Return to Transcripts main page

The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Trump: Epstein Took Young Women Who Worked At Mar-A-Lago Spa; Trump: New York City Shooting Is A "Terrible Thing"; Tsunami Alerts Issued For Hawaii, West Coast After Quake Off Russia. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 29, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Earlier, they put out a sketch of the suspect, describing him as a white male with a medium build. Police are asking anyone who was inside the park, at the time, to check their photos and videos for possible images of that suspect.

That is all for us tonight. I'll see you back, tomorrow morning, at 7 o'clock, alongside Kate Bolduan, for "CNN NEWS CENTRAL."

In the meantime, the news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, President Trump's latest reaction when asked about his falling out with Jeffrey Epstein. And also, I have new reporting on Ghislaine Maxwell's demands before she testifies before Congress.

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

After several days in Scotland, President Trump returned to Washington, tonight, where questions have continued to follow him, over his administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, questions likely only amplified after the President acknowledged that Epstein recruited one of his victims, from the President's Mar-a-Lago Club, many years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, you said yesterday your falling out with Jeffrey Epstein was over him taking some of the workers from your business. But your administration in the past said that you threw him out because he was a creep. So can you explain that discrepancy?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, maybe they're the same thing. You know, sort of a little bit of the same thing. But no, he took people that worked for me, and I told him don't do it anymore, and he did it. And I said, 'stay the hell out of here.'

REPORTER: Epstein has a certain reputation, obviously. Just curious, were some of the workers that were taken from you, were some of them young women?

TRUMP: Were some of them --

REPORTER: Were some of them young women? TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say, but everyone knows the people that were taken. And it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad. But that story has been pretty well out there. And the answer is yes, they were.

REPORTER: Yes, they were young women.

TRUMP: Yes.

REPORTER: What did they do? What kind of jobs (ph)?

TRUMP: In the spa.

REPORTER: In the spa?

TRUMP: Yes, people that work in the spa. I have a great spa, one of the best spas in the world at Mar-a-Lago. And people were taken out of the spa, hired by him. In other words, gone.

And other people would come and complain, 'this guy is taking people from the spa.' I didn't know that. And then when I heard about it, I told him, I said, 'listen, we don't want you taking our people, whether it was spa or not spa, I don't want him taking people.' And he was fine, and then not too long after that, he did it again. And I said, 'out of here.'

REPORTER: Mr. President, did -- did one of those stolen, you know, persons, did that include Virginia Giuffre?

TRUMP: I don't know. I think she worked at the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people, yes. He -- he stole her. And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know. None whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Virginia Giuffre, who the President was asked about there, died by suicide, earlier this year. She was a teenage employee, when she was recruited by Epstein, and accused him of trafficking her and forcing her to have sex with his friends. That recruitment was put in place, she said, and in motion by his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIRGINIA GIUFFRE, AMERICAN-AUSTRALIAN ADVOCATE OF JUSTICE FOR SURVIVORS OF SEX TRAFFICKING: We need to get to the bottom of everybody who was involved with that, starting with Ghislaine Maxwell, and going along the lines there.

I was recruited at a very young age from Mar-a-Lago, and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand, and I've been fighting that very world to this day, and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced until these people are brought to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The President's answers today, about his fallout with Jeffrey Epstein, have only raised new questions, about what the President knew exactly about the late sex trafficker's misconduct.

It's important to note, the President himself has -- himself has not been accused of any wrongdoing, in connection with Jeffrey Epstein. But his answers on their relationship, and their fallout, have evolved, after yesterday, he told reporters, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But for years, I wouldn't talk to Jeffrey Epstein, I wouldn't talk. Because he did something that was inappropriate. He hired help, and I said, Don't ever do that again. He stole people that worked for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Tonight, as he returned to the White House, I asked the President whether Epstein's moves, then raised questions about his conduct.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Mr. President, you said earlier that Jeffrey Epstein was stealing young women. You said Jeffrey Epstein was stealing young women from your spa. Did that raise alarm bells for you?

TRUMP: Be quiet.

COLLINS: Did that raise alarm bells for you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: As you can see, the President did not answer that question.

[21:05:00]

And when it comes to unanswered questions, here in Washington, Congress may have a lot more tonight. That's because, as we were -- first reported here on CNN today, Ghislaine Maxwell responded to her congressional subpoena for her testimony with a list of demands.

Those demands include being granted formal immunity before she testifies. For the interview to take place outside the correctional facility where she's serving her 20-year sentence. She also wants all of the committee's questions in advance. And any testimony that she would give would have to come after the Supreme Court weighs in on her bid to overturn her conviction, meaning that it could take months before any testimony would happen.

But tonight, it remains very unclear, and seemingly unlikely, if this goes anywhere, because we've already heard from the House Oversight chair, James Comer, who issued that subpoena, rejecting the notion that Ghislaine Maxwell would be granted congressional immunity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): I don't think there are many Republicans that want to give immunity to someone that may have been sex trafficking children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: My political sources are here with me tonight, along with CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.

And Governor Chris Sununu, it's great to have you here today.

Because I think, as we've been looking at this whole situation, and as the White House has said, We want to stop talking about this, we want to move on. Very clearly, this has continued to follow them. And I'm not sure the questions and the answers about his fallout with Jeffrey Epstein, and recruiting one of his known victims, is going to help with that.

CHRIS SUNUNU, (R) FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: No, I mean, this story is not going away.

And I think, I mean, as awful of a human being as Maxwell is, I think her legal team is playing a very strong hand here. They're basically saying, We'll come before Congress, we'll come before America, we'll answer all of these questions. And that's really hard for the administration to say, Yes, we're not going to do that. So, I'm not saying she gets granted immunity. But they know there's a deal to be had, somehow, some way.

Now that the courts have said, We're not going to unseal these files? Pam Bondi and the Justice Department have said, We can't release any more information because it could compromise other legal issues? The only way everyone's going to be satisfied is coming from the Rosetta Stone, as it was put, herself.

And to up that ante and to say, Not only will we talk, but we'll talk in front of all of America. All you have to do is give us some sort of immunity? My sense -- my sense is there'll be some sort of reduced sentence or a deal to be had. But this is not going away until more information comes in.

COLLINS: You think the President will step in and either grant her clemency or reduce her sentence?

SUNUNU: I don't know if it's the President or the Department of Justice. But I think there's an opportunity there to -- to, again, to negotiate. And they're starting high, right? They're starting very high, with a high list of demands, knowing that they could come in here, give her some sort of flexibility or whatever -- whatever she wants -- she might want, but.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: I think that is a complete -- I don't disagree with you that--

SUNUNU: Right.

FINNEY: --that may be their strategy. But I think that is a complete misreading of how much this situation has moved from being a bad story, or headline, to a real crisis, to now it is moving into culture, because now we're back to having conversations about what it means for young girls to be trafficked.

And let's remember that Ghislaine Maxwell herself actually sexually abused some of these young women--

SUNUNU: Yes.

FINNEY: --that allegedly that was part of the case.

Here's what I think part of the problem is, though. I agree, it's probably a negotiating tactic and, you know, and that's in their minds. At the same time, those clips you just played? Having done crisis communications for candidates and companies and organizations, you can't kill a story when your main messenger can't deliver the message.

Trump himself keeps adding more to the story, and it looked like perhaps there was something he was supposed to say, and he kind of didn't quite say it right. I mean, he just, sort of -- you know, the timeline doesn't match up to what he's trying to say now.

And so, the more -- every single day, it seems like we're -- there's just more questions and sort of more branches on the tree, where not even his core base and the right-wing podcasters who follow him, they're not buying it.

COLLINS: Well, the timeline you're talking about here. So basically, what Virginia Giuffre testified is that Ghislaine Maxwell approached her, in the year, 2000, when she was working at Mar-a-Lago, she was a teenage employee at the spa there. She was recruited, as she just mentioned there, when we saw her before she -- before she passed away.

The President told New York Magazine, two years later, in 2002, that's when he made that famous quote, that he was a terrific guy who liked women, beautiful women, as much as Trump does, but on the younger side.

March 2005 is when police opened a criminal investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, in Palm Beach, after a 14-year-old girl's parents said that he paid her for a massage.

So, I think that is the question here is, is what exactly happened? Because we have gotten kind of different stories on, it being a fallout over real estate, over hiring them away, and then questions about, did you know?

SUNUNU: But--

FINNEY: But also, earlier this evening, one of the guests on CNN said that he was actually a member of Mar-a-Lago until 2007. So again, going back to that timeline, so, you told them to get lost, but you were still allowing him to be a member of Mar-a-Lago till 2007?

SUNUNU: But if I may, I think--

COLLINS: Which I'm not sure about--

SUNUNU: Yes.

COLLINS: --by the way.

[21:10:00]

SUNUNU: So, I'm not saying that those -- those concepts and ideas are insignificant. But the stories about who else was involved on the island, who else was involved with this trafficking, and who else is being protected by the elite establishment of the Democrat Party and the previous administration, the elite establishment in the current administration, and what are the bombshells are going to fly?

And I go back to something Alan Dershowitz said, right? Because he was Epstein's lawyer at the time. And he said, Look, it all goes back to Maxwell. She's the one that's now offering America all of these answers. It's not going to come -- and we're not going to get any more answers about who else was involved, from the President or from Department of Justice. She's the only opportunity here.

So again, you can talk about 2004 -- 2000 -- I don't think Trump's worried about that he did any wrongdoing, or -- he knows he's not involved in this at all.

COLLINS: Well--

SUNUNU: So you can nitpick about--

FINNEY: Well but then--

SUNUNU: --this person was there at Mar-a-Lago this year or that year. At the end of the day, what America is concerned about is who's being protected, and--

COLLINS: And in terms--

SUNUNU: --are we going to crack that ceiling?

COLLINS: In terms of the legal response here. Obviously, we've been waiting to see what her legal team is going to say.

Elie Honig is also here with us.

Elie, when you look at this list of demands, from an attorney's perspective, do you think that that's realistic? I mean, they're obviously representing her. The two things she wants is either a reduction in sentence or a pardon.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Right. Ghislaine Maxwell's motivations here are obvious. She wants to get out of prison sooner. And by the way, if she doesn't, she will be in prison until she's 76-years-old.

Now, Maxwell's demands, some of them are outlandish. Demanding to see the questions in advance, for example. That's ridiculous. But the most important, the most relevant demand she makes here is invoking her Fifth Amendment right, which is completely reasonable, completely what anyone in her position would do.

And the important point here is, if Congress wants to get her testimony, if they really believe she's a truth-teller and a Rosetta Stone, which I seriously doubt? They have the power to get it by giving her immunity.

And I have to make this point about immunity. Immunity has nothing to do, no impact at all on her sex trafficking conviction, on her 20-year sentence. All it would do is say that, whatever she testifies to Congress cannot be used against her in the future.

And so, when we see Representative Comer there, saying, Well, we're not going to immunize someone who's a convicted sex trafficker? Why did you subpoena her in the first place? That's how you get the testimony.

So, Kaitlan, the power here really resides with Congress, and it seems like they're not actually dead-set on getting her testimony. They're more interested in a show here.

COLLINS: Yes, and obviously they're worried about the political backlash that they would face if they did.

But Elie, I want you -- because in the letter, when you read what her attorneys sent to Chair Comer today, at the end, it says, None of these conditions matter, if she is granted clemency, then she will also be able to speak freely and make those complaints -- or make those comments and answer their questions.

But I do want people to listen, just for people who may not remember or recall the details of her trial, what the victims and the survivors from Jeffrey Epstein had said about Ghislaine Maxwell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA FARMER, EPSTEIN AND MAXWELL ACCUSER: There's hundreds of us that were preyed upon by Ghislaine Maxwell.

ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN AND MAXWELL ACCUSER: She was the one who asked me to undress. She was the one who exposed my chest. She's the one who touched me.

The Department of Justice is clear on that, that she herself is a sexual predator who has participated in this abuse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUNUNU: Can I--

FINNEY: But why would she tell the truth, at this point? I mean, she is -- I mean, she can say that everything she's going to testify to is truthful, and who's going to verify it? Only the women who themselves were part of this, would be able to come forward and testify. Some of these young women, they were girls at the time, may not want to have to be re-traumatized. They're probably already being re-traumatized by all of this.

So sure, she can make a deal. But I think calling her the Rosetta Stone is a little bit ridiculous, given that there's no reason for her to tell us the truth.

SUNUNU: But she was there for -- for almost every single instance.

FINNEY: Yes, but why would she ever tell the truth?

SUNUNU: She coordinated every single elitist that went down on that plane that was at the island. She knows all the names. She's the only one alive--

COLLINS: She was Jeffrey Epstein's kind of--

SUNUNU: --that knows all of their names.

COLLINS: --passage to elite society.

SUNUNU: That's right.

FINNEY: Yes.

COLLINS: He didn't know anything. And she was the one who had--

FINNEY: Right.

COLLINS: --all of the credentials with the New York elite and people that he was abusing.

SUNUNU: Right.

FINNEY: Of course. But a lot of that information is also in the files that where you could go through, you could redact the names, and the President of the -- you're trying to make -- the President of the United States who says, he can end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours, can't release some files and make sure that they're redacted?

SUNUNU: Yes, but if I may? The files don't say, This person did this with Ghislaine Maxwell and it--

FINNEY: They might.

SUNUNU: Well, who else was there? Only the victims -- only the victims' testimony would be able to do that. And there's probably some of that, sure. I think the files will more say, By the way, here's the flight log over 20 years. Here's who's been on his plane before. It doesn't say what they did and all that.

FINNEY: I'm just saying, I don't think we should let this story--

SUNUNU: So that's the fear. FINNEY: --be reduced to being just about her and what she's going to say. Because there are victims who deserve justice, and there is, you know, there are -- and again, for the President, it's, Are you going to keep your word? Are you standing by the powerful? Are you standing by the vulnerable?

[21:15:00]

SUNUNU: What it -- is there an argument to be made that whatever information that could be garnered directly from her could be used to get that justice for that victims? That could be additional information, additional testimony that could be entered in--

COLLINS: It's--

SUNUNU: --that is right now sealed by the -- by the courts.

FINNEY: So far, I don't hear the President saying he's interested in doing that.

COLLINS: Well, and a question, of course, if they could hear from the survivors and victims, themselves.

SUNUNU: Yes.

COLLINS: Great to have everyone here on this topic tonight, as we've continued to monitor these developments.

Up next. We're going to check back in, in New York. Investigators there are still trying to piece together a motive behind what is now New York's deadliest mass shooting in 25 years.

My excellent law enforcement sources are here with their latest reporting. And also, what we know about the victims tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:20:00]

COLLINS: The NYPD has just released new images of the assault-style rifle that they say that the 27-year-old Shane Tamura used to kill four people in Midtown Manhattan, yesterday, at a skyscraper, as police say that he assembled the rifle using a restricted weapon part that someone else had purchased.

Sources tell CNN that investigators believe that person is to be a former co-worker of Tamura's at one of his security jobs, with law enforcement sources saying it's the same person Tamura apologized to, in a note that was found in his back pocket. Investigators have interviewed that individual. We don't yet know the extent of that.

But my colleague, John Miller, whom we'll hear from in just a moment, is reporting via a law enforcement official, who's been briefed on this situation, that when the gunman, Shane Tamura, started shooting in the lobby, employees did not wait for their identification to open the glass barriers to leave the elevator area, and instead shattered the glass to escape. Tamura was ultimately able to go through that shattered glass to gain access to the elevators, according to what this official told John Miller.

As President Trump returned back to the White House tonight, I asked him to weigh in on the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Any comment on the New York shooting?

TRUMP: Which one?

COLLINS: The shooting in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In New York.

TRUMP: It's a terrible thing, obviously. I put out a statement. It's so bad. It's so sad to see. A lunatic and we just have to stop it. People come in -- never want to see anything like that happen. And we've expressed our opinion very, very strongly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Tonight, a sea of officers lining the streets outside the medical examiner's office today, honored 36-year-old officer, Didarul Islam, guarding his body as he was brought to a mosque in the Bronx. He was off-duty, but working security in that building when he was cut down by gunfire inside the lobby.

And he leaves behind two young sons and his wife, who is pregnant with their third child. New York Governor, Kathy Hochul, says that his widow is asking for prayers tonight.

My sources tonight are:

CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller.

And also, former FBI senior official, Katherine Schweit.

And it's great to have both of your expertise here.

John, just when it comes to your sources, and what you've been hearing about how this investigation has developed. Now that we have learned so much more as they've been able to get into the building, and also to start to look into his background. What are the big things that we're learning tonight that we didn't know 24 hours ago?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: We're starting to flesh out the picture of the suspect. And, I mean, we're seeing surprises that we -- you know, anomalies we weren't expecting.

His father was an LAPD cop for 18 years, before moving to Las Vegas.

His colleague from work, one of his security colleagues, actually, according to ATF records, purchased the lower receiver, the central operating piece that you would build the rest of that gun that you had on the screen before, that you see him carrying here around. They want to know, investigators that is, how that was purchased by one person and then how it came into the possession of this shooter.

That individual's name is Rick (ph). We have reached out to Rick (ph), left a message, a text message as well, asking to talk about this. Have not had him respond yet.

But in the suicide note, after listing his issues about CTE, his blaming of the NFL, his writings about a documentary that he saw about it, and the different doctors who spoke in it, he says at the end of the note, he wants -- he wants people to tell Rick (ph), I am sorry for everything. Presumably, that is the same Rick (ph) who was his friend and who supplied, potentially the key piece of this firearm.

And when you go back to that gun, he had built out from that lower receiver, a long barrel, a tactical stock, a 30-round magazine, a scope on top, a flashlight, a tactical flashlight at the end.

In other words, he had tricked out the one piece, that is, where you see the handle and the trigger, basically the operating piece that makes the gun fire, and he had built out a tactical weapon, the kind of which you would see with U.S. Special Forces overseas. This was designed for what he wanted to use it for, which is close, personal contact combat. So that's some of what we've seen today.

COLLINS: Yes, and also tells you a lot about what his knowledge was, when it comes to weapons and going into this.

And Katherine, when you look at this. John just mentioned there, the note that the -- that he left, and asking them to examine his brain for CTE. He died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest, I should note, which I think is an important part of this.

[21:25:00]

We don't know if they're going to look into this, what this -- with the medical examiner, when it comes to whether he had CTE. It could be months before we even have an answer to that question.

But between that, and what we learned today about him being on a psychiatric hold, twice in 2022 and 2024, what questions does that raise for you tonight?

KATHERINE SCHWEIT, FORMER FBI SENIOR OFFICIAL, CONSULTANT & SPEAKER ON WORKPLACE VIOLENCE, ACTIVE SHOOTER EXPERT: Yes, as a law enforcement officer, that means we know for sure that he was doing everything he could to avoid detection, prior to an incident.

But these kind of shootings are planned events. And so, this individual wanted to make sure that he made a big splash at the end, but that nobody saw him ahead of time. That's why he built his own gun.

Even with those mental health holds that may -- the details, I know we'll get more on the details on those mental health holds. But you can't get a weapon. You can't go in and purchase a weapon if your mental health hold is put into -- put into the system for background checks. So there's ways to avoid it, and he obviously did.

COLLINS: Yes.

John, what -- I mean, what questions do investigators have, in terms of, of what that looks like, and what his background was, given he had this PI license, a private investigator's license, that we talked about last night, and there are other questions here.

MILLER: So why did he have a private investigator's license? Why did he have a concealed carry license in Clark County, back there in Las Vegas? We dug into those questions today. And what we learned is to be an armed security agent in Las Vegas, you have to get that, that Nevada private investigator's license to qualify. And of course, the concealed carry license is self-explanatory.

But you see -- and what Katie said here is critical. And anybody who wants to know anything about these people, how they develop the reasons behind it, read any of Katie Schweit's books on the subject. But what you see here is somebody who was disconnected from family, not succeeding in his dream of playing football, a little bit lost.

One of the notes he left behind at his apartment, reflected on his parents, when he said, When I look into yours and mom's -- when I look into yours and dad's eyes -- speaking of his mother -- all I see is disappointment.

As Katie said, people don't snap to do these things. They boil, and they boil, and then they boil over.

COLLINS: Yes.

John Miller. Katherine Schweit. Great to have both of your expertise on this.

And I should note, as we are learning more about the shooter's profile, we've also learned a lot more about the other three victims from this shooting.

They include, Cornell graduate and Manhattan native, Julia Hyman, who was an associate at the real estate firm that owns the building.

Wesley LePatner was a deeply-respected Blackstone executive who leaves behind her husband and children.

And beloved security guard, Aland Etienne, whose brother tells CNN he was a father, a son, and a light in his family's lives.

May all of their memories be a blessing tonight.

John Miller. Katherine Schweit. Thank you both.

We'll continue to follow the updates as we get them out of New York.

Also, up next here on THE SOURCE. We're going to speak with Senator Bernie Sanders, as he is demanding action, here in Washington, to stop what he says are the atrocities and starvation happening in Gaza. As new video tonight shows Palestinians swarming aid trucks. An agency, one of them is calling it the worst-case scenario.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're following breaking news, here at CNN, this hour, as tsunami alerts are now in effect for the entire West Coast, along with Alaska and Hawaii, after a massive 8.7 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Russia. It is the largest earthquake on the planet since 2011 when a 9.0 magnitude earthquake triggered that catastrophic tsunami in Japan.

We're going to keep an eye on this this hour. We'll update you as we learn more about those watches as they are in effect tonight.

Also tonight, we're following an issue that is being closely tracked, here in Washington, what is being labeled, the worst-case scenario of famine unfolding in Gaza.

That's the dire warning that we are getting from a food security agency that is backed by the United Nations. And that group says that more than 20,000 kids were admitted for treatment for acute malnutrition, between April and mid-July. More than 3,000 of them were severely malnourished.

And images like these show the staggering human toll that we are watching play out. One child seen shoveling as much flour as he could, off of an aid truck, into his own T-shirt as he turned it into a makeshift bowl to carry that flour.

The President today acknowledged what he and the world have been watching.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think everybody unless they're, pretty cold hearted or worse than that, nuts.

There's nothing you can say other than it's terrible when you see the kids -- and those are kids, you know, whether they talk starvation or not, those are kids that are starving. That's -- I mean, they are starving. And you see the mothers, they love them so much, and there's just nothing they seem to be able to do. They got to get them food, and we're going to get them food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The situation, of course, that the President is talking about, did not happen overnight. Israel cut off all aid to Gaza, back in March, saying, without evidence, that Hamas was stealing all of it, according to a U.S. government review.

[21:35:00]

But when that blockade was partially lifted in May, Israel started relying on a U.S.-backed aid group, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Since then, the United Nations says more than a 1,000 people have been killed, by Israeli forces, while trying to get food.

In the face of growing pressure, Israel has started allowing more aid to trickle in, over the weekend, but aid groups have said it is not nearly enough.

My source tonight is Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

And Senator, when you hear the Israeli Prime Minister saying, there's no starvation happening in Gaza, what -- do you believe he's lying?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Of course he's lying. He is disgusting liar.

Israel had a right to defend itself from the terrible Hamas attack. But I think everybody understands that in the last two and a half years, they have been waging a brutal, horrific, almost unprecedented type of war, not just against Hamas, but against the Palestinian people.

So, you got an area, territory there, of 2.2 million people. They have already killed 60,000. They have injured a 140,000, most of whom are women, children and the elderly. They have virtually completely destroyed the entire infrastructure of Gaza, virtually all of the schools, the health care system, over 70 percent of the housing, the water system.

And now, as you mentioned, over the last period of time, they have prevented humanitarian aid coming in, and there is now mass malnutrition, and children are starving to death.

And tomorrow, I will be offering a Joint Resolution of Disapproval, to basically say, We cannot continue to provide military aid to the extremist, racist Netanyahu government that is starving the children of Gaza.

COLLINS: And when you try to force the Senate to -- you're trying to force them to block the sale of weapons to Israel--

SANDERS: Yes.

COLLINS: --as a result of what you're seeing play out. Do you expect to get more support from Democrats?

SANDERS: I mean, we will see. I think there is--

COLLINS: Because of the images we're seeing?

SANDERS: Look, there are a lot of dynamics. And, by the way, that takes us to another crisis that goes beyond Gaza, and that is a corrupt campaign finance system.

So, you have a super PAC called AIPAC that spends hundreds of millions of dollars, trying to defend the Netanyahu government. And if you vote for a Sanders resolution, or you stand up, in other ways, in opposition to Netanyahu, they are prepared to fund a whole lot of money against you. But I think the time is now, when members of the Senate have got to start listening to their constituents, back home. And the American people do not want to spend billions and billions of dollars, supporting this horrific war.

COLLINS: What about what the -- the White House? I mean, President Trump is saying that he's seen this, that the first lady, Melania Trump, has seen these images. He's saying, there is starvation there, you can't fake that.

But when he was asked about new food centers that he wants to establish in Gaza, he said, we're going to be, quote, Dealing with Israel. We think they can do a good job of it.

Do you think the Israelis can do it (ph)?

SANDERS: History indicates that they can't. The only people who are able to do it are various United Nations organizations, and other humanitarian organizations, that did get food into areas where it is difficult to do that.

What you have had recently with this Israeli-U.S. type food distribution project is unbelievable. I mean, this really is quite unbelievable. Desperate people, starving people, lining up, and getting shot, trying to come in and get food for their kids.

So clearly, I think you've got to go back to the international organizations, the U.N. and American humanitarian organizations as well.

COLLINS: What is your view on what the British Prime Minister said today, that if -- the U.K. is going to recognize a Palestinian state, unless Israel has ended the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that's unfolding (ph)?

SANDERS: Well, I think France went further than that recently.

COLLINS: Yes.

SANDERS: And I think the world is -- look, sadly, really sadly, Israel is becoming a pariah nation. And all over the world, people are looking at a situation, where the Government of Israel, under Netanyahu and his right-wing extremist friends, are starving children, and people are trying to do one thing or the other, get food in there, or at least tell Netanyahu that if he doesn't move in a very different direction, they're going to be recognizing the Palestinians there.

And by the way, when you talk about a two-state solution, it's not only a horror in Gaza, are settlers, Israeli settlers, are shooting Palestinians on the West Bank, are destroying their property, and you have vigilantism on the West Bank as well.

COLLINS: Are you -- are you at the point yet where you would call what's happening in Gaza, a genocide?

SANDERS: You can use whatever word you want. COLLINS: But Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying that.

SANDERS: Well, that's good for Marjorie Taylor Greene--

COLLINS: She's the first Republican to go--

SANDERS: Yes, I'm sorry.

COLLINS: --to go there.

[21:40:00]

SANDERS: Yes. Look, I -- genocide is a legal term. What is going on now, clearly, is absolutely horrific. 60,000 people dead, and a 140,000 who have been wounded. But the important point is not what you call it. It is horror. And I think the whole world knows that.

The answer is, what the hell do we do about it? Should the United States' taxpayers, your taxpayer dollars, going to support a government that is doing it? That is the most important issue. So immediately, you got to get ceasefire, you got to get humanitarian aid in. But the United States cannot continue to aid and abet the Netanyahu government doing what it's doing.

COLLINS: Do you want to see United States personnel on the ground, helping distribute aid? I mean, what is -- what is another scenario here, do you think?

SANDERS: You have -- the United Nations has done, under very difficult circumstances, a good job, until they were kicked out by Netanyahu. So, I would like to bring them back, and I think they're prepared to come back.

COLLINS: Can I also ask you about the Epstein news today? It reminded me of a video that you put out, last week, that we talked about at the top of the hour, Ghislaine Maxwell's demands coming out. You said last week that you believe the President should just release the files and, in your view, stop trying to deflect from what he has promised.

Why do you think that the White House, or the Justice Department, has not done that yet given--

SANDERS: Look, I'm not going to--

COLLINS: --given the backlash?

SANDERS: I am -- you know, I'm not going to spec -- this is not my kind of area of expertise.

All I know is that Donald Trump ran his campaign, saying, roughly, If I am elected President, we're going to release the whole file, right? That's what he said. Well, that's what he said. Do it.

Now, why are they not coming clean? Well, everybody in the world has their guesses, you know? And Trump is busy saying, Well, I'm not involved, et cetera, et cetera, so. COLLINS: What's yours?

SANDERS: I'm not going to guess. I'm not going to speculate.

All I know is he promised the American people he would release the files. President Trump, do what you said you would do. Release the files. Let's see what's in them.

COLLINS: Do you support Senator Schumer's move today? He's calling for a counterintelligence analysis, basically saying, he wants them to look at what is in those files, in case they're compromised by a foreign adversary, that they can't be used to blackmail people, here in the U.S.

SANDERS: I guess, yes. I think that makes sense. But bottom line is, get the information out, you know? And it's Trump's supporters who are most avid about this issue. He made them a promise, he should keep it.

COLLINS: Would you be OK with Congress giving her immunity to testify? That's what she wants.

SANDERS: I haven't thought about it. I don't know the answer to that.

COLLINS: No position?

SANDERS: You're the first person who has asked me about it.

COLLINS: OK. Well, when you have a position, will you let us know?

SANDERS: You'll be the first.

COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, we always appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

SANDERS: Thank you.

COLLINS: Up next here. We are staying on top of the breaking news, as we just have those tsunami warnings that have been issued for parts of Russia and Japan, after that massive 8.7 magnitude earthquake. We're going to get a live report from that region on what's happening on the ground -- on the ground, next.

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: There's some breaking news, this hour, with a massive 8.8 magnitude earthquake triggering tsunami alerts for Japan, Alaska, Hawaii and all of the United States West Coast tonight.

The earthquake hit about 74 miles off the far eastern coast of Russia, according to the United States Geological Survey.

CNN's Will Ripley is joining me live now, from Taiwan.

Will, what can you tell us about what this looks like, and what we expect the impacts to be?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So this quake hit off of the Kamchatka Peninsula, which is pretty sparsely populated. So any earthquake damage there, tsunami damage there, is hitting a very sparsely populated rural area.

But it's a much different story in some of these other places where there are now tsunami warnings, in effect, particularly Japan, particularly the U.S. West Coast, Hawaii as well.

And so, obviously, anybody who is in an area where there is a tsunami warning, in effect, there is still a period of time, perhaps hours, before there's any impact.

But we do know that the DART buoys in the Pacific, that measure the rising waves from a tsunami, this is from the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, they've already measured a three-foot ocean rise. And these waves get progressively bigger as they go towards shore. And sometimes, there's a first wave that's smaller, and then the second and third wave is even bigger.

And so, when you're talking about the potential of an up to three- meter tsunami, which is almost a 10-foot wave, that could have significant damage and flooding in areas, particularly structures that aren't built to withstand that, or that don't have tsunami walls along their coastline. That wave could sweep away cars, and it could very easily sweep away a person. A much smaller wave than that could sweep away a person, it could be extremely deadly.

So, if people are potentially in the path of these affected coastal areas, if they're getting ready to go to bed, or if they're getting ready to head out for the evening, they need to monitor very closely, the warnings from local authorities, and start to think about steps that they need to take to get to safer higher ground, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. I mean, it's obviously, you look at these alerts that you can see here, for the entire West Coast of the United States, raising questions about what they could be preparing for, what this could look like. But also just, how this compares to past earthquakes and tsunami warnings.

Will Ripley, thank you for that report. We'll check back in with you.

We also have more on our breaking news this hour. A lot of it's coming in. This is from Capitol Hill tonight, where Republican senators have just voted, moments ago, to confirm a controversial former Trump attorney, to a lifetime judgeship. Our legal sources will weigh in, next.

[21:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: There's some breaking news out of Capitol Hill tonight, where the Senate has just voted to confirm Emil Bove as a federal appellate judge, granting him a lifetime appointment to President Trump's former personal attorney, one of the most controversial nominees we've seen playing out over the last few months.

Two Republicans voted with Democrats against his nomination. That is senators Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski.

My sources tonight are:

CNN's Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent, Paula Reid.

And also, the former Deputy FBI Director, Andrew McCabe.

Paula, he was not at the Justice Department in leadership for very long. But it generated so much controversy that, we're talking about this confirmation that typically probably wouldn't get as many headlines as this has.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And he's someone who intentionally shuns the limelight.

But he was there before Todd Blanche, before Pam Bondi, before they were confirmed. And he had to go there and do what the President wanted him to do. He had to make a lot of controversial moves. He pushed out a lot of career people. And he also targeted January 6th prosecutors and investigators.

[21:55:00]

And the most controversial thing he was involved in was, of course, dropping the corruption case against New York Mayor, Eric Adams, something that looked on his face to be a quid pro quo, but was ultimately upheld by a judge.

Now, I've also spoken with a lot of folks who have worked with Bove, for several years, now as part of Trump's legal team, and they defend him. They say, Look, this is someone who served as a federal prosecutor for over a decade. He's been a defense attorney on the other side of DOJ, and a top DOJ official. They told me, they believe this is exactly who you want on the federal bench.

COLLINS: Well, and there have been questions about a whistleblower coming in here at the last minute. I mean, obviously what we saw, as this played out, was a lot of Republicans seeming to shrug off any concerns about that. I mean, and for the White House, it never really seemed like his confirmation was in doubt.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Yes, I think all along there was -- you never really had a strong sense of multiple Republicans saying, Absolutely not, I'm not going to vote for this guy. No, no, we -- there were two that ultimately did not vote for him.

But it is kind of remarkable, in the wake of all of that controversy, you have a guy who is relatively undistinguished, compared to people who are typically elevated to the appellate court, very brief time in DOJ Main.

He spent a little bit more time as a line U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York, but not without controversy there either. Been the subject of complaints from other defense attorneys, had been the subject of kind of workplace complaints from staffers, known as being somebody who's very hard to work with.

But the thing that really stands out to me the most about him was this is a person who, from all reporting, threw himself into the January 6th prosecutions with absolute vigor. He was actually a supporter of trying to pull all of the January 6th cases to the New York -- Southern District of New York prosecutor's office. Very, very aggressive prosecutor.

And then, once in DOJ, kind of working at the President's behest, completely turned around and has essentially led the charge of firing those prosecutors who were involved in investigating and prosecuting this case.

COLLINS: And he is someone, for people who weren't inside the courtroom when we were -- Paula, when Trump was on trial. I mean, he was in there, every single day, by the President's side, where Trump was tapping him on the shoulder, passing him and the other members of legal team, notes. I mean, he's someone who certainly may not have the trust of some of these Democrats, obviously, but did earn the trust of the President, I mean.

And to the whistleblower thing, what we were told of is that members of the Senate Judiciary Committee were made aware of an audio recording that he -- of a meeting that he had held with prosecutors, where he was telling them to push to follow orders and dismiss the federal corruption case against Mayor Eric Adams.

REID: Yes, and this was arguably his biggest controversy, his biggest liability. Because there are some reasonable arguments to be made about corruption cases. They can be difficult to prove. There are reasons that you might want to drop it.

But those are not the arguments that the Justice Department made. And it looked on its face, again, to be a quid pro quo, that if Adams helped with immigration enforcement, we'll make this pesky case go away.

I will emphasize, though, a judge ultimately did approve that decision, it was within their power. And that's where Bove's controversy, most of it lies. It's playing at the edges of the Justice Department's power, its ability, to implement what Trump wants.

And this is a message. This is the first time, he's appointed a personal attorney to the federal bench. And I think it's a message to a lot of these other former personal attorneys, who are slogging it out for the President, that, If you do my bidding, there will be a reward for you at the end.

MCCABE: Yes, and--

COLLINS: Well, and that reward is a lifetime appointment.

REID: Yes. MCCABE: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean, this is what the kind of the White House's view of this, as they were defending him was, once he gets this job, I mean, he has this job for life now.

MCCABE: He absolutely does. So, inconsistent record on January 6th, controversial record with respect to the Eric Adams case, all of this controversy. The one thing that is not in question is his absolute loyalty to Donald Trump. That is something he has proven time and time again. And clearly, that's the thing that was most important to the President.

COLLINS: But you know -- obviously, Democrats don't like him. I heard from some of them saying, you know, their question was, would you rather him be in the Third Circuit, in this job, in this lifetime appointment, or be the number three at the DOJ, where he has wielded a lot of power, as you rightfully pointed out--

REID: Yes.

COLLINS: --getting there before the A.G. or the Deputy A.G. were even in position.

REID: Yes, and he was running the show before Todd Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General, before Pam Bondi, before they got confirmed.

I will say, the other outstanding question about him is really where he stands on pretty much any issue. Usually, by the time you get to the Court of Appeals, you have some sort of record as a judge, and we know where you stand.

MCCABE: That's right.

REID: He doesn't really have any record, in terms of where he stands. So, we expect that the President will get what he wants in this seat. But you never know.

COLLINS: We'll find out a lot.

Paula Reid. Andrew McCabe. Great to have you both on this.

Also tonight, as we noted earlier, we've been keeping a close eye, this hour, on these tsunami alerts that are happening in Hawaii, Alaska, and the entire West Coast of the United States, this hour.

[22:00:00]

That's because, a massive 8.8 magnitude earthquake hit tonight off Russia's remote and sparsely populated far eastern coast, as you can see here. Officials in Russia say that a tsunami wave, about three to four meters high, has been recorded in a district near the epicenter there.

We're continuing to monitor that, and keep a close eye on it. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I'm going to hand it -- joining us tonight. I'm going to hand it over to Abby Phillip, as "CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.