country.
That being said, right now, I think that the Republican Party owns a monopoly on hypocrisy, when it comes to supporting or their supposed support of law enforcement, because tonight, the leader of the Republican Party pardoned hundreds of violent cop assaulters.
COOPER: You were pardoned today. And we should note, President Biden said it was not for committing a crime. It's for stepping forward, to testify about January 6th. Did you know about that in advance? What do you think about that? And are you concerned for the safety of your family?
FANONE: I had no communication with the White House or anyone else, for that matter, regarding a potential pardon or a presidential pardon.
I mean, all I can say is that I think it's a sad commentary on where we are, as a nation, that a sitting president thought it necessary to issue a preemptive pardon, to a witness in a congressional investigation, because the subject to that investigation is now the president, and it promised to pursue politically-motivated revenge. Again, it's just more examples of the outrageous behavior of the current president of the United States.
As far as concern for my family and my family's safety, I've been concerned for myself and my family's safety ever since I testified before Congress. If you remember, I didn't even make it through my congressional testimony, before I received my first threat from a member of the American public, who called me and threatened my life, literally as I was giving testimony.
And those threats have continued to this day, against both myself and members of my family. In recent months, my mother has been swatted, a 76-year-old woman, who's guilty of nothing other than having a son, a police officer who responded to the Capitol, on January 6th. And she's also had human feces thrown on her, while she was raking leaves in her front yard.
This is who we are as a nation. This is what we have become. And it has been further exacerbated by Donald Trump. As I've said many times before, we are self-centered, we are violent, and we are indifferent to the suffering of our neighbors.
COOPER: Michael, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.
FANONE: Thank you.
COOPER: You take care.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, Anderson, obviously, what has happened tonight with the pardons is a massive story. Michael Fanone is right that Trump has been previewing this for months now, maybe a better part of a year.
But also, he's signed more executive orders, a lot of them inside the Oval Office tonight. And he is trying to put the country on a new path when it comes to immigration, a huge priority of his, now that he's in office. And the border and migrant issue, of course, affects millions of people, already in this country, some trying lawfully to get in.
[21:40:00]
We saw a lot of tears today, at the southern border, as migrants discovered that appointments that they had made, on an app, to meet with immigration officers had been abruptly canceled, right after Trump was sworn in.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins me now with more on that.
And what appears to be Priscilla, a very significant personnel shake- up, when it comes to what we are looking at, and the very people, who deal with these issues. What can you tell us?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan. President Trump had released a series of executive actions on immigration today. But it was actually the actions that were happening very quietly and behind-the-scenes that may have had some of the biggest impact, at least now in the near-term.
One of them, what you just mentioned, it is the end of CBP One. That's a border app that essentially allows migrants to apply to come to a legal port of entry and schedule appointments. There are about 1,450 appointments a day. So over a 1,000 migrants were disappointed today, when after waiting in line to have this appointment, had it abruptly canceled.
Pair that with the fact that there's already restrictions along the U.S. southern border, and we're in this extraordinary place, where asylum is essentially shut off at the U.S. southern border, which is unprecedented.
Now, in addition to that, as you mentioned, I'm being told by sources that Trump officials also fired four key leaders that are part of the Justice Department's immigration office. This is called the Executive Office for Immigration Review. It oversees the nation's immigration courts.
Why is that important? Because immigration judges decide who gets to stay in the U.S., and who is going to be deported. So, this purge stunned officials, because these officials were career public servants. So, as the president was sitting at the Oval Office, and signing sweeping executive actions, like starting the process of trying to end birthright citizenship, like designating cartels as foreign terrorist organizations and essentially prefacing potentially military on Mexican soil, and with his national emergency declaration to shore up Pentagon resources.
As all of that was happening behind-the-scenes, thousands of migrants are already affected at the U.S. southern border, kept from coming into the United States, and at an agency, at the Justice Department, there was sweeping change, and who is in those key leadership roles.
Now, I will also tell you, Kaitlan, that there could be an unintended consequence of all of this. Homeland Security officials telling me that it is possible that those migrants, who had scheduled appointments, they may try to cross illegally now.
Now, we don't know if that's going to happen. It's very hard to gage patterns and the ebbs and flows of migration. But that is a top concern, this evening, among Homeland Security officials, who I've been talking to, who say, Well, now they may be crossing illegally.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, certainly something to watch for.
Priscilla Alvarez, thank you for that report.
And as I noted, the scene behind me, you can tell, the inauguration festivities here in Washington are continuing. I'm actually at one of the three balls that are happening.
And joining me here is CNN's John Berman.
And John, as we've been talking about, obviously, the serious moves that Trump just made, inside the Oval Office, on the January 6 pardons, on immigration. That's not really the environment that's reflected in here tonight. It's obviously a room filled with Trump supporters. Pete Hegseth. His Cabinet picks are here. Kid Rock is to our left.
I mean, there are certainly -- what have you been observing as you've been in the room tonight?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, I've been in here for a few hours, as has everyone in this room. You really had to get here early, to get through security.
Some 6,000 people here at the Commander in Chief Ball, one of three balls, as you said, one of two balls in this giant Convention Center, we're in right now. The Liberty Ball has about 15,000 people in it. President Trump will go to all three of these balls.
Presidential balls have been a tradition since 1809. James Madison was the first president to have inaugural ball. It was set up, I think, by the -- The Washington Dancing Assembly was the organization that sponsored it up on Capitol Hill. So that's something that's now been part of the inaugurations for such a long time.
The people here, there are no monitors. It looks like a campaign rally, but it's not, right?
COLLINS: It's packed in here.
BERMAN: It's packed. But there are no monitors. There's no politicking going on here. So people here haven't been watching the pardons going on in the Oval Office. They may not know the minute by minute.
They're here, presumably, to have a party, to see Rascal Flatts perform, to watch the President and first lady dance, which they will, right up there on that presidential seal, which you can see. We also do expect remarks from President Trump here, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, and of course, everyone will be watching to see what he says in that. We heard from him several times today.
And Anderson, as we wait for the President to arrive here, he signed a lot of executive orders today. It's easy to not notice all of them, or not be able to look through all of them.
But I've been looking at one, and it's titled Memorandum to Resolve the Backlog of Security Clearances for Executive Office of the President Personnel.
It may not strike you. You might not pay attention that, when you're looking through all of these, given the ones about January 6 pardons.
But I've been reading through it. And essentially, they are blaming the Biden administration for a backlog in security clearances for their nominees.
[21:45:00]
And so, because of that, Trump is saying that he is authorizing the White House counsel to provide top secret security clearance to essentially anyone for about six months, so they can come into the White House, work, have access to computer systems and classified information.
And obviously, that was an issue that Trump faced in his first term with security clearances that he overrode issues or concerns that people had, including for Jared Kushner, and instead, did grant them those security clearances.
This is saying that he would provide the White House counsel with a list of personnel that are immediately granted these top secret security clearances, for the next six months, as they undergo those background checks, and that process continues. But essentially, they will have access to this without having completed that, Anderson.
COOPER: Kaitlan, thanks.
I want to go back to our panel.
Also joining us is former New Hampshire Republican governor, Chris Sununu.
Governor, thanks for joining us.
CHRIS SUNUNU, (R) FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: You bet.
COOPER: First of all, the pardons, what do you make?
SUNUNU: Well, look, I personally, I think he should have been a lot more surgical, strategic about what about -- I think we're all pretty surprised about this blanket pardon of 1,500 people.
COOPER: The Enrique Tarrio's of--
SUNUNU: Yes, I mean, and it--
COOPER: Rhodes.
SUNUNU: And it goes along with what the Vice President said. He thought, again, just a couple days ago, making a statement that it wasn't going to be a blanket of pardons.
And I can tell you, what's happening outside the jail tonight, I don't think the White House wants that. It's a complete distraction. I don't think they were planning on that, per se.
But again, he's going to do what he's going to -- look, you're talking to a governor who has never pardoned anybody in eight years. So, I'm not really partial to pardons at all.
But he said he was -- he was going to do it. What will the net result be to the American people, to the public? Yes, we don't love it. He said he was going to do it. Are we going to fix immigration? Are we going to fix the wall? Are we going to take care of inflation? What's in it for me?
Because don't forget, I'm not equating the two per se. But this is on the backdrop of what happened this morning. And the American public see that. They -- I don't think anyone in the American public likes this pardon system. It's in the Constitution. We're kind of stuck with it. But everybody, I think, agrees that it's probably been a bit overused and abused.
But at the end of the day, America wants a change. They want a disruption, and they want to know what's going to change in their life. This isn't going to have a huge impact, one way or the other, unfortunately. So they're going to move onto the next thing.
And that's where Congress and the President have said. Again, why is he doing so many executive orders today? To be impactful, right, to make a statement.
JONES: The thing about pardons is it's a second chance that you usually have to earn. I'm a big pardons guy. You and I don't see it the same way.
SUNUNU: Yes. JONES: But look, when somebody's, they've done wrong, but they've atoned, they've worked on themselves, they're an example inside the jail? You want to give those people a way out, because it gives other people a reason to act right and get better. When you give people pardons, who've never apologized or atoned or even said, I'm sorry, officer? That's terrible.
PERRINE: Then, what are your thoughts on preemptive pardons, by Biden, right? He put these pardons out there for folks, in case they committed crimes.
JONES: Yes.
PERRINE: I mean, no one has -- I just want to be clear, no one has moral superiority on either side of the aisle, when it comes to pardons and abuse of them.
JONES: Yes.
PERRINE: But I'm curious what your thoughts are.
JONES: Look, I don't like the way he did it.
David Axelrod said, If you're going to do it, come out in the light of day, and explain to people, don't slip it under the rug at the end.
But I'm going to tell you, I know what federal prison looks like. And if I had a relative that I thought was going to be unjustly put in harm's way, I'd probably do the same thing. That's just how honestly I think of it.
COOPER: Governor, what do you think of Biden's sort of last-minute pardons for families?
SUNUNU: Awful. Awful. Look, I take a blanket approach to what has happened in last six days with Joe Biden. I think his staff has done him a horrible disservice. I don't think he woke up and said, I'm going to talk about the Equal Rights Amendment in this bizarre legal way. I'm going to wake up tomorrow and I'm going to sell parts of the border wall.
I think his staff is bitter. I think they're angry. And I think they've -- I think Joe Biden is a great, a nice person. And I think that his staff is using him leaving the White House, in a bitter way, to make a bitter political point on his legacy.
JENNINGS: You think -- you think--
AXELROD: I don't know -- I don't know--
JENNINGS: You think his staff--
AXELROD: --I don't know--
JENNINGS: --is the one that put him up to pardoning his own family?
SUNUNU: I -- yes.
JENNINGS: Because I -- because I -- because I believe he's--
SUNUNU: Well staff being -- I believe Joe Biden, yes.
JENNINGS: Right.
SUNUNU: I think his wife did, absolutely.
JENNINGS: Well, OK, well that's his family. I mean--
SUNUNU: Yes, yes.
JENNINGS: I mean, I think he's been plotting to do this for months and months and months, just like he was plotting to pardon Hunter Biden for months, while lying to the American people about it.
And this is the problem. If you want to be outraged about Donald Trump's January 6 pardons, it's just hard for me to muster the same kind of--
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But you did call them -- I mean you--
AXELROD: No, wait a second, you don't--
JENNINGS: I do not--
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Right. Scott, you did call them domestic terrorists.
JENNINGS: Yes, Look, I -- and I want to answer David, because he addressed me about this earlier.
I don't feel any differently about January 6 today, as I felt on the day, when you and I sat here. But I don't feel any differently about it at all. It was a terrible day. It should not have happened. People should not have committed violent acts. And it was a stain on the end of Donald Trump's first term.
However, I have taken in that event, his term, Biden's term, and then the American people took it all in, and they just rendered the ultimate adjudication for it.
And the difference between the preemptive pardons, and these pardons is the January 6 people, whether you like it or not, did, most of them, did face severe punishment. Some have already been in jail and already out of jail. Yes, they got a pardon, but that doesn't mean they didn't face consequences for their actions.
[21:50:00]
My problem with Biden is none of these preemptive pardons people are going to face any consequences, and because-- AXELROD: For what? For what, Scott?
JENNINGS: --most of its--
AXELROD: What are they? What crime? Did they--
JENNINGS: Oh, I don't know. I mean, how about gun crimes, drug crimes--
AXELROD: --rampage through the Capitol? What did they--
JENNINGS: --tax evasion, possible corruption?
AXELROD: No, I'm talking -- I'm not talking about Hunter Tom -- Hunter Biden.
JENNINGS: You tell me. Why did they need it then?
AXELROD: Because--
JENNINGS: Why did they need it then?
AXELROD: Well I think they felt--
JONES: Because of Trump.
AXELROD: I'm not -- look, you -- I was critical of this, and I think be -- because it gave a talking point, frankly, to people, among other reasons, it gave a talking point to people, who wanted to sort of minimize, 1,500 mass paroles.
But I -- preemptive, because the President of the United States, and the Congress, has, for several years, said the Biden crime family, we're going after. Never found anything. They had hearings after hearings after hearings.
JENNINGS: I just -- I disagree with that, by the way. I think there's plenty there to look into, which is why he did the -- I mean, let's be honest. He knows that there are things there that could be actionable, and he doesn't want his family to face consequences.
AXELROD: Do you think -- do you--
JONES: I see it the other way.
COOPER: We got to take a break.
Governor Sununu, thank you. Appreciate it.
SUNUNU: I love that you think that Biden plotted something for two months. You just give a lot more credit to Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Still to come, more on President Trump's plans for his first 100 days. Former Republican senator, who served as an ambassador, during the first Trump administration, joins us tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: And good evening. We are waiting for the President and the first lady to arrive. They are expected to leave the White House soon, about a mile and a half away, from where we are now. They have three inaugural balls to go to this evening, running a little bit behind schedule. But we're tracking those movements closely.
Joining me now is Republican Scott Brown, a former Senator from Massachusetts, who later served as the U.S. Ambassador to New Zealand and Samoa during President Trump's first term.
And thank you so much for being here.
You heard from Trump in his speech today, talking about the greatest four years in American history. And I want to ask you, what your expectations are for this second term, given what you've seen him do in the Oval Office, tonight, and kind of what tone that sets for the next four years are going to look like.
SCOTT BROWN, FORMER U.S. AMB. TO NEW ZEALAND & THE INDEPENDENT STATE OF SAMOA, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR - MASSACHUSETTS: Well, he said he was going to do exactly what he did tonight. He was going to sign a bunch of executive orders that he felt were appropriate. They've been thoroughly reviewed by his legal team. And he did just what he said he was going to do. And that's what the American people wanted. That's why they voted for him.
I thought the tone of the speech was optimistic. Yes, there's going to be some veiled shots to the previous administration.
As you know, and I've spoken many times, I didn't agree with President Biden. I liked him personally, but I didn't agree with him on the border, and a whole host of other things he did.
So, he's going to do what he's done -- going to do, to make this country, I think, better again, and a whole host of things.
COLLINS: Yes.
And I should note, we just saw President Trump and first lady Melania Trump get into the motorcade, as they will be on their way to the balls. We are expecting to hear him speak.
And you said you thought it was an optimistic tone. There were some, I wouldn't say, not so veiled shots at President Biden.
But on the pardons that we saw in the Oval Office tonight. I'm very curious for your perspective, as a Republican, who worked for Trump in the first term, because you later said that you did believe an investigation into January 6 was a no-brainer. Do you approve of the pardons that President Trump just signed for those who were convicted of crimes for that day? BROWN: Well, certainly it was a very busy day for pardons.
I didn't agree with the preemptive pardons that President Biden has done. I think it sets a terrible, terrible tone.
And I agree with a lot of your guests in that the ones that really had involvement with the police officers, I think those need to be kind of put aside and looked at in a case-by-case basis, because a lot of those people have, in fact, served time. Their lives have been destroyed. They've done a lot of damage to them and their families. And I think those are in a different category. I'll let the, obviously, the public decide.
But they knew when January 6 happened, when they voted for President Trump, they took all that into consideration and overwhelmingly supported him. So, I think we need to move on, and actually focus on, he hasn't been there, what, 10 hours yet, and he's done a lot more than President Biden has done in almost the last year.
COLLINS: Yes. And of course, we've questioned Democrats on President Biden's pardons for the January 6 committee, for his family members.
But given you worked for Trump, and he did just pardon people who attacked law enforcement on that day, does that sit well with you? I mean, what does it say about a party that touts itself as the party of rule and law that always has police officers at events. I mean, those are -- there were officers there, protecting that inauguration. Those were the same kinds of officers that were attacked by rioters that day.
BROWN: Yes, no, listen, I said that previously, it's no surprise attacking a police officer -- and keeping law enforcement brothers and sisters in law enforcement safe is very, very important. That's an area where I would actually hope that they look at a little bit more seriously, and take time to figure out if that was the right move.
But once again, it's his decision. They have blanket power. If you don't like it, then you have to change that type of thing.
Bottom line is, I'm looking forward to the next four years. He has a lot of things that he's done. I'm glad that Marco got approved 99 to nothing. I was 94 to four. So he beat that record, and he got a lot of things that we need to work on.
We got to close the border. And a lot of the things that he signed tonight, you were talking earlier, I watched the show all night, you're talking about never would have happened. Biden probably could have been reelected, had he not abused the border and done things that, quite frankly, we've never seen in the history of our country.
So, he has to fix a lot. I'm hopeful that he does it. And I'm hopeful that some of the Democrats work on it. I heard Elizabeth Warren, tonight, talking about, Well, he hasn't done this for the middle- class.
He's been there not even, like, 10 hours. Come on. Give me a break. Let him enjoy his first day. And then let's move forward.
COLLINS: When you compare the numbers between Trump and Biden on the border, they've actually deported roughly the same amount of undocumented immigrants. Coming in this time, given how big and how high of expectations he's set on immigration, specifically promising mass deportations, do you believe that he can fulfill those promises?
[22:00:00]
BROWN: Well, that's up to him and his administration. I support getting rid of all the people that are here, who've already been adjudicated as criminals, and they shouldn't be here. We shouldn't have this open and porous border that has been happening for four years, since President Biden reversed the Stay in Mexico policy.
So there's a lot that Biden could have done. Now, President Trump has to catch up. Can he do a mass deportation overnight? No, of course not. But it can get rid of the worst of the worst? Absolutely. And let's do it yesterday.
COLLINS: OK. We'll see what that looks like.
Former Senator, Scott Brown, thank you for joining us tonight.
BROWN: Thanks.
COLLINS: And our coverage of The Inauguration of Donald Trump continues. "CNN NEWSNIGHT" with Abby Phillip and Laura Coates, starts right now.
