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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. Moving Toward Oligarchy; Officer Hodges: Rioters Attacked Me, They Don't Deserve A Pardon; Denver Mayor Says City Will Work With ICE On Deporting Criminals, But Won't Allow Arrests At Schools & Churches. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 21, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CECILE RICHARDS, FORMER PRESIDENT OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD: And whatever needs doing. And the other thing she felt so strongly about and why she was in public service, she used to say why should you -- your life only be about you? And that really helps, especially at times like this, when you're facing a really tough diagnosis, and -- but it's important to me, and it's important to my kids, that they see me doing things in the world as long as I can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Cecile Richards was 67-years-old.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
In his first full day back on the job, President Trump defended pardoning virtually every January 6 rioter, said he was open to Elon Musk buying TikTok, and a whole lot more.
Senator Bernie Sanders is here, and will join me live in moments with his thoughts.
Also, one of the officers, who was violently attacked that day is here. He also happens to be an officer, who just protected Trump and his supporters, at his inauguration, 24 hours ago.
Plus, I have new reporting, this evening, on Trump's termination of Secret Service protection, for his own former National Security Advisor, John Bolton. Bolton, the target of an Iranian assassination plot.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening from Washington, where President Trump is just finishing up his first full day in office. I should note, tonight also marks a new era for this show, given I'll also be covering the White House as CNN's Chief White House Correspondent, in addition to anchoring THE SOURCE.
That means that every night, here at 09:00 p.m., I'll have new reporting on what's happening behind closed doors. The goal, of course, is to bring you the inner details on the workings of the Trump administration that you won't get anywhere else. Judging by the last 24 hours, it promises to be a very busy four years.
And that's where we start this evening, because Donald Trump, perhaps faster and further than anyone before him, is wasting no time in flexing the enormous powers of the presidency, already pushing the limits to see just how far he can go, to bulldoze anything, or anyone, in the way of his agenda.
If Trump round one began with shock and awe, round two appears to be retribution and ruthless efficiency. In the last 24 hours, we have seen an avalanche of executive orders and actions on immigration, the economy, and controlling the levers of justice in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER ALEXANDER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NBC NEWS: You would agree that it's never acceptable to assault a police officer, right?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Sure.
These people have already served a long period of time. These were people that actually love our country, so we thought a pardon would be appropriate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The leaders of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers were free, following their pardons yesterday. Is there now a place for them in the political conversation?
TRUMP: Well, we have to see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you open to Elon buying TikTok?
TRUMP: I would be if he wanted to buy it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you remove John Bolton's security clearance, Sir?
TRUMP: We're not going to have security on people for the rest of their lives. Why should we? A stupid guy. But no, you can't have that for life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As you heard there, there's already so much happening so fast, it can almost trigger a sensory overload. I get it, it was like trying to drink out of a fire hose, the first four years.
But I think it's important to be clear that what you're seeing play out is not just chaos. From our reporting, what we are witnessing is a full-court press, an all-encompassing strategy by the President and his inner circle that has been meticulously planned for months, and now they are trying to put it in place.
My lead source tonight is the Independent senator from Vermont, Senator Bernie Sanders.
And it's great to have you here, Senator Sanders.
You were there at the inauguration speech, yesterday. Out of the first 24 hours of the Trump presidency, has anything surprised you?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): No. I think, in terms of the speech, I suppose if you're a Trump supporter, you thought it was good. If you're a Trump opponent, as I am, you did not think it was good.
But I think the main point, that kind of, you inferred to that a second ago, we're going to see a whole lot of stuff. Every single day, you're going to see all kinds of stuff. But it is terribly important, in my view, for the American people to stay focused on the most important issues facing our country, all right?
For example, very few people denied -- deny that our health care system is broken, it is dysfunctional, and it is outrageously expensive. Did the President in his inaugural speech say one word about the health care crisis?
In America, today, we have a major housing crisis. Not just 800,000 people who are homeless. Millions of people paying 50, 60 percent limited income in housing -- on housing. Did the President say one word about the housing crisis?
[21:05:00]
We have massive income and wealth inequality, the gap between the very rich and everybody else, never been wider. But sitting behind the President, as you know, were the three wealthiest people in America, worth together over a trillion dollars. Did the President say one word about income and wealth inequality? Obviously not. Those are his supporters.
COLLINS: What was it like for you to see those people? Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, all sitting behind Trump yesterday. And not just behind him, but sitting next to his Cabinet--
SANDERS: Well, Kaitlan--
COLLINS: --hopefuls.
SANDERS: --as you may know, I have been talking about my fears, as how the United States is moving rapidly toward an oligarchic form of society.
And anybody who was in the room or on TV, and saw the President of the United States surrounded by the three wealthiest people in this country, one of whom made hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions to him, at a same time when we have more concentration of ownership than we have ever had?
The conclusion, I hope, that most people reach, is that we are moving toward an oligarchy. We have got to fight back. We've got to protect our democracy. We need an economy that works for all, not just for the people on top.
COLLINS: What would you say to Trump supporters, or people who saw Elon Musk and them sitting there, and thought, That's cool. These are people who have done a lot for the United States or in innovation, and said, Actually, it's not such a bad thing that people should be criticizing. What would you say to that?
SANDERS: Well, I think, we will see how it plays out.
But I think Trump campaigned for president saying, I'm going to be a candidate of the working-class of this country, right? Well, we will see if he addresses the health care crisis. We will see if he, in fact, is prepared to take on Big Pharma and lower the cost of prescription drugs.
And certainly, on issues like raising the minimum wage to a living wage, he's not going to be anywhere near where we have to be. In terms of housing, he's not going to do what has to be done.
And the one thing he did say, in terms of major issues facing our country, is, in a sense, he talked about climate change. He said, drill, baby, drill. So, at a time when we have had the 10 warmest years on record, last 10 years, when we have seen natural disasters in Los Angeles, right now, all over the world, what he says, Hey, I'm going to make a horrific situation even worse, drilling for more oil, more carbon emissions.
So bottom line here is, I think, as Americans, we've got to appreciate what's going on in the country. We're moving toward oligarchy. 60 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Millions work for starvation wages. We need a government that works for all, not just for Elon Musk. We will see what happens.
COLLINS: Well, Elon Musk, he was not just there at the inauguration, and obviously is playing a pretty big role in this administration. I saw him going into the West Wing, yesterday. He's getting office space on the White House grounds.
You voted against that law, forcing TikTok to sell from its parent company, ByteDance.
SANDERS: Right.
COLLINS: You didn't -- you didn't believe it was the right way to handle that.
But when Trump says he would be OK if Elon Musk tried to buy TikTok? Your thoughts?
SANDERS: Well, I mean, this is what oligarchy is about. You have Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post. Mr. Musk already owns Twitter. You have other billionaires owning the major media outlets in this country. CNN, other comp -- if you look at who owns them, you're looking at large Wall Street firms. So, you already have a major serious problem, in terms of ownership of the media. If Musk ends up owning TikTok, it will only make a bad situation much worse.
COLLINS: What did you -- and maybe you didn't notice this. We have a picture of it. But there was at one point where Shou Chew, the CEO of TikTok, who has ingratiated himself with Trump's circle--
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --was seated next to Tulsi Gabbard, Trump's pick to be the Director of National Intelligence, who might get confirmed by the body you're in. We'll see. Do you -- I mean, what do you -- just the seat of them sitting together at an event like this?
SANDERS: Yes, I don't know.
COLLINS: Does that bother you?
SANDERS: No, I mean, I don't know how they make their seating arrangements. I don't think that's all that important.
What is important is that you have a small number of very wealthy people, who own the media, who in recent months, have kind of caved in to Trump. You're having Trump suing various media outlets, and it's going to result, I think, in a fear of the media standing up to Trump, worrying about being sued, worried about other problems.
But bottom line is that the First Amendment is enormously important. We need media, who are fearless and speaking out, on the issues of the day. And you're not going to have that, when you have a small number of very wealthy people controlling what we see here and read.
COLLINS: On Tulsi Gabbard, have you met with her, as she's vying to get Senate confirmation?
SANDERS: No, I have not. Not yet.
COLLINS: Do you know how you plan to vote on her?
SANDERS: No.
COLLINS: But you're--
SANDERS: And I look forward to sitting down and chatting with her.
COLLINS: But you could potentially see yourself voting for Tulsi Gabbard?
SANDERS: I look forward to sitting down and chatting with her.
COLLINS: I just was asking, because you defended her before. She introduced you, actually, when you had your -- when you were nominated at the convention. You have defended her, when some of your colleagues were called -- or not, your colleagues, but some Democrats were calling her a Russian asset, in years prior.
SANDERS: Right.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: Do you (inaudible).
SANDERS: Look, I think when she ended up supporting me, back in 2016, she got a lot of heat for that.
I think her visit to Syria to meet with Assad. Well, Donald Trump did the right thing. Every once in a while he does. He met with the leader of North Korea. The idea that you should not sit down with your adversaries, whether it's Iran, whether it's China, whether it's North Korea, whether it's Syria, whatever it may be. I don't think that that's a valid criticism.
COLLINS: The Washington Post had a report tonight on that, that even her staff then had questions, though, about what it was that they talked about for so long. It was a meeting that went for an extended period of time.
Would you ask her about that, when you do meet with her about this job?
SANDERS: We'll see. I mean, yes, I would like to know what her views are on various issues. Sure.
COLLINS: OK. So keep us updated on that.
But I do want to ask you about what we saw in the first 24 hours. You talked about focusing on what's important and what has impact. The January 6 pardons do have impact.
We're going to talk to an officer, who was beaten that day.
When you see that he pardons virtually everybody, who is convicted or has a case, what does that say about the rule of law, to you?
SANDERS: Well, you're right. It says a lot. It especially says a lot, given the fact that Trump claims to be a great supporter of the police in America. Great believer in law and order. He loves the cops.
Well, a 140 police officers were injured, a few died, because they defended members of Congress, and they defended democracy in America against an insurrection. These guys are heroes.
And to tell the entire world, they were going to pardon people, who attacked and hurt police officers is telling, I think, the world that violence is OK, and it's OK to attack police officers when you have a mind to do so. I think that is a horrible message, and I strongly disagree with his pardoning of those insurrectionists.
COLLINS: One thing that he's been using, tonight, to defend it were President Biden's preemptive pardons. And I know you had come out, and said he should seriously consider them for the January 6 committee. He not only pardoned the committee, and the officers, who testified before them. He also pardoned his brothers and his sister--
SANDERS: OK. Well you see--
COLLINS: --and their spouses.
SANDERS: --Kaitlan, I mean, in my view, you can argue whether Biden did the right thing or the wrong thing, all right, you know?
COLLINS: And what do you think?
SANDERS: Well, what I think is that he was worried that, given all of Trump's rhetoric, that Trump was going to go after his family and close associates, all right? That's the concern. But don't equate the two.
I don't know that anybody in Trump's family tried to overthrow the United States government, and attack police officers. What Trump did is say to the world--
COLLINS: Anyone in Biden's family.
SANDERS: Pardon me?
COLLINS: Anyone in Biden's family.
SANDERS: In the Biden family, I'm sorry.
What Trump is saying to the world is that it is OK for you to attack police officers, when you have a mind to do that. And I think that it's an outrageous message to send to the world.
COLLINS: And you think you can't equate them. Because they're pointing to Biden pardoning the activists, who killed two--
SANDERS: That's what they're saying. I do. I saw that.
COLLINS: --two FBI agents.
SANDERS: Look, that's a good excuse. But nothing -- you could argue, Did Biden do the right thing? Did he do the wrong thing? Fine. It has nothing to do with what Trump did, today.
COLLINS: On just what Trump has done, overall, one thing he did was pull the United States out of the -- he's seeking to pull the United States out of the World Health Organization.
SANDERS: Great.
COLLINS: We all lived through a pandemic a few years ago. Do you think that could backfire?
SANDERS: Well, if you believe in health, yes. If you believe that it's important for the world to come together, to address future pandemics, yes. If you think it's important for scientists around the world to cooperate, in figuring out how we create a more healthy planet, and if you want to protect the poorest people in the world, yes, I think it's a major mistake.
Look, I think it's outrageous. And I think especially not only with pandemics, but with climate change, we've got to bring the world, together, to fight our common enemies.
I was Chairman of the Health Committee. We had all the experts in front of us. When you ask them, Do you think another pandemic is going to come? Their answer is, Yes. Are we prepared? No, we are not.
So, the idea that you separate yourself from the rest of the world makes zero sense to me.
COLLINS: And you had a lot of conversations about that as the Chairman of that committee.
On just the next four years, overall, is there anywhere you think you could work with the Trump administration? Is it -- is it DOGE? Is it some of these Cabinet officials--
SANDERS: No, I mean, for example--
COLLINS: --like Tulsi Gabbard, RFK?
SANDERS: --I mean, we will see whether Trump is going to keep any of the campaign promises he made to working people.
You will recall, he said he wants to cap interest rates on credit cards at 10 percent. You know what? At a time when desperate people are paying 20, 30 percent interest rates? I think that's a good idea.
[21:15:00]
Musk said there's a lot of waste in the Defense Department. Musk is right, all right?
Trump has talked about cutting down on the cost of prescription drugs. We've got to do that. If he's prepared to stand up for working families, I am prepared to work with him.
COLLINS: OK. We'll see what that looks like.
Senator Bernie Sanders, as always, thank you for your time.
SANDERS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Great to have you on.
And tonight, as I mentioned, Trump is offering a full-throated defense of the rioters that he pardoned, even if they attacked cops. One of those officers, who was brutalized, on that day, helped keep Trump and his supporters safe at the inauguration. I'm going to speak to Daniel Hodges next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - JANUARY 6, 2021, CAPITOL HILL, WASHINGTON, D.C. - D.C. POLICE OFFICER DANIEL HODGES BEING CRUSHED AGAINST DOOR BY MOB STORMING CAPITOL)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is offering a full-throated defense of one of his first moves as president, pardoning the convicted January 6 rioters, including those who attacked cops that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am the friend of police, more than any president that's ever been in this office.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President -- President Trump--
REPORTER: Sir, more than -- more than 400 of the people that you've pardoned, though, assaulted officers, so I want to ask you about the Vice President, JD Vance. He said, 'if' -- and this is a week ago. He said "If you committed violence on January 6th, obviously you should not be pardoned."
Why is your Vice President wrong?
TRUMP: Well, only for one reason. They've been -- they've served years in jail. They should not have served--
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Excuse me. And they have served years in jail. And murderers don't even go to jail in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Not clear what he's referencing there.
But I should note that that day, of course, one of the most searing images, the most brutal assaults, was against Officer Daniel Hodges. You can't forget the disturbing way he was attacked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - JANUARY 6, 2021, CAPITOL HILL, WASHINGTON, D.C. - D.C. POLICE OFFICER DANIEL HODGES BEING CRUSHED AGAINST DOOR BY MOB STORMING CAPITOL)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And as he was being attacked, one rioter ripped Officer Hodges' gas mask. Another hit him in the head with his own baton. One tried to gouge one of his eyes out.
And it was Patrick McCaughey that you can see here, who pinned him in that Capitol doorway, and assaulted him with a police shield. A judge sentenced him to seven and a half years in prison, for his role in that attack. But tonight, he is free. His mom tells the Connecticut Insider, he's on his way home.
And Officer Daniel Hodges joins me now, which I should note, is happening in your personal capacity.
When you saw that Trump pardoned all of these people, virtually everyone who was charged and convicted, even those who saw their cases ongoing, even those who pleaded guilty. Just what went through your mind?
DANIEL HODGES, D.C. POLICE OFFICER ASSAULTED IN JANUARY 6TH ATTACK: I mean, it wasn't a surprise. This is what Trump campaigned on. The die was cast for this on November 5th, right? So, this is what the people voted for.
And even though it wasn't a surprise, it still hurt to see. Because these people were violent insurrectionists. They brutally attacked me and my colleagues. They wanted to stop the peaceful transfer of power. I don't see why so many of them would deserve a pardon.
COLLINS: And you actually worked Trump's inauguration yesterday?
HODGES: Correct.
COLLINS: I mean, you're still out there fulfilling your duties, as law enforcement, and protecting him, and protecting the people, who were there, supporting him. What is that like for you?
HODGES: Yes, I mean, that's the thing about democracy, right? You just you can't just believe in it when your guy wins. You got to believe in it when the other guy wins too.
And part of that, especially in my job, is being respectful, and doing the best job you can, providing law enforcement services to the best of your ability, to even to people who hate me. Even though none of them recognized me, but if I told them, I'm confident they would have had a different reaction.
COLLINS: Patrick McCaughey, the one who was released from prison, who attacked you specifically, was one of those in that mob during that searing image. He's free now.
I went back and looked at what the judge said to him, when he sentenced him, and he said that his actions on January 6th were some of the most egregious crimes that were committed that day, that he left you completely defenseless, and he had to retreat, but you didn't retreat.
You were there, when he was sentenced. Has he ever apologized to you personally? HODGES: He was one of those in court, who apologized during his sentencing. Whether he's sincere or not, who knows? I guess, we'll find out now, right?
COLLINS: And he never reached out to outside of court, or once he was in prison?
HODGES: No, no.
COLLINS: The Fraternal Order of Police put out a statement, just a few moments ago, saying that they've had long-standing positive relations with President Trump. But they said, Crimes against law enforcement are not just attacks on individual or public safety, they are attacks on society and they undermine the rule of law.
And they said, When perpetrators of the crimes, especially serious ones, are not held fully accountable, it sends a dangerous message that the consequences for attacking law enforcement are not severe, potentially emboldening others to commit similar acts of violence.
Are you worried that Trump's pardon of people like Patrick encourages them to do this again?
HODGES: Yes, yes. I mean, why wouldn't it, right? If people know that there are not going to be any consequences for their actions, particularly their crimes, and they would like to further a certain agenda with extreme violence, then all they have to know is that they've got a wink and a nod from a man in office, who doesn't have any integrity, and they're good to go, right?
COLLINS: Trump says he's the friend of the police. Do you think that's true?
[21:25:00]
HODGES: Trump says a lot of things. Sometimes lies are more reliable than truth. And I have not had any experience that would suggest he is a friend of the police.
I think what he's a friend of is anyone who elevates his position, and secures his authority, which law enforcement is obligated to do here. But some people do it with enthusiasm, based on ideology rather than duty. And that is what he's a fan of.
COLLINS: And we're seeing the reaction from these people who are being released, some of them who are just thrilled.
The QAnon Shaman that we saw that day, who became notorious, he was sentenced to more than three years. He was granted early release. And he touted the pardon that he got from Trump, and he said, quote, all- caps, NOW I AM GONNA BUY SOME MOTHA effing GUNS. I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
What do you -- how does that feel for you?
HODGES: It's, you know, though -- I hope that there are those, who were sentenced, and convicted, and did time, who had a period of self- reflection and perhaps some personal growth. This man is obviously not one of them. He doesn't appear to regret anything he's done, or anything he stood for. And just have to hope that he refrains from violence in the future.
COLLINS: Does it make you worried for your safety?
HODGES: I'm a D.C. cop. I get threats and -- before January 6th, and I'm going to get threats after. It's not going to change. But yes, a little bit. I mean, these people say they want revenge, right? So, if they want to come after me, then that's their choice. I'll be ready.
COLLINS: You testified with several other officers, in front of the January 6th congressional committee. I don't know if you knew about this before, but President Biden, before he left office yesterday, issued a pardon for everyone on that committee. There are teams, who worked on that, and the officers who testified before the committee.
How do you feel about getting that pardon from him?
HODGES: It's a lot of mixed emotions. Obviously, I'm grateful that President Biden thought of me, in his final moments, and my, and my colleagues' continued legal safety.
It's a novel sensation to receive a pardon, when you haven't committed any crimes. And at the same time, I'm disinclined to accept it, because I haven't committed any crimes, I haven't done anything wrong. And to accept -- I know, legally, it's debatable. But in my mind, accepting a pardon--
COLLINS: You don't want it.
HODGES: --is an admission of guilt.
And if this incoming administration wants to come after me, and dedicate their political capital, their money, their time, to trying to lock me up on some trumped-up charge, then that's -- those resources that they can't spend going after someone more vulnerable.
COLLINS: Wow, so you would be not OK, but you would be able to be OK with if they were coming after you?
HODGES: Yes, it's not an ideal situation. But I didn't do this to be safe. I didn't take the job to be safe. This is a kind of danger that I wasn't planning on, when I signed up for the job. But I try to do what's best for everybody, as best I can.
COLLINS: Officer Hodges, thank you for your work, and thank you for joining me tonight.
HODGES: Thanks for having me on.
COLLINS: Really appreciate it.
Coming up. My new reporting on President Trump's move, quietly, to pull the Secret Service protection for his former National Security Advisor, one of his first acts in office. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's quite a heavy presence. Now that has been stripped of him. He was informed of this, and delivered a statement to CNN about this, saying that he was disappointed with this decision by President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Within hours of taking office, President Trump signed a flurry of executive orders in front of the camera. But there was one move that he made behind-the-scenes that could have real consequences.
I was the first to report earlier, that Trump quietly terminated the Secret Service protection, for his former National Security Advisor, John Bolton.
Now, Trump had initially stripped Bolton of this security, in 2019, after he had left. But President Biden later restored it, because Bolton has active and serious assassination threats from Iran made against him.
But Trump defended that move tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think that was enough time. It's we take a job. You take a job, you want to do a job. We're not going to have security on people for the rest of their lives. Why should we?
I thought he was -- I thought he was a very dumb person, but I used him well.
You can't have that for life. You shouldn't expect it for life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: When I say active and ongoing. Remember, in 2022, the Justice Department charged an Iranian national for plotting to assassinate Bolton, on American soil. Tonight, that individual is still wanted by the FBI.
My political sources are:
The former Biden campaign senior adviser, Alencia Johnson.
And former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.
David, what do you make of Trump doing this?
[21:35:00] DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Listen, I don't know what the intelligence looks like. Obviously, there's an intelligence threat done, analysis done. If there's an active threat still on former Ambassador Bolton's life, I think he should have security. If it's for the rest of his life, it should be the rest of his life.
If John Bolton did things in our nation's defense that put his life at risk, then he should be defended by our nation, for as long as it takes, whether it's President Trump, President Biden, future presidents.
If you do things in defense of our nation, as a public figure, and a foreign government says, We're going to kill you, and there's an active -- and there's an active threat? Then, I think we have an obligation to defend you.
That's why special operators have their faces blacked out. They're not -- people who do -- you know, tier one operators, they do these things, so they're not -- their families aren't threatened and the like. I think John Bolton should be protected.
COLLINS: We heard John Bolton talk about this. Because he was saying, yes, he has been a critic of Trump's, which he believes, obviously, is why this happened. But he also criticized President Biden, and President Biden restored his protection when he was in office.
Listen -- he sat down with Jake Tapper, right after we found out about this, and this is what John Bolton himself had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: I think it's certainly a downer for expressing your opposition to Donald Trump, as I say, now I'm not going to make sure measures are in place to provide protection, but -- but I think the signal is clear.
This should not be a partisan matter. It should not be a matter of differing opinions on policy or personalities. This, to me, is an act of war against the United States by the Government of Iran in threatening current and former American officials, for doing their jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, this isn't a not real threat. These are -- these are active and ongoing. And we've seen Iran targeting other officials, like Trump, and members of his campaign team, and his family.
ALENCIA JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, look, I know David and I don't always agree on a lot of things. But when it comes to national security and active threats, you have to put partisan politics aside. That's exactly what President Biden did when it came to this threat.
And I wanted to look at the bigger message this is sending to people, who have been critical of President Trump and have, literally talked about their expertise, and how they might disagree with him, how they are fearful, or concerned about the way he will govern. But that doesn't mean, just because they disagree with you, that you should take away their security clearance, when there is an active threat against your life.
It also weakens our position--
COLLINS: I mean, John Bolton could be killed.
JOHNSON: Exactly. And it weakens our position in the world. And that is something that we, I think, as we've been looking over the past few years, we've been looking at America standing in the global -- in the global foreign affairs. And so, this is actually really concerning, putting party politics aside.
COLLINS: And John Bolton said in a statement to me earlier that he was disappointed but not surprised by it.
I think another thing that's not surprising is, but isn't normal, is -- or traditional, I guess I should say, is, at the Pentagon, they display the portraits of the Joint Chiefs Chairmen, everyone who's held that role.
General Mark Milley's was just done weeks ago. It was unveiled at the Pentagon. You can see it here.
This is what that space looks like now. They've removed it.
I mean, David, what does that say to you?
URBAN: Look, I don't know if the President directed so that General Milley's portrait be take down. I don't know who directed it. I think it's not a great message.
I think, listen, the Republican Party's just big about not taking down people's statues we don't agree with, right? We said we shouldn't be rewriting history by taking down statues.
COLLINS: Yes, and those were Confederate generals, not someone like General Mark Milley.
URBAN: Yes, so -- so whether you like Mark Milley, or whether you're not, he held the position. The portraits of every other Chairman of the Joint Chiefs are hanging in that hallway. His portrait deserves to be hung there. It's just it's a matter of protocol, not a matter of politics.
Again, there are chairmen, who served there, probably have varied backgrounds. Your portrait is hung there, tradition. I think, I'm hopeful that during the course of this next four years, that portrait goes back up.
JOHNSON: Look, one thing that I've paid attention to, across administrations, no matter Republican or Democrat, is that there is a certain reverence for military service, for national security, and this is very much clearly showing that Trump doesn't care about any of that.
And so, we often talk about when it comes to Trump, and the way that some elected officials respond to him, we talk about protocol, tradition, democracy. This is very clearly showing how he's going to govern, within 24 hours of him being inaugurated, that he's playing these petty politics. Can guarantee nobody was paying attention to this, except for Donald Trump.
URBAN: Well, again, I'm not sure that Donald Trump directed the portrait to be taken down. I didn't--
JOHNSON: I wouldn't be surprised if he did it.
URBAN: Listen, I did not know Mark Milley's portrait was hung there. I'm pretty sure Donald Trump didn't know his portrait was hung there.
COLLINS: They were tweeting about it. But we'll see. We'll ask him.
David Urban. Alencia Johnson. Thank you both.
Alencia, I should note, your forthcoming book is titled "Flip the Tables: The Everyday Disruptor's Guide to Finding Courage and Making Change."
Thank you both for being here.
Up next. The threat of imminent immigration raids, putting many cities on edge. We'll tell you what the White House is saying about the timing of those tonight.
[21:40:00]
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COLLINS: Right now, immigrant communities, across the U.S., are on edge, as the President and his vows to carry out mass deportations is looming, especially in major cities, where immigrant advocates in Denver are telling CNN tonight that right now, hundreds of volunteers are ready to deploy at a moment's notice, to document possible ICE arrests, in their city, increased ICE arrests.
My source tonight is the Denver Mayor, Mike Johnston.
And Mayor, it's great to have you tonight.
[21:45:00]
Have you seen any evidence, since Trump took office, that ICE agents are conducting arrests at different or higher levels than normal in your city?
MAYOR MIKE JOHNSTON, (D) DENVER, COLORADO: We've not seen any presence yet, or any raids or activations. We're obviously on the lookout, all over the city, and talking to all of our community partners, and schools and churches and hospitals, and work sites, and we have not seen any evidence yet. But we assume that they are coming. COLLINS: And you're taking this seriously?
JOHNSTON: We're taking it incredibly seriously. We feel like we have to take the president at his word. When he lifts prohibitions on being able to conduct ICE raids at schools or hospitals or churches, we assume he's doing that for a reason.
We also think that would have a massive destabilizing effect on core city services. You can't have a safe city, if someone can't feel confident to take their kid to the emergency room, or can't feel confident to drop their kid off at school. And so for us, those are core public services we want to make sure run smoothly.
COLLINS: Well, and for people who don't know what you're talking about, this is a policy that ICE had set in 2011, I believe, basically preventing agents from making arrests in sensitive locations, like a school or a church.
JOHNSTON: Yes.
COLLINS: And we're told tonight that that has changed.
You have said, Coloradans will be protected at those sensitive locations. How do you -- well, how do you do that? What does that actually look like? I mean, how do you stop that from happening, if a parent is dropping a kid off at school, or someone's leaving church, or being discharged from a hospital?
JOHNSTON: Yes, I think the first step is, if they go forward with that, we will challenge that in court.
We think it's long-standing bipartisan practice. I think it's not just illegal, but I think it is immoral. I met with a number of West Point cadets, this weekend. Not one of them signed up because they want to come home to their hometown, and pull a 12-year-old girl out of history class, or have to pull a mom and her daughter out of a church pew. I think that's not what our military officers or our ICE officers should be doing.
And so, we'll challenge it in court, and we'll try to get injunctions to stop those practices. We think there are plenty of reasonable, commonsense ways to go about enforcing the removal of violent criminals, and we can support and collaborate on that. But there's no reason to target citizens that are going to work every day, and going to school, and trying to pay taxes, and get a chance.
COLLINS: I interviewed Tom Homan, who is Trump's border czar, about what happens to kids, who are in mixed status households, if one parent is here and they're an undocumented immigrant and they're deported, what happens to those kids?
And he was essentially saying, Well, if a parent has been drinking and driving and gets arrested, and the kid is taken away, that's the parent's fault because they committed a crime. He was saying someone who crosses the border illegally is committing a crime. Obviously, they are. But he was saying that that's the same situation. Do you have a plan for children who have one or two parents that that could happen to?
JOHNSTON: Yes, these are the heartbreaking decisions we have to make. I've been talking to families. Our Human Services Department has. And we've told families they should make plans.
If we have the situation we're worried about, where you have a 13- year-old girl waiting to get picked up after school, and her mom never shows up, we need to have an emergency plan for that, whether it's friends they can contact, relatives. We'll have short-term foster care in place, to work on family reunification.
These are all crises we don't think that America needs or Denver needs. But we have to take the President at his word. We'll be prepared to provide those services, so that no kids are in danger, and if their parents get taken.
COLLINS: Denver Mayor, Mike Johnston, thank you. Please keep us updated, if you do see an uptick in activity.
JOHNSTON: Thanks so much for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. We have exclusive reporting, from inside the White House, behind-the-scenes, of the Trump move-in and take over of the West Wing, how quickly that happens.
Also, Trump tonight asked about that letter that President Biden left him on the Resolute desk. What he had to say.
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COLLINS: It wasn't long after President Trump sat down in his front- row seat at today's inaugural prayer service, that it became quite clear that neither he, nor his family, and Vice President, who were seated there, would be hearing the sermon that they expected to hear, after the Bishop spoke directly to him.
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BISHOP MARIANN EDGAR BUDDE: I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian and transgender children in Democratic, Republican and independent families, some who fear for their lives.
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COLLINS: After he returned to the White House, President Trump told us what he was thinking there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: --of the service?
REPORTER: What did you think of the--
REPORTER: What did you think of the service?
TRUMP: What did you think? Did you like it? Did you find it exciting? Not too exciting, was it? I didn't think it was a good service, no. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Press. Thank you, Press.
TRUMP: They can do much -- they can do much better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My inside sources tonight are:
Semafor's White House Correspondent, Shelby Talcott.
And Axios' Trump White House Reporter, Marc Caputo.
I mean Marc, I think I watched that three times of JD Vance's reaction, watching when he realized what was happening there.
MARC CAPUTO, TRUMP WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, AXIOS: From what I understand, he had said to his wife, Usha, Is she really saying this. As in, Vance was in disbelief, like, Am I really here? Is this happening? And indeed, it was.
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: I mean, all of the expressions, not just Trump's and JD Vance's. But you can kind of see it, where Tiffany Trump's husband is sitting there, he kind of looks over, Lara Trump looks over, like they're all kind of realizing that they're not just getting a sermon, they're getting a lecture.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Yes, everybody's expression, I mean, you could watch that like seven times, and look at somebody different each time, and you can see each of their expressions change.
And I talked to a lot of people, in Trump's orbit, afterwards, who were really shocked. And I think that is exactly what all of them were thinking, because this is historically sort of an event for national unity. And that speech was, was not that.
COLLINS: Yes, I think maybe they should have known, because the Bishop has been very critical of Trump before--
TALCOTT: Yes.
COLLINS: --especially over January 6, I believe.
But all this is happening as Trump tonight, was speaking to reporters, during this event, about infrastructure in AI, and the AI kind of race between nations. And he was asked about that letter that President Biden left him on the Resolute desk with the number 47 on it. Here's what he said was inside of it.
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TRUMP: Yes, he wrote me a nice letter. I mean, I did open it last night.
It was a little bit of an inspirational-type letter, you know? Enjoy it. Do a good job. Important, very important, how important the job is. But I may -- I think it was a nice letter. I think I should let people see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPUTO: They're going to be like pen pals, like writing each other.
It's a good example of how Joe Biden is an institutionalist, like, to the end. He writes him that nice letter.
Even though Trump winds up just totally trashing Biden at the inaugural speech. When Biden showed up -- or when Trump showed up at the White House, Biden said, Welcome home. It gives you a good idea of how Biden has approached this, in the presidency.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously leaving it, following that tradition.
Trump followed it in 2020, which was surprising, because he didn't follow so many others.
Shelby, tonight, though, the White House is getting to work, people are getting settled in their West Wing offices. You can kind of see there, they're starting to use the levers of that.
There's a memo that just went out to all agencies, from the Office of Personnel Management. Doesn't sound very exciting, but that office is actually vital in any White House, but especially the Trump White House. They've been the ones kind of making sure that loyal people are hired.
And they sent out an agency-wide notice to employees, informing them the closure of DEI offices in any federal agencies and asking employees, saying that, essentially, if they are employees of those offices, they are being placed on a paid administrative leave, effective immediately, as the agency takes steps to close and end all DEI initiatives, office and programs.
TALCOTT: Yes, and they also are directing each agency head to inform them if there are cases where the agency is trying to conceal the DEI program under a different line. They claim that that is something that they've heard has been going on. I haven't seen any evidence of that. But that is part of the notice as well, which is interesting.
But again, this is what Donald Trump said he was going to do. He said he was going to do it on the campaign trail. He did it on day one of this administration. And I think it just shows how quickly this administration is moving on what Donald Trump wants to do. And part of the reason they've been able to move quickly is because, unlike his first term in office, he has been here before, and he has hired people around him, who have been here before. And so, they are much more organized in a sense, than they were coming in 2017.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point in terms of everyone coming into the West Wing. I mean, you can see the transformation of the West Wing in the pictures, and in how they change things so quickly.
I think we have the before and after, of what that looked like, in terms of just moving everything in and out, those couches that were in the Oval Office, and changing those. I believe we have those photos.
Yes, you can see, how quickly this process happens in the physical aspect, but also in terms of what they prioritize and what this looks like. And cleaning house at DOJ, typically people who would not national security attorneys, who would be insulated from politics. A lot of that is changing already, within 24 hours.
CAPUTO: It's going to be wholesale, with the portrait of Milley was taken down, General Milley.
I think the national security apparatus here, if Mike Waltz, the new National Security Advisor, is to be believed, is going to see a lot of changes. I mean, he promised to Breitbart, a conservative publication, that they're going to be removing a lot of elements of the Deep State. And so, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
COLLINS: Yes, and what does that look like, in terms of just how far they are willing to go and take this seriously?
TALCOTT: Well, I think it's an -- you look at what Donald Trump said over the past two years on the campaign trail. And I think, based on day one, it's fair to say, if you go back and look at what he said on the campaign trail, that's actually what he plans to do.
So, he's going to get rid of DEI. He wants to make government smaller. He's talked about ending the Department of Education and bringing things back to the states. I think you're going to anticipate that all of those things are actually going to happen, and they're going to try to make that happen very quickly.
Donald Trump, only -- he knows he has one term left. So, he wants to get as much done as possible, quickly, while he has the trifecta in Washington.
COLLINS: How much of that is being orchestrated with Susie Wiles, his Chief of Staff?
[22:00:00]
CAPUTO: A lot of it. After the election, Susie Wiles, and the top level campaign staff, gave a speech to a venture capital firm, in Las Vegas. And one of the things she said to this group was, We only basically have two years to do the real, big, heavy stuff. So, they're hitting the ground running. COLLINS: Shelby Talcott. Marc Caputo. Inside sources. Thank you very much for being here.
Thank you all so much for joining us for THE SOURCE tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.