Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump's Approval At 100 Days Lower Than Any Pres. In Decades; Gov. JB Pritzker Calls Out "Do-Nothing" Democrats; Most Polls Close In Vote For Canada's Next Prime Minister. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 28, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Now, just a few days ago, he'd been telling reporters, in Sardinia, where he's from, that he could attend the conclave. But he's now accepted he won't be going into the Sistine Chapel, after being reportedly shown letters from Pope Francis, which says he has not got the right to vote. I'm sure the cardinals would be quite relieved, they don't have to shut the doors of the Sistine Chapel on Cardinal Becciu.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: That's some behind- the-scenes drama. Christopher Lamb, thanks.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
On the eve of 100 days, back in office, the reviews are in. And so far, Americans have just given President Trump the worst grades of any president in decades. Why a growing majority of the American people say that he's only made the economy worse. One of his top Cabinet members is here to weigh in.
Also, a Democrat with national ambitions has just torched his own party, calling out, quote, Do-nothing Democrats who, he says, flock to podcasts instead of standing up to the White House.
And polls are now starting to close tonight, as Canada is choosing its next prime minister, with the American President, his threats, and his insults, looming large over all of it. We'll have a live report on the ground.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, here in Washington, we're on the verge of a critical juncture by which all modern presidents are judged, for better or for worse. While the first 100 days are but a snapshot in time, and things can certainly change, and often do, as we've seen, we're now seeing what the American public has to say, about how President Trump has done in his first 100 days in office. The current assessment is worse than anyone who has occupied the Oval Office in at least the last seven decades. It was FDR, of course, that set 100 days as the standard for judging a president's performance. And President Trump now is setting his own standard for the lowest approval, 100 days in, since at least Eisenhower.
On day 99, the White House made clear what part of the President's agenda, it believes, resonates with Americans the most, right now. Because from the moment that you entered the White House grounds today, there were large posters lining the North Lawn, as you can see here, designed to highlight the President's immigration crackdown, as border crossings have ground to a halt, which the President's top adviser, Stephen Miller, who drives his immigration policy, spoke with reporters about today, as you saw him there on the North Lawn.
One number, the White House did not tout today was that new CNN polling, on the President's handling of the economy, that dropped, while I was there, late this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: A majority, 59 percent of Americans in the country now say that they believe President Trump's economic policies have made conditions in the country worse. That's up from 51 percent just a few months ago, and that's actually on par with the worst numbers that Joe Biden saw when he was in the White House, and of course, had a lot of voters disapproving of how he was handling the economy.
Overall, Americans don't seem enthusiastic about the President's new trade policies, even though a lot of the effects of them are still to come. You're seeing, some people say that they are already paying higher prices.
And listen to this. 69 percent of Americans say they believe a recession in the next year is at least somewhat likely, while 32 percent say that they believe it is very likely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Now, most members of the President's party are hopeful that his plans will ultimately lead to a stronger economy. But 100 days in, that remains to be seen.
And take a listen to how during the campaign, the President sold Americans on how he'd succeed on a host of key issues versus how most Americans feel he's handling those very same issues now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The border is a very big thing. I think the border is -- the economy and the border, the -- and inflation, which is part of economy.
I will end the war in Ukraine, which would have never started if I was president.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And I will stop the chaos in the Middle East.
I love tariffs. I love tariffs, what they can do for your income and protection, and even third-party things you can do just by the threat of tariffs, because we're the pot of gold.
Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again, to bring down the prices of all goods.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: My lead source tonight on all of this is a key figure in the President's administration. Interior Secretary, Doug Burgum.
And Secretary Burgum, it's great to have you here.
As a member of the administration, what would you say to those 59 percent of Americans, who say the President's policies are making things worse right now?
DOUG BURGUM, INTERIOR SECRETARY: Well, I'd say the first 100 days, right now when you have a president that's driving dramatic and historic and positive change for the country, this is like asking a group of people, How did you like the movie? And they've seen 114th of it.
I mean, this presidency is going to be over 1,400 days long. And we're a 100 days in. And President Trump is driving enormous change, and trying to realign America's standing in the world when it comes to trade.
[21:05:00]
He's certainly delivered on his promise in terms of the border, and he's delivering hard on a number of other things. He's talking about it, in terms of restructuring the size and impact of government, making great progress on balancing the budget. And of course, what he's doing on energy is fantastic, in terms of bringing energy back as a priority for this country.
K. COLLINS: So you're essentially saying that Americans need to keep watching?
BURGUM: Well, I think the smart money is on America in the long-term. And I think that's why you're seeing records amount of both, capital from the U.S. and foreign direct investment flowing to the United States, trillions of dollars that people want to invest in this country, because they know that he's on a path towards lower regulation, lower taxes and more fair world trade. Those things are all super-positive, for our economy, going forward, and every American is going to benefit from that.
K. COLLINS: But you're one of his key surrogates, who's argued, the economy helped him win the election. This is an unusual place for him to be in, where he's getting bad numbers on the economy. Why do you think that is?
BURGUM: Well, I think it's because he had the courage to take on this incredible imbalance that we have. The U.S. had the most open economy in the world, the largest economy in the world. And most, even our allies, had their economies closed to us. And so, we really had a fundamentally unfair and unbalanced trade, and he's trying to rectify that.
And right now, the White House, at record speed, is engaged in 35 different bilateral country-to-country, one-on-one, trade deals. In every single one of those, the U.S. is going to come out better than where we started. Because the premise here is that none of these deals are going to be worse than the U.S. than where we were before. It's only getting better from here.
K. COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because obviously -- I mean, tariffs is one thing he made very clear on the campaign trail he was going to do. Maybe people didn't believe him. But he wrote yesterday that many people's income taxes will be substantially reduced, maybe even completely eliminated, once the revenue from the tariffs comes in.
But if you're making deals with countries, and you're going to lower those tariffs, how are you going to have the revenue to cover people's income taxes?
BURGUM: Well, there is going to be revenue, two ways. One, in terms of just increased trade, because if we have markets that are open to U.S. company, and more things that are built here, that's a positive for America, because of income taxes are one form of tax, but there's also many other forms of revenue that the government can generate. And so, I think--
K. COLLINS: Like what?
BURGUM: Well, certainly take a look at Interior. Under the Biden administration, revenue from using the balance sheet of America, the land and the resources that we have, both on shore and offshore, were going down. And we have a tremendous opportunity through leasing of land for minerals, getting ourselves back into mining.
The war on mining is over with President Trump. The war on timber is over with -- under President Trump, the war on oil and gas is over. All this thing is over. And now we're seeing investment coming back. And in those cases, those companies will buy a lease, they write a check to the federal government, and then when they develop that resource, they pay a royalty.
K. COLLINS: But that's not the argument he's making here. He's saying that the tariffs will generate so much revenue that people in a certain income level will not have to pay taxes. I mean, if you look at the numbers, the tariffs would be up to -- would have to be four times what they are now, to actually make up for that. I think some people look at that and say, the math does not add up.
BURGUM: Well, I think when you're taking a look at the opportunity that we have, to balance trade, and companies that have had free access to our market, even at the 10 percent level, this is producing billions of dollars a day for America, if those stay in place.
If they don't stay in place, because we end up with free and fair trade, we know that America can compete with anyone. And if we start building and manufacturing products here, as opposed to outsourcing that to around the world, that's going to strengthen every community, create more high-paying jobs.
And with the advent of AI coming, that's another thing where we've got to have the energy to be able to produce the electricity to win the AI arms race. President Trump, very focused on that.
K. COLLINS: You're not the Treasury Secretary, or Peter Navarro, the trade adviser. But do you know of any trade agreements that they are close to actually closing in on, and not just toplines, a memorandum of understanding.
BURGUM: Well, I know -- I know that they're very focused in taking a look at those -- in those 35, who is ready to come to the table. The top half of those 35 have been broken into three tiers. And these folks are working around the clock, over the weekends, to get trade deals.
And I think, for President Trump, you're going to see one trade deal after another announced. When you start walking through a 100 announcements, with a 100 different countries, in every single one of those, we end up with a better trade deal than we have right now? I mean, how could anybody say that's not a good deal for this country?
But again, the courage to actually take on a completely unfair global trading system, it takes -- you know, President Trump was courageous in his first term. Now he's fearless, this time around, and he's fearless in fighting for every American, because these things will benefit our economy, and will benefit every American.
K. COLLINS: I mean, he's arguing that he's made 200 trade deals so far.
[21:10:00]
BURGUM: Well, there is all kinds of companies -- countries, excuse me, that are showing up at the doorstep, because they understand America is serious about leveling the trade issues, right now.
K. COLLINS: Can I ask you? Because you mentioned, if the tariffs stay in place, what that would look like, the revenue that you believe it could generate.
Tonight, The Wall Street Journal is reporting that he's expected to peel back some of the tariffs on automakers. So essentially, they're not paying tariffs on top of other tariff -- tariffs, if it's on steel and aluminum imports.
Certainly a relief to those automakers. But I wonder, those people obviously have a direct line to the West Wing. So does Tim Cook of Apple. What do you say to small businessowners who look at that and say, The big companies are getting a break, but we, because we're small businesses, are not.
BURGUM: Well, I don't know that that's a -- I mean, that's an assumption that I can't -- a hypothetical I can't agree with, because I know that, again, if a -- if a small retailer is buying goods, and selling goods, that is made in the United States, tariffs aren't part of their life.
There are no tariffs on products made in the United States. If you're a large retailer, and you're getting a lot of your products made in China, yes, you're going to have to deal with a different cost structure, but--
K. COLLINS: But some small businesses get parts of products that they make from overseas and whatnot, so the tariffs are affecting them. We've seen this with people who make strollers or bicycles, for example.
BURGUM: Well, I think that -- I think every American now -- during COVID, they had their first understanding that supply chains matter and what countries they come from.
And now, as we have this discussion about, and people starting to realize how unfair the trade balance has been, that they're starting to understand that maybe it would be a good thing, that if we were actually making things in America, and that's a positive thing. Positive things for everybody, including small business on Main Street.
K. COLLINS: Well, as a former businessman, I wonder, do you get calls from old friends and acquaintances asking for help with the President?
BURGUM: Well, absolutely, I think that we -- as someone who's been involved in business my whole life, we're hearing from a lot of different sectors. And of course, every sector depends on energy.
President Trump has wisely kept energy out of all of these tariff discussions, because he knows that both, for us to be able to sell energy to our friends and allies, stop our adversaries from funding those wars against us, whether it's Russia funding their war against Ukraine, or whether it's Iran funding 24 terror groups, all of them doing that because the Biden administration was like, We're going to shut down U.S. energy, we're going to buy our energy from our adversaries.
That was a policy that is, you know -- any country that does not secure, have their own energy security, has no national security. President Trump is putting us back on a path, where part of the core affordability of any industry is we've got to have low-cost energy in this country, and one way you do that is increase supply. And whether it's minerals, whether it's electricity, whether it's liquid fuels, we're on the path right now.
And what has been accomplished in the first 100 days permitting, taking two-year permitting, bringing it down to one month, bringing back base load electricity--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
BURGUM: --in this country.
K. COLLINS: Yes, we did see oil production at an all-time high, under President Biden. He didn't tout it that often. But Secretary Burgum--
BURGUM: Well, he did because of the permitting that happened under President Trump. I mean, all-time record oil production under Biden was because of Trump. It was in spite of Biden.
I was running -- I was running a state that was a natural resources state, and we were fighting the federal government. The federal government wasn't even holding the legally required lease sales during the Biden administration. The first president since Harry Truman was Biden that didn't hold those lease sales. So for them to take credit, that was all because--
K. COLLINS: Well, they didn't take credit, because it wasn't very popular with their voters.
BURGUM: Well--
K. COLLINS: Secretary Burgum--
BURGUM: --affordable electricity is popular with everyone, and America needs to make sure we don't lose the thing.
I mean, take a look what's happening in Europe right now, with this 60 million people in a brownout, blackout. We came very close to that happening in America because we've -- the Biden administration policy so dangerously eroded base load in favor of having unreliable, intermittent sources.
And so, we're just fortunate that we're not where Europe is right now, and we don't want to go there. Germany spent a half a trillion dollars to go chase a green path--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
BURGUM: --and they ended up with electricity that cost three times as much, and they're producing 20 percent less.
K. COLLINS: Secretary Doug Burgum, always great to have you. Thanks for joining us, on set, tonight.
BURGUM: Thank you, Kaitlan. Great to be here.
K. COLLINS: Our White House insiders are also here tonight.
White House Correspondent for PBS News Hour, Laura Barron-Lopez. And The Atlantic's Michael Scherer, who is one of the reporters who just interviewed President Trump, for the cover story of the June issue of The Atlantic, as you can see here.
Tell us about this interview. How did it go? And can you just kind of remind us the backstory here, for people who may not realize why it was so notable that the President sat down with The Atlantic?
MICHAEL SCHERER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, it was a long saga.
We approached his staff and him, in February, initially. He agreed to an interview. We were going to do it in mid-March. And then he put out a Truth Social post, attacking me and my co-author, Ashley Parker, personally attacking our integrity. The interview seemed to be off.
We called him that weekend. He took the call. Was very gracious. We did the interview on the phone, on a Saturday morning.
[21:15:00]
And then there was some back-and-forth that followed after that, interrupted by Signalgate, which was inconvenient for our reporting. My boss, Jeffrey Goldberg, was added to a text chain of several Cabinet officials. And that led to him attacking Jeffrey, attacking The Atlantic again.
But ultimately, last week, he had his staff reach out to us, said he wanted us to come in, and specifically asked for Jeffrey to come in. And it was a very cordial, respectful dialog, no name-calling on either side. And it was actually pretty informative.
K. COLLINS: Yes, well, and part of it, you talked about immigration and the scrutiny that they're getting over the courts right now.
When they were asked, essentially, the question of, What if an American is wrongly deported? As we've seen them carrying out this. And highlighting it at the White House, for what they say is the success of it. The President said, quote, "Let me tell you that nothing will ever be perfect in this world."
I wonder what you made of that comment from the President.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWS HOUR: Yes, it's funny, considering that at the same time, he's also saying that he's looking into whether or not they even have to have hearings or trials for migrants that they're considering deporting, which is just a fundamental part of due process for anyone.
And I was talking to the lawyers for those U.S. citizen children that were deported today. And they were telling me that, essentially refuting what the administration is saying, saying that these mothers had no ability to talk to legal counsel, that there were multiple legal custodians that were willing to take the children, and take care of them, and could legally take care of them in the United States, and they essentially had no opportunity to work that out with immigration officials.
And one of the children was deported within 24 hours, the others were deported within three days, and had no ability to talk to legal counsel. So, we're seeing a steady erosion of due process, not just in the case of U.S. citizens, but also in the case of other immigrants.
K. COLLINS: Did the President seem concerned about that? What was your takeaway, given, immigration has been one of their success points when they look at the border crossings, and how dramatically down they are. There was a reason they were highlighting the deportations, at the White House, today. Did he seem to feel at all that this overshadows that?
SCHERER: We asked a number of questions about, whether he had been intellectually consistent in the way he was approaching things, on immigration, whether he really did care about due process, on the idea of sending Americans to foreign prisons.
I mean, the Declaration of Independence is on the wall in the Oval Office. And one of the things the Declaration says, we're mad at the king for subjecting us to foreign jurisdictions. And I asked him about that, about using the IRS to go after Harvard.
Bottom line with Trump is he doesn't concern himself with those technicalities. It was very hard to get him to sort of catch on to -- like, Are you being consistent through these things? For him, it's some people have been wronged before, so if some people get hurt, if we're going the other way, in my policy, it's not that big a deal.
When he talks about due process, he says, Look, there wasn't due process when they came in, because a lot of people were coming in, declaring for asylum, and then waiting years before they were showing up into a court and getting the due process.
K. COLLINS: I also thought a note -- another notable quote was how first term is different from this term and what he sees. The quote was, "The first time, I had two things to do -- run the country and survive; I had all these crooked guys..." He goes, "And the second time, I run the country and the world."
BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes, I mean, he's clearly referring to a number of the Republicans, within his administration, that provided checks and balances on him, that said, No, legally, we don't think you can take that action that you want to take. And those people aren't necessarily there anymore.
And now he's saying -- it's a similar, I think, to something he posted on Truth Social, earlier this year, when he said, if he's doing something that he believes is saving the country, then he's above the law.
And we're seeing time and time again that this administration, when you bring up questions about due process, when you bring up questions about whether or not they're defying the courts, Trump is believing his own interpretation of the law.
K. COLLINS: Laura, great to have you.
Michael, great interview as well. Everyone should read it. The entire cover story, at The Atlantic, out today.
And nearly a 100 days into the presidency, the second Trump presidency, Democrats, though, are still searching for a message that breaks through. One Democratic governor's stinging message, and reaction from my congressional sources, next.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: On the eve of President Trump's 100th day in Congress, the Democrats are still searching for a cohesive strategy, to respond to the White House. One of them, Illinois governor, JB Pritzker, suggests that his party stop listening to the political class and, quote, Fight everywhere all at once.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): Fellow Democrats, for far too long, we've been guilty of listening to a bunch of do-nothing political types who would tell you that America's house is not on fire, even as the flames were licking their faces.
Never before in my life have I called for mass protests, for mobilization, for disruption. But I am now.
These Republicans cannot know a moment of peace.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
PRITZKER: They have to understand that we will fight their cruelty with every megaphone and microphone that we have. We must castigate them on the soapbox and then punish them at the ballot box.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Now, Governor Pritzker notably delivered that speech, designed to fire up Democrats, in New Hampshire, of all places, amid speculation about a 2028 run.
[21:25:00]
Now, whether that message will be enough to get his party on the same page remains to be seen, especially when there's been infighting in the Democratic National Committee, public disputes over voters' understanding of the word, oligarchy, and new battles over key leadership positions here in Washington.
My sources tonight are a pair of Democratic congressmen. Robert Garcia of California. And Greg Casar of Texas.
And it's great to have you both.
I wonder what you make of what Governor Pritzker said, in terms of, Democrats need to stop listening to the political class, and do- nothing Democrats are to blame, essentially, for the struggles against the White House.
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I mean, look, I think, first of all, I love Governor Pritzker. I think he's got a great message, he's tough, he's bold, he's out there telling like it is, and I think people really need that. I think we need an all-hands-on-deck approach. And so I think we need Governor Pritzker, as we need Democrats, fighting hard against Elon Musk, against his illegal deportations, standing up for working-class people.
And so, I think people are very frustrated, and I think a lot of us want Democrats to continue to -- to step up, to fight tough, to fight like hell. That's what the base wants. That's what people on the ground want. So I think he's speaking to a lot of concerns within the party. We're having -- we've had those discussions. We've got to come moving forward. So, I applaud what he said, and I think more and more Democrats are going to continue to fight as days goes on.
K. COLLINS: Well, and you've been talking about Resistance 2.0, as you've described it, which I would like to hear how you lay that out. But when he says, Republicans should not know a moment of peace, is that part of that? Does that fit into what you're envisioning?
REP. GREG CASAR (D-TX): We have to be willing to pick a fight. As Governor Pritzker said, Too often, the pundit class told Democrats to, and they put this in big bold letters in the newspaper, Roll over and play dead.
But that strategy is not what the people wanted. And I think the people and Governor Pritzker is following this, are winning the argument against the pundits, saying, Don't roll over and play dead. Stand up and fight, because a corpse is not a very inspirational political candidate. You can't have your voice heard through the walls of your coffin.
And so, I think we have to stand up and fight, so that the voters who don't always watch CNN, or read The New York Times, who just sometimes tune into politics, actually hear us. And for them to hear us, they've got to know what we believe in, by watching us pick a fight against the billionaires that are currently ransacking the working-class of all political backgrounds.
K. COLLINS: Well, I mean, we've seen at these town halls, the frustration from voters, not just against Republicans, and Elon Musk, and President Trump. Against Democrats, for not doing enough. I mean, people have been screaming at lawmakers over this.
And President Trump weighed in on this. He told The Atlantic, The Democrats have lost their confidence in the truest sense. I don't think they know what they're doing. I think they have no leader. He said, If you ask me right now, I know a lot about the Democratic Party. I can't tell you who their leader is. One, does he have a point about Democrats losing their confidence right now?
GARCIA: Look, let's be clear. Donald Trump shouldn't be giving any advice. His numbers are tanking.
K. COLLINS: I don't know, he won the election.
GARCIA: Yes, right now, his numbers are tanking. He's underwater, in the Fox News poll. He's finally underwater on his best issue, immigration. His polls continue to decline week after week.
Democrats right now are organized. We're going not just into our own districts. We're going into Republican districts, winning Republican town halls. Greg was just in a few Republican districts. I've been in Republican districts. Voters are fired up to take on essentially the billionaires and Elon Musk in this country, that are stealing dollars and resources and benefits from working-class people, eliminating agencies, attacking programs, taking more away from the poor who need our support.
And I think our message is going to continue to resonate. But we've got to be in the fight. I think one thing that I think, whether it's Governor Pritzker, whether -- other governors across the country, or our own leadership, is we, at this moment, we've got to fight and push back hard.
K. COLLINS: So who's the leader of the Democratic Party right now?
GARCIA: Look, I think Hakeem Jeffries, from our caucus perspective, is the leader of the Democratic Party. But there are other leaders. There are governors, whether it's governors, across the state of California, whether it's other leaders in the Senate, we have a lot of leaders.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I mean, she's out there doing these incredible rallies, motivating grassroots voters, voters of all kinds across this country, to actually take on the fight ahead. So, I think we've got a bunch of leaders.
CASAR: And Kaitlan, I would say, a 100 days ago, I think there -- it's honest to say, a lot of the Democratic Party were licking our wounds, grieving, reflecting. But it was time to get off the mat and get back into the ring. A 100 days ago, people were asking, should we play, as a party, play footsie with Elon Musk, or go toe to toe with him? Should we be calling out the billionaires or not?
I think a 100 days later, our party is starting to shape up and start to take on this idea of, We can be the pro-worker, anti-billionaire party. It's the right thing to do. It takes us back to our roots, and it works. That's why we won that Wisconsin Supreme Court race. I think that's what built the FDR coalition, and the LBJ coalition. And I think we're starting to shape up in that way.
But we've got to listen to those voters, who are asking for us to actually pick a core message. And, in my view, that message is, We've got to be for the many against the few that are screwing them over. K. COLLINS: Do you agree with what Elissa Slotkin had to say, Senator from Michigan, essentially saying that Democrats need to retake the flag, appeal to patriotism, and not let Republicans hold that ground?
[21:30:00]
CASAR: Yes, there's nothing more patriotic than you work a full day's wages and you should pay -- get paid enough to be able to buy a house. Not be paying tons in taxes, for Elon Musk to steal it, and to use that to take a freaking rocket ship to the moon. I mean, that's a core patriotic idea, is that we should be prioritizing the American worker, not these billionaires.
We should be making sure that everyone's rights are protected and expanded, not being taken away by a guy who honestly just doesn't care about you.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
CASAR: I think that that is -- that we should be retaking that brand for the American worker.
K. COLLINS: And I assume you don't mean literally stealing it, when you talk about Elon Musk?
CASAR: I mean Elon Musk, let me be very clear, has been shutting down, trying to shut down the phone lines that people use to call into Social Security. He's talking about calling our seniors, fraudsters. Talking about cutting the $65 a day that seniors get in Social Security.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
CASAR: While he funnels $8 million a day in federal contracts to himself.
Look, they might try to call it legal. But I think when the story is ultimately told on this, Elon Musk has been illegally using his undue influence, running the White House, to funnel billions of dollars for himself. That's theft. That's corruption.
And I think that any other country looking at us, goes, Oh my god, what happened to America? How are these billionaires being allowed to have such enormous conflicts of interest while they run the government?
K. COLLINS: Well, a lot of that question has been, what is oversight from Congress? You are on the House Oversight committee. Today, we learned that the Chair of that committee for Democrats, or the Ranking Member on that, is going to step down, Gerry Connolly. He says that his cancer has returned, which is obviously terrible news, and we pray for his good health.
But there is a question of what this means for Democrats, and who's going to take that position? What would you like to see happen? GARCIA: Well, first, I think it's really important, I mean, Gerry has been an incredible leader in the Congress and on the Oversight committee. We serve with him. He has been a mentor to all of us. And so, I mean, look, it's important that right now our focus is on Gerry, his family, and his recovery. He has not officially stepped down from the -- from the position. So, I think we've got to be respectful of him and his service.
The Oversight committee is there because it's there to take on corruption, to be a check on the administration, in this case, Donald Trump.
K. COLLINS: Well, you mentioned AOC. And she wanted to have that leadership position.
GARCIA: Right. Look--
K. COLLINS: Would you like to see that?
GARCIA: AOC is fantastic.
I mean, it's really important that Gerry Connolly has not stepped down from the position. I'm going to be respectful of him. He's going through a really difficult time. I think we've got to honor him and his family.
K. COLLINS: Yes, I completely understand.
Congressmen, it's great to have both of you here, and to hear your perspectives, tonight. Thank you both for joining.
CASAR: Thank you.
GARCIA: Thank you very much.
K. COLLINS: Up next tonight. Polls are closing this hour in Canada. It's an election that has been overshadowed by the U.S. president. But who is going to come out on top? My next CNN source is live from Ottawa, right ahead.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: We're covering breaking news, in Canada, tonight, as polls across much of the country have just closed moments ago, in a highly consequential election that is going to determine whether Canadians want the country's Liberal Party to stay in power, or hand control over to the Conservatives.
It's a race that some believe is also in part, a referendum on President Trump. I think that includes President Trump himself.
CNN's Paula Newton joins me now, live from Ottawa.
And, Paula, the question is, what does this look like tonight? How is it -- how is it shaping out, as of right now?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: As of right now, it is too early to tell. The mother lode of votes is coming down from Ontario and Quebec. We should know more within the hour.
But I can tell you that what it is looking like is a country that is much more polarized, whether it's between the Conservatives or the Liberals, Kaitlan. Stop me when this sounds familiar.
In Donald Trump insinuating (ph) himself in this election, it has been clear that what people want is a strong leader. So a lot of the other parties, for others running across the country, just don't seem to be cutting it.
And right now, this does seem to be a race between two men, with really opposing views of how to handle the President, but again, both equally strong, that they do not appreciate the President insinuating himself in this election, and certainly do not appreciate his rhetoric about the 51st state.
I mean, look, we've got a long time to go here, still, in terms of counting votes. But the Liberals, I can tell you, I was just at Liberal headquarters, not feeling as confident as they would. I would say, last week, this will be a tense night for them. Prime Minister, Mark Carney, defied all the odds, right Kaitlan, in the polls, something that historically is hard to do.
And yet, right now, they would be nervous as to whether or not they're going to hang on to a majority parliament, and actually have that for the Liberal Party, something they haven't had in a few years, or whether it will be a minority Parliament. And that will mean it will be much more difficult to try and get things passed through Parliament, and give more power, in fact, to the Conservative Party, and Pierre Poilievre. We'll wait and see.
K. COLLINS: Paula Newton, we'll be watching closely. Keep us updated what you're hearing. Thank you for that report.
And my White House insiders are back with me.
And Michael, in your interview with the President, he spoke a lot about Canada becoming the 51st state.
SCHERER: Yes.
K. COLLINS: Something that he has made quite clear, he says, he's not joking about in recent interviews in.
And he said during this, Remember, if they're a state, there's no tariffs. They have lower taxes. We have to guard them militarily.
Jeffrey Goldberg said, You seriously want them to become a state?
And the President responded, I think it would be great.
Jeffrey Goldberg pointed out it would be, A hell of a big Democratic state.
And Trump said, A lot of people say that, but I'm OK with it if it has to be.
[21:40:00]
SCHERER: He was also very proud to have had such an impact against his own interests, on the country of Canada.
He mentioned that he had swung -- he took credit for swinging the polls 25 percent, and making this election such a close call, because the Conservatives were heavily favored to win before, which was sort of funny that he would take credit for that. But I think -- I think for him, just showing his influence around the globe is its own reward.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
What do you make of how the President and what the White House have been saying about this?
BARRON-LOPEZ: I think that -- I mean, the President made clear in the interview with you, and your colleagues, that essentially, regardless of the outcome, his desires for Canada are not changing, right? He is still saying that he would love them to be the 51st state, regardless of whether or not that makes much sense.
And Canadians, I think, regardless of the outcome, are still pretty stung by everything that's played out, by the tariff threats, by what it could mean for them even after this election, and also by those comments about them being annexed. I mean, Canadians that I've talked to are not happy about that. They don't like it. I mean, it's part of why they've had a rally around their own flag effect.
K. COLLINS: I mean, he refers to the border as a randomly drawn line, essentially.
I think the key question is how, whoever does come out on top, how they handle and deal with a President Trump? I mean, every world leader we've seen take different tactics here.
SCHERER: I think the other thing we -- you have to watch is a lot of the border states are being affected by this. Canadians are not traveling to the United States, like vacation homes in Maine are not being rented. It could have domestic political impacts, if some of the trade for the northern states also declines as well.
K. COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and in terms of how the White House is watching this, I wonder what you've heard from officials, if they feel the same way that the President does, in terms of how he's kind of bragging about the kind of whirlwind and energy that he's put into this, and how people are paying much closer attention than they probably would have six months ago.
BARRON-LOPEZ: I think publicly, they say that they're aligned with him and that they trust his process. But privately, I mean, there are a lot of concerns about what happens in the months to come, and that impact.
You're already hearing American businessowners in the northern states that are saying they've lost out, whether it's hotels or restaurants, they've lost out on massive amounts of income. And that's something that I think, especially with these poll numbers that we're seeing in the CNN recent poll, that the longer that goes on, the more the President may hear from his allies, across the administration, and outside of the administration.
K. COLLINS: Yes, we'll see.
Michael and Laura, it's great to have you both here tonight. Thanks for being our insiders.
Up next. We have another kind of insider who is warning about how those drastic cuts that we're seeing at the National Institutes of Health. What does it mean for you at home? The former long-time Director is my exclusive source, tonight.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tonight, the dramatic impact of the Trump administration's big cuts, at the National Institutes of Health, is now coming into focus.
According to a new analysis that was done -- that was done, the NIH, which is now, of course, overseen by our Health Secretary, here in the United States, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has terminated 780 research grants in nearly every state, as you can see here, including those that voted for President Trump in the 2024 election. And this is just a snapshot of what Americans are facing in this moment.
Staffing cuts have delayed the rollout of a promising cancer treatment. Alzheimer's studies are now in limbo in some places. Efforts to address vaccine hesitancy amid a growing measles outbreak have also been pulled back, while funding for HIV prevention has been halted.
My source tonight worked at the NIH, for 32 years, 12 years as the Director under Presidents Obama, Trump and Biden. Former Director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins joins me now.
It's great to have you. I should note, you retired from the agency, February 28th.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: That's right.
K. COLLINS: After those many years of service.
Are these cuts, what made you leave?
F. COLLINS: I found it was untenable for me to continue to stay in the role I was in, running a research lab at NIH. Things were very difficult, in terms of just being able to do the science, order supplies was very much cut off.
And I was basically in a situation, like all federal scientists, of being restricted from any kind of public statements. Even going to a scientific meeting was not allowed. I just didn't feel like I was doing much that was useful there.
K. COLLINS: You couldn't go to a scientific meeting?
F. COLLINS: No, not at that role--
K. COLLINS: What does that mean?
F. COLLINS: Basically, that was all shut down as part of the oversight of federal scientists that you might actually go to a meeting and say something that wasn't appreciated. So you basically weren't allowed to go.
K. COLLINS: When you say you couldn't order supplies. I saw where -- somewhere you had said, When the money was restored, it was literally for $1?
F. COLLINS: This was, yes, one of those moments like, Wait a minute, what are we thinking here?
For a while, you couldn't order any supplies. So, if you're doing stuff in the laboratory where you need some culture media to grow your cells in the incubator, you couldn't order that.
And then they released that, and said, OK, you can now use your purchasing card, a credit card, but you can't order anything that's more than $1. Obviously, that was pretty much nothing you could do at that point.
Again, I think a lot of decisions were made in a very slapdash way that were actually quite damaging to the ability of progress to go forward. Scientists at NIH were also told, Don't start any new projects. You can just work on things that you were working on before January 20th.
This is the nation's engine for innovation, and you're encouraged, generally, to come up with great ideas and pursue them. But this was quite the opposite of that.
[21:50:00]
K. COLLINS: Secretary Kennedy has argued that the overall, the agencies, the slashing, the cutting, is essentially to reduce things that are duplicative or mismanagement that it ultimately save, he says, taxpayers, $1.8 billion.
What would you say to that?
F. COLLINS: I would say that NIH, like all government agencies, is always in a situation of wanting to look closely at how it's conducting business, its efficiency. Is it -- are there places where things could be done with new approaches that would go faster and be cheaper?
But what is being done, in this instance, is very much the sledgehammer, and not the scalpel, firing lots, thousands of people, cutting budgets. At the moment, I think some $3 billion that normally would have been spent by NIH, at this time of year, has not been spent.
But Kaitlan, let me say, I don't think this is a partisan issue, and I want to be sure we don't convey that in this conversation. Medical research is something that we all traditionally have cared about, both parties have cared about. It's only this recent circumstance, where this has suddenly become political, because, I guess, in our country, everything is.
But listen to this. I think America, for the most part, wants to see advances about cancer, and diabetes, and Alzheimer's disease. And the idea that that would be slowed down, particularly in kind of a clumsy, destructive way, is really not what the people want. I think the polls are showing that. So maybe we could take this really bad three months here, and begin to learn from it, and turn this back around.
K. COLLINS: Have the three months been worse than you expected?
F. COLLINS: Vastly worse than I ever would have thought possible. And I've been through--
K. COLLINS: It's pretty scary for someone who's been there for his entire life (ph).
F. COLLINS: I have been through a lot of presidential transitions, over 32 years. And there's always bumps in that road, and especially hiring freezes happen. But this, this absolute flood of executive orders, and firings, and budget cuts, and restrictions on what you can do, that's never happened before.
K. COLLINS: I want to ask you about something that Secretary Kennedy said, last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic and we'll be -- we'll be able to eliminate those exposures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: He's talking about autism, finding out what causes it by September. Do you believe that is possible?
F. COLLINS: I don't know what he was referring to. We've been studying autism intensively now for decades. My own research has been involved in that, in certain ways, because it's clearly a genetic component that's important in this.
And we've learned a lot. The more severe cases of autism tend to be those for which you can identify a specific genetic misspelling that causes it. The milder cases are more complicated. There's probably some environmental thing going on that we don't understand.
But to think that somehow we could snap our fingers, and by September, that answers would suddenly be in front of us, I don't understand that. Maybe there's a way to put together a plan of that sort. Believe me, we all want to get those answers. But it's not as if we haven't been looking.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
F. COLLINS: Looking really hard.
K. COLLINS: Do you worry it gives parents maybe false hope?
F. COLLINS: Parents of kids with autism don't need any false hope. They're going through a lot, every day, wondering, What happened here? What should we be doing about it? What's the right intervention? And we've learned a lot to help them in that regard.
But this would be a bad time to suggest to them that some brand-new answer is right around the corner. That seems very unlikely.
K. COLLINS: Given your concerns, I wonder what you would say to just parents overall, who maybe are worried about the investments in research and health being cut in this way, and maybe other people don't fully realize the effects of that until much later on.
F. COLLINS: Yes, I would say to parents, whether you're in a rural community or in urban, whether you're on the coast or somewhere in the heartland, we all care about our kids. I do care about my kids and my grandkids.
We want something to be done to uncover the causes of some of these reasons why kids don't flourish the way we want them to. NIH is the central authority for making that happen. And it's been an amazing success story, over many decades.
The American ecosystem, for doing discovery about causes and cures, is the envy of the world. But right now, it's getting hammered by a lot of very draconian measures that are going to slow that down.
So I would think every parent would say, Wait a minute, let's make this a national priority. That's something we really care about, for ourselves, for our families, for our friends. We value health, and we ought to invest in it.
And by the way, another thing that hasn't been noticed, every dollar that's invested in NIH research, has a return on that investment of at least two and a half dollars in just one year. This is one of our greatest supporters of the economy as well. And that is also being hurt by these kinds of measures.
K. COLLINS: It's a pretty serious return on investment.
F. COLLINS: It is.
K. COLLINS: Dr. Francis Collins, thank you for coming on to share that tonight.
F. COLLINS: Nice to be with you, Kaitlan.
K. COLLINS: Appreciate your time.
Also, speaking of the White House today, in a bit of a celebratory note, the Philadelphia Eagles were there to tout their big Super Bowl win. It was who wasn't there though, that has also raised some eyebrows.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Welcome back to THE SOURCE.
I want to take you back to the White House today, and that special event with the Philadelphia Eagles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
K. COLLINS: I'm here on the South Lawn of the White House where the President is hosting the Philadelphia Eagles to celebrate their Super Bowl victory.
There's a lot of players who are here, including the star, Saquon Barkley. He actually flew with President Trump to Washington, yesterday, after first playing a round of golf with him here.
There is one player who is missing, though. That is the MVP of the team, Jalen Hurts, a University of Alabama alum, who is not here at the White House, we are told, according to a White House spokesperson, because of scheduling conflicts.
When he was on a red carpet, in New York, last week, he was asked whether or not he was coming to the White House for this. He was non- committal in that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning on visiting the White House next week?
JALEN HURTS, AMERICAN FOOTBALL QUARTERBACK: Umm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got it. Well, thank you so much. Yes.
[22:00:00]
K. COLLINS: Of course, this harkens back to 2018, after the Eagles last won the Super Bowl, when, famously, a lot of the players said they weren't going to come to the White House, when President Trump was in office. He ended up -- ended up sparking his ire, he actually uninvited them.
This time around, it's much different. President Trump became the first-ever sitting president to actually attend the Super Bowl in- person. Quickly after the Eagles won the Super Bowl, President Trump invited them here, to the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
K. COLLINS: Thank you so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
