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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Acknowledges Possible Toy Shortage Due To Tariffs; Sources: Rubio & Bukele Directly In Touch About Abrego Garcia; WSJ: Tesla Board Opened Search For A CEO To Succeed Elon Musk. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 30, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --some breaking news tonight, which could, and I should underscore, could, open the door to stopping the fighting in Ukraine, at least when it comes to facilitating the administration's help in getting to that point.
Less than a week after the President, and his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, briefly met at the Vatican, the U.S. and Ukraine have signed what's being called an economic partnership agreement. It will give Washington access, to Kyiv's rare earth minerals, in exchange for establishing an investment fund in Ukraine.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
President Trump says President Biden is to blame for the shrinking U.S. economy, not his trade war. Even though Biden left office 100 days ago. The President did warn kids in the United States today about how they might have to sacrifice on behalf of the country.
And tonight, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, won't say if he's been in touch with El Salvador's President, about bringing Kilmar Abrego Garcia, back to the United States. But CNN is learning tonight that he has. What our sources are telling us about that conversation?
Plus, the Trump Cabinet show was on full display today, at the White House, as the President gifted his top officials new MAGA merch. My source tonight is someone who has been in that very room.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
At the White House tonight, President Trump and his top economic aides have been warning Americans, that they might feel some short-term pain as a result of his trade war, which they've argued will be worth it in the long run.
But today, as the President was fielding questions about how the U.S. economy shrank in his first 100 days in office, the President also acknowledged that that short-term pain could be felt by children. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They made a trillion dollars with Biden, a trillion dollars, even a trillion one with Biden, selling their stuff, much of it we don't need. You know, somebody said, Oh, the shelves are going to be open. Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know, and maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, there have been moments, where presidents in the middle of a war have asked Americans to make do with less, but not necessarily because of a trade war that was started by the President. That acknowledgement came though, as President Trump today was calling for patience, while also blaming his predecessor, after new data showed numbers that he didn't like.
After claiming in January 2024, when he hadn't been in office for three years that, quote, This is the Trump stock market. The President wrote, today, in April 2025, when he certainly is in office, that This is Biden's Stock Market, not Trump's.
Later, in that same Cabinet meeting, the President said, Biden handed him a bad economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you look at the stock market, in this case, is it says how bad a situation we inherited. I took place -- this is a quarter that we looked at today. And I took -- we took -- all of us, together, we came in on January, 20th. So this is Biden, and you can even say the next quarter is sort of Biden, because it doesn't just happen on a daily or an hourly basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, that message did not resonate with at least one of the President's supporters. Barstool Sports founder, Dave Portnoy, posted this, and I'm quoting him now, "What's that old expression? Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining? Well that applies here. The stock market is a direct reflection of Trumps 1st 100 days in office. Doesn't mean it won't get better and that we don't need to be patient, but this is his market not Biden's."
My lead source tonight is the Independent senator of Vermont. He sits on both the Budget and Finance Committees. Senator Bernie Sanders joins us.
You've been out, talking to Americans. Do you think that they're prepared in the way that President Trump says they should be, today?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): No. Look, Kaitlan, I think one of the great political crises we face is we really don't appreciate the pain that ordinary people are feeling. You are living, ostensibly, in the richest country in the history of the world. 60 percent of people are living paycheck to paycheck, living under extraordinary stress, trying to put food on the table, pay their rent, worry what happens if their landlord raises the rent. Worried what happens if somebody gets sick, and they can't afford to go to the doctor.
That is the reality in the richest country on earth, for 60 percent of our people. Not to mention that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country, and too many of our seniors are living in poverty. That is the economic reality. And it's a reality that Trump is in the process of making even worse.
So when I go around the country, what I'm trying to do is rally the American people to say, Yes, of course, we've got to stand up to the horrific policies of Trump. But in addition to that, we need a political movement, which is going to stand with the working-class of this country, and take on the oligarchs, and create an economy that works for all of us, not just Elon Musk and his friends.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: So you're saying they don't have the breathing room that the White House seems to be saying, You got to give us a little -- a little grace here.
SANDERS: They don't. They really don't.
And it's a bit arrogant to say, Well, kids may have a smaller number of toys, and the price may go a little bit. I think billionaires, like Trump and Musk, do not have a clue about what it means for a working- class family, trying to buy presents for the kids, or to take care of the basic necessities of life. I think it's an incredible arrogance and ignorance on the part of these people, who have so much wealth, and so much money.
COLLINS: It is a pretty striking scene to see the President surrounded by many billionaires who were in that room that make up his Cabinet, telling kids that the shelves may be emptier, and they may not get as many toys.
SANDERS: Well, you only have to pay a few bucks more. Really? Well, for Trump, it doesn't matter. He's a billionaire.
But if you are struggling to take care of your family, that few bucks buying toys, or the increased price of groceries, or the increased rent that you may be paying, or the increased cost for an automobile that you may want to buy? Yes, that's a very big deal. I don't think the billionaire guys have a clue about what that's about.
COLLINS: He says President Biden is to blame for the last quarter of non-economic growth. It kind of went in reverse. And that he might be to blame for the current quarter. At what point do you think the President is responsible for this GDP?
SANDERS: Never. Never. He's never responsible for anything. It's always somebody else's fault. That's his modus operandi. He's always blaming somebody else, and takes no responsibility for anything. I can tell you this--
COLLINS: Do you think if it was good, though, that he would take credit for it?
SANDERS: Of course, you got to take credit for what you do.
And one of the things that's happening, and what's rattling the entire global economy, not just our economy, is this arbitrary trade war that he has started, the arbitrary tariffs that he has imposed on countries all over the world.
I mean, give you an example of what he has managed to accomplish. Canada is a longtime ally and friend of the United States. I live 50 miles away from the Canadian border, in Burlington, Vermont. Trump supported the Conservative candidate there. And these guys were ahead by 24 points, two months ago. Trump's support managed to cause them to lose the election.
And all over the world, people are responding to this Trumpism, and I think it's going to have a negative impact, thank God, on right-wing extremism, all over the world. Because people are saying, If this is what right-wing extremism is about, we don't want it.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Canadians have been so upset with the President's tariffs, and also how he's talked about making Canada the 51st state.
In terms of the trade war that he's carrying out. You have appeared with people like Shawn Fain, who's the President of the UAW, that you were two were together at an event in 2023, I think we have a picture of that.
Fain has been praising the President and his auto tariffs. He's been on this program saying, he likes that. Obviously, he was someone who was a supporter of Vice President Harris'.
Then there were exemptions that happened this week for those U.S. automakers.
When someone like that comes out and praises the President? And then he goes back on this to give them a temporary relief, as he called it? I wonder what you would say to someone like Shawn Fain about that.
SANDERS: Well, look, let me say a word. Tariffs unto themselves, unto themselves are not necessarily bad.
I helped lead the effort against Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, that trade agreement, and with NAFTA, the Canadian, Mexican trade agreement, because that was -- those were agreements written by Corporate America, and the goal was to allow corporations to lay off workers in America, shut down factories here, and move to poor countries around the world where people were making pennies an hour.
So selective utilization of tariffs to protect American workers and American industry is a good thing. But that is very different, than coming up with some crazy proposal based on nothing that anyone can understand, imposing arbitrary tariffs on virtually every country on Earth. That is kind of off the charts
COLLINS: If the President's policies continue as they are, and the economic data that we're seeing, do you think the U.S. is going to go into a recession?
SANDERS: Look, I fear that it might. And I would hope very much that my colleagues in the Democratic Party begin to bring forth an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families.
I think that one of the scary things that's happening in this country is that a whole lot of people are giving up on democracy itself, because they look at our government, and they say, Does anybody in Washington have a clue about what I am going through?
COLLINS: Yes, the polling is bad for Trump, but it's just as bad for Democrats who you caucus with.
SANDERS: Right. It is. And so, I think the answer is that people are saying, I am hurting. The rich are getting richer. Who cares about me?
[21:10:00]
So what we are fighting for, right now, is an agenda that speaks to the needs of working-class people. It is not good enough just to go after Trump. You've got to do that, but you need something in addition.
For example, you tell me, we have a health care system in America, which, in my view, is completely broken and dysfunctional. How often do you hear people talking about the need to do what every other major country on Earth does, guarantee health care to all people? Am I missing something? Do you hear that discussion?
COLLINS: No, but I'm glad you brought that up, because on this front, we pressed Senator Schumer, about this, last night, in terms of what is the strategy coming from Democrats on the Hill. Do you guys have a cohesive message in how to deal with Trump, a 100 days in.
This is one -- part of what he had to say in response to that
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Our caucus is united. Look at this. The Republicans on this upcoming reconciliation bill, which sets the funding for the whole government, they're fighting with each other.
Compare that to the Democrats. We're totally united. We're totally united in my caucus.
SANDERS: What Democrats lack right now is a vision for the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm assuming you're--
SANDERS: I think that last guy was right, not the other guy, but the guy was on last.
COLLINS: So, I mean, it's not surprising, you believe you're right, and Senator Schumer is wrong here.
SANDERS: You need an agenda. Did you hear what -- united around what? Are we united around guaranteeing health care to all people? I am proud, by the way, that the Democrats supported an amendment that I offered to raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour. That's a start. Are we united in tackling a corrupt campaign finance system?
Now, you tell me. You're an observer of these things. How do you deal with politics in America without understanding that billionaires play an enormously destructive role in both political parties?
COLLINS: Well, and you've been on this oligarchy tour, fighting the oligarchs--
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --across the United States. I'm going to show your -- the crowds in a moment, because I want to get to that.
But Senator Elissa Slotkin, a Democrat who's new to the Senate, said that she doesn't think that that's helpful, but that's a good tactic for people like you to be using. James Carville was saying, You know, people like AOC and Bernie, they're not winning elections.
Well, I mean, I do wonder what you make of that, because it is a real question of--
SANDERS: Well, look, I--
COLLINS: --what voters are trying to--
SANDERS: That is part of the old Democratic establishment, and they are interested in winning elections, which is very, very important. But in my view, you can't win elections unless you have something to say to the vast majority of the people in this country.
I do not think that Donald Trump won the election because he promised tax breaks for billionaires, and to cut Medicaid and nutrition and education. That's not why he won the election. He won the election because a lot of people are saying, Who is going to do anything? And Trump comes along, I'm going to smash the system. People say, Yes, well, I'll take a chance, better than nothing.
What the Democrats need to do right now is to have the courage to take on the very powerful special interests who, to a large degree, control the political process and the legislative process in the United States.
COLLINS: And you clearly don't seem to think they're doing that. I will also say Trump says he won't cut Medicaid. We'll see what Republicans do on the Hill.
You -- Trump was in Warren, Michigan, last night. You were just there, not long ago.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: And last night, when Trump was in Warren, he made a point about crowd sizes between the two of you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And you know when they say that Bernie -- Bernie is probably the best they have. By the way, he's about seven years older than me, more, eight years older.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: One thing, I got to give him credit, he's a lunatic, but he's still pretty sharp. And he's going around with AOC plus three. You know, the plus three follow them. They hang on for little bits. They hang on for nuggets. And they get crowds. They say, Oh the crowd was -- our crowds are so much bigger than their crowds. Their crowds are smaller. If I ever had a crowd like their biggest crowd, they'd say, It's over for Trump, he's lost the magic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I think you're a little more than four years older than him.
SANDERS: Something I--
COLLINS: If I'm right.
SANDERS: He didn't -- I know, it will shock the audience. The President did not tell the truth. All right, I realize that will shock everybody, but that's the case.
And in terms of the -- not that we want to get into crowd size, why would anyone want to do that? We had twice the turnout in Warren than he had the other night. Yes.
COLLINS: And what does that tell you?
SANDERS: Well, it tells me not only about Warren, Michigan. It tells me, all over the country, that you are seeing a growing anger against Trumpism, against economic policies designed to help the billionaire class, and cut Medicaid and food stamps and working people -- the needs of working people.
And it tells me also that people are outraged by the richest guy on Earth, Mr. Musk, going around, laying off people in the Veterans Administration and Social Security.
[21:15:00]
And people are very worried about this movement toward authoritarianism. Having representatives, agents of the federal government picking people up off the streets, throwing them in cars, and bringing them to detention centers without having -- making any charges against them.
COLLINS: I have a question about one of your constituents, who this happened to.
But on the crowd sizes, I do wonder, because I've been watching your tour, really closely. What would you say to a skeptic, though, who said, I just watched Vice President Harris get massive crowd sizes, and she didn't win any swing states in the election.
SANDERS: Look, I don't -- you know, rallies are rallies, and crowd sizes are crowd sizes. I don't want to overplay it.
All I would say is I'm not running for anything, running around the country with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, did a great job with us, and it was a huge turnout for -- we're not asking anyone to vote for anybody. We're just saying, Let's stand up and let's fight back against Trumpism. Let's fight back against oligarchy. Fight back against authoritarianism.
COLLINS: In your home state of Vermont, a federal judge did just order the release of a Columbia University student, a Palestinian man, who is a permanent resident here, and was actually in his naturalization interviews, who had been arrested for leading protests against the war in Gaza. Secretary Rubio has argued that he was working against U.S. foreign policy. His case isn't over, but he can now fight it outside of court.
What was your reaction to his release?
SANDERS: Gratification. I'm really glad that the judge ruled the way he did. There were no charges leveled against Mr. Mahdawi, and he was put in the detention center.
And in America, we have a Constitution which provides for due process. Somebody cannot pick you up off the street, and then put you in a jail. There has to be a charge. There has to be a process. You have to have legal representation.
So what the Trump administration is doing is extremely dangerous. And I applaud the judge for his very sensible decision.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time tonight, as always.
SANDERS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Appreciate you joining us.
A quick programming note. The GM CEO, Mary Barra, is going to join Erin Burnett, my colleague, to talk about tariffs, economic uncertainty, what she's doing in these times. That interview will air first on "CNN NEWS CENTRAL," tomorrow morning, at 08:00 a.m. Eastern here. Don't miss it. Up next. We do have new CNN reporting tonight, as I mentioned, on the case of that man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador. There are direct talks happening now, between the administration and the President of El Salvador. What will they mean? Next.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, multiple sources are telling CNN that Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, has been directly in touch with El Salvador's President Bukele, over the man who was mistakenly deported from the U.S. to there.
One official tells CNN, the White House has privately asked for Kilmar Abrego Garcia's return to the United States, despite what the President and his own officials have said publicly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you plan to ask President Bukele to help return the man who your administration says was mistakenly deported to El Salvador?
TRUMP: Which one is this?
COLLINS: The man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador?
TRUMP: Well, let me ask Pam. Would you ask -- answer that question?
PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sure, President.
That's up to El Salvador if they want to return him. That's not up to us.
TRUMP: Would you answer that question also please?
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes, gladly.
So, as Pam mentioned, he's an illegal alien from El Salvador.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now we are told lately that the President Bukele has made clear that he has no intention of returning Abrego Garcia to the United States, citing what happened in the Oval Office meeting that you just saw.
Asked about this reporting today, during the Cabinet meeting, Secretary Rubio declined to confirm his conversations with Bukele, but said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I would never tell you that. And you know who else I'll never tell? A judge. Because the conduct of our foreign policy belongs to the President of the United States and the executive branch, not some judge. So we will conduct foreign policy appropriately, if we need to, but I'll never discuss it, and no one will ever make us discuss, because that's how foreign policy works.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Rina Gandhi, one of the attorneys representing Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Also a partner at the immigration firm -- law firm, Murray Osorio.
And it's great to have you here.
Have you been told by the White House about any effort or any conversations with President Bukele to get your client back?
RINA GANDHI, ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA, PARTNER, MURRAY OSORIO: It's interesting that as this case develops, so much comes out in the media, and yet, in our courts, we're still pushing forward to -- towards discovery. I can't speak of what we've learned in discovery. However, Senator Rubio making these public statements is quite interesting.
COLLINS: You can't say what you've learned in discovery. But can you tell us whether you have learned new information as a part of this process?
GANDHI: So the process was stayed until just very recently today, and we do have more time to do depositions and gather -- receive information and documentation.
COLLINS: OK. So, you're still hopeful that you could get more information essentially?
GANDHI: Well, part of this process is to understand who said what to who, where he is, necessarily, and what has been done. So, yes, I do believe that given the judge's denial of the continued stay, the intention is to get more information.
COLLINS: Do these reported discussions that you clearly are saying you've learned about in the media, between the U.S. and El Salvador, about your client, and getting him returned? Does it give you hope that he ultimately will be returned to the United States?
GANDHI: I believe in the process. I believe in our court system. And absolutely, I have to believe that he is coming home.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: In an interview that President Trump did, last night, he was asked about allegations that your client has tattoos that are essentially MS-13 on his -- on his knuckles. I want to show you the photo. We've seen the photo that the President had, essentially translates that they say that they would stand for MS-13.
But listen to what the President had to say about this, last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You'll pick out one man, but even the man that you picked out--
TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS ANCHOR & SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's got--
TRUMP: --he said he'd -- wasn't a member of a gang. And then they looked, and--
MORAN: All right.
TRUMP: --on his knuckles, he had MS-13.
MORAN: There's dis -- there's a dispute over that.
TRUMP: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He had MS-13--
MORAN: Well--
TRUMP: --on his knuckles tattooed.
MORAN: --he -- he -- he -- it didn't say-- oh, he had some tattoos that are inper -- interpreted that way. But let's move on.
TRUMP: Wait a minute.
MORAN: I want--
TRUMP: Hey, Terry. Terry. Terry.
MORAN: He -- he did not have the letter--
TRUMP: Don't do that.
MORAN: --M-S-1-3.
TRUMP: It says M-S-1-3.
MORAN: I -- that was Photoshop. So let me just--
TRUMP: That was Photoshop? Terry, you can't do that.
MORAN: He had--
TRUMP: Hey, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you're doing the interview. I picked you because -- frankly I never heard of you, but that's OK--
MORAN: This -- I knew this would come--
TRUMP: But I picked you -- Terry -- but you're not being very nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do those tattoos show to you? GANDHI: Not much. Not much at all. We have yet to speak to our client to get his side of why he was motivated to get certain symbols. Gang experts have weighed in all across the news and media, and have not stated or not found these to be regular, common, known symbols for gangs. We have no idea.
COLLINS: OK.
GANDHI: And the government has never made this accusation before, in a court of law.
COLLINS: Can I ask you about something else that they have -- that they have alleged, though, and publicly, is the Department of Homeland Security revealed this.
GANDHI: Yes.
COLLINS: They say that his wife filed a petition for protection against him in August of 2020, alleging that he physically abused her, including slapping her and locking her in a bedroom. They say that this proves he has a track record of violence.
What is your response to that?
GANDHI: Bring him back here. Present this in a court of law. Make your case. Let a judge decide, look at the actual evidence, hear from him, and we can move forward from there. But until he's back, none of this matters.
We're distracting from the point, which is that he was removed against a court order that prevented him from being removed to the very country they removed him to, and a court has ordered his return to the United States.
COLLINS: Rina Gandhi, thank you for your time tonight.
Also joining me here is my deeply-sourced White House insider, Zolan Kanno-Youngs of The New York Times, who, with his colleagues, wrote a fantastic story today about concerns that El Salvador's president had about who the United States was actually sending there.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: That's right. So throughout this process, the White House has maintained that and justified these deportations to El Salvador, by saying that the more than 200 Venezuelans were all gang members, that they were all hardened criminals.
Our reporting showed that not only were immigration attorneys, and relatives, and the region concerned that these folks were wrongly imprisoned.
But shortly after the people arrived in this prison, and were locked away, that the President of El Salvador himself, the person who had agreed to jail these immigrants, that he also was questioning whether the administration had actually sent him convicted criminals, had actually sent him members of Tren de Aragua. That's according to people familiar with the matter, and government documents that we've obtained as well.
COLLINS: And he actually pressed the White House on this, which you report, set off a kind of a scramble inside the West Wing.
KANNO-YOUNGS: After the fact, right? After these folks were already imprisoned, you then have a U.S. official, a senior U.S. official, telling his peers, the matter is urgent, that we actually need to send information to El Salvador after the fact, showing that each of these folks are members of Tren de Aragua.
They did send government documents. The State Department tells us they sent a scorecard that basically assesses tattoos and clothing, and based off of that point system search that somebody is a gang member.
It seems that they did satisfy Bukele, because he's continued to be a partner of President Trump, to be fair. But this all shows, really, the haphazard nature of this process, and what seems to be the little regard the administration had, before sending these people to this prison for ensuring that each of these folks were gang members.
COLLINS: Yes, even by the President of El Salvador himself.
KANNO-YOUNGS: That's right.
COLLINS: Zolan, excellent story. You can read it at The New York Times.com. Thank you for sharing that with us.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. It's a picture that is worth a 1,000 words. The President's signature red hats on display during his televised Cabinet meeting. My source knows what it's like inside that room. He'll speak with us, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Inside the White House today, President Trump assembled his Cabinet for a meeting as his second term hits 101 days. The two-hour affair happened in front of the cameras, and was reminiscent of past Cabinet meetings. This time with red hats that said Gulf of America on them, as many of the Cabinet took turns offering praise to President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: President, your first 100 days has far exceeded that of any other presidency in this country. Ever. Ever. Never seen anything like it. Thank you.
RUBIO: Thank you for the honor to be able to serve alongside you, for you and alongside all these excellent people.
[21:35:00] DOUG BURGUM, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: Everybody I've met, whether it's in a coal mine or at the border, law enforcement, the one thing they say on those trips is, Please thank President Trump, from all of us. The change that you're making.
PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: What we've seen since your election and the inauguration was -- has been nothing short of a recruiting renaissance.
LEE ZELDIN, ADMINISTRATOR OF THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY: This is the 100th day of the most consequential, historic, first 100 days in the history of this country.
ELON MUSK, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think this could be the greatest administration since the founding of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight knows what it's like to be at that table. John Bolton was Trump's National Security Advisor in his first term.
Ambassador, it's great to have you here.
I wonder, when you watch these meetings, do you have deja vu?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Yes, it really is a repetition of many of the Cabinet meetings that Trump had in his first term.
And, at one level, it's kind of hilarious to watch these people compete, to praise their master. But in another, it's really pretty disturbing from the perspective of a republic, where citizens are supposed to be equal.
It's reminiscent of ancient Chinese Imperial courts where people kowtow to the Emperor. Here, it's verbally kowtowing. They're not getting down on their knees, prostrating themselves on the floor, banging their forehead on the floor three times, in a really, traditional kowtow. But they're doing it verbally.
And I would be embarrassed for them. I'd actually be embarrassed for Trump, except this is what he thinks the purpose of this -- these meetings are for. Not to lay out what the Cabinet officials are doing to report to their fellow Cabinet members, but to praise Trump, and of course, to do it in front of television. These aren't really Cabinet meetings in any sense of the word. They're just photo opportunities.
COLLINS: When it got around the table to Vice President Vance, this is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: You sit in the Oval Office, and you see these portraits of presidents past, and let's be honest, most of them have been placeholders. They've been people who have allowed their staff to sign executive orders with an autopen instead of men of action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I should note in the Oval, right now, there are portraits of Reagan, Roosevelt's, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln.
I wonder what you made of that comment.
BOLTON: Well, I think it just shows how far the pandering can go. JD Vance is more educated than that. He must have learned something at Yale Law School. Maybe not. But George Washington did a thing or two in his first 100 days. Abraham Lincoln faced a civil war.
This is just the -- this is the Ministry of Propaganda at the White House operating here. And I think, as I say, in a sense, it's really pretty funny to watch. But I think repetition of this is wearing thin on people, and they can see that this is, really, it's made for television, made for an audience of one, Donald Trump.
And if Cabinet members don't perform adequately, if they don't praise the President adequately? You saw Pete Hegseth, just going overboard there. You know, their jobs are in danger. That's really not the way to run a government. It's not the way to run a normal American government, let's put it that way.
COLLINS: Well, one thing that was top of mind, behind-the-scenes today, was the U.S. and Ukraine signing a deal that has been months in the making. It, in essence, is supposed to give the United States access to Kyiv's rare earth minerals.
And the President was just asked about this tonight, and he said, We made a deal today where we get much more, in theory, than the $350 billion, but I wanted to be protected. He said, quote, I didn't want to be out there and look foolish.
I wonder what you make of his view of this deal, and what it portends for Vladimir Putin here?
BOLTON: Well, I think -- of course, we haven't seen the actual text of the deal yet, and you can't analyze it entirely from press reports.
But it looks like Ukraine rolled back much of what Trump wanted to begin with, that it will not require repaying for weapons and ammunition and other assistance given before Trump took office. You can argue about whether Ukraine should have had to pay for it to begin with, but to go back retroactively, I think was very unfair.
What's going to come of this deal? I don't know. Mining is not something you begin one day and finish in 30 days. It takes a lot of effort and a lot of capital to dig a mine. I'm not sure how much investment there's going to be.
And I think the idea that somehow the prospect of investment and participating in the revenues from this fund will be a security guarantee for Ukraine, is a cruel delusion. I don't think many American or other foreign companies are going to do any investing in Ukraine, unless they think there's no prospect of a third Russian invasion if we get a ceasefire, which we don't have anyway.
COLLINS: Ambassador John Bolton, we will stay tuned and monitor it all. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us tonight.
BOLTON: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: We're also getting some breaking news from The Wall Street Journal, just this hour. It's a headline that reads, Tesla Board Opened Search for a CEO to Succeed Elon Musk.
[21:40:00]
You read the story, sources are telling The Journal that Tesla's Board members started reaching out to several executive search firms, initiating a formal process to replace Musk.
My source joining me tonight is The Wall Street Journal's Emily Glazer, who just broke this reporting.
And Emily, thanks for joining us on such breaking news.
Can you just tell us what happened here and what the Board of Tesla was thinking?
EMILY GLAZER, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Absolutely.
So, Tesla has been going through some pain lately. It just reported earnings, last week, and had profits decline about 70 percent.
And our reporting shows that around a month ago, Board members were reaching out to executive recruiting firms to start a formal CEO succession search process. This is a formal kind of next chapter. Obviously,
companies do succession planning, all the time, for their next leader. But we know that this is happening as there was concern from investors about Musk spending too much time in D.C., given his government role, and concern about the company really struggling lately.
We also know that Board members, prior to earnings, had an update. They gathered with Elon Musk, and they said to him that, We really need you to refocus on Tesla, and we need you to say it publicly. And he did not push back.
COLLINS: That's pretty remarkable, given we saw him come out and say he'd step away from the DOGE effort.
And part of your reporting that stood out to me is where you said that some Tesla employees said the first time they had heard from him in months was that an all-hands meeting that they had in March, where you report, If you read the news, he said it, quote, "It feels like Armageddon... I can't walk past a TV without seeing a Tesla on fire..." These are "times when there are rocky moments, a little bit of stormy weather, but I'm here to tell you" that "the future is bright and exciting. What I'm saying is," quote, "hang on to your stock." GLAZER: Interesting message from a CEO. That was actually streamed on X. And so, our understanding is that Elon Musk has not spent much time at Tesla offices. He has been calling into meetings. He's been joining virtually. And that's something that we know a Board member shared with some major investors, because they were concerned.
And we also -- our understanding is that one Board member actually told investors that they did need to brief Elon more, at times, ahead of Board meetings.
So look, it's been no secret. Elon Musk has been spending a lot of time in Washington, D.C. He's been at Trump's side. He's been in Mar- a-Lago. He has five companies that he oversees. Tesla is one of them. But Tesla is public, and Tesla is the biggest. It's got a market cap of around $900 billion.
COLLINS: Do we know if Elon Musk was aware of the effort that was underway to potentially replace him?
GLAZER: We do not know if he was aware of the effort, and we also don't know the status of this. So, there are definitely some unknowns out there.
But it is a big deal, and usually a turning point, for any company to reach out and hire an executive recruiting firm. This is usually when they would start this formal process of looking at internal and external candidates, kind of examining their slate, so to speak, of who could be the next CEO.
And something else to consider is that, Tesla doesn't have a very deep bench. There have been a number of top executives that have left more recently. Our reporting also shows that Elon Musk, at least, according to an internal document, has more than 20 direct reports at Tesla.
So, there's quite a lot going on in the company right now. For the first time in quite some time, its car sales fell. Its stock shot up after President Trump won the presidency. And let's not forget, Elon Musk contributed more than $250 million toward Donald Trump's reelection efforts. Some consumers have been pushed back. There's been some brand damage. People have bumper stickers saying that--
COLLINS: Yes.
GLAZER: --on their Teslas, that they don't necessarily support Elon Musk. So there's been a rocky road, recently, for this company. And it's only one of the five that Elon Musk oversees.
COLLINS: Well, and I think, in terms of how this works, would they be able to remove him without his consent? I mean, how does this work behind-the-scenes, in terms of what the Board could do here?
GLAZER: Well, Elon Musk is a major shareholder. He owns, I believe, more than 10 percent of Tesla's stock.
So this is not like a typical company, where a Board decides that they are ready to get into this next phase, and they hire an external recruiter, and they look at all their various candidates, and then they make a decision around how that all shakes out. Usually, CEOs are very involved in that process. And of course, Elon Musk is on the Board as well. But when you've got someone who also is a major shareholder, it changes that process.
[21:45:00]
We've reported quite a bit, at The Wall Street Journal, about how close Elon Musk is with his Board members. We've reported that in some cases, he has used drugs with his Board members.
So I would just say this is not your average CEO succession process, and I just want to emphasize that we are -- after Elon Musk said, last week, during earnings, that he plans to refocus and recommit to Tesla, it's unclear where the status of this CEO search process is going.
COLLINS: Emily Glazer, it is some fascinating reporting. Thank you for joining us on the breaking news this hour. Really appreciate your quick work.
GLAZER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. Here in Washington, the President's pick for D.C.'s top prosecutor is facing new scrutiny tonight, after he told senators, under oath, he doesn't recall denigrating police officers, who were injured on January 6th, despite sound of him doing just that. New CNN reporting, next.
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[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Ed Martin is the attorney that President Trump has selected to take on the top federal prosecutor job, here in the nation's capital. And he now claims that he did not recall some of his most controversial statements, when he was questioned under oath about them by members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
CNN's KFILE uncovered a lot of these comments.
And in one instance, when Martin was asked, if he remembered equating a Democratic politician to Adolf Hitler, he replied, quote, "I do not recall doing so." Though he certainly did so on his own podcast in 2022.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED MARTIN, INTERIM U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: There's only one character on the world stage right now who actually is utilizing some of the techniques, maybe many of them, that were used by people like Hitler and by Hitler himself. And that's Joe Biden. President Joe Biden is Hitler. And I am not joking when I say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Martin also told the committee he would, quote, Never promote or engage in white nationalism or antisemitism. That, despite previously appearing on a podcast hosted by VDARE, which the Anti- Defamation League says is a racist and anti-immigrant website that features many white supremacists.
My sources joining me here at the table tonight:
Elliot Williams, who is a former federal prosecutor himself.
And Marc Short, who was the former Chief of Staff to Vice President Mike Pence.
Do you believe these comments are disqualifying for this role? How do you see this?
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VP MIKE PENCE: Look, I think that there's been a lot of news around Ed and January 6. I think January 6, as you know, was a tragedy. I think that comments that were, I think, derogatory about our law enforcement are wrong. But having said that, I actually -- some of the comments he seemed to be retracting some of his previous statements. So I take that as a positive sign.
COLLINS: It does seem to be a pattern of the Trump picks, when they are under confirmation hearings, to either soften or walk back a lot of the things they've said previously, even if it wasn't really that long ago.
SHORT: Fair, but at the same time, I think you'd have to be encouraged, at least in some level, that he's actually walking back some of the statements that he made about January 6. I take that as a positive, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: I guess it's better than him standing by that.
I mean, what do -- I've heard a lot from attorneys, I should note, here in Washington, even people who are pretty conservative lawyers, or have worked for President Trump previously, looking at Ed Martin and this pick, and saying, What?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Let me add my voice to the course, Kaitlan. I worked under both Republican and Democratic presidents, including in that office, in the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office.
And I will be clear, the President is entitled to have his own people. Presidential administrations come every four or eight years, and a new wave of folks come in.
That said, Ed Martin is manifestly unfit for that job. And it goes back even before you get to the quibbling about whether the guy, he's palling around with, is a Nazi, even before you get that he's never been a prosecutor, has limited criminal law experience, except for representing January 6 defendants, is not from the jurisdiction, he's not from Washington, D.C. So all these reasons make this person a person who should not have this role.
This is on, really, the Senate, which is vetting his nomination, to really ask the questions, and just vote this down. It's simple.
COLLINS: One of the questions they were asked is if he had ever denigrated the service of any police officer, who suffered injuries while defending the Capitol on January 6th. You just mentioned him walking back some of his statements. He said, quote, Not that I recall.
Cue to one year ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: With him were two of the guys who have claimed that they were officers, they were officers on January 6th that have claimed that they got really mistreated, except as someone yelled out of the crowd, they both appear to have lied. It looks like they lied and maybe committed perjury. Fanone is one name, and Dunn is the other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mike Fanone and Harry Dunn are heroes. I mean, there's video of them being beat up by people on that day.
SHORT: Absolutely no doubt that officers were assaulted that day, and there were -- there were Capitol Police officers who were heroes that day. And it's wrong to have suggested otherwise.
Again, I think that you look at his statements today, and they're different from what he said in the past. And so, hopefully, he's changed his perspective on that.
COLLINS: I'm kind of surprised by your comments on this, actually, Marc.
SHORT: Look, I mean, you've heard me say before, I think that January 6 is a tragedy. I don't think there's any excuse for the actions that happened that day, or for those who helped to incite the violence that day. I think that -- I try to take incursion when we see people actually recanting positions they've had before on that.
COLLINS: How do you think people will feel in the D.C. office if he is ultimately put into that job in a permanent basis?
WILLIAMS: You mean the few that are left that haven't been demoted or moved to other jobs, or moved out to jobs outside of their expertise?
COLLINS: And to remind people, he keeps getting frustrated, because he sends out emails, and people leak his emails that he sends out, like minutes after he sends them.
WILLIAMS: Yes. So--
COLLINS: It's not a good culture.
WILLIAMS: No, it's not a good culture. It's a toxic culture. Everyone I've spoken to who's there, or even at headquarters, it is a toxic culture that has been created there. Again, Republicans, Democrats, they come in, they come, they go. It's fine. That's how government works. This is not the way it should be working. He should not have this role.
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Elliot Williams, and Marc Short, great to have you both here.
SHORT: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. The Trump family has made a deal that is reigniting concerns from some ethics folks over foreign influence. It has to deal with a particular trip the President is taking next month. Those details, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just two weeks before President Trump is expected to travel to the Middle East, his family's business is making deals in the region. With his son, Eric Trump, who runs his business day to day, was in Qatar, after announcing a new Trump-branded beachside villa community and a golf course in the country.
[22:00:00]
This is the first foreign deal that the Trump Organization has made since the President returned to office for a second time. Much like it did the first time he was in office, it has sparked outrage from government watchdogs that say they are alarmed by the two partners spearheading this new project. A firm with close ties to the Saudi royal family, and a real estate company owned by the Qatari government.
When the Associated Press asked for clarification from this, I should note, the Trump Organization said its deal was only with the Saudi firm, not the Qatari one.
More to come on that. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
