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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Deploying 2,000 More National Guard Troops To L.A.; Demonstrators Throwing Projectiles; Now: Tense Standoff Between Law Enforcement, L.A. Protesters. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 09, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --just about 20 seconds left, Chair. Any sign this has spread beyond that downtown area, near the Federal Building, in Los Angeles, at this point?
Voice of KATHRYN BARGER, CHAIR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: No. No. At this point, it is all centered around the Federal Building downtown, both where they have the jails, as well as where they do processing.
BERMAN: Right. All right. Chair Kathryn Barger, we do appreciate your insight on all this. Thank you so much for your time.
The news continues. The situation continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening from Washington, where, tonight, the White House is keeping a close eye on what's unfolding in Los Angeles, right now. It's just now 06:00 p.m., there, as the situation on the ground has been tense, throughout the evening, as officials are keeping a close eye on scenes like what you're looking at here.
CNN's Erin Burnett is live on the ground, where officials in California, and here in Washington, have now confirmed thousands of more National Guard troops are being sent.
And Erin, obviously, everyone's kind of watching in real-time, especially as we get closer and closer to when the sun sets there, as to what's happening. What have you been seeing, on the ground, and how has it changed in the last few hours?
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, so they do, Kaitlan, as you said, exactly, that's it. They want to get everyone out by darkness. And it's actually interesting, as they've been trying to do that, and moving crowds with essentially these front lines, long lines of police that have been standing off with people, with protesters, it's almost seemed as if there's more and more people. It's become visible how many people are here. But their goal is to get everyone out by dark.
We've heard a lot of flash-bangs and explosions when there have been things thrown at police. So there will be people throwing plastic bottles. Sometimes, glass bottles. That's met with rubber bullets. Flash-bangs. Suddenly people will start running. So it turns on a dime.
Kaitlan, right behind where I'm standing, though, you see a lot of people who are now, it does look as if Orlando (ph), they're turning and moving towards us.
So Kaitlan, this line of police have been right here--
COLLINS: Yes, Erin, I don't--
BURNETT: --along the crosswalk that -- yes.
COLLINS: And Erin, I don't know, you can't -- you can't see this from where your vantage point is, I don't think. But we see the members of the National Guard that you were reporting near, earlier, moving around the side of that building. It's not clear where they're going, but we can see them. They have their shields and their batons with them, as they are making their way around the perimeter of that building.
Can you just -- how many people out there? How many people -- have the crowds been growing here? And what has that looked like?
BURNETT: Well, so we're looking at that line too, along the building. People -- they have been all in front. So, they had -- there are still National Guard in front of that building. But those, as you're talking about, Kaitlan, have moved along the side. It's unclear exactly where they're going.
But where we're walking, right now, as I say, you can see plenty of members of the press as well, moving up to another front line of police. But this line has moved back by about 50 feet. So, the police actually backed up.
So it's unclear, right now, whether they are trying to move -- going to suddenly turn around and push everybody back, because the direction that we're coming from is where they've been trying to push crowds to, over that direction, to the park -- oops, I'm sorry. To the park and up that road there.
So you can see here now, if we can see. Generally what happens here is you'll start to see a line. The police are all in a line. Protesters line up in front of them. It essentially becomes a front line, sort of like a trench in between the two. And then sometimes someone will throw something, and then that will be met with a flash-bang or any sort of a rubber bullet. So, we're just watching here.
We're sort of staying to the side, because when the crowd moves, they move very quickly, and people could get quite panicked. But all of this is a strategy. There are some officers, Kaitlan, even up on the roofs, we have seen here, observing. They've had drones as they're trying to figure out exactly how they want to move, to strategize to get these crowds out.
But there are fewer people than there were. There are still a lot of people. There is no mass movement out of here at all at this point. So, we're just showing you here, this front line here, which, as I said, is now moved back about a 100 feet. So it's unclear whether these officers are going to keep being pushed back by protesters. or suddenly they're going to turn. But the anticipation is, is that they're suddenly going to turn. So we'll keep watching that here.
I know Jason and Kyung may have different vantage points from where I am right now.
But you can see this line of officers here. And Kaitlan, this is a mix of officers. Most of them, California State Police in this line that you're seeing here. But there's National Guard, there's State Police, there's Border Patrol, there's LAPD, all of them, Highway police. There's a mix.
And the ones that have the big green weapons there, those are rubber -- rubber bullets that we have seen fired, as well as pepper balls that have been fired into this crowd, that we've seen plenty of. One of them actually, just a few moments ago--
COLLINS: Yes.
BURNETT: --kind of hit someone, ricocheted, and then hit us. So, they're out -- they're out in the crowd.
COLLINS: Yes, and we saw -- we've seen the LAPD commenting on, on what's been happening as they're trying to do this crowd control.
Erin, keep us updated on what you're seeing.
Jason Carroll is also there.
Kyung Lah, also on the ground.
[21:05:00]
Kyung, can you tell us what you're seeing right now?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: To listen to the LAPD radios, there -- there's no secret here. I mean, the protesters can listen as well.
Everything that Erin was talking about, like, why they're backing up, why they're moving forward, that is intentional. What they are trying to do is to push the crowd into a controllable space. Some of the running that you're seeing, that's a flash-bang, one of the, you know, the water bottle, perhaps, thrown or firecracker thrown at law enforcement. And then, law enforcement responds. But the entire idea here is crowd control. What you're seeing here is the back of the LAPD line. They have successfully been able to clear the steps of the Federal Building, where it was an hours-long standoff. It was very hot. Tempers were starting to flare. And so, they have been successful. Just swing over here, and you can see, there's no more -- there's no more crowd here. That has been a success.
And then over here, in case something does happen, plenty of law enforcement. This is the Sheriff's department. They are here, ready to respond should anything happen.
And I just have to tell you, Kaitlan, this is vastly different than what we saw, last night, where crowds were all over the place, and really able to set cars on fire, and especially as night fell, really take over parts of the city, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And when you been hearing -- what kind of instructions have they been giving to people, as they're clearing them out? Or is it -- they're just kind of moving forward, and moving those lines back, Kyung?
LAH: They're holding up, at times, and they are very loudly, verbally saying, Move back. Move back. And it's very clear. It's very simple. They have been told to back up, and to just basically clear the area. And they use as few words as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave the area.
LAH: And you could here, Move.
COLLINS: And there you go. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave the area.
LAH: Leave the area.
COLLINS: So, are they just kind of doing it a few feet at a time, Kyung? Is that what you've noticed as you've been standing over in this position?
LAH: They're getting instructions, over the radio, to coordinate.
(FIRECRACKER BURSTS)
LAH: That's a firecracker. We've seen protesters throwing firecrackers. And then it looks like someone tried to break through the line. You see this scooter, right here?
COLLINS: Yes.
LAH: So someone broke through the line. That is somebody, on the ground, being detained right now. So, if they don't listen to police orders, that's what happens. That person tried to use that scooter, to zip through law enforcement, and you can see his Zip Tie's on, and that person is being detained, as we are watching.
Oh, here we go. Wait. We need to backup. Back up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here.
LAH: Back up. Do you have your mask?
OK. So, we're getting some signal that they're going to be using some tear gas right now.
Are you from the Sheriff's department?
COLLINS: Oh, and that's they're instructing you to back up.
LAH: You can see -- Mike (ph) over here, the sheriff -- I was showing you the next wave of law enforcement, and that is what you are seeing.
COLLINS: Oh.
(NON-LETHAL SHOTS FIRED)
LAH: And you can see the weapon there. That is a non-lethal device. And that is to clear the crowd.
COLLINS: And is that something that you've seen them use--
LAH: OK--
COLLINS: --since you've been over there, Kyung? Or is this -- this is the first time you're seeing them actually take this step?
LAH: This particular Sheriff-type vehicle with this number of law enforcement, this second wave, it is the first time I have personally seen it, here in Downtown, Los Angeles, in this instance. I've seen it deployed, in other cases, in other civil unrest, other disturbances. But in this particular wave, this is the first time I've seen these vehicles come out, in this order.
And this is organized. You can ask John. This is exactly, as they are hoping to try to clear. And then you can see the lineup of the Sheriff's deputies.
(NON-LETHAL SHOTS FIRED)
COLLINS: OK. Kyung, we're going to -- we're going to watch you. We're going to--
LAH: And then take a look, Mike (ph), over to your left.
COLLINS: We're going to keep an eye on your camera, as it watches what those sheriffs are doing.
John Miller, if you're here, you can just weigh in on what we're seeing. As Kyung is saying, this is the first time she's seen them use it, in this particular instance, in this moment.
Voice of JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, what you're looking at there is the L.A. County Sheriff's Department. They have become the second line of defense, with LAPD moving the crowd forward.
[21:10:00]
You saw that vehicle. It's the -- it's the BearCat vehicle, which is an armored vehicle, and the people coming out of the top of that with those weapons. Those can fire projectiles that have OC gas, or a tear gas, or some kind of irritant that will make the area not inhabitable by a crowd that wants to stay there for long.
Here you see the LAPD line--
COLLINS: OK.
Voice of MILLER: --now moving off--
COLLINS: John Miller, standby one second.
Voice of MILLER: Yes. Sure.
COLLINS: Because I want you to keep weighing on this.
But I want to go to John Carroll -- Jason Carroll, who's also live in Los Angeles.
Jason, what are you seeing over there? We were just checking in with you.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, we are right behind the police line, with these demonstrators who have been pushed back for the, I would say, for the past minute or so.
And Kaitlan, what we've been seeing is, you know I've been talking about some of these bad actors. A number of them were here in this group, wearing black hoodies, throwing rocks. We've seen them throwing rocks, throwing projectiles, at some of these officers.
You see the LAPD, some of the front line of these officers, continuing to use their flash-bangs, using pepper -- pepper -- pepper guns as well. But the projectiles keep coming from this direction.
And just to give you just a little bit of insight, in terms of the dynamic of what's been happening out here with this crowd. At one point -- we move up here -- at one point, I heard one of these people out here, one of the demonstrators turn to one of the other guys and said, Stop throwing the bottles. And he said to her, he said, If you can't handle what we're about to do here on the front line, you need to get out. And she left. And so, that's what you're dealing with here.
The crowd is not as big. It is more contained than perhaps what they saw, over the weekend. But it just takes a few, as you know, some of these bad characters, to get into a group like this, to antagonize officers, to antagonize members of the LAPD, where, here--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peaceful protest. CARROLL: --you can see here, they are continuing to push the line back, push them away from the Federal Building here, slowly, surely, and steadily, moving them back. And then, anytime someone throws something, you have a response from the LAPD, which could be a flash- bang, or some other device to get the crowd to move back.
I know these images are dramatic. They are. But this is what we are witnessing, is a trained force of officers, who are handling some of these people who are unruly. These people are trained. And it's very clear, from what they're doing, and from the way that they are able to push this crowd back.
They've now been pushed back some, what, 200, 300 feet. You can see some more of them rushing in, at this point, to reinforce that front line, which is what they've been doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're rounding--
COLLINS: The more they push the crowd back, the more they get officers in, to reinforce that front line.
CARROLL: But again, the projectiles keep coming. And it looks as if they're going to keep pushing them back out of the area.
Earlier, we were saying that the officers were using a great deal of restraint. And that is the case even now, even with this dramatic video that you're looking at now, even with all of these dramatic pictures here. They could be doing a lot more. And they are continuing to do as they've been trained, move these people back--
COLLINS: Yes.
CARROLL: --in an orderly fashion, to get them--
COLLINS: And--
CARROLL: --to get them out of the way.
COLLINS: Jason, can you just put this in perspective for us? Because we're looking at where you are, where Erin is, where Kyung Lah is. Can you just give us perspective of how big this entire area is, in terms of how spread-out these protests are? Are they rather contained, based on what you've seen today? Or just, what does this look like, if you had a bird's eye view of this?
CARROLL: Good question. And let me see if I can get our photographer here to widen out, because they want to get a perspective.
There you can see the Federal Building in the background. And I don't know how wide the photographer can get. But you can see, right now, members of the -- of the National Guard, which are directly in front of that building. That building takes up a square block, right?
And so we, initially, were in the very front of that building, Kaitlan. And you can now -- we push back this way. I want to show them over here to the left, to see how far now we've been steadily pushed away by LAPD. And you can hear--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep moving.
CARROLL: We're going. We're going.
You can hear the LAPD telling us to keep moving in this direction, which we're going to do. And they're steadily and slowly moving the crowd back.
COLLINS: Yes.
CARROLL: So, I hope that gives you some perspective--
COLLINS: Jason--
CARROLL: --in terms of where we were--
COLLINS: Yes. Jason, standby.
CARROLL: --and where the crowd was, and where we are now.
COLLINS: Standby one second. I'm going to check back in with you.
I want to go back to Erin Burnett.
Erin, what are you seeing right now?
BURNETT: Yes. All right. So, what we're seeing here, right now, this -- we've got to stand off on this line as well, just everyone's being pushed back. I just want to give us a chance. OK. So, the officers are also pushing us. I was just pushed, as they're trying to move us down a little bit.
They're just saying, Move the area.
Yes. Yes. Yes. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're seeing no reason why they're doing that (ph).
[21:15:00]
BURNETT: You could just see the tension. They're yelling, Leave the area, Leave the area. Then the crowd moves back a little bit. It moves back a little bit. You see another line established, Kaitlan. But I think you could just see the tension there, right? I mean, obviously, they knew we're media, and they were just as happy to push me as to push anybody else, right? They want everybody out of here.
Then it stops, as you can see right now. Let's pan over here. You can see the entire line. Sorry about that. As people are walking in front. Orlando (ph) if you could just, if we go over there, you can see all of this with these vehicles.
And then if you -- Orlando (ph) would go behind, you can see there's not that many people right here along the front. They have been very successful, as Jason and Kyung were saying, Kaitlan. But there's still these people here, and now this tense front line, as we see it here.
COLLINS: So, Erin, are they ultimately just moving people--
BURNETT: They might just sort of appear to be waiting, as Kyung was talking about, and you see it happens. Yes.
COLLINS: Yes, several feet at a time, essentially trying to get them further and further away from the building, where you were -- where you were reporting from earlier.
BURNETT: Yes, absolutely. So, the direction that our camera is pointing, right now, if you just go straight through that next stoplight, you're going to be at the edge of the Federal Building, where we stood this morning, and where we were all day.
And now they're saying, Leave the area, and you can see that we're going to start moving back. Now, obviously, we're walking backwards, so we're going slowly. I'm going to scoot my -- Orlando (ph) is back as well. As you see -- you can see that's how--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're moving us. But they know our message will--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: And--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The voice never dies. They're movement might--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: The man that you see here was just in a push and shove with one of the officers back there.
Now they're pointing some of the weapons out here, at the crowd, those would be the rubber bullet weapons. And when that happens, everybody--
COLLINS: Erin, had the crowds dwindled--
BURNETT: --sort of steps aside. We're going to step aside.
COLLINS: Yes. Have the crowds dwindled at all--
BURNETT: Yes, Kaitlan, they have. It has been successful.
COLLINS: --as the officers had been pushing them?
BURNETT: Yes, they have. And as you can tell, there are a lot of media. There are a lot of people trying to chronicle this. So, you see that as well, Kaitlan. But there are still hundreds of people behind, where we're right now, filming, obviously, this line of police officers. Right behind Orlando (ph), there's a 100 or 200 maybe 300 people back there, all the way down the road.
So what they're doing is essentially just shifting where people are, and hoping that they start to disperse, as they get further and further away from the Federal Building, to more streets. That's the process that we're seeing.
And then it just stops and starts, as Kyung and Jason have been describing it, and they're on different street corners. 20 minutes ago, we would have all been very close to each other. Now, as it pushes away, we're in a little bit of different spots, because they're pushing it down different streets.
COLLINS: And Erin, what have you been hearing from the protesters there about why they're there?
I mean, we heard from the President's border czar, Tom Homan, who was talking about, they're going to continue the immigration efforts that were at the center and the beginning of all of this. The Los Angeles Mayor, Karen Bass, was saying earlier that she had a conversation with him about stopping them. Obviously, that's not their plan.
But have people been saying that that is why they are there? Or what have you heard from any of the protesters?
BURNETT: Yes, they have. You know what's been really interesting, Kaitlan, too, is there were a lot of Mexican flags. There was Mexican music. And then there was one man that had both a Mexican and an American flag. And we started seeing some of that.
There is -- and when you talk to people, it is indistinguishable from many people here, their frustration with Trump, Trump overall, and Trump's policies, and ICE, and immigration. A lot of the chants that we've heard upcoming organically, of the crowd, have been about ICE itself and ICE's methods. So it's very much immigration-focused.
But I would say, it is very fair to say, among the people we've been speaking to, that there's also just a real feeling of palpable anger at Trump himself. Fascism, graffiti about fascists, and that is inextricably tied to their frustration with immigration itself. At least among the people that we've been talking to.
Erin, standby, I want to check back in with you.
Also joining me right now is the Lieutenant Governor of California, Eleni Kounalakis.
And it's great to have you here, given what we're watching on the ground tonight. Can you just tell us what you have been hearing about the latest, and what you've been seeing on the ground, in your state?
ELENI KOUNALAKIS, (D) CALIFORNIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Well, Kaitlan, I think we have to look at this in perspective, over the last few days.
It started with about 400 people in Los Angeles, in two separate locations, protesting the ICE raids. And then Donald Trump announced that, in spite of the fact that local law enforcement could handle 400 people, he was going to federalize the National Guard, without consultation or agreement with the Governor, and send the National Guard in. What that did was throw gasoline on a flame, and that is what has exploded it, into this situation, right now, where you just heard people are saying, Yes, it's about immigration. It's also about Donald Trump.
So, we have a president that, instead of trying to bring people together, be calm, advance good public policy, is just trying to turn people against each other, inflame emotions. And Donald Trump is the one who has absolutely created the escalation, in this situation.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and the administration has pushed back on that. I talked to the President's border czar, earlier, and he said, basically, that officials in California were not doing enough to contain what was happening on Friday, and what they were seeing, and that is why they felt compelled to send in the National Guard.
How would you respond to that?
KOUNALAKIS: That's just ridiculous. I mean, look at what you're seeing right now. The front line is Los Angeles Police Department. That's who is there on the ground. Behind them is the Los Angeles sheriffs. That is absolutely adequate force to be able to contain these challenges.
He, in this situation, he found an opening, an opportunity, to suggest that California is not doing enough, and then used that opportunity to show a heavy hand show of force, which is part of the Donald Trump sort of theater that he's always seeking for himself.
If he had not done that, if he had just picked up the phone to the Governor, and said, You should send a few more police, I mean, it absolutely could have been handled very differently, and in many other ways that would not have caused this escalation.
COLLINS: What do you make of the Marines that they've deployed? There are several hundred Marines that we're told that are basically in the Los Angeles area on standby, by the Pentagon's orders. The Defense Secretary himself confirmed this.
And then tonight, they have also confirmed they've ordered and mobilized an additional 2,000 members of the National Guard, in California, in addition to the 2,000 that were already activated. Only about 300 are actually being used.
What do you make of that announcement?
KOUNALAKIS: Let me start with the Marines. You know, I was a U.S. ambassador. I worked side by side with Marines. They are the best- trained fighting force that we have in the United States. They are trained to go and fight wars. They are not trained to de-escalate crowds of American citizens. This is not what they do. Again, it's part of Donald Trump, sort of flexing and trying to, I don't know, make -- make some kind of a statement.
But the fact of the matter is that for him to bring in Marines requires the use of the Insurgency Act, which there is no basis for that. So, again, this seems to be more than bluster, because he is either -- either moving them from one location to another, or deploying. It's a little unclear, at this point. But there is no need for the Marines to come in. This is not what they do. And it is absolutely unprecedented that the Marines would come into a situation to be turned on Americans.
COLLINS: Lieutenant Governor, thank you for joining us on this breaking news tonight. Appreciate your time. We'll see where your lawsuit against the Trump administration goes.
I want to go back to Jason Carroll, who is live on the ground.
Jason, tell us what you're seeing.
CARROLL: Well, just a few moments ago, Kaitlan, we saw a number of officers rushing to what, to the site of a local news van, which had been vandalized. They smashed the front windshield.
I'm going to show you. It was right down here, right down the street where we are now. We're just a couple blocks away from where we were, when we initially began talking to, from the Federal Center.
You can see some more demonstrators now starting to surround that, that news van. It's a Telemundo news van. The officers trying to get more of those demonstrators to get away from that van, after they -- after they vandalized it.
And then they came running down to this intersection, where you see here, and they're now holding this line, here at this intersection at 1st Street and Los Angeles, where there, again, if you just look up the street there, just a little bit, you can see another small group of protesters starting to gather. So.
COLLINS: OK.
CARROLL: Again, part of the strategy here, in terms of what they're doing, is trying to get as many people as they can, to move away from that area, to steadily move, a line of officers, to steadily move the protesters back--
COLLINS: OK, Jason.
CARROLL: --away from the Federal Center, and as far away from the area as they can.
COLLINS: Jason Carroll, I'll check back in with you in just a moment. We can hear that rubbing up in the background.
Erin Burnett, I want to get back to you, as what you're seeing is they're moving the crowd further and further back from where you were just a few moments ago even.
BURNETT: And they're moving so quickly. Someone actually--
COLLINS: Yes, Erin, we can't -- we can't totally hear you. I don't know--
BURNETT: I'm sorry. Let me see if I can get it a little better. You hear me better now?
COLLINS: Yes, yes, much better, yes, go ahead.
[21:25:00]
BURNETT: OK. We're really right along the line here, and we're moving pretty quickly. They've been -- this line started moving, and it was some sort of a foam bomb or rubber bullets. We couldn't really tell from the canisters immediately, what just came. But they moved very fast. There were a bunch of people who fell over backwards, and then they just proceeded to walk right through them. Now, that could have escalated, but it didn't. They were able to get back up and keep moving.
And now, they're yelling, Hold.
If you hear that yelling, Hold. So they're going to establish a line here.
COLLINS: Yes.
BURNETT: Sorry, now we're on the corner of 1st and Los Angeles, and you see all the law enforcement vehicles, Kaitlan, as I said, very much a part of that moving behind here right now. So now we're on the corner of 1st and Los Angeles, so we're two blocks away from that Federal Building.
COLLINS: So you moved about two blocks in that. Obviously, they're just trying to clear them out from the Federal Building, as this is going on, in the protest. They're concerned. Obviously, what we heard from the Mayor earlier, is that, it will get worse as it gets darker at night, and they're trying to stop things from getting out of control.
BURNETT: You see right now, Orlando (ph) is going to try to get a picture. All right, if you look down here, this is what -- you see that man walking down. But what you see here is a line of law enforcement, and a line of protesters. Right that line, and then just the sort of just a small gap of about a foot or two in between them.
COLLINS: Erin, we were talking to the Lieutenant Governor. And she was making the point that what you're seeing is the Los Angeles Police Department, or the Sheriff's office, that is doing the safety measures right here, and getting the protesters back.
The members of the National Guard that you saw earlier, were they just around the Federal Building, and that was it?
BURNETT: Yes, that is the only place we've seen them. And that's actually an important thing to say, where we are right now.
Where we are right now, all of these officers that you see are California police officers. These are LAPD that you're looking at right here, in this line, these officers are LAPD. We've seen County Sheriff, and we've seen Customs and Border Patrol, Los Angeles Metro. But all of these are Los Angeles Police, every single one that I can see.
The National Guard, were along the Federal Building, and they've moved along the Federal Building. We have not seen them leave the premises of the Federal Building, which, of course, they are there to specifically be protecting that building itself. And we have not seen them move from there.
These officers that you are looking right now, in Orlando's (ph) shot, every single one of them is from L.A. or L.A. County.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Traitor.
COLLINS: You can see that protester there, yelling at the members of the LAPD, they're standing there.
BURNETT: Sometimes they will respond. You'll see them with the batons come out. They'll point them at someone and push them away, using the baton to push. Generally though, they are really just trying to move the crowd. Even when they've moved us, they'll put a hand on your back, and they will just steer you very firmly.
There has been some pushing and shoving back and forth between protesters and police, but not -- not a lot, not a lot. It has been upon provocation.
Now, this officer is just being sent to -- this one to go to somewhere--
All right, now they're establishing, it looks like, even another line, and all those officers are moving through and--
All right, so now they're going to try to push us down a different street here. As you can see, we are now moving backwards. So they just came and broke that line, now moving this crowd down a different direction. So they're trying to separate the crowd and move us down in two different directions, which is exactly what John Miller was talking about.
COLLINS: John Miller, if you're still with us, and can hear me--
BURNETT: We're just moving back here, as we're told.
COLLINS: Yes. And Erin, we're watching your shot. We're keeping an eye on this.
John Miller, if you're still here, can you just talk about what weapons these officers are using? The green gun, I heard you describing this earlier, and I thought that was really helpful.
Voice of MILLER: So that is the FN 303, or another model of the same thing. It fires what Erin was talking about. It's called a foam rubber baton round. So you put a canister in there, it's three of those. And what you generally do is -- it's not supposed to be a direct fire round, meaning its intended use is not to fire it from that gun to a specific person.
But when things start coming from the crowd, bottles, bricks, debris, whatever it is, you fire that canister into the ground, and that high velocity rubber round hits the ground, and then bounces up, so it will hit people in the lower extremities or the mid-section. That's its intended tactical use.
And it is a riot-control agent that will help push a crowd back. It's usually aimed at the ground, so that if the people in the front of the crowd move back, the people behind them generally move back too. We've also seen some deployment of what is probably CS gas, which is an irritant that they can release into the air. And that's it.
[21:30:00]
But this is what they call the less-lethal weaponry. So, you're not hitting people over the head with clubs. You can use pepper spray, these less-lethal weapons. But what they're trying to do is make up for the fact that they don't have the numbers of police, by balancing that out with these less-lethal weapons, and getting some compliance. So, you've got the night sticks, the less-lethal weapons and the gas options.
And as Erin said, they're trying to -- they're trying to push the crowd in multiple directions, so you don't end up just moving a large crowd from one place to another, but you start to break up the crowd into side streets, into different places. So, at some point, they'll be smaller, and they'll say, Well, how do we get home? And that's what -- that's what they're going for.
COLLINS: Yes. John Miller, thank you for that, and stand by because your expertise has been so helpful in this.
We are going to take a very short commercial break. We'll be right back, as we are following the breaking news, and watching very closely what's unfolding in Los Angeles tonight.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We are tracking live developments out of Los Angeles, right now, as the situation on the ground has been unfolding. We've been hearing from officials there, including the Mayor, Karen Bass, tonight, as she was talking about what the situation looks like, and what they are hoping to avoid by the time darkness falls in Los Angeles. This is something the White House has been watching very closely.
CNN's Erin Burnett is live on the ground.
Erin, tell us what you've been seeing, in just these last few moments as the, of course, the officials there have been pushing the crowds back slower and increasingly in distance, though, from that Federal Building, where you were reporting from earlier. BURNETT: Yes, so there were a lot of loud explosions. Then there were, as I said, maybe some foam canisters that seemed to go off, some sort of pieces of glass that were flying everywhere. That was a very tense moment here, just walking down the street.
Right now, we're at the corner of -- well, it goes Judge John Aiso Street, going one way, San Pedro, the other on 1st Street. And what they've essentially done is blocked all three crosswalks.
And now this whole situation has moved into actual Los Angeles traffic. So one point we were walking, and there's people in their cars, sort of huddled, looking terrified, as all these police officers are walking by them, and protesters, and then trying to sort of, some of them scared, some of them desperately trying to back up and turn around, but literally, just suddenly moving into Los Angeles traffic. So these weren't even streets that had been blocked off.
And now, on this corner, you can see, we have all three corners. So, the group of the police--
You can see some more flash-bangs off in the distance behind. Actually, if you see up there, we can see that smoke. But they started running along the street, and then they blocked the crosswalk.
So right now they're trying to keep all of this crowd continuing to go straight. No -- they don't want any crowd turning down. They're not trying to disperse the crowd here.
The issue is, as it continues to move where we are, Kaitlan, you're now just in the middle of traffic. So there's all sorts of cars in the middle of this. As we can -- I mean, if you turn around here, you can see, these vehicles that are here are just people that are driving in Los Angeles that are now stuck in the middle of this.
COLLINS: And what are the police doing? Are they trying to help navigate these cars out? I mean, obviously that doesn't seem to be like a safe situation, to have cars in the middle of all these protesters. Are they trying to help direct traffic to get them out of there?
BURNETT: No.
COLLINS: Or what is that looking like?
BURNETT: Well, I am not seeing any directing traffic at all, no. Just these lines of police is sort of a fit -- you know, you're on your own if your car, in this right now.
And as you've now become used to the rhythm of what we're seeing here, it's a pause, and then it will start to move. So, I stood here for a couple of moments, and now we're going to start to move. And these police on this line. And one of these police officers I have now seen for the past hour, because we've been behind this line. So now they're going to keep pushing the crowd this way.
It is unclear exactly where we are being pushed to, at this point. But now we're going to -- they will move again. And it's unclear exactly where they're receiving their orders from. But they are very clearly receiving orders. They're not improvising this on the fly. I think that's really important to realize. There was suddenly a group of, say, 40 of them, and they run along the side. They go, they block another crosswalk, so.
And now let's just -- as we're walking here, let's just give you a feel for this. So you're just here. This is an Uber driver. We're just in the middle of Los Angeles now.
COLLINS: How far are you, Erin--
BURNETT: With all from across--
COLLINS: --from where you were, just even 30 minutes ago, when we first checked in with you?
BURNETT: I would say we are about two or three long Los Angeles city blocks. So it's moving, but it's moving in a very stop-and-go fashion.
COLLINS: And for the most part, have you seen people complying, as they are trying to move people back? I mean, that's what it looks like, so far, as we've been watching that front line with you.
BURNETT: They are complying. They're frustrated. Some of them will come up to the police and say, Deescalate, Deescalate. Or they'll sit down, and the police officers will just take those batons, and continue to push people through.
So, as we're waiting here, we are going to have to move, obviously, as you can see in a second. And we don't really have a lot of space here on the side, because the barricades are where we are. These barricades have nothing to do with the protests. They're just a restaurant outdoor area. But that's what's causing a little bit of a logjam where we are right now.
And you see these officers, that officer there, right in the middle, yelling, Go home, Go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just go home.
[21:40:00]
BURNETT: And you can see those canisters there. That was the gun that John Miller was talking about, those green guns. You can see the gun--
COLLINS: Yes.
BURNETT: Yes. All right. So you could that--
COLLINS: Which he said basically have a foam rubber baton round--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: --now obviously I'm right next to them.
COLLINS: --and then they use to, to disperse protesters.
BURNETT: Yes. Yes. And we've seen those in some of those canisters. And some of those, when they -- some of the things that they're firing, sort of can ricochet off a lot of people. And some of that we -- you know, we felt some of that too.
All right. Now they're yelling, Hold.
Sorry, the Mexican flag. All right. So, and now they'll -- all right, so now they'll hold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave the area.
BURNETT: All right, this guy, all right -- all right. You just -- you can see what we're looking at here. That gun.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Just make sure--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) put that gun down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I know you're doing your job (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell do you want (inaudible)?
COLLINS: And Erin, are most of these people still the protesters? Or are they intermixing with people who are just there, or on the sidewalk, populating these restaurants, going into these businesses?
BURNETT: It is hard to tell. But I feel very comfortable telling you, almost all of them are here for the protests. And that's who you're seeing right now. Whether there were people also in this area, before the protest, that's possible, but I don't see any evidence of that right now. Everybody that you're looking at right now is related to the protest, or also filming it, media, like ourselves.
Now we wait again. And now that officer, as you could see with his -- with that weapon, that weapon is now lowered from that particular -- oh, now it's back up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peaceful protests.
BURNETT: And there's -- now you see the man in front of him, sort of back to him trying to, in a sense, taunt him to shoot it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peaceful protests.
(PROTESTERS CHANTING "PEACEFUL PROTESTS")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peaceful protests.
(PROTESTERS CHANTING "PEACEFUL PROTESTS")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peaceful protests.
(PROTESTERS CHANTING "PEACEFUL PROTESTS")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peaceful protests.
(PROTESTERS CHANTING "PEACEFUL PROTESTS")
COLLINS: All right, Erin, standby. We're going to continue.
BURNETT: You can hear them, Kaitlan, right there, saying, Peaceful protests.
COLLINS: Yes, we can hear them, as they're right there.
We're going to continue to watch this, as Trump officials are also watching what is happening, right now, on the ground, in Los Angeles. President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, is actually there on the ground. And as we've been talking about, why the National Guard has been deployed, what the White House's basis is for that, we asked him about that.
We're going to continue to watch what is happening here, on the ground. Keep these pictures up.
But I also want you to listen to what Tom Homan's rationale was, for why they have deployed the National Guard, and hundreds of Marines, to that scene that you're seeing now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Thank you for being here.
What we're seeing right now is the first time, since 1965, that a president has actually activated a state's National Guard without a request coming from that state's governor. Why was that necessary here?
TOM HOMAN, TRUMP'S BORDER CZAR: Well, it's because Governor Newsom and Democratic leaders of California weren't acting -- weren't quick enough to act.
I mean, I was on -- I've been here since Wednesday, last week, to initiate an operation, and things got out of control quickly, Friday night and Saturday. And, I mean, the President took quick action to deploy the National Guard to protect government property that was being destroyed, protecting our agents and officers, and protecting general public.
I think that President Trump did exactly the right thing. He's trying to prevent another Minnesota from 2020, trying to prevent another Portland, Seattle tragedy. So, I'm happy he deployed the National Guard.
COLLINS: Well, speaking of 2020, there was a comment that the President made then, about whether or not he could deploy and activate the National Guard. I want you to listen to what he said then. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have laws. We have to go by the laws. We can't move in the National Guard. I can call Insurrection, but there's no reason to ever do that, even in a Portland case. We can't call in the National Guard unless we're requested by a governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The law, of course, has not changed since then. So what has?
HOMAN: You know I'm not an -- look, I'm not an attorney. And all I know is I'm on calls, every day, with the heads of DOD and DOJ, so we got the -- we got legal minds in DOJ and DOD -- DOD, excuse me, and DOJ, are making these decisions. So, I certainly think the President's acting within the confines of the law. I mean, I'm on phone calls every day, and these lawyers are making these decisions. So, I stand by it.
COLLINS: But I think some people may look at that and say, Well, one, you know the law very well. Obviously, you worked in deportations when President Obama was in office. You're now back in this role.
HOMAN: Well, I know -- I know -- I know immigration law very well. But I do not -- I'm not an expert on constitutional law, or insurrection law, or national -- you know that that's out of my -- out of my way.
[21:45:00]
I simply am thankful that whatever President Trump decided, that was backed up by attorneys, and Department of Justice, and Department of Defense. I'm just glad he deployed those National Guards here, because I think they're saving lives, I think they're protecting property.
COLLINS: Well, some people might look and say, If this has not been something that any president has done, and hasn't happened since the 1960s, is this the worst protest that has happened, since then, warranting that?
HOMAN: Look, I was on the ground, Friday night, where hundreds and hundreds of protesters, who were protesting, obviously also -- some became criminals. They breached our government (ph) building. They had to be pushed back, where officers were at risk, detainees we arrested were at risk. Officers have been injured. Property has been destroyed.
So, yes, if the Democratic leadership wasn't taking action, President Trump stepped up and took the action. I've been on the ground. I've seen the worst of the worst out there. So, I'm glad President Trump reacted to save lives and property.
COLLINS: Yes, I was just in L.A., on Friday as well.
But on this front, and what the President's plans are in the administration, overall, have you been personally involved in conversations about invoking the Insurrection Act? HOMAN: No, again, I'm here running a Title 8 immigration operation. I was -- I'm not involved in the discussions. But I do know, every day, a conversation happens with the leadership of DOJ, DHS and DOD, on a decision going forward. I think the decisions on deployment of National Guard, and any other deployment of DOD, is a decision being made by the White House, along with the Department of Justice, and DOD. I know those calls are happening every day.
COLLINS: But you haven't personally been involved in conversations about invoking the Insurrection Act. Is that what you're saying?
HOMAN: I have not.
COLLINS: OK. And speaking of the deployment so far, the National Guard, we've seen about 300 members arrive there. So far, 2,000 activated. So far, also, roughly, 700 Marines have been mobilized to respond in Los Angeles. How will the administration decide if using those Marines is necessary here?
HOMAN: Well, I think, look, their number one goal, the non- reinforcement (ph) is very small, moving to having more (ph) immigration officers. But there's two different lanes of effort here.
Number one, we got ICE officers, along with other Department of Justice agencies, FBI, DEA, U.S. Marshals, that are out there doing immigration operations. And we're doing them today. We're going to do them tomorrow. We're going to do them every day we're here.
At the same time, you get these protests that are getting out of hand, where protesters become criminals and public safety threats. So, we got the National Guard, who, in the military, their job is protection of property, and protection of our agents, and their lives, and their wellbeing, along with the public's wellbeing. But when these protests get out of hand, that's when the local authorities step in, and their job is to maintain public safety and public peace.
Again, last night, LAPD did a pretty good job out there, trying to call some of this violence down. So, there's two different things going on here.
COLLINS: So--
HOMAN: I'm involved with Title 8 operation, so, I'm doing here.
COLLINS: Based on you saying the LAPD is doing their job last night, do you think that Marines would be necessary?
HOMAN: It depends. I mean, last night was pretty out of control, you know, and LAPD was out there in force. But we got to remember, look, we got an option -- or an option, mind you -- you have a lot of government property, whether it's vehicle tires being slashed, or windshield being smashed, or the government buildings being damaged, we might answer this, where one protester threw a Molotov cocktail at an officer.
I mean, this is getting to be a significant public safety issue here. So President Trump's thinking ahead of the game. He's leaning forward. He's going to send those resources we need to protect property and life.
Now, again, the military's role is protect government property, and protect our officers. But, again, local law enforcement needs to step up and control public safety, I mean. And President Trump deployed these people because the State of California, the Mayor of San Diego -- excuse me, the Mayor of Los Angeles and the Governor weren't simply be acting faster.
So, again, being on the ground here, being involved in, in watching what happened on Friday and the Saturday night--
COLLINS: Yes.
HOMAN: --I'm grateful, he's sending this.
COLLINS: Well, and they're arguing that LAPD and the local law enforcement was handling it just fine, and that the National Guard was not required.
But I just want to follow up on the Marines, because obviously that is a headline that people see that, and it might alarm some people to see that hundreds of Marines have been activated to potentially be deployed. You're commending with LAPD. Do you believe Marines could be necessary?
HOMAN: Yes, and it all depends on the activities of these protesters. I mean, they make the decisions.
[21:50:00]
I keep pulling media reports that, They're rioting because President Trump sent National Guard here. It's just ridiculous. They make the decision to burn a vehicle. They make the decision to throw a weapon at an law enforcement officer. They make the decision on assaulting officers. This is their decision. President Trump doesn't make them burning vehicle or assaulting an officer.
President Trump is leaning forward, give us the resources to be here, to be ready to take on a worst night. We don't know what's going to happen tonight. It seems like at night, the crowds get bigger, the violence peaks. So we want to be ahead of the game. We want to be well-prepared, there's a military here--
COLLINS: OK.
HOMAN: --to protect government property, and protect officers' lives.
COLLINS: So you're saying that they may be necessary.
I just want to follow up on what you just said, though a few seconds ago. You're saying these operations, the ICE operations in the Los Angeles area, are continuing right now.
HOMAN: Yes, absolutely. We got -- we got over a 100 teams out there, doing Title 8 operations.
COLLINS: OK. And those will continue over the next several days, I imagine, is what you're arguing?
HOMAN: They'll continue every day, not only in California, Los Angeles. They're going to continue in every city across the country. We have teams throughout the country that are out there, watching for those in the country. We're in control -- again, we're prioritizing public safety threats, and watching security threats.
We're looking for people who've had due process, had order of removal from a judge and didn't leave. So, we're out there. We're in every city in the country, and ICE is going to be out every single day, and we'll continue to be out there, regardless of what's happening in L.A. They're not going to stop us from completing our mission. We're going to force the laws in this country.
COLLINS: On California, specifically, the President told reporters earlier that if he were you, he would have the Governor of California arrested. Can you just clarify where that stands, and if that is something that you personally are advocating for.
HOMAN: No, like I -- I think, remember, yesterday, with NBC reporting, who was the -- here, the conversation was, as you and I talked about many times, you can -- you can protest if you want. You have that First Amendment right.
But when you cross the line of putting your hands on an ICE officer, impeding our enforcement operations, knowingly harboring and concealing illegal alien, that's a crime. And I said, last night, they can protest all they want. When they cross that line, we'll seek prosecution.
And last count, we have just about 50 protesters, who've been arrested, criminally being prosecuted for violating the law. And when they probably -- ask me, Would that include politicians like Mayor Bass or Governor Newsom, I say, of course. If it was -- anybody out commits a crime, ICE is going to be--
COLLINS: But Governor Newsom has not done anything to warrant an arrest, in your view, right now, correct?
HOMAN: Not at this time, absolutely not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And our thanks to Tom Homan, speaking with him. Obviously, we're covering the live breaking developments. You're looking at live pictures, right now, what we are seeing happening in Los Angeles, as these protests have continued.
Elliot Williams and Priscilla Alvarez are here with me.
And Priscilla, as you were listening to Tom Homan, and what they were -- what they were saying about what the rationale is for what they're doing. They're obviously watching what we're watching, right now, just as closely. What have you been hearing from sources?
Voice of PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, tonight, senior Trump officials are saying publicly what I have been told they're talking about privately, which is they plan to double down on their efforts, their immigration and customs enforcement operations, in the City of Los Angeles, today, tonight, and in the days to come.
This began, Kaitlan, with a previously-planned ongoing operation, which included some worksite operations, in Los Angeles, until they escalated to now also include protests, who were protesting the immigration enforcement, by the administration.
And Kaitlan, in my reporting that started -- as this was all beginning, late last week, I was told by sources that there was a moment in time, where they had discussed pausing the operations, because they could sense that it was getting so heated.
COLLINS: Priscilla, you and I've been talking about this happening in other places as well, in protests we're seeing. We're watching in Dallas, right now. I want to show that arrests are happening right there.
Voice of ALVAREZ: Yes.
COLLINS: This is not just -- this is not Los Angeles. This is not what we've been talking about, since Friday night. This is what's happening in Dallas.
Voice of ALVAREZ: This is exactly why some of the conversations they're having, inside the administration that I'm hearing about, are, they are not going to back down from Los Angeles, because they almost want to make an example of Los Angeles.
And the conversations that were happening in the Situation Room, with Homeland Security officials, Pentagon officials, over the course of the day, that was the resounding message from a top aide of President Trump, Stephen Miller, which is, We are not going to back down from Los Angeles.
And while this may not be Los Angeles, this -- the example that they're trying to show is that they are not going to back down from any of these cases. In fact, Homeland Security Secretary, tonight on Fox, saying they're going to arrest and charge protesters who are assaulting officers.
So, this is happening in real-time, and it is the clash also, Kaitlan, of immigration and law and order, two of the main issues of President Trump, all coalescing in this moment, as people--
COLLINS: Yes.
Voice of ALVAREZ: --protest the methods of this administration.
COLLINS: And I also want to show what's happening in Austin. This is what's happening in Dallas. We also have similar scenes that are playing out -- protests that are underway in Austin right now. [21:55:00]
Elliot, when you look at what happened -- what's happening in Dallas there. I want to go back to that image that we were just showing. Obviously, things seemed to be heating up there, as you're looking--
Voice of ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
COLLINS: --at this scene right now in Dallas, where they are clashing with the officers. A lot of people are looking at this.
And what I asked to Tom Homan was, Is this going to be the new normal, going forward, in terms of more National Guard being deployed to other cities as well?
Voice of WILLIAMS: Well, and it all depends, quite frankly, Kaitlan, on what happens with the legal challenges to this implementation of the National Guard.
Now, look, there are circumstances where the President can federalize National Guard. Now there, obviously, if there's a rebellion against the United States, or an invasion from a foreign country. They've been a little looser about the standard they followed here. And if in fact, these legal challenges are successful, this may not become a new normal.
COLLINS: Yes. Elliot Williams. Priscilla Alvarez. Great to have you both here.
Thank you so much for joining us on this breaking news. Stay with CNN. We're going to continue following this.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up, after a quick break.
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