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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
LAPD Chief: Role Of U.S. Military Still "Unclear"; Soon: Curfew Takes Effect In Downtown L.A. For Second Night; Sources: Musk Called Trump Monday As Feud Thaws. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 11, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: --he does not want that to be part of this bill. And, of course, that has what has caused Donald Trump, and his aides, like Stephen Miller, to criticize Paul, so sharply, over the last several days and weeks. But he is indicating, John, that despite this move, which he calls vindictive and petty, he said he's not changing his position. He does not believe this pressure campaign ultimately will work.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Had a lot to say to you there, Manu.
Manu Raju, thank you very much.
RAJU: Thanks.
BERMAN: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern and 06:00 Pacific, we're seeing more protests across the country, against the Trump administration's immigration actions. That includes in New York tonight, San Antonio, Los Angeles, and Raleigh, with more planned for the coming days, including this Saturday, when organizers say some 1,800 protests are planned on the same day, that President Trump will hold his military parade here in Washington.
Things are already getting tense, on the streets of New York tonight, as you can see here. The police department has already arrested some protesters in Lower Manhattan.
And for the sixth straight day, on the other side of the country, protesters are out again, in part of Downtown Los Angeles. We're just a couple hours away, right now, from night two of that mandatory curfew that has been in effect for part of Downtown. It's an area that covers about one square mile, out of 500 square miles. The District Attorney, in Los Angeles today, highlighted the arrest of five people accused of taking part in violence and vandalism. As all of this is happening, we are told that ICE operations have continued in and around the city.
I want to start this evening with CNN's Nick Watt, who is live in Downtown L.A. tonight.
Nick, we've obviously been watching closely to what's happening behind you. How have things changed, and what does it look like right now?
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, we have a Homeland Security convoy coming into the detention center. That has been the flash point all day. So you've got Customs and Border Protection, pushing the protest crowd back, to allow these vehicles in.
Now, basically, local officials have said, you can hurl insults at these convoys, but you cannot hurl anything physical. If you do, you will be arrested. So, there has been a sort of uneasy standoff here, all afternoon.
We've had -- we've had some music, some dance circles, a little bit of aggro, but the temperature has been a lot lower, Kaitlan, than it was yesterday.
Now, we are two hours away from curfew. What we saw last night at curfew, at 8 o'clock, the LAPD started moving in very slowly, and they did arrest a couple of hundred people. It's unclear what is going to happen, later here tonight, because this crowd is growing, and doesn't necessarily look like it's going to be going anywhere.
We're now having a couple of government vehicles over here, with protesters around them, as they try and leave the area.
It was very chill at lunchtime. The temperature has risen.
Now you see Customs and Border Protection pulling back to behind the line, back onto federal property. This is what they're here for. They're here to protect federal property and federal personnel.
So, if anybody is going to be arrested, it will be the LAPD, or the County Sheriff, really out here, that is marshaling out here. And that's what we saw last night. LAPD was in control. We saw the National Guard actually move back into the Federal Building that they've been protecting. After the curfew was announced, it was the LAPD, on the streets, 700-plus officers, on the streets, keeping calm, and then after the curfew kicked in, Kaitlan, making arrests.
COLLINS: Yes. All right. Nick Watt, we'll continue to check in with you, as we are seeing those convoys go into the detention center there, on the ground in Los Angeles.
I also want to check in with CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who is live at a protest, happening in New York City tonight. Shimon, tell us what you've been seeing.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, this all started, much like it did last night, in Foley Square. Couple of hundred protesters had gathered there, and then they started to march.
And what we're seeing is a very, very different response tonight, from the NYPD, much more aggressive, in that if any of the protesters are now going in the street, they are giving them basically one simple warning. And if they don't get out of the street, they start to arrest them.
We saw several arrests, just about an hour ago. And now, essentially everyone is just standing around, Kaitlan. I can show you here. Probably about a 100 or so, maybe some more protesters here.
This area is very significant. We are outside the Federal Building, here in Lower Manhattan, at 26 Federal Plaza. This is where the ICE offices are. And this is where for the last several nights, protesters have been gathering. And there's been a lot of flashpoints here, between the protesters and the NYPD.
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And tonight, the NYPD, after last night, with the thousands of protesters that were out, and some 80 arrests that were made, today, the NYPD has decided they're going to take a more aggressive posture. And we certainly have seen that.
They brought these barricades in. They're keeping them on the sidewalk. And as long as they stay on the sidewalk, for now, despite the fact that some in the group have been trying to bait the police, the police are allowing them to stay there. And we'll see, as the night goes, what happens.
But this is the area where there's been a lot of problems, between the NYPD and the protesters. But for now, since about 8 o'clock, things have been pretty much calm, and there hasn't been a lot of interaction between the protesters and the NYPD.
COLLINS: Yes, noticing those barricades is in addition to what we saw last night.
Shimon, keep us updated. Let us know if you see anything, or as it's picking up there.
Also joining me right now is the Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, Jim McDonnell.
And Chief, it's great to have you here.
CHIEF JIM MCDONNELL, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you.
COLLINS: I know you have been incredibly busy, and you've basically been working non-stop over the last few days. What can you tell us about how things look in Los Angeles tonight, compared to what it's been like the last several nights?
MCDONNELL: Well, thank you, Kaitlan. Thank you for having me on.
Today has been a better day, calmer, I think, for a number of reasons. We've been able to amass enough resources from mutual aid partners, over the last couple of days, to be able to make arrests and hold people accountable for their behavior.
We're out there. Our role is to protect everybody's First Amendment rights. And a lot of people have come out and respected that, and expressed their feelings in a peaceful way.
But once nightfall comes in particular, we start to see others come out, who are intent on violence and intent on disruption in a different way. So, for those people, our message is that we're watching very closely, and you will be arrested if you violate the law.
COLLINS: Can you clarify something for us? That we keep hearing conflicting things.
MCDONNELL: Sure.
COLLINS: What do you know about what role the U.S. Military is playing in L.A. right now?
MCDONNELL: Yes, the Military or the Army, and now joined by the Marines, 700 Marines, their role is different than ours. Their role is to support agents of ICE and other agencies that have been also brought into this effort, the ATF, the FBI, DEA. Their role is to protect federal employees, and federal facilities, and also the federal function. So, their role is separate and apart from ours.
Our role is to keep the peace on the streets of the City of Los Angeles, and facilitate peaceful demonstration.
COLLINS: So, is it your understanding that the National Guard has the ability to detain protesters, even temporarily? Or do you think that they do not have that authority?
MCDONNELL: Yes, I think the way that's being done is the Army National Guard is a support force, to protect the agents from the various federal agencies who are doing immigration enforcement. The agents have the ability to detain and arrest individuals, who are violating the law.
COLLINS: So, your understanding is they can arrest people, essentially?
MCDONNELL: The agents certainly can.
COLLINS: The National Guard?
MCDONNELL: And the National Guard is there in support of them doing that.
COLLINS: OK. Because--
MCDONNELL: Yes, that's unclear to us exactly what the -- good.
COLLINS: Yes, go ahead.
MCDONNELL: Yes, no, the role is still not clear to us, the Marines or the National Guard, other than they're a support entity to protect federal employees and facilities. But the agents, they're protecting, do have certainly the right to be able to arrest law-breakers.
COLLINS: It's kind of stunning to hear the Police Chief say that it's unclear what the role is, of the National Guard and of the Marines. I mean, if someone's watching, I think they would think, if anyone should know, it should be you. Why do you think you don't know what they are doing--
MCDONNELL: Yes.
COLLINS: --and what they are supposed to be doing.
MCDONNELL: Well, this is -- yes, this is -- yes, this is unprecedented. I feel comfortable in knowing what their stated purpose is. Their mission, as I said, to protect federal employees and facilities.
But as far as their -- the scope of their responsibilities or their abilities, relative to arrest or dealing in a municipal environment, that's not something that they do every day, certainly. What their training is, we're not sure of that, either on the Army or the Marines, as it relates to crowd management, crowd control, in an urban environment. So, a lot of questions that we'll still be asking.
But our role is very clear to us, is to keep the peace, and to allow people who are protesting peacefully to do so.
COLLINS: Is there a clear line of communication between the LAPD and the Pentagon about this?
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MCDONNELL: Not with the Pentagon, but with the -- there's a general who has been assigned here, General Sherman. We have had our folks in conversations that he's been involved in, in calls. I still want to be able to clarify things further, and be able to get a greater comfort level as to what their roles and responsibilities are, and if there is an evolution of that, what that might look like.
COLLINS: OK. So you do need -- you're asking for more clarity, basically, right now?
MCDONNELL: Exactly, yes, yes.
COLLINS: I want to play you something that the President had to say.
There's been a question, over bypassing the Governor, to bring in the National Guard. That's a whole lawsuit that we're going to ask the Attorney General about later.
But something that the President said about you, sir, and what you have said about this situation, I'd like for you to listen to that right now.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If we weren't there, if we didn't bring in the National Guard and the Marines, you would probably have a city that was burning to the ground, just like it was a number of months ago with the housing. You would have had a big problem there.
If we weren't... in fact, the police chief said so much, if you look at what his statements were. He said, we're very lucky to have had them. If we weren't there, that city would've been burning to the ground. Would be burning right now.
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COLLINS: Is that how you would characterize your statement, sir?
MCDONNELL: No, we were not in a position to request the National Guard. We have a protocol that we work up through.
First, we bring in all internal resources to bear on the issue, whatever it is. Then we mobilize the department, or part of the department, to be able to get everybody out there, dealing with the issue.
If we don't have the capacity, at that point, to be able to do that, then through the Sheriff, we request mutual aid, and we get our law enforcement partners from police departments and Sheriff's Department throughout the southern California region, to assist us in doing what it is we need to do. We're at that level now, and we're nowhere near a level where we would be reaching out to the Governor, for National Guard, at this stage.
And my hope is that things are going in the right direction now, and that we wouldn't have had to have done that, or we won't, either.
COLLINS: That's notable, to hear you say that you're actually nowhere near that stage, in terms of what this looks like.
Chief, if you'll bear with me, I have my colleague John Miller here. And obviously, he is well-steeped in all things LAPD and also NYPD.
I'd like for him -- John, I think you have a question for the Chief. I'd love to hear what you'd like to ask him.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, thanks.
And Chief, what I was wondering is, we're looking at the traffic that's coming over the channels that protest organizers, demonstrators, anarchists, are using, and we're seeing many different things. But there's a core set of messages about--
MCDONNELL: Right.
MILLER: --wearing black bloc attire, wearing non-descript clothing without logos, hiding your hair, using walkie-talkies, coming with leaf blowers to redirect tear gas in the other direction.
MCDONNELL: Right.
MILLER: The question is, what is the change in characteristics between these protests we see in the daytime with chanting, and then, as it gets later, when the throwing, the fireworks, it all starts.
MCDONNELL: Yes.
MILLER: Can you quantify what is the anarchist factor versus the organic protest factor here?
MCDONNELL: Yes. And I think, John, you hit it on the head that for most of the day, in the organized protests, it's people who are out there expressing their feelings, peacefully, generally speaking.
Once nightfall comes, we start to see a different group of people. And among those people are people I would describe as black bloc type protesters, anarchists, if you will. And they come prepared.
And they are very sophisticated. They do have radio communications. They do move around. They do monitor police channels. And they'll create distractions in order to draw us away from a scene we're about to make arrests, so where we have no choice but to go somewhere else.
They have weapons of all kinds. We arrested a number of people, last night, for curfew violations. I think 14, and three out of the 14 were armed with weapons, handguns. And so, when you look at that, what appears to be one thing is something very different.
We've seen in those backpacks that they'll have hammers, they'll break up kerb stones and concrete bollards, break up into smaller pieces, which they'll then throw at police. They put them in backpacks, and walk around like that. I've seen somebody today walking around with golf balls in a backpack. So, all sorts of weapons, all very potentially dangerous.
We've seen commercial grade fireworks being fired at our people, with shrapnel being put in, from what I'm told, into some of these packages. Again, that is -- that is pretty scary stuff when you look at it. Liquid being thrown on our officers. The attitude of our officers and the professionalism and restraint that they've shown is remarkable. They've done a tremendous job out there, and I'm very proud of them.
MILLER: The District Attorney stepped forward with some charges today, against people, for those kinds of things. Are you satisfied with what you're seeing on the prosecutorial end?
MCDONNELL: Right. [21:15:00]
MILLER: I know, under the former District Attorney, that didn't always happen.
MCDONNELL: Right, exactly. No, it's a -- it's a different approach, completely. We work very closely with District Attorney, Nathan Hochman. He does give, I think, due consideration to the severity of the crime, and wants to hold people accountable.
The U.S. Attorney, as well, filed charges, this morning, on some folks for possession and throwing, I believe, of Molotov cocktails. We've seen that now more than we usually see in these types of demonstrations, protests, and in further.
So, it's dicey for our officers out there. But again, we're going to stay the course and ensure that Los Angeles is the safe city that the residents deserve it to be.
COLLINS: Chief, it's great to have you, and I know you're incredibly busy. Thank you for joining us.
MCDONNELL: Thank you.
COLLINS: And I hope you'll come back soon. And thanks for giving us the time tonight.
MCDONNELL: Absolutely. Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And my sources here tonight are--
MCDONNELL: Good to see you, John.
COLLINS: Great to have you.
--are John Miller.
And also, the former Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.
Retired Major General, Randy Manner, who was the acting Vice Chief of the National Guard Bureau.
Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Elie Honig as well.
And of course, John is sticking with us.
Just in terms of what we're seeing here, General, and what you heard from the Police Chief there. I thought it was quite notable how he was describing the situation, and also saying they don't really have a clear line of communication with the Pentagon, about what the National Guard, what their clear responsibilities are supposed to be.
MAJ. GEN. RANDY MANNER (RET.), FORMER ACTING VICE CHIEF, NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU: It's very disappointing that he's been able to express it in this way. Because, I'm sure that is reflecting reality. It's one of those things where, just to clarify, the National Guard and their status does not have the ability, whatsoever, to arrest anyone. They are in a Title 10 status. That is, by law, they are under Posse Comitatus. They're not permitted to arrest anyone. That's number one.
And number two. This is something where it is a total exaggeration of the amount of force that should be used here. The Police Chief and the LAPD is doing such a wonderful job of showing constraint, and also using the resources they have available to them.
This is a law enforcement operation. It is not a military operation. The concept of using Marines to bring in, who -- Marines are excellent at doing one thing. They are excellent at attacking an objective, destroying the objective, overcoming it, and moving on. They are not trained at all, not one bit, in American civil disturbance training, not at all.
So, this is an inappropriate use of force. It is an overuse of force. I love how the Police Chief said, We would not even be asking for the normal California Guard, under normal circumstances, at this point, so.
COLLINS: I mean, Andrew McCabe, a lot of this has to do with what the President was saying today, that he feels like he learned his lesson, from when he never called in the National Guard, his first term. He felt like he couldn't bypass governors, to now feeling like he can do that. But, I mean, to hear the Police Chief say, We were nowhere near needing the National Guard, is quite striking.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: It really is.
And his comments are completely consistent with what we're seeing in our coverage. Right? The conditions on the ground are exactly as he's represented them. You've got 20,000 sworn officers, between the LAPD and the L.A. County Sheriffs. And then you've got, as he mentioned several times, mutual aid agreements with numerous police organizations across the southern California region.
That is the standard pool of trained, experienced law enforcement officers that you draw from, to handle a massive crowd or protest of this nature. That's what they're doing. They're doing it competently and professionally.
And I should say, we've been focusing a lot on the respect that they are exhibiting, for those peaceful protesters during the day, creating spaces for them to be able to exercise their First Amendment rights. That is absolutely essential. But it's just one side of the coin.
The other side of the coin--
COLLINS: Yes.
MCCABE: --is enforcement of -- directed at people engaged in criminal activity, and that's what happens when the sun goes down. COLLINS: Yes, it was notable to hear him draw that distinction there.
And Elie, in terms of this conversation, about what the military can and cannot do. There was an added layer of confusion to this, by Pentagon, that was sent from the Department of Homeland Security to the Pentagon over the weekend.
We asked the White House, about that today. I want you to listen to what they had to say.
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COLLINS: Over the weekend, Secretary Noem sent a memo to the Pentagon, asking Secretary Hegseth, to have and direct the military that's on the ground, in L.A., to arrest and detain, what she said were, law- breakers.
Is the President OK with that? And under what authority would the members of the military be able to arrest people inside the United States?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can't speak for a letter that came from the Department of Homeland Security. I can't speak for the President, and what's currently happening on the ground now.
And, as you know, the President federalized the National Guard, under U.S. Code 10, which he has the authority to do. And our United States Marines and the National Guardsmen and women who are on the ground, right now, are helping to create a peaceful environment, for ICE and Border Patrol, who were being, again, hailed with rocks, who were being violently and viciously attacked.
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They needed reinforcements. And so, our United States Marines, who are on the ground, are providing those reinforcements, to ensure the environment is peaceful, so that these raids and deportations can continue.
COLLINS: But he realizes they can't actually arrest people, unless he invokes the Insurrection Act, which, I mean, seemingly, was not something that was in Secretary Noem's memo, a clear distinction she did not make there.
LEAVITT: Again, you're trying to conflate a letter that was sent to the Department of Homeland Security, to the President's legal authority. The President understands the legal authority that he invoked, and that's the current situation right now.
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COLLINS: I think the question is, does that mean the President understands it, but the Homeland Security Secretary does not?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Right, well, it sounded, first of all, like an admission at the end there, that there was such a letter. I don't know what kind of chain of command this is, where DHS is telling the military what to do.
As you pointed out in your question there, to Karoline Leavitt, it would absolutely violate the law, to have the military make hands-on arrests. And the Police Chief from L.A., who you just interviewed, clearly understands and appreciates that distinction. He said, The military, although it was somewhat unclear what they're doing there -- which is a big problem -- but he said, they are there in a support role only.
The other thing that I think is really important, to Andy's point. The Chief just said, We're nowhere near where we would need the national security.
There's a hearing tomorrow, 1:30 in the afternoon, on the legality of the President deploying the National Guard. Watch for the state, for California, to cite that. They're going to say, This isn't necessary to quell a rebellion or to enforce federal laws. Now, I still think it's an uphill argument for the state because, ultimately, the President has a lot of discretion under the law. But it wouldn't surprise me to hear them cite just that.
COLLINS: But John Miller, to hear the Police Chief saying there, that they do not have a full understanding of why there are 700 Marines there, or just how many members of the National Guard, and also to hear what the General said here. I mean, what does that say to you about how they -- how they go about doing their jobs?
MILLER: Well, it's interesting. We got a real window into this, from a sparsely-attended press conference, by Major General Scott Sherman of Northern Command, who's in charge of Task Force 51.
He said, he's carrying out the orders of the President and the Secretary of Defense. And he said that the federal presence there, 4,700, so 2,000 National Guard, 2,000 more National Guard, 700 Marines, same mission for both, is to protect federal property and federal personnel, but notwithstanding, also going out with federal personnel on field operations.
And when pressed on it, he said that they could -- that they did not have the power to do law enforcement action. They were not there to make an arrest. But that they could detain people, and wait for law enforcement to make those arrests.
When you're detained, you're pretty much arrested.
COLLINS: Yes.
MILLER: So, I understand why Jimmy McDonnell is confused. There's a lot of questions here about, what is their use of deadly force, since they're armed? What is their authority to detain people? Where are we going here?
COLLINS: Yes. And it was great to hear him clear that up, and also be just very candid about their view of the situation.
John Miller, thank you for helping out there.
To all of our experts here, it's great to have you all.
We are continuing to look at pictures of Downtown Los Angeles. A curfew is set to start very soon there. We'll see what happens, and if it's a repeat of what we saw last night. This comes as the Trump administration is digging into and defending its use of the military.
We're going to speak to the California Attorney General, right after this.
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COLLINS: You're looking at a live scene, out of Los Angeles tonight, where we can see a crowd of protesters, growing, in front of the City Hall building there, after moving their way through traffic in Downtown Los Angeles.
This comes as, in just hours, a high-stakes hearing is going to be underway, regarding California's lawsuit, challenging President Trump's deployment of 4,000 National Guard troops there, that he federalized, meaning, he bypassed the Governor, in order to do so.
I want to bring in the Attorney General of California, Rob Bonta.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
As we're looking at this, and amid this confusion over whether or not the National Guard, on the ground, in Los Angeles, can detain people, do you believe that they have that authority tonight?
ROB BONTA, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CALIFORNIA: I do not.
I believe that Trump has tried to grab power that he does not have, that does not belong to him, and he has unlawfully deployed the National Guard to Los Angeles, and they shouldn't be there at all. Because there's no authority for him to have brought them to Los Angeles. That the Governor of California is the Commander-in-Chief for the California National Guard, and he should be issuing the orders, not the President.
We've made that case in the complaint that we filed on Monday, that restraining order request that we brought yesterday, and we'll further advance that argument, in front of the court, tomorrow, at our hearing.
But the order that the Trump administration issued, deploying the National Guard to Los Angeles, is invalid and unlawful. And so, they don't--
COLLINS: Yes.
BONTA: --even have the authority to be there, much less detain anybody.
COLLINS: And I want to ask you about that authority. But I'm not sure if you just heard my interview with the Chief of the LAPD. He said that it is not clear to them what the authority is. And he also said that that he believes that they were nowhere close near -- meeting the National Guard, on the ground, in Los Angeles.
Is that an argument that you plan to cite, when you are in court, tomorrow?
BONTA: Absolutely. I mean, the statute upon which the Trump administration relies, for deploying the National Guard to Los Angeles, has certain requirements.
It requires the presence of an invasion. There's no invasion.
[21:30:00]
It requires the presence of a rebellion. There's no rebellion.
It requires the inability of the federal government to execute the federal laws. That is not present either.
It also requires the governor to consent or cooperate with the order, and he has strenuously objected to it.
So, the elements of the law that they rely on are not present, so they don't have the authority to deploy the National Guard.
And I've talked to the L.A. Police Chief. I've talked to the L.A. Sheriff. They have both told me, very clearly, that before the National Guard arrived, they were able to address all issues, with their own resources, and meet the moment. And there is a mutual aid protocol that they could rely on, that they didn't even have to tap into it, then.
When the National Guard arrived, on Sunday morning, they arrived to quiet streets. There was no emergency, definitely not on the verge of burning, like Mr. Trump has wrongfully and falsely stated.
COLLINS: Yes.
BONTA: And you have to deplete (ph) all of the mutual aid resources before you even get to the National Guard. And then, like, if you get to the National Guard, the governor will decide. Not the president.
COLLINS: So, what you're saying is that they have not -- that the President, you don't believe the White House has met the threshold of, in this situation, where they could bypass the Governor and deploy the National Guard.
Do you believe, though, that the President does have the ultimate authority, in terms of this, like, if there's a disagreement between the governor and the president, that the president can ultimately overrule the governor there, to deploy the National Guard, not just in this situation, but in any situation? BONTA: No. These are joint operations. The National Guard. It's the California National Guard. Generally, the Commander-in-Chief is the governor of the state here, the Governor of California, unless and until there's a statutory trigger, which allows for the President to be the Commander-in-Chief, and the elements of the statute need to be present. And one element is an invasion or a rebellion or the inability to execute federal laws. Those elements are not there. So, the governor remains in charge, not the president.
And with respect to the Marines, they are not under any command by the governor, but they are subject to the Posse Comitatus Act. And we have strong prohibitions against the military, engaging in civilian law enforcement. So, they cannot engage in any civilian law enforcement in the neighborhoods--
COLLINS: Yes.
BONTA: --or communities of Los Angeles. And we're asking the court to restrict them to only proper functions.
COLLINS: Are you or any of the senior officials in California aware of what the rules of engagement are, for the National Guard, and for the Marines, who are on the ground, in your state, right now?
BONTA: I don't think anybody is, and that's a major problem, and a huge red flag. I think you just heard the Police Chief say that he's at an information deficit, and would love to know more about what the protocols are, how the de-confliction is going to work, between the military forces and the civilian law enforcement agencies, how certain exigencies are going to be addressed.
What happens if, God forbid, there's an officer-involved shooting? Who's going to do the investigation? That should be known. And it requires communication, and candor, and transparency, between the National Guard and the Marines, on the one hand, and law enforcement on the other.
And I know, local law enforcement have been asking these questions, because they care deeply about it. But I'm not sure they have been satisfied with all the answers.
COLLINS: Attorney General Rob Bonta, thank you for your time tonight. And we'll see you after what happens in court tomorrow, and follow up on that. Thanks so much.
BONTA: Thanks for having me, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. The Governor of California is seizing this moment, in part, energizing Democrats, by taking on Donald Trump, as you heard in that remarkable speech, last night. We're going to get our political angle on this, next.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Back now with our breaking news, as we are watching protests play out across the country tonight, not just in Los Angeles, but also we're seeing things heat up in New York, where we find CNN's Shimon Prokupecz.
Shimon, we just checked in with you a few minutes ago. Already, it seems to be growing a little bit behind you. What can you tell us about what you're seeing?
PROKUPECZ: Yes, there was -- there were some -- Kaitlan, there were some confrontations between the protesters and the police that have now moved them over here.
What happened was, as I show you the activity here, a white van that usually, it's a prisoner van, that usually transports people, from the Federal Building, came out. And this is something that the protesters have been targeting, these white vans. And a number of them started running, after the van, and then the police moved in to stop them.
And then what we saw was just a remarkable moment, where there was a standoff between the police and the protesters. And then, the white shirts that you see behind me came in, to deescalate, and told the officers to move back. And so, the officers came back, and they're trying to now deescalate the situation.
But as you can see, many of the protesters are still here, yelling at the police. But for now, the police are standing back. And we'll see how this unfolds here.
COLLINS: All right, Shimon, keep us updated on what you're seeing there, as we are keeping a very close eye on this. We'll check back with Shimon, throughout the hour.
Here in Washington, the White House has been responding to what you heard, last night, from California governor, Gavin Newsom, that blistering speech that ranged not just from what is happening, and how the President is handling the protests in L.A., but also, really, to his entire presidency.
[21:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: I know Gavin Newsom had a big address to the nation, last night. I guess he thought that's what it was for maybe his future political ambitions. But he spoke a lot of words. We haven't seen action. California has been a mess, for years, because of the incompetence of Gavin Newsom. So the President was responding to that only.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here.
Mitch Landrieu is the former Mayor of New Orleans, and former senior adviser to President Biden. And Bryan Lanza is a former Trump campaign adviser.
And it's remarkable to see how Democrats have struggled to kind of respond to Trump, since he took office. Do you think this is a blueprint that we're seeing from Governor Newsom?
MITCH LANDRIEU, FORMER NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: Well, I think he's speaking his heart, and he's speaking his experience of what he knows.
When I was Mayor of the City of New Orleans, and Lieutenant Governor, we had need for the National Guard to come in, from time to time. But it was to help. It wasn't to divide.
One of the things that President Trump did, that I think is particularly dangerous, is called in the Marines to do something that local police departments ought to do. When Shimon was in New York, just now, you heard him say, When the white shirts came in. Those are the guys that actually lead the department. He asked his police officers to step back, not to step forward. That's training that teaches you how to deescalate, not to escalate.
There's nobody in American law enforcement, right now, that knows what they're doing, that would say that there's an insurrection going on in the country. They are protests. We have them all the time.
New York has 50,000 police officers that are well-trained in this. Our wonderful men and women that serve in the Marines have not been trained to do that. And it's a very dangerous escalation and an abuse of presidential power. And I think that's what Governor Newsom was speaking to.
COLLINS: Yes, Bryan, how do you see it?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: You're right, Mitch, we do have protests all the time. But what we're seeing more and more lately is these protests get more and more violent, and they get more destructive for property.
What we've learned from 2020, during the Floyd -- during the Floyd protests, was that if you don't have maximum pressure, maximum force, early, this thing can spread. You can end up with Seattle. You can end up with Minneapolis. And those things are bad, because that incentivizes other communities to rise up and sort of act upon this anger that's always been there.
And so, what you need at the very beginning -- I'm from Los Angeles. I know exactly where this is taking place. I've ridden my bike. I've walked there. And being from L.A., you know that the community itself has been underrepresented for a long time, and it's always looking for an issue to rise up. We saw it in the '92 riots, where it started in one part of Downtown Los Angeles, and it spread to all of Southern California, the 50-mile radius.
So, you have to be aggressive in California, and you have to send the message to the rest of the nation, that we're not going to relive 2020. And 2020 was a disgrace to the judicial system. It was a great -- disgrace to law enforcement. And it was a disgrace to leadership on blue state governors and blue state mayors.
LANDRIEU: But Bryan, the way that that happens, and the way that it works well, is when the President of the United States, in partnership with the Governor--
LANZA: Yes.
LANDRIEU: --and in partnership with the Mayor, work together.
LANZA: Of course.
LANDRIEU: You saw, after the fires, the President went there and put his foot on that--
LANZA: But the partnership's not there now.
LANDRIEU: --of the Governor and the Mayor. Well, but it needs to be.
LANZA: Yes.
LANDRIEU: Especially when there are--
(CROSSTALK)
LANZA: But this is why it needs to be. The partnership needs to be, as we -- as we go forward with these deportation policies, which is federal law. And in the states, and the mayors have made a decision to flout federal law, and say, We're going to ignore it. We're not going to cooperate with law enforcement -- with ICE, to do these deportations. So, we don't have the cooperation.
We have the voters who have asked for this. We have a president, who is implementing it. And we have a small minority of blue state governors, blue state mayors that are -- that are flouting the law, and working against what the voters have asked for.
LANDRIEU: You could -- that may that -- listen, putting that issue, just for a second. The President does not have the authority to vitiate Posse Comitatus, without declaring that there's an insurrection in the country. And that is exactly what he does. That is a -- that is a Rubicon--
LANZA: No--
LANDRIEU: --that everybody in America will regret, if we don't call that out today.
LANZA: But--
LANDRIEU: If he wants to do it, we have to do it the right way. You have to follow the law. You have to follow due process. And, by the way, you have to protect--
COLLINS: And Bryan--
LANZA: Well, let me -- let me be-- (CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: But can I ask you--
LANDRIEU: You have to protect people's right to protest.
COLLINS: You talked about what all -- started all this, the President's immigration promises and what they're doing.
We are seeing some Republicans, though, come out and say, OK, we thought they were going to focus on prioritizing criminals, known convicts here, to get those out of the country, but now we're seeing them go and do -- a lot of this has become of workplace site raids that are happening. These worksite raids that President Biden did not allow, Trump reinstated.
David Valadao was saying that they should prioritize the removal of known criminals over hard-working people.
Do you think there's a risk in it backfiring?
LANZA: Listen, we were pretty clear in the campaign that we were going to hit them everywhere. Wherever an illegal alien stood, we were going to hit them. We've talked about it happening during schools, we talked about it in church.
This was litigated during the 2024 campaign. Kamala Harris had her own position. Trump had his. And the voters said, We want this path. Especially after four years of open borders. And that's this -- this is the reaction to four years of open borders. The American public wanted this, and they saw President Trump as the only person who can implement this, and he's doing it.
And let's be clear. Some of these -- some of these people that were in the detention center, that the people fought and wanted released, that the people that Gavin Newsom and Mayor Bass are saying, shouldn't have been deported? They're violent criminals. That's what the Democratic Party is fighting for.
LANDRIEU: You don't -- you don't--
LANZA: We absolutely do know that right now.
LANDRIEU: You do not -- you do not have a mayor or a governor that is against deporting violent criminals. And the matter--
LANZA: Clearly do on the national television.
LANDRIEU: And the matter of fact, what you're doing is--
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:45:00]
LANDRIEU: --by diverting all of this attention to taking women and children out, you're actually letting violent criminals go on the streets of America. Cooperation is the thing that matters. The President is abusing his authority by invoking, by putting Marines -- this is the first time in a long time that you have--
LANZA: Operation only works when they're following the law.
COLLINS: All right. Mr. Mayor.
LANDRIEU: But you can't -- but you cannot do it with putting military on the streets of America to suppress and oppress American citizens. That is a -- that is crossing the Rubicon. That is going to be very dangerous to all of us.
COLLINS: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Lanza. We're out of time. Thanks. Great to have both of you here.
Up next. We're going to have new details on what the Pentagon says, 4,000 National Guardsmen are doing in Los Angeles, on the President's orders, as you heard the Mayor mention there. Military veteran, and Democratic congresswoman, Mikie Sherrill, will join me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just moments ago, as we are keeping a live look at what is happening, in Los Angeles tonight, ahead of that curfew going into place, the Los Angeles Police Department has just declared an unlawful assembly outside of City Hall.
[21:50:00]
That's what you're looking at right here. Parts of the city, about a one square mile of Downtown L.A. is preparing to go under that curfew, in just about an hour from now.
Joining us now, as we continue to keep an eye on this situation, is the Democratic congresswoman, Mikie Sherrill. She's a former Navy helicopter pilot, and also former federal prosecutor who also just won New Jersey's Democratic primary for governor, last night.
And so, it's great to have you here.
And I want to talk about your win and what that means. But first off, given your experience, as a Navy helicopter pilot, what is your reaction to not just what we're seeing in Los Angeles tonight, but also how the military is being used there?
REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Yes, it's both my experience, as a Navy helicopter pilot, and as a federal prosecutor, I worked closely with law enforcement. So, as I know these are two very different missions, in law enforcement and public service, in keeping people safe, and then our military service, which is to protect America overseas.
It's very disfavored to put military people, on the ground, in the United States of America. This is a civilian-led democracy. And so, it's generally only done in extreme circumstances, if there is an insurrection, for example, if there is something on the ground that cannot be handled with local law enforcement. So, I'll tell you, it really concerns me, because you're taking highly-trained military people, in a time when the world is a very complicated place, putting them on the ground here, and then suggesting -- Trump is suggesting, he's going to put them all over this country.
Well, what about the concerns we have, all over the world, right now, and as we're trying very much to ensure that we're moving forward in a more thoughtful way? Having these military members on the ground just seems like a real waste of these forces, especially when we have police officers that can keep the public safety.
COLLINS: If you were Governor, and the President federalized the National Guard in your state, without coming to you and asking, or you asking the President, how would you respond?
SHERRILL: Well, I think, speaking up, very clearly, about why this is a danger, why this is an inappropriate use of our military members, how having our military members on the streets.
It's really unclear what they're doing. It sounds as if the Police Department is not in contact with the Pentagon. It's unclear what type of training, if any, these military members have had at crowd control, or protecting people. We don't know what their rules of engagement are. I can tell you that military rules of engagement are very, very different from those of law enforcement.
So, as governor, those are the questions I'd be asking. And I'd also be in court, saying, Look, has he invoked the Insurrection Act? Because we've not heard that he has. And so then, how is he -- what rule is he operating under?
It was really quite incredible to see the Secretary of Defense could not answer that question, and didn't seem to know what the grounds were, for these troops on the ground, troops that he had called for to be put on the ground.
COLLINS: On your win, last night, you won the Democratic primary for the governor's race in New Jersey.
Obviously, we saw a big swing in New Jersey, last November, when it came to the presidential election. President Trump didn't win the state, but it was a big swing from where Biden was in the election prior to that.
What did it tell you, last night, about where Democratic enthusiasm stands, and what we could see happen this fall?
SHERRILL: Well, Kaitlan, I have been hearing, from all over the country, all these kind of narratives about Democratic enthusiasm, or lack of, or where they're headed.
But you just can feel, here in New Jersey, that there is a great deal of engagement and interest on the ground. I have been speaking to thousands of people, and we know exactly what we have to do here. We need to chart a better path -- a better path forward for families, more affordability. People can't afford to stay here. We need to push back against the attacks, from Washington, on rights and freedoms, but also on costs. They're just -- you know, Washington is driving up costs tremendously, here in New Jersey, and we need to push back against that.
But it remained to be seen, I guess, in this election, if what I was feeling on the ground, what I was hearing from people all across the state, was actually going to be borne out at the ballot box. And I will tell you, we had record-setting numbers in New Jersey, of people coming out to vote in the Democratic primary, almost two to one of what we saw voting in the Republican primary.
And then, what's shocking with these record-setting numbers in the presidential year, last year, in the primary, we only had about 550,000 voters. So, to have 800,000 voters come out in this primary was pretty shocking.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what it does mean.
Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, thank you so much for your time tonight.
SHERRILL: Thanks.
COLLINS: And coming up here, we're going to bring you the latest out of Los Angeles, as we are watching that incredibly closely.
[21:55:00]
Also tonight, a notable change at the White House, when it comes to that blow-up between President Trump and Elon Musk, and a phone call that we've just learned about between the two of them. My new reporting, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Here in Washington, there's new reporting on what went down, when Elon Musk called President Trump, on Monday night. That was the first time, the most powerful person, and the wealthiest person, on the planet, made direct contact since that very public blow-up of their relationship that we all saw happen, on Twitter and Truth Social, just last week.
Sources tell me, it was a very brief call. It only lasted a few moments between Trump and Musk. But it came after the Vice President, JD Vance, and the White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, were on the phone with Musk, Friday, trying to broker some kind of peace, which the Vice President confirmed, earlier tonight, to my colleague, Kit Maher.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I've spoken to Elon and the President about trying to ensure that Elon is publicly supporting and privately supporting the President's agenda.
We're obviously grateful for what Elon Musk did, early on in the DOGE process. And I'll let the President speak to what kind of relationship they're going to have in the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It appears those calls worked, to at least get a conversation. Musk deleted his most critical Trump attacks, off social media, including the one, accusing the President of being in the so- called Epstein files. Then he wrote, early this morning, I regret some of my posts about President Trump last week. They went too far.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
