Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Says DOJ Made Decision To Bring Abrego Garcia Back; Source: Trump Asks Aides If They Think Musk's Behavior Related To Alleged Drug Use; Proud Boys Leaders Sue DOJ For $100 Million, Claim Political Prosecution. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 06, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: But I believe in correcting them. It's Amazon that has made the deal with the first lady, not Netflix, and I'm sorry for the error.
If you want to watch the history-making special live broadcast, of the Tony-nominated play, "Good Night, and Good Luck," it is on tomorrow night, 07:00 p.m. Eastern, and streaming on CNN.com. This has never been done before, live. Broadway production, brought to you live. I'll see you then. I hope you watch.
The news continues. That's it for us. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, what the Trump administration adamantly and repeatedly declared would never happen has just happened.
Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whose case we've covered extensively, and whose mistaken deportation to El Salvador has become a flashpoint in the fight over the Trump administration's immigration tactics, is back on U.S. soil tonight, after nearly three months in a notorious Central American prison, and two months after the Supreme Court ordered the administration to facilitate his return, and after months of comments from the Trump administration, like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: He's in El Salvador, and that's where the President plans on keeping him.
KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: There is no scenario, where Abrego Garcia will be in the United States again.
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: His only options are to be deported to his home country or another country. That's it.
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: What's the sense of bringing someone back that's simply going to face deportation again?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Well, Abrego Garcia is back. And there is a twist, which we learned about from the Attorney General, as she confirmed his return today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: On May 21st, a grand jury in the Middle District of Tennessee returned a sealed indictment, charging Abrego Garcia with alien smuggling and conspiracy to commit alien smuggling.
We're grateful to President Bukele for agreeing to return him to our country to face these very serious charges.
This is what American justice looks like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now the Feds say these charges relate to a 2022 traffic stop that, at the time, did not result in Abrego Garcia being detained or charged with a crime. When asked by my colleague, Evan Perez, what changed today, Pam Bondi said it's because Donald Trump is now in office.
And the President himself, as he was en route to New Jersey for the weekend, offered this take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, did you speak with Bukele directly to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't want to say that. But, uh, he's returned, and he should have been returned.
REPORTER: Did you have any conversation with--
TRUMP: He should have been returned. He should have never -- he should have never had to be returned. If you take a look at what's happened with him. You take a look at what they found in the grand jury and everywhere else. I thought Pam Bondi did a great job today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Justice Department is accusing Abrego Garcia, and others, of moving undocumented immigrants between Texas and Maryland, and other states, more than a 100 times, over a decade.
But the charges are not coming without controversy tonight, even among the Feds, as we're learning that the head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division in Nashville has resigned, over this charge, with sources telling CNN, there was disagreement among the prosecutors. We're still digging into what happened there.
But central to the government's case is that traffic stop that I just mentioned, you can see it here, when Abrego Garcia was pulled over on a Tennessee Highway. Nine other passengers were in the SUV with no ID and no luggage.
Tonight, asked about this, President Trump insisted the decision here was not his call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, DOJ made a decision. I think their decisions have been very, very good. And maybe they just said, Look, all of these people, these judges, they want to try and run the country. The judges are trying to -- a local judge trying to run the country. The man has a horrible past and I could see a decision being made, bring him back, show everybody how horrible this guy is.
And frankly, we have to do something, because the judges are trying to take the place of a president that won in a landslide. And that's not supposed to be the way it is. So I could see bringing him back. I could see it either way, bringing him back or not bringing him back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is what the President is saying tonight.
Here's what he said, when I asked him about this very case, as he was seated in the Oval Office, next to the President of El Salvador, two months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you plan to ask President Bukele to help return the man who your administration says was mistakenly deported?
TRUMP: Which one is this?
COLLINS: The man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador?
TRUMP: Well, let me ask Pam. Would you ask to -- answer that question.
[21:05:00]
BONDI: Sure, President. First and foremost, he was illegally in our country. He had been illegally in our country. And in 2019, two courts, an immigration court and an appellate immigration court, ruled that he was a member of MS-13, and he was illegally in our country. Right now, it was a paperwork -- it was additional paperwork had needed to be done. That's up to El Salvador, if they want to return him. That's not up to us.
TRUMP: Would you answer that question also, please?
MILLER: Yes, gladly. So, as Pam mentioned, there's an illegal alien from El Salvador. As two immigration courts found that he was a member of MS-13. When President Trump declared MS-13 to be a foreign terrorist organization.
So he had a deportation order that was valid, which meant that, under our law, he's not even allowed to be present in the United States, and had to be returned because of the foreign terrorist designation.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Of course, he is now back in the United States.
And when pressed on whether or not he would return him, in that moment, inside the Oval Office, since everyone kept deferring to President Bukele, this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Can President Bukele weigh in on this? Do you plan to return him?
NAYIB BUKELE, PRESIDENT OF EL SALVADOR: Well, yes -- I suppose you're not suggesting that I smuggle terrorists into the United States, right?
How can I return him to the United States? Like, I smuggle him into the United States or what do I do? Of course, I'm not going to do it. It's like, I mean, the question is preposterous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What was called preposterous in April was apparently not so today.
And tonight, we're learning more about how all of this went down. My colleague, Priscilla Alvarez, and I, are told by sources, this decision to return Abrego Garcia, back to the United States, was made in the last few days, and was signed off on by the White House.
My source to start us off tonight is the Democratic senator, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, who is among two dozen lawmakers, urging the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, to bring Abrego Garcia back to the United States.
And sir, just on this tonight, before we get to what's in these charges here, which I do think are notable, we should talk about. Does this show, though, that the administration could have brought Abrego Garcia back to the United States at any time?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Absolutely, Kaitlan. And thanks for having me on this very, very important evening.
The administration could have facilitated his return, at any point, after it was ordered to do so by the United States Supreme Court. The highest court in the land ordered the United States government, two months ago, to return him. And it had the power to do so. It failed.
It didn't actually indict him, until a couple of weeks ago. It only unsealed the indictment, last Friday. But it's based on a supposed stop that happened three years ago. So, they have been building a case. They could have brought him back. The failure to do so is not what American justice should look like.
COLLINS: And on these charges, you were previously the Attorney General of Connecticut. You have a legal background here. What the prosecutors are alleging is that he was part of this trafficking conspiracy and, they say, he played a big role in smuggling migrants, including unaccompanied minors.
Given this was brought by a grand charge -- a grand jury, do you view these charges as legitimate?
BLUMENTHAL: These charges have to be regarded with a very hefty dose of skepticism, in light of the timing, and all of the attendant circumstances, the resignation of one of the senior prosecutors in the Tennessee office that brought these charges, saying that he was concerned that they were strictly political.
The administration has no right to bring charges simply as an offramp, or a face-saver. And now it's going to have to, in effect, put up and shut up, put its evidence where its mouth is.
And I've heard again and again and again, as a prosecutor, as a United States attorney, federal prosecutor, as well as state attorney general, Charges are not evidence. And so far, we've seen no evidence. And this conspiracy names no co-conspirators. Six unnamed and unknown others, possibly the grand jury. There is a lot to doubt here.
COLLINS: Yes, part of what we heard at the press conference today was not actually included in the indictment, and the charges. But given it was returned by a grand jury, do you believe it has some legitimacy to it?
BLUMENTHAL: There's an old saying, Kaitlan, and I've heard it countless times, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. Now, that's a bit of an exaggeration, and grand juries are smarter these days than they have been in the past.
But a grand jury doesn't have to hear evidence that is cross-examined. They can hear hearsay. They can hear all kinds of evidence that would be inadmissible in court. The President calling him a bad guy is not going to be admissible, nor are unsubstantiated innuendo -- innuendo or other kinds of unsupportable and unsupported allegation. The fact--
COLLINS: You mentioned--
BLUMENTHAL: --will be determined.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: You mentioned the resignation of the head of the DOJ Criminal Division, in the Middle District in Tennessee, in Nashville -- the headquarters are in Nashville. He's been there 15 years. He just resigned. He said in his post, that it had been an incredible privilege to serve as a prosecutor, Where the only job description I've ever known is to do the right thing, in the right way, for the right reasons.
What questions do you have for Ben Schrader tonight?
BLUMENTHAL: I would ask Mr. Schrader, why he is concerned that these charges may be political, whether he resigned because there's no evidence to support these allegations, whether there was any wrongdoing in connection with the grand jury, manipulating evidence presented to it for engendering questions and unsupportable kinds of misinformation to the grand jury.
There are a raft of questions that I would ask Mr. Schrader. And almost certainly, he would not want to answer them.
But I do think, and here's the bottom line for me, as a member of the United States Senate, there should be an investigation here, about exactly why this administration defied the United States Supreme Court, why it delayed this indictment, why it is failing to be forthcoming to the Congress and the people of the United States.
COLLINS: Senator Richard Blumenthal, we'll see if any of those questions get answered. Thank you for your time tonight.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also with us are my legal sources here.
Elliot Williams, former federal prosecutor.
Jamil Jaffer, who was a former associate counsel to President George W. Bush.
And so, it's great to have both of your expertise here.
Because Jamil, what Evan Perez was noting at that press conference was that they were aware of this traffic stop in 2022. Abrego Garcia was stopped with nine other migrants in the car. They did not -- they did not detain him then.
And when he was -- asked, What exactly has changed here? Have you learned anything new? This is what the Attorney General said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: What has changed is Donald Trump is now President of the United States, and our borders are, again, secure. And thanks to the bright light that has been shined on Abrego Garcia, this investigation continued with actually amazing police work, and we were able to track this case and stop this international smuggling ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Given that, and what we heard two months ago after the Supreme Court order came down, how are you viewing this tonight?
JAMIL JAFFER, FOUNDER & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE, FORMER ASSOCIATE COUNSEL TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, look, Kaitlan, we'll see what happens at trial. They're going to have to bring evidence forward, as Senator Blumenthal said, that demonstrates that, in fact, there was a conspiracy to traffic humans, illegally, across the United States.
Now the claim that they made is that, because they identify them, he -- this whole thing went on. They've dug into the case within statute of limitations, and now they've identified, they've identified, apparently, some witnesses. There's this guy in prison, Jose Ramon Hernandez-Reyes, who apparently was a trafficker himself. He says he hired or -- he ostensibly says he hired Kilmar Abrego Garcia to help him.
So, we'll see. If they're able to present that evidence and convince a jury of his peers, then he'll go to jail. And if not, then the government will have to decide whether to remove him on his already removal proceeding that was taking place already, going on.
COLLINS: Elliot, what do you see? Anything stand out in this indictment to you?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Honestly, Kaitlan, there's just a lot of sloppiness in all of it. And that's not to say that the charges aren't legitimate, or that the grand jury shouldn't be considered.
But number one, starting with how the Attorney General and others are speaking about it. If there is a human smuggling conspiracy? Great. Prosecute it. That's not what he's charged with. He's charged with transportation within the United States, which is an entirely, a different crime. If they have evidence of additional crimes, they should say it. But the words that the Attorney General and others were using were far broader than what's on the pieces of paper.
There's sloppiness, even in the arrest warrant. And I don't want to nitpick here. But they got the statute wrong. Look at the arrest warrant, and they mixed up the conspiracy versus the transportation. Now, again, is that a big deal? But -- maybe not. But if people are taking their job seriously, and actually caring about enforcing the law, they maybe ought to give a little bit of care to the words they're putting on the page.
So, I just think there's a lot of political taint to all of this, even if the charges end up being able to be supported in a court.
COLLINS: Well and Jamil, we heard from Abrego Garcia's attorney, earlier, who was on CNN, and said that they did not get a heads-up about him being returned to the United States. This is what the attorney had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA'S ATTORNEY: We learned about it on TV, just like the rest of the country. What's clear -- this just makes crystal clear, what we've been saying, frankly, for the past two months, is that they've been playing games with the court.
[21:15:00]
They've been more interested in dragging his name through the mud than in actually sort of going through with proper court proceedings, just like it's been since day one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: How will that factor into what we see playing out in court?
JAFFER: Well, look, it'll certainly factor into this public debate that we're having with the Senate, the House. You'll see -- you'll see representatives coming out and criticizing it. There'll be criticisms of, Why they did this? Was this a political move, right?
But at the end of the day, all that matters is what happens in that courtroom? Can they prove their case? And if they can, then Abrego Garcia goes to jail.
If, by the way, they don't prove their charges, he's still subject to a removal proceeding. Yes, he was withheld from -- removal to El Salvador. But he's not in the country legally, and he can be removed to any other country in the world. So, if the administration chooses tomorrow, to drop the charges and remove him, they're within their rights to do that.
So there's no doubt, plenty criticism to be had, no doubt they went -- they removed him unlawfully, to El Salvador. But that's sort of the limit of it, and now he's back here. He can face the charges and (inaudible).
COLLINS: Yes. Jamil Jaffer. Elliot Williams. Great to have both of you here tonight. Thank you both for that.
And also coming up here on THE SOURCE. We have new reporting on what President Trump is saying, behind-the-scenes, after that ugly public fight with Elon Musk. He has new comments on Musk and his alleged drug use. Tonight, we'll play that for you, ahead.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, sources are telling CNN that the President has privately been asking aides and advisers, if they believe that Elon Musk's behavior, over the past 48 hours, could be related to his alleged drug use.
But when he was publicly asked about that alleged drug use, on Air Force One, just a short time ago, by a New York Times reporter, this is what the President had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did you have any concerns about his drug use when he was working for you?
TRUMP: I don't want to comment on his drug use. I don't know -- I don't know what his status is. I read an article in The New York Times, and I thought it was -- frankly it sounded very unfair to me.
REPORTER: You said earlier today that Mr. Musk had a problem. What did you mean by that and did you misjudge him?
TRUMP: I don't want to talk about problems. I think that my -- I think the United States had problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was earlier today, when the President told my colleague, Dana Bash, quote, "I'm not even thinking about Elon. He's got a problem. The poor guy's got a problem."
For the most part, the President seemed to want to focus on something other than the world's richest man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What's your view on Elon Musk as of today? Have you heard from him at all?
TRUMP: Honestly, I've been so busy working on China, working on Russia, working on Iran, working on so many things. I'm not thinking about Elon. You know I just wish him well.
REPORTER: Do you have any plans to speak with Mr. Musk? This was one of your closest advisers.
TRUMP: No, I don't have any plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, Musk spent the day, returning to his focus to the President's spending bill, with tweets like what we saw, that started this entire feud that erupted yesterday. Today, he posted, quote, "Congress is bankrupting America," as he's continued to tease starting a new political party, trying out this name, The American Party.
My sources tonight are:
The Chairman of O'Leary Ventures, Kevin O'Leary.
Semafor's Shelby Talcott.
And the host of "What A Day" with Jane Coaston.
And it's great to have you all here.
And Shelby, just to start with you, on what the President told reporters tonight, on Air Force One. He said he's not thinking about Elon Musk. He has no plans to call him. We obviously know he's been speaking privately about him, and questioning whether or not that alleged drug use is tied to what he's been saying, the last few days.
What are you hearing from sources tonight?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Well, listen, I think--
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: It's all noise. This is--
TALCOTT: --what I'm hearing from the White House is they want to focus on the big, beautiful bill. They want to focus on China. They want to focus on these initiatives. And that's what they tried to focus on from the start.
That's why, for the first few days of this feud, it was really one- sided. It was Elon Musk posting on X, and Donald Trump was not replying. And the only time that he really started replying was when he was directly asked in the Oval Office, earlier this week, from a reporter. But up until then, he had been pretty quiet.
And so, it's very clear, from conversations I've had, that that is what they hope to get back to publicly.
COLLINS: Kevin, what do you mean, it's all noise?
O'LEARY: It's all noise, because really, there's a difference of opinion here.
Remember, Elon Musk's mandate when he came in was DOGE, which has, in a remarkable 100 days, become a brand in America. It's indoctrinated every citizen, regardless of party, the idea of auditing government in perpetuity, and saving money is a good one. And that -- Trump and Elon Musk put that together. Together, they did that. And I think it's a good thing. I think every taxpayer likes it.
This stuff about drug use and all this noise is a difference of opinion. Musk was brought in to save $2 trillion. Let's not forget that in all this noise. He didn't get anywhere near there. He was frustrated as an entrepreneur. He had a 100 days -- a 130 days to do it.
And Trump wants to get this bill done. I understand that too. And this bill does not reduce the deficit. Remember, America's spending prior, even in Trump's first term, was under a trillion dollars deficit. Now we're $2 trillion-plus. And both that Biden and the Trump administration are on a $2 trillion-plus deficit. That frustrated Musk.
We should really focus on the signal, not the noise. These are two men that are very important to each other. Richest man on earth, including all of the competitiveness they brought -- that Musk has brought to the American nation. Think about SpaceX and Neuroscience that he's done, robotics, all of this is American technology. And does Trump really want not to have that in his portfolio? They've got to work this thing out.
[21:25:00]
But really, it's about two men that don't agree on how to spend money, because Musk doesn't want to spend $2 trillion deficit, and Trump does, and I understand both sides. These two have to kiss and make up--
COLLINS: Yes.
O'LEARY: --for the benefit of America. COLLINS: I think some people might hear when you say it's just noise, and say, Well, it's actually, the Commander-in-Chief, and one of the nation's biggest defense contractors, and the latter is calling the former, saying he's been hanging out with a known pedophile. And so, obviously that changes the dynamic here, more than just arguing about the deficit, which people have done for decades, and do say is a real issue.
And so, Jane, on that point. The FBI director was sitting for an interview with Joe Rogan when Elon Musk tweeted that allegation, about the President and these Epstein files. I just want to let everyone listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, HOST, THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE: Time to drop the really big bomb: Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day.
Jesus Christ.
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: I'm not participating--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
PATEL: --in any of that conversation between Elon and Trump.
ROGAN: What is he -- Have a nice day, DJT?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
ROGAN: Someone should take his phone away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going back and forth about different things and.
PATEL: Yes. Listen, I--
ROGAN: Well, he said he was disappointed in Elon, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he told him to leave.
ROGAN: Jesus Christ. That's a crazy thing to say. How does he know? Does he know that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files? Or does he have access to the Epstein files?
PATEL: I'm just -- I don't know how he would. But I'm just staying out of the Trump-Elon thing. That's way outside my lane.
ROGAN: What the (bleep) are they doing?
PATEL: That's -- I know my lane, and that ain't it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Jane, what are your thoughts when you hear that? JANE COASTON, HOST, CROOKED MEDIA'S "WHAT A DAY": Well, first and foremost, it's very funny that Kash Patel is in this situation. This is a real dog caught the car and doesn't know how to drive scenario.
But I also think, to Kevin's point that this -- I think that this is a bit of a smokescreen. Elon is right, but for the wrong reasons. This is a very bad bill that does cut millions of people from health care coverage, including millions of working Americans.
But I also think just seeing Kash Patel in that scenario, someone who went on a antisemitic podcaster's podcast, Stew Peters, and talked about how he didn't believe that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide, and now he's saying there's zero question about that. It really just shows, this is what happens when conspiracy theorists get power.
It's very difficult to have power and have the responsibility that comes with that. And then, you've got people yelling at him all the time about how, like, Release the Epstein list. Release the Epstein list.
There is no Epstein list. There is no list of people who all were going to happen to be Democrats, who were -- he was going to expose everything. It's ridiculous. And it's just kind of funny that he's in this situation at all.
COLLINS: Yes. And to hear him say, you know, I can't comment on that. Given, obviously, he has, previously.
Jane. Kevin. Shelby. Great to have you all here. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
COASTON: Thank you.
O'LEARY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. The members of the Proud Boys who were convicted in January 6th, they are now suing the Justice Department. Why they believe the federal government owes them $100 million, and are they actually going to ever see that?
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, just months after having their January 6th sentences pardoned or commuted by the President, several leaders of the Proud Boys are now suing the Justice Department, for a $100 million, claiming they faced a political prosecution.
These are the people, accused of masterminding the attack that day. And this lawsuit, which was filed by five Proud Boys, including the group's former chair, Enrique Tarrio, claimed that the Justice Department and the FBI, under President Biden, violated their constitutional rights in order to, quote, "Punish and oppress political allies of President Trump, by any and all means necessary, legal, or illegal." My source to start us off tonight on this is CNN Legal Analyst, and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.
And Elliot, all of these people obviously convicted by a jury. I think the question tonight is, how strong do you believe the merits of this lawsuit are?
WILLIAMS: Kaitlan, I don't think they're very strong, partly because a lot of the claims that they brought -- they've raised already. They raised these questions, some of them at trial, about alleging that evidence was tampered with, or that they were wiretapped inappropriately, that they did not get a fair trial, that the judge was biased. The judge, at least one of them appointed by Donald Trump himself in his first term.
So, these are sort of more of the same claims. Now, obviously a court is going to have to take them seriously and hear it. But we -- but we've been here before.
COLLINS: Well, the question, I think, that I also have, when I look at this is, are the options, for this Justice Department, under President Trump, to either defend the prosecutions carried out under the Biden DOJ, against these people that Trump pardoned, or settle with them? I mean, what alternatives or what route do they have here?
WILLIAMS: Yes. And there's a third option, which is move to dismiss it. Right now, I have a hard time believing they do that, given the statements the President and others have made, all over the last year or two, about January 6th, and almost expressing support for the work there. So, I have a hard time believing that they would move to dismiss it.
Now, settling it is the obvious option here. Most lawsuits get settled. But settling, even though it's not admission of guilt, it's an acknowledgement of the legitimacy of the claims being brought.
[21:35:00]
And the Justice Department would have to say, and put on the record in a court, that We do endorse at least some of the things that these individuals are saying about the Justice Department, broadly. Whether it's the Biden Justice Department or the Trump Justice Department, it's still the same entity, for the purposes of what happens in court.
COLLINS: Yes. Elliot Williams, we'll stay tuned and see what happens here. Thanks so much for that legal expertise here.
Also, our political experts are here.
David Urban is a Republican strategist and the former Trump campaign adviser.
And Karen Finney is the former communications director for the Democratic National Committee.
And David, I just wonder how you see this, when you're looking at this, in terms of not only legally what the Trump Justice Department is going to do, but also from a political perspective, in terms of this lawsuit being brought.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes, political perspective.
Look, I am no fan of this particular group. Clearly, I think that their views are reprehensible, and they're kind of on the fringes. They're the kind of polar opposite of Antifa. Both groups, which I think are -- the United States could do without.
But I think they're not doing any service to this administration. And I'm hopeful that the Department of Justice will, in fact, move to dismiss this, and robustly defend against it, because I do think it's wrong.
Listen, I'm not sure each and every claim of seditious conspiracy. I don't know if they were the masterminds of January 6th. I'm not quite sure there were masterminds. I think it was much more of a mob riot than Enrique, whatever the gentleman's name is, masterminding some grand strategy, an attack on the Capitol. I don't give him that much credit.
But I think it's ridiculous that they're asking for money damages from the United States, in the tune of a $100 million. I hope they don't see one penny.
COLLINS: Yes. Karen, how do you see this, just in terms of -- I think it's hard for a lot of people to think that, one, it would have gotten to this point after they were convicted on such serious charges, had such serious sentences against them.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yes.
COLLINS: And not only had it pardoned, or commuted, they're now asking for money and punitive damages from the Justice Department.
FINNEY: If this were normal times, you're absolutely right, Kaitlan. But we're in Trump's America, where white-collar crime seems to be OK, as he normalizes it. Where, what was one of the things he did on the very first day in office? He basically -- he pardoned all of these people, even those who perpetrated violence against the United States of America.
So the fact -- of course, they're suing, I guess my message here, which is, Trump made it very clear to them, when he let them out on day one, I'm assuming some probably with an autopen, because it was like 1,500 people.
But when they were told, You're free? It sent a very dangerous message to these right-wing militia groups that they have a friend in the Oval Office. So, of course, they would file a suit, and of course they did it in Florida, where potentially, I assume, they thought they'd get a more favorable judge.
And at least David and I agree, though, a $100 million, in taxpayer dollars, would be absolutely shameful.
COLLINS: Yes. You know what I was struck by, David, is what Enrique Tarrio, the former leader told The Journal. He was talking about how many issues they had getting legal representation, when all this was happening initially. But he said that they had basically everyone trying to represent them now. They spoke to more than a dozen firms. And he said, quote, "I believe attorneys are going to do backflips trying to get J6ers on board with a lot of lawsuits."
Do you think that we'll see more copycat lawsuits like this?
URBAN: Kaitlan, I can't predict.
Look, do I think that every one of the January 6 defendants deserves the sentences they got? No, I don't think that. So, I think there's some -- there are gradations of this. Those on the West Front of the Capitol, different than the East Front of the Capitol. Those that hit police officers and acted with violence. And those who were let in past the barricades by Capitol Police.
I think that there's a wide range. It's a very complex day. And the defendants are all different. So, I hope that we don't see 1,600 lawsuits here against the United States for breaking the law. And so, we'll just have to wait and see.
FINNEY: But, Kaitlan, can I just remind us that each of these -- these individuals, were in a court of law. They were found guilty by juries of their peers. So, it does -- you know, the evidence has been presented. As Elliot was just saying, they were lawfully convicted and then let out by Donald J. Trump.
And again -- so I wouldn't be surprised if any of them start to try to sue the United States. Because, again, I think the message that this President has sent is that it is Open Season. If you're a friend, I got your back. And if you're a foe, I'm going to come after you.
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:40:00]
URBAN: Well, to Karen's point, real quickly. Having a district -- having -- being tried in the District court, in the District of Columbia, where basically 90 percent of the electorate, the jury pool, voted against the President, is different than being tried in a, you know, the Middle District of Florida, where 90 percent of the jury pool voted for the President, so.
COLLINS: Well--
FINNEY: Which is why they filed in Florida.
URBAN: Not all -- not all trials are equal, unfortunately.
FINNEY: Come on. That's why they--
(CROSSTALK) COLLINS: But then maybe--
URBAN: No, no, Karen, I understand.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Karen, I understand. My point being that I'm not quite sure that everybody gets a fair trial in America--
COLLINS: Yes. I just think it would be--
URBAN: --based on where you sit.
COLLINS: You know, maybe then they shouldn't commit crimes in areas--
FINNEY: How about.
COLLINS: --if they don't want the jury there.
Anyway. Great discussion. David Urban. Karen Finney. Thank you both for that.
FINNEY: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next here on THE SOURCE. WNBA legend, Candace Parker has now added the title, Author, to her resume. The life lessons that she says, not just on the court, but also off the court, and what she's hoping for.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Candace Parker, one of the most decorated female basketball players of all time, is now sharing not just a deeply personal journey, on her rise towards basketball and mortality, but also the childhood mantra that helped her overcome career-threatening setbacks, at times, heartbreaking losses, the challenges of motherhood and much more.
And Candace Parker is my source tonight. Her new book is "The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions."
And it's so great to have you here.
Because what I love about this is that Can-do is actually a nickname, your mom gave to you when you were just 2-years-old, I believe. But it's also an acronym that became kind of this framework for your life. Tell us what it stands for, and how you've used it throughout your career and life.
CANDACE PARKER, WNBA LEGEND, AUTHOR, "THE CAN-DO MINDSET": I grew up just trying to follow, and I idolize my two older brothers. They're 8- and 11-years-older than me. And so, I come from a very competitive family. And so, everything they did I thought I should be doing. Whether it was 3 or 4-years-old, I was trying to keep up with the boys.
And so, my mom is -- when I started doubting myself, as I got older, she would always say, Can-do. And it just kind of became one of those like mantras that I would tell myself, whether it was, I was trying to take a tough test, or knock down big free throws, or even when it came time to tying my shoes, something as simple as that, it was just kind of like a reminder of where I come from and who I am, and what I'm capable of.
And, so that kind of grew into, now the acronym that I wrote the book through which is Can-Do, standing for community, authenticity, navigating negativity, loving the dash, being the journey, as well as seizing and providing opportunities. And so, I think that that has become my mantra. Little Can is excited to see the cover of "The Can- Do Mindset."
COLLINS: One of the things I'm always so fascinated by is like, how athletes learn to deal with things, like negativity, loss, injury, and how that can translate into lessons for you, in your other life, and other things you're doing, or for non-athletes even.
And you do talk about negativity here. And there's a scene with your dad where, when you had this career-threatening knee injury. You talk about how your dad stood you up and put you in front of a mirror, at the hotel that you were staying at.
You said you didn't want to look back at your reflection. You said, quote, "I didn't" even "love -- or even recognize -- the woman staring back at me." And "Truthfully, I felt sorry for myself. I pitied myself." But you said, he held you there until you really looked into the mirror and met your own eyes.
I wonder how that moment became a teachable one for you.
PARKER: Well, I think, immediately, whenever you hoist a trophy over your head, you remember why you're even standing up on that podium. And it was because of the moment, I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself and to lean into the process, and to really buy into the journey.
We don't know what's going to happen throughout our life. But I think every single time we go through something that doesn't work out, losses, setbacks, all of those things, I think it's like, it's bettering our mindset to prepare us, for what's to come later.
COLLINS: Someone else that was a mentor of yours, was also Kobe Bryant, who, I think, for so many people, obviously, was just this towering giant, not just in the sport, but also in his life view as well.
And there was a message that you share, before a crucial championship game, in 2016, where he had texted and asked how you were feeling.
You said, I questioned how to answer that. And you landed with, I want this so bad. And he said, Don't worry about the end result. It will come. Just play. And then he said, Do it the hard way. It always feels better that way anyway.
I wonder what his advice meant to you.
PARKER: It's crazy, because just watching him, before I got out to L.A., and then being able to have a chance to, like, actually be mentored by him, actually have conversations with him, actually pick his brain, it was unbelievable. He never wavered in success or failure.
[21:50:00]
And I think that it takes extremely special people, to really wholeheartedly lean in, and believe in the work that you put in. And sometimes, the work that you put in, it results in a game-winning air ball. And sometimes, it results in holding the follow through, it going down, and the crowd going crazy.
And I think the thing I learned from Kobe is you got to live with both, and you got to be able to rest your head on your pillow, living with both. And you put the work in, and then you relinquish the result. And I had to keep learning that lesson over and over and over again.
Fortunately, I had patient mentors, and ones that would reach out to me, and just were so gracious in reminding me of this process. Because, sometimes when you're young, you want things right now, you kind of forget about what it takes to get it.
And so, Kobe continues to be super-special within our household. I'm super-lucky. I think the thing for me too is watching him play, and seeing that mindset come to life. It wasn't just him texting it. Like, he lived it, breathed it and did it on a daily basis.
COLLINS: Yes. Candace Parker. The book is "The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions." You have so many exciting things, having this, your jersey being retired. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.
PARKER: Thank you so much. Everyone, go check out "The Can-Do Mindset."
COLLINS: Up next here on THE SOURCE. A behind-the-scenes look at one of the most epic breakups in politics, during another consequential week at the White House.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A behind-the-scenes look tonight, at what was a dramatic and, clearly, consequential week in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, June 2.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have seen two horrific cases of antisemitic violence, in our country, in the last two weeks, and it is unacceptable.
COLLINS: President Trump weighed in on social media, following that horrific attack, in Boulder, saying, that these kind of attacks will not be tolerated in the United States. But also, using the moment to go after his predecessor, blaming President Biden for allowing the suspect here, to come into the United States.
MOHAMED SABRY SOLIMAN, SUSPECT CHARGED IN THE ANTISEMITIC ATTACK IN BOULDER, COLORADO: End Zionists.
COLLINS: Now, the suspect is an Egyptian national. He did actually come into the United States, legally, on a tourist visa. But according to the Department of Homeland Security, after that visa expired, he stayed in the United States, illegally.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, June 3.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mic check. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10.
LEAVITT: Good afternoon, everybody.
COLLINS: Karoline.
LEAVITT: Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Two questions for you as well. On the big, beautiful bill, you said recently that it is, quote, Blatantly wrong to say that it adds to the deficit. You essentially said that an estimate from the Congressional Budget Office and other scorekeepers, you believe, are wrong.
But Republicans, like Ron Johnson and Rand Paul, disagree. They are saying that it will add to the deficit. That is their concern.
Is the White House's position that those two Republican senators are, quote, Blatantly wrong?
LEAVITT: It is.
COLLINS: White House officials were not expecting Elon Musk to come out swinging against President Trump's so-called big, beautiful bill. But he made his criticism quite public, on Tuesday, actually, in the middle of the White House press briefing, when he came out and called it a disgusting abomination, called it massive, and said it was filled with pork.
Now, Republican senators might not have put it quite like that. But some of them have also expressed concerns with estimates that say that this bill, if passed, as it is today, as it came to the Senate from the House, would add trillions of dollars to the federal deficit. ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, June 4.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have probably one minute to decide.
COLLINS: I guess, today, I just think it's probably better for me to be over there asking questions to Thune and Barrasso.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We all want to thank the President and his team for hosting us down here. We had a very positive discussion about the path forward on the big, beautiful bill, and the reconciliation bill.
COLLINS: Senator Thune, just to follow up on that. Elon Musk said today that the bill should be killed and that you should start all over. Are you saying that that's not going to happen?
THUNE: No. I mean, we're a long ways down this track.
We're committed to making a law that will make the lives of the American people better.
COLLINS: And Senator, what did the President have to say about Elon Musk, during the meeting? Was he frustrated with him?
SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): No. I mean, look, Elon -- he called Elon a genius, and he also said that, he said that we've got a difference of opinion right now.
COLLINS: When Elon Musk says the bill should be killed and you should start over, is there any chance of that happening, in your view?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): There is none. We need to get as much done as we possibly can get done, and then keep moving.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, June 5.
TRUMP: Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we will anymore.
I'd rather have him criticize me than the bill, because the bill is incredible.
COOPER: What are your sources telling you about behind-the-scenes?
COLLINS: I mean, this day, just the messages alone today, hearing from White House officials, it was kind of this mixture of amusement and horror, inside the West Wing.
Allies of both President Trump and Elon Musk's were trying to quietly and carefully broker some kind of peace between the two men, when it was clear that their criticisms over each other, over President Trump's signature policy bill, were going public, on Thursday.
[22:00:00]
But there was a moment, when those quiet conversations were happening, behind-the-scenes, seemed to be totally derailed. And that was when Musk posted on X, accusing Trump of being involved in what is known as the Epstein files, the files related to the notorious Jeffrey Epstein. That was when those allies of both Musk and Trump realized that maybe things had hit a breaking point, and there was no going back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Quite a week in Washington.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
