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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Congress Passes Trump's Sweeping Domestic Policy Megabill; Alternate Juror In Sean Combs Trial Speaks To CNN; Trump On Putin Call: "Didn't Make Any Progress" On Ukraine. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 03, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --few moments ago, he had this to say about his so-called big, beautiful bill, the spending increases in it for ICE, and the media coverage of today's victory in Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Deport the illegals and slash hundreds of billions of dollars of waste and fraud, and that's what we're doing. With this bill, every major promise I made to the people of Iowa, in 2024, became a promise kept.
You know, we -- actually, they had a report today on some crazy fake station, but it wasn't fake in this regard. They said, You know, this guy actually did more than he promised.
I did.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that's it for us. Have a safe and happy Fourth of July.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump's big, beautiful bill is just a signature away from becoming law.
I'm Jim Sciutto, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
This is a live look from Des Moines, Iowa, where President Trump is taking a victory lap after the passage of his so-called big, beautiful bill. It is an event, meant to kick off the one-year countdown to the nation's 250th birthday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There could be no better birthday present for America than the phenomenal victory we achieved, just hours ago, when Congress passed the one big, beautiful bill to make America great again.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: With this bill, every major promise I made to the people of Iowa, in 2024, became a promise kept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The White House is already planning what it calls a big, beautiful signing ceremony, tomorrow night, as the President celebrates the Fourth of July, meeting the deadline that he and House Speaker, Mike Johnson, imposed on themselves, one that many doubted they could actually meet, including the Vice President who tweeted today, At times I even doubted we'd get it done by July 4.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Everything was an absolute disaster under the Biden-Harris, radical, woke, progressive Democrat regime. And we took the best effort that we could, in one big, beautiful bill, to fix as much of it as we could. And I am so grateful to God that we got that done as we did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
JOHNSON: Because of the dedication, yes.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Speaker Johnson did deliver on time, but not under budget.
The enormous bill is estimated to add more than $3 trillion to the nation's debt, over the next 10 years, this, according to the Congressional Budget Office, which is why it took public and private arm-twisting, from GOP leaders and the President himself, to get it across the finish line.
Sources tell CNN that President Trump met with GOP holdouts, around the clock, over the last 24 hours, both in-person and on the phone, outlining the costs of failure in his closing message, as he sought to convince them to fall in line. And in the end, all but two Republicans did. A feat that President Trump said tonight, wasn't hard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you go over the bill, it was very easy to get them to a yes. You know, we went over that bill and point after point, biggest tax cut in history, great for security, great on the southern border. Immigration is covered. We covered just about everything. Again, it's the biggest bill ever signed of its kind.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: As for Democrats, they were powerless to stop what they are calling the largest cut to health care in American history, but not powerless to, at least, to delay the inevitable.
Before the final vote, Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, spoke for nearly nine hours on the House floor, breaking the modern-day record for longest House floor speech, and forcing Republicans, eager to get home for the holiday weekend, to at least stick around a bit longer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): I rise today in strong opposition to Donald Trump's one big, ugly bill.
This disgusting abomination, the GOP tax scam.
Millions of Americans who are eligible, who are hardworking, who are deserving, will lose their health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Millions of Americans are expected to lose Medicaid coverage and food stamps, perhaps some of you watching, right now, as a result of this bill. Those cuts will help pay for its more popular provisions, such as an extension of Trump's first term tax cuts, as well as boosts to national security, border security, et cetera.
But as The New York Times points out tonight, while the bill's tax breaks take effect this year, Republicans notably reserved benefit cuts until after the midterm elections. We're going to talk about that.
Right now, CNN's Arlette Saenz is live on Capitol Hill for us.
Arlette, so I wonder how much we expect the White House to celebrate this tomorrow, and how.
[21:05:00]
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, President Trump has described this as a phenomenal victory, and he is planning to sign this bill into law at 05:00 p.m. tomorrow. That bill signing will coincide with an already-planned event for the Fourth of July holiday. Of course, President Trump had urged GOP lawmakers to get this finished before that holiday.
And it really speaks to a major feat for both President Trump and House Speaker, Mike Johnson. They were able to stitch together GOP support for this, even though there were very differing factions within the GOP conference about this bill.
There were those who were concerned about this deep cuts to Medicaid, and others who were concerned that it simply added too much to the federal deficit. But in the end, so many of the GOP holdouts that we spoke to said that those meetings and phone calls with President Trump is what pushed them and sealed the deal for them on this bill. Now, even as they were able to muscle this through Capitol Hill, there were two notable GOP lawmakers, who voted against this in the House. That's Thomas Massie of Kentucky, and Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.
Massie had already drawn the ire of Trump, when he had voted against this bill in its first iteration, back in May. Trump promising to primary Massie in the midterm elections. And then Fitzpatrick comes from a very swingy district in Pennsylvania. He said he was concerned about the cuts to Medicaid.
So, this is something that all of these Republican lawmakers will have to grapple with, back home, as they are trying to sell this bill to their constituents. Democrats have already indicated that those cuts to Medicaid will be the center focus of their messaging, heading into those midterm elections.
For President Trump's part, he is hoping that the benefits of this bill that he believes that Americans will see that, and that will help Republicans in those midterms as well.
SCIUTTO: Well, perhaps Republicans acknowledging that by delaying the worst of those cuts till after the midterms.
Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.
I do want to bring in now, Democratic congressman, Ro Khanna of California.
And Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.
Good to have you both on. Thanks so much for taking--
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Thank you.
SCIUTTO: --for taking time this night -- tonight.
Shermichael, first to you. Five major polls showed that this bill deeply underwater with the American people. Is this good for Republicans?
SINGLETON: Well, I think, it depends, right?
I think the Republican argument, in midterms, will be predicated upon economic growth. And if we get to the fourth quarter of this year, and the Fed chief lowers basis points increase at 75 percent -- or 0.75 percent, 75 basis points, we expect that to decrease, I think you'll see continued growth economically, credit cards, housing market, et cetera. People will actually probably feel that going into Q1, Q2, of 2026. That's probably going to be a very viable, strong message for conservatives and Republicans to run on.
Democrats, however, I would argue, just strategically speaking, is hoping that that is not the case. They're hoping that the economy constricts. They're hoping that pain persists. Because that is a very palatable and a strong message for them, going into midterms, if that is indeed the case.
SCIUTTO: Well Ro, are you satisfied with the fight that your party put up? For the second time, we saw a Democratic lawmaker make a really long floor speech, right? We saw Hakeem Jeffries do it this time. You saw Cory Booker a few weeks ago. But at the end of the day, the legislation gets passed. Should Democrats have done better?
KHANNA: Well, the old guard of the Democratic Party spent more time, this week, attacking Zohran Mamdani than they did attacking--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KHANNA: --Donald Trump's Medicaid cut. So, I was disappointed in that.
But look, Trump is right about one thing. It is the biggest bill ever. It's the biggest cut to Medicaid in the history of the program.
And here's what Americans are going to find out. Yes, they delayed some of the cuts. But right away, their premiums are going to go up if they're on the Affordable Care Act, because those subsidies are gone.
Second, the private insurance premiums are going to go up, because hospitals are going to have to charge private insurance more--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KHANNA: --in anticipation. And then rural hospitals are going to start to close. And I think people are going to see through the spin.
SCIUTTO: It's not just rural hospitals, too, Shermichael. My sister is a doctor in New York. She says that Medicaid cuts are going to mean that in New York City, they're not going to be able to serve people that they did prior. What's going to be the Republicans' answer to that?
SINGLETON: Well, the Senate did allot for, I believe, $50 billion to assure that rural hospitals and rural communities and towns would negatively be impacted by the bill. That's--
SCIUTTO: Millions of people will lose their health insurance.
SINGLETON: --I think that's a good thing.
Look, I think the framing of this, ultimately, Jim, is around whether we want a permanent class of Americans who are reliant upon subsidies, or a class of Americans who have the opportunity to earn work and the dignity of work.
And this is an argument that goes all the way back to the late 80s and early 90s, when Jack Kemp was in Congress, for goodness sakes, where Democrats and Republicans have had two different solutions for addressing the problem, as it pertains to our social safety net. And so, while I certainly respect the CBO's analysis, I disagree with it. I believe they're treating people like chess pieces versus human beings with agency and adaptability. They assume that if states say there are some work requirements, that people won't adapt, that people aren't resilient, that they won't do what's necessary. And I should remind people, there are still exemptions baked into this legislation for certain vulnerable people in our country.
KHANNA: Shermichael--
SCIUTTO: Your response?
[21:10:00]
KHANNA: Look, the tax breaks, 60 percent of them aren't going to people doing hard work. They're going to people who are sitting on capital, idle capital.
And in this country, people to work, need to have health care, they need to have food assistance. This is going to hurt the kids. Think about not the -- the family in a poverty track. They're not getting the health care, they're not getting food. Those kids growing up, they aren't going to get the shot to do what you and I did, to be able to get a good education, work hard, have the American Dream.
And so, what Democrats believe is you give people basics, health care, food, and then you expect them to work hard, and you reward the hard work. People are producing things, not just idle capital.
SINGLETON: I agree with you, Congressman. And I think most Republicans and Democrats alike would agree that you want to make sure that Americans, who are right above or beneath the poverty line have every single capability and opportunity to rise above it. I think we have different solutions for that process.
And again, what conservatives are arguing is that if there are a certain number of people in our country, who could potentially do a little bit more? Should we not require a little bit more? I really think that's the framing of the argument.
SCIUTTO: Well the--
KHANNA: Go ahead.
SCIUTTO: Well, there's another issue here, right, which is the cost of this.
SINGLETON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: And don't take my word for it. I want to play some comments from Republican lawmakers, prior to the passage of the bill. Republican lawmakers who previously were against it before they were for it. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): So this whole thing is -- I don't know what to call it -- it's a (bleep) show.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): My colleagues in the Senate failed us. My colleagues in the Senate failed us.
REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I think the Founders and the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence would be astounded that we're adding debt to our children who -- and grandchildren who are defenseless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: No solution to the debt problem in what just passed.
SINGLETON: You know, look, I have written a lot about this. I'm a conservative. I certainly don't believe in adding to the debt.
My position on this is that the Executive, meaning the Trump administration, they have long argued, and many of the President's supporters have long argued, that they are basing their presumptions on expected growth.
And so, if you look at the static scoring of the C -- Congressional Budget Office, which is saying, Look, the fixed data of the past suggests that we are going to add. The President is arguing, Well, if you look at dynamic scoring, dynamic scoring is assessing and predicting growth, which means we're going to have some growth that somewhat--
SCIUTTO: But history has never -- the history has never backed that up. I mean--
SINGLETON: --that somewhat offsets expenditures. And so, I could see both framings of those arguments. I think it depends on what scoring methodology you want to trust--
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Well--
KHANNA: Shermichael has got -- he's such a good communicator. He just got a tough hand. He's trying to make a full lesson--
SINGLETON: Yes.
KHANNA: --on here.
But look, the reality is that you can't say in 2017 that the tax cuts are the same, the tax breaks are the same. By the way, they're more for the wealthy. And then say that somehow there's going to be growth now, and there wasn't growth in 2017. We saw the story.
You know what corporations did? They put that money in stock buybacks. They put that money to take away their debt. They didn't invest in the United States. Economic growth never boomed. The reality is you have to cut spending and you have to raise taxes.
SINGLETON: Well, Congressman, I agree with you that we actually should attempt to mandate that corporations do invest in the American people, that they do invest in the new generation of workers who are going to be a part of that $16 trillion growing consumer economy. We're on the same page, there.
SCIUTTO: Is there any requirement to do so in this bill?
SINGLETON: Not in this bill, Jim.
SCIUTTO: It's the big, beautiful--
SINGLETON: But that -- but those are my personal beliefs.
KHANNA: You should run for Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: Dude, you'd be better than some of these folks.
I mean, look, I mean, the reality on the -- on the deficit, you may disagree. I mean, I put out a plan of $12 trillion deficit reduction. I said, we'll cut fossil fuel subsidies, we'll cut prescription drug costs, we'll cut defense, and here's how we're going to increase taxes. In my view--
SINGLETON: I agree on prescriptions. I'm hesitant on defense, particularly looking at China and their advancements and expenditures there. Our fossil fuels, I'm sort of mixed on that one, Congressman. I certainly think there is something about renewables, and America should certainly lead that in terms of technology.
KHANNA: But the subsidies.
SINGLETON: The fossil fuels are still important.
KHANNA: But what -- but what -- of course, they are. But they don't need to be subsidized. And what about just taxing some of the more of the billionaires in my district? They can pay more tax.
SINGLETON: All right, OK.
KHANNA: They keep sending me back.
SCIUTTO: I will say, as a note of fact, the 2017 tax cut, the budget deficit went from 3.1 percent in 2016 to 4.6 percent in 2019. Just for a recent reference to it.
SINGLETON: But do we know what it -- do we know what it increased to, after the last four years of the previous President? Just asking.
SCIUTTO: Well, to be fair, you are right. Both parties increased the size of the deficit. On that one, you're on equal footing.
Congressman Ro Khanna. Shermichael. Thanks so much to both of you.
SINGLETON: Thanks, Jim. SCIUTTO: Coming up next. A CNN exclusive interview with an alternate juror from the Sean "Diddy" Combs federal trial. My legal source tonight, one of the attorneys who defended O. J. Simpson weighs in.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Tonight, an alternate juror in the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial speaking out exclusively to CNN, about the high-profile case, and what it was like to see the final verdict handed down, yesterday.
After seven weeks of intense, sometimes, graphic testimony, jurors found Combs guilty of two prostitution related charges, but acquitted him of two of the most serious charges, racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking.
Here's CNN's Laura Coates with an alternate juror who followed the case from beginning to end.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You were an alternate. You did not deliberate. But did you agree with the final verdict?
GEORGE, ALTERNATE JUROR IN DIDDY TRIAL: I understood the final verdict, and I think if I -- you know, because I took a copious amount of notes, overall, like 350 pages worth of notes.
[21:20:00]
Because, at the end, we weren't told who was an alternate, who was the main juror, until literally the last second, when they were reading the entire -- when the judge was reading his entire statement, at the end, he was like, The first 12 of you are the jurors, the last five are the alternates. So, we didn't know. We didn't -- even in the jury room, no one treated -- everyone, we all were equal, because we didn't know who was who, so.
COATES: Would you have acquitted him on RICO?
GEORGE: I think -- I think reading all my notes, and looking back at the evidence, I probably would have reached the same conclusion as the -- as the other jurors. I would have--
COATES: What was it about that charge?
GEORGE: I don't -- you know, the thing with the -- when it -- you know, because we were asked, and the judge had instructed us that we have to find, you know, we have to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think there was always a little bit of doubt in people's mind.
And I don't think -- I think it was a tough case to prove, especially the first one. And, you know, there was always a little bit of doubt there, even from, I think, from the beginning. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: My legal source tonight is attorney, Carl Douglas, who is no stranger to high-profile criminal cases, former defense attorney in the O. J. Simpson murder trial.
Carl, thanks so much for joining.
CARL DOUGLAS, ATTORNEY: Jim, thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: So Carl, first to what we had heard there, from the alternate juror, saying that from the beginning, the jury was skeptical. There was at least a reasonable doubt about the most ambitious charge, if you could call it that, of prosecutors of the racketeering case.
Did you see that similarly, that that -- they just didn't prove it?
DOUGLAS: Clearly, Jim, this was, in my opinion, a case of the U.S. Attorney choosing to overcharge Sean Combs for these charges.
And remember, the jury did not decide whether he was guilty or innocent. But more importantly, whether the prosecution had proven the charges against him beyond a reasonable doubt.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DOUGLAS: The racketeering charges were always the most complex and most difficult. So, I'm not surprised that the jurors thought that there was always a difficulty and prove being beyond reasonable doubt.
SCIUTTO: Now, given the level of publicity, certainly there have been a lot of comparisons made to the O. J. Simpson case. I mean, even after the verdict was read, you had people in the courtroom shouting, Dream Team. That, you'll be familiar with--
DOUGLAS: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --with a reference to the nickname -- nickname your defense team had, representing O. J. Simpson at the time.
Do you see parallels between the two cases?
DOUGLAS: Well, certainly, Jim, I never stopped what I was doing to listen to a verdict being read, count by count, since October 3rd of 1995 until yesterday.
SCIUTTO: Wow.
DOUGLAS: So certainly, there was the capturing of the -- of the entire community, the entire country, waiting to hear what this verdict was. That you had a prominent African American celebrity, facing the justice system, who had the resources to hire great lawyers to try to do everything in their power to find their client acquitted, was also a similarity that I could not ignore.
SCIUTTO: We should note, you actually represented a member of Diddy's inner circle who was on the witness list in this trial. In the end, your client didn't testify. The defense, of course, didn't call any witnesses, including Diddy himself, notably, the way, O. J. did not testify at his trial.
Do you think that made a difference in the outcome here?
DOUGLAS: Well, clearly, when you have a trial of this complexity, and of this length, you want to keep the focus on the burden of the prosecution to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
If Sean had testified, every movement that he made would be analyzed and hyper-analyzed, every mistake that he might make, that was innocent, would be used against him. So clearly, his lawyers were certain, and they made a good judgment to make sure that the jury focused on the prosecution's case.
One other thing important to understand. It's difficult for we, laypeople, who are not there in the courtroom, to understand how certain witnesses come about. Because every reporter, you included, I'm sure, will filter the information through the prism of their own perspective.
So only, if you're there, with the jury, listening to every question that was asked, listening to every answer that was given, can you really get a feel for how things were going on--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DOUGLAS: --inside the courtroom.
SCIUTTO: No question.
As Diddy awaits sentencing? Of course, that's the next step. There is a mountain of civil lawsuits against him, to date, at least 70 lawsuits accusing him of sexual violence. How do you think those will be work worked out? And do you think Diddy could be back in court for civil trials?
[21:25:00]
DOUGLAS: Well, certainly, I would expect that there's a likelihood that his attorneys may want to appeal even the two convictions that he sustained in this case. While that case is on appeal, I expect that they will continue to resist any efforts to take his deposition, or to have him answer any questions under oath. Hopefully, in that time, an appeal could last two--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DOUGLAS: --even three years or longer, there may be a mechanism, a way, for them to resolve the bulk of these cases without subjecting him to any further courtroom antic, like you saw in this matter.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
Carl Douglas, we appreciate you joining us. DOUGLAS: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: This Saturday, please tune into a special edition of "THE WHOLE STORY." "THE CASE AGAINST DIDDY." 08:00 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on CNN.
Coming up next. My White House insiders are here. What they are hearing from sources, about President's successful pressure campaign to get his megabill across the finish line.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Nearly six months into his second term, President Trump's political power and grip on the GOP seems as strong as ever, perhaps even stronger. His pressure campaign of threats, and assurances, to get reluctant Republicans to support his sweeping bill, paid off. And he says getting those noes to vote yes came easy and with no strings attached, he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What were those deals?
TRUMP: No deals, no deals. What I did is we talked about how good the bill is. I mean, that's a deal, I guess, when you think about it. But obviously, convinced them. But it was not hard. This is a great bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: While the President says no deals were made on the House side, Alaska's Lisa Murkowski definitely got some major concessions for her crucial yes-vote in the Senate.
And there's Republican tension over the influence of those House Republican holdouts who, despite their fierce criticisms, well, they voted for the bill anyway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): They called their own bluff. How many times have they done this? I mean, I've been in Congress for two years and five seconds, and they pulled the same stunt 19 times. So, they're over. The influence of the Freedom Caucus is over.
REPORTER: Why did you change?
REP. ANDY HARRIS (R-MD): Because we got a package that I think would -- have turned out better than what we would have gotten, had we sent this bill back over to the Senate.
REPORTER: But is that caving?
HARRIS: Winning is caving? Well, if winning is caving, then I guess we caved. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: My source tonight was once a key holdout against President Trump's 2017 tax cut bill. Former Republican senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake.
Senator, thanks so much for taking the time.
JEFF FLAKE, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR FOR ARIZONA, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY: Thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: So you, of course, voted yes to the 2017 tax cuts in the end, after being a key holdout. Would you have voted yes on this bill?
FLAKE: No, no. In terms of fiscal responsibility, this is just beyond the pale, I think. When you look at what it does over the next 10 years, adds $3 trillion -- $3.4 trillion, I think CBO estimates. And that, we have to realize, is in addition to the $20-or-so trillion that we will already add to the debt during the next 10 years.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FLAKE: So, that's just a small portion of what we're going to be adding. So, it's just amazing to see this done with Republican control of both the House and the Senate.
SCIUTTO: As I'm sure you're familiar, the Republican response to that statistic, the CBO, the non-partisan CBO estimates, is consistently, We're going to grow our way out of it. We're going to have so much economic growth--
FLAKE: Right.
SCIUTTO: --tax revenues will rise, and that will zero out the numbers.
Are they misleading, when they say that?
FLAKE: Well, I'm as supply side as the next guy. I believe that you can't have dynamic scoring and do better, but not that much better. It depends on which taxes you cut. Obviously, capital gains tax cuts tend to have a better effect, in terms of paying for themselves. But just extending the current tax cuts, I don't think you can argue that you're going to make it all up in growth.
Certainly, there's going to be some growth. I think the regulatory changes in this legislation bode well for the economy. There are some things that will bode well. But in the end, still, it is not quite fiscally responsible.
SCIUTTO: Senate Republicans pushed off the most severe Medicaid and food stamp cuts until after the 2026 midterms, which would seem to acknowledge that they know those cuts are damaging for voters here.
FLAKE: Right.
SCIUTTO: Will Republicans eventually pay, politically, for those benefits cuts?
FLAKE: Well, once people have a benefit in whatever form -- I remember Barack Obama with the Affordable Care Act, he told people that, If you have insurance, you can keep it, you can keep your doctor and whatnot. And in the end, people couldn't. And Democrats paid a huge political price.
I assume here, people who have insurance through Medicaid, you can make all the arguments you want about work requirements and whatever else. But people who have care and then lose it are not going to be happy about it. So, I think there will be a price to pay. I think Thom Tillis and others looked at that pretty carefully, and were concerned about it.
SCIUTTO: You heard a Congressman there say that the Freedom Caucus is in effect over. And one can understand his point, at least on principle, right? That here you have a group of a couple dozen--
FLAKE: Right.
[21:35:00]
SCIUTTO: --House Republicans who said, More debt shall not stand.
And here we are, more debt. I mean, does debt--
FLAKE: Yes, it--
SCIUTTO: --matter to this Republican Party?
FLAKE: Yes, it's tough to argue that it does. I mean, when you pass a bill like this, when you're in control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, and to try to argue that you're fiscally conservative? That's just a dog-don't-hunt-anymore. So, it's really difficult to see.
And I just -- if you're not going to do it now, when are you going to do it? And we aren't facing a big calamity, in terms of COVID spending or anything else that has to go on.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FLAKE: If you can't -- if you can't cut the deficit here, then you're just not going to do it.
SCIUTTO: Final question, if I can. In this bill, a real effort to take away, really, any green energy subsidies, which has been a real target of this President's. As you know, the leading economy in renewable energy and EVs, et cetera, is becoming China more and more. And I wonder, do you find that attack, in effect, on renewable energy, green energy projects, et cetera, will ultimately--
FLAKE: Right.
SCIUTTO: --be to the detriment of the U.S. economy? FLAKE: Well, you got to find a balance here. Obviously, you don't want to cede that ground to China, completely, in terms of solar panels and renewables.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FLAKE: And so, I think we've done well, in terms of research and seeding these industries. But of course, at some point, they've got to stand on their own. You can't continue through industrial policy to subsidize certain parts of the economy and not others. So, this is a tough one. You just have to find the right balance. We'll see if they did here.
SCIUTTO: Senator and, I should say, Ambassador, Jeff Flake -- Jeff Flake, thanks so much for joining us tonight. And a Happy Fourth to you and your family.
FLAKE: You too.
SCIUTTO: I want to bring in now, two deeply-sourced White House insiders.
Semafor's Shelby Talcott.
And Politico's Dasha burns.
Good to have you both on tonight. Thanks so much for joining.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, Semafor: Thanks for having us.
SCIUTTO: So Dasha, first to you. Trump set this July 4th deadline, which seemed a bridge too far until even a few days ago, right? And yet, he got this across the finish line. And those holdouts, most of them disappeared. What did it take to get this done?
DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO, PODCAST HOST, "THE CONVERSATION WITH DASHA BURNS": Well, there was a lot of skepticism that this was going to happen on July -- by July 4th.
I will tell you, though, that the people closest to the President, the most senior staff in the West Wing, time and again, said to me, This is going to happen by July 4th. Just wait. Just watch. And indeed, it did. And part of that confidence came from what they believe the President could do to push some of these holdouts over the finish line.
I reported today, with my colleague, Megan Messerly, that President Trump spent 20 hours, on and off, on the phone, using what one source described as both carrots and sticks with lawmakers, basically trying to address some of their concerns, saying, We'll do things via executive order to remedy some concerns, but also making examples of folks.
And you saw what happened with Senator Tillis. And there's no coincidence about the announcement of a massive war chest that the President has, to influence the primaries.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BURNS: He announced that recently, and that was a plan to make sure that people knew where the power stood. And now, the White House really does feel like they have the wind at their backs, and you're seeing that on display in Iowa tonight.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, we heard the President, earlier in the broadcast, say there were no deals. Fact is, in a lot of reporting, that there were deals.
But Shelby, I wonder, in your reporting, was it more carrot or more stick, more threats, more, You will get primaried if you don't vote for this?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: I think it was certainly a little bit of both.
But I do think in this situation, there was a lot of charisma being used by the President. He held meetings, throughout the week. As Dasha said, he was talking to lawmakers, a ton, over the past few days, on the phone, and really trying to entice them. The New York Times, earlier, reporting that he was sort of giving out memorabilia, during one of these meetings.
And that, I think people forget how charismatic the President can be, and also the relationship that he has with lawmakers. He's so close with some of these lawmakers, and that's a really unique situation for a president to be in, oftentimes. And he really used that to his advantage.
And I think the combination of the President sort of using these carrots, but also these lawmakers seeing what happens when some of these folks go against the President, how he will very quickly hop on Truth Social--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
TALCOTT: --and you might wake up to a negative post, or somebody threatening to primary you. That combination made it very difficult for Republicans to ultimately vote against this bill.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, fear has worked for this President.
[21:40:00]
Dasha, I do want to play a moment, from just a short time ago, at the President's rally in Iowa. He was just about 20 minutes into his speech, tonight, when a loud noise caught his and the crowd's attention. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: 401(k)s and retirement accounts just hit an all-time record high. (LIKELY FIREWORK NOISE)
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Did I hear what I think I heard?
Because I have never seen any country suffer. No country has ever -- there's never -- don't worry, it's only fireworks, I hope. Famous last words.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: My famous last words, Trump said, Don't worry, it's only fireworks.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You always have to think positive. I didn't like that sound either, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Dasha, you were in Butler, Pennsylvania, during the assassination attempt, last July. Quite a moment tonight.
BURNS: Quite a moment, especially considering we're just about a week or so away from the one-year anniversary of what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania. That really, number one, was traumatizing for so many folks who were there, and people who were watching.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BURNS: I was texting with some of the people that I know who were in Butler, who were on the ground there today, just asking, if people are all right.
Because I do remember, at the RNC, which was right after the incident at Butler, when the balloon drop happened, even some of the President's staff was a little bit rattled by that.
But it is also a moment that, as we now look back, did cement him as this fighter. And he has been fighting really hard, whether it's this bill -- getting this bill passed through Congress, whether it's what we're seeing with his foreign policy, whether it's what we're seeing with the courts, with his fights with universities. I mean, this is a president and an administration that has really been defined by the fight ever -- really, ever since that moment.
SCIUTTO: Well, Shelby Talcott, Dasha Burns, thanks so much for joining. And happy Fourth to both of you.
TALCOTT: You too.
BURNS: Thank you, Jim. SCIUTTO: Coming up next. President Trump holds a crucial phone call with Russian president, Vladimir Putin. What the President had to say, when asked if they made any progress on ending the war in Ukraine.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Breaking tonight in Ukraine, the capital, Kyiv, facing a massive wave of Russian missile and drone strike.
City officials say at least 13 locations around Kyiv have been hit, including residential areas, in what has been now an hours-long attack. Right now, people still sheltering belowground as sirens sound above. So far, at least eight people have been reported injured.
The timing of this attack is notable, given that President Trump spoke to Russian president, Vladimir Putin, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had a call. It was a pretty long call. We talked about a lot of things, including Iran, and we also talked about, as you know, the war with Ukraine. And I'm not happy about that.
REPORTER: Do you feel like you made any progress with him?
TRUMP: No, I didn't make any progress with him today at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now, my intelligence and military sources.
Beth Sanner, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence.
And retired U.S. Air Force Colonel, Cedric Leighton.
So Beth Sanner, U.S. President has a conversation with Vladimir Putin today. And hours later, Russia launches a quite sizable strike on Ukraine. Is that a message to the U.S. President, or at a minimum, is it least defying U.S. pressure?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Yes and yes. And it's a consistent pressure.
I mean, if you look back, and I have, along with Cedric here, if you look back at every time that he said, Stop Vladimir, or made a call? He strikes, Putin strikes again within the next day. I mean, the worst thing -- I get why this administration wants to keep the dialog open. But Putin responds every time with a finger.
SCIUTTO: Right.
SANNER: And, at some point, I mean, if I were in Ukraine, I'd be like, Stop calling President Putin, because it rains missiles down on us. SCIUTTO: I mean, it's fair that you mentioned Ukraine. Because President Trump has been willing to apply pressure to Ukraine, that he's not been willing to apply to Russia, who, by the way, is the aggressor, invaded Ukraine.
And again, just in the last several days, we understand it, that the U.S. is now pausing weapons shipments, specifically air defense missiles, which are quite necessary tonight over Kyiv.
That imbalance, does that make sense strategically?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): No, it does not, Jim.
And I think one of the key things here is that the only thing that Putin would understand is force in return for force.
SCIUTTO: Right.
LEIGHTON: In other words, what really needs to happen is the exact opposite of what's doing. We need to speed up the shipment of weapons. We need to speed up the delivery of Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine. And make it very clear to the Russians that they have no chance of beating Ukraine. That would have to be the--
SCIUTTO: Right.
LEIGHTON: --way to do this.
[21:50:00]
SCIUTTO: But you have been saying that. U.S. Democratic and Republican lawmakers have been saying that. Leaders of our closest European allies have been saying that for months and years. And Trump, is it -- whether he's hearing the message or not? We don't know. But he's not acting on that message.
Is it past time now--
SANNER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --for Ukraine and its European allies to say, We cannot rely on the U.S. for this kind of support?
SANNER: Well, look, Trump has been giving a two-week deadline, since April 24th.
SCIUTTO: Right.
SANNER: And it's been a moving deadline. I think we've given enough time. The question is, what is he going to do? What the Europeans can do and Ukraine can do, they are. But there are limits.
SCIUTTO: Right.
SANNER: Because they don't -- they're not producing air defense missiles. They don't have Patriots that they can churn out. I think that the intelligence relationship is going to stay. It's cheap. DOD doesn't control it. But I think that in terms of air defenses and HIMARS and some things that are exquisitely--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SANNER: --and only the United States? This is a problem. They at least have to accept the idea, at the White House, that the Europeans can fund and buy this equipment for Ukraine, and that's kind of the only way that people are thinking there's a way out here.
SCIUTTO: And they seem that, that -- they seem to believe that's a way to appeal to the President, right? Because it would be business for U.S. defense contractors.
SANNER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: What the President says, and he said it again this today, that seems to be the reason why the DOD is conducting a review of these weapons supplies, is that U.S. supplies are short.
LEIGHTON: Right.
SCIUTTO: Is that true?
LEIGHTON: In part, it is. And one of the problems that we have is the defense industrial base. Now, there has been a movement to ramp up the production of artillery shells, especially the 155-millimeter variety.
SCIUTTO: Right. Yes, but that's a long pass now. We're talking about defense--
LEIGHTON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --air defense systems.
LEIGHTON: Now and what -- what they really need to do is make sure that the Patriots get there. There was -- there were weapon systems in Poland that were ready to deliver to Ukraine that were stopped.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
LEIGHTON: And that is really unacceptable for this situation.
SCIUTTO: They were right across the border. And you can imagine, I wonder, if some of them might have been flying in the air tonight. Right?
LEIGHTON: Exactly.
SCIUTTO: Cedric Leighton. Beth Sanner. Thanks so much to both of you.
Well, after days of arm-twisting, President Trump's push to get his megabill across the finish line paid off. A behind-the-scenes look at the very busy week at the White House, coming up.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: It has been a consequential week, here in Washington, all leading up to today's passage of the President's sweeping domestic policy bill.
Before we go, we want to show you what it was like, behind-the-scenes, at the White House, as Kaitlan Collins was reporting this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): The effect of this bill is to break a promise.
ON SCREEN TEXT: MONDAY, JUNE 30.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: You can see the Marine standing, over my left shoulder. That means President Trump is inside the West Wing.
He's been on the phone with lawmakers, on that end of Pennsylvania Avenue. Right now, they're still trying to get Republicans over the line, in the Senate, to muster enough support for this bill.
The White House press secretary just responded to Senator Thom Tillis, the Republican who recently announced he's not running for reelection, after he said that President Trump is misinformed about what's in this bill.
TILLIS: What do I tell 663,000 people, when President Trump breaks his promise by pushing them off of Medicaid?
COLLINS: Can you talk about the Alligator Alcatraz visit tomorrow? Are you going?
TOM HOMAN, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BORDER CZAR, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Great facility. We can't wait for it to open. We'll put aliens in there as soon as we can.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Meanwhile, Elon Musk is back on X, blasting President Trump's agenda.
COLLINS: Yes, Jake, and saying that anyone who has advocated to be a fiscal hawk, to say they want to reduce the federal deficit and the debt. He said, They will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.
Did you ever think that you and Elon Musk would find yourself on the same side, advocating against a bill?
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): What can I say? Hell has frozen over a second time. Look, but Elon Musk is right. The idea of borrowing $3.5 trillion to be able to give tax breaks to the likes of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos is financially nuts. ON SCREEN TEXT: TUESDAY, JULY 1.
TRUMP: We might have to put DOGE on Elon. DOGE is the monster that have -- that might have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that be terrible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill just passed.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Ooh. Thank you. Wow.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: It shows that I care about you, because I'm here and I probably should be there.
COLLINS: Does the White House want the House to make any changes to it? Or do you guys want them to pass it as is?
RUSSELL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: We need to pass this bill. We need to get it to the President's desk.
TAPPER: President Trump says he thinks it's going to be easier to pass the bill in the House than it was in the Senate. I don't -- how does he figure?
COLLINS: Right now, we're seeing opposition from several Republicans who are saying that they are voting no, or that they have deep skepticism and questions about it.
ON SCREEN TEXT: WEDNESDAY, JULY 2.
COLLINS: House Republican after House Republican has entered the West Wing, through this driveway, right behind me, coming in for meeting after meeting with President Trump, as the White House has been trying to work these Republicans who, right now, are a no, on the President's megabill, or at least deeply skeptical of it.
Basically, all activity on Capitol Hill has been frozen until they can get more Republicans over into the yes column.
Now there are two different kinds of noes here. Right now, there are hardliners who are worried about how much this bill could add to the deficit. And there is also Republicans who are worried about cuts to Medicaid, and how that could ultimately affect constituents, back home in their state.
[22:00:00]
It is very clear what Speaker Mike Johnson is doing here, which is relying on the President's political muscle, to get this ultimately over the line on Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCIUTTO: And with the President set to sign his megabill tomorrow, we saw just how effective that political muscle was. In the end, he got what he wanted, and on the deadline he wanted.
Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Jim Sciutto, in Washington.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
