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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
House GOP Scrambles For Votes On Trump's Bill Amid Opposition; Jury Reaches Partial Verdict In Sean "Diddy" Combs Trial; Trump Tours "Alligator Alcatraz" Migrant Camp Equipped With Caged Bunk Beds, Barbed Wire. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 01, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But his following never fully recovered. His health failed. And at 90, his passing was marked with a post: Brother Swaggart has finished his earthly race.
Tom Foreman. CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Jimmy Swaggart was 90- years-old.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: After narrowly passing the Senate, President Trump's so-called big, beautiful bill is now in the hands of the House, and there are signs of trouble ahead, so far.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump's megabill is now in the hands of the House of Representatives. And almost immediately, there are signs that things are about to potentially get quite bumpy.
The President's signature piece of legislation includes tax and Medicaid cuts that barely passed the Senate, but ultimately did after a tie-breaking vote from the Vice President, JD Vance, and praise that we heard from President Trump as he flew back to Washington, on Air Force One today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This bill has something for everybody, by doing it this way. So we're happy about it. We're happy with the result.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It remains to be seen, if certain House Republicans are also happy with the result. While President Trump directed them to, quote, "Stay UNITED, have fun, and Vote 'YAY.'" Speaker Mike Johnson can only afford for three of them to vote, Nay. And right now, we are hearing from several House Republicans who say they have serious reservations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): So this whole thing is -- I don't know what to call it -- it's a (bleep) show.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): My colleagues in the Senate failed us. My colleagues in the Senate failed us.
REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I think the Founders and the 56 signers of Declaration of Independence would be astounded, they were adding debt to our children who -- and grandchildren, who are defenseless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, those are House Republicans. But we're even hearing from some Senate Republicans who voted yes on this bill, that still want more changes to be made.
Lisa Murkowski of Alaska cast the deciding vote today, but said afterward, quote, "My sincere hope is that this is not the final product. This bill needs more work across chambers and is not ready for the President's desk."
When she was asked by NBC News' Ryan Nobles, about criticism from her fellow Republican, Rand Paul, just watch how long Senator Murkowski paused for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN NOBLES, NBC NEWS CHIEF CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Senator Paul said that this was -- that your vote was a bailout for Alaska, at the expense of the rest of the country.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): Oh, my.
NOBLES: That's what Senator Paul said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bet something was easy (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, we've got the--
NOBLES: I didn't say, ma'am. I'm just asking for your response.
MURKOWSKI: My response is, I have an obligation to the people of the State of Alaska. Do I like this bill? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Despite what we heard from Senator Murkowski, about more changes to this bill, the White House doesn't want that. They don't want to see any more changes to what the Senate passed, and they are instead urging House Republicans to get this bill to the President's desk ASAP, according to what the President's Budget chief told me, this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: On the bill that just passed the Senate, does the White House want the House to make any changes to it? Or do you guys want them to pass it as is?
RUSSELL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: We need to pass this bill. We need to get it to the President's desk.
COLLINS: So no changes from the House?
VOUGHT: We need to pass this bill and get it to the President's desk, and we're on a limited timeframe.
COLLINS: You worked closely with Elon Musk on DOGE. I mean, what do you say to his concerns and his complaints about, this is not being fiscally conservative, what people in your party have run on for years?
VOUGHT: I think it's wrong. I think, you know, we continue to educate folks on the extent to which the perceptions of this bill, on the fiscal side, are coming from watchdogs that are policy-agnostic and don't support tax relief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to get straight to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty, who is live on Capitol Hill for us tonight, where we are watching closely, to see what Republicans there are saying.
And Sunlen, obviously, you heard the White House kind of arguing this, saying that maybe they feel that they need to be educated, and that they are looking at outside estimates that the White House disagrees with.
What are you hearing on Capitol Hill tonight?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, certainly tomorrow is going to be a critical day up here on Capitol Hill in the House.
The House and House leaders have made it very clear that they intend to move toward a final vote on this bill, this very important bill that the President wants to see moved through very swiftly. But how that happens, when that happens, and if that happens, is very much an open question at this hour.
[21:05:00]
Now, the first thing to look for, in the morning, is potentially them to move towards, if they feel like they are in a good spot, towards a key procedural vote. Now, this is essentially a vote on the rule of the bill, essentially to advance the bill on the House floor. That is where we could get an early indication in the morning, which way this is headed, and if those conservatives who are still worried about the bill and expressing a lot of disagreement with the bill, at this hour tonight, if they will stand in the way of the bill going forward and advancing on the House floor.
And we have heard, this evening, on Capitol Hill, a lot of frustration about the bill, a lot of frustration about the House just, in essence, taking the Senate changes, especially the deeper cuts to Medicaid that many House conservatives are worried about.
They, in essence, want to amend the bill, make another House version, and then send it back to the Senate. That is something the House leadership, at this moment, want to avoid. They want to avoid, in essence, this legislative ping-pong, where it goes from the House to the Senate, and back again.
So right now, it is an open question, what happens on the floor of the House, tomorrow, when they convene.
And Kaitlan, Speaker Johnson, as he was leaving the House tonight, said -- acknowledged that there are a lot of factors in play, not only all this worry about what's in the bill, if they will have enough votes. They can only lose three members. But also, the key factor of getting members back here in Washington. There are major weather delays. They are worried about each and every member as they show up.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, a lot of flight delays coming in.
Sunlen Serfaty, thank you for that.
Two lawmakers, who have made it to Washington, are here with me tonight.
Republican congressman, Tim Burchett of Tennessee.
And Democratic congressman, Ritchie Torres of New York.
Congratulations on not having flight delays.
Congressman, what are you going to do? Are you going to vote yes, on the bill, as it stands tonight? Or do you have reservations, like some of your colleagues, over in the House?
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Of course, I have reservations. It's a huge piece of legislation. The thing I let mostly, though, is how it affects Tennesseans. And if it doesn't pass, then Tennesseans will automatically have a pretty substantial tax increase, as in his district as well. So, that working folks, things like that. The credits that are there, in there for manufacturing, I like. I like -- I like the border security. I like the Iron Dome, if we -- if it's done.
COLLINS: Yes, but a lot of people in Tennessee get Medicaid and SNAP benefits as well.
BURCHETT: Sure.
COLLINS: Are you worried about--
BURCHETT: And they're--
COLLINS: --those cuts?
BURCHETT: No, I'm not. Because unless they're doing it illegally and waste, abuse and fraud. That's all the cuts are. That's a misnomer. That's what the left is putting out to scare people. And unfortunately, that's what we do in politics, and it's wrong.
COLLINS: What do you -- you're saying people -- only people who get Medicaid illegally, are going to be affected by these cuts? I don't think that's all right. I mean, the--
BURCHETT: I do. I think that's--
COLLINS: The projection is it's 12 million people.
BURCHETT: Yes, I know what the projection is.
COLLINS: Are you saying 12 million people are getting Medicaid illegally?
BURCHETT: But I've -- and I've delved into those notes, and most of them are unsubstantiated. That's -- you know, they will not address the fact that illegals are on it. And they will not address the fact that there's a work requirement, which I think every American, if they're capable of working, they should probably not be on Medicaid.
And so, yes, we've got single -- single moms, two kids or something like that. No, they should qualify for the programs. But if we're not careful, we will destroy the program. It will not take care of the least amongst us.
COLLINS: Congressman Torres?
REP. RITCHIE TORRES (D-NY): The Republican reconciliation bill is a tragedy for America. It's a tragedy for the working people of America.
The independent, bipartisan Congressional Budget Office has said that it will cause 12 million people to lose their health care. It will slash Medicaid and children's health care by a trillion dollars, which is the largest health care cut in recent American history. It will slash SNAP by $300 billion, the largest food assistance cut in recent history. It's going to add $3 trillion to $5 trillion to the debt, plunging our country into a debt spiral.
The legislation is a catastrophe. And if you think that a trillion dollar cut amounts to preserving or protecting Medicaid, then I have the Bronx River and the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you. It's a lie. Donald Trump is lying about the impact of the legislation to the American people. It's one thing to defund health care and food. It's something else to lie to the American people.
COLLINS: Can you -- you talk about your reservations. And one thing we've heard from Republicans is you want to get rid of waste, fraud and abuse, right?
BURCHETT: Correct.
COLLINS: Do you -- ae you comfortable then with the provision that the Senate put into this, to get Lisa Murkowski to vote for it, where, basically, states that have the highest level of erroneous payouts of SNAP get a delay here.
Essentially, those states that are the worst at paying out SNAP benefits, or do it, the least, effectively, get a delay here in essentially, of how long they could -- they could see cuts to those provisions, in terms of that. We've heard from some Republicans who say it's kind of this perverse incentive that the worse you are at this, the more you benefit from this provision of the Senate bill.
[21:10:00]
BURCHETT: I think it allows states to get in line. But also, I think it's very disingenuous, when you say that it's going to add $3 trillion to the debt in 10 years. When the last four years--
COLLINS: I didn't say that. The Congressional Budget Office said that.
BURCHETT: Well, I--
TORRES: That's what the--
(CROSSTALK)
BURCHETT: Well, the Congressional Budget Office is not nonpartisan. 85 percent of the people that work in their health care division are Democrats and have contributed to Democrats. Their number one economist is a--
COLLINS: It's run by a Republican.
BURCHETT: --is a Democrat. And they--
COLLINS: It's run by a Republican.
BURCHETT: But they -- it needs to be disbanded. It is a -- it is a relic.
But the truth is, under the last four years, every 100 days, we've run up a trillion dollars. And all of a sudden, you just hear the Democrats and Chuck Schumer saying, Over the next 10 years, it's going to round up $3 trillion.
Well, where were they, the last four years, when we ran up over $12 trillion in debt? That just doesn't figure. And they're allowed to do that because their mouthpieces in the media continue to tout these lies that they say, and they just don't fit into what -- in the real math.
And the CBO has never been a bi -- a nonpartisan organization.
COLLINS: OK--
BURCHETT: Nobody believes that. Nobody believes that. And--
COLLINS: Well, the guy who runs it donated to a Republican and is a Republican.
But can I ask you, in terms of what you're saying about -- I mean, you're saying what the media is saying about this.
This is Ron Johnson, who had these concerns. Josh Hawley who had these concerns. Thom Tillis is saying, people in his state who are deserving of Medicaid would be kicked off of it, essentially--
(CROSSTALK)
BURCHETT: Outside of -- outside of Tillis, they all voted for it.
COLLINS: Well, they still criticized it, though, and said they had serious reservations about it.
BURCHETT: Well, sure, there's -- you're going to have criticism of it, anything that's this large.
That's why I think we need to go back to what we do in Tennessee, single issue spending bills, and let every -- let every bill be accountable to the voters. But we don't do that, because neither party has the guts to do it, and they know it's a wink and a nod to stack these things up with a lot of pork.
Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury with this because of our economic situation that we're in. And I think that the American economy has suffered the last four years. And under this bill, I think it will correct a lot of those problems.
COLLINS: So, it sounds like you're going to vote yes on this?
BURCHETT: I'm leaning in that direction. But yes, but I still have my concerns.
COLLINS: OK. So--
BURCHETT: I met with Treasury today, over a lot of the issues that I had.
COLLINS: Well, you're leaning Yes.
I know House Democrats met tonight. We keep hearing the criticisms from Democrats, over this bill. I think the question is, what do House Democrats plan to do about it. Are you just going to try to delay it? Or what is that going to look like in the next few days?
TORRES: Well, we're going to do everything we can to delay. But there are just several factual inaccuracies.
So first, federal law prohibits undocumented immigrants from receiving Medicaid.
Second, this legislation will destroy far more work than it actually creates. Like health care, 17 percent of the U.S. economy, there are thousands of counties, where the largest employer is the local health care provider, is the local hospital. And if you drain the system of a trillion dollars, it's going to lead to higher rates of unemployment.
And then, on the work requirements. Experience tells us that work requirements are effectively paperwork requirements. It will not lead to more work. It will lead to more paperwork. Arkansas had a work requirements program that cost 18,000 people to lose access to health care. The majority of those people were working people, were eligible for Medicaid. So experience tells us it will not boost employment. It will simply cause people to lose their health care.
COLLINS: What did you make of what Senator Murkowski said today, after she was the deciding vote here that allowed Vice President Vance to come in and be the Yes. She said that it's been an awful process. She called it, A frantic rush to meet an artificial deadline that has tested every limit of this institution, before sending it back over to the House.
TORRES: She described it as agonizing to vote for it. But it's going to be more agonizing for the 30,000 people who lose health care in your district, or the 15,000 people who lose SNAP in your district. It's going to be agonizing for the millions of people, who are going to lose food and health care, simply to fund tax cuts for the top 1 percent.
I have constituents who, after paying all their bills, live on $20 a day. And we're going to slash health care and food for those living on $20 a day to fund tax cuts, for the likes of Elon Musk, who has a net worth of upward of $400 billion? Like, I can--
COLLINS: Well, Elon Musk doesn't like this bill.
TORRES: All right--
COLLINS: To be -- to be--
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
COLLINS: --concerns.
And that's the point about the deficit here. I mean, we do hear from Republicans when they're not in power, We've got to fix the deficit, we've got to fix this.
You're now in power, and people like Elon Musk are saying, I'm going to create another political party, because if you're voting for this, you should hang your head in shame. I mean, if you vote for this, would you be one of those people?
BURCHETT: The rate of -- the rate has significantly been decreased, almost exponential, the rate of growth of debt. As I've stated, the last four years, every 100 days, it goes up a trillion dollars. Yet you heard him say, we're cutting a trillion. Yet, he's afraid we're going to tax somebody over that. And that just doesn't -- the math doesn't work out that way.
We were -- every 100 days, we add a trillion dollars to the debt. And under this, every 10 years, over 10 years, we add $3 trillion to the debt. And that does not include -- that's where the CBO is wrong. It doesn't include the economic growth, such as it's going to be released in our energy sector with the reduction in rules and regulations, and things like that.
[21:15:00]
So, the CBO score is, it -- when it fits into your agenda, that's great. But when it doesn't, it's the horrible choice--
COLLINS: Well--
BURCHETT: So, I just--
TORRES: Can I -- can I--
BURCHETT: --I just think we ought to do away with it. It's another bloated bureaucracy that we have, that the American public doesn't need. And I feel like it is.
TORRES: So, I agree, in order to grow the economy, you have to grow the electric grid. In order to win the AI competition against China, you have to grow the electric grid. In 2024, clean energy made up 90 percent of new electric generation in the United States. Solar alone--
BURCHETT: Yet--
TORRES: --accounted for 60 percent.
BURCHETT: I--
TORRES: Defunding the very tax credits that drive almost all of new electric generation is going to put us behind both technologically and economically. It's a gift--
BURCHETT: That's not an accurate statistic because--
TORRES: --to the Chinese Communist Party. It's absolutely, is.
BURCHETT: It is not an accurate statistic--
TORRES: Absolutely is.
BURCHETT: --because they -- the Biden administration bragged about permitting oil wells. But what they didn't tell you was they didn't permit the delivery system, the pipelines, and the -- and the refineries. So, in effect, you could get the oil out of ground, you couldn't do anything with it. And then -- and then, when they put the incentives in there for -- or the giveaways for solar and windmills, then you see it go up a little. Then of course--
TORRES: These are global trends. Like China--
COLLINS: But can I--
TORRES: Most of China's new energy capacity is solar and battery storage. So, these are global trends.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously--
TORRES: These are not unique to the United States.
COLLINS: One thing the Senate did take out was a new tax on those future projects. It's essentially just getting rid of the ability that they had, from what Biden had passed here.
But can I ask you? Democrats keep talking about how unpopular this bill is. And it is. That's seen in various polls, including a Fox News poll that was done.
TORRES: Republicans tell us how unpopular it is, so.
COLLINS: Do -- is there a cynical view that Democrats have, behind closed doors, that it will be helpful to you in the midterms if this passes?
TORRES: No, because we care about the country. I mean, my district has a Medicaid enrollment of 67 percent. Like, more than 70 percent of the children in my district, more than 80 percent of the nursing home residents in my district, more than 90 percent of the baby deliveries in my district are covered by Medicaid. Like, these programs, are too big to fail, or too critical, to too many Americans. And so, this legislation must be defeated at all costs.
BURCHETT: And they won't fail, because unless they're there on the -- unless they're -- by waste, abuse or fraud, if they're there on fraudulently--
TORRES: This is--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: So, you are a 100 percent confident that if this bill passes, maybe by Friday, that no one who is qualified for Medicaid will lose funding to it, like the concerns that some of your fellow Republicans have?
BURCHETT: No, I'm not concerned. I believe -- I trust it, what's in the legislation, what it says. And I've looked through the facts. I've looked through the numbers. And, again, I think the CBO is completely wrong, and they're taking -- they're not taking into effect the fraudulent behavior. What does the Democrat Party have against somebody who is able-bodied, in getting out and getting a goddamn (ph) job? Why -- why are they opposing this?
COLLINS: You're not worried about rural hospitals losing money, like we've heard from some of your other fellow Republicans?
BURCHETT: There's $50 billion in a fund to take care of that.
COLLINS: But they did that because they were worried what you guys passed in this House.
BURCHETT: But you just said that I was -- was I worried about it? And they took care of it in the bill.
COLLINS: But that was not in what you voted yes on, and what was sent to the Senate.
BURCHETT: But the Senate took care of that. They corrected that problem.
COLLINS: But you said yes on it. You see my point, right?
BURCHETT: No, just like--
COLLINS: You did not -- you -- that was not--
BURCHETT: Just like he -- just like he raised these taxes in his district--
COLLINS: --put in there by House Republicans.
BURCHETT: --$1,700 on--
COLLINS: That was put in there by the Senate.
BURCHETT: --on couples making $70,000 or less. So, it's apples and oranges, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Congressmen Tim Burchett, Ritchie Torres, thank you both for being here. We'll see what happens, and if this passes by July 4th.
Coming up here. The jury has reached a partial verdict in that trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. CNN's Laura Coates was outside the courtroom, the moment this dramatic update happened. She'll give us all the details of what is going to happen, next.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There is breaking news tonight, as the jury, in the Sean "Diddy" Combs federal criminal trial, was sent home, this evening, after reaching a partial verdict in his case.
The jury sent a note, this afternoon, saying they reached a verdict on the counts of sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution, but they remain deadlocked on the most serious charge that he is facing, count one for racketeering conspiracy.
The judge asked that they keep deliberating, meaning they will return to this courthouse, at 09:00 a.m., tomorrow, to decide Diddy's fate.
CNN's Laura Coates was outside the courtroom, during a quite dramatic day, and joins me now.
And obviously, Laura, the question here is, one, what this means. And what happens tomorrow, when they show back up, if they can't reach a verdict, on that first count?
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: This was such a significant moment to have what, 12 hours of deliberations, and then have four out of the five counts decided. We have no idea what they are.
But the most serious, RICO, which could have a lifetime sentence, is apparently the one they're hung on. It's a very complex case. It involves having to not only find him guilty of RICO by conspiracy, but also these sort of mini trials were happening, Kaitlan.
So, they have to show they're predicate acts, whether it's kidnapping or arson or bribery, if you go down the list. For each of those, they had to consider whether the court -- the jury, excuse me -- the prosecution had proven each of those things. Right now, they're hung.
So tomorrow, they're going to go back in and continue to deliberate. And the judge wants them to essentially keep going. He doesn't yet know, were they tired and exhausted today, and they had an impasse that was temporary? Or could it be done away with clarification or other questions being answered? Or was it truly, I don't care if you give me 72 more days and a 100 more hours to deliberate, I still will never come to terms and agreement. That's where they'll be tomorrow.
[21:25:00]
Now, if they ultimately do not decide, unanimously, on that first charge, the judge could very well call a mistrial to that first count, offering the prosecution a chance to prosecute Diddy again, and have them read the two through five counts, about what they did conclude.
Now, of course, the defendant, they want finality. The prosecution does too. But tomorrow, we could have a hung jury on one count, and know the rest.
COLLINS: I mean, it was -- the minute you were on TV, earlier, Laura, everyone in the White House booth was turning it up to see what you were saying about this verdict, what this meant.
COATES: It's fascinating.
COLLINS: Thanks for breaking it down for us. Obviously, we'll see what happens. And Laura is going to be digging into much more of what played out in court today. She's got a special two-hour of "LAURA COATES LIVE" tonight on the Diddy trial. That starts at 11:00 p.m., Eastern. You don't want to miss it.
And my legal sources are here joining me now.
CNN Legal Analyst, Elliot Williams.
And also, the former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree.
Tom, one thing that I heard some people, legal experts, were surprised by, was the judge sending the jury home. Do you -- if you're the defense, how are you feeling about that tonight?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, the defense wants the jury to keep deliberating.
And I think from the judge's perspective, they're actually very early on in their deliberative process. This was a long trial. It commonly takes jurors several days, to decide complicated cases. So, I think when the jury initially said, Look, we're at an impasse. We're deadlocked on the racketeering count, the judge was probably chuckling to himself, and saying, You have just begun to deliberate.
So, it doesn't surprise me at all that the judge basically said, Look, you got to go back. Try it again. If you're not able to reach something today -- which they weren't -- you come back tomorrow morning.
I strongly suspect that if at the end of the day tomorrow, the jury comes back again, and says, Hey, we're still deadlocked? The judge is going to say, You know what? I'll see you here 09:00 a.m., on Thursday morning.
COLLINS: I mean, how do you -- if you're the jury, and you're looking at this, and they're feeling, which our understanding was, the jurors had unpersuadable opinions--
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: --on both sides of the racketeering charge, but were unanimous on the others. What does that say to you about where they are coming down on this?
WILLIAMS: It's hard to say. Look, it happened -- it came back very quickly. And in general, it is safe to assume, or to think, that when juries come back quickly, they often come back with a conviction, but we don't know what they're going to come back with.
That deadlock point. I can't tell you how many juries I had that come back within a couple hours, saying that they think they're deadlocked because they think they are. They're just not in agreement about something.
Now, it was remarkable in this trial, this, the fact that they came back within hours saying that, No, literally, there's a person here that cannot agree with us on anything. So there might be one or more jurors that simply are not playing ball with the others. Who knows? We will see.
COLLINS: And when you look at this, counts two through five, I think the question automatically is, what does that mean for Diddy, and what is this going to look like?
What Laura, and Elizabeth Wagmeister, and Kara Scannell, kept reporting today, which he had this confused look on his face, as all this was playing out, and things were kind of shuffling around, inside that New York City courtroom.
DUPREE: Look, I agree that you can't know what the jury is doing, what they -- what verdicts they reach on those counts.
COLLINS: But you try to read into it.
DUPREE: But here's--
COLLINS: I mean, I remember during the Trump trial, they were saying, This juror, we think, is on our side. That person ultimately voted to convict. I mean, they don't -- even the legal team has no clue.
DUPREE: I think there have to be some convictions in there, because I don't see how they could deadlock on the most complicated, serious case, right? They don't know what they're going to do on that, if they acquitted on all the other counts. That doesn't make sense.
I strongly think there has to be at least one conviction embedded within those four counts that they decided today. We may know tomorrow. We may know in a few days. But I can't see a world in which they acquitted him on all those four cases, and yet are at a deadlock--
COLLINS: They're deadlocked on the most serious.
DUPREE: --on that most complicated, serious charge. It doesn't make sense.
COLLINS: That's a good point. And in terms of what that looks like. Laura mentioned a hung jury possibility here. I mean, what would happen in that situation?
WILLIAMS: Well, technically, it's as if the trial never happened on that count, it's as if there was not a verdict, there's a nullity in the law. Technically, prosecutors could try it again. Now, that's up to the prosecution to decide whether they wish to do so.
To Tom's point, they would have gotten convictions on several other counts that could carry up to life in prison, certainly a 15-year mandatory minimum sentence. And so, why would they go back and try another really complicated count again? So, prosecution's free to -- hard to know what they would do actually.
COLLINS: So-- DUPREE: I think we're ready to get this whole sordid saga behind us, you know? Let's get the conviction, let the appeal process play out, and that's it.
COLLINS: Well, and we're facing a holiday weekend, starting on Friday. I mean, this is something that typically has factored into juries, previously--
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COLLINS: --where they want to be able to go home, essentially.
DUPREE: That is absolutely true. There is this dynamic, in a jury room, when you have a weekend approaching, or a long holiday weekend approaching, to get down to business, and to reach a resolution.
WILLIAMS: Right.
DUPREE: Because I can promise you, no matter what the jurors think, not a single juror wants to come back after the July 4th weekend.
WILLIAMS: I mean, I mean, I mean--
DUPREE: They want to be done.
WILLIAMS: Lunchtime can be a motivator for jurors to get their job done. A three-day weekend is also pretty big.
COLLINS: So, if he is convicted on the counts, two through five here, what does that look like for him? How serious of--
WILLIAMS: Oh it's--
COLLINS: --of time could he be facing?
WILLIAMS: It's very serious. So, again, 15-year mandatory minimum on the sex trafficking count. So right there, he's going to jail for 15 years. That is the significant amount of time in prison alone.
[21:30:00]
And then, depending on all of the other evidence that came in, that the judge can consider at sentencing, it could be months, if not years, decades, longer than that. That's up to the judge to decide.
COLLINS: And I think, there was contention between the prosecution, and Combs' team, over a request for an Allen charge today, in terms of what this looks like. What does that mean? And how is that decided here?
DUPREE: Sure. An Allen charge is basically a judge's instruction to the jury that reports an initial deadlock to basically say, in very strong and forceful language, You have a duty, if at all possible, to reach a unanimous verdict.
But here's the thing. An Allen charge is a last resort. You don't issue an Allen charge at the first report of some sort of deadlock. I was a little surprised that the prosecutors requested an Allen charge. I think it would be premature to do it. But an Allen charge is a useful tool, in a judge's arsenal. But more days, more time, has to go by, before you uncork that and tell the jury that.
COLLINS: Yes.
All right. Tom Dupree. Elliot Williams. We'll see what happens, starting at 09:00 a.m., tomorrow. Obviously, this is fascinating.
Also up next here. In Washington, the truce between Elon Musk and President Trump seems to be over. There's a new back-and-forth between the two of them tonight that is coming with threats from the world's richest man. My White House insiders are here with the latest reporting from inside the Oval Office, next.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: So much for that truce. President Trump and Elon Musk have been feuding again, with the President now threatening to unleash the former DOGE chief's own cost-cutting government effort against him, and also not ruling out deporting him, after Elon Musk criticized the President's megabill that is making its way through Capitol Hill, and also threatened to launch a new political party if it passes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you going to deport Elon Musk?
TRUMP: I don't know. I think we'll have to take a look. We might have to put DOGE on Elon, you know? You know what DOGE is? DOGE is the monster that have, that might have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that be terrible? He gets a lot of subsidies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In response to those comments there, Musk posted this, saying it was, So tempting to escalate this. So, so tempting. But I will refrain for now.
Instead, Musk has been throwing his weight, and potentially his money, behind Thomas Massie, Congressman of Kentucky, who has been a consistent no on Trump's megabill, and who Trump has now vowed to force out of his job by primarying him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I just don't think he does a good job for the country. He's always a 'no.' I call him Rand Paul Jr. He's always a 'no.' Nothing constructive at all, at all. I mean, just terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, that comes as Musk has threatened to fully back primary challenges against Republican lawmakers who vote for this bill.
The President responded to that with a threat of his own, this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Elon Musk is ripping into this bill again. Are you concerned that Republicans are going to be swayed by Musk and his money?
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I think what's going to happen is DOGE is going to look at Musk. And if DOGE looks at Musk, we're going to save a fortune.
Thank you very much, everybody.
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: I don't think he should be playing that game with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm joined now by two of my deeply-sourced White House insiders.
Michael Scherer, staff writer for The Atlantic.
And Shelby Talcott, who's a White House Correspondent for Semafor.
And obviously, I mean, to see this moment, and hearing Trump today, saying that DOGE is going to turn on its own chief who began DOGE, was quite something.
MICHAEL SCHERER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: You know, they can make up and break up again, several times, before the next midterm elections. But there's also a scenario where this is like a huge event.
Because, one of Trump's big political projects, coming into office, was to build the Republican Party, to bring in this Silicon Valley, to bring in this new young, hip crowd, RFK, Tulsi Gabbard. And that appears to be breaking down. If he does start a separate party, he's going to peel off a huge chunk of especially the younger voters that were attracted to Trump last time.
Secondly, this guy's worth $350 billion, you know? In a normal midterm election cycle, the Congressional Leadership Fund, which is the main House Republican PAC, will raise $200 million -- $250 million. No one else can just throw that kind of money around, but Musk can. He did, last time. And if he really carries on through with this promise, it could be really a big problem for Republicans essentially.
COLLINS: Well, and both of these are two figures who just say what they think. I mean, automatically, you saw Musk saying today, it was so tempting to escalate it even further. It's not clear what he had in mind. But saying he's refraining from now. That doesn't mean it will be for very long. I mean, we saw the very public back-and-forth between the two of them, Shelby, just a few weeks ago, where Musk was accusing him of being in the so-called Epstein files. What are you hearing from White House officials about this today?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: This is kind of deja vu.
The first time around, White House officials did not want this to escalate publicly. They did not want Donald Trump to respond to Elon Musk. And remember, it took Donald Trump a few days, the first time around, to go after Elon Musk publicly, and then kind of all hell broke loose for a few days.
This time around is the same thing. They are -- there's frustration that this is starting up again, especially at such a key point in the President's bill trying to get passed. But at the same time, I think that they're kind of holding off.
[21:40:00]
And I've talked to a few White House officials. They note that this time is not yet as personal as the last time, and it is not yet sort of garnered the news that it did, the first time around, and that's the way that they want to keep things.
COLLINS: But I mean, Musk is coming out and saying, this bill is the worst, and it's going to add all this money to the deficit, and everyone who said they were running for one thing, it is not ideologically consistent.
I mean, that is exactly what the White House has been pushing back on, every single day, in calls with reporters, in press briefings, in the President's Truth Social posts. I mean, it could, more than the personal stuff, have an overwhelming effect--
SCHERER: Yes. There--
COLLINS: --relating to the same.
SCHERER: There is an information ecosystem that supports the MAGA movement, and Musk has become an integral part of that. His Twitter account, his X account was a major megaphone through the election, last year.
You just had a Republican, the Congressman on here, saying, Don't believe the CBO. This doesn't actually increase the deficit.
All the independent people, who've looked at this bill say it's going to dramatically increase the deficit. And now, you have Musk saying it's going to dramatically increase the deficit. And that pierces that sort of MAGA bubble of information.
And so, people who believe that they can't trust independent observers or the mainstream media now have to decide whether they're going to trust Elon Musk or what the President's saying. TALCOTT: And I do think that there's an argument to be made that some of these Republican lawmakers, who are either planning to vote no, for this bill, or on the fence, might feel emboldened to vote, no, because they see that Elon Musk is potentially willing to support them financially, if they do so.
COLLINS: Yes, but the President's point was, Elon Musk has a lot to lose here, because of government subsidies and government contracts that he has. It's not clear -- he threatened this before, to review those and look into them and terminate them. It's not clear if he's actually taken serious steps to do so.
But it could be pitting Elon Musk's allies, who are still very much inside the federal government, working for DOGE, put them in an awkward position, potentially.
SCHERER: Yes, and it's a real threat. I mean, he's gone after law firms that have come up against him. He's gone after, I mean, Jeff Bezos, during the first Trump term, had to fight over contracts that Trump tried to take away from him, because he wasn't happy with the reporting at The Washington Post. So, I think it's a -- I think it's a real threat.
And it is absolutely true that Musk takes a lot of money from the federal government. The contracts, mostly he's winning fair and square.
But one of the things the White House has been saying, through this whole process, is the reason Musk is upset right now is that the EV tax credits that benefit Tesla have not been included in the bill that's probably going to pass this week.
So, I think that kind of stepped escalation, if it continues, is really dangerous for both sides.
COLLINS: Yes, and I think in terms of that, I mean how the White House is viewing. We're watching this back-and-forth on Capitol Hill with Republicans. We were watching it play out in the Senate.
We were saying, all week here, and last week, that the idea of Republicans actually defying Trump, and not getting his megabill passed here, just seems to defy logic, especially in terms of what we've seen they vote yes on, despite reservations before. This idea that they're not going to vote for this seems incredibly unlikely at this point.
TALCOTT: That's the White House's whole argument, right? Do you want to go up against Donald Trump, even with someone like Elon Musk in your corner?
Because remember, when I talk about that argument that maybe some Republicans might feel more emboldened to not support this bill, because they have Elon Musk backing them? At the same time, the Tesla shares have been plummeting amid this.
So, there is the question of, is Elon Musk popular enough for these lawmakers to sort of side with him and go against Donald Trump? When time and time again, we've seen Donald Trump, really, has a hold on this party.
COLLINS: Thomas Massie maybe the test case here. We'll see.
Shelby Talcott. Michael Scherer. Great reporting, and great to have you.
Up next here for us. The President was joking about migrant detainees being eaten by alligators, as he was visiting this new makeshift detention facility in the Everglades today. My congressional source tonight is saying no, to having this facility in her backyard.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump learned today that the Senate had passed his megabill, while he was about a 1,000 miles away from the White House, touring what officials in Florida have deemed Alligator Alcatraz.
A newly-constructed migrant detention center, in the middle of the Florida Everglades, where officials say that the makeshift facility, that it's equipped with caged bunk beds, will be able to house up to 3,000 migrants, as they await deportation from the United States.
They're touting it as a low-cost way to deter migrants from escaping. The airstrip the compound sits on, as you can see here, is surrounded by pythons and alligators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: With the "Alligator Alcatraz"--
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: --is the idea that if some illegal immigrant escapes, they just get eaten by an alligator or a snake or something?
TRUMP: I guess that's the concept. This is not a nice business. I guess that's the concept. If you, you know, snakes are fast. But alligators are much -- we're going to teach them how to run away from an alligator, OK, if they escape prison. How to run away? Don't run in a straight line. Run like this. And you know what? Your chances go up about 1 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Democratic congresswoman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, whose district is right next door to the facility. And she also co-chairs the Everglades Caucus.
So, it's great to have you here tonight.
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: You hear what the President is arguing there about this serving as a deterrent.
[21:50:00]
But what Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, is also arguing, and he was with the President today, is that this is meant to alleviate burdens on the state's law enforcement and immigration forces, as they are trying to deal with the immigration issue, and this influx of people they are holding, amid the deportation crackdown.
Does he have a point in there at all? How do you see this?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: First of all, this is not remotely low-cost. $450 million, at least annually, a cost to the state, which, by the way, is not a federal responsibility. The average cost per prisoner is double the annual average, will be a $150,000 per detainee.
This is being plunked into the middle of the Florida Everglades, on an airstrip that was abandoned, all the way back in the 70s, when they envisioned building this mega airport. But it was deemed so environmentally sensitive, and there was so much opposition, that they abandoned the whole concept, years ago, decades ago.
Now, they're dropping this structure into the middle of the Everglades, on environmentally-sensitive land, on tribal lands that are sacred. No consultation with the Miccosukee tribe or Seminole Tribe of Indians.
We are just at the beginning of hurricane season. You saw what those structure's like. Those would blow away like matches in a hurricane. I mean, what are they -- they're going to -- how are they going to get the detainees out of there?
COLLINS: Yes. Well when--
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I mean, this is--
COLLINS: When Governor--
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: --an abomination.
COLLINS: When Governor DeSantis says it's a deterrent, that it can -- it could force people to self-deport. What do you say to that?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: That's preposterous. We have people who have come to this country, fled the worst circumstances, the most dangerous conditions, oppression, they're trekking across the continent. And he thinks that housing them in a tent in the middle of the Everglades is going to be too much for them, so they're going to self-deport? This is not only dangerous.
We have had spent 25 years, investing billions of dollars, restoring the Florida Everglades. And they're dropping a lot of infrastructure, electricity, piping, water, in the middle of all of that effort, and it's going to upend decades of environmental restoration. That is unacceptable.
COLLINS: We've heard the environmental concerns from Democrats, and just criticisms over just the optics of this, overall.
Republicans are praising this, and they believe that they have voters on their side, when it comes to immigration. I mean, they point to numbers, like what we heard from the Department of Homeland Security, that zero people were released into the U.S., in the month of May, which is obviously a huge drop from the numbers, when you look at when President Biden was in office. It was 62,000 in May 2024.
What do you say to that in terms of, they have a bigger sway with voters on immigration, right now?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The President completely lied to the American people when he was running, and he said he was only going to go after the most dangerous, violent people who were undocumented immigrants.
He just made nearly a million more documented immigrants, who had TPS or humanitarian parole, undocumented, overnight, by revoking TPS for half a million Haitians, and half a million Venezuelans. That created almost a million more undocumented immigrants. Is he going to start putting people who did everything right, and followed the rules and the law, is he going to house them in Alligator Alcatraz?
By the way, you don't hear anything at all about undocumented immigrants escaping from immigration facilities. They are people, for the most part, people who they've detained, followed the rules. They did what they were supposed to do. They're only here to try to make their life better, for them and their families. These are not violent criminals. Almost none of them that he has actually detained, since he started office, are in the category of people he said he'd prioritize.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, obviously this is very close to your neighborhood. So, thanks for joining us on this tonight.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Thank you. No cages in the Everglades.
COLLINS: Up next here. Zohran Mamdani has officially clinched victory in the Democratic primary for New York. What that means, and also what the White House is now saying about him tonight.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Before we go, three things you may have missed today.
Federal Reserve Chair, Jerome Powell, said the Fed would have likely lowered interest rates, this year, if it weren't for President Trump's significant policy changes, most notably tariffs.
The President has repeatedly criticized, and threatened Powell's job, for not lowering those interest rates. Just yesterday, he sent Powell a handwritten note, criticizing him for keeping interest rates higher than dozens of other nations, as we showcased here.
Also, the U.S. Agency for International Development, better known as USAID, has officially shut down tonight. A new study found that its elimination could contribute to 14 million deaths, in the next five years, nearly a third of which are estimated to be among children younger than 5-years-old.
And also, finally, tonight, Zohran Mamdani in New York has now officially clinched the Democratic primary, for Mayor of New York City.
Today, President Trump answered a question about what he'll do about Mamdani's promise to stand up to federal immigration enforcement.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well then we'll have to arrest him. Look, we don't need a communist in this country. But if we have one, I'm going to be watching over him, very carefully, on behalf of the nation.
We have a good Independent running, Mayor Adams, who's a very good person. I helped him out a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President also made a false claim about Mamdani's citizenship. I should note, he is a U.S. citizen, and he has been, since 2018.
Mamdani responded to the President, saying, and I'm quoting him now, "We will not accept this intimidation." And "Voters will resoundingly reject it in November."
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
