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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Source: Trump Has Reviewed Attack Plans But Holding Off For Now; U.S. Embassy In Israel: "No Announcement" About Evacuating Americans; Hawley: Medicaid Cuts Depart From Trump's Vision "Big Time." Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 18, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BETH SANNER, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD'S BELFER CENTER: --I think that they might. I mean, I don't think Israel would have started this if they thought they had no option other than the United States.
But here's another idea. There's a possibility that Iran has other covert facilities, and that they could actually have moved some of their stockpile to other places. And so maybe even taking out Fordow might not be enough.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Which is obviously a worrying thought. And how do you find those other facilities without boots on the ground, without control over the regime?
Beth Sanner, thank you.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, what President Trump told me, in the Oval Office, about whether or not the United States plans to strike Iran.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, here in Washington, at the White House, the President is keeping his cards close to his chest, as we are learning new details about a potential U.S. strike on Iran.
CNN has learned that the President has reviewed potential attack plans. But the key word there is, reviewed and not approved, as far as we know, right now this hour. Our source says that the President is holding off to see if Iran steps back from its nuclear program. Though, so far, Tehran has given no indication, publicly, that it plans to do so.
The options for U.S. military involvement in Iran were at the heart of a Situation Room meeting that the President convened this afternoon. Before that meeting took place, though, there was a hastily-arranged media scrum, inside the Oval Office, and I asked President Trump about his latest thinking on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Does that mean you haven't made a decision yet on what to do?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I have ideas as to what to do, but I haven't made a final -- I like to make the final decision one second before it's due, you know, because things change, I mean. Especially with war. Things change with war. It can go from one extreme to the other. War's -- war's very bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President there didn't offer any timeline for when he could make a decision, as he has been convening that National Security team at the White House, again, for the second day in a row. As you can see here, our CNN team spotted the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Dan Caine, arriving around 02:00 this afternoon.
And according to the President, Iran would also like to come to the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Have you closed the door on meeting with them?
TRUMP: No.
COLLINS: OK. So, it's still open to them coming here, in your -- in your eyes?
TRUMP: Yes. I mean, they asked if they could come. We'll see if that happens. It's not that easy for them to come. They can't get out, you know. They're in Iran. And in one case, I think, a guy wanted to come so badly, but he can't get out because there's bombs dropping all over the place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So that's what the President had to say about the possibility of a sit-down with Iranian officials at a critical moment.
Compare it to what Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister told Christiane Amanpour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Did you ask to go to the White House? Has your government asked for access?
MAJID TAKHT-RAVANCHI, IRANIAN DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: Not -- not -- Christiane, not at all.
AMANPOUR: OK.
TAKHT-RAVANCHI: Not at all. We are not begging for anything. What we are saying -- what we are saying is that, stop this aggression. Then, we will have time to do whatever needed. As long as the aggression continues, as long as this brutality continues, we cannot think of engaging.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: This comes as Iran's Supreme Leader said today that Iran would never surrender, and also warned that any U.S. strike, in his words, will have, quote, Serious, irreparable consequences.
I want to get straight to CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is live on the ground, in Tel Aviv, for us tonight.
And Jeremy, obviously, we've still seen missiles that Iran has been launching in these waves of attacks. What's it looking like tonight, in terms of how many of them are getting through?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there has certainly been a massive drop-off. When you look at where we were at the end of last week versus today. I mean, that first wave of Iranian attacks brought dozens of ballistic missiles that were being fired at the same time. Now we're talking about single-digit numbers, and the result of that is also fewer casualties and less destruction here in Israel.
This is now the third night in a row, where we all -- while we have had waves of ballistic missile attacks, they have not caused any fatalities and no significant damage to residential buildings, here in Tel Aviv, or elsewhere in Israel.
And I've been speaking with the Israeli military about this. And they assess, at this stage, that they have done significant damage to Iran's capabilities on the ballistic missile front. That is, in fact, limiting Iran's ability to fire large barrages of ballistic missiles at the same time.
They estimate that they've destroyed about 40 percent of Iran's ballistic missile launchers at this stage, that they've also killed several senior Iranian Air Force commanders who would be responsible for coordinating the firing of those ballistic missiles.
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And in addition to that, because of how many air defense assets they've taken out in western Iran, the Iranians are now moving a lot of their ballistic missile capabilities eastward, which is also causing delays, and impacting their ability to fire off these waves of ballistic missiles.
That being said, there are still questions about Iran's ability to regroup and to get that capacity, back online, particularly, should there be a significant event, like a U.S. strike on that Fordow nuclear facility, which we know that President Trump has indeed been considering.
And you can see that reflected in the fact that the United States is already changing its posture in the region, as President Trump considers that possibility. With the U.S. Embassy now closed for the next several days, and we've also seen the U.S. Embassy facilitating the evacuation of some--
COLLINS: Yes.
DIAMOND: --non-essential personnel, as well as the families of diplomats in the region.
And what's also important to keep in mind is, should the United States get involved? Iran could retaliate against U.S. troops in the region that are much closer to Iran then they are here in Israel. And that means that Iran has a range of capabilities, beyond ballistic missiles, that could also be used to fire on U.S. troops in the region.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. And that is top of mind for officials, inside the White House, as they make their decision here.
Jeremy Diamond, on the ground, in Tel Aviv. We'll check back in with you, as the news warrants tonight.
And also, as the President is weighing this critical decision, what we're seeing on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, there are two members of Congress. They are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, to be sure. But they are joining forces tonight, in an attempt to force the President to get approval from Congress before he could launch any strikes, should he decide to do so, against Iran.
One of the members leading that effort is my source tonight. Congressman Ro Khanna.
And Congressman, it's great to have you here.
I do think there is a question of whether or not you actually believe and think that this War Powers Resolution is ultimately going to get a vote in the House.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, it deserves a vote. The Speaker needs to bring a vote on any War Powers Resolution. And they can vote it down. But certainly, every member of Congress should say whether they support us going into Iran, and having strikes which could start another Middle East war.
COLLINS: Last night, Senator Tim Sheehy, he's a Republican, told me he doesn't think that the President needs congressional approval, in order to launch an offensive strike on Iran.
Why do you think he's wrong?
KHANNA: If we launch a strike on Fordow, it's inevitable that Iran will retaliate. All of the experts are saying that. They may retaliate against troops in Iraq. They may retaliate against other American assets. They may engage in counterterrorism. If they retaliate, we will have to, of course, hit back. We're not going to allow Iran to hit our troops and not hit back. And that is going to draw us into a war with Iran. I'm opposed to that.
I think the American people, at the very least, want their members of Congress to vote, whether we want another war in the Middle East, after what they've seen with the war in Iraq.
COLLINS: Senator Schumer, the Leader of the Democrats, over in the Senate, from what I've seen so far, has not committed to voting for a similar resolution to yours, that is -- that is being floated around the Senate. He said today to NBC that Congress would not hesitate to exercise its authority if needed.
What do you make of that position?
KHANNA: It was very disappointing. His statement made no sense. One of the things we need to do, as the Democratic Party, is speak plainly. And this party should stand up against Donald Trump going and invading Iran.
Frankly, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and people on the right have been stronger voices than Senator Schumer. Now, he's the one who cheer-led us into the war in Iraq. So, he doesn't have much credibility on these issues.
And I would like the Democratic leadership, to support Bernie Sanders and Tim Kaine, and say, We are not going in to Iran. In the House, for us to have this vote with Massie and me. The American people are sick of this. It's one of the reasons Donald Trump won, when he called out Jeb Bush, and he said to Jeb Bush, You're not willing to say the Iraq War is a mistake. This is an opportunity for the Democratic Party to be the anti-war party again.
COLLINS: So, are you saying that you're in agreement with Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, and Marjorie Taylor Greene?
KHANNA: On this issue? Absolutely. I mean, they are talking to ordinary Americans, who are saying, Let's build our industry here. Let's pour money here.
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We spend 10 percent of the federal debt, $36 trillion is because of the Iraq War. It was the biggest foreign policy blunder of the 21st Century. It set America back in so many ways. And you've got young people wondering, are they going to be called up to serve in a war against Iran? None of the ordinary Americans want this, and they certainly want Congress to speak out.
And I think this is not a partisan issue. This is an issue of, Are you for peace abroad and building jobs at home? Or are you for more overseas interventions? And the one thing I can tell you is the American people want Congress to have a vote on this.
COLLINS: Yes. We'll see if that happens. It doesn't seem likely, at this moment.
But Congressman Ro Khanna, keep us updated on your efforts. And thank you for your time tonight.
KHANNA: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also here are my CNN -- are my White House insiders.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny.
Shelby Talcott of Semafor.
And also, retired Air Force colonel, and CNN Military Analyst, Cedric Leighton.
And Colonel, one thing that has been a big question, even at the White House tonight, apparently, based on what we're hearing from Barak Ravid, over at Axios, is whether or not should the President make this decision, and the U.S. is going to strike Fordow, is it going to work? Do we have -- do we know? I mean, obviously they've run these plans, they've looked at this. But do we know if it would be successful?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): We don't, Kaitlan. And that's one of the things.
This particular weapon, the GBU-57 that they're talking about using, basically the MOP, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator? Nobody has tested it in combat. They've tested it in test conditions. But it has never, ever been used in combat.
COLLINS: It's never been used in combat before?
LEIGHTON: Never been used in combat before. So, as a result of that, Kaitlan, we don't really know if it will work. In testing, it has been successful. It has been a weapon that has been -- you know, has met all the parameters of the testing requirements, and has met the requirements that built the system. But it has never been used in combat.
COLLINS: Shelby, the President was pretty evasive today, when he was being asked, what is his timeline here. His language seemed slightly different based on what we had heard the last two days, in terms of just saying, The talks are not working, this is an option that we do have.
What have you been hearing from White House officials about where they're -- where they're standing on this right now?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Yes, I think, what Trump had said earlier today, is that they have multiple options on the table, and they're sort of taking this very carefully, because there's a lot that they have to consider.
They have to consider, A, first and foremost, whether a quick attack will even be effective enough to sort of go in and go out. Donald Trump has made clear that he doesn't want to get into a prolonged war. So, that's an aspect of this.
I'm also told, earlier today, by a Pentagon official that one of the concerns that some people have is that we already have low critical munitions reserves. And so, how would this sort of impact that already low reserves that we have, especially if the attack doesn't work, and we end up having to stay there, or get into a prolonged war? And so, I think that there are, from my understanding, they are planning for sort of multiple potential plans.
And in an ideal world, Iran will come to the table. Donald Trump has said that. It doesn't seem clear that they're going to do that. But I think that part of this, this posturing that Donald Trump has had so publicly, is trying to get Iran to come to the table, trying to sort of influence them to come to the table.
COLLINS: Yes.
I mean, and Jeff, obviously you have covered multiple presidents. And in terms of the way a U.S. President looks at the Middle East, especially this U.S. President is weighing on, on the decision-making process here, and what the aftermath, and the known, unknowns could look like.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There's no doubt. I mean, the whole specter of the Iraq War, from 22 years ago, around this time, actually, is hanging over all of this. I mean, President Trump, certainly, it's really his rise in politics, speaking out against forever wars, from his own party, very explicitly against Jeb Bush, back in the 2016 campaign, as a proxy for his brother, former President George W. Bush.
But that is the question, the unintended consequence of this. I remember very well, at that time, when President Bush and people around him were saying, This would be a very quick -- quick action, a quick war. As you do, Colonel, obviously. But the unintended consequences of this are the central question.
And the assets in the region, so interesting. The President was just at one of the Air Force bases, or one of the air bases, the Al Udeid Air Base outside of Doha.
COLLINS: Oh, yes, you were there.
ZELENY: Just a month ago. I was there with him. He talked to the troops.
So, you have to wonder, is that also weighing on his mind? Some 40,000 American troops are in the region. So yes, if there is a strike, Iran almost certainly cannot reach the U.S. homeland, but they absolutely can reach the American assets in the region, and that is one of the basis. So, you must be wondering what the President is thinking about that.
But look, the unintended consequences of this are something that cannot be understated. In the aftermath, what's the end game here, after a strike, should it happen?
COLLINS: Well, and that's why the intelligence is such a key question here, in terms of what's different. And we've seen this moment now, multiple times, over the last few days, about Tulsi Gabbard, when she testified in March that, yes, they were enriching a lot of uranium, more, she said, than any other country that doesn't have a nuclear stockpile. But she still said, their intelligence was that they were not building a nuclear weapon, at this time. That was in March 2025.
[21:15:00]
The President said, today, when we were in the Oval, that he believed Iran was weeks away from having a nuclear weapon.
LEIGHTON: Well, it sounds like the President, Kaitlan, talked to Bibi Netanyahu before he made a lot of these comments, and that really kind of represents the dichotomy.
Now, it's very possible that the U.S. intelligence community is wrong in their assessment, that there is something about the Iranian program that we don't know, from an intelligence perspective, and we should keep that in mind.
The other part of it, though, is that there are so many aspects that international organizations have mentioned, such as the IAEA, which said very specifically, that there are elements that they uncovered at Fordow, the site that we're talking about, that indicate that the Iranians actually have enriched uranium to a higher level than had they had previously admitted to.
COLLINS: Yes.
Shelby, what's your sense of the President's view of -- I mean, we know he's skeptical of the intelligence community overall. But he had a pretty strong relationship with Director Gabbard, before this. Now it seems, after he dismissed her, when I asked about that, on Air Force One the other day, that maybe it's not exactly what it was previously.
TALCOTT: Well, I think, it has long been known that Donald Trump doesn't necessarily like, when people come out publicly, and sort of say something different from what he has been saying. And so, this was a comment that didn't necessarily help, what he has been saying, and what he is saying now, in recent days.
I still think that he is close to her. She was set to go on the Hill today. She canceled that because she had a White House appointment. So, she's clearly involved in these conversations now. But certainly, he was frustrated at that -- those remarks that she had, and the social media posts, where she had this kind of three-and-a-half minute long post about--
COLLINS: Yes.
TALCOTT: --about all of this.
COLLINS: Do you think, Jeff, that we could actually see Iranian officials at the White House? I mean, the President's kind of teasing this, not fully closing the door on it.
ZELENY: It would be very hard for me to imagine that. I mean, they're a country at war, obviously.
What the Colonel was just mentioning about Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime Minister. I mean, President Trump has been talking to him every day. Is Israel really going to allow that? I mean, how would that work? The country is under attack at the moment. So, I would be very surprised if that was the case.
I mean, perhaps less surprising if the Vice President, or Secretary of State, or Steve Witkoff, would go to the region. But I cannot fathom them coming to the United States.
COLLINS: Yes.
ZELENY: It just doesn't seem like it fits in the timeline and the possibilities now. Even the President has said, the time for that should have already happened.
COLLINS: Yes.
Jeff Zeleny. Shelby Talcott. Colonel. Thank you so much for being here.
And just in tonight, we have an update from the State Department for Americans who are trying to get out of Israel. The airspace has been closed. This conflict has shut down that airspace, and it's been closed now for days.
My next source is Israel's Ambassador to the United States. We'll get the latest, ahead.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just in tonight. The United States embassy, in Israel, says it has, quote, "No announcement about assisting private U.S. citizens" out of the country at this time.
The reason that is important is because earlier today, we heard from the United States Ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, who said, the United States is working to arrange evacuation flights and cruise ship departures for any Americans who want to leave Israel.
The Embassy notes that Israel's airspace remains closed to commercial and charter flights, at this time. Our sources are telling us that the U.S. has evacuated some embassy personnel, and their family, out of Israel, on military aircraft. These are voluntary departures, we're told. A full evacuation of the U.S. Embassy has not been ordered.
Tonight, my source is Israel's Ambassador to the United States, Yechiel Leiter.
And it's great to have you here, sir. Can you just clarify what is going on with the embassy? Is the United States trying to move people out of there? Or what does that look like tonight?
YECHIEL LEITER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: I'm the Ambassador from Israel to Washington. I'm not sure exactly what's going on in our -- the U.S. Embassy, you know.
COLLINS: But you haven't coordinated with Governor -- former Governor Huckabee--
LEITER: We talk -- we talk--
COLLINS: --Ambassador Huckabee?
LEITER: We talk quite often. We're good friends.
Look, there are an awful lot of people that are in transit all the time, between Israel and the United States. So, I think they're probably trying to facilitate departure.
I know that the Jordanians and the Egyptians have been very helpful in offering their services to cross-border transportation. We hope that's going to take place. We hope the war will be over soon, so people will be able to move again by flight.
COLLINS: Well, in terms of what this war looks like, at this hour, does Israel believe that ultimately the United States is going to get involved here?
LEITER: Israel is concerned with what Israel has to do.
We've got an existential threat to our country. This war started many, many years ago. It intensified on October 7th, when Hamas, the proxy of Iran, stormed our country, and slaughtered 1,200 people. It continued when Hezbollah, another proxy of Iran, sent missiles flying down onto our civilians.
And now, we're after the head of the snake. We're going to pursue this war until we achieve victory, which means that Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: So, it's not clear, to Israel yet, what the United States is going to do here, whether President Trump has agreed to get involved.
LEITER: We're confident in President Trump. The Prime Minister and the President have a great relationship, for many years. They've met twice. They speak daily. And whatever President Trump decides is going to be good for the United States, it's going to be good for the world.
COLLINS: Is Israel prepared to act if the United States does not get involved?
LEITER: We've coordinated. We've spoken. The President said clearly, Friday morning, the day after we initiated the attack, that he was informed that he knew about our plans. And we're going to continue in the collaboration.
Look, we've appealed to the United States for a defensive posture. And the United States, under President Trump, Congress, the American people, have sent us defensive missile systems, the THAADs, the Aegis, and they've saved the lives of hundreds, maybe thousands of people, when these missiles come careening into our population centers. There's another--
COLLINS: Yes.
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LEITER: There's another aspect of our collaboration, and that's our pilots flying American planes, the F-35s. There's a great relationship between our pilots and your products.
COLLINS: But in terms of what Israel can do, without the United States, U.S. pilots, U.S. aircraft going in and striking Iranian nuclear capabilities.
You and I spoke, on Friday, about what Israel's capabilities are. I just want to let everyone listen to what you told me then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But to actually destroy or dismantle that nuclear program, does Israel need the United States' help to do so?
LEITER: We believe that we could implement extensive damage to the nuclear infrastructure, where we won't know precisely how much, until we continue the campaign, complete the campaign. Ask me that question in four or five days, and I'll have a better assessment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It has been--
LEITER: That was -- that was a pretty good interview, wasn't it?
COLLINS: It has now been five days, and you're back.
LEITER: Yes.
COLLINS: What has Israel concluded, now that you've looked at that? Can you finish this, should the United States not join in?
LEITER: You may have to ask me back here in another four or five days.
But let me say this. We achieved air superiority over Iran, in three days. We accomplished in three days what Russia has not accomplished in Ukraine in three years. So, we have a few tricks up our sleeve. If we have to pursue this and prosecute this by ourselves, we're going to know what to do. We're not going to allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. It's that simple.
COLLINS: When the President says, We have air superiority over Iran, is he talking about Israel or the United States?
LEITER: Well, right now, we're flying over Iran, but you might -- you might be talking--
COLLINS: And they're not U.S. pilots?
LEITER: No. No U.S. -- no U.S. pilots flying over Iran, as far as I know. But he's probably talking about the Lockheed Martins and the F- 35s that we're flying.
COLLINS: Can I ask you about what -- since you do have tricks up your sleeve, as you said. Israel's obviously studied what it would take to destroy this nuclear plant. I'm not going to ask you to lay that out exactly. But do you believe it would require multiple strikes to actually be able to render that facility inoperative?
LEITER: Our intel has been pretty good up until now. And we're confident that not only Fordow, but all the installations, that Iran has built, to pursue nuclear weapons and ballistic missile production.
Let's not be confused here. There are ballistic missiles coming into Israel now. They're not carrying nuclear warheads. I mean, these things are the size of a semi-trailer packed with TNT, and they come cruising out of the sky and create incredible damage. That production capacity has to be eliminated as well. It's very simple. They cannot have the weapons that can destroy Israel, which they claim and which they want to do, every day.
COLLINS: So, it's not clear if it would require multiple strikes?
LEITER: It might require multiple strikes.
COLLINS: OK.
LEITER: It might require something else. It might require one of our surprises. But what's clear is we're going to pursue the route it takes, whatever it takes, to ensure that the mullahs who scream, Death to America, Death to Israel, every day in the square of Tehran, are not successful.
COLLINS: The President is leaving open the door to a diplomatic solution, still. I mean, it seems like a very small door. But he was saying today, the Iranians wanted to come to the White House.
What would Israel have to say, if Iranian officials were at the White House, negotiating with the President?
LEITER: One of the great things about President Trump, and working with his administration, is that he means what he says, he says what he means. And if he says that he's going to negotiate, after he said 15 times, since he came into office, that Iran will not have a nuclear weapon? Then negotiations will end, without a nuclear weapon in the hands of the mullahs. It's that simple.
COLLINS: Ambassador, we'll see you in a few days to follow up on that. Thank you for-- LEITER: I look forward, Kaitlan. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you for your time tonight.
Up next. That interview that you saw, here last night, between Tucker Carlson and Senator Ted Cruz has laid bare, really, a divide that we are seeing between some of the President's supporters, when it comes to whether or not the United States should strike Iran. I asked the President if he had seen that clip. We'll tell you what his response was, next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is weighing in on the divide, amongst some of his most loyal supporters, when it comes to U.S. military action against Iran. The fight has been playing out amongst staunch allies, like the space-off that we have seen today, between Republican Senator Ted Cruz, and Tucker Carlson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Where does -- where does my support for Israel come from? Number one, because biblically, we are commanded to support Israel. But number two--
TUCKER CARLSON, AMERICAN COMMENTATOR, HOST, "THE TUCKER CARLSON SHOW": Well, hold on. Hold on. No, no, no--
CRUZ: No. No, I'm not holding on.
CARLSON: Hold on. You're a senator, and now you're throwing out theology. And I am a Christian, and I am allowed to weigh in on this. We are commanded, as Christians, to support the Government of Israel?
CRUZ: We are commanded to support Israel. And we are told--
CARLSON: What does that mean, Israel?
CRUZ: We're told those who bless Israel will be blessed.
CARLSON: But what -- hold on. Define Israel. This is important. Are you kidding?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I asked the President, in the Oval Office today, if he had seen that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Have you seen the Tucker Carlson-Senator Ted Cruz interview? It seems like this issue on whether or not the United States should strike is kind of dividing a lot of your supporters. TRUMP: No, my supporters are for me. My supporters are America First. They make America great again. My supporters don't want to see Iran have a nuclear weapon.
[21:35:00]
Tucker is a nice guy. He called and apologized the other day, because he thought he said things that were a little bit too strong, and I appreciated that.
And Ted Cruz is a nice guy. I mean, he's been with me for a long time. I'd say, once the race was over, he's been with me ever since, right?
But, very simple. If they think that it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Republican senator, Bernie Moreno of Ohio.
Was that exchange between Tucker and Ted Cruz getting texted around in a lot of Republican senator group chats today? I would imagine, yes?
SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): Probably could confirm that that's a yes.
COLLINS: I mean, what did you make of that? Because it is a real divide, though. Maybe not on, what the Bible says about Israel. But on regime change and striking Iran has been a pretty big divide that's coming out of -- out of the MAGA supporters.
MORENO: Well, just to be clear, obviously, I haven't had two and a half hours to watch the entire interview, so watched a few clips, right? I've been busy.
COLLINS: You -- it's quite something.
MORENO: But look, ultimately, the Republican Party is very united.
The reality is, President Trump ran a campaign of peace and stability around the world, and that's what he's going to do. He certainly isn't somebody who wants to start an endless war. He's been very consistent his whole life that he doesn't believe that America should intervene in the foreign affairs of other governments.
But it's a red line for President Trump to say, Hey, look, a nuclear- powered Iran would be an existential threat, not just to Israel, but the entire Middle East order, and to America, and we cannot allow them to have a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: So, are you personally comfortable with the U.S. striking Iran?
MORENO: I'm personally comfortable that we have a Commander-in-Chief that knows that he needs to strike the right balance, that it's not about sucking us into another endless conflict, and that ultimately, what he wants is peace and stability around the world, and an Iran that can be prosperous, part of the Western world, but cannot have a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: But do you think a U.S. strike is needed to achieve that moment?
MORENO: Look, I'm not privy to every single piece of intelligence. The good news is I have a Commander-in-Chief that we should all be rallying around, and say, Hey, look, he knows exactly what needs to do. He's going to strike the right balance. And I have total faith in his abilities to make the right decision.
COLLINS: Well, I just wonder where you stand on this. Because we're hearing from some of your colleagues, like Senator Josh Hawley, who said he spoke to the President, last night, and he said that he would not be comfortable if the United States took offensive action against Iran, a concern that you don't know where it goes next, essentially, is what he articulated.
MORENO: Well, he's right about that. This -- we do -- we do not want to escalate this conflict.
President Trump's been clear about this. It's in the hands of Iran. If they could stop their enrichment capabilities, and not have a nuclear weapon, we're going to have a peace and stable Middle East.
And by the way, it's a lot to gain for Iran. They've been isolated from the Western world for a long time. So, if they had -- their leaders want to advocate for their people and be part of the Western world? They can do that.
COLLINS: Do you believe that if there is a strike on Iran, that is there are -- is there new intelligence that has showed why that would be justified now? I mean, obviously, it doesn't seem that their nuclear program has changed in the last six months or so. Why now is this the time?
MORENO: Well, Senator Rubio laid it out pretty -- I'm sorry. Secretary Rubio laid it out pretty well today. When you're a 90 percent nuclear power, you are, in effect, a nuclear power.
And you can imagine how destabilizing it would be to have Iran have a nuclear weapon or enrichment capabilities. First of all, they don't even need it. Let's be honest about that. They're swimming in oil. They're swimming in natural gas. They don't need it to power their civilian uses. They're using it only to do what they said they're going to do, which is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and then come after America next.
COLLINS: Yes. And of course, I know the Senate is getting a briefing on Monday, I believe, on this. We'll see if you learn anything from there.
Meanwhile, also on Capitol Hill, the Senate is working on passing the President's signature legislation, right now, known as the big, beautiful bill, is as it's being called by Republicans. Senator Josh Hawley said today that the President told him he was surprised by changes the Senate has made to this.
This is what Senator Hawley had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I walked through him, and he said, Oh, well, that's very surprising. He said, I'm surprised that they made all these changes and -- to the degree they did. I said, I am too.
He was real clear to Senate Republicans, just two weeks ago, Don't touch anything else on Medicaid. Take the House framework, tweak it if you need to, but do not do anything else. And this Senate framework is really, it's -- it departs from his framework, big time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you agree with Senator Hawley that it departs from what the President wanted to see here?
MORENO: I haven't had a conversation with the President about it.
What I do know is that we need to strengthen Medicaid and make sure we preserve it for the people who actually use it. Not for able-bodied adults that are taking advantage of it. Not to have some sort of a state system that launders money to drawdown more federal funds. These provider taxes is crystal clear. There's uniform consensus that these state provider taxes are a total fraud. So, look, we've allowed it to happen for a long time. We have to be very careful.
[21:40:00]
What I talk to my colleagues about is that every one of these decisions has a human being behind it, a family behind it, people that depend on these programs. And what we have to do is recognize that what the voters asked us to do on November 5th is put the interests of American citizens first and foremost.
COLLINS: Yes, but what he's worried is that a lower provider tax rate, he -- Senator Hawley says will deplete resources for rural hospitals. Is that a concern you have with where the Senate bill is, as it stands right now?
MORENO: No, because there's other ways to help rural hospitals. We can -- we can have a targeted approach towards rural hospitals.
We can make certain that, by the way, states who have abdicated their responsibility to share in their cost of Medicaid, step up and do their part as well. As you know, these states use this money for other purposes. They're drawing down federal funds, but not all of it goes into health care. They use it for all kinds of other shenanigans. And they--
COLLINS: But a lot of it goes into health care. I mean--
MORENO: But not the -- not all of it. So we can take that money and direct it better. We also have to be more efficient, use technology, get illegals off of Medicaid. Some of these states are using it to cover illegal migrants' health care. That's something that would be categorically insane, in any other country, the idea that we would take care of the health care of other citizens.
COLLINS: But if you do that, does that achieve the billion -- I mean, does that measure up to the billions of dollars more that potential Medicaid cuts that the Senate version of this bill is seeking? Because what Senator Hawley is saying is -- he's not articulating that. He's saying, he's worried it's going to kick his constituents, and they're not going to have any health insurance.
MORENO: Well, we're not going to let that happen. But just to be crystal--
COLLINS: But how do you guarantee that, I guess, is my question.
MORENO: But here -- let's just be crystal clear about saying, really, really important. If you look at the budget that we have proposed, that hopefully we'll get across the finish line, and get it signed by July 4th, we actually add $200 billion to Medicaid spending, over the next 10 years.
We spend more over the next 10 years on Medicaid with the current budget that we're proposing than what we spend today. So, we're increasing the funding. We're taking illegals off. We're putting a path for able-bodied adults to enter the workforce, to be part of a productive labor force, by the way, could be volunteering, taking care of relatives, et cetera.
COLLINS: What is the -- I mean, I think there's questions about that. But in terms of what this ultimately looks like. Susie Wiles, the Chief of Staff, was on Capitol Hill today. There was reporting that she said that y'all should pass this next week. Is that true?
MORENO: We need to. Because if we get--
COLLINS: But did she say next week?
MORENO: I don't know what exactly the words that came out of her mouth, right?
But what I'll say, it comes out of my mouth, is that we should get this bill on the floor by the end of next week. Pass it whatever it takes. The Democrats can keep us there, 24/7, if they want, until Saturday, Sunday, Monday. We got to get this bill to the House on Monday or Tuesday, so they can vote on it, so that July 3rd, President Trump can sign it.
Because look, here's what we're doing. We're making an historic investment in the nation's air traffic control system. We're adding a child tax credit to help middle-class Americans. We're providing these MAGA accounts, which is investing in children, American citizens. We're preventing a $4 trillion tax increase. We're funding our border, deportation, the military. We're getting rid of the debt ceiling conversations that we're not facing the prospect of a government shutdown.
This bill does great things. I'm really proud of the work that the House and the Senate has done. And look, it's not perfect, because not everybody agrees on exactly what needs to be done. But it's a really, really great bill.
COLLINS: We'll see if it gets passed.
Senator Moreno, thank you for your time here tonight.
MORENO: Yes, thanks.
COLLINS: Really appreciate it.
Up next here on THE SOURCE. The Defense Secretary today, was on Capitol Hill, speaking of. He was asked if he had been given the President -- if he had given the President, options, for a strike in the Middle East. What we heard from the Pentagon, next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, sources are telling CNN, the President has been reviewing attack plans for Iran, but is holding off so far to see whether or not the country is willing to step back from its nuclear program. There's no indication they will.
But today, on Capitol Hill, Democratic senators were grilling the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, and also pressing him for answers on what those plans could look like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): My question for you is whether you have been asked actively to provide options for the President, regarding a strike in the Middle East.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: If I had or I had not, I wouldn't disclose that in this forum, Senator. My job, our job, Chairman and I, at all times, is to make sure we -- the President, has options, and is informed of what those options might be, and what the ramifications of those options would be.
SHAHEEN: I appreciate.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Have you commissioned any day-after planning? So, any force protection, any use of ground troops in Iran, any cost assessments? Because I don't think we doubt what we can do, as a country, in the attack. It's the day-after with Iraq and Afghanistan that so many of us have learned to be so deeply concerned about. Have you authorized day-after planning?
HEGSETH: As I've said, we have plans for everything, Senator.
They should have made a deal. President Trump's word means something. The world understands that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now, two deeply-sourced reporters from The New York Times.
David Sanger is back.
And Zolan Kanno-Youngs.
And it's great to have you here, both.
And Zolan, when it comes to what the White House is looking like, what we keep hearing is all options are on the table. But what are you hearing about what those options realistically look like, what the President is choosing from here.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. So, I mean, for something like this, there really isn't a decision until the final decision, right? And we know that the President entered even the G7 Summit, that you and I were at, weighing this decision.
[21:50:00]
The big question here is whether the President would decide to aid Israel with those 30,000-pound bunker-busting bombs, the only bombs that actually have the capability to reach the Iran -- Iran's nuclear facilities that are buried deep under the ground, and national security officials say have the capability, to destroy those nuclear facilities.
That's the big option here. Does he do that or continue to wait this out? We know that just for the past couple of weeks, he put up statements, saying that he actually wanted Iran to come to the negotiating table too. Does he continue to assist Israel, with backup military standards, like refueling and what have you?
But these are the big questions that we have that he's been weighing the past couple days here.
COLLINS: Yes. And I just learned from Colonel Cedric Leighton, which I didn't realize, this one bomb that they're considering has actually never been used in combat.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.
COLLINS: It's been tested, but it's never actually been used on the battlefield.
And David, on that point. We have just confirmed that the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, is set to meet with the U.K. Foreign Secretary, tomorrow. It's scheduled to happen, right now, at 02:00 p.m., at the White House.
And I want to ask you about something in terms of what this could look like, because there is a joint U.K.-U.S. base. It's on a remote island in the Indian Ocean. I think we have a map of it that we can show people, the Diego Garcia.
DAVID SANGER, WHITE HOUSE & NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right.
COLLINS: The U.S. could use that to fly those B-2s, the bombers, to Iran. But does that require permission from the British prime minister? What does that look like, in terms of how involved Europe could get here, in terms of how they're looking at this?
SANGER: Well, they could use Diego Garcia, but they don't need to use Diego Garcia.
The B-2 is based in Missouri. They've got lots of refueling that's already been forward-deployed to Europe, some of it yesterday. They could fly this right out of Missouri, refuel it on the way, go over the Fordow site, which is the mountain that Zolan was referring to, and drop these. The B-2 can hold two of them, astoundingly.
But this would have to be a repeat exercise. It's not like you do it with one weapon or two. You go, you hit it, you go down through that hole, you see how well it did. You then come in and you hit it a second time, going down the precise second hole.
But I think the bigger issue for this, Kaitlan, is the one you played Elissa Slotkin, discussing at the end of that clip, which is -- it's one thing to go do the attack. It will either work or it won't. There's some risk, obviously. You could lose a B-2, and so forth, over Iran. That would be -- you know, would bring back memories of what happened during the Iran hostage rescue operation, during the Carter administration.
But the bigger risk is, how do you handle the aftermath? And that's where I think the administration has really got to stop and think this through. Because what it may do is drive the Iranian nuclear program underground, and they could be back in a few years with a program that is not reported to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Zolan, I think that's a good point, in terms of the President seeming a little more cautious today, in terms of how he was talking about this. He had some pretty bellicose language, in recent days about his view of this. But it is questions like that, that he is weighing here. It's not just as simple as a one-strike-and-done. We don't know actually what this could entail.
KANNO-YOUNGS: And those questions, and whether or not this would be essentially a one-off, or actually thrust the U.S. into this conflict for a prolonged period, that's also what's fueling a lot of the pressure that we're seeing, in the fractures in the President's own party on this.
You have -- I saw you play Tucker Carlson and the Ted Cruz interview earlier. That crystallizes this debate, right now, and the pressure a president, who campaigned on getting America out of forever wars, is facing at this point.
COLLINS: Yes, it's a great point.
Zolan Kanno-Youngs. David Sanger. Great to have you both here.
Up next. Big stories you might have missed today, including that stunning verdict in the murder trial that ended in a mistrial the first time.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Before we go, three things that you might have missed on this busy Wednesday.
Karen Read was acquitted, in that Massachusetts court, of murdering her police officer boyfriend. She was found guilty of drunk-driving. She'll serve one-year probation. A sea of her supporters, outside, erupted in cheers as she left court. This all comes, less than a year, after jurors in her first trial failed to reach a verdict.
Also, in a six-three decision today, the Supreme Court upheld Tennessee's ban on gender-affirming care for transgender minors. The state's law bans hormone therapy and puberty blockers, and imposes civil penalties for doctors who violate the prohibitions.
The Attorney General in Tennessee described the outcome as a, quote, Commonsense win.
While an attorney for the minors who were challenging the law, said the ruling was a devastating loss for transgender people, our families and everyone who cares about the Constitution.
And finally, back at the White House today, the President weighed in on his options on the Middle East. But he was also on hand, this morning, to watch two new flag poles going up on the North and South lawns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What gave you the idea to do this?
[22:00:00]
TRUMP: I've had it for a long time. In the first term, I had it, but, you know, you guys were after me. I said -- I said, I had to focus. I was -- I was the hunted. And now, I'm the hunter. There's a big difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was quite a moment today.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
