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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Waltz Replaced By Rubio As National Security Adviser; Vance Says Waltz's Ouster Not Signal Scandal; Waltz Appears To Use Signal After Trump said "Maybe Don't Use it"; Politico: Ketanji Brown Jackson Condemns Trump's Attacks On Judges; Tim Cook: Trump Tariffs Could Cost Apple $900 Million This Quarter; Elon Musk: DOGE Is A "Long-Term Enterprise"; Trump Cheers Alabama Football, Basketball At Commencement Speech. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired May 01, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do not watch any of the media. She says, you know, I have some influences I follow, Candace Owens being a big deal, and Newsmax. And that is their information system.

And listen, these are -- these are hardworking people. They're good people. They care about the country, but they are in a completely different information environment than people who I talk to every day.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yeah. Hey, Jones. Thanks very much. And that's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: -- THE SOURCE tonight, down but not out. Mike Waltz demoted as President Trump gives Secretary Marco Rubio another title. I have an inside look at how the first big shakeup of Trump's second term unfolded today.

Plus, hitting the bottom line, Tim Cook just revealed exactly how much money he believes that President Trump's tariffs could cost Apple and what it means for iPhone users.

Also, tonight, Elon Musk is lashing out a report that Tesla's Board was planning to replace him as he shares his departing thoughts on DOGE, compares himself to Buddha, and also dishes about sleepovers in the Lincoln bedroom.

I'm Kaitlan Collins, and this is THE SOURCE. Tonight, the Trump turnover has returned because after burning through top advisers at a record pace in his first term, the relative stability when it comes to his staffing this time around has been a noticeable change.

I say was because President Trump ousted his National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz, from that key role today, making it the first major overhaul in his senior team. Let me take you what happened inside the White House today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Just a few moments ago, President Trump finally acknowledged that he was indeed ousting Mike Waltz as his National Security Adviser. He announced on a Truth Social post that instead he is going to nominate Waltz as the next ambassador for the U.S. to the United Nations. That's a role he'll carry out if Senate confirmed in New York.

And the President instead says he is making the Secretary of State Marco Rubio the next interim national security adviser, meaning he'll serve in both positions, something that we haven't seen at the White House since Henry Kissinger did so for President Richard Nixon.

We're standing here on the South Lawn, waiting for President Trump to exit the Oval Office right over there. We have not yet heard from him in person on the first major shakeup of his second term. That is the ouster of the National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz, who he says he will be tapping to go be the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations.

We'll wait to see what he has to say about that if he speaks to reporters as he leaves the White House and heads for Alabama. Mr. President, any comment on Mike Waltz? Any comment on Mike Waltz, Mr. President?

So we just left the South Lawn departure. President Trump did not come over and speak to reporters despite shouted questions about his outgoing National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now this change means that, if confirmed, Waltz will be trading his corner office in the West Wing that is just a few steps away from the Oval Office for one that's 200 miles and a plane ride away in New York.

And speaking of flights, I have been hearing from sources all week that something was going on with Mike Waltz. His role was in limbo, I was told. A lot of it had to do in part because of this moment from the President's trip to Michigan on Tuesday.

Now you're looking at the South Lawn. This is Waltz's boarding Marine One with President Trump at the White House. Reporters are standing there watching. It's about a 10 minute flight to here, Joint Base Andrews, where they landed and noticed there, Waltz does not get on Air Force One. He doesn't climb the stairs with President Trump and the rest of the senior aides who were traveling.

Now that obviously raised some questions why he took the flight there but didn't actually get on the plane. I was told he was not on the manifest for Air Force One, but it still raised a lot of eyebrows. Cut to today, of course, and he has now ousted from this role. And all of this happened so quickly.

The State Department spokesperson was informed in the middle of a press conference by my colleague, Kylie Atwood, that her boss, Secretary of State Rubio, was going to be taking over Waltz's position.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY REPORTER: Do you know how long he's going to be serving in both roles?

TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: It is clear that I just heard this from you. I had I -- this is -- the magic --

ATWOOD: No heads up that this was coming.

BRUCE: Well, I have, some insights as to the potential of certain things that might happen. But when the President and this, of course, is all Presidential decisions. Right? So I'm with the State Department. It is -- as I think would be clear to all of you, you don't want to get ahead of your skis in drawing conclusions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now Waltz's position in the President's inner circle had been tenuous even before he had added a reporter to a chat on Signal where then the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, sent and talked about sensitive military operations. Because as far back as the transition, there were some people in Trump's orbit who speculated that Waltz could actually be the first to be fired.

Obviously, it's much easier to fire a national security adviser than it is a cabinet official. And even though he wrote two days ago about the 100 days of national security wins, Waltz's foreign policy views never really fully meshed with the President's, and he, at times, clashed with other senior aides inside the West Wing.

Now, the official who is responsible for accidentally exposing the administration's use of Signal is leaving the West Wing, but not before inadvertently showing everyone that they are apparently still using it.

[21:05:00]

Look at what a Reuters photographer captured yesterday, Waltz's checking his phone in yesterday's cabinet meeting, and there it is, Signal. And you can see the messages of the Secretary of State, Trump's special envoy, the Director of National Intelligence, and there at the end, J.D. Vance, the VICE PRESIDENT, all on the screen.

Now the White House didn't deny that he was using Signal. They couldn't really given, you could see it in that picture. And instead, a spokesman wrote tonight, quote, "Signal is an approved app that is loaded onto our government phones. Thank you for your attention to this matter."

My sources tonight are an experienced group of former top national security and intelligence officials. It's great to have you all here. Beth, let me just start with you in terms of, what you make of this being the first big departure that we are seeing from Trump's inner circle, even if they are framing it as a promotion, essentially. BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah. You know, I may shock people here, but I actually think this is a good move. And I think it's a good move because it wasn't working. This particular position is so important in coordinating and making sure that the President's policy is being executed, and he was failing in that.

When you look at the Signal chat and you read it like an intel officer, you can see that he was not executing his role as national security adviser. He was not providing that strategic vision. He was not telling everybody to stop. The President had already made a decision. He wasn't offering to go to the President to redo the decision. I feel like he was doing a bad job, and I think that the President should have someone there who is of the same mind in -- and implementing his policies.

COLLINS: Yeah. I wonder what you make of how this all came down in terms of, you know, it was reported this morning there was a rumor that he was going to be ousted and his principal deputy, then we reconfirmed it. The White House kind of waited a little bit before actually getting to this. And the vice President, J.D. Vance, he weighed in tonight because President Trump was not answering questions, and this is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JD VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So he wasn't let go. He is being made Ambassador to United Nations, which, of course, is a senate confirmed position. I think he can make a good argument that it's a promotion. The media wants to frame this as a firing. Donald Trump has fired a lot of people. He doesn't give them senate confirmed appointments afterwards. What he thinks is that Mike Waltz is going to better serve the administration, most importantly, the American people in that role.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Do you think it's viewed that way as a promotion?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely not. There's no comparison between these two jobs in terms of which is more significant. The national security adviser to the President of The United States, you are literally a heartbeat away from every one of the most significant national security decisions a President will ever make, or that's the way it's supposed to work.

I think it's from the first administration, the first Trump administration, it was pretty clear that he -- the President wasn't quite -- wasn't particularly interested in what was going on at the UN. He's not someone who has ever made that a priority of his national security decisions. So no.

I think everything about this course of events, the way this played out today, there are several indicators of a of a distinct lack of preparation. The fact that the reporting came out early this morning, and then it wasn't refuted or acknowledged in any way for hours. Eventually, this kind of what appears to have been a late idea, this plot hatches to move him into the UN Ambassador's role. I mean, each piece of this has the kind of reek of, like, hey, that's a good idea. Let's do that.

COLLINS: Well, and that Reuters photo would be remarkable even if he had not been removed from this position because, I mean, this was just taken yesterday. He happened to be checking his phone. This cabinet meeting's gone for quite some time, and he was using Signal, which is notable, because, yes, the Steven Chung at the White House is saying, you know, this is on our phones. It's downloaded.

The President did just say the other day that he wanted people to stop using Signal. And so that was his piece of advice is, hey, maybe don't use it.

JAMIL JAFFER, FORMER SENIOR COUNSEL, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, look, I will say this. If you want to communicate with anybody, right, you want to use text messages, which are easily hackable. You want to use WhatsApp. You want to use Signal. If you're going to use one thing, if you're going to make regular phone calls, we know the -- we know the Chinese are all over our telecom networks. Right? We learned that in the in the Salt Typhoon attack.

If you're going to use something -- might as well use Signal, at least it's encrypted end to end. Right? Not ideal, but better than regular phones or --

COLLINS: But don't they have their own system that they could be using a government system?

JAFFER: Sure.

COLLINS: I mean, they're not us at this table.

JAFFER: No. No. I'm with -- I'm with you a 100 percent. But what we know for sure is, if those systems were effective and usable, we wouldn't -- we'd be using them. Right? The reality is the government doesn't have the kind of messaging apps that are on the CIA officials' desktops. They don't have those on mobile phones.

They just don't aren't there. They're not effective, they're not usable. To the extent you have them, they're on these kludgy phones. You got to put a pack on the back. You got to, you know, log into it. So it's a pain in the butt to use. That's why you have them using Signal.

If you're going to do something, if you're going to pick up your phone and talk to the Secretary of State or talk to the CIA Director, talk to Tulsi Gabbard. Yeah. You know, you could see an incoming voice call for Tulsi Gabbard on that one. I'd rather do it on Signal than anything else. Not great. Better than the alternatives.

[21:10:00]

MCCABE: Not a chance.

COLLINS: You too -- so this side of the table seems to disagree with that.

MCCABE: This phone, as you described, well, they are clunky, they are hard to use. Because they are so secure they're provided to you by the federal government. They have layers and layers of security protocols built in that no commercial device has.

And I will also say that cabinet level officials have the easiest access to that stuff of anyone on the planet. So we've got entire staffs to provide them with things that are ready to use. And Signal, it is encrypted in transit, so protected from being picked off, but it is decrypted on your phone. So if anyone who gets into your phone --

COLLINS: Yes.

MCCABE: -- if you're not deleting the messages can see what you've written. And if you're deleting the messages, you're not complying with the government --

COLLINS: Right.

JAFFER: Records Act.

MCCABE: -- Records Act.

SANNER: And it's not approved for classified information.

MCCABE: Of course.

SANNER: Right?

JAFFER: Well, we don't know. We don't know --

SANNER: So we don't know what's on there. We don't know what's on there. But I'm sorry --

COLLINS: Well, we saw one the chats, to be fair. Can we talk about this dynamic, though, that has been set up here, which I think is really interesting in terms of Secretary of State Rubio is going to be doing both? I mean, and for people who don't know, he is now the secretary of everything, it seems, because he's already, acting as the acting USAID administrator. He's the national archivist. He's secretary of state, obviously, and now he is going to be the interim NSA.

I mean, what do you take -- something has not been done since Kissinger was doing that for President Nixon.

SANNER: Little different, Nixon era, Watergate.

COLLINS: But what do you make of that? I mean, how many responsibilities is that for Secretary Rubio?

SANNER: It's ridiculous, but I think what it reflects, there are two things. One is that they weren't ready for this. So this was like, oh, oh, who can we put in there? Oh, this kind of makes sense. They're kind of the same jobs. Right? They're not. They're actually -- you're supposed to, as the national security adviser, adjudicate everybody else, and state and DOD are always fighting.

But it also, to me, shows that this job doesn't actually matter to them. I think this is one of the issues --

COLLINS: Oh, that's interesting.

SANNER: -- is that, you know, President Trump has always felt that he is the one -- and we see it all the time -- he's the one who will be making these decisions. And he has a lot of confidence in his own ability to do that, and he will bring people in.

But it is really he and Witkoff. And they'll bring in a couple people, but it's not the necessarily the national security adviser who is that trusted person.

COLLINS: Yeah. Well, I mean, in just the short timeline of all of this, we have someone also here who is joining us who knows what it's like to feel the full force of West Wing personnel decisions by President Trump. The former White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci joins me now.

And, Anthony, we booked you because you wrote on Twitter this morning, after this was reported. You said, "Waltz's last 9.2 Scaramuccis." You then did correct it, to be fair. You said 9.18 Scaramuccis. Are you surprised that he made it to one 9.18 Scaramuccis as you have mathematically deduced here?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, Former Trump white house communications director: You know, you said nine earlier today to Danna Bash. I sort of feel like we have to be generous to these people.

COLLINS: And you corrected me.

SCARAMUCCI: Yeah. So let's round up. But listen, you know, he should have been fired, you know, four Scaramucci's ago. This is -- you know, this is a very binary thing. You shouldn't be using Signal. Even the President himself said not to use it. He continues to use it, and it's very binary.

And so what I think the President has basically told people, he doesn't want to fire people. He doesn't want scalps. He's fighting a great culture war. He's sort of like the General Napoleon of the culture war, seized the battlefield ahead. He doesn't want the liberal mainstream media, all the stuff that he says, to get scalps of people in his administration.

And so this is the main reason why Waltz hasn't left the administration. He was fired from that job. And even though the Vice President says he wasn't demoted, he was demoted. But I think it's a tell here. The President doesn't want to let him go, because he doesn't want to do what he did in his first administration, fire his first national security adviser after 22 or 23 days.

I don't think he had any problem firing me. By the way, when he fired me at, like, 04:00, he sent out a tweet saying it was a fantastic day in the White House. So I don't think he had any problem firing me. But I think, in general, he doesn't want to fire people, right now. I think he -- I think he's -- and even if they're act like amateurs or they do really silly things like put our battle plans out on things like WhatsApp, he's not going to fire them because he thinks it's part of the culture war.

COLLINS: I don't think this would happen here. We don't have any reporting that it would. But do you believe part of that is to stem people from writing books? I mean, I was watching John Bolton earlier talking to Anderson. He wrote a book when he was leaving the West Wing that Trump got in a huge fight with him about a legal battle. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

SCARAMUCCI: Listen, again, this is just my gut. I don't. I think it's more related to -- it's us versus them. They're coming for us. They want our scalps.

[21:15:00]

If you've come to work for me, I'm going to protect you. And I think that he's also -- you know, listen, he probably offered that UN Job to a number of different people that didn't take it.

He's got a group of people. If you see the Cabinet meetings, you know, you guys left this out. You know, Rubio gets like an A plus on the flattering. I mean, the level of sycophancy coming from Rubio. He -- I mean, I think if he continues, this will end up with like six or seven more jobs before this is over.

So they sit around in there and they chant good things to the President. And I've been with the President where he laughs at these people. So, I mean, you know, they're chanting to him and they think they're currying favor with him. But he's down deep, he's laughing at them. So, you know, Rubio's there now, he gets the extra job. Waltz is out.

But remember, there was also a fight between Waltz and Vance related to Iran. Don't forget that part of the story. You know, one was more hawkish, the other one was trying to take a more reticent approach. And I think that contributed to this.

COLLINS: Yeah, that seems to have had a lot to do with this. I do think that's important to stress to people is, our reporting is this is not just about Signal Gate and Signal and Jeffrey Goldberg being added. It also has to do really with Waltz himself. And what we're seeing is his hawkish foreign policy views, certainly compared to the other people that he was working alongside in this national security space.

And I wonder -- you know, we often hear that Trump likes to have different voices around, who do have different views. But clearly Waltz was not really someone who was ever fully meshed with them in terms of how they view the world and the United States role in it.

SCARAMUCCI: Some of that. But I mean, I think the hawkishness was really tied into how the Israelis felt about the situation. And I think, you know, this is something you have to give the President credit for it. You want to be balanced. He doesn't like the wars. He doesn't like dropping the missiles. And so not going after Iran in this situation, I applaud that, frankly. I think the Americans are exhausted by these proxy wars and we're exhausted by that fight. And maybe we can solve that problem through diplomacy.

So, you know, there's a lot of different reasons why he got demoted. But if we're going to pretend that he didn't get demoted, that's all part of the whole thing. We're going to pretend that the stock market's down because of Joe Biden. And the people are -- economy is down, jobs are getting cut. Apple is telling people at the end of the quarter they got $900 million of additional costs this coming quarter. And we're going to pretend that that's all Joe Biden.

So we want to keep the lies going. That's fine. But this guy got demoted. It was a little bit of an amateur situation. He also got tied up with the Vice President related to Iran. But the President's fighting a culture where he didn't want to give a scalp to the media. And so he's going to be the UN Ambassador.

COLLINS: If he's Senate confirmed. I imagine Democrats may have a few questions about Signal. We'll see. Anthony Scaramucci to my team of experts here as well at the table, thank you all so much for being here.

Also tonight, we're going to follow up on what Anthony Scaramucci said there about Tim Cook.

Also, this, it's a first of its kind ruling and the question is how far does it go to constrain the President's deportation powers? The top Democrat on House Judiciary is here. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:20:00]

COLLINS: President Trump did not respond to shouted questions about Mike Waltz's departure as the Head of the National Security Council, as he was leaving Washington to go to Alabama tonight. That left Vice President Vance as the official answering questions about the shakeup in their national security team and what it meant.

He said, Waltz was not pushed out for a reason that a lot of people think.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, HOST SPECIAL REPORT, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Was it a direct result of the Signal chat? I mean, you were on that chat, and we saw the fallout from it. Is this a result of that?

VANCE: No, it's not, Bret.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: My source tonight, Maryland Democrat Congressman Jamie Raskin, who is the Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee. And Congressman, it's great to have you here tonight. I wonder what you think this change means as the White House is arguing, you know, he's not being demoted, but he is moving to the UN if he gets confirmed. What do you think it means for how the administration operates in the national security space?

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): I don't think it makes much of a difference at all. I mean, all of the chaos and corruption flow right out of Donald Trump's head, so it doesn't really make any difference who you surround him with.

COLLINS: Do you agree with your fellow Democrats who say Trump fired the wrong guy here? If this is about Signal Gate, because it was Secretary Hegseth who sent the military operation plans to this group Chat on Signal?

RASKIN: Well, Hegseth is clearly unqualified for the job. And I mean, in a cabinet of very close calls, he might be the most unqualified, although admittedly there are several others in the running, including Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

COLLINS: Does it give you any pause to see the White House continuing to use Signal, and you know, what is going on with that after we saw the Reuters photo that captured Waltz was still using it when he was in the Cabinet and just in the Cabinet Room just yesterday. And just before you answer that, you questioned former FBI officials about this at a hearing just last month.

I want to play to our crowd what you heard, what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RASKIN: If this were a standard practice, just yes or no, do you think it would be a problem?

LUKE HUNT, FORMER FBI AGENT & PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: That would be a problem, yes.

RASKIN: Mr. Stout, can you say, would it be a problem for it to be standard practice to conduct sensitive foreign policy on a Signal chat group?

RICHARD STOUT, FORMER FBI AGENT & DIRECTOR OF REFORM THE BUREAU: Yes, I would.

RASKIN: OK. And Mr. Whitson, do you agree?

STUART WHITSON, FORMER FBI AGENT & SENIOR DIRECTOR OF FEDERAL AFFAIRS AT THE FOUNDATION FOR GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:25:00]

COLLINS: Your thoughts on that now that we know that they're still using it? RASKIN: Well, it's obviously a standard practice. They tried to make it seem as if there were some kind of isolated episode. But they've got no real concern for information leaking out. And the truth is, I'm even more concerned about the deliberate channels of communication they have with the enemies of American democracy.

I mean, if you take the guy who has been nominated to be U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, Ed Martin. He's someone who had more than 150 appearances on Russia Today in Sputnik, which were forced to register as foreign agents of the Russian government. And he didn't disclose those to the U.S. Senate when he filled out his forms to become the U.S. attorney.

And so there are so many direct back channels to the Russian government that I'm not even sure that they have to spend time gathering all the breadcrumbs from the Signal chat rooms.

COLLINS: Congressman, can I get your response to some breaking news tonight? As I just mentioned, you're a Ranking Member on Judiciary. We're hearing from Politico tonight that the Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, is condemning President Trump's attacks on judges. And I want to, I want to quote what she, what she said tonight.

She said, "These attacks are not random. They seem designed to intimidate. And the threats and harassment are attacks on our democracy and on our system of government, and they ultimately risk undermining our Constitution and the rule of law." What do you make of that?

RASKIN: Justice Jackson is absolutely right. And she's echoing, of course, Chief Justice Roberts, who a couple weeks ago said that the correct response to a District Court opinion you disagree with is to appeal the opinion, not to try and impeach the judge or, you know, others who have said, go online and malign and vilify the judge. And that has led in turn to all kinds of threats against judges, justices and their families.

We know that Justice Amy Coney Barrett's sister, received a bomb threat. Other justices and other judges have been receiving these personal threats. So I'm glad that Justice Jackson spoke out in this way to support judicial independence.

And I wish that my colleagues in the House who are Republicans, would quit their campaign to impeach judges for doing their jobs. We've impeached 15 federal judges in American history, always for something like bribery or corruption or habitual drunkenness on the bench. We've never impeached a judge for a substantive disagreement about legal doctrine, much less when they're right.

Our colleagues can't even say what these judges have gotten wrong. I mean, if you take the President's Executive Order purporting to repeal birthright citizenship in America, that was struck down by four different judges, a Biden judge, an Obama judge, a Bush judge and a Reagan judge who said it was the easiest case he had decided in more than four decades on the bench because it was so blatantly unconstitutional.

COLLINS: Well, and this comes as we heard, you know, a lot of these attacks have stemmed from, from them blocking on doing things, including on immigration. And today we saw a federal judge who was appointed by President Trump rule that his use of the Alien Enemies Act is unlawful. I wonder what you make of that and how you expect the administration to respond to that because it's obviously different than what we've seen other judges say in this front.

RASKIN: It was a superb decision by a Trump nominated judge from Texas who stated the obvious, which is that we are not at war with Venezuela. If we're going to be at war with Venezuela, that's a congressional decision. We have power to declare war. Nor has Venezuela invaded the United States. Invasion means a military invasion, the court found it.

And therefore this statute is not the proper basis for deporting anyone from the country at all. And if you want to deport people for alleged crimes, then you bring them to court. They have due process, as the Supreme Court found in a 9-0 decision. Everybody gets due process in America. Whether you're innocent or you're guilty, you get due process. And we can't sort out the innocent and guilty without due process.

COLLINS: Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you for your time tonight.

RASKIN: Thanks for having me.

COLLINS: Also today, the Trump administration is trying to change the narrative when it comes to the economy. We're learning about how much the President's trade war could cost Apple. Tim Cook has a direct line to the White House. We'll tell you what that says.

And also get Rahm Emanuel's response, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:30:00]

COLLINS: Tonight, a warning from the Apple CEO, Tim Cook, estimating that President Trump's tariffs could cost his company $900 million this quarter. That is despite an exemption that the administration offered to smartphones that are made in China.

As Cook now says he expects the majority of iPhones that they sell in the United States going forward. That is despite an exemption that the administration offered to smartphones that are made in China. As Cook now says, he expects the majority of iPhones that they sell in the United States going forward to come from India. Really an indication that the president's goal of ramping up manufacturing here in the United States is still pretty far off, which a lot of the experts have said.

Now, with Americans bracing for rising costs right Now, Vice President J.D. Vance says the Trump administration is not to blame for what's happening with the economy. [21:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: The economy shrank first time in three years. People are pointing to the tariff policy. There are people looking at their 401(k)s that are worried. What do you tell them? Is this going to work?

VANCE: So the first thing is, when you talk about the economy, this is Joe Biden's economy and we inherited $2 trillion of debt, the highest peacetime deficits in American history, a $1.2 trillion trade deficit, which fundamentally means we're not making enough of our own stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: My source joining me now is Rahm Emanuel, the former Mayor of Chicago and former Ambassador to Japan under President Biden. It's great to have you, Ambassador. 102 days in, do you believe that this is Joe Biden's economy?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, if the economic numbers were different, they would be taking -- the Trump administration be taking credit for it. While a lot of people focused on the GDP numbers and that was a 2.4 percent growth to a negative 3.3 percent. This is a 2.7 swing. A lot of it, one, had to do with the fact that there were so much imports, opposite of what the tariffs were supposed to do. So these are people trying to get ahead of something negative.

The number to me that was more interesting --

COLLINS: Because people were bringing in so many imports worried about --

EMANUEL: Yes, yes, because they -- because the tariffs were such an economic problem. Number two, the real number in my view that wasn't really focused on was the anemic job performance that -- caught the last month of basically of March. That is totally under President Trump. And that was both job number, income growth. Those were very anemic. And that's the flashing yellow sign.

So I understand why the headline of the economic contraction got the attention for both the White House, for all of us, but for the Congress also, that's up in 2026. That is a troubling number. And that tells you why people have soured on the President's tenure. His -- this is the first time --

COLLINS: Why is that the flashing yellow sign?

EMANUEL: Because it tells you both, it's a reflection of consumer confidence or lack thereof. It's a reflection of also the economy not growing and it's going to have political and economic ramifications. And I think that that to me is the troubling sign that both on a political level and economic level. And I do think one of the things that I think will come across here is that if this is already slow up on the job number, you're going to see even greater problems going forward. It's not going to bounce back because the tariffs were such a kind of throwing a boulder in the water and the ripple effect and the aftershocks. We haven't -- we've just begin layer one. These -- the rings on this are going to really grow out.

COLLINS: Well, and we had a Republican Senator in this seat the other day, Markwayne Mullin, a huge ally of the President, and he was saying, just wait for the trade deals. They are working on these trade deals. They're going to come. Kevin Hassett is one of the President's topic economic advisers, and listen to what he teased earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Secretary Lutnick and Jamieson Greer are making progress with numerous countries. I think it's more than 20 now where we actually have hard offers on the table. I'm sure there'll be news by the end of the day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you don't know if it's -- who's first? If it's India or South Korea or what's going on with Japan? Can you tease us? Can you give us anything? Can you dangle?

HASSETT: I think I know, but I can't tease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: I mean, it's 09:38 p.m., we have not heard any announcements about trade deals from the White House.

EMANUEL: You're not -- first of all, show stuff. They're not trade deals. Trade deal is an 18 month at minimum process to work through all of it. You may get a term sheet that has an outline. I think this is in a desperate, parachute pull by the White House because they saw how bad the tariffs impacted both the real economy as well as the financial markets, and they're trying to call them trade deals.

They'll just be term sheets that will take year -- months -- over -- well over 12 months to figure out the details to this because they need to somehow put a floor under what was basically a collapse. They're not trade deals.

COLLINS: You were just the Ambassador to Japan.

EMANUEL: Rumor has it.

COLLINS: I mean, they're trying to -- to strike a trade deal. Word has it on the street.

EMANUEL: Yeah.

COLLINS: How do you think they're viewing all this? Are they going to -- are they getting close? Are they -- EMANUEL: But you're suggesting, you said that, I assume they're getting close because Japan, for four consecutive years was the number one foreign direct investor in the United States. Over nearly half of their jobs by Japanese companies are manufacturing and industrial.

Second, Japan's a big purchaser of U.S. agricultural products. Third, Japan, is also either number one or number two, largest holder of U.S. Treasuries. While they are desirous of the U.S. market and economy and a big investor and confidence in the United States --

COLLINS: Yeah.

EMANUEL: They also have leverage here. And so it's in the -- and also, any way we want to deal with China economically, through sanctions, you need Japan standing shoulder to shoulder with you.

COLLINS: And South Korea as well. And I wonder given all this economic turmoil and the blame on President Biden coming from the White House, we're starting to see more Dems who are, you know, putting their toe in the water for 2028. People like Pete Buttigieg. He's about to headline a veteran's townhall in Iowa. We're seeing others go out. Is this what you think you think they should be focusing on? What would your advice to them be?

[21:40:00]

EMANUEL: Well, look. I mean, is -- I have a congressional head, former head of the Democratic congressional campaign --

COLLINS: As many hats almost as Secretary Rubio.

EMANUEL: Yeah. Well, not that many. As many headaches, I would say. So let me say this. It's OK to focus on 2028, but laser focused on 2026. It will change the whole trajectory. When we won the House in 2006, we set up the minimum wage, last time it passed. We set up the children's health care that President Bush did not want to sign, and it became the second bill that President Obama signed within his first week after the Lilly Ledbetter.

And you test political themes out, President Obama's White House, President Bush's White House, Donald Trump's White House, all different when you have -- do or don't have a majority. To me, the number one issue is that this is a Republican rubber stamp Congress for Donald Trump. That tells you why the independence Donald Trump is now losing two to one.

When you have an energized Democratic base, two to one independence breaking for you, and a Republican base is slightly also depressed. This has a potential to be a wave election, and it will set up 2028. So you have to both walk and chew gum. But the laser focus -- anybody that takes attention away from the referendum on the Republicans who are -- if you had a Democratic Congress, you would never have these tariffs.

COLLINS: Yeah. That's a good point. Rahm Emanuel.

EMANUEL: Thank you.

COLLINS: Ambassador, great to see you. Great to have you.

Up next, speaking of DOGE, getting maybe DOGE'd, that is one of the admissions Elon Musk is making tonight. Acknowledgment as he's on his way out. Our White House insiders are here on this interview by the CEO of Tesla.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:45:00]

COLLINS: Tonight, with Elon Musk on the verge of stepping back from DOGE and overseeing it in the role that he's been doing so for the last 100 days or so, he defended what the so called Department of Government Efficiency has done and also what the future of it could look like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WATTERS, PANELIST, THE FIVE, FOX NEWS: Is DOGE just getting started? Is this is a long term enterprise?

ELON MUSK, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a long term enterprise, because if we take our eye off the ball, the waste and fraud will come roaring back.

WATTERS: They can doge DOGE when Democrats get back in power.

MUSK: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think some of the things that -- like, we're trying to have it be such that the funding is removed, so the grants are gone. So this -- that if -- there's a lot of work required to restart the waste and fraud. And that will at least slow it down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining me tonight, my White House insiders, Reuters' Jeff Mason and Politico's Dasha Burns.

Jeff, I wonder what you make of what you heard from Musk tonight in terms of what he believes is going to be the future of this project.

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Well, my question would be, like, who's going to take over? Because even though he says it's going to continue without me. Having a figurehead has been a big part of this process.

DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: And that figurehead in particular.

MASON: And that figurehead, in particular, exactly right. And somebody who has the kind of influence and access to President Trump that Elon Musk has had. So I think it -- you just have to assume it's going to change things a little bit in terms of momentum and or in terms of logistics. But, President Trump is all in and has been all in on DOGE from the very beginning, in large part because he's all in on Elon Musk. So, you know, I don't think he's wrong to say that it's going to continue even when he steps back.

COLLINS: Yeah. That's a good question. Does it look the same if it doesn't have someone who has the standing, the stature that Elon Musk does with the President?

DASHA BURNS: Well, Elon Musk is also what drew so much attention, positive and negative. Let's be clear. Remember all of those town halls. Right? So if this very, very well-known massive personality isn't in charge of it anymore, could they actually potentially get more done behind the scenes when people aren't looking?

And remember, Elon Musk is also the guy that clashed -- I mean, Trump loved him, but he clashed with just about every cabinet secretary, I mean, Bessent, Hegseth, Rubio. I mean, name everyone at that table this week he had a problem with at some point.

COLLINS: Yeah. And he was asked tonight about the programs and cuts -- programs and grants that have been cut at NIH, which obviously, you know, we've been hearing from doctors, from former health secretaries of how important they are for research and what that looks like. And I want you to listen to what -- how Musk described it tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: Generally, like, these programs, these grants are going to be, like, along the lines of save the baby pandas. And it's like, well, of course, who wouldn't want to save the baby pandas? And, you know, in some cases, they've got a show panda, which they will try it out for special occasions. In a lot of cases, they don't even have a show panda.

WATERS: No panda.

MUSK: There's not even one panda because we asked for pictures, and, we don't even get one panda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: I mean, that's certainly not how it's been described.

BURNS: We need to get more creative with our metaphors around here.

COLLINS: I don't know. It's kind of tough for me to follow that one.

MASON: Yeah. My reaction to that is, is he's good at coming up with a sound bite that's going to t make some traction. But the sound bite that I remember was from the Oval Office the first time that he sort of appeared before the press with President Trump, I happened to be in the office or in the Oval that day. And he said, we'll make mistakes. And the mistakes that you make when you're at that level and you're cutting jobs and you're cutting programs that have --

[21:50:00]

BURNS: Remember the example he brought up was, oh, we accidentally cut some funding for Ebola prevention. Oops. We brought that back. Right? So those cuts weren't --

MASON: Indeed.

BURNS: -- insignificant.

MASON: I mean, These are mistakes that have -- that affect human lives, and that's a big deal. That's a bigger deal than a baby panda.

BURNS: Well, also, we reported here last night, The Wall Street Journal saying that that Tesla had been looking for a new CEO to replace him. They had essentially initiated this search. Elon Musk angrily responded to that today in all caps going after The Wall Street Journal. They had claimed that they had not reached out. Journal says that they did.

But I think that also speaks to a lot of why we're seeing this happening now, him leaving, even though he's far short of the goal that he had initially set here.

BURNS: Right. I think that there was a lot of friction within the White House. He and Trump may be getting along. But the way that he was going about this job, I mean, there are a lot of Republicans and Democrats that agree there's a lot of government waste, you can make it more efficient, you can make it more effective. But the method, the chainsaw that is now so infamous wasn't the way to do it.

COLLINS: Yeah. What about the Buddhism quote, Jeff? I'd love to get your thoughts. When he was asked last night about who would fill his place, the New York Times reports that Musk said, "DOGE is a way of life like Buddhism." When he was pressed, he said, "Is Buddha needed for Buddhism?"

MASON: I think people at the Elon Musk level think highly of themselves and will compare themselves to deities apparently and heroes, et cetera. That's clearly what he's doing here. But I feel like it's worth piggybacking on your last question about the Tesla, company and the Tesla stock. I mean, what Elon did over the last three months, whether you like it or not, was transformative.

BURNS: Yeah.

MASON: He's also transformed his own companies by having stepped back and basically allowing the stock price to go down because he was inactive and by creating the dissatisfaction that he did.

BURNS: And tying himself so closely to this administration.

MASON: Sure.

COLLINS: Not in the way that board wanted to see. Jeff Mason, Dasha Burns, great to have you both here tonight. Also tonight, while we were on air, President Trump delivered the

commencement address at my alma mater, the University of Alabama. And before introducing President Trump at tonight's ceremony, they heard from the school's former football coach, the legend that is Nick Saban, who told a story about when Alabama players visited Trump inside the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK SABAN, FORMER ALABAMA FOOTBALL COACH: He's got this very big, good looking, auspicious box on his desk that has a red button on top. And one of the players said, is that what you launch some missiles with?

And he said, Well, push it and find out. What player said, No, I don't want to do that. He said, Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Push it. See what happens. Find out. So Rashaan Evans finally got the guts up, went over, pushed the red button. Some lady came in with a Coke on a tray.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Trump then took the stage, and as he spoke to the graduates, recognized what makes Alabama great.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So not only is Alabama a great football school, it's now one of the nation's best basketball schools, and congratulations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Somewhere, my dad, who is a huge basketball fan, is nodding his head yes. Roll tide.

Up next tonight for us, the President is tired of waiting for Boeing to make him a new Air Force One. He has made backup plans. How he is getting a new plane, those details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:55:00]

COLLINS: Tonight, The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the President is pushing for a new Air Force One ASAP.

CNN has reported before on the President's frustration with Boeing. It was supposed to deliver two of the next-generation 747s for the President's use by 2024 last year, but delays have pushed them years behind schedule.

Now The Journal is reporting that the government has tapped a smaller defense contractor to retrofit a Boeing 747, one that was previously used by the government of Qatar, into a technology filled White House in the sky. Well, stay tuned on that and how the President's travel is going.

Also here on CNN this Sunday, a new episode of the "Whole Story" premieres.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A billionaire's Pandora is now out of the box across the rainforest. Starlink, the high speed global satellite Internet provider run by Elon Musk and commercially bought for supply here. It's changed warfare in Ukraine, sped up WiFi on board airplanes, and let Iranians evade oppressive sensors. But to the kids here, when it arrives, it is just a big cardboard box.

And it is staggeringly fast how they are suddenly connected to 7,000 satellites orbiting above and the --