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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump's DOJ Finally Finds Prosecutor Willing To Drop Adams Case; Vance Slams European Allies In Blistering Speech; White House Indefinitely Bans AP From Oval Office, Air Force One. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 14, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --thank you so much for joining us tonight.
We have a quick programming note, before we hand things over. This weekend, be sure to tune in for the new CNN Original Series, Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, a fresh look at the mysterious circumstances behind the deadliest terror attack, on the United States, until 9/11. The first two episodes premiere this Sunday, at 09:00, only on CNN.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Seven resignations and several days of drama later, the Trump's Justice Department has finally gotten its way. That motion to dismiss the case against Eric Adams has just been filed. The question now, what will the judge do in this situation?
Also, the shockwaves that were across Europe, tonight, as the Vice President, JD Vance, lashed out at U.S. allies, in what was a fiery speech that stunned the diplomats in the room.
And the makeover that is underway at the White House. Trump's mug shot is in. Jackie Kennedy's Rose Garden might be out.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, we start with brand-new reporting on how the White House is viewing the crisis that's unfolding between the Justice Department and the Southern District of New York. More on that in a moment.
But this all is happening, tonight, as that motion is now in, where the Justice Department has officially asked a judge to drop the corruption case against the New York City mayor, Eric Adams, after the Justice Department's number two who, until a few weeks ago, was serving as President Trump's personal attorney, finally found someone who was willing to do it.
But that wasn't before seven senior officials, and top prosecutors, decided to quit rather than carrying it out.
It was the seventh resignation that might have been the most searing today, with the lead prosecutor on the Adams' case, Hagan Scotten, going full scorched earth, to the acting Attorney General, Emil Bove, writing, and I'm quoting him now, "Any assistant U.S. attorney would know that our laws and traditions do not allow" us "using the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials... If no lawyer within earshot of the President is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool, or enough of a coward, to file your motion. But it was never going to be me."
In the end, Emil Bove did find someone, as sources tell us that he convened a group of prosecutors, this morning, to give them an order. Pick someone, really, anyone, to file this.
Those career prosecutors from the Public Integrity Section then met. They talked about their options, we're told, including a mass resignation. But ultimately, they coalesced around picking someone to end this remarkable standoff that has been playing out in the public this week.
That is welcome news for Mayor Adams, who spent his morning, doing a joint television interview with President Trump's border czar, on Fox News.
It's important to remember here, before you listen to what they said, that Adams and his legal team were accused, by the first prosecutor who resigned in all of this, of offering to help with Trump's immigration crackdown, in order to make his case go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NYC, NY): That's quid pro quo. That's a crime. It took her three--
STEVE DOOCY, FOX & FRIENDS CO-HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: That is quid pro quo.
ADAMS: --she took -- it took her three weeks to report in front of her a criminal action?
DOOCY: Right.
ADAMS: Come on. This is silly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Adams flatly denying that the acting U.S. Attorney, Danielle Sassoon's claim there, I should note.
But moments later in that interview, Tom Homan went on to make what seemed to be a friendly threat, if Adams doesn't cooperate with the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM HOMAN, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BORDER CZAR: If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York City.
AINSLEY EARHARDT, FOX & FRIENDS CO-HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Yes.
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX & FRIENDS CO-HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Right.
DOOCY: Listen--
HOMAN: And we won't be sitting on a couch. I'll be in his office, up his butt, saying, Where the hell is the agreement we came to?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Bit of awkward laughing there.
I should note, for his part, at the White House, President Trump, who I remind you, met with Eric Adams at Mar-a-Lago, right before he took office, says that he had nothing to do with any of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I don't know about it. I mean, obviously I'm not involved in that.
I know that they didn't feel it was much of a case. They also felt that it was unfair with the election. Look, I would know that better than anybody, because I was weaponized more than any human being in the history, probably, of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And I should note, we have new reporting tonight.
That is how Trump feels about this, distancing himself from what happened.
But we're hearing, from several people, familiar with what's been playing out, over the last few days, that all of this drama that has surrounded the decision to drop the Eric Adams' case, but really what has come after that is being viewed inside the White House as an unwelcome distraction.
Now, a lot of officials there have no problem with the dismissal of the case itself. They weren't really that surprised by it, after seeing how Eric Adams was trying to ingratiate himself with Trump after he won the election. But the negative headlines, and the fallout of this, have prompted concern, internally.
[21:05:00]
We've also learned more about that meeting that the Acting Deputy Attorney General, Emil Bove, had with the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, this morning. A person familiar with the meeting tells us that Bove was combative and condescending, as he was lecturing the Public Integrity lawyers about leadership and loyalty. A lot of questions about what's coming next here, and what's going to play out with this, as we are seeing a remarkable fight happen between Main Justice in Washington, and the Southern District of New York.
I want to get straight to my legal sources to start us off.
Elie Honig is a former federal prosecutor for the Southern District of New York.
And veteran attorney, Renato Stabile, is here.
I mean, just looking at this moment, and where we have come here, in terms of the administration starting. Attorney General Pam Bondi is in Munich. Emil Bove is acting as the Deputy Attorney General, running the department. I don't think that they thought they were going to find themself in a huge standoff with SDNY in their first few weeks in office.
RENATO STABILE, ATTORNEY: No, of course not. And it's extraordinary. Because remember, Emil Bove, comes from that office. I mean, he's worked with some of them. They're colleagues of his.
And now, it's sort of like, it feels very personal when you read these letters. There's like this personal animosity coming through. I don't know if there's a chip on somebody's shoulder. But it's an extraordinary turn of events.
COLLINS: Yes, the letters have maybe been the most remarkable part, because they are downright scathing between each side here, Elie.
ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, these are people, as Renato says, who all sort of came up together at the SDNY, as I did.
This has been a complete train wreck, the way that Emil Bove and DOJ has handled this. I would be furious if I was his boss.
There would have been so many better ways to do this with causing so much less dissension. Number one, Bove could have just looked at this case, and said, I've examined this case. Take more than a week or two, take a little time and say, I've looked at this case very carefully, I've concluded the evidence is too thin, the legal theory maybe doesn't apply, therefore, we're going to dismiss it.
We would have been debating that, fairly, one way or the other, but it would not have been this kind of all-encompassing scandal.
Or, of course, by the way, Donald Trump also could have just issued a pardon. We would have criticized that pardon.
STABILE: Yes.
HONIG: But it also would have saved DOJ--
STABILE: Well--
HONIG: --a heck of a lot of damage.
STABILE: Yes, that would have been the easiest thing. And look, we read the motion that was filed, this evening, on the motion to dismiss that was signed by Emil Bove. It's only like three pages long.
HONIG: Yes.
STABILE: I mean, he doesn't lay out all the arguments that he lays out in his longer letter.
COLLINS: But would a judge be aware of everything that's been going on? I mean, that's what the judge is going to see.
STABILE: Sure, at this point, yes.
COLLINS: But, like, did they take this into consideration, the letters, and the resignations, and everything?
STABILE: Oh, I think the judge is going to be taking everything into consideration, and I think there're going to be some very uncomfortable hearings taking place where Judge Ho is going to be asking a lot of very pointed questions to the prosecutors, who are going to take over this case.
COLLINS: And so, what does that look like, when the judge is in the room, and we've got the context of everything here. With the White House being upset, because they just feel -- Trump keeps getting asked about this by reporters, about his involvement, and what that looks like.
HONIG: Yes. So, Judge Ho has now received this motion, signed by Emil Bove, plus two career prosecutors, saying, We would like you to dismiss the case. But it's not automatic. Now Judge Ho has to decide whether there's a valid basis to dismiss this case.
This, 99.9 percent of the time judges will dismiss cases. However, I think Judge Ho has to be aware, if he's got eyes and ears, of what's happening in this case. I think he's going to, at a minimum, bring the parties in, and say, Let's have a hearing. I want to hear your reasons. The reasons that are given in this paper have nothing to do with the evidence.
The other thing is, in one of those letters you talked about before, Kaitlan, the eight-page letter by Danielle Sassoon, which is very well-done, she puts a lot of intentional citations in there, and she mentions the rule that says the judge does not have to accept this. She says, I don't think the judge should accept this. And she cites an example of a case where a judge did not accept a dismissal.
COLLINS: Well, and one thing. Trump implied that these were Biden appointees.
None of these are Biden political appointees. These are people the Trump administration put in place here. Danielle Sassoon is a registered Republican, who clerked for Antonin Scalia. And so, when it comes to the argument about that, and who's there -- that they're not carrying out what they were told by the acting Deputy Attorney General to do. I've heard from Trump world that it's -- that they're kind of frustrated by the fallout here, because they weren't following orders that they were given by Main Justice.
STABILE: Yes, well, they weren't following orders. But the other thing, I think, the most striking thing about the motion that they filed is that, and what they've been saying in their letters, is that they want to file this without prejudice. And I think if you--
COLLINS: What does that mean?
STABILE: It means that they can bring it back. So, it means that they want to hold this over Eric Adams' head, so that it's possible -- that is very strange, because if they--
COLLINS: That's not usual?
STABILE: It's very unusual. I mean, in my experience, I can't think of a time--
HONIG: Yes.
STABILE: --when you would -- you would -- unless you give somebody a deferred prosecution or something like that, and they have to do certain things, do community service, or go to drug treatment or -- you know, it's sort of like to hold something over somebody's head like this, is really, really weird.
[21:10:00]
And if you're really taking a principled position that this is a weaponized prosecution, then dismiss it. Why are you -- why is this hanging around?
HONIG: Yes.
STABILE: And there's no explanation for that in the motion paper.
HONIG: No, Renato's exactly right.
COLLINS: Elie, what do you make of that?
HONIG: This is a way of maintaining leverage over Eric Adams. If you believed, as DOJ, that a case was unwarranted, you would dismiss it with prejudice, meaning it cannot come back.
One more thing I think is really important. The career prosecutors, who signed this letter, Antoinette Bacon and Edward Sullivan, they did the right thing. They did a very difficult thing.
If they had refused to sign this letter, you would have had 30 people fired at DOJ, and it would have gone to the next group, who would have been in the same predicament. So, I think what they did was very difficult, but the absolute right thing to do. They're to be commended.
COLLINS: I mean, that's really interesting, if they are trying to use this as leverage, especially hearing what Tom Homan says to Eric Adams, in that interview, about, If you're not in line with our immigration plan, then I'm going to be in your office.
HONIG: I mean, I know they're laughing. But that's exactly the deal.
STABILE: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: That wasn't real--
STABILE: Yes.
COLLINS: That didn't seem like really genuine laughter.
HONIG: It's awkward laughing by one guy, yes.
STABILE: But let's hear the explanation.
COLLINS: Yes.
Well, let's also hear from someone who knows a lot about mass resignations at the Justice Department, because we keep hearing Saturday Night Massacre, Thursday Afternoon Massacre, the echoes of Watergate in this moment here.
John Dean is joining me now. He served as President Nixon's White House counsel.
John Dean, your views of everything that we just talked about, the latest developments over the last 24 hours, in this case?
JOHN DEAN, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is not the Saturday Night Massacre. That's a moment when all of the television stations interrupted regular programming, to tell the world that the President had fired the special prosecutor who was seeking information, seeking his tapes. This isn't of that level.
Where the parallels are with the Saturday Night Massacre, are principled resignations.
During the Saturday Night Massacre, the Attorney General refused to fire the guy he had hired to be special prosecutor. Then the Deputy Attorney General refused to do it. But with an agreement between the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General, the Solicitor General did it, so it wouldn't bleed down further into the Department of Justice.
Here we have seven principled resignations, because the people didn't want to do what they perceived as an illegal act.
COLLINS: Well, and what would have happened? We were -- I was -- we were talking about the meeting that Emil Bove had with the Public Integrity Section, what's left of it, this morning, where one person described it as condescending and combative, and that he was lecturing them on leadership and loyalty. Obviously, they're upset because they have had this play out very publicly.
But if the entire Public Integrity Section had resigned en masse, as they discussed doing after that meeting with him, what would you have classified that as?
DEAN: Well, I'd say that was pretty much bullying, by Bove, to try to get them to fall in line. That did not happen, as I understand, one of the men in the Public Integrity Section, who was about -- close to retirement age or position, he decided to step forward, so the others wouldn't suffer, that he was ready to take the heat.
And this is all going to come out before Judge Ho, when they have to explain what went on behind this request for dismissal.
COLLINS: And so, when that happens, as we watched all of this play out. We're talking about what the Justice Department is going to look like under Trump. There's been so much focus on that, understandably, because of the first term. What does what has happened this week tell you about what the next four years could look like?
DEAN: Well, I think there's going to be a further purge of prosecutors. That's what they want.
I'm sure, they were delighted to see this play out, at the White House, some of the senior people there. This is exactly what they want to get rid of, are people who won't say yes and do exactly what they want. They don't want people to do principled resignations, and those facts to come out. So, they're thinning the ranks.
Now, how the Department of Justice is going to work is another question that we'll have to see.
COLLINS: I think when you -- when you say principled resignations, and what we saw play out. From people that the Trump administration put in place, I should note, at SDNY, some people may ask, Well, if everyone resigns, then you know -- and you're saying, maybe the White House is happy about this. Who takes their place. And what does that look like?
Is that something that people weigh in a situation like this, is it better to resign or to stay?
DEAN: Well, I think some of the -- with the Public Integrity Section, one of the reasons that the person who stepped forward and agreed to endorse the motion to dismiss, was a senior person about ready to resign or retire, and he didn't want to see the Section totally dissipated.
[21:15:00]
So rather than lose all those people, and all that experience, plus the fact that some of these people were early in their career, their livelihoods depended upon their working at the Department of Justice, so he came forward to prevent that from happening, is what I understand, was the behind-the-scenes activity.
COLLINS: Yes, because we heard from -- from officials about, them trying to purge prosecutors who, and agents, who are related to the Trump cases, just in the grand scheme of the DOJ and how it's changing.
One FBI official told CNN, If you're a prosecutor or an agent, and someone brings you a public corruption case, you'd be crazy to even consider taking any action. Maybe that's the point of all of this.
DEAN: Good point. Could absolutely be the real -- whole reason for the drill, and they saw it play out from the Southern District to Main Justice.
COLLINS: John Dean, it's a remarkable moment, and it's great to have your expertise on this. Thank you so much.
DEAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: And to Renato and Elie as well.
Also tonight, our European allies are stunned, reeling, as some say, even aghast, over what they heard from the Vice President as he made his debut on the world stage, and castigated them for their own policies.
Plus, you have seen the mug shot. Everybody has. But not only does that mug shot exist, it's also hanging right outside the Oval Office. We'll explain in a moment.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Unacceptable and indecent. That is how at least two American allies described Vice President JD Vance's aggressive debut on the world stage in Munich today, as diplomats in the room, who may have been hoping to glean new details about the administration's plans on Ukraine, or countering China, were instead met with a barrage of culture war complaints.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The threat that I worry the most about, vis-a-vis Europe, is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. And what I worry about is the threat from within.
If you're running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing America can do for you.
Speaking up and expressing opinions isn't election interference, even when people express views outside your own country, and even when those people are very influential.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My sources tonight are:
David Sanger, New York Times White House and National Security Correspondent.
Bill Stepien, the former White House political director under President Trump.
And Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Harris.
David, let me start with you. Because President Trump, this afternoon, said that this was a very brilliant speech, in his view. But you're in Europe, right now. Have they picked up their jaws off the floor yet?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE & NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "NEW COLD WARS": There was a lot of scraping to do when it was done.
First of all, Kaitlan, imagine the scene. You're at the Munich Security Conference, which is primarily not about the politics of Europe. It's about defense and security issues.
There's a war going on, hundreds of miles away, but one that threatens the borders of Europe. There's this discussion going on about whether or not President Trump is going to engage Vladimir Putin, and cut the Europeans out of the negotiations for ending that war.
What they wanted to hear were the plans for the war. And what they got was, as you heard in that clip, a speech that said, No, China or Russia, particularly Russia, is not your biggest threat. Your biggest threat is from within, and it's not the right-wing groups that are the threat. It's the suppression of their speech.
The right-wing groups are going to do better in this election that's coming up, in just a week's time. But what he was going after was basically sending a message, It's time for MAGA to expand.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, you've been to a lot of these security conferences. I think, JD Vance obviously has a world view on this. He was at the Munich Security Conference, I believe, last year, when Vice President Harris was there.
But to see him in this moment, kind of making his debut on the world stage, scolding allies on their domestic policies. I guess, the question is, what is the goal with a speech like that?
SANGER: Well, I think the goal was several-fold.
First, it was to say the forces you see at work that put President Trump and JD Vance into power exist elsewhere, and this is going to sweep around the world, and that they welcome that.
The second you've heard was their message in the run-up to that, which is the Alliance isn't going to be what it was before. There will be a diminishment of protections for Europe, that Europe has been warned too many times to build up its own forces.
Of course, the reason that they didn't build up their forces that quickly was that it was American policy, for decades, that you didn't want Germany or others to be able to have the power to go conduct a war by themselves.
So now, what he was doing was basically saying, Build up those forces and allow in free -- what were French groups that, German intelligence has concluded before, uses pro-Nazi symbols, some pro-Nazi wording, they walk the edge very closely.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Bill Stepien, you worked inside the Trump White House, in his first term. Trump called this a brilliant speech. David does note the group that -- the party that Vance met with. He's the most senior U.S. official to do so.
What does this tell us about what we should be expecting, do you think, over the next four years?
BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think for four years, you saw Biden, and the Biden administration, talking to the people in the room, the elected elites. Today, JD Vance was talking through those people, to the people they represent.
[21:25:00]
I think what you saw today was JD Vance seeing a political opportunity. And politics is always involved here on the national, international stage. He sees an opportunity, just like we saw in 2016 and 2024. A lot of people in Europe feel forgotten, ignored. They don't recognize their country anymore. Their borders are gone. This was Vance talking, through the elected leadership, to talk to people back home, and I thought it was a real way to broaden our coalition of support--
COLLINS: Yes, and you--
STEPIEN: --for the policies.
COLLINS: You do see other governments, at times, watch what happens in the U.S. and in politics here, to see if that is something that is happening in a global movement. I mean, what is this -- would this -- what was your reaction to Vance's speech today?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: I just don't know the wisdom and traveling around the globe, making enemies.
I do believe, and we were talking about this previously, that the world talks about Trump, and the Trump administration, very differently than we do. I think there's a realization that the emperor has no skirt.
I mean, there were parts of this speech that were incredibly rich for JD Vance to go over and lecture the Europeans about the enemy from within. While -- meanwhile, President Trump, aided by JD Vance, and congressional Republicans, are pushing us to the brink of a constitutional crises, thwarting Congress' authority to not only legislate, but to appropriate, purging agencies that would hold him accountable, as well as dismantling our federal government, one agency at a time.
The other part of it is this whole notion of freedom of speech. Meanwhile, Donald Trump shook down, strong-armed all of the social media sites to not only fact-check -- no longer fact-check, but to also have Elon Musk manipulate the algorithm.
So, I mean, I think that no one is fooled by this. I mean, we don't give the Europeans enough, and leaders all over the world, enough credit. I think they're laughing at Trump, and JD Vance behind his back. I mean, if you look closely, and read between the lines, and what many of the European leaders said at -- in terms of their and after the speech, it's very clear to me that no one is fooled, that no one's feel threatened by what JD Vance said today.
COLLINS: I mean, the German Defense Minister came out pretty quickly after and--
ETIENNE: Laughed.
STEPIEN: Who has an actual election win (ph)--
ETIENNE: And laughed.
STEPIEN: --next week.
ETIENNE: And laughed.
STEPIEN: Like politics are played going both ways here. He's about to lose power. His party is about to lose power in Germany. Trump is quite unpopular in Germany. He's playing politics too. This is what happens.
COLLINS: I guess, my question though is, is if you're the Trump-Vance administration, and you're coming in, and you have this different foreign policy that you believe what has been happening, inside the United States, the last four years with the Biden administration and before that, did not work?
Why not -- why not maybe articulate that to the diplomats in the room, who are very keen to listen, and to see what their view is, especially the week where Ukraine and Russia have been a huge focus in Washington.
STEPIEN: I mean, I think, look at the leadership that's being displayed with Ukraine. You mentioned Ukraine. There's -- if I'm Zelenskyy, I'm doing cartwheels in my little black sweatshirt. I mean, he couldn't have asked for more than he's getting.
COLLINS: It's Ukraine (ph).
STEPIEN: He can't get -- he can't be -- he's got to be thrilled for what he's getting, right now. I mean, you're seeing in the places that matter, in the hotspots around the world, you're seeing presidential leadership from President Trump.
ETIENNE: Well, I mean, I think Zelenskyy is probably having a bit of a whiplash. I mean, the Trump administration has been all over the place, as it relates to Ukraine and Russia.
But the reality is, is there's been this unexplained relationship between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. And I think no one is -- everyone's very clear where this whole thing is going to shake out, and it's going to be whatever Putin wants out of the deal.
COLLINS: Yes.
And David Sanger, I mean, we were seeing reaction from Republicans, though, who were in Munich, including Roger Wicker, the Chair of Armed Services, who was saying, essentially, as they're looking at, not just what Vance said, but also the speech from Defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, this week.
He was calling it -- he said that the speech was a, quote, "Rookie mistake" with the comments that he made on Ukraine. He said, I don't know who wrote the speech -- it is the kind of thing Tucker Carlson could have written. And these are Roger Wicker's words. He said, And Carlson is a fool.
What is -- I mean, globally, how are these leaders viewing this? Is it in the way that Bill laid out here?
SANGER: Well, one of the characteristics of this week, Kaitlan, and it was pretty remarkable, was that as Pete Hegseth visited troops, met with allies, not here in Munich, Vance was down here in Munich, and the two of them were clearly not on the same page.
So, on Wednesday, we saw Mr. Hegseth declare that Ukraine will never join NATO, giving Vladimir Putin one of his biggest talking points out there. He basically said that the territory that Russia now holds will probably be territory that Ukraine loses. So he's given away, before they begin negotiating, two of the biggest things that Putin wants.
And Vance was a lot more careful, and left a lot more room.
[21:30:00]
There was such an uproar that Hegseth had to walk it back, on Thursday, and then try to middle-road on Friday, and left everybody more confused than they were before he had come. So, it did look like amateur hour, out there, for a bit.
Now, it's his first time out doing it. I understand why that's case. But it's something with huge stakes for Europe.
COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. And as we're watching all this play out, all of these officials are abroad.
And Bill, here in Washington, as we were watching this week, with Trump and Elon Musk -- JD Vance mentioned Elon Musk in his speech today. He was saying, If the U.S. had to deal with Greta Thunberg for 10 years, then you guys can deal with Elon Musk for a little bit.
There is a joint interview that Trump and Vance -- or Trump and Elon Musk have done with Sean Hannity. We saw part of that tonight, on whether there's any friction in the relationship between Trump and Elon Musk. This is what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Actually, Elon called me. He said, You know, they're trying to drive us apart.
I said, Absolutely.
No, they said, We have breaking news. Donald Trump has ceded control of the presidency to Elon Musk. President Musk will be attending a Cabinet meeting tonight at 8 o'clock.
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Yes.
TRUMP: And I say, it's just so obvious, they're so bad at it. I used to think they were good at it.
MUSK: Yes.
TRUMP: They're actually bad at it, because if they were good at it, I'd never be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What was remarkable to me about that was not even what he said. But it's just they're doing an interview together.
STEPIEN: It's--
COLLINS: I mean, I'm not -- the President of the United States doesn't often sit down with anyone else for a joint interview.
ETIENNE: Yes.
STEPIEN: Unorthodox, non-traditional. I don't sense the tension that the soap opera writers want to, want to draft up in D.C. Trump has surrounded himself by smart, rich, powerful people for 50 years. He's quite comfortable.
ETIENNE: I think -- I think baby X said it best. He said the quiet thing out loud, when he leaned over to Trump and said, Shut up, you're not the president, go away.
COLLINS: That's what people think he said. I don't think that's been confirmed, I should note.
ETIENNE: Well he told him to shush his mouth.
COLLINS: Elon Musk's little kid--
ETIENNE: He definitely told him to shush his mouth.
COLLINS: --who was in the -- in there.
ETIENNE: But nevertheless, I think it was baby X that put it all on Front Street (ph) for us all, and made it very clear who the President was. And clearly, you could see that on Trump's face. I mean, during that entire exchange, that Elon Musk upstaged him. And Trump doesn't like to be upstaged.
But I will say this, I've been saying this for weeks, that Democrats have an opportunity to continue to play their egos against each other, and drive a wedge between these two, as a way of getting rid of Elon, and I think they have to do that.
COLLINS: Well, that's what Trump said they were trying to do. We'll see what that looks like.
Ashley. Bill. David Sanger, abroad, great to have you as well.
While I was in the Oval Office this week, all of us saw something that we have never seen before. A framed photo of the President's mug shot is hanging just outside the Oval Office. We'll tell you more about that ahead.
Also, new reporting tonight in The New York Times about makeovers, including what Trump wants to do to the Rose Garden.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We've never had a U.S. president who had a mug shot, and we have certainly never had a mug shot hanging outside of the Oval Office before. But that is where President Trump has displayed his, from when he was indicted in Fulton County, Georgia. The framed photo was spotted as Trump was greeting the Indian Prime Minister, this week, inside the Oval.
You could see it here, just over the shoulder of his Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles. That's right outside the Oval Office, in what is known in the West Wing, as the Outer Oval.
I was actually reporting, when we first saw that mug shot for the first time in 2023. It's been a remarkable arc from that moment, to now seeing the historic image in the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Voice of COLLINS: We did get this mug shot of the former President of the United States. We're going to show it to our audience now. This is--
(GRAPHIC IS SHOWN OF TRUMP'S MUG SHOT)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
Voice of COLLINS: --just a striking image to see the former President of the United States, who was just booked in the Fulton County Jail behind us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My White House insiders join me now. Shelby Talcott, and Zolan Kanno-Youngs.
And it's great to have you both.
Shelby, I don't think this should really come as a surprise to anyone. We saw the mug shot on campaign merch. It's now on display in the White House. But it does show you, just from that moment, when this happened, and the photo came out, and people weren't sure how to handle it in 2023, to now seeing the cover of The New York Post with it, inside the West Wing.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Absolutely. It's striking. But, as you said, not surprising.
From the start, when this mug shot was taken, Donald Trump's campaign, at the time, really sought to capitalize on it, and sort of flip the narrative on it, and they used it as a rallying cry for his supporters. They, as you said, put it on mugs, and on T-shirts. And it really did become a rallying cry from his supporters.
And the President has not been shy about using that mug shot. And his campaign -- actually, the White House earlier tonight itself, the White House's X account, tweeting out a picture of that very image.
So, this is not only something that's not surprising, that they have not shied away from, but it's really something that they've leaned into heavily over the past several months.
COLLINS: Zolan, when you're reporting on the mood inside the West Wing, and what these first few weeks have looked like. This kind of moment sort of encapsulates what this return has looked like, and kind of the attitude that we've seen from a lot of White House officials, since Trump retook power.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Some words that come to mind are, emboldened, defiant as well. That's the words that come up when you talk to folks in the White House right now.
[21:40:00]
Look, President Trump as in the first couple weeks coming into the White House, and we've talked about this, wants to reshape the federal government in his own image. And we've talked about that on -- when it comes to topics that have human consequences, and policy consequences, conducting loyalty tests for folks that come in, executive orders that have pushed bureaucrats to be on paid leave.
But it's also, he wants to reshape it, when it comes to the optics as well. Optics matter for Trump. We know that. And this is a great example of that. A mug shot that he was able to raise a lot of money on, during the campaign, being in the Oval Office.
My colleagues are also reporting that he potentially has plans to redo the Rose Garden as well, in a way that would look more like Mar-a- Lago. We've seen other changes as well in the White House. I know you've been in there too. So, it's both in terms of policy, in terms of the workforce, and in terms of the appearance, the optics, trying to put that Trump stamp on the White House, in any way that he can.
COLLINS: Yes, on that reporting from your colleagues at The Times. Shelby, just to for -- to share with everybody.
Essentially, what Trump has drawn up plans to potentially do, or had people draw-up plans, is obviously where the iconic Rose Garden is inside the White House, which actually they redid when Trump was in office, the last time.
He's weighing, basically recreating a patio, similar to the one that he has at Mar-a-Lago. If you've never been to Mar-a-Lago, essentially, it's this giant outdoor area. The President has his own table that's roped off by this this red velvet rope. And all of his allies and friends and donors and everyone sits out there, and that's kind of the place to be, every night for them. And he's now considering essentially recreating that, but in the historic Rose Garden, outside the Oval Office.
TALCOTT: Yes. And again, this is an example of Donald Trump.
Remember, over the last four years, there was a period of time, when Donald Trump was kind of shunned by a lot of Republicans after the January 6 riot. And during that time, he sort of retreated to his home in Mar-a-Lago, where he could kind of play King, day in and day out. He had allies coming in, he had fans coming in, every single day. And so, he's spent the last four years with that as his reality.
And so now, he's coming back to Washington, D.C., and clearly wants to create sort of a version of that in D.C., while he's here during the week, because he's still, of course, going back to Mar-a-Lago on the weekends.
COLLINS: Zolan, I think the best detail in that Maggie-Swan story was, Trump is considering putting a chandelier inside the Oval Office.
KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, we know there's no shortage of those as well in Mar-a-Lago as well.
I mean, look, we're also talking about changing an institution that has historic value here, and putting in certain things that are absolutely going to be associated with Trump, so that there are certain symbols or signatures of him, even for when he does leave, which, again, there're both little things and big things, at this point, he is trying to put his mark on this -- on this institution as well.
Chandelier in the White House. Mug shot, as well, in the Oval Office. I think Shelby said it right, when she said that the President, at this point, is leaning in at this point. And I think just overall, big picture, it speaks to, sort of the confidence level.
I go back to that -- one of the press conferences he had in the transition, when he said that, My first time coming into the White House -- I'm paraphrasing. He said, People will try to stay away from me. Now, business leaders are coming to me, politics -- other public officials, everyone wants to come over.
And that's sort of describes the vibe here. And I think it translates to some of these actions that are being considered, the confidence level that he has, right now, in the White House.
COLLINS: Yes, he said everyone -- everyone was fighting him his first term in office.
KANNO-YOUNGS: That's right.
COLLINS: Shelby, one thing that's not in the Oval Office, on a serious note, though, is a decision that the White House has made and clearly doubled down on, this evening, which is banning The Associated Press, a wire that reaches thousands of readers across the United States, millions. They are now -- they're always in every Oval Office spray, or they write on Air Force One, if memory serves. I can't remember when that wasn't the case.
And because the AP still refers to the body of water that Trump has renamed is the Gulf of America in his executive order, they're still calling it the Gulf of Mexico, because they have a lot of people who read outside of the U.S. as well? We've seen other global outlets make similar decisions. They are now banning them indefinitely from the Oval Office and from Air Force One.
TALCOTT: Yes, this is obviously a really big move against the press.
And what's notable is, first of all, The Associated Press is referring it to as the Gulf of Mexico, but they're also saying, Which has recently been renamed the Gulf of America by Donald Trump. And this instance is actually kind of splitting conservative pundits as well.
[21:45:00]
There are some conservatives who say, Yes, this is a great move. But there are some conservatives, who are concerned about this action, because what does it mean, sort of for the future, and for future administrations. Does this open the door for future presidents, and Donald Trump himself, to continue to sort of push back, if journalists and reporters don't report exactly what he wants, how he wants it done.
COLLINS: Yes.
KANNO-YOUNGS: It's also just interesting that this comes on the same day as well that JD Vance would go overseas, and also have a speech that was focused on alleged freedom of speech violations as well.
COLLINS: Yes.
KANNO-YOUNGS: While at the same time, not allowing an AP reporter, which is a crucial part of journalism across the country, you know (inaudible). COLLINS: Yes, a great point that Zolan was making there, in terms of the reach here, and also what we heard from the Vice President earlier.
Zolan Kanno-Youngs. Shelby Talcott. Great to have both of you here, this evening. Thank you so much for that.
Coming up for us next. It may be Valentine's Day. But there's a shade of red that I want to talk about next. It's crimson.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's a college rivalry that is best-known for being played, usually on the third Saturday in November. But tomorrow, Auburn and Alabama will meet on the hardwood, in what is going to be a historic matchup of the number one and number two teams in men's college basketball.
Full disclosure, I'm slightly biased in who I'm rooting for. My source, Christine Brennan, knows that. She is CNN's Sports Analyst, and Sports Columnist for USA Today.
And Christine, obviously, this is like -- I tweeted, right after football ended, that I couldn't wait to be at basketball school. And obviously, our season did not end, as some of us would have hoped.
But turning to this, and just watching this play out, in the State of Alabama, is so fun, and also seeing just what a historic showdown this is going to be, tomorrow night, in Tuscaloosa.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST, SPORTS COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Absolutely, Kaitlan. And you know, this is number one versus number two. And by the way, the two teams are number one, one is in one poll, one is in the other. So that even better, there's arguing already.
And it's the first time ever an SEC schools, men's schools have ever played one versus two. First time these two schools have been one versus two in any sport, and it does have an Iron Bowl feel to it.
And as you know, even though it's only February, the idea of what this portends. Right now, a lot of those experts have Alabama, or actually they probably have Auburn one -- number one overall, and then Alabama number two, in the whole country, in terms of the seeding for March Madness.
So, this is just, I think, a beginning. You've got one more game, of course, at Auburn, in March, and then the tournament. But it is terrific to see different schools, in this case, the national blue blood, so to speak. Well, now, we see that the power is back, where you believe it belongs in the Southeastern Conference in Alabama, and not this time in football, but in Men's hoops.
COLLINS: Yes, my dad and I were talking, yesterday, about the notion that we could see them play three times, and what this could look like, in terms of starting with tomorrow night.
And given it is, you're right, the first ever top two men's basketball matchup in SEC history is a moment in and of itself.
But if you've been watching -- some people may be surprised that this is playing out. But if you've been watching these teams, last year, a lot of the players had the option to go pro, and ended up deciding to wait and stay back another year, which has helped make this such an exciting and hyped-up game.
BRENNAN: Oh, for sure. And, as you know, of course, Alabama made it to the final four, last year, losing to the eventual national champion, UConn. So nothing -- no disgrace there. And Auburn made the men's Final Four in 2019.
You've got these two high-powered coaches, Nate Oats and Bruce Pearl, who have great resumes.
And you're right, the idea of sticking around, that old one-and-done that really has, I think, decimated men's basketball in the sense of, they're there for one year, and then they're gone. And it's great for those guys to go to the NBA. Where the women's game, as we know, has been flourishing because they do stick around for four years.
And now, as to your point, if players are sticking around from when a -- obviously, some men's players do.
COLLINS: Yes.
BRENNAN: But if you can get the bulk of your team to stick around, then not only do you have the success, but you also have the fan interest that -- with some of the players.
COLLINS: Yes, I know you're working on a book about Caitlin Clark. Can't wait to read that.
Christine Brennan, always great to have you. Thank you for joining us.
And obviously, Roll Tide to everybody.
BRENNAN: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. Back in Washington, as we focus on the latest wave of firings by President Trump, the government agency in charge of safe-guarding America's nuclear weapons is one of them. Some of those are now being rescinded, because they didn't realize what these people were doing.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: More than 300 workers at the National Nuclear Security Administration have been fired, we are told as, our sources say, that Trump officials did not seem to know or realize that the agency oversees nuclear weapons. Now tonight, Energy Department spokesperson, after this was reported, disputed the number of personnel that was affected, telling CNN, less than 50 people were dismissed.
The agency, I should note, started rescinding terminations, this morning.
We'll continue following all of that in Washington, the developments inside, the efforts to reshape the federal government, and drastically reduce the workforce.
This comes as, on CNN here, a new Original Series coming up, is tracking the mysterious circumstances behind the deadliest terror attack on the U.S., before 9/11. That was the bombing of the Pan Am Flight 103, over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VICTORIA CUMMOCK, WIDOW OF JOHN CUMMOCK: John happened to be in London on business. Every day, we would always talk, you know, check in with each other, see how the three kids were getting on.
[22:00:00]
He had called me first thing on December 21st. We had talked about preparation for Christmas, and the kids, you know, waiting for Santa, and daddy to come home, and celebrating our youngest daughter's third birthday. He made no mention that he was going to be changing his plans, and trying to come home early, and surprise us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: "Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am 103" will premiere this Sunday, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern, here on CNN. Don't miss it.
Thank you so much for joining us. Have a great weekend.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" is up next.
