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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Israel Launches "Preemptive Strikes" On Iran; Israel Strikes Iran, Targeting Nuclear Sites; Judge: Trump Illegally Federalized California National Guard. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired June 12, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: --and that's an indication of why you see the directives, from Home Front Command, the closure of Israeli airspace.

Israel knows, of course, that when it puts out a statement, saying there will be multiple waves of attacks, and we're going after some of the most valuable assets--

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.

LIEBERMANN: --the retaliation will be in kind.

COOPER: Oren Liebermann, thank you.

Thanks to everyone who joined us on short notice.

The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: And we do have breaking news, major breaking news, tonight.

Israel has launched what it is calling a preemptive strike on Iran. While we have seen explosions in Iran tonight, we're working, this hour, to determine the scale and the scope of the attack that is unfolding right now, as we come on the air.

The Israeli military confirms tonight that Iran's nuclear program and other military targets are part of these strikes, as sources tell CNN that the operation will happen in waves, that this is not expected to be a one-day mission, that we will see multiple rounds of what is playing out tonight.

Meantime, at the White House, President Trump is going to convene a Cabinet-level meeting, we are told, as soon as tomorrow, as U.S. officials tell CNN, there was no U.S. involvement or assistance in these strikes.

But it does appear that the United States got a heads-up. We just got this statement, from the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio on what's unfolding in Iran tonight.

I want to read it for you in full, where Secretary Rubio said, quote, "Tonight, Israel took unilateral action against Iran. We are not involved in strikes against Iran and our top priority is protecting American forces in the region. Israel" has "advised us that they believe this action was necessary for its self-defense. President Trump and the Administration have taken all necessary steps to protect our forces and remain in close contact with our regional partners." Secretary Rubio goes on to say, quote, "Let me be clear: Iran should not target U.S. interests or personnel."

This comes, as Israel, tonight, has declared a state of emergency there, as officials say they do anticipate a missile and drone attack, a counterresponse from Iran. It's unclear what role if any, the United States would play in defending Israel from an Iranian attack, as the Biden administration did, last October.

Our CNN teams are on the ground from Washington to Jerusalem tonight, as we are covering every angle of this breaking news story.

I want to get right to CNN's Oren Liebermann, who is in Jerusalem.

Oren, obviously, this is something that people have been watching, to see if this is going to happen. The President was just asked about this, earlier today, in Washington. What are you hearing from sources about what the scale and scope of this attack is looking like tonight?

LIEBERMANN: Crucially, Kaitlan, what we're looking at here is not a one-off. This is not a simple one-and-done attack. And we should be expecting waves of attacks, over some period of time, whether that's several hours or several days.

An Israeli source has told us that this will continue. This isn't a single target. An Israeli military official says there were, in fact, dozens of targets, going after Iran's nuclear capabilities and their ballistic missile capabilities.

We have also just learned that this has an operation, calling it Rising Lion, as Israel prepares for the possibility that there will be a series of strikes to try to carry out the intent of this operation, and that is, again, to go after Iran's nuclear facilities and their ballistic missile capabilities.

This, at least from what we're seeing now, is bigger than the strikes, the Israeli strikes, we have seen on Iran in the past, and it's expected to play out over a longer period of time.

When a military official was asked, How long could it take to carry out the goal of this operation? In other words, how long could it take to destroy Iran's nuclear program, or to at least reduce it to a point where Israel is satisfied with the results? That military official said, quote, It could take a long time. We are prepared for that. It was just about less than an hour ago, I believe, that Israel's Defense Minister, Israel Katz, said that Israel had begun carrying out these preemptive strikes. And in doing so, he also said, Israel is in a state of emergency, and that the public here should listen to Home Front Command.

Israel is very much preparing for the possibility of retaliation from Iran. Whether that's imminent or takes a longer period of time, that remains to be seen. But that response may very well be, according to an Israeli military official, larger than what we have seen in the past.

And what we have seen in the past is more than a 100 drones, multiple hundreds of ballistic missiles, in two separate attacks on Israel. This could be more than that. And Israel has prepared for the possibility that it's not only simply greater in scope, in terms of the number of projectiles and missiles launched in Israel, but also that it plays out over a longer period of time. Israel is very much prepared for that possibility.

We've already seen Israel close its airspace. Unclear when that will open again. And we have gotten multiple alerts on our phones and computers about warning the public to listen to orders from Israel's Home Front Command.

[21:05:00]

Israel, frankly, knows the scale of what it started. We were just talking with Brett McGurk. And he said, This is clearly on the far more escalatory side of options that Israel could have carried out when it comes to Iran. And that means the regional war, essentially a regional conflict, that has been a concern here, over the course of the past year and a half, now looks much closer than it has in quite some time, if not, perhaps ever, because of the scope and the scale and, frankly, the targets--

COLLINS: Yes.

LIEBERMANN: --that Israel is striking in Iran.

COLLINS: So, given that, Oren, and given Israeli officials know that if they go after Iran's nuclear program, which they are confirming is part of the targets in these strikes tonight, which Brett McGurk was saying, That ups the ante here of what that counterattack could be.

What have you been hearing about how Israeli officials have been deliberating, about carrying out this attack, and what it was that made them eventually decide, Now is the time to go forward?

LIEBERMANN: So first, crucially, as this was playing out, according to an Israeli official, Israel's National Security Cabinet was meeting and essentially watching this unfold.

In terms of why now, an Israeli official says, they felt that now was the time, diplomatically and militarily, where there was a window to act. That in and of itself, is an incredibly significant statement. Israel and, in particular, Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, have pushed very hard for a military option on Iran. It was Netanyahu, who told President Donald Trump that Iran wasn't really interested in negotiations. They were simply trying to buy time to advance their own nuclear ambitions.

And Israel got to the point, or at least Netanyahu, got to the point where he felt he had to act. And crucially, Israel acting unilaterally. Israel has effectively made that clear. And the U.S., in the statement from Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, has made it very clear that this is an Israeli action.

The U.S. has watched and picked up on Intel that Israel is preparing for a strike and had completed preparations, and now we see essentially the carrying out of that series of strikes.

Now, the timing, of course, coming, as the U.S. was pursuing negotiations--

COLLINS: Yes.

LIEBERMANN: --nuclear negotiations with Tehran. There was a sixth round of talks scheduled -- scheduled for Sunday here. So, hard to see this as anything other than completely derailing those talks.

COLLINS: Yes, which raises real questions of what President Trump himself is going to say about this, because he very clearly had been signaling he did not want a strike to happen.

Oren Liebermann, standby. Keep us updated on what you're hearing, on the ground, in Israel.

Also joining us is CNN Senior White House Correspondent, Kristen Holmes, who's at the White House.

Kristen, we just saw the President out earlier. What are you hearing from officials about -- you know, they're saying no involvement in these strikes. But were the senior White House officials, and the President, aware that these strikes were coming tonight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We were told that they were, that both the President and his top closest advisers were told that this was likely to come tonight. So, they were preparing, bracing for these strikes.

And you read that Marco Rubio statement. Right now, that is coming from the administration, and from the White House. They are putting that out as the whole-of-administration statement here. And one of the lines that you mentioned, I want to talk about. Because, it says, Israel advised us that they believe this action was necessary for its self-defense.

Well, it doesn't answer specific questions that we're going to want to get to the bottom of, which is, who was exactly advised? When was President Trump briefed on this? Did Trump talk to Netanyahu? Obviously, the last call we know of between the two leaders was on

Monday. And Donald Trump has both privately and publicly said that he did not want Israel to strike in Iran, and particularly he didn't want them to derail those talks. And as of today, they were still indicating that those talks were on in Oman. But as Oren said, it seems unlikely, or it seems hard to see how those weren't completely derailed.

Now, I was pointed to this statement because this would have been around the time that they were briefed, that Donald Trump himself was briefed, on what was going on and about these strikes.

Donald Trump posted, saying, We remain committed to a Diplomatic Resolution to the Iran Nuclear Issue. My entire Administration has been directed to negotiate with Iran. They could be a Great Country, but they first must completely give up hopes of obtaining a Nuclear Weapon. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Clearly here, signaling to Iran, before we even get to the strikes, before we get to Marco Rubio's statement, that the U.S. had nothing to do with this, putting that out there.

Remember, earlier today, Donald Trump was asked why we were -- why the U.S. was removing non-essential personnel from embassies in that region, and he said, The Israelis didn't tell me anything, but essentially alluded to the fact that a strike could be coming, a massive strike could be coming, but then said it might not be imminent. So, it was very vague on the facts, but did particularly say the Israelis had not told him anything.

So the big question also, Kaitlan, is going to be, and this is what we'll be looking into, the next couple of days. Did Donald Trump try to dissuade Netanyahu, in any way, from launching these strikes after he had been both publicly and privately for days? Or was this done on different levels here?

COLLINS: And what does it say, if he did, that Prime Minister Netanyahu was not dissuaded there.

HOLMES: Absolutely.

[21:10:00]

COLLINS: Thank you, Kristen. Keep us updated on what you're hearing, out of the White House tonight.

Also, joining me is CNN's Chief National Security Analyst, Jim Sciutto.

And Jim, obviously, there's just a lot of layers to this, and to what the scale and scope of this attack are. We have to wait and see what that looks like to see. As Israel seems to very clearly think a counterattack could happen quite soon here.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no question. Let's talk for a moment about the range of retaliation that not just Israel, but the U.S. is concerned about. One, of course, Israel is on alert right now. That's why we have a live picture of the sky, over Jerusalem there. For an Iranian retaliation, much like we saw last year, twice.

I was there in October, last year, when Israel -- when Iran launched multiple missiles against Israel, and some of them got through. Despite Israel's formidable air defenses, Iran can fire enough to overwhelm them, and get some through. And there will be concern tonight that they will try to amp up those numbers, to get more missiles through, and that's a concern.

Beyond that, of course, the U.S. has multiple military installations with active service members deployed around the region.

COLLINS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: They are on high alert tonight.

And then finally, a category of attack that a number of officials have mentioned to me, that has been on their radar screen for some time, is, does Iran take the step of carrying out terror attacks on Western soil, including in the U.S. in response?

It's a possibility. It is well-known that Iran has such capabilities. It is something that the U.S. intelligence agencies, counterterror officials attempt to watch closely. But that would be a potential field of retaliation that causes great concern. That's something to keep in mind.

Another point I will make, just to Kristen's reporting, a short time ago, is that when we reported three weeks ago, that the U.S. assessed Israel was preparing for exactly a strike like this, multiple U.S. officials and lawmakers told me the concern was that Israel might very well go ahead, either without U.S. permission to do so, or even potentially over U.S. objections. We don't know the circumstances of this, how far, whether Donald Trump gave Israel a red light, or a green light, or a yellow light, something in between.

But there was concern, and has been, for a number of weeks now, that Israel might attempt, might go forward without a U.S.-OK. That said, Israel can only do so much, in terms of getting to the most protected Iranian nuclear facilities that are deep underground.

COLLINS: And that makes me think of the reporting also, in addition to following on what you had reported, from Barak Ravid, just a few days ago, that Steve Witkoff, Trump's top envoy, had been warning Republicans on the Hill about if Iran -- if Israel struck Iran, that Iran's counterattack could potentially overwhelm Israel--

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: --that that was a concern that they had, that they had seen in intelligence. Jim, I want you to listen. Because we are now hearing from the Israeli prime minister himself, and why he chose to carry out this attack now. I want everyone to listen to what the Israeli prime minister has to say tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Moments ago, Israel launched Operation Rising Lion, a targeted military operation to roll back the Iranian threat to Israel's very survival. This operation will continue for as many days as it takes to remove this threat.

For decades, the tyrants of Tehran have brazenly, openly called for Israel's destruction. They backed up their genocidal rhetoric with a program to develop nuclear weapons.

In recent years, Iran has produced enough highly enriched uranium for nine atom bombs. Nine. In recent months, Iran has taken steps that it has never taken before, steps to weaponize this enriched uranium. And if not stopped, Iran could produce a nuclear weapon in a very short time. It could be a year. It could be within a few months, less than a year. This is a clear and present danger to Israel's very survival.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: So Jim, you hear what he was saying there, talking, this is something we keep hearing from Israeli officials, about Iran having enough uranium that, he said there, it could be nine atom bombs.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: Earlier, I had heard a figure about 10 or so from officials.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: Is that something that U.S. officials agree with? Or what is their view of a statement like that from the Prime Minister?

SCIUTTO: They certainly agree that the breakout time, as it's known, that the time that Israel -- Iran, rather, would require to go from the fissile material it has, right now, to enough to create a bomb, has reduced over time, perhaps to as short as a period of weeks.

[21:15:00]

Now, notably, when the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal that President Obama negotiated, was still in place, the goal of that deal was to lengthen that breakout time, to months, perhaps to a year. Without that deal, without the monitoring, without the limiting of Iran's enrichment capabilities, that breakout time has reduced, over time to perhaps a number of weeks.

So, what the Prime Minister is saying there is correct. Now, as you know, President Trump's hope was that he could negotiate with Iran to lengthen that breakout period and, perhaps, as he said publicly, stop enriching uranium entirely on Iranian soil, which has seemed to be a red line for Iran. The question, of course, is, did Trump still have hope that he could make a deal, or had he lost all hope? We don't know.

Israel has, well, certainly made negotiations, right now, if not, extremely unlikely, impossible, right, with the attacks we're seeing tonight.

COLLINS: Yes. Trump seemed to be more disillusioned, about the possibility of that, recent days. But he was still hopeful. I mean, they were still going to the talks, as you mentioned, in Oman, this weekend.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: Jim, standby. I know you've been talking to your sources. We'll get back to you in a moment, as you're hearing more about this attack that's unfolding tonight.

Also, here is CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst that I just mentioned, Barak Ravid, who is one of the best-sourced reporters in the region.

Barak, what are you hearing about why now, and what Israel is striking tonight.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: So first, Kaitlan, something I just heard from a senior Israeli official who says that, according to Israeli assessments, there are very high chances that the entire Iranian General Staff, including the head of the Iranian General Staff of the Iranian military, and several senior Iranian nuclear scientists, were all eliminated in the Israeli strikes tonight.

I hear that, again, from a senior Israeli official, who says that several senior, top Iranian military commanders, including the head of the General Staff of the Iranian military and senior nuclear scientists--

COLLINS: Whoa.

RAVID: --have all been targeted in those strikes. And according to IDF assessments, there's a high chance that they've been eliminated.

COLLINS: I mean, that is really striking intelligence, if that is accurate, from what you're hearing from Israeli officials, from what they have been seeing.

The question is, was that part of the target here, when they were going after? I mean, so far, all we had heard confirmed was that they had targeted elements of Iran's nuclear program and long-range missile capabilities. But were they actually directly targeting these senior military leaders and nuclear scientists in Iran? RAVID: As far as I understand, they were. I think this is a much broader operation than we thought. This is war between Iran and Israel. This is what happened tonight. This is what's going to happen in the next days, I think, in the next weeks, maybe even more.

The Middle East has entered tonight, a whole new phase that I don't think we ever -- we've ever seen before. And the consequences of what happened tonight, I think we still don't know the implications, we still don't know fully the results. But I think we are in a totally new phase in the region.

COLLINS: The question immediately is, is what Iran is going to do in response to this, and if they knew that this Israeli attack was coming. I mean, obviously with the U.S. reducing the non-essential personnel, yesterday, there are questions about this circulating all around the White House, at least.

What are you hearing in terms of what Israel is preparing for, if they knew that they were going to be able to eliminate senior Iranian military commanders and Iranian nuclear scientists?

RAVID: So, I think what the Israelis hope is that what they did tonight will significantly damage Iran's ability to launch a retaliation, a counterstrike, especially with long-range missiles.

A senior Israeli official told me that other than the airstrikes, the Israeli Mossad, the Foreign Intelligence Agency, conducted several operations inside Iran, against Iranian air defenses and against the Iranian long-range missiles.

But in any case, the IDF has already issued statement to the entire Israeli population, that they expect an Iranian retaliation with launching of long-range ballistic missiles and drones, as we saw last October, and as we saw in April of 2024. But those Iranian attacks are expected to be much, much wider and stronger.

And the question is whether Israel's air defenses can hold, or whether they're going to be overwhelmed by the Iranian retaliation. And if they are overwhelmed, the damages are expected to be very, very high on the Israeli side.

[21:20:00]

COLLINS: And, I mean, just what you're saying here is really striking, Barak. And just, for people who aren't familiar, you are truly one of the best-sourced reporters. And for you to say, This is opening up an entirely new phase in the Middle East, is obviously not something you say very lightly here.

What are you going to be watching for in the next few minutes and hours and days?

RAVID: To me that, by the way, one of the most striking things tonight was the fact that Secretary of State, and acting National Security Advisor, Marco Rubio, has issued a statement, just a few minutes ago. There is one thing that is not written in this statement. He did not say that, the U.S. supports Israel.

I think this is something that I cannot remember when a Secretary of State of the United States, during war time between Israel and adversary and its, like, archenemy, like Iran, and the Secretary of State of the United States puts out the statement, and does not say that, the U.S. supports Israel.

COLLINS: Yes.

RAVID: And I think it says a lot about what the Trump administration thinks about this move.

COLLINS: I just want to read that -- reread that statement to everyone, just so they know fully what you're talking about. It is from Secretary Rubio.

And obviously, there is a real question of how President Trump is going to respond to this, because he clearly did not want this to happen. He said it publicly.

Rubio said, quote, "Tonight, Israel took unilateral action against Iran. We are not involved in strikes against Iran and our top priority is protecting American forces in the region. Israel advised us that they believe this action was necessary for its self-defense. President Trump and the Administration have taken all necessary steps to protect our forces and remain in close contact with our regional partners. Let me be clear: Iran should not target U.S. interests or personnel."

I mean, you're completely accurate when you say there is no statement there saying, The United States stands behind what Israel has done here.

RAVID: Yes, and I think, again, I don't know why this was not mentioned, but I can guess that the reason is that the United States did not want this to happen.

And I'll tell you another thing, Kaitlan. Ahead of the Israeli strike, the U.S. government notified several of its allies in the region that an Israeli strike is going to happen, ahead of the strike. And in that notification, it said, We do not -- we are not going to take part in this operation, whatsoever, and President Trump's only goal is peace.

I think this tells you a lot, because we saw the public statement by the Trump administration, and I now told you about the private messages that the Trump administration gave. And I don't think it -- we can read it any other way, but see it as white statement by the Trump administration that it does not support this Israeli move.

COLLINS: And just say it again, what was it exactly that they had communicated to allies about the strike beyond saying, they want peace?

RAVID: Something like, I think, between 30 minutes to an hour before the Israeli jets started launching their missiles, the U.S. government notified several of its allies in the region, and around the world, and told them that, Israel is going to conduct a strike in Iran today, and that the U.S. is not involved in the strike whatsoever, and that the only thing that President Trump wants is peace.

Those were the three messages that have been conveyed in private to several U.S. allies, earlier today.

COLLINS: It is quite remarkable, between that and your reporting, that senior Iranian military commanders, and several Iranian nuclear scientists, have been eliminated as part of this strike.

Barak Ravid, as always, thank you for the excellent reporting. Please stay with us, and come back if you -- if you have learned more in this hour.

As we're staying on top of this breaking news, here at CNN, Israel is conducting strikes on Iran tonight. It has confirmed, in a statement, from the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. We're getting live reaction out of the White House and in Washington. We'll be back with a quick update after this.

[21:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're following breaking news here, as Israel has launched strikes against Iran, as we are now getting confirmation of what the scale and scope of this attack looks like.

Israel says that they struck Iran's nuclear program, and other military targets. And we have now confirmed from an Israeli security source into CNN that top military leaders and nuclear scientists were targeted in these opening strikes.

But what we are hearing out of Israel tonight is this is not the end of this. The Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, himself, while defending this strike that Israel took, says, this operation will continue for, quote, Many days.

I want to bring in Democratic senator, Jeff Merkley of Oregon, who sits on the Foreign Relations Committee, and is joining me tonight.

Thank you, Senator, for being here.

Can I just, first, get your reaction to what we are seeing play out in Iran tonight?

[21:30:00]

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): This is what, absolutely what we've been expecting for several days. All the signs were there. We were removing all of our personnel from Iraq. We were keeping forces stationed in the area. The President was making kind of vague statements about the possibility. So, this is what we were expecting.

Kaitlan, what really strikes me here is this is a tragedy that never had to be. I just think it's worth reminding folks that we would still be under very severe restrictions, on Iran's nuclear program, had we stayed in the JCPOA agreement. They had to put 97 percent of their nuclear materials outside the country. They proceeded -- cap on enrichment was a little over 3 percent as compared to 90 percent necessary for nuclear weapon. Massive monitoring of every facility that they had.

They had three paths to a nuclear weapon. And one was a uranium path, and that's what I've been describing. The second was a plutonium path, and they dismantled their plutonium reactor. And the third was a covert path. And the covert path is why all that monitoring would have occurred.

All of these measures would still have been in place, for another five years, had we not taken ourselves out of the JCPOA and dismantled that that framework.

COLLINS: And, of course, talks are happening, right now, for the Trump administration trying to strike a new agreement with Iran. We'll see what this means for those.

But as far as what's happening tonight. Does this mean this is now a regional war, in your view, between Israel and Iran?

MERKLEY: Well, Israel is by far the superior power. They are seizing this moment, because they're at a peak of that power. Syria is in chaos. Hezbollah in Lebanon has been thoroughly deflated. And so, in this moment, they are at the maximum ability to focus on a conflict with Iran.

We anticipate, of course, there will be a reaction from Iran. But the U.S., undoubtedly, will help Iran (ph) really blunt the effectiveness of any Iranian retaliation.

COLLINS: Will help Israel, you mean. Can I--

MERKLEY: Will help Israel, yes, yes. Thank you.

COLLINS: Can I ask you on that? Because, as Barak Ravid was just noting in the statement that we got from Secretary Rubio tonight, they don't say that they support Israel in the action that it's taking tonight. They say Israel advised them that they believed it was necessary for Israel's self-defense. They said that they've taken steps to protect U.S. forces.

Does that stand out to you, sir, that that is not something that is included in that statement coming out of the White House tonight?

MERKLEY: Absolutely. That part is missing. And while I could be wrong, it's very hard for me to imagine us not partnering to help defend Israel against a retaliatory strike.

COLLINS: So, there's no doubt, in your view, that the U.S. will help Israel, if Iran, if and when Iran, responds to this strike tonight?

MERKLEY: That's certainly what I would anticipate. There's such close coordination with our intelligence, such close coordination with our military forces. We have forces in the region that can help, as we did before, when Iranian drones and rockets, ballistic missiles came on Israel. So that's what I would expect.

COLLINS: You talked about this being an unnecessary move, essentially saying, if the United States had not pulled out of the JCPOA, this wouldn't -- situation would not be playing out.

But of course, the United States did pull out. This is happening right now.

Do you personally support the strikes that we're seeing from Israel tonight?

MERKLEY: No, I do not support them. Israel fiercely opposed working out in a peaceful fashion, the deflation and diminishment of Iran's program. They constantly strive to say they wanted the military action.

It will be interesting to see what American weapons were used in this strike. It's already been conveyed that our planes were not used, but I imagine some of the bombs were ours. I don't know if any of our American bunker-busting bombs were used, which are much larger, and take a larger plane to carry.

But it's hard to imagine a situation, given our close coordination and intelligence with Israel, that we didn't have some -- a pretty thorough sense. And just as you heard from your expert, it appears that the United States was alerting our allies, in the region, about the coming strike. So, we certainly had a fair amount of information.

COLLINS: Yes, including moving that non-essential personnel out of the way.

Senator Jeff Merkley, thank you for joining us on this breaking news tonight.

MERKLEY: Thank you.

COLLINS: Also here tonight is CNN National Security Analyst, and the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.

And it's great to have you here, Beth.

I want to ask you about this reporting that CNN has now confirmed that we do know senior military leaders in Iran and nuclear scientists were targeted in these strikes. We don't know yet how successful that was, and how many were eliminated. Barak Ravid says that he is told that some of them were.

If that is the case here, what does that tell you about how Iran may respond to this tonight?

[21:35:00]

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, Kaitlan, I think that there's one way of putting, where we are right now. I mean, Israel is at war with Iran. This isn't a strike. This isn't a strike and a retaliation and a tit- for-tat. This is full-up war. And so, when Israel says it's going to keep going, this is where we are.

And they started at the top, and they started very, very seriously. Removing the Chief of the General Staff, in other words, like our Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, attacking, basically, what would be our senior military command, you can imagine what Americans would do. The question is whether Israel's ability to respond has been affected by Israel trying to decapitate their senior military leadership.

But we should expect, and that's what Israel is expecting, a massive, much bigger retaliation than what they saw last time, because Iran now is under existential threat, and we should expect a response along those lines.

COLLINS: Well, and to hear you put it so bluntly, saying that Israel is at war with Iran here, in your view, of what this means tonight. We're learning more about just beyond the airstrikes that we saw play out that were hitting Iran.

Barak Ravid is also reporting tonight that the Mossad led a series of covert sabotage operations, deep inside Iran, which he reports, were aimed at damaging the strategic missile sites and its air defense capabilities.

When you look at this, and what options Israel had here, on a scale of one to 10, how high would you say that is?

SANNER: That's pretty high, in terms of what they're trying to do now is soften up, like they did last time, remove any of the remaining air defenses that they can, in order to have free reign in the air over Iran, limit the risk that their jets, their fighter jets, would have in delivering ordnance.

But we should also remember that they can't go to 10 or a 11, like we would. But they don't have the GBU-43/B. It's called The Mother of all Bombs. And they don't have it because they don't have bombers that can deliver it. They only have jets. And that limits -- the fighter jets. And that limits the amount of ordnance.

And so, they are forced to do multiple strikes, where you're hitting over and over again, the same thing, so you can penetrate. But there's no way that they can independently wipe out Iran's nuclear facilities, deep inside Fordow, deep inside this mountain with what they have.

COLLINS: For people who don't know just fully what your job previously, as Deputy DNI entailed. I mean, you would go in and brief the President, personally at times, for matters like this one. If you were in that situation now, I mean, what would your -- what would that look like right now? What would you be preparing?

SANNER: Well, right now, everybody would be doing situation reports. This is not the time for strategic analysis in one way. You put that aside, and then some big-picture things would be done. But right now, you're trying to figure out what's the threat to U.S. forces, and what are our allies in the region going to do in response to this as well. You'll remember, or think our listeners will as well, in April and in October, a number of the Arab states were absolutely crucial in providing the intelligence picture, as well as doing some of the intercepts that were of the drones and missiles that were headed into Israel. And so, understanding where everybody is in the region, what people are going to do, and then trying to do the bomb damage assessment, as well, on what has been wiped out in Iran, and how does that affect their ability to fight back.

COLLINS: Beth Sanner, thank you for joining us tonight, on the breaking news.

Also here, Brett McGurk, the former White House Coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa under President Biden.

And Brett, I heard you talking earlier about waiting to see what it was exactly that Israel was targeting. I mean, we now know that it's key parts of the nuclear program, its nuclear scientists, its top military commanders in Iran, some of them, they believe they were successful in eliminating. What do you make of what we've learned so far?

BRETT MCGURK, FORMER WHITE HOUSE MIDDLE EAST COORDINATOR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Kaitlan, what I make of this new reporting is that the Israelis may have had an opportunity, they thought. Some of these intelligence operations, you can only execute them if you actually have everybody in the same room.

In any case, what I see Israel doing here, they're really throwing the kitchen sink at Iran. This is a Mossad operation, clearly. This is an air operation. It's targeting missile commanders, leading military commanders, nuclear facilities.

I have one open question about the effectiveness of the attack on the nuclear side. I mentioned this earlier. There's a deeply underground enrichment facility called Fordow, very difficult for the Israelis to target that. And if you don't, that means Iran can continue to enrich uranium and eventually produce weapons-grade uranium. So big question on Fordow.

[21:40:00]

The number one thing that the White House would be thinking about right now, having been in the seat here, not long ago, is trying to keep the United States out of this. I thought that statement was actually pretty good, saying that, We had nothing to do with this, do not come after us.

But also, I am certain, behind-the-scenes, we are doing an awful lot to prepare for the defense of Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Americans live in Israel. And we could very well see a significant Iranian ballistic missile attack, as we saw in October. And those defenses have to be in place. That takes time and preparation and planning, and I'm certain that is all underway.

COLLINS: If Iran decided to respond, I mean, tonight, how quickly could that happen?

MCGURK: If it's true that Israel took out the main strategic command, I think it'd be very difficult for the Iranians to respond on that tight a turn. It takes them some time to get the missiles set up. Once they're set, they can launch in about five-minute intervals of barrages, about 30 missiles apiece.

Again, on October 1st of last year, we had 200 ballistic missiles in the sky, at the same time, heading for Israel. That entire flight from Iran to Israel takes 13 minutes, and there's only a period of minutes when they're range to be hit, deflected, to try to protect the people of Israel. I cannot overstate how serious that kind of situation is. We are very fortunate, in that attack, to largely defeat it. There were no Israeli casualties. So, here we have to see.

I think Iran will try to do something like that in scale. Whether or not they can pull it off, if they're in some disarray, that remains to be seen.

On the nuclear facilities, though. Again, big question here is Fordow. Because if you don't remove that enrichment facility, and those centrifuges, Iran still has the capacity to produce weapons-grade uranium, and you have not resolved the problem. I think that is a big open question here.

COLLINS: Yes, it is, along with several others, including how the U.S. is going to respond to this.

Brett McGurk, thank you for being with us tonight.

I want everyone to stay with us. We are continuing to follow this breaking news, as we are learning more, by the minute, about what the full scope of this attack by Israel against Iran looks like, how the United States is responding tonight, and what we are hearing out of the White House. We'll be back after a quick break.

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're continuing to follow breaking news here, as Israel has launched massive strikes against Iran, and wide-ranging at that, as Israel says they've targeted Iran's nuclear program, Iran's top military leaders, as well as senior Iranian nuclear scientists.

Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says to expect these strikes and these attacks, by Israel, against Iran, to continue for days.

The Foreign Minister in Israel said that -- is said to be holding a, quote, Marathon of calls, we are told, with counterparts around the world, clearly wanting to know more about what the extent of these strikes is going to look like.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is joining me now. Natasha, what are you hearing from sources? As, I mean, obviously everyone in Washington, at the Pentagon, in the Situation Room, the White House, is watching this incredibly closely.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, and that's -- and that's especially true, because there are so many U.S. forces that are currently in the region, and that could be vulnerable to attack, by either Iran or its proxy groups, if Iran does decide to retaliate to Israel, and importantly, if the U.S., which it typically does, decides to step in to defend Israel, in the event of an Iranian attack, something that they obviously usually feel an obligation to do.

And so, while we haven't gotten a statement from the Pentagon, just yet, tonight, they have been preparing behind-the-scenes, for several days now, in response to this potential Israeli strike that they were clearly hearing about, given all of the movements that we were seeing in the region.

Just yesterday, DOD and the State Department, they made efforts to arrange the departure of all non-essential personnel, from facilities across the Middle East. Secretary of Defense, Hegseth, also authorized the voluntary departure of military dependents located across the Central Command region.

And this is all part of the preparations that have been happening, really for weeks now. Because, as we reported, my colleagues, Katie Bo Lillis and Jim Sciutto and I, late last month, the U.S. had obtained intelligence, at that time, that Israel was weighing this kind of strike, on Iranian nuclear facilities. Something that was likely, that we reported at the time, was likely to make President Trump deeply angry, and something that he, of course was pushing the Israeli Prime Minister not to do because, of course, they were hoping to strike a deal with the Iranians on their nuclear program.

And so, the U.S. has been bracing for this. However, U.S. officials, at the time, they were very divided on just how likely it was that Netanyahu would actually move forward with this.

But the U.S. actually, interestingly, just recently diverted anti- drone technology to U.S. forces in the Middle East, in a pretty clear sign that they were expecting escalation of some kind. They diverted that technology from Ukraine to the U.S. Air Force in the Central Command region.

And anti-drone technology, of course, is very key, in the event that Iranian proxy groups start to launch drone attacks against U.S. personnel, which, as we saw last year, is capable of killing service members, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, that's such a good point about that, because obviously Ukrainian officials have been bringing that up. Now we'll see how that comes to play here.

[21:50:00]

Natasha Bertrand, thank you for that reporting.

Also joining me is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon.

And Ambassador, it's great to have you here, sir.

Just first, on the strike that we are seeing play out tonight, and what this means. Should we now consider Israel to be at war with Iran?

AMB. DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Prime Minister Netanyahu was very clear. We took a preemptive attack to defense ourselves -- to defend ourselves, and we are targeting the nuclear facilities and the ballistic missile centers in Iran.

So, we don't go into declarations now. We take actions. We decided not to wait for Iran to attack us with nuclear capabilities. We knew that they were plotting to do that. And while they were talking with many countries, and negotiating their moves secretly, with a military plan, to attack Israel, and what we did was an act of self-defense.

And we have abilities. You know, Kaitlan, 80 years ago, when Auschwitz was liberated, we required the support of the allies, to protect our people. But today, we have our own state, our own military, our own Air Force. And today, we are protecting ourselves from another holocaust.

COLLINS: I mean, these are much wider than the preemptive strikes, based on what we've seen so far, especially in terms of targeting Iran's top military leaders, as well as senior nuclear scientists, kind of en masse, based on what we have heard.

Do you know how many of those top military leaders and nuclear scientists in Iran, the strikes against them were successful? How many of them have been eliminated tonight?

DANON: No, I cannot go into those details. But I can tell you one thing. Those people, who were involved in the nuclear production, though they were putting together the ballistic missiles, they are our targets. They are part of the machine that threatened Israel and other countries in the world. If you look back at attack that Israel took, whether it was against the -- Iraq or Syria, were trying to develop nuclear reactors. I think today, everybody can thank Israel for those actions.

So maybe today, some people are not sure about why we are doing it today. But down the road, few years from today, the world will thank Israel for the actions we took today night.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, we're hearing from U.S. senators, who say they don't support these attacks.

Did the United -- did Israel coordinate with the Trump administration before launching these attacks?

DANON: We have ongoing dialog with the United States. But this decision was a decision of the Israeli leadership. We are independent. We take our own decisions. And for us, it is not to involve the U.S. in this attack, and we saw the statement of Secretary Rubio. It was a decision of the Israeli government, and it was taken by our forces.

COLLINS: If Iran responds, and launches a counterattack, does Israel expect the United States to assist them in that response?

DANON: Well, first, we called the population. We woke up the entire people of Israel, about 10 million people, in the middle of the night, because we expected that there probably would be a retaliation. We know it will not be easy today, for the people of Israel. But we are determined, especially after October 7th, to take preemptive actions and not to wait to be surprised by our enemies.

COLLINS: Do you expect the U.S. to help the Israel in response?

DANON: Well, we have our capabilities. We hear threats that they -- from Iran, to attack the allies of the U.S., not only the Israel, but other allies. That's the decision of the United States. But we have our capabilities. And we knew exactly what we were doing, before we started this attack.

COLLINS: But this is going to be a crucial question, obviously, in terms of, of what Israel is able to do, and whether or not Israel could be overwhelmed, depending on what an Iranian response would look like. And so, I do just -- I want to ask the question again, whether or not Israel will be expecting the United States to assist, if Iran does respond to these attacks that Israel has launched tonight?

DANON: So, I don't think we should go into speculation. As I told you earlier, we have our capabilities. We developed a lot of technology, some of it together with the U.S., some of it with other countries.

But I think today, it's not only about Israel. You hear threats against the allies of the United States, and we are focused now on continuing to eliminate the threat. And we will do whatever it takes, to make sure that Iran will not have ballistic missiles and will not have nuclear capability. We know it will be long. We know it will not be easy for the people of Israel. But this is a historic days, for our nation.

COLLINS: Ambassador Danny Danon, thank you for joining us, on the breaking news tonight.

DANON: Thank you.

COLLINS: And we are going to continue to follow this breaking news, as we're learning more about the scale, and what this attack looks like, and also real questions about what it means. As far as what that response is going to look like, you heard the Ambassador not saying there whether or not they will be counting on the United States to help Israel, in that response.

[21:55:00]

And still waiting to see the President himself weigh in on all of this. We're staying on top of the breaking news. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: As we're following the breaking news out of the Middle East tonight, and watching that very closely, we also have breaking news here in the United States this evening, as a federal judge has just ruled that President Trump unlawfully federalized thousands of members of California's National Guard. The judge has now ordered President Trump to return control of the troops back to the state, and back to Governor Gavin Newsom.

The President had deployed 4,000 members of the Guard to L.A., in response to protests that started, last Friday, and are continuing tonight, against ICE operations inside the city.

[22:00:00]

But Senior U.S. District Judge, Charles Breyer, wrote, in a 36-page ruling, that President Trump's, quote, Actions were illegal both exceeding the scope of his statutory authority and violating the 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution. He must therefore return control of the National Guard, the California National Guard to the Governor of the State and to the California forthwith.

Judge Breyer is pausing his ruling until noon, on Friday. And the Justice Department has filed a notice of appeal in response. We'll see how the White House responds to that.

Thanks so much for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" continues.