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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: Musk's Next Targets Are Spending At The Pentagon, Education, "Just About Everything"; Japan PM Compliments Trump: "Very Sincere And Very Powerful"; Homeland Security Secy. Arrives At Guantanamo Bay. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 07, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: -- OK. Are those lyrics feud- worthy in your mind?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I think there's more to it than that.
ENTEN: You think there's more to it than that?
COOPER: Yes.
ENTEN: Who do you side with in the feud?
COOPER: I mean, I'm not taking a side in that. Although I'm looking forward to the Kendrick Lamar performance.
ENTEN: I am as well.
COOPER: Yes.
ENTEN: And most people think he won the feud.
COOPER: Well, that's what I read.
ENTEN: That's what I read as well.
COOPER: Harry Enten, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.
COOPER: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. Have a good weekend.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
President Trump sets Elon Musk on a new target, the Pentagon, rapidly expanding his scope as he seeks to slash the federal budget, while the young members of his team tonight are facing new scrutiny.
The President also confirming to me his plans to fire FBI agents, in his words, as quickly and surgically as possible. And it's Mahomes versus Hurts, Kendrick versus Drake. And Harry versus Cari? You're going to want to see our Super Bowl pregame that we have coming up.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening from New York, where I am just back from a very busy day in Washington, where President Trump held a news conference with the new Japanese Prime Minister.
I questioned the president on several hot-button issues, yielding some revealing answers, particularly on Elon Musk, and where his next target might be, as he and the elusive DOGE team are tearing through the federal government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Have you directed Elon Musk to review Pentagon spending, given it's the biggest discretionary spending in the federal budget?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, I have Pentagon, Education, just about everything, we're going to go through everything. Just as it was so bad with what we just went through with this horrible situation, we just went through, and I guess 97 percent of the people have been dismissed. It was very, very unfortunate. You're not going to find anything like that, but you're going to find a lot.
And I've instructed him to go check out Education, to check out the Pentagon, which is the military, and you know, sadly, you'll find some things that are pretty bad. But I don't think proportionally you're going to see anything like we just saw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, it is worth noting that Musk has received his own contracts from the Pentagon, over the last decade. So, how he approaches the spending there will certainly be something that we keep our eye on.
The President today was also asked whether he had any red lines when it comes to Musk and his work with DOGE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything you've told Elon Musk he cannot touch?
TRUMP: Well, we haven't discussed that much. I'll tell him to go here, go there. He does it. He's got a very capable group of people.
They're finding massive amounts of fraud, abuse, waste, all of these things, so. But I will pick out a target, and I say, Go in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That sounded like a no, to many people in the room.
The open question, of course, being, does Musk answer to anyone, including the President? Today's new cover of Time magazine captured that question in an image, depicting Musk sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.
The only check so far, at the moment, appears to be the courts, which have been acting a lot. The latest ruling, tonight, temporarily blocking at least 2,200 USAID workers from being put on forced leave, hours before the directive. That judge who made that ruling? A very conservative Trump appointee.
And the decision came shortly after this show for the cameras of the agency's signage being ripped off of the headquarters, as you can see what happened here in Washington today.
My source tonight to start us off is Vittoria Elliott, who has been reporting extensively on Elon Musk, and what his DOGE staff is up to inside the federal government.
And President Trump is hosting Senate Republicans at Mar-a-Lago, right now. He just was talking about Elon Musk's team, and said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He started with a group of 25 super-geniuses. They wore undershirts. They were -- they looked like. I mean, I look at them, I said -- but then I realized, he's got an 182 IQ.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You have reporting about how people inside the Treasury are viewing that very differently, in terms of what they're there to do.
VITTORIA ELLIOTT, POWER AND PLATFORMS REPORTER, WIRED: Yes. So, I think it's really important to note that people inside the Treasury are, you know -- anyone in those positions are apolitical jobs. They're not people, who are attached to any administration. They're career civil service. So, for them to be concerned about this and to be speaking, really, to people like me at all is a big red flag.
And their sense is very much that having the DOGE representative that they had in Treasury, coming in and, from what we understood, the ability to change the code within the system, as well as read it, was an incredible security threat. And their threat intel analysis basically called it possibly the greatest insider threat they've seen.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: And now, he has essentially put the person, who was seeking that initially, and feuding with a lifelong Treasury employee. This woman had been there for decades. That person is now in charge.
ELLIOTT: So, the person that we're specifically referencing was the 25-year-old DOGE engineer. The person that you're referencing, which is Krause, is definitely in charge, yes. COLLINS: And so, when you look at this, in terms of who is making up the team, we're learning more about them. And there has been some frustration. You were talking last night about how some of them don't even want to reveal their full names to the government employees they're talking to.
There is a 19-year-old, who's on the team, who we've now learned was fired from an internship that he was doing, for leaking internal information to -- about the company, proprietary information, to a competitor. That was years ago.
But, how are they kind of viewing the sense of who is actually on this team?
ELLIOTT: Well, so to be clear, that person was not necessarily involved in Treasury. We've had him show up at OPM, the Office of Personnel Management, which is sort of the HR function of the government, and the General Services Administration, which is in charge of all the real estate holdings and deals with its IT systems and stuff.
And I think that is particularly -- that he was a particularly worrying presence to those people, even before this was revealed, just because they were seeing him show up in meetings, they didn't know who he was, in some cases, logging in with a non-government email address.
And there's all these questions about the kind of access these people are being granted, and what they're going to do with that. And so if nothing else, this sort of extra information is only more concerning. And experts who spoke to my colleagues at WIRED said that someone with his background would likely not be given the level of clearance, and access, that he seems to have.
COLLINS: And what stood out to you when you were listening to Trump being asked about this today, because he was -- he was -- the question was, really, they can see Social Security numbers, home addresses, all this private information. Why do they need to be able to see that to reduce federal spending or improve efficiency?
And Trump said, It doesn't, but they get it very easily. I, quote, I mean, we don't have very good security in our country, and they get it very easily.
ELLIOTT: Yes. I mean, that is incredibly concerning.
And, at the worst-case scenario, experts, that we've sort of talked to in our reporting, have said that there is potential to be able to target people, businesses, especially when you have the levers of the Treasury, where you're dealing with an entity that pays out Social Security checks, that cuts any form of payment almost coming out of the government, that that could be weaponized in an incredibly scary way to target people.
COLLINS: And what have you heard about the 25-year-old staffer, who they found this account that had a pseudonym, that had made all of these racist comments, promoting racism and eugenics. He resigned, yesterday, after The Wall Street Journal went to the White House with this report.
Elon Musk tweeted today, essentially, Maybe we should bring him back, asking people. And then, confirming, after that press conference today, he will be brought back.
ELLIOTT: I mean, I think, you know -- I think, this seems, frankly, a little bit like a distraction. I mean, obviously, the political leanings of someone who's deeply involved in our government are important, particularly when they're unappointed, and they haven't gone through, seemingly, the traditional process of vetting. And perhaps, had this person been a regular employee, these things might have come up.
But I think the bigger issue is not so much, obviously, what he has or has not been posting on social media. But the fact remains that we know so little about these people, and they have such deep access to really, really sensitive systems of the government.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, he was posting a lot of this, months and weeks ago.
Vittoria Elliott, great reporting. Thank you for that.
My political sources are also here at the table tonight. S.E. Cupp and Jamal Simmons.
This back-and-forth that was caused by the 25-year-old. Ro Khanna was tweeting at JD Vance today, when he was saying, essentially, Give this kid some grace. He said, I disagree with his views, obviously, but he said, We shouldn't reward journalists who try to destroy people because of stupid social media activity, and it should ruin his life. I say bring him back. If he's a bad dude or a terrible member of the team, fire him for that.
Ro Khanna responded and said, Are you just going to tell him to apologize for saying, quote, "Normalize Indian hate" before this rehire? Just asking for the sake of both of our kids.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, that was a really interesting exchange between Ro Khanna, who is Indian, and JD Vance, who married an Indian. They both have Indian children. And this guy was specifically targeting Indian -- Indians with his racist tweets. So that was really interesting.
But the dig-in by JD Vance, and the dig-in by Elon Musk and Trump, is seeming to reward the cruelty.
I don't want to cancel and ruin people's lives either, and I hate cancel culture.
[21:10:00]
But this person didn't ask for forgiveness. This person didn't explain themselves. So, bringing him back is rewarding the racism in particular. Because they're not rewarding his ability. We don't know who this kid is or what he can do. They're rewarding the cruelty. And it's just such a terrible message.
He resigned. It seems like either he had the right idea, or someone said to him, This is untenable, you should probably just step aside. And MAGA wanted him back, because nothing is disqualifying anymore. Nothing.
COLLINS: What did you make of this Jamal, seeing all this happen?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CO-HOST, TRAILBLAZE PODCAST, FMR. DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN: You know--
COLLINS: Because this was in the middle of the press conference, today. Trump was asked about what Vance had said. And JD Vance was sitting right there, and Trump, Trump asked him, Did you -- did you say he should come back? And Trump said, Well, I agree then.
SIMMONS: Yes, it's concerning. And it gets to the question you have about cruelty. It's concerning and distressing, because here you have somebody who has gone after -- who said pretty vile things on Twitter, but -- recently, I mean -- or not on Twitter, but on social media, but recently, just in July.
Look, people have had questions about things I've tweeted before. But they were years ago in the past. And when you get caught saying something that doesn't represent your views, you say, I'm sorry, that doesn't represent my views. That's not what this young man is saying. And it just happened in July. I think that's the thing that's concerning.
And so, now we have this question for me. I ask, What's going to make the United States more competitive? What's going to make sure that we're not going to have a corrupt government?
And what they're doing, right now, with the DOGE team, looks like it is taking the United States out of the leadership position in the world, and out of the -- out of the business of taking care of America's leadership position in the world. That, to me, is much more concerning about what they're up to at the DOGE.
COLLINS: Well, and with Trump saying today, that he is going to start with the Pentagon next, that he has directed him and given him the authority to go there.
That was kind of an obvious question, and why did DOGE didn't start there. I mean, if you look at the federal budget, the Pentagon has the most--
CUPP: The most.
COLLINS: --discretionary spending.
CUPP: Yes.
COLLINS: But how does this work for someone like Elon Musk, who is policing his own conflicts of interest here, and has gotten $3.5 billion worth of contracts from the Pentagon in the last decade or so? CUPP: And subsidies, let's not forget, and subsidies for SpaceX and Tesla.
Yes, the conflicts are very concerning. No one should be allowed to self-police. But the conflicts are not concerning to the top of the Executive, I guess.
And listen, I'm a -- I'm a conservative. And I'll remind people what that looks like.
SIMMONS: Yes.
CUPP: People who want to lower the debt and the deficit. People who care about fiscal, fiscal responsibility.
SIMMONS: Strong national defense?
CUPP: Strong national defense.
And so, I love the idea of, I'm a starve-the-beast conservative. I love the idea of shrinking the size of the federal government.
But the way to do it is to be organized, to let people know in advance, Here's what's going to happen. We're going to look at all of these departments. You'll have eight months to sort of decide, what we're going to do. And if we're going to lay off, we're going to give you notice.
I mean, there's a way to do it that is both legal, which we don't think is happening here, and also for the betterment of these departments and the country. Slashing the FBI and CIA does not make us safe, does not -- does not help our national security. So listen, there's a way to do this right. I'm not against all of it. But they're not doing it that way.
COLLINS: But can we--
SIMMONS: And listen and then--
COLLINS: Can we talk about transparency on this, though?
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: Because Elon Musk has been one of the biggest proponents of transparency. He was even saying, a few months ago, Unless it's related to, like nuclear secrets, everything should be made available as soon as possible, so people can know what's going on.
James Comer, a top Republican on House Oversight, the top Republican, was asked about how he thought DOGE was operating, and this is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Elon Musk is being very transparent. He's tweeting multiple times a day, about what -- what thoughts he's having, different aspects of the federal government he's examining, and things like that. I think as long as he's being exact -- being transparent, I think that, you know, that eliminates a big part of what the Oversight Committee is about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMMONS: Yes, we don't know what these guys are doing over there, right? We don't know what they're copying. We don't know what they're seeing. There are questions about whether or not they're actually looking into the code that's happening. We don't know who they're going to decide to pay, who they're not going to decide to pay.
Apparently, they've just closed the U.S. Trade and Development Agency, USTDA, which is something that we go into developing countries, and we
find opportunities for American companies, to go and do work and make money. And they're shutting that down because DOGE wants to stop its action right now. I just don't know how this makes America stronger.
COLLINS: We'll see.
S.E. Cupp. Jamal Simmons. Great to have you both here.
Up next. Speaking of Elon Musk, he is not stopping just at government efficiency. A U.S. prosecutor says that he has given the DOJ a list of people to investigate. This inquiry that we are trying to figure out more about today.
[21:15:00]
Also today, at that press conference, I asked Trump about his intentions for the FBI, and the agents who were assigned to work on the January 6th cases.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Are you planning to fire the FBI agents who worked on those investigations?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: On the heels of Elon Musk urging the Department of Justice to investigate anyone who is, in his word, impeding DOGE's work. The acting U.S. Attorney in Washington, D.C., is vowing to chase them to the end of the earth.
More on what exactly we are hearing from Ed Martin, and his new inquiry, in a moment, and why his announcement was so unusual today.
[21:20:00]
But also, during that press conference, I questioned President Trump on the long list of FBI agents' names that was just turned over to the Department of Justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Your FBI has turned over a list to the Justice Department of the FBI agents who worked on the January 6th rioters' cases. Are you planning to fire the FBI agents who worked on those investigations?
TRUMP: No. But I'll fire some of them because some of them were corrupt. I have no doubt about that. I got to know a lot about that business, that world. I got to know a lot about that world, that we had some corrupt agents. And those people are gone, or they will be gone, and it will be done quickly and very surgically.
COLLINS: Are those the ones who worked on the January 6th--
TRUMP: Did you have a question for the Prime Minister?
COLLINS: (inaudible) are those the ones who worked on the January 6th--
TRUMP: Talk up.
COLLINS: Are those the ones who worked on the January 6th investigations?
TRUMP: I don't know. I don't know. I know we have some that are very corrupt, and we don't like it.
We're going to bring back the reputation of the FBI. Kash Patel is going to do a great job, and we're going to bring back the reputation of the FBI, which has been hurt very badly, it's been devastated over the last four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is the former Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.
And Andrew, just first, let me get your take on what you heard from President Trump there.
Because this has been this battle that's been playing out between the acting FBI director and the acting Deputy Attorney General, over this list of the agents who had worked on the January 6 investigations, whether it was interviewing people, or testifying in court.
What did you hear in that answer from Trump there?
ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Kaitlan, I heard the basic -- Donald Trump's focus, in all of this, is revenge, and he doesn't care who or how it happens.
He's now got, likely in his hands, or in his staffers' hands, a list of 5,000 FBI agents. There's nothing surgical about how you're going to go through a list of 5,000 to come up with a couple.
He talks about people he knows are corrupt. But we've never heard a single allegation of misconduct against a single FBI agent, relating to the investigations of the January 6 attack, or the Trump investigation.
So, how you go from a list of 5,000 FBI employees, none of whom who have been -- have been officially accused of any misconduct, to guaranteed firings? That's a -- that's a really great question.
We can only assume that they'll do some sort of review of that list. I mean, who knows, based on political affiliation, donations to political parties that are now in disfavor, statements on social media. But none of this is consistent with the way the FBI disciplinary process works, and the -- and the due process that -- rights that are due to each of these employees.
COLLINS: Yes, and a lot of those January 6 rioters pleaded guilty.
But on all of this, what we're also watching play out, the letter that I was referencing there, from Ed Martin, he's the acting U.S. Attorney in D.C. -- or he's the U.S. Attorney in D.C.
And he was -- basically published this letter himself that he sent to Elon Musk, where he was saying that there was a referral of individuals and networks who, quote, "Appear to be stealing government property and/or threatening government employees," referring to the DOGE employees.
One, have you ever seen an announcement like this into an inquiry? I mean, this isn't -- there's nothing about evidence here, or a case that's being brought, or anything like that.
MCCABE: No, I've never seen anything like this before.
You're right. There's nothing about evidence or predication for an investigation. The only thing we have here is a pledge, by the acting U.S. Attorney, to chase these people, whoever they are, we don't know who they are, to the ends of the earth.
It is very common for the Department of Justice, for U.S. Attorneys Offices, or DOJ main, or the FBI, for that matter, to receive information from the public. People send in information that they think other citizens have been engaged in criminal activity, and they want to bring it to the Department's attention. Congress does it all the time, right? Letters from Congress to DOJ.
But the Department never indicates a prejudged conclusion. They never say, Oh, we're going to throw these people in jail, or convict them all. They simply say, Thank you for the information. We'll take a look at it.
All of those kind of hallmarks of fairness and kind of judicial temperament are absent from the acting U.S. Attorney's letter. I think it's really concerning. It kind of reeks of a rush to judgment.
COLLINS: Yes, it was a remarkable letter.
And then, also tonight, we learned from President Trump himself, as he posted on Truth Social that he's removing former President Biden's access to classified information. [21:25:00]
This is traditionally a courtesy, where former Presidents get to keep their access. Biden did revoke Trump's, he said, in part, because of January 6th and the documents investigation.
But Trump, here in his post, he's not even pretending to disguise why he's doing this. He made clear, it's payback.
MCCABE: That's all that matters to him, Kaitlan. It's just straight- up, You did it to me, I'm going to do it to you. It's kind of predictable. I'm not really surprised by it at all.
Part of the reason that presidents typically extend the courtesy to former Presidents is to keep the door open for the occasion that a president might want to talk to a former President, and just bounce ideas off them, or get their perspective on an issue. The idea of that happening between these two is inconceivable.
So, I'm not surprised by it at all. But again, it's the same basic motivation from our current President, and that is payback and retribution.
COLLINS: Andrew McCabe, thank you for your time tonight.
MCCABE: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Coming up. A remarkable moment, in the East Room, as the Japanese Prime Minister was asked, what was his first impression of President Trump. His answer was quite revealing.
My White House insiders are next, after what has been a dizzying few weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mr. President?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump.
COLLINS: Mr. President, just to follow up on what you were saying about the Gazans leaving Gaza. Who do you envision living there?
TRUMP: People living there. The world's people.
COLLINS: I've just learned what kind of employee Elon Musk is here, inside the federal government. He's what's known as a Special Government Employee.
Did he pass a background check, do you know?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know about the security clearance, but I can check.
COLLINS: How did the call with Trudeau go?
TRUMP: Very good.
COLLINS: Are you still doing the tariffs?
TRUMP: It went very good.
COLLINS: Are you still doing the tariffs tonight?
TRUMP: Watch.
COLLINS: Secretary Noem, can we ask you a few questions here, please? Would you guys gaggle with reporters for a few moments?
I'm Kaitlan Collins. I'm inside the East Wing of the White House right now. And if you look over my left shoulder, you can see the portrait of President Barack Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back home (ph).
COLLINS: Feels good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: I was in the East Room, at the White House, today, during the press conference between the Japanese Prime Minister Ishiba, and President Trump.
The two leaders met face-to-face, for the first time, in what the Japanese side was viewing as a high-stakes meeting, given Trump's personal relationships with other world leaders often dictate his foreign policy towards their country.
In a telling moment, the new Prime Minister described what it was like to meet Trump, as you can see nearby, the U.S. President was smiling from ear to ear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIGERU ISHIBA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): For many, many years, I have watched him on television, so it was quite -- I was so excited to see such a celebrity on the television, to see in- person. On television, he is frightening, and he has the very strong personality. But when I met with him, actually, he was very sincere and very powerful and with strong will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, the Japanese leader said he wasn't trying to suck up to Trump when he said that.
But as we have seen before, flattery certainly helps, especially when Trump has not ruled out tariffs on Japanese exports, and the future of a major U.S. steel manufacturer hangs in the balance.
My deeply-sourced White House insiders join me now.
Marc, I mean, this is actually something that Ishiba's predecessor, Shinzo Abe, was so good at. It's cultivating this really--
MARC CAPUTO, TRUMP WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes.
COLLINS: --strong relationship with Trump, whether it was golfing, or having cheeseburgers or whatever. It really worked. Trump is still close to his widow. She was at Mar-a-Lago, a few weeks ago.
What did you make of seeing that and hearing that today?
CAPUTO: Well, Ishiba said that he wasn't trying to flatter Donald Trump. I guess, it just came naturally. But in the end, the result is the same, is that this is the way in which you get along with Donald Trump, to your point.
It's not only the steel issue. The fact that Ishiba is a little bit weaker in his country than his predecessor, Shinzo Abe, was. They don't want Donald Trump to raise more concerns about them spending more money on defense, which could be problematic at home. So, Ishiba became to Washington with one general mission, is get on Trump's good side, and then the second mission was stay on it. So, we'll see how that goes.
COLLINS: Yes, Trump gifted him a picture that they took today, of the two of them together, at the beginning of that press conference.
Sabrina, can I ask you about some breaking news that we're getting, this evening, that is a bit of a surprise move, at least, certainly to the official who was just removed from her post. That's the Archivist for the United States. We are learning, tonight, that she has been removed from that position, she's going to be replaced.
Now, the National Archives, obviously, was at the forefront of the news after Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club was raided by the FBI, when he did not give back classified documents. This is not the person, who was in charge and running National Archives at that time. But we're hearing tonight, that she was shocked when she was notified, today, she was being removed from this position.
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think that's the most shocking part of this, Kaitlan, is, she was not the person that was in charge of the Archives at the time. So, this is not something that's like a direct Oh, clearly, Donald Trump is going against someone, who has been on his bad side, historically.
But he has been openly critical about the National Archives in the past. So, he has hinted in the past that he would be replacing the Archivist. I think the shock is, of course, the timing.
[21:35:00]
But as we've seen in the last three weeks, Donald Trump is wasting no time to purge Washington, of people that he doesn't believe are going to be loyal to his administration, and people that he doesn't feel are going to serve his mission. And she just fits that as well, even if it's a shocking Friday night news dump.
COLLINS: Yes. Marc, what did you make of that? Given Trump has been fixated on the National Archives. We saw his team asking for all of his -- all of the documents that were taken during that search back. They haven't gotten them, despite that case being dropped. I mean, this has obviously become a very sore subject for him.
CAPUTO: It is. I think the ultimate sore subject for Donald Trump is Joe Biden.
She was appointed by Biden, she's got to go.
He just replaced the head -- the two Biden appointees, the Kennedy Performing Arts Center -- Kennedy senator -- Kenny -- Kennedy Center, pardon me, Karine Jean-Pierre and Mike Donilon, who were also Biden appointees.
So, right now, he's sort of in his Pharaoh or his Pharaonic stage, where he is just going through the temple and removing any hints and any signs of his predecessor and just striking it from the historic record. Whether it's his executive orders, his executive actions, or the people he's appointed to these various agencies.
And for Donald Trump, it's sort of double revenge. Not only is he getting these Biden appointees out. But in 2021, Biden canceled or fired one of Trump's appointees to the Social Security Administration. So, in Trump's view, a turnabout and then making it even worse is fair play.
COLLINS: Yes, Sabrina, just -- and also the most notable part of the Kennedy Center gutting, that happened tonight, where Trump is basically gutting the existing Board of Trustees, but also, the Chairman himself, David Rubenstein, who -- I was at the Kennedy Center Honors, in December or November, whenever they tape. And he had just signed on to another four years, I believe. He was going to retire, but then ultimately decided to stay on, because of the work that they were doing.
Now, Trump is saying that he is appointing himself as the Chairman of the Kennedy Center Honors.
And I just -- Sabrina, what is your view of this, in terms of what this is going to look like, and what is driving this. Is it just payback, as Marc was saying there?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean, I think payback is certainly part of the calculus here. But this feels like one of those that Trump is excited about. I mean, this is where, Trump, the entertainer comes in, Trump, the person who loves the performance around this. He already has posted saying, The best is yet to come for the Kennedy Center.
I think he felt slighted during his first term, did not attend the Kennedy Center Honors. There was different performers that were honored there that had said they would boycott if Trump attended. So, I think, for him, of course, there's the personal element of this and him getting to have this triumphant comeback.
There's this story of him, now in Washington, having the command in the room. And for him, the Kennedy Center is going to be a piece of that, something that he gets to kind of enjoy touting, being a part of now.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what that looks like with him as the Chairman.
Sabrina Rodriguez. Marc Caputo. Great to have you both. Thank you.
CAPUTO: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to take a new look at the administration's actions, when it comes to housing migrants in Guantanamo Bay. Obviously, that's where suspected terror detainees have been held. The Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, is about to arrive any moment. We'll take you live to the ground, next.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Breaking news this hour, as Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, has just landed at Guantanamo Bay.
CNN has obtained satellite imagery, showing an array of new tents that you can see here being constructed at the U.S. base in Cuba, over the last few days. You can see them on those red boxes here on your screen. This is the construction which is just the latest step, in Trump's plan, to detain as many as 30,000 migrants, at the infamous facility that imprisoned the suspected terrorists after 9/11.
In fact, The New York Times reported, this week, that the Trump administration is actually holding 10 migrants in the very same cells that once held the men who were accused of being in the Al Qaeda terror group.
My source tonight is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.
And Elie, this is happening in part because they do not have enough room--
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes.
COLLINS: --to put all of the people, the migrants that they are arresting, in beds in the U.S. So, this is this plan they came up with. From a legal perspective, how does this work?
HONIG: So, I think we're at the beginning of what's going to be a very long and consequential legal battle. And the best example is what you just mentioned, which is the decision that was made by the Bush administration, shortly after 9/11/2001, to house enemy combatants, foreign terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. Now, that decision was made for two reasons.
Number one, it's close to United States' soil, about 400 miles from Florida.
But number two, more important, legally, it's not the United States. It's not our soil. And it's long been a piece of constitutional doctrine that when a person is physically on United States soil, he has more constitutional rights, more due process rights. So, that was a decision made, intentionally, to lower the amount of due process and rights that those enemy combatants were held with. And that resulted in years' worth of litigation.
And the most important decision out of all of that was in 2008, where the U.S. Supreme Court, very close decision, five-to-four, held that an enemy combatant held in Guantanamo does have some constitutional rights, does not have zero rights. The Supreme Court said it's not like a light switch where, when you leave American soil, you have no rights. They said, You do have basic rights to contest the terms and the basis for your detention.
So, we could be heading down, I think, a very similar road here.
COLLINS: Yes, so how does that work if--
HONIG: Yes.
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: --the Tren de Aragua gang that are -- that are being held there?
HONIG: Right. So, this would be different, because now they will be held under immigration auspices, by ICE, by DHS. And so -- but what I think will happen, and we've already started to see the beginnings of this, is there will be interest groups. ACLU was important in the prior litigation. I think they're going to be involved here.
And these groups, on behalf of the people who are held, they're going to start doing two things.
One, they may contest the conditions and say that these are improper conditions. They don't comply with the Eighth Amendment, against cruel and unusual punishment. I don't know that that's going to get anywhere.
But then they're going to say, We have a right to contest our being held. We have a right to appear before some sort of judge or a fact- finder. We have a right to argue that we're being wrongly held.
So, I think we're going to see a repeat of similar types of arguments, just in the immigration context, rather than the terrorism context.
COLLINS: What about in terms of where specifically they are being held?
HONIG: Yes. COLLINS: Because these 10 that are being held there, they're particularly violent, is part of what I was reading, was the reasoning why they are being held in those exact same cells. They didn't feel comfortable holding them in the tents that they are constructing.
Because essentially, Guantanamo Bay doesn't have the space to hold 30,000 people. I was talking to Tom Homan, the border czar, about this--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --at the White House. They're going to have to kind of construct that facility, to make it a place where they can hold this many migrants.
HONIG: Yes. And that image that we saw in the beginning shows that they are real about this. This is not just talk.
Generally speaking, the federal government is going to have very broad discretion about where and how to hold these folks. If you look at the way that we've been handling this, over the last several years, as you said, there are something like 42,000 migrants in DHS custody, right now. About 38,000 of them have bed space.
Usually what happens is DHS essentially rents space in local and county jails. We have a bunch of them in New Jersey, where I live, where that's happening. It's all documented in public. And sometimes, they house these migrants in private prisons.
But I think all indications on the reporting are it's going to be way more expensive, like multiples more expensive, to house these individuals at Guantanamo Bay. But that's a security decision that's firmly within the executive realm.
COLLINS: More expensive, because they're having to fly them there, and to change the facilities?
HONIG: Exactly. I mean, I think -- you know, it's 400 miles away, you have tighter restrictions, as opposed to renting a wing of cells--
COLLINS: In Texas.
HONIG: --at Essex County jail--
COLLINS: Yes.
HONIG: --or something like that, yes.
COLLINS: Overall, as you're looking at how the Trump administration is shaking out, in round two, we're kind of taking a bigger temperature of where we are right now.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: And with Trump today talking about what DOGE is trying to do with USAID. I mean, we were literally watching them take the letters, off the building, as Trump was talking about Elon Musk's efforts.
We're seeing the courts step in tonight, and say, Actually, these 2,200 USAID employees can't go. And we're seeing it with all of the other orders as well, including with immigration.
What do you make of how we've watched this play out?
HONIG: It's a good Friday-night reflection after a chaotic week.
I think we're at a crossroads, right now. Because Donald Trump has dominated the legal landscape for the last eight-plus years. But most of that has been focused on Donald Trump's own individual troubles, right? The investigation by Mueller, the impeachments, the congressional inquiries, the grand juries, the indictments, the trials. We've been there through all of it. That's all essentially over now.
And now, what we've seen, really, kicking into high gear, this week, is a focus on Donald Trump's policies, which I think will have a much bigger impact on the United States, writ large.
We've seen this week. We are going to start down the road, over the next several years, of deciding how do we handle immigration, how do we handle citizenship, how do we fund our government? Which of our agencies will stand? Which of our agencies will fall? How do we handle our military affairs?
All of these things are going to end up working their way through the courts. We saw the very beginnings of that this week, in the trial courts. But a lot of these things are going to end up at the Supreme Court, and I think they're going to redefine the way that our government works for the immediate future.
COLLINS: Yes, huge impact--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --in all of this.
Elie Honig, thank you for that, and for everything.
HONIG: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And speaking of Elie Honig, his little bias for this next segment, will be up (ph). But we are on the cusp of Super Bowl LIX. President Trump is going. Taylor Swift's boyfriend, who happens to be the Chiefs star, Travis Kelce, has some thoughts on that. We'll tell you what he had to say, right after this.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, and the former first lady, Jill Biden, will all be there to watch the Kansas City Chiefs take on the Philadelphia Eagles, in less than 48 hours from now, at Super Bowl LIX.
Another guest also will be making history on Sunday. President Trump. He's going to be the first sitting President to ever go to the Super Bowl.
Here's what the Chiefs tight end, and also Taylor Swift's boyfriend, Travis Kelce, had to say when he was asked about the President's trip to the Superdome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS KELCE, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TIGHT END, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE: That's awesome. It's a great honor, I think, you know, no matter who the president is. I know -- I'm excited because it's the biggest game of my life, you know? And having the President there, you know, it's the best country in the world, so it would be pretty cool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And Harry Enten and Cari Champion are here with me, two of the greats of sports.
ENTEN: Ah.
COLLINS: Harry, I was kind of surprised--
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: --to realize a president has never -- a sitting President has never gone to the Super Bowl before.
ENTEN: Well, I was so interested in this, for any number of reasons, I was interested. Number one, has like a sitting President ever been to an MLB World Series. And only one, George W. Bush was, back in 2001, right? So, this isn't actually that unusual that you wouldn't have a sitting President attending a major sports event.
[21:55:00]
But I also just want to note how different this is than from Trump's first term, right, where he was at war at the NFL, right?
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
ENTEN: It was too woke, especially on racial issues, not standing up for the national anthem.
And now, all of a sudden, he's simpatico with the NFL. It's come full circle, right? It's almost back to the days, where he nearly bought my Buffalo Bills, and I got my Steve Christie jersey, on right here.
CHAMPION: Oh God, bless him.
ENTEN: RIP Buffalo Bills 2425.
CHAMPION: God bless him with the Buffalo Bills.
ENTEN: I'm trying.
COLLINS: I know.
ENTEN: I'm trying.
CHAMPION: God bless this man.
COLLINS: Trump was--
ENTEN: I--
COLLINS: Trump was complaining today about the kickoff of how the NFL does it. Well I didn't know -- I'm the college football girl, so I don't know what he was saying.
ENTEN: Oh, you're--
CHAMPION: But listen, here's what I -- there are a lot of things that he was -- he was talking about. And I want to go back to what you just said. Now he's simpatico.
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: And we're talking about all the things that are happening. I love the way Travis was like, Any president. I think he was like--
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: --Great, any president would be great.
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: Everyone's just trying to steer clear of any drama. They want to have a good time.
Over/under that Taylor Swift shakes hands with the President when she meets him, over/under?
ENTEN: Ooh. Ooh. I will say that there is under a 50 percent chance.
CHAMPION: OK. Over/under?
COLLINS: I don't know.
CHAMPION: Does she stand on business, because she put up the cat lady post.
COLLINS: I don't know.
CHAMPION: Said she was with Kamala.
You don't know? You don't have -- over/under?
COLLINS: I don't know. Are they going to come into each other's vicinity?
ENTEN: I think it would be the -- it would be the--
CHAMPION: It would -- it would be amazing.
ENTEN: Oh, it would be the greatest moment--
CHAMPION: It would be amazing.
ENTEN: --in like pop culture combining the politics. I mean, it's the moment that Trump would dream about, with that.
CHAMPION: And then he'd be like, she told me she made a mistake, I'm sorry.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes.
CHAMPION: And so yes, I accept you.
That's going to -- and it would spark another round of conversation.
COLLINS: And it would then spark another round of like, back-and- forth.
CHAMPION: It would be amazing. But I think they're smart about it.
COLLINS: OK. But speaking of back-and-forth. As someone from Alabama, I have a personal obsession with this back-and-forth that's been going on this week, where Trump in the East Room, earlier this week, was saying that Tommy Tuberville, now a Senator, used to be Auburn coach and other schools as well, coached -- or recruited Patrick Mahomes or something.
Just watch this, how this has played out this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And Tommy Tuberville, a great coach.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: You know, his quarterback was named Mahomes. He was a great college coach.
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Well, I never even coached him. What happened is, I recruited him, and then I left and went to another school. But I've got to be very good friends with him.
PATRICK MAHOMES, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL QUARTERBACK, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE: He did not recruit me, at the time. So, I don't -- I don't remember if I ever got to meet him or not. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean.
CHAMPION: Wait. This is real life.
ENTEN: Yes, this is real -- it's, the whole thing is just so ridiculous.
Oh, this happened, actually.
No, it didn't happen.
CHAMPION: No, but the way in which it's all being said, Kaitlan, is my favorite, because it's like that he had -- Mahomes and Tommy.
And then here's Tommy, Senator Tuberville, And he was a great kid to recruit.
Actually, I don't think.
And it's just no one's breaking character.
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: They're staying like very professional. It's not a big deal. Never met him.
ENTEN: They so don't want to get into a fight with Trump--
CHAMPION: Yes.
ENTEN: --or the Republican Party.
CHAMPION: Correct.
ENTEN: It's just--
CHAMPION: Correct.
ENTEN: That's really what this says.
CHAMPION: Correct.
ENTEN: They're being very polite and taking, I dare say, the high road.
CHAMPION: Yes.
COLLINS: But is it a fight to just acknowledge that like something didn't happen?
CHAMPION: Well, he -- they did. But they did it in a way in which that you don't say that that's not actually true. He was like, Well, you recruit a lot -- he came back and said, You recruit a lot of people way before they remember. ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: I probably talked to him when he was 10. I don't know if he remembers, you know? You're one--
ENTEN: There's the truth and then there's their truth.
CHAMPION: Right. Right.
COLLINS: OK. Speaking of the truth, Kendrick Lamar is going to be performing, at the halftime.
CHAMPION: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, this -- I went to the Super Bowl for the first time, last year. It's so crazy to watch it. There's a halftime show in- person, as opposed to, like, seeing it, because it's made for TV. It's made for everyone who's watching around the world.
What are your expectations for the halftime show?
CHAMPION: I'm going to the game.
COLLINS: You're going to be there.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: Jealous.
CHAMPION: Yes.
ENTEN: I'm boycotting, maybe.
CHAMPION: You can--
ENTEN: Go on.
CHAMPION: He's boycotting.
ENTEN: I'm one of--
COLLINS: Yes, it makes--
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: So you didn't have an invite?
ENTEN: No, I did not -- I did not -- no, I didn't have an invite. You didn't invite me along. What is that?
CHAMPION: Just kidding. We're joking. She's still debating. No.
I'm expecting a really great performance. I think everyone's waiting to see if Kendrick Lamar will sing the song that really put him on the map, in terms of what are we thinking about -- thinking about now, the diss track, "Not Like Us." We have been told Drake tried to get it stopped from being played at the Super Bowl. They did it at the Grammys.
It was just really a very interesting -- this is an interesting time because there's so much -- there's so many beefs that are happening while we're there. We got Dr. Jill Biden, and then President Donald Trump. And then we have maybe or not Taylor Swift and President Donald Trump. But we have Drake and Kendrick. And there's just so many different things happening. And I just want to see a good game. But I'm expecting him to perform that song, and I'm expecting it to be really special.
ENTEN: I--
CHAMPION: It'll be a story.
ENTEN: I just want to note -- I know very little about this feud, so I actually wrote out some cue cards for myself. Apparently, Kendrick Lamar, "Not Like Us," feud with Drake.
CHAMPION: Feud.
ENTEN: My understanding is that Kendrick Lamar, according to the polling, won that rap feud with Drake.
CHAMPION: That is absolutely correct. And it was very much--
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: --it was very much a West Coast situation versus someone who lived in Toronto, if you will. And so, he won.
ENTEN: Of course.
COLLINS: OK.
ENTEN: I got to root for America on that one.
COLLINS: Can I ask the most important question before we're done? Who is going to win? Who are we rooting for?
CHAMPION: I'm rooting for the Eagles.
[22:00:00]
ENTEN: I am one of the 51 percent of Americans who, to quote, Stephen A. Smith, We don't care. We don't care.
COLLINS: You don't care?
ENTEN: No.
COLLINS: Come on.
CHAMPION: You don't want anybody--
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: You don't want to see anyone not win?
COLLINS: Jalen Hurts.
ENTEN: I will vote for both not to win.
COLLINS: DeVonta Smith.
ENTEN: I root for Philadelphia, because of Karen Bronzo (ph), because of Joe Williams (ph), and because Alabama has so many players on the Eagles.
COLLINS: It's a serious Alabama roster.
ENTEN: There you go.
COLLINS: All right. We'll see what happens. We're rooting for the Eagles.
Harry and Cari, thank you both.
Thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
