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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Six Aboard Crashed Medevac Jet In Philly Including Child Patient; President Trump Briefed On Philadelphia Plane Crash; All Three Black Boxes Recovered From Deadly Midair Collision. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

Voice of ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --Mary, what happens now? I mean, obviously, police on the ground, firefighters on the ground, putting out flames, trying to find victims, trying to find anybody injured that they can transport to hospitals.

And in terms of the actual investigation of the aircraft, that -- and that's already underway. They're going to try to get there, as quickly as possible.

Voice of MARY SCHIAVO, FMR I.G., U.S. DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION: They're going to try to get there, as quickly as possible.

They're undoubtedly gathering records. Fueling records, they will be gathering. Records on any maintenance on the plane, all the other stops of the plane, they're gathering those records.

But they won't be able to get on site until the firefighters, HAZMAT teams, persons, you know, rescue personnel, et cetera, until they're done. But they're already working, because they can get the records, and the records might be really important here.

Voice of COOPER: Our coverage of the Philadelphia plane crash continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Even as we are still searching for answers, tonight, about the deadly plane crash over the Potomac in Northern Virginia. We start with breaking news this hour, of a Medevac jet with a child on board, crashing near the Roosevelt Mall in Northeast Philadelphia.

The moment was caught on a Ring doorbell camera. I do want to warn you, before you see this, it's hard to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).

(VIDEO - MEDEVAC JET CRASHES NEAR PHILADELPHIA MALL)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Here's what we know so far about that moment. The plane went down in the middle of a packed neighborhood, with flaming debris hitting homes and businesses.

Now it's still early, as we are trying to gather information. The initial information that we have now may change.

But right now, according to the FAA, and updated numbers that they just posted, six people were on board this Learjet, when it went down. Compounding this tragedy, as I noted, the company operating the flight says it was an air ambulance, carrying two passengers, including a child patient, and an adult escort, and four crew members were also on board.

It appears to have crashed right after it took off from Northeast Philadelphia Airport. That's separate than the Philadelphia major airport. And federal officials say that the small plane was headed to Springfield-Branson National Airport, in Missouri, when something clearly went very wrong.

I want to get straight to CNN's Danny Freeman.

And Danny, we have just heard from a witness who saw this happen. I want to listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VADIM OSIPOV, WITNESS: I was in shock. I'm still in shock. Like, this is insane. Then--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are shocked too.

OSIPOV: Why can this -- and -- and before that, to be honest, in my mind, I thought like, what if the rocket would like -- because I'm from Ukraine, right? And there's war. There's always rockets coming in and stuff like that. And then I see, like, things flying. Like, no way, the war started again, you know? And you say it. You never know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The plane fell so quickly, he thought it was a rocket.

Danny, obviously, you know the Philadelphia area very well. Just tell us the latest that you're -- that you're learning.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And just to put a finer point on it, Kaitlan. I mean, this area, where this plane went down, Roosevelt Boulevard and Cottman Avenue, I mean, is a major thoroughfare, a major intersection in the area, in Northeast Philadelphia. Not surprising that we would hear such troubled sound from people, who live and reside and frequent that area, because there's a mall there as well.

But let me tell you exactly what we know at this point, Kaitlan. According to the FAA, this is a Learjet 55 twin-engine Medevac. It went down around 06:30 p.m. And as you noted, it was leaving from Northeast Philadelphia Airport. It's on the northeastern side of the city, as opposed to, like you noted, the major airport in the south part of Philadelphia. It was heading to Springfield-Branson National Airport in Missouri.

But according to flight data that was reviewed by our own CNN's Pete Muntean, the plane was only in the air for about 40 seconds, before it came plummeting down. And that's part of the reason why this video that we're able to show viewers is just so horrific, and stunning to watch. That speed of rate that that plane went down, so intense.

Now, local officials would not say how many fatalities there are, at this point.

But as you noted, we did hear, just in the past 20 minutes or so, from the company who's claiming the plane, Jet Rescue Air Ambulance, they put out a statement saying this was an air ambulance. There were four crew members and two passengers. And as you noted, one of those passengers was a child patient on that plane, and then that child's escort. The company said they cannot, at this point, confirm any survivors.

Now, I just want to also note. Philadelphia fire thankfully said that they have been able to put out fires in the area.

And while I said that the Mayor was not able to discuss any other number of injuries or fatalities, she was very clear in a press conference, again in the past 30 minutes or so, saying homes and vehicles in that area have been impacted. And she was really begging with the public, again, a very populated area there, please stay away from the area, because it is an active crime scene, and there's still a lot to sift through, after a plane went down there.

Kaitlan.

[21:05:00]

COLLINS: Danny, are these like row homes in this neighborhood area? What does it -- what does it kind of look like from -- we're seeing the pictures here, obviously, with the smoke in the background.

FREEMAN: Yes, frankly, Kaitlan, on one side of Cottman, there's a lot of row homes. On the other side, there are strip malls. There's a Macy's. There's McDonald's. There's Auto Parts. I mean, this is a truly busy area.

And that was -- I know that we heard from the former Police Chief of Philadelphia, Chuck Ramsey, in the past. That was one of the things that first popped to my head, when hearing that this was in the area of Cottman Avenue. Especially during rush hour, there will be a lot of cars in that area. So not surprising that we heard Mayor Cherelle Parker say that vehicles were impacted. But again, to your point, row homes certainly right in the area as well. We hope to get another update from Philadelphia officials, in the near future, to understand just what the scope of the damage was here.

COLLINS: Yes. Danny, keep us updated if you hear that they are going to do another briefing. I know she said the Governor, Josh Shapiro, is on his way.

CNN's Pete Muntean is also here. He covers aviation for CNN, has unfortunately been on display all too much this week, and that -- this subject and this issue.

And Pete, I know you've flown into this airport.

In terms of the air traffic control audio that we have. We have that audio available to just be able to listen to what was happening, as this was going down. Let's take a moment and listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATC: MedevacMedService 056 contact Philly departure 123.8.

PILOT: 123.8 MedService (ph) 056 Medevac. Thank you. Good day

ATC: Medevac Med Service 056 Northeast Tower contact Philly 123.8.

Medevac Med Service Northeast Tower.

Medevac Med Service 056 Northeast Tower are you on frequency?

PILOT: (another plane) Approach to runway 2 for what's going on down there?

ATC: Position 755 we have a lost aircraft. We're not exactly sure what happened, so we're trying to figure it out for now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: I mean, Pete, that silence is only a few seconds, but it seems to go on. What does it tell you that air traffic control did not seem to be hearing anything from this plane?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It's sobering, Kaitlan.

And one of the first calls there, you can hear the controller telling that flight Med Service 056, to contact departure. So that's a handoff from the control tower, the local controller to the Philadelphia Terminal Radar Approach Control facility, and that works the airplane up to higher altitudes.

And then the controller repeats that again, says Med Service 056 contact Philly. There's no response. And then you hear other pilots, sounds like chime in, and say What went on down there, and the controller saying, We've lost an aircraft. So, you have to feel for the controllers helplessly in the tower cab, watching this. There was not much they can do, as they were presumably watching what we have all seen from these dashcam and Ring doorbell camera videos, of this flight making what apparently seemed like a lawn dart-like descent into this Philadelphia neighborhood.

And I've looked at some of the flight data that is publicly available, from sites like ADS-B Exchange and FlightRadar24. It shows that this flight took off on Philadelphia Northeast Runway 24, that's to the southwest, pointing essentially towards the center city of Philadelphia, climbing to an altitude of about 1,650 feet, and then making an alarming rate of descent, a 11,000 feet per minute, according to the preliminary data.

Now, sometimes that granular data is not perfect. But it does show that this plane was making a terribly fast descent into the ground, and really matches up with the video that we are seeing.

One thing that I'm trying to figure out, from the video right now is, was this plane on fire? It seems that there was a bit of a glow from the plane, as it was descending towards the ground, and then, of course, the giant fireball that ensues afterwards.

Was that just the lights of the airplane? Was it the position and strobe lights and the landing lights of the airplane? Or was there something else amiss here? Was there a mechanical issue? Or did these pilots simply become disoriented in the clouds? The weather was particularly bad at the time of this incident, the cloud ceiling quite low, low clouds and rain and mist.

So something that investigators really will have to look at, and they have their work cut out for them. We can't confirm now, though. Just hearing now from the National Transportation Safety Board that they will be launching to this incident, to launch yet another huge investigation in barely two days' time, 40 or 50 of them have been on the scene here of this crash, just outside of Reagan National Airport.

COLLINS: And Pete, I do want to note that the President has been briefed on this matter. He just said, So sad to see the plane go down in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. More innocent souls lost.

Of course, as you noted, and Danny, the Mayor said no fatalities confirmed yet.

[21:10:00]

The President said, Our people are totally engaged. First Responders are already being given credit for doing a great job. More to follow.

We'll see what comes out of that briefing.

And the Transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, I know is tweeting about this as well.

Pete, when you look at that, though, and you see this. One, my first thought is, how stretched thin is NTSB going to be, doing these two major investigations, given what's happening in Washington, still.

And two, this flight was obviously going to be a lengthy one, if they were going from Philadelphia to Branson, Missouri. Does that -- what does that indicate about how much fuel would have been on board this plane?

MUNTEAN: There would have been a lot of fuel on board this plane, at the time of this crash, because it just took off. The capacity is quite large, in the three fuel bladders on board a Learjet 55 like this. And that means that it's just more fodder for there to be an explosion, and for there to be a fire. And we've seen that in the videos that have popped on social media and online.

The big thing here is, will the NTSB be stretched thin? And they do have the resources, thankfully, to do things like this. They're often pulled in multiple different directions. Although, of course, this is a yet another huge investigation, on the heels of what is the biggest, likely investigation that they have done -- that they've undertaken since 2009, when we had the Colgan air crash. That's the last fatal commercial airliner crash in the U.S.

The NTSB has always been under financial pressure. Of course, this just shows Congress that they need the money, to make sure that they are able to go at a moment's notice.

It is a sad and sobering reminder that the hangar that the NTSB launches from, there -- when they launch a Go-Team to something like this, is barely a quarter mile away from where I am, Hangar 6 here at Reagan National Airport. And it's really in the backyard of one incident, and in the backyard of the National Transportation Safety Board.

We never thought we'd be covering an accident, right in essentially our hometown, of not only the people who cover this beat, but the people who investigate these huge incidents.

COLLINS: Yes. Pete Muntean, just a sad note. But please keep us updated, this hour, as you're learning more about what's happening in Philadelphia. We're also going to check in, in Washington in a bit as well.

Right now, joining me is the former Philadelphia Police Commissioner, Chief Charles Ramsey.

And Chief, thank you for jumping on with me.

You heard from the Mayor, earlier, saying no confirmed fatalities as of this moment.

But what are you hearing? Because obviously, you're incredibly well- connected in the area.

CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there are some fatalities on the ground, unfortunately.

When you look at that one video that you've been showing, it looks like it's from a dashcam. That plane went right down on Cottman Avenue. And it's been mentioned before, Cottman Avenue is a major thoroughfare. It actually crashed right in the street.

And according to individuals that I spoke to, there are several cars in the lanes of traffic that are completely burned out. And just looking at that video, you can see that there was still a lot of heavy traffic, on Cottman Avenue, at the time of the crash.

So, it's very unfortunate. But they may not have numbers. But unfortunately, there are going to be some fatalities on the ground.

COLLINS: Yes, just to think of this happening, and going down in such a busy area. We -- already seeing the first responders arriving on the scene. We have new audio of -- these were the first firefighters to arrive there.

I want you to listen, Chief, to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're on location. Two story, end of the row. 16 x 45. Explosion. Got heavy fire in the dwelling. We have fire spread around across the street. Multiple vehicles. I'll give you a further report on access. All companies proceed in. Go in service.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Chief, what stands out to you from what you heard there?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it describes what we just talked about. I mean, from that fireball, not only did it impact vehicles on the street, it also impacted houses in the area.

My understanding from that same source is that some of the fatalities are from the houses that were across the street from the -- from the mall. Whether it was by fire, or fragments that obviously were probably in the air, when it the -- when the crash took place.

But unfortunately, this is going to go beyond just the six on the plane. So, my condolences to all the families, I mean. But this is -- this is really -- this is really bad for the City of Philadelphia. No question about it.

COLLINS: Yes, it's hard to see it. And just, of course, given the week that this has been, to see these images now happening in the middle of the city.

Chief Ramsey, we're going to keep watching this, obviously very closely. This is an area you know very well. As we are continuing to monitor these breaking updates on the ground in Philadelphia there.

[21:15:00]

As I noted, the Mayor says no confirmed fatalities yet.

You heard Chief Ramsey say he is hearing, from his sources on the ground, that there are several fatalities.

We'll continue to check in with our reporters there, after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Back with our breaking news, as we are following a plane crash in Philadelphia. It was a private plane, and the FAA says they believe six people were on board this aircraft that has crashed inside the city in Philadelphia, into the street.

I want to get straight to CNN's Danny Freeman.

Danny, what's the latest that you're -- that you're learning on the ground?

FREEMAN: Well, the latest that we're learning on the ground, Kaitlan, is actually something that you started to allude to, in your last segment with Pete Muntean.

[21:20:00]

We're just getting new information from the new Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, saying that he has now briefed both not only President Donald Trump, but also Governor Josh Shapiro as well, on what he knows from the FAA's perspective about this crash.

And you were talking with Chuck Ramsey about just how populated that area is. I was just looking again at the map in that specific area of, again, Cottman Avenue and Roosevelt Boulevard. There's that major strip mall there, the Roosevelt Mall, which a lot of people in Northeast Philadelphia, they would know very well. It's a mall that a lot of people in that area go to. That's where the Macy's is. The T- Mobile's there.

And to hear then Chuck Ramsey, of course, the former Police Commissioner in Philadelphia, then say that this plane may have hit right in the middle of the street there, during rush hour, on a Friday evening, it's just stunning and harrowing to hear in such a populated area, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, and that's the real concern, as we're seeing all these cars, traffic that was -- that was moving in and out of this area at the time.

Danny Freeman, keep us updated on what you're learning from officials on the ground.

Also joining me right now is CNN's Tom Foreman.

Tom, this was a Medevac jet, we are told, with four people on board. Four of them were believed to be the crew. Two passengers, we know one was a pediatric patient. What else are you hearing about this -- this air ambulance company?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This company, Jet Rescue, has been around for just over 20 years. It's based in Mexico City. It is licensed and insured in both Mexico and the United States.

And as part of its mission, they call themselves the premier provider of international critical care ambulance services from Mexico, Latin American, the Caribbean, the USA, Canada and worldwide, although they seem to be really focused in Latin America and the rest of the North American continent, a little bit of South America, apparently.

They had, before this accident, if their numbers are correct, at this point, before this accident, they had nine Learjets that they operated. And they were very clear about saying, they own and operate all their own planes. So, it wasn't a leasing situation from somewhere else.

And they build their planes as basically flying intensive care units, because they're transporting medical patients everywhere. And one of their specialties that they cited was the handling of pediatric patients. So sometimes just children, sometimes babies. But nonetheless, it's one of the specialties involved, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, it's just heartbreaking to hear.

Tom Foreman, as you hear more details, please keep us updated.

FOREMAN: Sure.

COLLINS: Also joining us is the former FAA Safety Inspector, David Soucie.

David, just when you -- when you see this, as we're watching these videos come in tonight, so many of them on social media, because this is such a crowded area, as Danny was noting, that we're seeing it from multiple angles, not just from that Ring bell camera, but also from dashcam and other people. It just speaks to how populated the area is.

What stands out to you, as of this hour, right now, based on what we know so far?

DAVID SOUCIE, FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, what's frightening to watch is the speed at which that aircraft hits the ground. Very few things that can cause that to happen. But it was a total loss of the control of the airplane. And it was shortly after takeoff, which gives you a lot of information. Icing can't build up that quickly, unless there was ice on the aircraft when it took off.

But I've worked on Learjets. I've worked on this model aircraft, the Lear 55, a lot, as a mechanic in my early career. And there's some unique things about that aircraft.

But this Jet Rescue is very experienced in operating them. They've got a lot of them. There's only about a 140, 150 of these airplanes remaining out in the fleet. And they're reliable airplanes, they're very good airplanes. But any Learjet actually is a high speed, high performance aircraft, and it takes a lot of care to fly them. So when things go wrong, they go dramatically wrong, and that's what happened here, it appears. Either a loss of control of the aircraft. A stall situation can occur to cause that aircraft to go down that quickly in that short span.

But we'll find out more as it goes along. It's too early to speculate as to what happened. But it's just so horrific to think about that aircraft going in, at the rate of speed that it did, directly down.

COLLINS: Yes.

SOUCIE: There was no -- no hope of survival, I don't think.

COLLINS: I mean, Pete Muntean said it was only in the air for seconds, for about 40 seconds before this happened. And you saw how quickly it was coming down.

Can you just describe to us, given we have been focused on what happened with this passenger plane in Washington and the collision, what is the size of a Learjet? How would you compare that for someone who never been on one before?

[21:25:00]

SOUCIE: Well, it's about the size as one of those stretch limousines, if you think of it that way. It's not a large aircraft. It's -- only houses nine people.

It is what they categorize as a large commercial airplane, because of the fact that it's over 21,500 pounds at takeoff. So, that's kind of a demarcation. So, when it's over 21,500, there's a lot of different rules. There's rules about how many pilots need to be in the aircraft. But it can handle up to nine passengers in the right configuration.

However, in medical configuration, which it sounds like it was in, transporting a patient, it would have only been able to carry the six that were in there, because you have the stretcher on board, and you have the aircraft equipped for that. So that's about how big it is.

It's a small airplane. You can't -- you can stand up in it, because there's a kind of a coveted-out area, where you walk. So, you can stand up in a 55. A 35, you couldn't. But a 55, you can. And it's, for me, I'm a tall guy, and I have to arch over a little. But it's pretty cramped quarters.

It's a small tube-like fuselage. It tapers back in the back as well, for the tail and for the engines, where the engines are mounted. So it's -- it really, it looks a lot like a military aircraft, because it's made for speed and it has swept wings.

It has winglets that go up on the ends of it that we call it a longhorn, because it came out as a Longhorn series, which that was because of the fact that you have these huge winglets on the end of the aircraft wing.

COLLINS: And when you said--

SOUCIE: And so, it's--

COLLINS: When you said, David, you were talking about how powerful and how fast a plane like this is, and you said, when things go wrong though, they go really wrong. What did you mean by the opportunity or the potential to stall out? What does that -- what would cause that, if that happened?

SOUCIE: Well there's a couple of things--

COLLINS: If that happened, and we don't know, I should be clear.

SOUCIE: That's a really good question. So, there's a couple of things that you watch for on that particular model -- model of aircraft. In the training and in the training manuals, they talk about it a lot.

And you have to be cautious about which fuel tanks you fuel first and where your fuel loads are. You have to manage -- every Learjet, you have to manage that fuel load. There's a 10 -- there's a fuel cell on the tail and the back side of the aircraft. Then there's in the wing as well.

Now the wing is, as I mentioned, it tapers back. So as the fuel comes out of that wing, it changes the weight and balance of the aircraft, or where the center of balance of the aircraft is. And that can make it vulnerable to stalling. It can make it vulnerable to a long runway. You have to make a long runway to take off.

And the fact that it was going as long as it was. This aircraft has about a 2,300-mile range, when it's full, and it can go quite a long distance. So that's -- if it's full and ready to go, is heading to Branson, which is quite a long flight, so I'm sure it was full of fuel.

Where you get into trouble with that aircraft is if you try to conserve on fuel, and don't carry as much, and then you can end up putting too much fuel on the tail, and not enough in the wings, so that can change that fuel, that weight and balance, to put it back on the air -- on the tail of the aircraft.

But, again, I'm not saying that's what happened here. I just say that this aircraft is somewhat unique, in the way that you have to pay very close attention to the weight and balance, how you load the aircraft, whether you put all the bags in the back, in the front, how you balance that aircraft.

And clearly, Jet Rescue is experienced at that. They've flown many Learjets. They've flown them for years, with a great safety record. And so something unique, very unique, happened with this particular flight that we'll find out more as we go.

COLLINS: Yes, David, that's really helpful, to lay that out, as far as this plane goes, and what that looks like.

We are waiting to learn more information about what led to this crash, and of course, what is happening on the ground. We're going to continue to check in on that.

More on what is happening in Philadelphia, tonight. I'm going to speak to a former Air Force firefighter, after a quick break.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: And we're following breaking news, this hour, with more on the plane crash tonight in Philadelphia. We are told it was a Medevac jet that had six people on board, including a child patient. It crashed very quickly, after taking off in Philadelphia tonight.

My guest tonight is a former FAA safety inspector, who just told us that very few things cause these kinds of disasters, for a plane like this, a Learjet, saying, When things go wrong, they go really wrong.

I do want to note that we are hearing from the two senators in Pennsylvania, saying that they have been briefed.

Also, the Governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, we are told, is on the way to Philadelphia. He spoke to the Philadelphia Mayor, earlier this evening. We heard from her earlier.

And I want to get straight to my next source tonight. Ed Kelly is the General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters.

Ed, thank you for being here.

Can you just tell us what it's even like to respond, in a sense like this, where, as Chief Ramsey was laying out, it's a very crowded area, a very crowded city where this plane went down.

ED KELLY, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS: Yes, Kaitlan, thank you for having me. And obviously, our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families, right now.

The Philadelphia firefighters actually struck three alarms for this, which brings about a 150 firefighters. They also declared a mass casualty incident, which brings about 10 ambulances and the paramedics that we also represent in Philadelphia.

When you have these jet crashes, any fire doubles in size in every minute. When you add an accelerant, it obviously accelerates the fire. With jet fuel, it's a particularly hazardous flame -- flammability to it.

So, we had multiple row houses burning in Philadelphia. I've been talking to the firefighters on the ground there. It did affect rescues when they got there. So, some of the people who were trapped in those buildings were saved tonight by the Philadelphia firefighters. We had one Philadelphia firefighter that was injured.

[21:35:00]

And it's an unfolding scene. Anytime you have those jet fuel incidences, you also need special types of firefighting foams to actually try to contain it as well.

COLLINS: Yes. And what does that -- you know, how readily available does a City Fire Department have that?

Because obviously, this was a plane that was taking a trip that was a 1,100 miles, based on what we were told, from Philly to Branson, Missouri. And obviously, there's a lot of fuel on that plane.

Is this something that every fire department has typically? What does that look like?

KELLY: Well, all airport fire departments, which Philadelphia is in charge of, Philadelphia Fire Department protects the airport. That particular airfield, where that plane took off from, I am not sure if they're affiliated with the Philadelphia airport. But those -- our airport crash rescue crews always have a large capacity foam on hand, for jet fuel fires.

In the field, in city fire departments, some engine companies are designated as foam companies that bring that capacity with them to certain incidents. This Philadelphia Fire Department in particular, I'm not a 100 percent sure exactly how they structure their foam response. But I know that tonight, they did a tremendous job, trying to contain that fire from burning the whole block down.

COLLINS: What does that look like when they get on the scene immediately, in terms of if a house is on fire, but there's jet fuel everywhere, like, what do they do first in that situation?

KELLY: Well, oftentimes, when these jets crash into crowded neighborhoods, which happens from time to time, the first two apparatus don't always understand that it was a plane crash. A lot of times it just it's -- looks like a massive explosion. Usually have fire rapidly spreading to multiple buildings, cars usually burning, which was the case here in Philadelphia tonight. You saw that in some of the video.

So the first objective is to save lives. So the first companies in are going to be looking at those buildings, and seeing what is searchable in the buildings, where they have fire that has not extended, say, into that second floor that you just showed. They're going to go in and try to search that. They're going to get lines in place, hose lines in place, to try to cut off that fire. It requires a lot of personnel, as soon as you can get them in, to try to contain that fire.

And Philadelphia is a very aggressive Fire Department. And tonight, they were -- they were able to get, as I said, three alarms, about a 150 firefighters on scene, and rapid response, and were able to contain that fire before it burned the whole block down.

COLLINS: And we're obviously so grateful for that quick work.

I know you mentioned one firefighter had been injured in this situation. What else have you been hearing, from the crew on the ground? KELLY: Just that it's an unfolding incident. I'm not sure exactly how many people were lost.

I'm sure that when you -- in an incident like that, where it's in a neighborhood, they won't know right away, exactly who was just happened to be walking by, if someone was in the cars that were hit. So, there still have to be an extensive search done for victims. So, there's still a lot of work to be done.

And as I said, the Philadelphia firefighters did an incredible job tonight.

COLLINS: Yes. Ed Kelly, grateful for your expertise. Grateful for their work on this. Thank you very much, Ed Kelly.

KELLY: Thank you, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Also here with me tonight is former airline pilot, Daniel Bubb.

And Daniel, it's just, it's horrifying, to put it bluntly, to see these images, to see this happening, after every night this week. We've been talking about this collision that happened in Washington, where so many lives were taken.

DANIEL BUBB, FORMER AIRLINE PILOT: Yes.

COLLINS: You obviously are incredibly trained in this area. What was the first thing that you were focusing on, when you heard this story?

BUBB: Sure. Kaitlan, thank you for having me.

I really had three potential thoughts, when I saw this. And some, your colleagues pointed out earlier. But the thoughts I had was looking at the angle at which that aircraft impacted the ground told me that it potentially was in a stalled condition, where the pilots could have possibly gotten disoriented, and stalled the plane.

Also, because it is a Life Flight plane, they were carrying a pediatric patient, I'm kind of wondering about the oxygens, if they had oxygen tanks that exploded.

We obviously will have to wait and find out what the NTSB says. Hopefully, they'll be able to recover the black box and the cockpit voice recorder, which will provide the exact details that we need.

So, those are the main things that I -- came to my mind.

COLLINS: When you say the pilots may have gotten disoriented. What do you mean?

BUBB: So sometimes, what can happen is, if the pilots aren't paying attention to the instruments, you're looking outside, and it's -- it clouded over, you can get disoriented, in different ways, and you might have different body sensations that you interpret to be one thing, whereas the instruments will tell you another. [21:40:00]

So, it looks like the weather was in not really favorable conditions, which means that the pilots hopefully were following their instruments, and trusting their instruments. But it could be possible that somehow they got disoriented. Maybe there was some sort of mechanical failure with the plane, which put it into a stalled condition, to where it impacted the ground at the angle that it did.

COLLINS: If they're disoriented, in terms of -- because it is dark and rainy in Philly. This happened about 06:30 p.m. is when we first saw the alert of this, Eastern Time tonight. What does that look like? Is that -- where the instruments are telling them to do one thing, but they decide to do another? I mean, when you're up there, and it's just two of you, how does that -- how does that work?

BUBB: I mean, you certainly want to follow the -- I'm sure, they were flying what we call IFR, Instrument Flight Rules. So you have a departure that you're supposed to fly, what they call a SID, a Standard Instrument Departure, with very specific instruction, specific headings, altitudes, talking to air traffic control.

It's very busy, particularly when you're flying in busy airspace, and you have a lot happening. And especially in bad weather, makes it even a little bit more challenging. So, you really have to be on top of your game, when you fly it through instrument flight conditions.

COLLINS: Does it tell you anything? We listened to the audio, earlier, from -- with air traffic control, where they were saying to the Medevac flight, Do you have us? Do you have us? It didn't seem like the controllers were hearing anything back from this. I mean, you mentioned the cockpit voice recorder.

BUBB: Yes.

COLLINS: What does it tell you when you -- I don't know if you heard that audio, and we can play it for you if you didn't. But what does it tell you if they were hearing nothing back?

BUBB: It tells me that there was something very serious happening, something very catastrophic.

Because unless the pilot was distracted, doing something else, usually pilots are going to reply fairly quickly. Particularly, if they need to read back instructions, if they need to change to a different radio frequency, they're going to do that pretty quickly.

And like I said, I realize that flying in those type of instrument meteorologic conditions, it's going to be busy. But still, usually you get a pretty quick response. So, that tells me that something very serious was happening, right at that moment.

COLLINS: Yes, it's just it's hard to see. And we're waiting for more information from officials on the ground, maybe another briefing, potentially soon.

BUBB: Yes.

COLLINS: Daniel Bubb, thank you for--

BUBB: Yes. Yes.

COLLINS: --coming on to talk about this.

BUBB: Yes, you're welcome. Thank you for having me.

COLLINS: And up next. We are getting new details from the NTSB, on the deadly collision that happened in Washington, this week. There's a lot of information being gathered, at this moment, from air traffic controllers. Interviews are underway with those who were on duty. Also, there are new discoveries in the investigation.

We'll have the latest for you, after a short break.

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, we have a brand-new update from the NTSB on the deadly collision in midair, near Reagan National Airport, as all three black boxes have now been recovered in total, from the American Airlines plane and the Army Black Hawk helicopter.

Officials also say that extensive interviews of the air traffic control personnel have started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD INMAN, NTSB BOARD MEMBER: We will go back and look at any air traffic controller that was involved in this. We'll go back and look at their past probably 72 hours, even two or three weeks. We'll look at their training, their hiring, everything. What they probably ate that day? What job functions they were doing? Were they being combined?

Controller that was working at the time has been interviewed, and his interviews are ongoing throughout the day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: CNN has obtained new videos showing this moment of the midair collision. I just want to warn you, what you're about to see is disturbing. It's from angles that we did not see before, where a fireball explosion happens midair, as the helicopter makes impact with the plane.

(VIDEO - CNN EXCLUSIVE: VIDEOS SHOW NEW ANGLES OF DEADLY D.C. CRASH)

COLLINS: It's hard to watch that, of course, as we are seeing all of this that is under investigation, moments exactly like that.

But also, as you just heard there from the NTSB official, what happened in the aftermath and what happened before that occurred. I want to get more on what it's like inside the air traffic control tower tonight, with my source, S. Todd Yeary, a former air traffic control specialist.

And it's great to have you here.

Because this investigation is very much still underway. But given what we do know so far, tell us what this could look like behind-the- scenes, especially an interview with the person who was on duty that night. We know they were doing the jobs of two people. But what does this look like in this moment?

S. TODD YEARY, FORMER AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SPECIALIST: What it's is really just to retell what happened, right?

You're telling the story of what happened at the beginning of maybe that portion of the shift. You're responding to the questions of the investigators. You're really just kind of giving a kind of from a first-hand view, really, of what has occurred from the perspective of the controller, on the position, in the tower.

It happens after any sort of incident, where you have had a loss of separation standards, where there will be a review and an interview to try to determine what happened, and ultimately determine how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

COLLINS: Yes, and of course, we don't know that air traffic control did anything wrong here. I mean, that is the point of this investigation, to figure out what went happened -- what happened, to your point to make sure it doesn't happen again.

For people who have never been in air traffic control. Can you just describe what it is like to be up there, how stressful it is, in that situation?

[21:50:00]

YEARY: Well, the stress, there's a baseline stress, and then there's the situational stress. As you've been covering the incident in Northeast Philadelphia, right? Something as immediate and spontaneous is what we've seen this evening, can raise the stress level, exponentially, without any warning.

What we saw at Reagan, in terms of the stress level, is you have what appears to be a relatively procedurally routine night.

And from some of the audio that I've heard, there was an expectation in the instruction of giving traffic, to the Black Hawk helicopter that they identified, that they had seen the regional jet. They were giving position, distance, direction and altitude.

And then the Black Hawk pilot, as I understand it, requested authorization to maintain visual separation, meaning that it would steer clear of the flight path of the regional jet. That, of course, unfortunately, did not happen. And so, when that happens, when you follow the procedures, and you've given the instructions, and something catastrophic happens spontaneously, the stress level goes up.

But I think what you've also heard in the tapes is that there's the follow-up call, where you now have to mobilize emergency equipment. You now have to give position, tell folks what has occurred, what are the aircraft involved? And then that's what you see, and have heard from the controller in the tower.

COLLINS: Todd, I got to -- thank you for that.

I do want to go now to Philadelphia. We're hearing from the Governor of Pennsylvania and officials. They are walking up to give another update on the plane crash that has happened there, that we have been following tonight, in the middle of this city.

You see Governor Josh Shapiro, right there, surrounded by officials. The Mayor of Philadelphia also joining him. Let's listen in

MAYOR CHERELLE PARKER, (D) PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you all again, for joining us. I want to give a quick recap of the information we shared earlier, and then we will give you some additional facts.

An aircraft went down in the vicinity of Roosevelt Mall on Cottman Avenue, and it did occur shortly after 06:00 p.m. Again, we have no reports on the number of fatalities. So, we are asking everyone for their thoughts and prayers, for all who may have been impacted and affected by this tragedy.

Several dwellings and vehicles were also impacted. And so, we are urging people, particularly those families who live in the surrounding area, to please stay home if possible. If you see any debris, and those who are conducting the investigations have repeated consistently, please do not touch anything, because it is still an active investigation. Just call 9-1-1, please, if you see anything.

Investigators and all of our federal, state and local partners are working, as expeditiously as possible, during this very difficult time.

New information that we want to share with you, that shelter is now available at the Samuel Fels High School, located at 5500 Langdon Street. Samuel Fels High School, 5500 Langdon Street. If anyone has been impacted, and you need shelter and support, it is readily available for you.

In terms of our federal and state partners, I want to say a special thank you to the NTSB. They are here on site now. The FAA. The Pennsylvania State Police. Pennsylvania DEP. Of course, our police and fire departments and OEM.

I am here with Governor Shapiro. We've been in constant contact since it started. You'll be hearing from him shortly.

But I also want to say a special thank you to our additional partners, who we have spoken with, our federal leaders. U.S. Senators Fetterman and McCormick, thank you so very much. All hands on deck. They wanted to make sure any and everything that we needed from the federal government, those supports and services, are available.

Congressman Evans, Boyle and Scanlon, our congressional delegation, a special thank you to each of you for your support.

I also need to affirm that locally here, Senator Joe Picozzi, Rep. Solomon, Reps Neilson, Dougherty, who represents this area, and Bellmon. Our Commissioner Deeley, and Councilmember Driscoll was present.

If there was ever a time, when we needed to affirm what the One Philly philosophy means, the time is now. And I'm very proud about how our federal, state, and all of our local partners, are working hard to deal with this tragedy.

[21:55:00]

I now want to turn it over to our Governor, and to say thank you, Governor, for your support, and being here with us this evening.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Thank you, Mayor. Thank you.

The Mayor preaches about One Philly. She talks about a unified approach to governing, every day.

What you're seeing here is a unified response to an awful aviation disaster. For as awful as that aviation disaster was, tonight we also saw the best of Philly. We saw neighbor helping neighbor. We saw Pennsylvanians looking out for one another.

I want to reaffirm the comments the Mayor said, about all of the different agencies working together. And I want to especially thank and salute Philly fire and Philly police, who did an extraordinary job, this evening.

We know that there will be loss in this region. And we want to offer our thoughts and our serious prayers, for those who are grieving at this moment.

The Mayor knows, and I want you all to know, that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania stands firmly with our partners in the city. We have, at the request to Commissioner Bethel, 45 state troopers who are on the ground, right here in Northeast Philly.

We have 25 members of our PennDOT team, who are here right now. We have members of the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Authority who are here, including our Director Randy Padfield, who joins me behind here.

We also have members of DEP, the Department of Environmental Protection, who are here to make sure that any hazardous materials are addressed.

And as you heard the Mayor reference, we're joined by several state representatives and senators. I want to thank them. They will make sure that whatever is needed for this community gets to this community.

I also spoke, earlier this evening, with the United States Secretary of Transportation, Secretary Duffy, who offered his full support to Northeast Philly. And as the Mayor alluded to, he has dispatched four members of the FAA to Philly, and there are four members of NTSB on their way as well.

We have all the resources that we need. And again, as the Mayor always says, One Philly, we are unified in our approach to deal with this emergency.

And again, I'll just end by sharing my prayers, the prayers of my wife, Lori, our first lady, and on behalf of 13 million Pennsylvanians. We are all here for Northeast Philly tonight, in this very, very difficult moment.

Thank you, Mayor.

PARKER: Thank you all. When we have additional information to report, we will come back and give another briefing.

But now, we want to let our federal, state and local partners do their jobs, and go to -- and go to work. We'll report back to you, when we have more information. Thank you all so very much for your patience and understanding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

COLLINS: You have been listening to the Mayor of Philadelphia, and the Governor of Pennsylvania, on that plane crash that we saw happen tonight, in that city, where a private jet carrying what we know was a child patient on board, among several others, crashed in the middle of the city in a very busy area.

The Mayor still unable to confirm any fatalities on the ground. Though, she did say several homes were affected, and set up a shelter for those to go to if they need that.

I want to note, joining me now is, the Virginia senator, Tim Kaine.

And Senator, it's remarkable that we had you booked, to talk about the air collision that happened in Washington, this week. Now we are following very quickly what is happening in Philadelphia tonight.

But on what happened outside D.C., you're one of the first people I thought of, because you had warned repeatedly about congested airspace, and what that looked like, and you had warned it to your colleagues. Do you think, after what happened this week, that your colleagues are listening now?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Kaitlan, I sure hope so. I've been warning about this for years. And until last year, I've been able, with others, to successfully keep my colleagues from jamming more flights into this most congested airspace in D.C.

But last spring, I was unable to be successful. There was a near collision on the runway at Reagan National. But still, right after that, colleagues voted to add even more flights.

Reagan National is an airport that was built for 15 million passengers, in and out every year. It's now at 25 million, and that is just the traffic into the airport. That doesn't include military flights, VIP flights, other government flights. The helo flight was an example.

And so, I do think people are now aware. I was pleased that the Secretary of Transportation, today, issued some orders to limit helo flights in this zone.

[22:00:00]

But there was an incident, a couple of days before the fatal crash, of a close interaction between a passenger jet and a helo. At that point, President Trump had pushed the FAA Administrator out. I think the agency was without leadership. There's a lot of questions for the NTSB to answer in this investigation.

COLLINS: Yes, there was no permanent head at the FAA or a deputy, or at TSA, or a deputy. We know there's an acting head at the FAA, now.

Senator Tim Kaine, I have a lot more questions for you, on this. Unfortunately, we came up against that press conference, tonight. I hope you'll come back and join us. Thank you for your time tonight.

Thank you all so much.

KAINE: Look forward to it.

COLLINS: I appreciate that.

Thank you all for joining us. The breaking news will continue with "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."