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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
National Guard Deploys To D.C. As Part Of Trump's Takeover; Trump-Putin Summit Will Take Place At U.S. Military Base Friday; Trump Taps Bureau Of Labor Statistics Critic To Lead Agency. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 12, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And just to solidify the power of Taylor Swift, even more, the iconic Empire State Building got in on the action, lighting up New York City in orange, overnight, and sharing the message on social media, Onto the next era.
Elizabeth Wagmeister. CNN. Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Can't wait to hear her.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: The National Guard has arrived in the nation's capital tonight, as the Mayor of Washington, D.C. is warning that other cities could be next.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Here in Washington tonight, President Trump's federal takeover of law enforcement is in full effect, this evening, as some of the 800 National Guard troops deployed have now started to arrive, as you can see here, and are hitting the streets of D.C.
As we come on air, you see the National Guard members and military vehicles. These are lined up outside the Washington Monument, in the pictures that you're seeing here. And from the White House, to the Capitol, and across the city of 700,000 people, the streets of Washington appear calm for now. We have CNN crews out on the ground, monitoring the situation.
As, there are still questions this evening about who exactly is calling the shots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER, (D) WASHINGTON, D.C.: So the executive order is clear. The President has requested MPD services, and our Home Rule Charter outlines the process. The President designated Attorney General Bondi as his proxy to request services through me. REPORTER: But does the Attorney General have the authority to implement changes in MPD or just request changes?
BOWSER: The executive order is pretty clear, and so is the law. The President has the authority, by virtue of the statute, to request services. Our organizational chart, how we do business, how we fund the police, how we make changes, none of that has changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was the Mayor of D.C., Muriel Bowser, shortly after her meeting with the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, saying the Feds are requesting services for her.
As D.C.'s Police Chief, had this to say when she was asked if she reports to the Mayor or to the DEA Administrator, Terry Cole, whom the President and the Attorney General have deputized to oversee the D.C. Police Department tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you answering to Terry Cole and to Pam Bondi?
CHIEF PAMELA SMITH, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: I answer to the Mayor -- I answer to Mayor Muriel Bowser.
REPORTER: What--
SMITH: And let me just say this. Let us not have any controversy with that, OK? Because I know people want to build upon and create division. We're here to work together with our federal partners, and that's what we're going to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, at the White House today, here's what the press secretary had to say about who is actually running the MPD, at this time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In all that's happening in D.C. with the federal takeover, what we've heard from the Mayor and the Police Chief is that their understanding is there has been no change in the leadership structure. In the White House's view, who is in charge of the MPD right now?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: If you read the executive order, it will tell you. The leadership structure is as follows. We plan to work with the Metropolitan Police Department. But ultimately, the chain of command is as such. The President of the United States, the Attorney General of the United States, our DEA Administrator, Terry Cole, who is now serving ahead of the Chief of the Metropolitan Police Department, and they will be working together.
COLLINS: So the President's in charge of the MPD? LEAVITT: No. Terry Cole, as you heard from this briefing room yesterday, is in charge of the Metropolitan -- Metropolitan Police Department, and he's working with the Chief, to ensure that law enforcement officers are allowed to do their jobs in this city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So that means the President, who designated the Attorney General, who designated the DEA Administrator, who is now in charge of the D.C. Metro Police Department, and will work with the Chief here.
As we tried to ask that newly-minted DEA chief about what this power structure, this power breakdown, looks like, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Questions for us, Mr. Administrator?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --questions?
COLLINS: How are you splitting your duties as DEA Administrator and head of the MPD?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll let the (ph) D.C. Police Chief report to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would there be a change in rules of engagement--
COLLINS: How did your meeting go today?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The newly-minted Administrator not stopping to answer our questions there.
But we did learn today that some 850 officers and agents, fanned out across Washington, last night, as the White House says there were 23 arrests for homicide, drunk driving, gun and drug crimes, and also subway fare evasion. As the FBI confirms tonight, it assisted with 10 of those arrests. And it remains to be seen how night two goes.
My lead source tonight is the former Deputy FBI Director, Andrew McCabe, to start us off.
[21:05:00]
And obviously, with the National Guard troops now appearing on the streets of D.C., as we saw them earlier, lining up by the Washington Monument, our understanding is they've moved from that spot now. It's not really clear where they're going next.
What are you going to be watching for, though, now that we actually see them out on D.C. streets?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Sure. So fundamentally, this entire effort, whether it's the Guard, or it's FBI agents, or DEA agents, whoever else from that 500- person federal task force that they've deployed, all of those resources need to work with the Metropolitan Police Department.
It is only the officers of the MPD that know the city, know the neighborhoods, know the criminal actors, know the gangs, know where the problems are, and, of course, where they're not.
So, what I'll be looking for is to see a much clearer line of chain of command than what we've -- what we've seen so far, from what you detailed in the intro.
COLLINS: Yes, did that make sense to you of who -- like if you're the Police Chief, or -- and you're listening to that and seeing what each different group is saying, from the Mayor, to the Police Chief, to the White House, is it clear to you what that chain of command looks like tonight?
MCCABE: Not at all. And you can't have two chiefs. At the end of the day, there needs to be one person in charge of that law enforcement organization. Whether that's going to be Terry Cole, or the -- or the current Chief, really remains to be seen.
And I think, Mr. Cole, I'm sure he's a talented, experienced career law enforcement person from the federal side. He spent his career in the DEA. But he spent no time running a Metropolitan Police Department, no time as a police officer on the street.
There are complexities and challenges, within large city police departments, dealing with collective bargaining agreements, and rules and regulations imposed upon the force by union membership.
For instance, federal agents, like FBI agents and DEA agents, we don't work shifts. We just show up and work as long and as often as we're told to. Obviously, that doesn't work in most police departments, where all -- the union -- the officers are unionizing, can only work a certain period of time, and then they have to be paid overtime.
COLLINS: And the new DEA chief has been on the job only for a matter of weeks, since he's been confirmed. He is a lifelong DEA agent. He spent years there.
MCCABE: Right.
COLLINS: He was actually asked today about what his role looks like. I want you to listen to what he had to say about that.
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TERRY COLE, INTERIM FEDERAL COMMISSIONER, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPT.: I have to tell you that the Chief of Police has been very accommodating. I have an office there, in the Metropolitan Police Department. Very accommodating to introducing me to the entire command staff, very open to sharing ideas on how we're going to do this together, to combat violent criminal activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, he's saying he has an office there. They are both kind of going out of their way to do this delicate dance of saying that they're being accommodating, they're working together.
MCCABE: Right.
COLLINS: I do think there's a question of what happens, though, when they disagree, if they disagree, about what is the right choice, and who gets the ultimate decision-making here, because the White House basically says, It's the DEA chief.
MCCABE: Yes, things are much easier when everybody's getting along, right?
And to be clear, as a note of background, the D.C. law enforcement community is incredibly complicated. There are so many federal entities, here in D.C., and then, of course, there's the MPD, and they work very well together. When you see them doing things together, like presidential inaugurations, or national security special events, things of that nature, where everyone is out there, working together. The lanes in the road are clear and well-understood by everyone.
This, however, is a very different situation. I think it's admirable that they're all going into this, with this sense of cooperation and positivity. But at the end of the day, the White House has been quite clear, one person runs the MPD. And right now, it's going to be Terry Cole, reporting to the President.
COLLINS: And with the FBI -- obviously, you're the former Deputy Director of the FBI. You heard Kash Patel, the current Director, saying they helped with 10 of those arrests last night. I think there's questions. We'll see what happens tonight.
But the argument we heard from the White House today is, Yes, crime is down in Washington compared to where it was last year, but it's still high. It's still a problem here.
And so, I think some people might look at this and say, Well, maybe I don't agree with the federal takeover of the police, or putting the National Guard on the streets. But how do you address this when it comes to what we're seeing in the current landscape here in Washington?
MCCABE: Any crime is too much crime. We always are trying to drive the crime rates down. The idea that you're going to be able to do that in a significant way, in this city, in 30 days, with the infusion of federal officers is really specious.
There are ways that the federal government could help D.C. to try to drive the crime rate down in specific areas.
First of all, they could give them the $1 billion Congress is currently withholding from D.C. A lot of that money could be used to spend on overtime, to get additional MPD officers on the streets, in the neighborhoods where they're needed.
You've got nine judicial vacancies in the courthouse that serves the city. That's nine judges who could be hearing cases, hearing trials, sentencing convicted offenders. [21:10:00]
So, there's all kinds of ways the White House could be helping that aren't quite as splashy, and media-worthy as sending in the troops. It's a good question as to why they're not pursuing those other more substantive avenues.
COLLINS: Yes, and we saw Jeanine Pirro talking about those vacancies in her office today. We'll see what they do with that.
Andrew McCabe, great to have you here.
And I should also note tonight, speaking of what we heard from the Mayor, here in Washington, Mayor Bowser, she also has a warning for other major American cities, after President Trump declared they too could be next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOWSER: The quick answer would be, he wants to send the message to cities that if he can get away with this in Los Angeles, if he can get away with this in D.C.? He can get away with it in New York, or Baltimore, or Chicago, or any other place, where millions of people live, work and are doing everything the right way. And it is a step in fascism, when the federal government can bigfoot sovereign states.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next source tonight is the Philadelphia District Attorney, Larry Krasner.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
Because, you hear the warning there, from the Mayor, of what she believes could happen. And we do hear the President saying, other U.S. major cities could be next here. I wonder if that's a pledge that you take seriously tonight.
LARRY KRASNER, (D) PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, sadly, we do, because I think the bottom line is that President Trump doesn't like public safety. He's a convicted criminal himself. He pardons people who are criminals, and do pretty dastardly things, like cause the deaths of five different law enforcement officers, during January 6th.
There is no indication that this man is in favor of law-abiding behavior of public safety. But he is in favor of power. He is in favor of fascism. He is in favor of ending democracy.
And what he's trying to do here is not normal. As Wanda Sykes, one of my faves, would say, it's not normal, to act like you can go into a city that is having tremendous progress, 30-year low in crime, and call it an emergency, and bring in a bunch of troops who aren't even trained for this kind of work.
He may think he's going to try it in other places. But the fact is, legally, he has much less of a right to do any of this, in other cities, and he better not try it in Philly.
COLLINS: Yes, because obviously, with the existing power structures here. I mean, he's invoking the Home Rule, here in Washington. That's what the Mayor was talking about earlier.
I mean, but if he does try it in a city like yours, what do you do? Do you file a lawsuit over that?
KRASNER: Well, what we do, because we believe in the law, and he does not, is we go to the courts, and hopefully we have judges who still believe in the law, even if some of his hacks on the Supreme Court do not.
What we do is we stand up, we resist, we fight. This is the cradle of democracy, in Philadelphia. We have a beautiful city, a beautiful, diverse city, a beautiful Democratic city, and that's why our name has been in his mouth, in malicious ways, for a very, very long time.
The 10th Amendment says he cannot take over the Philadelphia Police Department as he is doing in D.C. D.C. is different. It's not a state. Pennsylvania is a state, and Philadelphia is its biggest city. Our police department is controlled by the Mayor. And oh, trust me, this mayor does not work for Donald Trump, and neither do we.
So, we will stand on this constitutional right that has been there forever. We will stand on the reality that you cannot claim, It is an emergency, when Philadelphia, as of today, has the lowest number of homicides in over 50 years. We may set the record, the record, for lowest crime overall in Philadelphia for more than 50 years, and at the same time we have some of the lowest incarceration. That's not an emergency.
COLLINS: Yes.
KRASNER: Donald Trump is the emergency. Folks, listen, the emergency is Donald Trump. It is not anything else. And if you want your democracy, you better stand up now.
COLLINS: When you say that, and you say he is the emergency, what are you trying to warn about?
KRASNER: This is a staging ground. This is a normalization of troops being deployed to do what they should not be asked to do, what they're not equipped to do, and what violates the Constitution and laws.
And why is he doing it? He's doing it for the same reason he had that stupid birthday parade. He's doing it, because he really likes the idea of being a dictator. He likes the idea of destroying our legal system. He likes the idea of eliminating the courts and taking away individual rights.
I mean, look what he's doing, talking about people who are unhoused as if they're criminals. They're not criminals. They need a place to sleep. They need food. You know? Last time I checked the Bible, it said, Take everything you have and give it to the poor. It didn't say. Steal everything you can from the poor and lock them up. And that's what he's doing here.
[21:15:00]
This is a profoundly un-American attempt to exercise power in ways that are illegal, to scare big cities, and to go after Democratic cities that are diverse, to serve his racist, fascist agenda. I'm sorry to put it out so plain, but that is what this is, and we all have to stand up to it.
COLLINS: Can I ask you? Because, when we talk about these numbers with the White House on crime, the numbers that you just listed, for Philadelphia, specifically, they may say, Yes, that is what -- you know, they're looking at the homicide rate falling to its lowest in two decades, after it peaked in 2022. But they might look at numbers saying, Well, in the last year, Philadelphia has not been able to bring down instances of rape. There's been a 24 percent rise in thefts, aggravated assaults with guns that are ticking up, and auto thefts.
What would you say if there's a resident in Philadelphia who says, I'd like to see that changed, and maybe I like what the President is doing. What would you say to them?
KRASNER: Well, first of all, I'd say, you might want to -- you might want to include the whole slide, because out of the 18 categories, 15 are down. What you showed was three that are up, but 15 are down. Homicide's way down. Way down--
COLLINS: Yes, because you mentioned the ones that are down.
KRASNER: Well, the reality is, we're massively down. We're going to set a record. And it's not two decades. It's five decades. We've never seen anything like this, in Philadelphia.
So, there is no emergency here except Donald Trump, OK? You're not a 34-time felon, Kaitlan. I'm not a 34-time felon. The person directing this, claiming he's in favor of public safety, is a 34-time felon. And if he went to court for his other crimes, we'd be looking at more felonies than that.
Let's not kid ourselves. He doesn't like public safety. He likes public disorder. That gives him an excuse to roll tanks. That's what he wants. That's what dictators want. So, let's not get lost in his silly argument, his silly distraction, from the fact that he doesn't want to give up information on his own involvement in a pedophile ring. Did we all forget about that? Let's not get away from that, and let's not get into his silly arguments.
This country may have its lowest year of crime, on record, this year, at the same time, this man is claiming a public safety emergency. Donald Trump is the public safety emergency. It's him, and we all need to stand up to that, or we are going to lose our country.
COLLINS: Philadelphia District Attorney, Larry Krasner, I appreciate you joining with your perspective tonight.
KRASNER: Thank you, Kaitlan. Appreciate it.
COLLINS: Up next. We have just learned the exact location of where presidents Trump and Putin are going to be meeting, just days from now, in Alaska, their first face-to-face in years. As questions still remain tonight about the outcome of the summit, and what that could look like, especially if President Zelenskyy is not there.
We have the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, and a former top official to Donald Trump, both here tonight.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: New tonight. Press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, confirmed to me that President Trump and President Putin will meet one-on-one, as part of their upcoming summit, this Friday, in Anchorage, Alaska.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I have two questions. One on D.C. But on the Putin meeting, on Friday, does the President plan to meet with Putin one-on-one?
LEAVITT: Yes, that's part of the plan. And as for the other mechanics and logistics, I will let our team speak to that when they're ironed out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That face-to-face meeting, which is being described by the White House as a, quote, Listening exercise, will take place at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson. It's on the northern edge of the city, as you can see here.
Officials have been scrambling, over the last few days, to lock down a venue for this major summit. Some prominent Alaskans even offering up their homes as an option, according to CNN reporting tonight. Officials ultimately decided, though, that the base met the requirements for the historic meeting, even though the White House had been hoping to avoid the optics of hosting the Russian leader on a U.S. military installation.
Trump and Putin are going to be meeting, for the first time, since Trump retook office, and also as Russian troops are making key advances against Ukraine's patchy defensive line tonight.
The President has suggested that land swaps could be in the future of any agreement between Russia and Ukraine.
But we're hearing from President Zelenskyy tonight, who's vowing not to give eastern Ukrainian land to Russia, asking journalists today, this question: Leave Donetsk? And what is the compromise? Will we be in NATO? In the EU? I haven't heard anything -- not a single proposal that would guarantee that a new war won't start tomorrow.
My lead source tonight is the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine under President Clinton, Steven Pifer.
And it's great to have you here, Ambassador.
Because, I think, there is a question about how Zelenskyy is looking ahead to this meeting on Friday, and the skepticism that he clearly has on land swaps. What do you make of that, and whether or not it would open up basically a new opening for a Russian offensive in Zelenskyy's eyes?
STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: No, I think that's exactly Zelenskyy's concern, is that if he's has to make some land swaps, but there's no ironclad security guarantee? What's to stop Putin and the Russians from launching a new war, two or three years down the road, after they've reconstituted the Russian military?
So Kaitlan, I think this is a very important point for the Ukrainians. I was in Kyiv, about three months ago, and some Ukrainians were saying, OK, we could perhaps accept the loss of some territory. Not legally, they would not recognize it, but accept the fact that it's going to be occupied for some period of time. But they said they need to have an oath that the rest of Ukraine has an ironclad security guarantee, so that this not become just the first phase, and then there's a second phase of the Russian war at some point down the road.
COLLINS: Well, and as you well know, from your time as the Ambassador, in the 90s, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, what was then the world's third largest arsenal, as part of the Budapest Memorandum. You were an Ambassador, then, after that happened, 1998 -- 2000, obviously you're part of it.
[21:25:00]
They want guarantee -- security guarantees. But I wonder what a good security guarantee, coming out of Friday, if there's any movement made on this, what that would look like in their eyes?
PIFER: Yes, well, I think I could see two or three possible security guarantees.
The best one to my mind would be to bring Ukraine into NATO. That's going to be very hard to do at this point.
A second guarantee, suggested by the British and French, earlier this year, was they might put together a force, a coalition of the willing, to put boots on the ground in Ukraine to provide some assurance to the Ukrainians. But the British and the French would like some American backstopping, in case that force ever came under attack.
And the third possibility, if the West is not prepared to give a security guarantee to Ukraine, would be what's sometimes called the porcupine model. The West would arm Ukraine to the teeth. We're not talking about 30 or 40 F-16s. We're talking about 300 or 400. So that Ukraine would have a military that the Russians would be deterred in the future and would never attack again.
But so far, there's been no talk about this. It's all just about land swaps, and that's not going to interest the Ukrainians, unless they hear the other part, which is, What's the security guarantee for the rest of Ukraine?
COLLINS: What will you be watching for the most on Friday?
PIFER: I worry about Friday.
First of all, it's a victory for Vladimir Putin, because President Trump has broken Putin out of his isolation. Since February of 2022, Western leaders have boycotted these meetings. So the fact of this meeting, that's a win for Putin.
But what I'll be worried about is if there's any sign that they actually begin to get into a conversation about the details. Putin doesn't want to negotiate a settlement with Zelenskyy.
He wants to negotiate a settlement with Trump. And that's because Putin intimately knows the details. He knows how to spin things. And if you get into that conversation, particularly if it's one-on-one, there's a possibility that Mr. Trump could agree to some things, which would be very bad for Ukraine, that the Ukrainians would reject, and the Europeans also would reject.
So, this is a trap that Putin has laid for the President. The President has to be very careful and not walk into it.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously that's certainly not how the White House sees it, but we'll see what happens on Friday.
Ambassador Steven Pifer, great to have your expertise on this tonight. Thank you.
PIFER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also here, former Ambassador John Bolton, who was also Trump's former National Security Adviser, who was in the room during past meetings between Trump and Putin, and joins me now. And it's great to have you here.
With the White House, very quickly, saying Yes, they will be meeting one-on-one. They've done this before, as you well know, sir. They had that meeting, the G20 summit in Hamburg. They had the one-on-one in Helsinki, you were there for that summit. I wonder what you believe -- what's your thought on him, meeting with him, one-on-one?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Well, presidents do this all the time. That, in and of itself, isn't very remarkable.
But I think Putin's main objective that he's already scored heavily on, before even meeting with Trump, but is to try to recreate in Trump's mind that they're friends.
Trump has been saying this for a long time. He's got good personal relations, he and Vladimir are friends. And that's why he was so disappointed, I think, in the first six months that his friend, Vladimir, didn't give him a ceasefire agreement.
I think Putin knows he pushed Trump sort of beyond the envelope, and he's going to try and roll him back in, using all of his best KGB training. I think, from Putin's point of view, in an ideal world, he would get Trump talking about his draft, quote-unquote, peace plan, and maybe even get Trump to adopt it as his.
COLLINS: Do you think Trump will see through that though, given he has been pretty frustrated with Putin lately, and has said, We have these great conversations, and then he goes and strikes Kyiv, and it's the worst strike since the war started. I mean, do you think that he'll have that in the back of his mind, going into this?
BOLTON: Well, he's made his views on Putin, over the past three or four weeks, pretty clear.
On the other hand, when Witkoff came back from Moscow, with Putin's request to have a meeting, presumably reported it to Trump on Wednesday or Thursday of last week. By Friday, Trump had already decided he wanted the meeting.
He wants this meeting, so he and Putin will be in the center of the world stage. And Putin will be -- will be trying to get what he wants. Trump gets what he wants just by having Putin there. Notwithstanding, it's on an American military base. I'm sure, the incoming Russian planes are just going to be delighted to look down and see what they see on the ground at Elmendorf.
COLLINS: I mean, and obviously that's been a question. I know you said that the only other favorable condition for them would be to have it in Moscow.
[21:30:00]
I was thinking about this, in Helsinki, last time, when Trump was meeting with Putin in that major summit, he was surrounded by Russia hawks on his team. You were there. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. The Defense Secretary, Jim Mattis.
I wonder what you expect from the national security team that will be around him, in Alaska, this week, on Friday.
BOLTON: Well, it's hard to say, in part because the consequences of the Witkoff meeting, in Moscow, last week, I don't think we fully understand.
Witkoff came back so confused by what Putin had told him, that one reason they may be lowering expectations, in the White House briefing room, these days, is that they recognize that the plan that Putin gave to Witkoff was not a plan that was going to fly with Zelenskyy at all, and they got too far out over their skis.
So it's -- I think, there's -- there's obviously no preparation, no -- no real preparation for this hastily-called summit. Not that that's unusual for Trump. But I think a lot of things are up in the air. I think this plays very much in Putin's favor. He knows his brief. He knows everything he needs to know about Russia, Ukraine, Europe, you name it. And Trump will be deciding, as he said yesterday, in the first two minutes, whether there's a deal there.
COLLINS: So you think the White House -- I mean, Trump says that. The White House says it's a listening exercise. You see that as them lowering expectations of what's coming out of Friday?
BOLTON: Right. I also see a zero possibility, Trump will be doing a lot of listening.
I'm going to be very interested to see how it comes out Friday, how long the one-on-one lasts. And, by the way, there will be, I hope, an American interpreter in the room, whose memory and notes can tell the rest of the American delegation what was said in that room. But if that's very long, and the meeting between the two delegations is very short? That's going to be an interesting fact. A lot could be contained in that.
COLLINS: Yes, and just to be clear, we say one-on-one. That typically does mean with interpreters for -- I mean, obviously you know that. But for people who aren't, tracking these world meetings like we are.
But I wonder what you make of The New York Times reporting tonight, as we're looking at the dynamic with Russia, they say that Russia is still hacking the United States, this time, breaching a computer system that manages federal court documents. And The New York Times says that quote, includes, Highly sensitive records that may contain information that could reveal sources and people charged with national security crimes.
That being the backdrop to what you pointed out there of this being held at a U.S. military base.
BOLTON: Yes, well, maybe Trump can confront Putin with this story, and say, Are you hacking into our court system? And see if Putin denies it, or says what he has typically said, There are no Russian state actors involved? Which leaves open the implication, maybe there are Russian non-state actors involved. And then ask him, if they hold a joint press conference, ask him. Maybe we'll see a repeat of Helsinki, or maybe Trump will get it right this time.
COLLINS: Ambassador John Bolton, obviously you were in the room, last time. Good to hear from you on what this time could look like. Thanks so much.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COLLINS: And coming up here. The President's new pick to run the Bureau of Labor Statistics has apparently backtracked, after floating suspending the monthly jobs report. This, as more of his past criticisms of the Bureau are coming to light. What he thinks of the place he could very well lead.
My next source led the agency once. We'll get her reaction, next.
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the President's pick to replace the Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner they fired, over a weak jobs report and its revisions, now seems to be backtracking on an idea to suspend the Bureau's monthly jobs report, at least temporarily. That report, of course, is one of the most crucial and historic measurements of U.S. economic activity. Its data is used by the U.S. government, businesses, Wall Street.
But in an interview that took place, earlier this month, and published today, E.J. Antoni, suggested it was time to do away with the monthly report claiming that it's unreliable. He made those comments, I should note, before the President nominated him to be the next BLS chief.
But now, a former Trump adviser, who recommended him for the job, tells CNN that he may have changed his mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: I think it's a bad idea to do that. In fact, I've talked to E.J. about it, and he's not going to do that. We need monthly numbers. Now, what he's talking about is we do a quarterly number that's much more accurate than the monthly one. He's saying, Well, maybe we -- but he's backed off that. We're going to continue to do monthly numbers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Kathy Utgoff, the former Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who was appointed by President George W. Bush.
And it's great to have you here, Kathy.
Because obviously, that's what Steve Moore is saying. We don't know that he has actually said this himself. I don't think we've heard that from Trump's next pick.
But I wonder what would happen, if the BLS did just stop issuing the monthly jobs report until the process, and the White House's view, is, quote, Corrected?
KATHY UTGOFF, FORMER COMMISSIONER, U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS: Well, you can ask Jerome Powell, what he thinks of that. He needs data as accurate as possible, as soon as possible. You don't want to wait for a quarter, to make decisions about what to do with interest rates.
That's just a demonstrably bad idea, and shows he doesn't really understand the data or how it's being used.
COLLINS: I mean, if you worked there, and you heard that your new boss -- obviously he's got to be confirmed by the Senate. Your new boss, that's how they viewed the BLS, and the work, and the monthly reports, which obviously are not compiled just solely by the Commissioner, but by a lot of people? I wonder how you think the rank-and-file feels about that.
[21:40:00]
UTGOFF: Yes, that's a very good point. When he fired the past Commissioner, I was not all that worried, because I knew that BLS was a very good place.
But now I am worried, because people there could easily quit. They have lost people. They can't hire people. There are senior people who have left. But would you stay and work for an agency that's being degraded the way he (ph) has? It's a serious problem.
COLLINS: We've actually heard from him. He did Steve Bannon's podcast before. This was an interview he did with Fox Business, where he made the comment about suspending the monthly jobs report.
He also did Steve Bannon's podcast, and he talked about the need for a Republican who is more aligned with MAGA to lead BLS. That was hours before Trump actually fired the Commissioner.
I want you to listen to what he had to say, after Trump fired Erika McEntarfer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, EXECUTIVE AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Walk us through what today means. You've criticized this now for years. You really did a very detailed job today. The President, shortly thereafter, terminated the head. Put it in perspective, where are we, sir?
E.J. ANTONI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: What today demonstrates is just how powerful this show and its audience is, quite frankly, and also the fact that the President is among the audience, clearly, because it was this show that brought the issue to his attention. So what this really means is the fact that we are holding federal bureaucrats accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of his view of this, and whether you believe he is personally qualified for the job?
UTGOFF: It's -- all economists from all sides have said he is not qualified for the job. In fact, that he would be a dangerous appointment, because he is so obviously biased. And it's a big problem that the -- Trump is being is -- is being waylaid by something that he should not (ph) be paying attention to. And they should have known that this was a very bad choice.
COLLINS: At one point--
UTGOFF: Most Americans, they can't tell -- they can't tell one boring economist from another, but they do know that his new pick is very associated with Project 2025. Americans do know that, and they've said they don't like that plan. And Trump had to step away from it. So, this is a mistake on the --and the Democrats are demanding that they have a confirmation hearing, because they know it's going to be a bloodbath.
COLLINS: Yes, and we will see if it is. Seems Senate Republicans have been confirming most, if not all, of Trump's choices. But we'll see what happens there.
Kathy, it's great to have you here tonight. Kathy Utgoff, thanks for your time.
UTGOFF: Thank you.
COLLINS: We have more breaking news this hour, as the White House tonight is now launching a review of the Smithsonian museums, here in Washington, to ensure they align with President Trump's directive about what they believe should and should not be displayed.
The reporter, who broke that excellent story, joins me next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: As President Trump asserts control over Washington's police force, as we've been seeing that play out tonight, he's also moving to transform major cultural and historical institutions within the nation's capital tonight, with the White House now ordering a review of eight major Smithsonian museums and exhibits to ensure that they line up with President Trump's interpretation of American history.
This comes, after the President signed an order, back in March, as you'll recall, calling for the restoration of Truth and Sanity to American History, as the White House put it.
In a letter that was sent to the Smithsonian Institution Secretary, Lonnie Bunch, top Trump aides say, and I'm quoting them now, that the White House's initiative aims to ensure alignment with the President's directive to celebrate American exceptionalism, remove divisive or partisan narratives, and restore confidence in our shared cultural institutions.
Tonight, my White House insiders are:
Meridith McGraw, the reporter who first broke the story for The Wall Street Journal.
And Jasmine Wright of NOTUS.
Meridith, can you just kind of walk us through, what the White House is envisioning for this review to look like?
MERIDITH MCGRAW, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, AUTHOR, "TRUMP IN EXILE": Yes, so the White House sent the Smithsonian, this letter today, to Lonnie Bunch, who leads the Smithsonian. And they said that they're planning this comprehensive review that's going to take place, over many months, and they're asking for things, like lists of exhibits, the little placards that you see at the museum underneath different exhibits. They're wanting to get the digitized version of those. They want to get details about how they curate items in the museum, how they think about which artists to present at some of the museums.
And all of this is with the goal of presenting a re-evaluated version of American history, ahead of America's 250th anniversary, which really is a big priority for the White House, and for President Trump.
COLLINS: Yes, he talks about it constantly. He was just talking about it yesterday, I believe.
But on this, the names on the letter were really interesting to me. It was Lindsey Halligan, who is a former personal attorney to the President's. She's now in the Counsel's Office, I believe. Russ Vought, who is the Budget chief here.
MCGRAW: Right.
COLLINS: I mean, these were the aides, who were the ones sending this letter saying, This is what the President wants.
I wonder what that said to you?
MCGRAW: Yes, well, the Smithsonian's Board of Regents includes people like Vice President Vance.
And in that executive order that President Trump put out, earlier this year, that called for re-evaluating different pieces of American history, and really criticized the Smithsonian, it also mentioned Lindsey Halligan in there. And she's been one of Trump's aides that has been going to the museums and has been touring.
[21:50:00]
Vince Haley, who's the Director of the Domestic Policy Council, who's really been leading the charge on America's 250th celebrations, he's also one of the signatures on that letter, and he's really taken the charge within the White House, to think about some of the events, but also think about how the White House is approaching history and some of these cultural institutions as well.
COLLINS: Yes, and I think on this -- on its own, Jasmine, this would be one thing. But it's in terms of what has happening here in Washington, with the police force, the interactions between the administration and universities, across the United States, now trying to reshape the Smithsonians here in Washington, ahead of next year, all to the President's liking, and what he believes they should be doing.
JASMINE WRIGHT, POLITICS REPORTER, NOTUS: Yes, I mean, it's a pattern, and we're going to see it continue tomorrow, when the President goes to the Kennedy Center and unveils his Kennedy Honors. There's questions about how they've actually come to decide who is going to get honored, this time.
I was talking to some Democrats, and I think that their concerns land on two planes.
The first is, of course, what those revisions will look like. I think people are concerned of whether the revisions will look like some of the things that we saw in the past, which the White House said that they didn't have anything to do with.
But of course, there was a story, last month, about one of the museums erasing mentions that President Trump was impeached, before then restoring it after the outcry. Or whether or not it would have immense revisions, deals -- dealing with things like slavery, or other issues that have kind of plagued this country, that people believe should be rightfully told in all of its description, because of just how heavy it is.
And I think the second part, when I've talked to one Democrat, they said that even if a Democrat were to win in 2028? I think if you're looking at some of the recent surveys, that's kind of a tall order. But even if they were to win in 2028? There has been so much changed in these first seven months that it'd be really difficult to just pull back everything that Donald Trump has done, making sure that these changes and these kind of incursions on cultural life could potentially be a mainstay.
COLLINS: Well, and also on the funding part. Fortune says that -- I think 60 percent of the Smithsonian's funding is federal funding. And so, that's another kind of leverage point that obviously the White House has felt pretty free to use.
WRIGHT: Yes, even though technically, I think in a lot of other situations like this, even though technically, the Smithsonians are kind of under the Congress, Donald Trump is using a lot of his leverage in these institutions.
I think you're going to continue to see him try to pull the levers, using some of that leverage of federal funding, using the leverage that he has in Congress, knowing that these Republicans aren't necessarily going to push back, and trying to basically continue to kind of bend all of these institutions that have been around for a long time to as well.
COLLINS: How did historians that you talked to, Meridith, feel about this?
MCGRAW: Well, one of the things that came up was, you know, American history, there's the good, the bad and the ugly.
And one of the things that is in this letter, that the White House sent to the Smithsonian, is that the President really wants there to be a positive light that American history is put in.
And what these historians said is part of their job is to present all of the facts, and to show the public some of the uglier sides, in addition to all the things that we should, and can, celebrate as Americans.
COLLINS: Yes.
Meridith McGraw, excellent scoop.
Jasmine Wright, great to have you here as well.
Up next for us. We're going to give you an update on that deadly shooting that happened outside the CDC in Atlanta. What we're hearing tonight from the HHS Secretary, RFK Jr., about the shooter's motive, and why it seems to contradict what we're hearing from investigators tonight.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Before we go tonight, three things you may have missed.
Investigators in Georgia revealed that the gunman in Friday's shooting, at the CDC headquarters, had fired nearly 500 rounds. Close to 200 of them actually struck the agency's building, in that frantic scene that we all watched play out last week. As officials say, that Patrick Joseph White may have targeted the CDC over health concerns that he blamed on the COVID-19 vaccine.
But in a new interview, the Health and Human Services Secretary, RFK Jr., appeared to contradict what law enforcement has said on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We don't know enough about what the motive was of this individual. But people can ask questions without -- without being penalized.
What I'm trying to do at the agency is return it to gold-standard science.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Also tonight, sources tell CNN that Texas Democratic lawmakers are weighing whether to return to the state and end that fierce redistricting standoff that's playing out. As Texas Republicans are fighting to push through a new congressional map, in the middle of the decade, that could net their party five more House seats.
Two people inside the Democrats' meeting told CNN, no final decision had been made, but that there was a lot of debate as to how much more can be accomplished by prolonging their self-imposed exile from the state.
And finally, tonight, Trump's UFC match at the White House seems to be a done deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DANA WHITE, CEO AND PRESIDENT, ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP: It is definitely going to happen. I talked to him last night. Him being the President.
July 4th, 250th birthday of the United States of America, live on CBS from the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: UFC -- UFC's CEO, Dana White, today pushed along with President Trump's plans, for 20,000 spectators to watch the fight, on the grounds of the White House, during a celebration for America's 250th birthday, next year. We'll continue to track that.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
[22:00:00]
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight, squash, wince, repeat.
