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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Marathon Senate Voting Session Underway On Trump Bill; Police: Shooter Intentionally Set Fire To Ambush Firefighters; Satellite Shows New Activity At Iran's Fordow Nuclear Site. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 30, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we see, the firefighters still out here, fighting this fire. We just watched, as they finished their shift, and more will be coming. This fire, still active. Firefighters, despite all of these news, still coming to the scene here, to fight those active blazes.
We have also some more details that I want to share with you on Roley. One of the perverse details of the story is that he himself wanted to be a firefighter, his grandfather telling CNN, that he was still actively pursuing that profession.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: So much tragedy there in Coeur d'Alene.
Julia Vargas Jones, thank you very much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: A key Republican senator says he won't seek reelection, and also won't vote yes on President Trump's signature domestic policy agenda bill. While Elon Musk is threatening those who do.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, the Senate has now been voting for about 11 and a half hours, on amendments to President Trump's massive spending plan. Though, so far, not a single one of those amendments has passed, and it remains unchanged at this hour.
Republicans spent the day, racing to get this bill to the President's desk, as it remains to be seen when a final vote will happen, and Capitol Hill is bracing for what could be a very long night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): It's been a long debate. I know people are weary. But at the end of the day, we want to get this done, so this country is safer and stronger and more prosperous, not only for today, but for future generations of Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: We're going to get a live report, from the halls of Congress, in just a moment, where Republicans there can only afford to lose three votes in the Senate.
So far, at least two Republican lawmakers are a no, including Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Thom Tillis of North Carolina who announced that he won't seek reelection, after delivering this scathing speech on the Senate floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): It is inescapable that this bill, in its current form, will betray the very promise that Donald J. Trump made in the Oval Office.
All right, so what do I tell 663,000 people, in two years, or three years, when President Trump breaks his promise by pushing them off of Medicaid, because the funding is not there?
The effect of this bill is to break a promise.
But I'm telling the President that, you have been misinformed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Asked about those comments, at the White House press briefing, this afternoon, Karoline Leavitt said that Senator Tillis is, quote, Just wrong, and that the President has been working closely with top Republican leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has been working hand-in-hand with Senate Majority Leader Thune, and also our House Republican leader, or -- the Speaker of the House, I'm sorry, Mike Johnson, both of whom will be at the White House today to meet with the President, yet again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We heard from a spokesperson for Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, right after that, who said that he did not have any meetings scheduled with President Trump at the White House today. That led the White House to clarify that the President is in touch with those Republican leaders by phone.
And as for the heart of what Senator Tillis is saying here, and his criticism, including that the President is being misinformed by his advisers. Here's what the President said just last week, about this bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're cutting $1.7 trillion in this bill, and you're not going to feel any of it. And your Medicaid is left alone. It's left the same. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Regardless of whether you agree with adding things, like work requirements for Medicaid, as this bill does, Medicaid would not technically be, quote, "Left the same."
The Senate version would reduce federal support for that program by about $930 billion, over a decade. That's according to the Congressional Budget Office, which also projects 11.8 million more people would be left without health insurance.
When Senator Tillis is speaking about broken promises, he's talking about all the times the President made comments like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Medicaid, we're not going to do anything with that.
Medicare and Medicaid, none of that stuff is going to be touched.
We're not cutting Medicaid.
We're not changing Medicaid.
Here's what I want on Medicaid. We're not touching anything.
Just as I promised, there will be no cuts.
It won't be, Read my lips, anymore. We're not going to touch it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And as Senator Tillis says, he will be exiting the political fray by not running for reelection. Elon Musk is getting back into it, and delivered his starkest political threat that we've seen, where he is taking aim at Republicans in Congress.
[21:05:00]
He posted this earlier, saying: Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame. And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.
My congressional source to start us off tonight is Massachusetts Democratic senator, Elizabeth Warren.
And it's great to have you here, Senator.
Because obviously, voting has been going on for nearly 12 hours now--
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Yes.
COLLINS: --on Capitol Hill, where you are. How much longer do you expect this to go tonight? WARREN: You know, it's all in the hands of the Republicans. Have they cut a deal?
Because right now, it's not just the number of votes. Democrats have got plenty of amendments. The Republicans are stretching them out. So, every vote, instead of being 10-minute votes, or 15-minute votes, like we often do in vote-a-ramas, the vote on Planned Parenthood ran for an hour, that they kept it open. And we all presume, that's because they are all behind closed doors, trying to figure out how they get the votes, to get this thing through.
COLLINS: So, you think that they're also helping stretch this out, because they don't have the votes for a final passage, right now?
WARREN: Well, why else would they be stretching it out? If they actually have their votes, why wouldn't they be on the floor, right now, rushing us through our amendments, and then going to the vote?
Look, the bottom line stays the same. When you read the bill? And the Democrats insisted that the bill be read aloud. It's nearly a trillion dollars in cuts to Medicaid.
And that means little tiny babies, who run up a million dollars' worth of medical bills in their first month of life? That's cuts that actually are there, right now, that Medicaid program to help them. Your neighbor who got in a car accident, and now needs a wheelchair, and a home health aide. Cuts to Medicaid will affect your neighbor.
And the latest projection is we know that half of the people, who are in nursing homes, are counting on Medicaid to actually pay the bills. So, that what we're talking about here is real people, millions of people, who are going to be hurt by this, and ultimately, everybody in this country. Best estimate is about 350 hospitals will actually close, because they can't manage uncompensated care, when people come through the door and they don't have Medicaid, and they don't have any money.
One out of four nursing homes is estimated to close. Because those seniors, people with Alzheimer's, people who need care and don't have any money to cover it? What's going to happen to those folks? And what's going to happen to the nursing homes that right now are already running on tiny, little profit margins?
So, the impact is going to be on -- the estimate is about 17 million people directly, who lose care, but it's going to hit everybody in this country.
COLLINS: Yes.
WARREN: When those hospitals close, they close for everyone. When those nursing homes close, they close for everyone.
COLLINS: Well, and I know they're trying to add an amendment to shore up support, because some Republicans are concerned about just that.
But I wonder what went through your mind, when you listened to Republican Senator Tillis' speech yesterday, where he was saying that he's worried some 600,000 people in his State of North Carolina would lose their insurance.
He said he believed the President was being misinformed. Is that what you believe is happening here?
WARREN: Look, I don't know why the disconnect is there. But you showed us the evidence. President Trump said over, and over, and over, and over, and recently, that he is not going to cut Medicaid. And this bill cuts Medicaid, and it doesn't cut it a little bit.
This bill cuts Medicaid, literally for about 17 million Americans, and takes a trillion dollars out of our health care system. And our hospitals, our nursing homes, are telling us, they just can't survive if you pull that money out. And all of this is just so that the Republicans can do a tax giveaway to a handful of billionaires and billionaire corporations.
I think that Senator Tillis is exactly right. He said, You got to honor your promise here, and your promise is not to cut Medicaid.
Democrats have offered amendment after amendment, today, to try to protect Medicaid. Lisa Blunt Rochester offered an amendment that just said, I tell you what, don't cut Medicaid for brand-new mamas and their babies. Republicans voted it down, across the board.
Over and over, Republicans have said, when confronted directly with the amendments, that they're willing to vote to cut Medicaid. The President needs to hear that, and call this bill back in, to say, this bill should not pass.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: Can I ask you about what the other side is saying, which is that if Democrats don't vote for this, that you're going to pay the political consequences.
Because you're voting to -- it wouldn't be extending the tax cuts that the President enacted, last time he was in office. And therefore, there would be a tax increase for Americans. The nonpartisan tax policy, Senator said that if -- it would mean 64 percent of households would get some sort of tax increase, should this bill not pass to do so.
What is your response to that?
WARREN: Look, nobody in America, except the billionaires, want to see the tax cuts for the billionaires and the billionaire corporations. And that's all the Democrats are saying.
Democrats are saying, Fine. You want to cut taxes for middle-class families? Man, we are all in. You want to find ways to cut taxes for small businesses? Count us in. But you want to do trillions of dollars of giveaways that go to billionaires and billionaire corporations. Why? So, Jeff Bezos can throw a second to $50 million wedding? No, we don't want any part of that. And here's the deal. Democrats don't want any part of that, and neither do the American people. Democrats, Independents, and Republicans, are opposed to these tax giveaways for billionaires and billionaire corporations. Republicans are the ones who are going to pay a price for that, come November 2026.
COLLINS: Have Democrats done enough, in your view, to talk about what's in this bill? I mean, when you look at the polling, it's underwater with voters, even in a Fox News poll. But do you think that your party has done enough to tell people what is in here, and what this is going to do to them?
WARREN: So, do remember, what was in the bill kept sliding around, so it made it pretty hard to talk about it. But here's the deal. Once people hear about what's in the bill, they don't like it. The polling just consistently shows, the more people who hear about the bill, the more underwater it is.
And understand this. If the Republicans manage to pass this ugly mess? Americans are going to hear about it. We're trying to make sure everybody hears about it before the vote.
But we're going to make sure that everybody hears about every Republican, who voted to take away health care from millions of Americans, so that billionaires could get tax handouts, and they voted to run up the national deficit by another $3.5 trillion. You better believe, by November 2026, we're going to make sure everybody in America has heard about that.
COLLINS: If the bill is that unpopular, why do you -- do you think it will ultimately pass, still? And what does that say, if it does?
WARREN: You'd have to ask a Republican whether or not it's going to pass.
Because, I have to say, one of the things that we put out is a chart that shows how many people are going to lose their health care, state by state by state. And you heard Senator Tillis, quoting that last night, when he was saying, What am I going to say to 600,000 people in North Carolina that he was elected to represent?
It's clear that in every state, there are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, who are going to lose access to health care. In every state, nursing homes that will close and hospitals that will close. How a Republican, or a Democrat, or an Independent, could vote for that is beyond belief.
All I can figure out is the Republicans are truly spineless. And if Donald Trump has told them to vote for it, then by golly, the only thing they seem to be able to do is bow low to Donald Trump, and do whatever he says. But there is no way that they vote for that, because they think it is good for the people who elected them.
COLLINS: This -- we're watching the Senate floor, right now. We don't have any idea of when this is going to end, or when a final vote could happen. I want you to listen, though, to what your colleague, your Democratic colleague, John Fetterman, had to say about this vote-a-rama process, as it's known.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Oh my god, I just want to go home. I've already -- my -- I've missed our entire trip to the beach. My family is going to be back before we -- on that, so.
And again, I'm going to vote, no. There's no drama. The votes are going to go. In fact, the only interesting votes are going to be on the margin, whether that's Collins or Johnson and those. But all the Democrats, we all know how that's going to go. And I think -- I don't think it's really helpful to put people here till some ungodly hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What's your reaction to that, Senator?
WARREN: Look, we're going to stay, and we're going to stay, and we're going to keep voting as long as the Republicans keep this vote open on this bill. And that's what we all will do.
[21:15:00]
All 47 Democrats are entirely committed to stay. Because we're going to be here, to vote to protect the people who will be losing their health care, and to vote against big giveaways to billionaires, and billionaire corporations, and to vote against raising the national debt, just so that Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg can suck down more tax giveaways. We're going to do that vote--
COLLINS: Did you--
WARREN: --forever and as long as it takes.
COLLINS: Did you ever think that you and Elon Musk would find yourself on the same side, advocating against a bill?
WARREN: What can I say? Hell has frozen over a second time. Look, but Elon Musk is right about this. He's got it exactly right. The idea of borrowing $3.5 trillion on the nation's credit card, in order to be able to give tax breaks to the likes of Elon Musk, and Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg, is financially nuts.
It's terrible for our country, because it's going to drive up the cost of borrowing for all businesses, all around the country. It's going to be bad for our economy. And it also means that we're going to be saddling our children, and our grandchildren and, shoot, our grandchildren's children, to pay off those debts.
No one is clamoring for that, except a handful of billionaires who made big contributions to Donald Trump's inauguration, and got to settle themselves in the front row. What the American people want to see is those billionaires, and billionaire corporations, make them pay just their fair share. It is not right that Jeff Bezos pays taxes at a lower rate than a Boston public school teacher. Make those guys pay just a fair share.
And, for goodness sakes, do not borrow money, and run this nation further into debt, so that those billionaires get even richer. That makes no damn sense.
COLLINS: Can I ask you, before we go? We were in the briefing today, and the White House pulled up this handwritten note that the President sent to Fed chair, Jay Powell. I believe we have a picture of it. You can see the President's handwriting on it, where he basically says, as usual, he's too late, he needs to cut interest rates.
I wonder what you think the Fed chair did when he got this note from -- from the handwritten -- the handwritten note from the President, telling him he needs to cut interest rates.
WARREN: Basically, in his own very polite, very understated way, Jay Powell has already told the President of the United States, what's needed, in order to get interest rates down. And that is, for Donald Trump to stop the chaos that he's injecting into this economy.
When Donald Trump says tariffs on, tariffs off, red light, green light, you're going to have 10 percent, 50 percent over there, a 126 percent over here? There's no business in this country that can invest under those circumstances.
And, we saw the latest Fed data showing inflation starting to tick up, unemployment starting to tick up, and GDP growth shrinking. And we just saw today that actual GDP has shrunk in the last quarter. All are bad economic signs, and they are all the results of Donald Trump creating chaos in the economic system. You've got to admit, Joe Biden handed over a good economy to Donald Trump. He's been there a 162 days. He's turned it into chaos.
And Jay Powell himself said that the reason he didn't lower interest rates, back in February, was because of the chaos that Trump was creating around tariffs. And he's still saying--
COLLINS: Yes.
WARREN: --until things settle down, he can't bring those interest rates down. There is one human being in the United States, who's causing interest rates to stay high, and his name is Donald J. Trump.
COLLINS: And he certainly would disagree with that. We'll see what the Fed chair does.
WARREN: It's what he does (ph).
COLLINS: Senator Elizabeth Warren, going to be a long night on Capitol Hill. Thank you for taking some time to come over to the camera and join us.
WARREN: You bet.
COLLINS: Coming up here. We're going to get reaction from our top political insiders on what is happening on Capitol Hill tonight, and where it's going. It also includes billions of dollars for ICE that could ramp up detentions at places like the so-called Alligator Alcatraz, that is in Florida. What Tom Homan said to me, at the White House today, about that, next.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: You're getting a live look at the Senate floor, right now, as lawmakers are pushing through a marathon vote-a-rama, as it's known, for President Trump's megabill.
Senators have now spent about 12 hours, voting, on proposed changes to the bill. None of them have actually passed yet, but we'll see if any of them do, and if we get to a final vote, at some point tonight.
The bill would then have to head back over to the House, after it gets to the Senate, though, where the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, will then face the daunting task of getting it to the President's desk, they are hoping, by the end of this week.
I want to get straight to CNN's Lauren Fox, who's been on Capitol Hill, all day long, has been following all this very closely for over 12 hours now.
Lauren, I think there's a real question, what is the mood like tonight, right there on the Hill? How are people feeling about where this is going?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, I think a lot of lawmakers, at this point, just aren't sure when this is going to end.
[21:25:00]
You have Democrats arguing that they believe Republicans are slow- walking this process, because, behind closed doors, there's a lot of horse trading that has to happen. There's a lot of concern that perhaps the votes aren't there on the Republican side.
Meanwhile, you have Republicans who are arguing that this is really just part of the technical process. They are still waiting for some key decisions from the Senate parliamentarian, who decides whether or not provisions actually comply with Senate rules. They also are waiting for some CBO scores.
So, there's really a whole confluence of issues happening, right now. But lawmakers are on their 20th amendment vote. Like you mentioned, nothing has passed yet.
And there are some really important votes yet to take place, on the Republican side, that could have a big impact on this final bill, and the final vote count on this bill. One of those is a proposal by Senator Rick Scott that potentially could cut Medicaid even more significantly. Obviously, that's something that Senator Susan Collins, Senator Lisa Murkowski, have both expressed concerns about moving forward.
So, there is a huge question mark, right now, on what exactly this bill looks like, at the end of the process. We do not know the answer to that. And whether or not John Thune, the Republican leader, is going to have the votes he needs.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: All right. Lauren Fox, keep us updated, as you're drinking a lot of coffee, overnight tonight.
My political sources at the table are:
Ashley Allison, White House senior policy adviser under President Obama.
And Chris Sununu, who is the former Republican governor of New Hampshire.
Governor, there were some questions about whether or not you were going to run for the Senate, at one point. If you were sitting there, on Capitol Hill, looking at this bill, how would you feel about what it looks like? Do you think you'd be able to sell it to people?
CHRIS SUNUNU, (R) FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: Well, first, look, let's -- why are they calling it a vote-a-rama? There's nothing fun about what we saw right there.
COLLINS: Yes, vote-a-rama sounds much more fun than this process.
SUNUNU: Those people look sad and depressed, and that's exactly why I'm not going to Capitol Hill. That was pathetic.
So look, I understand and appreciate folks' concern. I think, my number one message is, the Republicans have failed on the messaging, right?
So, you have Senator Warren, and the guest you just had on, really eliciting that. People are going to get thrown out of their nursing homes, and that people are going to be thrown off health care, and all this kind of fearmongering.
Will there be a major shift in people from -- able-bodied working adults, from expanded Medicaid to private health insurance? Yes, that's actually a really good thing, potentially, and it saves a lot of money.
And the fact that she's trying to act the fiscal conservative, she's joining with Elon Musk in opposing this? No, no, no, no, no, you guys are diametrically opposed in why you want this bill to fail.
But the bill is going to pass, and it's just the first step. Then it has to go back to the House, and then the House will decide whether they move forward.
The last thing is this bill is critical for Trump, not just in what it does, but what it allows him to do. It's the first domino, major piece of legislation, where, if this doesn't go, potentially, his entire legislative agenda is up in the air.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a good point in terms of, we're not kind of in a moment of, is this going to pass? The White House feels very confident that it will. It's more of a question of, how long could it take to pass, and what are the consequences of that.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR POLICY ADVISER, NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: Well, first, I just want to say that on November 5th, when everyone was like, The Democrats got crushed, and it was a whopping? The reason why I was saying it wasn't a whopping is because of moments like this, because they actually have to still work to get the votes.
There was not -- they didn't -- they don't have 60 votes in the Senate. They don't have a margin that makes them be able to lose a handful of House members. It's close. So that was the first reason why. So, I just want to give a little throwback to some of the revisionist history that might be written in the future.
The second thing is the people, Republicans, a lot of them don't want to vote for this bill as is. But they will, because this is Donald Trump's Republican Party. And they do not, particularly House members, do not want to face a Senate -- or a primary challenge. For some senators, if they're not up in 2026, they may think they can distance themselves from this bill.
But the reality is the consequences that Dems are doing a good job messaging on this now, because I do think that Donald Trump, we played the footage, he said Medicaid wasn't going to be cut. It's going to be cut. There aren't millions of able-bodied people on Medicaid, right now, who are not just working because they don't want to.
But the consequence that demo -- or the reality that Democrats are going to have to do is some of these provisions don't go into effect until after 2028. And so, they're going to have to connect the dots of the harm that a current bill that they might not be actually experiencing, why they need to care about it, right now, so that some changes can happen after the midterms.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a really good point in terms of when this is actually going to affect voters.
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: Also part of this -- I mean, this bill is huge. It's not just about tax cuts and Medicaid. It's also about funding for ICE and the Pentagon.
But on ICE, we were caught up with Tom Homan, the border czar, at the White House today. The President is, tomorrow, going to Florida, to visit what DeSantis is building as Alligator Alcatraz, this new detention facility that has all this Florida wildlife around it.
We asked Tom Homan about this and this visit tomorrow, and here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And can you talk about the Alligator Alcatraz visit tomorrow? Are you going?
TOM HOMAN, TRUMP BORDER CZAR: Great facility. We can't wait for it to open. We'll put aliens in there as soon as we can.
COLLINS: How many people do you expect to be there?
[21:30:00]
HOMAN: Hats off to Governor DeSantis, making that facility available.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of migrants are going to be there (ph)?
HOMAN: That's why we need the big, beautiful bill to get more detention beds. So thank God that DeSantis came forward so quickly. We got to get the big, beautiful bill passed, so we'd buy more beds. The more beds we have, the more bad guys we arrest, the more people we can deport.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it going to--
COLLINS: How do you decide who goes there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --migrants there?
HOMAN: If you're in the country illegally, we got a problem.
COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Homan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of this step that the White House is taking here?
SUNUNU: Well, a couple things. I mean, first, one of the main reasons Senator Rand Paul is against this bill, for example, is, to your point, they -- it adds $500 billion, $500 billion in new spending, from defense to border and all this. This Alcatraz Alligator thing, 5,000 beds. That's like two days' worth of deportations in terms of their goal.
So, it's actually a very small piece of the puzzle. It's very symbolic, I think, and really defines, I think, where the administration is trying to take border control and border security. I don't mind it. I want to see, I think a lot of people would agree, an immigration reform bill.
I think the Republicans have an awesome opportunity to do a good, smart conservative immigration reform bill. I tell them all the time, If you don't do it, eventually the Democrats will be in charge, and they'll do it, and they won't do it the way you wanted. So, if you wrap this up in a better package, with better messaging, the American people -- the American public, will really understand it.
And on those issues of supporting defense support -- closing the border, and all that sort of thing. Americans want that. That's essentially why they voted Trump in. It's this Medicaid stuff that they were told they weren't going to be bargained for, and the Republicans just haven't planned, in terms of how to sell that, that piece of it.
COLLINS: Well, and in terms of the messaging, I mean, this comes, as you're hearing what Democrats are saying, what you just heard from Senator Elizabeth Warren, and obviously other Democrats are saying this.
The President's posting on Truth Social tonight, while he's monitoring all this, about a new cologne that they're selling. It's the Trump cologne, the 45 and 47 collection.
SUNUNU: What would that smell like? And that's the big--
COLLINS: It's a--
ALLISON: No, no, no.
SUNUNU: --that's the big question.
COLLINS: Well, and let me tell you what it cost. It's 250 bucks. When you click on that link, that's what it says.
SUNUNU: These are gold--
COLLINS: I just wonder, how that goes with what Democrats are arguing that he's going to kick people off Medicaid, as you know, even Thom Tillis is saying it's going to break his election promise. What you make of that?
ALLISON: Well, first, this Alcatraz Alligator, that's a photo-op. And they do these things when things aren't going as they had planned. They would like to see, right now, that this vote already be passed. And it's not. So, it's like, Let's take the attention off of the messy stuff happening in our party.
COLLINS: And the border numbers are good for them.
ALLISON: And so -- yes. And so, they think this is. So, it's all smoke and mirrors right now, this trip down there.
I do think, to the Governor's point, the Medicaid -- the reason why the Medicaid things are so important, that the Senator was saying, is that they have to pay for these tax cuts for billionaires some way, and they're paying it on the backs of the working-class people. That's what Democrats should be saying, that will be -- bring solid to people in 2026 and even in 2028.
COLLINS: So you're not going to buy the Cologne?
ALLISON: No.
SUNUNU: I'm going to buy it.
ALLISON: Don't see--
SUNUNU: This could be my -- I'm going to buy everything with Trump's name on it, just to -- just to get the collection.
COLLINS: OK.
ALLISON: We'll--
SUNUNU: You'll regret it eventually.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Noone's going to collect that.
ALLISON: We'll smell you, coming a mile away.
COLLINS: Ashley Allison. Governor Sununu. Thank you both for being here.
Well, up next, we have new details tonight on a story we've been following very closely, here at CNN. Two firefighters killed after, authorities say, a man deliberately started a brushfire to lure them in and ambushed them. My source tonight is the Fire and Rescue chief, for one of the firefighters who was killed.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, investigators are releasing new details, about the Idaho man, involved in that ambush-style shooting, that left two firefighters dead, and one in critical condition.
Police say that 20-year-old Wess Roley intentionally drew firefighters to the scene, yesterday, by starting a brushfire with a Flint Fire Starter. Upon arrival, authorities say that he even spoke to the firefighters minutes before firing on them with a shotgun. It's unclear what the interaction was, or what they spoke about. We are told, though, that as they responded to that fire, Roley fired at them from a tree.
Authorities in Coeur d'Alene are releasing a now-deleted photo that had been posted on the shooter's Instagram page before the attack, showing him in camouflage, dark makeup, the mask that you can see here. Police say, they then found his body hours after the attack, and that he appeared to have shot himself.
As firefighters are still battling that brushfire at the crime scene tonight, we have now learned the names of the two fallen firefighters. Coeur d'Alene Fire Department Battalion Chief, John Morrison. And Kootenai County Fire and Rescue Battalion Chief, Frank Harwood.
I'm joined tonight by the Kootenai County Fire Chief, Chris Way.
And Chief, I just want to say, I mean, I think it's so hard for anyone to just hear this story, and to even think about what you, and your team, and your community, have been through. So first, let me say, I'm deeply sorry for that. And I just think everyone wants to know, how you and the team are holding up tonight.
CHIEF CHRIS WAY, KOOTENAI COUNTY, IDAHO FIRE DEPT.: Well, Kaitlan, thank you for having me.
And obviously, on behalf of all the -- all the agencies involved, we want to say thank you so much for the support. We're feeling support, locally, from the entire State of Idaho and, quite frankly, nationwide. So, we're obviously very grateful and deeply appreciative of that.
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The team is, as you can expect, shaken. This is not something that you expect -- again, it was -- you mentioned it earlier. We responded to what we thought was a routine wildfire call for a brushfire, up on a mountain, that we responded to other calls for the same thing. So, never thought about walking into an active shooter or an ambush. The Sheriff said, last night, said it very well, the men walked into an ambush and had no chance. And so, I think -- I think, obviously, we're dealing with it.
The families are our focus. The families of the fallen, as well as the injured, are our focus. We're wrapping our arms around them, but -- and also, at the same time, focusing on our firefighters that were on the scene, and survived, and had to see this horrific incident unfold, as well as the men and women who are protecting their community today, just like nothing happened yesterday.
COLLINS: And what we heard today that was so stunning, was the authorities saying that there was some kind of conversation, or discussion, between this shooter and the firefighters beforehand. Have you been able to learn anything about that interaction?
WAY: So, we know that there was something. What we can't determine, unfortunately, because of the injuries and the fatalities, because we're under the assumption that maybe the exchange happened with them is, is what exactly was said, or how it was said, or anything like that.
So, the one thing that is -- it's still in the investigative process. Both of the battalion chief vehicles that were parked together, to form a command post for this incident, have video surveillance. And so, we're getting that to the investigators, I believe, tomorrow morning. They removed the vehicles today from the scene, and took them -- took them to the crime lab. So that's being done. I think, after maybe we see the video, or after the investigators are able to look at the video, maybe they'll have a little bit better idea. COLLINS: Do you know if there had been any contact with the -- with your department and this suspect before? Was he on anyone's radar there?
WAY: We have -- we, at Kootenai County Fire and Rescue, did not have contact.
There was a report that he may have contact with a couple of other fire departments in the area, but that is not confirmed. I think we've heard those same rumors you have, and no one has been able to confirm that yet.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, just it's devastating to see what's happened here, and that they were just doing their jobs, and responding to this, and trying to be helpful to people. I know, Chief Frank Harwood was with the department for 17 years.
WAY: Yes.
COLLINS: How are you remembering him tonight? What should people know about him?
WAY: You know, I remember Frank as a leader. Frank was his shift commander of our Blue Shift, and his shift is obviously devastated, because they lost their North Star.
And I think, obviously, I was fortunate enough to be the Chief that got to promote Frank to Battalion Chief, and I'm so proud of him for the leadership he's displayed over the last three years, three and a half years since he's been promoted.
But he was a natural leader all along. He was a great instructor and a trainer. He was passionate about physical fitness for his guys. He was just, he was truly an example of what people should be in a leadership role, and really exemplified that.
COLLINS: Yes, just our deepest thoughts are with the whole team, and the department and, of course, his family tonight.
Chief, thank you for coming on, and talking about it with us tonight. And please keep us updated on the investigation.
WAY: All right. Thank you for having me, Kaitlan. We appreciate it.
COLLINS: Yes, of course. Thank you.
Up next here. We're going to talk about a development at the White House today, after we heard from the United Nations nuclear watchdog, contradicting claims about strikes on Iran's nuclear ambitions, setting it back decades. There's new satellite images tonight that revealed renewed activity at one of the sites that was bombed. Our Global Affairs Analyst is my source, next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Tonight, there are new satellite images that you can see here over Iran's Fordow nuclear site. It shows a lot of activity there, barely a week after the United States bombed that facility, and two other sites. The images that we're seeing today show workers and construction equipment that is gathered near the ventilation shafts. That's led experts to suggest that Iran is making its own inspections of the damage that was done.
And it comes, as we're hearing from the head of the United Nations nuclear watchdog, who is now warning that it could only be a matter of months before Iran enriches uranium, again, contradicting what we have heard from President Trump, about the United States setting back Tehran's nuclear program by decades.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAFAEL GROSSI, U.N. NUCLEAR WATCHDOG CHIEF: Frankly speaking, one cannot claim that everything has disappeared and there is nothing there. It is clear that there has been severe damage, but it's not total damage, first of all. And secondly, Iran has the capacities there, industrial and technological capacities. So, if they so wish, they will be able to start doing this again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Brett McGurk, CNN Global Affairs Analyst, and a former National Security Council coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa.
And it's great to have you here.
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER WH COORDINATOR FOR THE MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA, FORMER SR. ADVISER TO THE PAST FOUR U.S. PRESIDENTS: Good to be here.
COLLINS: What do you make of this assessment from Grossi, and how much stock are you putting into this?
MCGURK: Yes well, Grossi, in that interview also says, as his role as the head of the IAEA, it's not his job to assess damage in a military operation. He makes that very clear.
COLLINS: Yes.
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MCGURK: What he's saying is Iran had a massive program, and there's a lot of ifs in that, a lot of assumptions. If they were to try to cobble together what might be left of centrifuges? Don't know if there are any centrifuges left. If they decided to actually try to reconstitute the program under the watchful eye of Israel and the U.S.? Perhaps they could reconstitute in a few months. I think that's highly unlikely.
And, Kait, we're going to have a lot of assessments coming out here, over the next weeks, months. Every time, I used to be in a policy job here, when the intel analyst would come, you always have to ask, What are the assumptions?
So number one. Is Iran, after the beating they just took, are they going to make the decision to try to reconstitute the program? That's going to have serious implications. Israel, United States could act to stop it. Do they have any centrifuges actually left? They lost about 20,000 centrifuges in Fordow and Natanz. Without centrifuges, you can't spin up uranium to weapons-grade. So a lot of questions here.
And I would just kind of let this play out. I think, overall, if I'm in the White House? No victory lap. You got to stay disciplined. You got to keep on this.
But this was a successful operation. Everyone I'm talking to thinks the program is significantly, significantly set back.
And we now have a lot of tools. Number one, we could strike again if we have to. Hope we don't have to. We also have the Europeans who are being very strong here, saying, Iran, if you try to hide your uranium, if you try to reconstitute your program, they're prepared to snap back international sanctions. That's another tool.
I think the diplomacy over the coming weeks will get going again, over the course of the summer. But I think this program has been significantly set back.
COLLINS: So, when the President -- I was listening to an interview he did yesterday, where he was saying that he thinks, even if they could have that capability to try again, the way he framed it was that they're exhausted by what has happened, and what they're looking at.
I mean, you're seeing this activity. They're going to these ventilation shafts that literally had these massive bombs dropped into the ventilation shafts. What does that even look like, as Iran tries to start looking and seeing what the extent of the damage was?
MCGURK: It's going to take them a long time. First of all, I think they're reeling, even figuring out what exactly happened, in that 12- day campaign. They lost about a dozen nuclear scientists.
And it wasn't just Fordow -- Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz. The Israelis hit almost every centrifuge production facility, every single site that was known to have a nuclear connection, pretty much was hit. So, it's going to be extremely, extremely difficult, I just want to emphasize this, for Iran to make the decision try to reconstitute the program, especially enrichment, and then to try to figure out what is actually left, and it's a system.
So, inside the U.S. government, right now, in the intelligence community, you have nuclear specialists, you have political analysts, trying to judge Iranian decision-making. This will all come out in a comprehensive assessment.
But even then, as a policy-maker, you want to say, OK, how do we deter Iran from trying to make such a decision?
COLLINS: Yes. MCGURK: How do we stop the supply chain for allowing them to be able to reconstitute? A lot of tools here in the tool kit.
Overall, this was a successful operation. But it's not over. There's no victory laps, here in the Middle East.
COLLINS: If they're still trying to figure out what's going on in terms of leadership and decision-making. When the White House is talking about pursuing diplomacy here, they said today that the President himself has not spoken to Iranians, but there's direct and indirect contact.
Is there someone who's making decisions on that process? Or is that something that maybe also is not likely in the near future?
MCGURK: I don't think the Iranians have their act together to make strategic decisions. I mean, they're reeling. Everybody's talking to everybody. So, the President of Iran, Pezeshkian, he's known to be a fairly moderate guy, he's talking to Macron. There's a lot going on behind-the-scenes. Iran's Foreign Minister, today, Araghchi, said, he's not quite ready to talk to the Americans again.
I think the diplomacy, Kaitlan, will eventually get going again. But right now, Iran is reeling. This is a massive blow to them. And we have to see.
But we have to stay focused here on the diplomacy, not only Iran, also Gaza. We have the Israelis in town, this week.
COLLINS: Yes.
MCGURK: And Bibi Netanyahu will be here on Monday. Got to get that Gaza ceasefire in place. That is critical piece of the puzzle.
And then looking longer-term, Syria, Lebanon, a lot of pieces here going on, that diplomatically, I think there is a real opportunity to have a more stable Middle East after what happened in the last two weeks. But not if you lose focus, not if you say, The job is done.
So, you got to stay on it. Stay focused. Work the diplomacy. Work the intelligence. Let the professionals do their job. And I think, overall, this can be a pretty good outcome. But we're not there yet.
COLLINS: Yes. That's a highly anticipated visit on Monday--
MCGURK: That's right.
COLLINS: --by the Israeli prime minister at the White House.
Brett McGurk, thank you for your time tonight.
MCGURK: Thank you.
COLLINS: Still ahead for us. A shocking plea deal for the man who was accused of murdering those four University of Idaho students. Now there may be no trial at all. [21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, before we go, three things you may have missed on this Monday.
Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty to four counts of murder to avoid the death penalty. The 30-year-old, accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students, in their house, in 2022, was slated to go on trial, next month. Prosecutors had indicated they would pursue the death penalty.
A new hearing has now been set for Wednesday. As tonight, the family of one of the victims said in a Facebook post that they were, quote, Furious at the State of Idaho, saying that quote, They have failed us. Please give us some time.
Also, a woman who was injured in that antisemitic attack, earlier this month, in Boulder, Colorado has died. The D.A.'s office there said that 82-year-old Karen Diamond died tragically as a result of the severe injuries that she suffered in the attack.
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Prosecutors say that charges against Mohamed Soliman have been updated and amended, and he is now facing more than a 100 murder charges, including murder. And there were at least 29 victims in that attack.
And finally tonight, before we go, the WNBA is expanding to three cities. The new team in Cleveland will begin playing in 2028, with Detroit following in 2029, and Philadelphia in 2030. The WNBA Commissioner says, the demand for women's basketball has never been higher. And those three new teams will bring the total number of WNBA franchises to 18.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
