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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Says He's Suing WSJ "Shortly" Over Epstein Report; Trump Says He Directed DOJ To "Produce Any And All Pertinent Grand Jury Testimony" On Epstein; CBS Ending "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert" Next Year. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 17, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": --I am not always, but it's the most positive thing to do, then you have to be grateful for all of it. It's, you can't pick and choose what you're grateful for.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
COLBERT: And then -- so, what do you get from loss? You get awareness of other people's loss.
COOPER: Well, that's true, and--
COLBERT: --which allows you to connect with that other person.
COOPER: Right.
COLBERT: Which allows you to love more deeply, and to understand what it's like to be a human being, if it's true that all humans suffer.
COOPER: Right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That was Stephen Colbert. I talked with him more about loss and grief on the first season of my podcast, "All There Is." I encourage you to listen to that as well.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: As we come on the air tonight, President Trump is fuming from the White House, as the Jeffrey Epstein saga is now reaching new heights, including this.
Published, late this evening, from The Wall Street Journal, reporting on what it calls a bawdy letter from Donald Trump to Jeffrey Epstein, for Epstein's 50th birthday. According to this new report, in The Wall Street Journal tonight, the letter is framed by the outline of a naked woman and says, quote, "The letter concludes: 'Happy Birthday - and may every day be another wonderful secret.'"
President Trump has furiously denied writing this letter, or drawing the picture that The Journal is reporting on tonight, telling The Journal in an interview that he did, quote, "This is not me. This is a fake thing. It's a fake Wall Street Journal story." The President says, I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women. It's not my language. It's not my words.
And just moments before we came on the air tonight, the President posted this on Truth Social, and I want to quote part of this lengthy post, where he said, The Wall Street Journal, and Rupert Murdoch, personally, were warned directly by President Donald J. Trump that the supposed letter they printed by President Trump to Epstein was a FAKE and, if they print it, they will be sued. Trump goes on to say, Mr. Murdoch stated that he would take care of it but, obviously, did not have the power to do so.
The Editor of The Wall Street Journal, Emma Tucker, was told directly by Karoline Leavitt, and by President Trump, that the letter was a FAKE, but Emma Tucker didn't want to hear that. Instead, they are going with a false, malicious, and defamatory story anyway. President Trump will be suing The Wall Street Journal, NewsCorp, and Mr. Murdoch, shortly.
The President saying there that he is going to personally sue Rupert Murdoch, someone who has been a longtime ally and supporter of his. This is just breaking tonight, as we are coming on the air.
I want to get straight to my White House insiders who are with me tonight.
Jasmine Wright from NOTUS.
The Atlantic's Michael Scherer.
And CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
And Brian, given that last point there, by President Trump, I want to start with you. But I think we should say, you know, the White House is obviously disputing this. The Vice President JD Vance is saying that this is BS, and they were not shown this alleged letter before The Wall Street Journal published its contents.
But obviously, it's not a crime to do so. I think that it would have been back in 2003, when Jeffrey Epstein turned 50. The allegations against him were not publicly known, at least not in any kind of formal criminal way, as we saw later come out.
But I wonder, just given this, and given the backlash we have seen this administration facing tonight, from Republicans, and from their MAGA-faithful saying they want more documents to come out. First off, just Brian, your thoughts on the President's post tonight.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Well, the President believes he has a superpower.
He believes he has a legal superpower, because of the recent lawsuits that he's settled with Disney and Paramount.
And he believes he has a rhetorical superpower, the ability to tell his supporters that anything he doesn't like is fake. That's why he was using the word, hoax, earlier this week. In fact, I believe he was using the word, hoax, because he knew this Wall Street Journal report was in the works.
This story did not develop just in an hour or two. The Wall Street Journal reporters have been working on this for days. So, the President, perhaps, knowing that this might come out, started to claim that the whole Epstein affair was a hoax. That's a word that he believes is a superpower to shut down conversation, to turn off people's brains and to get them to move on.
The problem, however, is that, in this case, that rhetorical superpower doesn't really work very well, because The Wall Street Journal story includes kind of both damning, you might say, but also just uncomfortable, right, embarrassing details. These quotes make people's skin kind of crawl, and I'm sure anti-Trump folks are already going to print them on bumper stickers.
So rhetorically, he's weak. And then on the legal front, his claim about a lawsuit -- yes, he was able to sue CBS and get some money for his library. But in this case, a lawsuit is not going to change what has already been published. And this is one of those cases, where he simply does not have a strong legal case against The Journal or Murdoch, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Well, and Michael Scherer, when you look at this. We knew that Trump and Epstein knew each other previously. There are pictures of them together, quotes about them -- about each other to magazines.
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I think the question, and maybe the problem for the White House, is they have been trying to make this story go away, and to at least tamp it down and say that people should stop talking about it. It's not exactly going to quiet the fervor that has been building on Capitol Hill tonight.
MICHAEL SCHERER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: No, I don't think it will.
And I think it's notable that despite the denial of President Trump, there's no denial from the Justice Department here. There's no denial from Pam Bondi, that this was in the voluminous records they said they reviewed, which is a separate question here. He could say he never wrote this letter, he never saw this letter. But if it was found in a bound book, as was described by The Journal, that presents a different question.
I think this is really the beginning of this discussion. If a lawsuit goes forward, that leads to discovery, that leads to more information coming forward. I think Congress is going to want information.
It's interesting that a lot of the MAGA influencers who were upset at President Trump for not releasing more Epstein materials have come out tonight, saying they don't believe this. So, it's going to probably further divide Trump's base.
But it's hard to imagine a scenario where, in a week or two, we know no more about this situation than we know now. I mean, this is a sort of thing that's easy to produce more information about. Did this book exist? Where did it exist? Who else was in it?
There's quotes from Alan Dershowitz in this story, saying he doesn't remember exactly what was in the letter he wrote. You could ask everybody else who has a letter in that book, whether they participated in writing letters for that book.
So, I think we're at the beginning of this story, not close to the end of it.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Jasmine, I think Brian makes a good point.
Just to let everyone at home who's watching understand what's been happening in Washington. This story was basically the worst-kept secret. Everyone had heard that -- it was kind of buzzing. People were talking about that The Wall Street Journal was reportedly going to write on something that there was a letter from Trump to Epstein, that it was a bit salacious, and there were questions of what that was going to look like.
But what's been happening behind-the-scenes at the White House, Jasmine, as you well know, is they have been fighting the publication of this, and we had heard that Trump was threatening to sue. Obviously, he confirmed that tonight, and now says he's going to go forward to that.
But I wonder what the White House's response says to you tonight about how they're viewing this.
JASMINE WRIGHT, POLITICS REPORTER, NOTUS: Yes, well, they're clearly furious here, Kaitlan. I think that cannot be downplayed. Both the President's anger, his close associates' anger.
Obviously, we heard from JD Vance. He was actually the first statement that we heard, from a White House official, calling it BS, and saying that it didn't actually sound like President Trump.
Something that MAGA allies, who, as Michael noted, were first kind of confused, if not angry, at the White House's handling of these Epstein files, now saying that they too don't believe it, because it's not how the President sounds. And so, we're going to hear a lot of anger from them, tomorrow, going forward, going forward, especially if the President does follow through in his threat, and sue.
Well, I've talked to some folks close to the White House, just tonight, outside of the White House, though, and who basically, kind of run the gambit of their responses. Both, they are upset about it, they view the media as inflaming this situation. But they also, on the other side, one person said to me, I don't actually see anything very incriminating, because of the fact that we know that President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, at one point, had a relationship, though the White House, and Trump himself have been trying to downplay it in recent days, if not weeks.
And so, I think that you're going to see a very furious White House. I was in the Oval Office, yesterday, Kaitlan, where we were asking Trump repeatedly about Epstein, and you could tell that he was getting, you know, if not just bored of it, just didn't want to answer these questions. And so, I think it doesn't stop these questions from happening. Obviously, you were -- we were in the briefing, earlier today, when it was dominated--
COLLINS: Yes.
WRIGHT: --by Epstein questions.
COLLINS: I mean, Brian, the White House is saying this isn't true, that Trump didn't write this letter. I mean, The Wall Street Journal could potentially just publish this letter.
Brian Stelter, if you can -- just in terms of what this looks like and what the--
STELTER: Sorry about that, Kaitlan. I wasn't sure that was for me. I apologize.
COLLINS: Yes.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes, yes, go ahead.
STELTER: You're absolutely right. The Journal could publish this letter. Other news outlets could obtain this letter and publish this letter. There are many more layers to this story.
In the meantime, those quotes, you know, like I mentioned, they're going viral on social media, right? Trump apparently saying, May everyday be another wonderful secret, right? Those kinds of words are going to be used by Democrats against Trump, whether he says the letter is his or not.
And let's just take a step back and think about who was Donald Trump back 20, 25 years ago. He was this braggadocios billionaire businessman in New York City, and he sent out a lot of these kinds of letters. I don't know if he sent this to Epstein or not.
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But I used to receive letters from President Trump, back when he was the star of "The Apprentice." He would send me mail about his television ratings, and he would sign it in his Sharpie. A lot of people received mail from Trump over the years, right? So there are a lot of elements of this story that do add up, that do make sense. That's partly why this is being taken seriously by so many people.
And going forward here, The Wall Street Journal, yes, it's going to be under pressure. Trump is going to threaten to sue.
I've reached out, by the way, to The Journal. Let me see if they've replied in the last couple minutes, Kaitlan. Nothing back from Dow Jones yet.
But it's going to be very interesting to see how the Murdochs handle this. Rupert Murdoch and his son, Lachlan, they have close ties to the President. Lachlan was hanging out with the President, over the weekend, at the FIFA game in New Jersey. So, there is a close relationship.
But there is also a desire by the Murdochs to show that they are newsmen, that they are journalists. Even though they have Fox News promoting Trump, day and night, they also are proud to own The Wall Street Journal.
And the fact that they went ahead with this story, even though Trump was personally calling Rupert trying to stop it? That is a very revealing detail to me, Kaitlan. It indicates The Journal has rock- solid sourcing. And so yes, maybe the next step is actually publishing this actual material.
COLLINS: Hold on, Brian.
I was about to go to commercial, but I -- the President has just posted on Truth Social, and says -- and this truly was two minutes ago.
He said, quote, Based on the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein, I have asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to produce any and all pertinent Grand Jury testimony, subject to Court approval. He says, This SCAM, perpetuated by the Democrats, should end, right now.
Michael, what is your reaction to that making -- he's saying just the grand jury testimony, any and all pertinent grand jury testimony. I guess that is obviously subject to the Attorney General's discretion here. But that -- does that show that the White House is bending to this pressure from Republicans, from their MAGA supporters, to release documents related to Jeffrey Epstein?
SCHERER: It depends on whether it's pertinent to the crimes Jeffrey Epstein allegedly committed, or pertinent to Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with Trump.
We know that Trump had a long relationship with Epstein. Trump's on the record talking about it. Epstein talked about it with another journalist. There's photos of them watching women dance, or videotape of them watching women dance, from back in the day. CNN had a casino employee of Trumps on yesterday, talking about Trump coming into the casino, with a 19-year-old girl, and Epstein, in '89 or '90 or somewhere around there. And so, I think that's a separate conversation which this letter may speak to. This letter may not be evidence that Trump ever committed a crime. He had a friend, and they obviously had bawdy conversations, and it's a salacious letter. But it may have nothing to do with the criminal case against Jeffrey Epstein. It may not involve anybody underage. We don't know anything about that.
And I think that's now a separate live question. What was their relationship? What did they do together? How did they become friends all this time? Because we have this letter, and it needs to be explained.
COLLINS: Yes, and--
STELTER: There's a broader problem for the President, if I can add, Kaitlan?
COLLINS: Go ahead, Brian.
STELTER: The problem for the President is that his fans, for years, have been told that there's this secret, locked door, this black box, with all these horrible secrets about pedophiles inside the box.
That's what Trump and -- but really, not just -- not really Trump. Actually, his surrogates, his allies, his MAGA media fans, that's what they've been saying for years. So all of a sudden tonight, Trump is saying, We're going to take a flashlight, and we're going to point it at one corner of the box.
But the problem with a conspiracy theory is there's always more darkness somewhere around, right? There's always another corner where secrets could be concealed. Any attempt now by Trump and Bondi to release some documents will have people asking about other documents and other parts of the black box. This may never fully go away for him, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: On that note, I want to turn now because--
SCHERER: Let me just add that Ghislaine Maxwell's right now in--
COLLINS: Go ahead, Michael.
SCHERER: Ghislaine Maxwell's now in prison, appealing her case. And if this book is as described in Wall Street Journal, she was an eyewitness to all of it. And so, her coming forward at some point is also an open question.
COLLINS: And her attorney put out a statement tonight that was seeming--
WRIGHT: I mean, I just want to point out though--
COLLINS: --trying to -- to appeal to -- was trying to appeal to President Trump, potentially even maybe, I don't know if it was clear what exactly it was seeking, but it was saying that Trump should know better than anyone that -- about being wronged by the justice system and not getting a fair chance.
Thank you all for your reporting on this.
We do have California Democratic congressman, Robert Garcia, with us.
And Congressman, as we are following this breaking news tonight, with the President saying that he has issued this directive to the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to release pertinent grand jury information.
The Attorney General herself just responded, moments ago, on Twitter, and said, President Trump - we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal the grand jury transcripts.
What is your reaction to that?
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REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Look, I really don't know what that actually means. I mean, what we do know is that Donald Trump is going to try to evade, create distractions. We've been expecting him to appoint some kind of special counsel, perhaps. Anything that he can do to slow the process down, and actually not release the Epstein files, actually not un-classify this information? He is going to do.
And so, what's happening right now, this is developing hour to hour, and the bottom line is that Donald Trump is hiding something. He's not being honest with the American public.
He spent his entire campaign, talking about releasing the Epstein files, his entire base, his own son, talking about it, tweeting about it dozens of times online. Elon Musk making claims, who knows the President very well, of course, that he's actually in the files.
And so, I truly believe that Donald Trump, at this point, is going to do everything he can to distract the American public, and actually not focus on what he promised to do, which is actually to release the full files. And that's what this moment, whether it's the Oversight Committee that we're on, or Judiciary, we are going to investigate every single piece of this, because Donald Trump is lying.
The Attorney General is clearly hiding something. We're hearing right now that the FBI is in complete turmoil about what's actually going on. And the Republican members, right now, in Congress, are doing everything they can to avoid questions, about what they know is a very serious topic and, of importance now, to the American public.
COLLINS: But if they release this grand jury information, do you think that could change the reaction that we are seeing from people, who say they want more released?
GARCIA: I don't. I mean, first, does anybody trust any process that Donald Trump is going to set up with the Attorney General? I mean, anything that they're trying to do, right now, is all about distraction. It's all about trying to take eyes off this story.
This story is growing day by day. We're getting informants coming forward. There's people that are having conversations with members of Congress. Elon Musk clearly knows much more than he is letting on. And so, I think there's a lot of questions to be asked. We know that Donald Trump, we know that, in some cases, Fox News, others, have doctored videos. There's a lot now that is piling on this case.
And this, by the way, is here, not because the Democrats campaigned on it, not because we were talking about the Epstein files, or what we thought were conspiracy theories. But because Donald Trump made it central to his win, and his base was expecting him to deliver.
Instead, he's betrayed his base. He's betrayed his campaign promises. And now, I think it's very appropriate that we continue to ask and investigate for a full release of the truth and the full Epstein files.
COLLINS: But if lawmakers are asking for more, is this not the White House releasing more? I mean, we'll have to wait, because obviously we've seen them tease releases before, only for them to not be anything that was new.
But grand jury information, if that is released? And I think you have a good point that we don't know exactly what that's going to look like. But if they release more information, isn't that exactly what members of Congress are asking for tonight?
GARCIA: Look, any information that Donald Trump, or Pam Bondi, or their process at the DOJ, that essentially we know now is not independent of Donald Trump or the Executive, which has been the case in the past? I don't trust any process that Pam Bondi is going to be involved in. A grand jury process that we know nothing--
COLLINS: So, what would you trust?
GARCIA: Look, I would trust a declassification of the full files, of whatever that the FBI has, that Pam Bondi has seen, should be fully released to the public. And if there is going to be some type of special counsel or a grand jury release? That all needs to be done in a way that is transparent.
I don't think anybody trusts the Donald Trump DOJ. Their entire job is to protect Donald Trump. They continue to do it, which is why we have continued to push for the full files, the truth and complete transparency in this process.
COLLINS: Congressman Robert Garcia, we will see what this looks like. Thank you for joining us on this breaking news.
We're going to have much more on this news, as we are talking to people inside the White House, right now, about what exactly this means, and this change in policy after a huge backlash on Capitol Hill. We'll be right back after a quick break.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Back with our breaking news as we are learning this hour, and in response to a new report from The Wall Street Journal, about an alleged letter that they say Donald Trump sent to Jeffrey Epstein, decades ago, President Trump now announced this, this hour.
He says, quote, "Based on the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein, I have asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to produce any and all pertinent Grand Jury testimony, subject to Court approval." He says, "This SCAM, perpetuated by the Democrats, should end, right now."
Of course, it is Trump's own supporters who have been pushing to release more. The Attorney General, Pam Bondi, who has faced backlash from some of the MAGA-faithful, responded and said, President Trump - we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal the grand jury transcripts.
Joining me right now by phone, on this breaking news, CNN's Evan Perez.
And Evan, walk us through what this means, because I think there's a lot of questions about what exactly could potentially be released here, and how quickly we could see new material.
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EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (On Telephone): Well, one of the things that we know, that the Justice Department has been looking at, over the last -- you know, when they were deciding what to -- what to -- whether to release additional material, they did look at some of the material that had been gathered as part of the -- as part of this investigation.
And one of the things they determined is, the grand jury material, of course, remains secret. And that is normal, Kaitlan. It requires a judge's permission to release grand jury material. It is not commonly done. But it is done on occasion.
And in this case, what the government will do, essentially, is go to the judge and ask for, we don't know what particular material, but they're going to ask for some material to be released publicly, and they're going to have to show a good reason for doing that.
Now, the question will be whether a judge will ask for the input of some of the victims, some of the people who testified in secret as part of this investigation, back in 2019, before those charges were brought, and how much time that's going to take.
This is not normally a very quick process. CNN, we have gone to court to have documents that were part of our grand jury testimony, and so on. We've gone to the court to ask for materials to be released in other investigations. That takes, sometimes, months, even perhaps a year, for that to be done.
So, we don't know -- if the President really wants this done, it's not clear that this is the way for this to be quiet -- for this controversy to be quieted very quickly.
COLLINS: Yes, what's the distinction in -- you know, when they're talking about the grand jury testimony, that is not exactly what we have heard Republicans clamoring for. They've just said, you know, including the former Vice President, Mike Pence, that just everything should be released related to Jeffrey Epstein.
PEREZ (On Telephone): Right, exactly. That is -- it's not clear that this is the only material that people want to see, right?
And some of the grand jury material might include, for instance, information about some of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Remember, he was a financier. He managed money for rich individuals. So, there's a lot of things that were gathered, as part of this years-long investigation that are in that testimony before they brought -- they brought these charges against Jeffrey Epstein.
We don't -- we just don't know exactly what's in it, because some of that material ended up supporting the charges, and were used as evidence in the case against Ghislaine Maxwell, for instance. But beyond that, Jeffrey Epstein never went to trial because he killed himself in prison before he was able to face a jury. So, a lot of this material--
COLLINS: Yes.
PEREZ (On Telephone): --that may perhaps have gone made its way into evidence in court never got done.
COLLINS: Yes. Evan Perez, thank you for joining us on this breaking news.
Also here tonight is Republican senator, Bernie Moreno of Ohio.
And Senator, it's great to have you here.
Obviously, when it comes to Republican supporters, MAGA supporters, that you know well, when it comes to this post, by the President tonight, about pertinent grand jury information, do you think that's going to be sufficient for them?
SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): Yes, absolutely. Look, President Trump has been very clear, that Democrats would have weaponized this against him for years, if this was anything to do with President Trump. But here's the reality, here's a sad reality, honestly, is that the Democrats, with the media, have tried to change the topic.
Change the topic for the fact that we have the most secure border in American history. That we just passed the most consequential bill that puts $7,500 in the pockets of working Americans. That we've lowered inflation. Egg prices are down. Gas prices are down. We have stability all over the world. We're starting to cut the deficit. We just passed the first crypto legislation in American history. We're winning on every count. The Democrats don't want to talk about any of this, because they're wrong on every front. And look, that's what the American people care about. They're seeing their pocketbooks go up. They're seeing the fact that their communities are now safe. They're seeing record deportations. This is what people voted for, on November 5th. And this is what we're going to focus on, going forward, helping American people.
This story is a tabloid sensation. Look, you have a very important show. I think a lot of people watch it. You spent half your show already, talking about a fake story that The Wall Street Journal published. This isn't what journalism is intended to be. Let's talk about what the winning that we're doing for the American people. That's what they want to hear.
COLLINS: Well, hang on. You can't criticize what we're covering, when this is a show that primarily covers what the President is doing, and this is what he's posting tonight.
And you're saying that this is being perpetuated by Democrats. But this is Thomas Massie, Thom Tillis, Mike Pence, Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk.
MORENO: You just mentioned -- you just mentioned -- you just mentioned three--
COLLINS: Those are Republicans.
MORENO: The first three, I would not consider to be Republicans. These are guys that hate President Trump, are against his agenda.
COLLINS: OK. Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk--
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MORENO: Look, Charlie has been clear--
COLLINS: --Joe Rogan, all these people--
MORENO: Charlie has been clear--
COLLINS: --who are calling on this are Democrats?
MORENO: I was with Charlie, this weekend. Charlie has been clear, saying, Hey, let's move on and talk about what we're doing. We're winning for the American people.
COLLINS: But then he took that back and said he wasn't moving on.
MORENO: Well, look, I don't know. I'm talking about the people that are here in Washington, D.C., that are fighting every day to make the lives of American citizens better. The most secure border in American history, more money in the hands of American workers, bringing factories back to the U.S., putting peace and stability around the entire globe.
We're winning at such a high level that the only thing the Democrats have to talk about, or cling on to, is these ridiculous tabloid stories. The guy that you had on before that was sweating, which is a clear indication the guy was absolutely lying through his teeth? Look, he can't say anything about what has been accomplished in this Congress.
And it's not even been six months. It's three days short of six months. We're going to sign the first--
COLLINS: Senator--
MORENO: --crypto legislation tomorrow, in American history. This is an incredible amount of winning.
COLLINS: Yes, if--
MORENO: Let's talk about that.
COLLINS: If I'll take you on your point of Republicans have better things to do, and better things to talk about? Why are Republicans in the House, right now, unable to get the DOGE cuts passed because of the fight over the Epstein files?
MORENO: Well, we've got it passed in the Senate. I was up till 3 o'clock in the morning, getting it done.
We're getting our first rescissions package in 32 years, cutting the most wasteful spending possible. And the American people are seeing that we're serious about cutting spending. The House is going to get it across the finish line. I'm confident that they'll get it done.
And this is just the beginning. We're going to have even more cuts. We're going to honor and respect every dollar that the taxpayers give us. We're going to treat their money like it's our own, not waste it, burn it on these ridiculous programs.
Look, we're doing everything here, very simple, Kaitlan, to fight for the American worker every single day. That's what they want to know. And when they see their paychecks are climbing way above inflation, that's what they want to see.
COLLINS: But on the work that Congress is doing, I mean, it has delayed getting that passed in the House. Those are Republicans who are delaying it right now.
MORENO: Yes, look -- look, we--
COLLINS: It's not Democrats.
MORENO: We have -- we have 53 Republicans in the Senate. It's tough to get 53 Republicans to agree on everything. But look, we got it passed, yesterday. We got the one big, beautiful bill passed. Nobody thought it could happen by July 4th. We got it done by July 4th. So, we continue to win.
Look, is the process neat and simple? No. We got a razor-thin majority, which is why your viewers need to be thinking about the 2026 election, and making sure to get more Republicans elected, and get rid of these people that are here just to make names for themselves, people that want to be troublemakers for the sake of being troublemakers, so they can go on social media and send out fundraising alerts. Look, I'm here to get stuff done.
COLLINS: Yes, but if it's--
MORENO: We're getting stuff done.
COLLINS: If it's such a distraction, and it's causing Republican infighting on Capitol Hill, and it's also causing a huge split between the leadership at the Justice Department and the FBI? Would it be easier, in your view, if the White House, if the administration, just released everything, as some Republicans have called on them to do, so then you can just move on from it?
MORENO: Well, you read the post. President Trump just said to do that.
I don't -- and I reject the premise that it's causing a rift in the administration. You have the most united Cabinet, the most competent Cabinet in American history. You know what we're not talking about? The autopen scandal.
COLLINS: I don't think the Deputy FBI Director--
MORENO: The fact that President -- but look at -- but --
COLLINS: --and the Attorney General are speaking.
MORENO: But my point, Kaitlan, is did you guys spend 30 minutes talking about the autopen scandal? Did you spend 30 minutes talking about the fact that Democrats hid the knowledge that President Biden was compromised, this guy was -- did not have his mental faculties, and was running the country, that it was completely covered up?
COLLINS: Jake Tapper wrote an entire book on it, and we covered it at length.
MORENO: Yes, but not for -- not for--
COLLINS: I think you can do both things.
MORENO: --not like this.
COLLINS: You could walk and chew gum at the same time, Senator, with all due respect.
MORENO: No, I think there's a -- I think there's a different standard for Republicans.
COLLINS: And when it comes to what we covered--
MORENO: There's a different standard for Republicans. Look, here's a good news for America -- for the American--
COLLINS: But these are -- I understand your argument, that you're trying to blame it on the media, on Democrats. But the whole point of this scandal, which when the President said,
last week, I can't believe people are still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? It's his supporters who are talking. Are you saying that everyone who is calling on this to be released is a member of the media or a Democrat?
MORENO: No, what I'm saying is the vast majority of Republicans are united around one simple concept. We came here to fight for the American worker, to improve their lives, to give them safety and prosperity, and that's what we're doing every day. And we're delivering.
We've got this bill done that, you know it's so good because the Democrats don't talk about it anymore. They don't talk about the generational investment in modernizing our air traffic control system, generational investment in our military, giving pay raises to our law enforcement officers, zero entries into our country for illegal criminals, million people already deported. This is what people voted for.
Look, the Democrats want to talk about nonsense? They're going to continue to lose elections. I'm -- me? I'm here focused on helping the American worker.
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: Yes, OK, I'm just saying it's 10 Republicans co-sponsoring the legislation to release everything. And so, when it comes to that, obviously, those--
MORENO: That's less--
COLLINS: --they have an R next to their name.
MORENO: That's less than 5 percent of the Republican Party. 95 percent--
COLLINS: But when you have a majority as slim as you do, those 10 Republicans have power.
MORENO: Yes, no, you're--
COLLINS: Do they not?
MORENO: Totally. Totally agree with you. And that's why, in 2026, we have to massively expand our majority, get to 55, 56 senators, so that we don't have to be held hostage by attention-seeking people that want to make a name for themselves, and maybe join you on the set some day, as a former Republican, like Chris Christie does. And I'm sure, he makes millions of dollars going on ABC News, pretending one day he used to be a Republican.
Look, that's what these guys do. That's why we need more businesspeople that come here to serve, not politicians that then use this job to try to make money as a result of having had this position. Look again, Kaitlan, for me, it's very simple. I come here every day, how do we make the lives of American people better? And we're delivering results.
COLLINS: Do you believe what's happening, right now, is a problem of the administration's own making, given Kash Patel, Dan Bongino, Pam Bondi, Vice President Vance, they all wanted these documents to be released before Trump won the election?
MORENO: Look, these are -- the people you just mentioned are all friends of mine. These are people that work every single day to make the lives of American -- the American people better.
President Trump is completely focused on that. He's brought peace and stability in the Middle East, peace between India and Pakistan, ended a war between -- in Africa, between Congo and Rwanda, and is bringing peace to Russia and Ukraine, a war he did not create.
Now, instead of giving money and giving weapons, that who knows how that money was spent to Ukraine, he's selling weapons to Europe, who's paying for it, who's going to monitor that. These are the things that the American people want to see.
Look, we don't talk about the border anymore. We have the safest, most secure border in American history, and it's not even been six months.
Those are the stories that the American people care about, that the Democrats can't talk about, because what do they want? They wanted radical EV subsidies. They wanted the Green New Scam. They created instability in every corner of the globe. They--
COLLINS: Yes, but, Senator, you--
MORENO: --had a wide open border. This is -- this is the contrast, and we've been able to accomplish that.
COLLINS: All of these things -- all of these things that Republicans ran on, that Trump ran on, you know, I remember seeing you on the floor at the Republican Convention, those are all things that people voted for.
But also, this was a big part of what the right was pushing, when it came to the Epstein files. I mean, it's been a fascination and obsession of theirs.
So I wonder, since you were just on the campaign trail, what would you say to a MAGA voter who came up you tomorrow -- to you tomorrow, and said, I felt misled by what the people who are now in charge of the federal government told me, that the federal government was hiding these documents from me, and now they're in charge, and they won't release all of them.
MORENO: Well, first of all, I'd say, Look at what President Trump just said tonight.
And by the way, that's not hypothetical. I do that. People in the campaign trail, I gave them my personal number. They call me, they text me, they email me, and I tell them the exact same thing, I'll tell you right now.
I know Pam Bondi. I trust Pam Bondi. She's a patriot. I know Kash Patel. I trust Kash Patel. He's a patriot. I know Dan Bongino. He's a patriot. And most importantly, I know that President Trump, in his heart, every day, wakes up and fights for the American people. I trust him explicitly. And he is fighting every day to make this country safer and more prosperous, and that's what you should focus on.
Let's not get sucked into the shiny objects for the Democrats and the media, which are intended to distract from the incredible wins, historic wins in the first six months of any presidency, in my lifetime.
COLLINS: Grand jury material is obviously going to be subject to a judge's approval. They're going to have to go to the victims who could potentially be named in these documents.
On the other hand, the President can make anything public that he wants. He could direct the Attorney General to do so. Why not just do that?
MORENO: Well, again, I trust them. They're going to do what they're going to do. They see the documents.
Part of it, Kaitlan, I'm sure, is that there may be names on there of people who, for example, could have taken a pic -- I take pictures with hundreds of people. Maybe there's a picture of somebody that you took a picture of, and now all of a sudden they're going to infer something from that.
But again, all that is a distraction from what we've been able to accomplish in the first six months of this administration.
But I think there is a bigger point here, and I want to address that, which is that people that have power are not held accountable, the way they should be in this country. I introduced a bill today that says if you hire criminal aliens, illegals into this country, we're going to hold you personally responsible.
And what I hear from voters, when I was on the campaign trail, is they were sick and tired of a rule for wealthy elites and a rule for -- rules for everybody else. So we do have to have a justice system that holds everybody accountable.
COLLINS: But Senator, isn't that the argument that MAGA voters are making right now, that the people in power aren't being held to account, and they promised them one thing on the campaign trail, and then they didn't deliver it when they got the power that the voters gave them?
[21:40:00]
MORENO: They are. They're absolutely doing this. And clearly, what you're seeing is, that information is going to be released in the way that it has to be released.
But look, again, Kaitlan, I appreciate what you do. I really do. I think it's important that we make certain that the American people know what's going on in this country.
But if you ask somebody in Ohio who, a year ago, was having a hard time buying groceries, or paying rent, or affording a car, what do they care about today? The fact that they don't have criminal aliens that they have to worry about in their neighborhoods. That they don't have the scourge of drugs coming across our border.
That their wages are rising. That they're about to see new investments that are going to give them even better jobs. That we have a health care system that we made stronger by strengthening Medicaid. We kicked illegals off of our social welfare programs. That their sons and daughters--
COLLINS: Yes.
MORENO: --aren't going to be asked to fight endless wars. These are the things that they're hyper-focused on.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Moreno, always appreciate your time, and thanks for sticking with us on the breaking news tonight.
MORENO: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to get another update from the White House. This comes to the President's health, and an important thing we heard at the White House briefing today. We're going to be joined by a medical source, to make sense of the President's latest diagnosis tonight.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The White House revealing, a few hours ago, that President Trump has been diagnosed with what is known as chronic venous insufficiency. An announcement that came after the 79-year-old President was evaluated by his medical team, after noticing mild swelling in his lower legs. A letter from his physician concluded that he, quote, "Remains in excellent health."
My medical source tonight is Dr. Megan Ranney, emergency physician and Dean at the Yale School of Public Health.
And it's so great to have you here, Doctor. Because one, I think a lot of people want to know what is chronic venous insufficiency. And two, what does this diagnosis mean for the President?
DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, DEAN, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Thanks, Kaitlan. It's a joy to join you.
So, chronic venous insufficiency is something that's actually pretty common. Somewhere between 10 and 30 percent of elderly adults have it. Basically what it means is that your veins have valves that keep the blood from backflowing. In chronic venous insufficiency, those valves stop working, and so the blood pools down in your lower legs, causing swelling. There are various levels of it. In the most mild level, it can cause varicose veins or a little bit of swelling. As it gets worse, it can cause skin changes, infections and even chronic venous ulcers.
We see it a lot in the emergency department and in primary care practices. It's not, in and of itself, concerning, although you, of course, want to make sure that those symptoms of swelling aren't caused by more dangerous conditions. And you want to treat it, so that you don't end up with those negative effects, like infection or ulcers, which can make you not able to walk, and then cause all kinds of other downstream health problems.
COLLINS: Well, and when you look at the President's last annual physical, that was done at Walter Reed, three months ago, and on April 11th of this year, we heard from the President's physician after that. And one part that he praised actually was Trump's cardiac health. He wrote that his blood flow to his extremities is unimpaired.
Does that mean that something has changed in those three months?
RANNEY: It most likely means that something has changed. Now, when he says the blood flow to his legs is unimpaired, I interpret that to mean both arterial and venous circulation. Maybe he was just referring to arterial circulation, or the functioning of the heart, the pumping that creates a pulse and gets blood flowing to your legs. Maybe he wasn't referring to venous outflow, or bringing that blood back to your heart.
Is it also possible that we weren't fully transparent at that point? Maybe. I think this is one of the things about social media. We see pictures just like we did with that Coldplay concert, yesterday. Things don't go unnoticed.
I'm glad that the President's health was taken seriously, and that they investigated for more serious causes, which sound like they were ruled out.
COLLINS: Yes, not as salacious as the Coldplay concert revelation.
Dr. Megan Ranney, great to have you. Thanks for being here tonight.
Up next for us. There are some major changes coming to late night TV, as CBS has just announced it is canceling "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert." Details on this shocking exit, and what it means, with Brian Stelter, right after this.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In a move that has shocked and confounded the entertainment world, tonight, CBS said it is canceling "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert," next May.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLBERT: Before we start the show, I want to let you know something that I found out just last night. Next year will be our last season. The network will be ending "The Late Show" in May. And--
(STUDIO AUDIENCE SHOUTING NOES AND BOOS)
COLBERT: Yes, I share your feelings. It's not just the end of our show, but it's the end of "The Late Show" on CBS. I'm not being replaced. This is all just going away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: This is on the heels of CBS' parent company, Paramount, settling a $16 million lawsuit with President Trump, while seeking his administration's approval of a merger with Skydance Media.
Colbert previously condemned that settlement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLBERT: Now, I believe this kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official has a technical name in legal circles: It's big fat bribe.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: Because this all comes as Paramount's owners are trying to get the Trump administration to approve the sale of our network to a new owner, Skydance.
(LAUGHTER)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source, back with us, is CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
Brian, I just wonder what you make of this news tonight. Obviously, it was the highest rated program in--
STELTER: My phone -- yes.
COLLINS: --late night TV, if I believe.
STELTER: Yes, and normally, the highest rated show does not get canceled, but that is why it's such a surprise tonight.
My phone has been ringing off the hook with sources reacting to CBS' statement. Here's the statement from the network, saying, quote, "This is purely a financial decision against a challenging backdrop in late night. It is not related in any way to the show's performance, content or other matters happening at Paramount."
[21:55:00]
Normally, someone like Colbert would make some very funny jokes about that kind of corporate buck covering. Now, it is true that CBS is under financial pressure. I'm told the show is no longer profitable. Companies always try to cut costs when in the midst of a merger. And some sources are telling me this cancelation is a casualty of the merger.
But it's convenient to say the least, given that Trump does not like Colbert one bit. And already, Hollywood executives are buzzing about the idea that maybe Colbert will walk across the streaming street. Kaitlan, maybe he'll end up somewhere else, like, I don't know, Netflix.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point. And we will see what is next for our buddy, Stephen Colbert.
Brian Stelter, thank you for that.
We'll be right back with more breaking news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A new episode of the CNN Original Series "Billionaire Boys Club" premieres this Sunday. Here's a preview.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Joe reveals he and Jim had killed Ron Levin, the BBC boys were stunned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a group of young 20 somethings who had very little very experience with life. I can only imagine, their heads were spinning out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Don't miss the new episode, this Sunday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
That's it for us tonight. Thanks so much for joining us this very busy SOURCE hour.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
