Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Putin Praises Trump's "Energetic And Sincere" Push For Peace; Newsom Launches California Redistricting Push To Counter Texas; Hours Away: Trump & Putin Hold High-Stakes Summit In Alaska. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 14, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): --Gillon says Kennedy spoke of what might have been, embracing his family roots, and a life in politics.
STEVE GILLON, FRIEND & JFK JR. BIOGRAPHER: He said what people need is hope, they need to know that tomorrow is going to be better than today. And he -- there was this long pause, and he looked at me, and he said, I can do that, I think I can do that.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Elizabeth Wagmeister. CNN. Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Well, the CNN Original Series, "American Prince: JFK Jr." airs Saturday night, 09:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, on CNN.
That's it for us. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: We are coming to you live, from Anchorage, Alaska, where the air is thick with anticipation, given just hours from now, Presidents Trump and Presidents -- Putin -- President Putin will come face-to-face on American soil.
Ahead of that meeting, the American president has been projecting confidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think President Putin will make peace. I think President Zelenskyy will make peace. We'll see if they can get along. And if they can, it will be great. You know, I've solved six wars in the last six months, little more than six months now, and I'm very proud of it. I thought the easiest one would be this one. It's actually the most difficult.
President Putin would like to see a deal. I think if I weren't president, he would take over all of Ukraine.
But I am President, and he's not going to mess around with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President declaring himself The X Factor in negotiations with Putin, who has stood his ground on Ukraine for years, if not longer, on this issue.
Trump even went as far as to put a percentage on his chances of success or failure, here in Anchorage, while hinting that there could be some surprises in store.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS RADIO HOST, THE BRIAN KILMEADE SHOW: Is there any scenario where Donald Trump will look at this meeting in Alaska and say, This was not worth it, I failed?
TRUMP: Yes, 25 percent.
This meeting sets up the second meeting. The second meeting is going to be very, very important, because that's going to be a meeting where they make a deal.
KILMEADE: Yes.
TRUMP: And I don't want to use the word divvy things up, but you know, to a certain extent, it's not a bad term, OK? But there will be a give and take as to boundaries, land, et cetera, et cetera.
I would say that tomorrow, all I want to do is set the table for the next meeting, which should happen shortly. I'd like to see it happen very quickly, very shortly, after this meeting.
We're going to have a meeting with President Putin, President Zelenskyy, myself, and maybe we'll bring some of the European leaders along, maybe not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Right now, based on what we know, Trump is scheduled to hold a joint press conference with Putin tomorrow. But if talks head south, the President also suggested he may just do a solo news conference, without Putin there next to him, and then depart here in Alaska. Whether or not they appear alone or together, could be an indication of how Trump himself believes this meeting tomorrow is going to go.
Zelenskyy, for his part, was in London today, huddling with the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, at 10 Downing Street. It's a meeting that follows a call with Trump, yesterday, with Zelenskyy, Trump and European leaders, where he assured the Ukrainian president, and European allies, that any negotiations about swapping territory would involve Ukraine, and would begin only with a ceasefire.
In the meantime, from Moscow, Putin has been laying it on pretty thick ahead of tomorrow's summit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): The current American administration, which, as everyone knows, is making, in my opinion, quite energetic and sincere efforts to stop the hostilities, stop the crisis, and reach agreements that are of interest to all parties involved in this conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight, here in Anchorage, is CNN's Chief Global Affairs Correspondent, Matthew Chance.
And obviously Matthew, as we're waiting on both of these leaders to come, I should note, we're seeing Russian government planes land here in Anchorage, obviously getting ahead of -- getting ready for tomorrow.
Hearing Putin though, someone who knows Trump likes flattery and praise, talking about his energetic efforts here, what does that tell you about how they're -- how they're preparing to show up tomorrow?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look, Putin is an accomplished manipulator, and he's got lots of experience with President Trump, and he's going to be bringing his game, tomorrow, at this summit. And if there's a joint news conference, we'll see that chemistry sort of play out between them.
But remember, it's really important for the Russians to move away from this narrow focus on Ukraine, and to talk about a broader range of issues in the bilateral relationship, talking about gas and oil exploration, space exploration, you name it, it's all sorts of areas they can cooperate in.
[21:05:00]
And earlier, I spoke to Kirill Dmitriev, who is the -- Kremlin's top dealmaker, basically. It's very telling that he's part of this delegation. And I put it to him that all these issues that he constantly talks about are just a way of the Kremlin drawing President Trump away from the issue of Ukraine.
Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRILL DMITRIEV, CEO, RUSSIAN DIRECT INVESTMENT FUND, KREMLIN NEGOTIATOR: I think let's wait for the discussions to happen. I think there is general discussion about Arctic and many other possibilities. But again, Ukraine is the main focus. Our political leaders, our diplomats, will be at the front stage, and then we'll see, even if we get to economic questions or not.
CHANCE: But do you think it's even possible for there to be progress on economic questions, you know? If the question of Ukraine remains unanswered, do you accept that, that there will be no economic cooperation unless Ukraine is answered? DMITRIEV: Yes, I think we understand that unless there is major progress on Ukraine and diplomatic efforts succeed, then economic cooperation will take a while to be relaunched.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: There's an interesting -- interesting point there, Kaitlan (ph), because it's really one of the first times that I've heard the Kremlin basically acknowledge that if they want this broader relationship, between the United States and Russia, they're going to have to tackle the Ukraine question and not leave it unanswered. Quite interesting.
COLLINS: You said it's telling that he's in the delegation. Why? What does that tell you about what they want for tomorrow?
CHANCE: Well, because the focus from President Trump, if you hear what he's saying, he's saying, It's very much on Ukraine. It's to decide whether or not there's going to be any compromise for Putin on the Ukrainian issue.
But the Russians, they've got this much broader agenda. They want to talk about the Arctic. They want to talk about space exploration. They want to talk about economic cooperation. In other ways, they want the sanctions lifted as well on Russia. They don't want to just keep it to that sort of narrow focus on Ukraine. They want to broaden it out.
I get the impression, there's a slightly different emphasis from the White House, from the Trump administration. But we'll see what actually unfolds during the summit.
COLLINS: We see a lot of world leaders, who come and meet with Trump, who are not engaged in a war that Trump is trying to broker a ceasefire in, bring gifts, or a Nobel Peace Prize recommendation, or a letter from King Charles.
Is there something that Putin could bring, some kind of bright, shiny object, where they think--
CHANCE: Gosh.
COLLINS: --that it's something that would appeal to him?
CHANCE: I don't know. I think there's a -- I mean, it's a good question, because it's another one of the reasons why Kirill Dmitriev may be here. I mean, look, I think they've looked at the previous kind of deals that Trump's done with other world leaders, and there's always an economic aspect to it, you know? And so, I think they come bearing the possibility of lucrative contracts, in whatever area they feel that Trump may be attracted to.
In terms of gifts in the other direction? There's already been a massive gift, bestowed by the White House, on Putin.
COLLINS: Yes. CHANCE: The appearance, the summit itself, means that Trump -- sorry -- that Putin is able to say, Here I am, back on the international stage, after years of isolation.
COLLINS: Yes, and if I remember correctly, President Biden brought President Putin a set of -- a pair of Ray-Bans.
CHANCE: Yes.
COLLINS: Of course, that was before Putin had invaded Ukraine.
Matthew Chance, great reporting, thank you for that.
Also here tonight is the former U.S. Ambassador to NATO. Kurt Volker is joining us now. And he was also, I should note, the Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations in Trump's first term, and also testified as part of that first House impeachment trial.
So obviously, a lot of context here, Ambassador. And just as someone who has been involved in these negotiations, between Russia and Ukraine, when it comes to Crimea, what are you expecting to come tomorrow? What are you going to be watching for?
AMB. KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL REP. FOR UKRAINE NEGOTIATIONS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, CENTER FOR EUROPEAN POLICY ANALYSIS: Well, to be honest, I'm not expecting very much.
I think that Putin has made clear, over the past couple weeks, he's not giving an inch. In fact, he's demanding several more square miles of Ukraine. He's not only saying that the frontline stays where it is, but he wants Ukraine to withdraw from parts of Luhansk and parts of Donetsk provinces that Russia doesn't even occupy. So, this is escalating his demands, and that's clear that he's not going to agree to anything at this summit.
I think your question, earlier, about, is there some bright, shiny object that he can bring to distract the conversation? That's the right question, because that is what Putin will try to do.
I do think Trump needs to stay focused on Ukraine. But I think what Trump will do is just try to focus on the next meeting. He knows he's not going to get anything out of this. He knows he can't give away Ukrainian territory on his own. It's got to be Ukraine that agrees with Russia. So, he just wants to get that Putin-Zelenskyy meeting that he can be the host of, and I think that's what he'll focus on.
And my guess is that Putin will give him a little bit of hope there. He'll say, Yes, we can do that, but the right conditions have to be met, and those conditions aren't met today. And then, this is just going to drift into next week and the week after again.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: So, do you think Putin is trying to just buy time here, basically? VOLKER: Yes, I think Putin wants to play out his offensive that he's carrying out right now. He wants to test whether President Trump is serious about any economic pressure, or military pressure, on Russia. He doesn't think he is. So, he wants to test that.
And he wants to see whether oil prices stay low, and it puts some pressure on his state budget, or maybe he can do something else. He can find another way of financing this war. So, he's not in a hurry to make any decisions for a ceasefire now.
COLLINS: What would it take, do you think, to get Trump -- or to get Putin, to go and meet with Zelenskyy. Because, to your point, a second ago, Trump had raised this idea, in the Oval Office, earlier, that it could -- it could follow quite quickly. He even said, potentially Alaska. That's not really clear that that could happen. But what would it take to get Putin to say yes, to a meeting with Zelenskyy, do you think?
VOLKER: Well, what it will take, in reality, is for Putin to feel that his state finances are in such bad shape that the State of Russia is at risk, or that his rule in Russia is at risk. And then he would say, OK, let's now stop this for a while. Until he feels that kind of pressure, he's going to think that he has the upper hand, and he can still gain this.
COLLINS: What would you be watching for, if you were in your previous job, in this this one-on-one meeting, that we're told is going to happen, at the beginning of this summit. Likely just translators in the room, which Trump has done before, I should note, with Putin on two occasions, I believe.
VOLKER: Yes.
COLLINS: What would you be watching for, if you were advising Trump going into that one-on-one?
VOLKER: Well, so first off, I don't think there's anything wrong with the two leaders getting together with just translators. This gives both of them a freedom to communicate that can explore, Are there things we can do that are difficult to talk about publicly? So, I understand that. I don't -- I don't fault them for that.
However, to your question, What would I warn President Trump about? There are a lot of things that Putin knows, in detail, about what's going on in Ukraine that you don't know, and he's going to try to trap you into saying something that he'll try to hold you to, which is not what you meant. And so, be very careful about what you agree to. Just listen.
And the one point that I think Putin will really drill in on is recognition of Russian territory. Russia has occupied now, 20 percent of Ukraine, for some time. It is one thing to accept that, OK, we're going to stop the fighting. A ceasefire. No one's going to change this now militarily. And it's another thing to say that, We recognize this as legitimately Russian territory. The first part? We can do, we can have a ceasefire. But the second part, of recognizing this result of Russian aggression against Ukraine? We should never do that.
COLLINS: When it comes to what we'll be seeing tomorrow. I think everyone expects it to look like Helsinki, and that notorious press conference that Trump had with Putin.
There are some questions, I think, going into this, of how Trump has handled this, going up to it. He's spoken with European leaders. He had Zelenskyy on the phone. He said he's going to call Zelenskyy as soon as the meeting is done, as he's -- as he's departing.
Do you believe that -- what are your -- do you think maybe that Putin is misreading how Trump is going into this meeting, in terms of the frustration we've even seen from him, for Putin--
VOLKER: Well--
COLLINS: --and how he's handled this?
VOLKER: Yes, well, first off, is Putin misreading Trump? I don't think so. I think he sees that Trump wants an end to the war. He's willing to push a lot. He's willing to try to do a lot to get that, because he really wants to see an end to the war.
However, he isn't going to hand away Ukrainian territory. It's not in his gift to do that. He's not going to pressure Zelenskyy into some unsustainable deal. And I think Putin knows all of that. I think Putin doesn't have any unrealistic expectations.
What Putin's goal is, is to drag this out. He wants to have this meeting, start expanding the dialog into all these other issues that they can talk about as well, see whether he can spark Trump's interest in something else, like raw -- you know, rare earth minerals or something, and keep this going and divert the attention away from Russia's war against Ukraine.
[21:15:00]
And I just want to point out, President Putin's comment that the U.S. -- that President Trump is engaged in an energetic and sincere effort to end the war. That is an incredibly condescending and cynical thing to say. Because the only reason there is a war is because Putin himself is waging this war against Ukraine, and he could stop it with a snap of his fingers. So, to say that President Trump is now engaged in a sincere effort? That is really only code word for saying he wants to get Trump to cause Ukraine to surrender.
COLLINS: Huh? Insightful analysis there. Ambassador Kurt Volker, it's great to hear from you on this. Thank you for joining tonight.
And also here, on the ground with me, in Anchorage, is David Sanger, who is the White House and National Security Correspondent for The New York Times.
And obviously, David, we've been watching this so closely, going into tomorrow. One thing that has stood out to me about hearing from Trump is, obviously, he fashions himself as a dealmaker's dealmaker. What does it say to you that he's been lowering expectations for tomorrow's summit?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE & NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "NEW COLD WARS": Well, he's got to be worried that he's going to come away with very little. And in fact, if he comes away from here without a ceasefire, or at least a firm date when there would be? It's going to be hard to make the case that he's actually accomplished a whole lot here. And I think you heard that from Ambassador Volker.
There are very few incentives, at this moment, for Putin to make a deal, at a moment when the Russians are doing well on the battlefield. And they hadn't been for some time. And yet, President Trump really wants this, and it's very possible that Putin believes that Zelenskyy thinks he needs it before he loses more territory.
And so, I thought what was really interesting today, Kaitlan, when Putin raised the possibility that he would emerge from this, or begin to propose a larger nuclear deal? Remember the New START Treaty, the last treaty between the United States and Russia, limiting the number of our nuclear weapons pointed at each other, expires in February.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANGER: And there's been no work really done, to try to figure out how you'd replace it, and you're not -- the treaty does not allow for it to be extended. So, they would have to come up with some new kind of structure. And I think Putin may very well say, Eh, Ukraine, it's one small issue. Here's a big issue that's directly relevant to the safety of Americans.
COLLINS: But Trump doesn't see Ukraine as a small issue. I mean, he tries to say, It's not my war, I didn't start this. But he does want to bring an end to it, if--
SANGER: He does.
COLLINS: --if he benefits just in search of a Nobel Peace Prize, which obviously has been something he sought.
Today, he said something, though, that stood out to me about Putin's view of getting a deal, compared to what he also said six months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I believe now he's convinced that he's going to make a deal. He's going to make a deal.
KILMEADE: Right.
TRUMP: I think he's going to, and we're going to find out. I'm going to know very quickly.
I believe he wants peace. I believe that President Putin, when I spoke to him yesterday, I mean. I know him very well. Yes, I think he wants peace. I think he would tell me if he didn't.
REPORTER: Do you trust him?
TRUMP: I think it -- I'd like to see peace.
REPORTER: Do you trust President Putin?
TRUMP: I believe that, yes, I believe that he would like to see something happen. I trust him on this subject.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Why do you think he still thinks he wants a deal, even though, in six months, Putin has given no indication he does?
SANGER: Putin has been incredibly consistent here. It's President Trump who has been inconsistent, right?
At the beginning of the administration, he did everything he could to lure Putin in. He said, Ukraine will never join NATO. He said that maybe it was the United States, and its NATO allies, who were somewhat responsible for the invasion by expanding NATO around Russia.
Then he went into a phase, about a month, month and a half ago, where he was criticizing Putin for holding nice conversations with him and then bombing Ukrainian civilians at night.
And I think Putin has sort of picked up on this, and said, Trump wants a deal, but he doesn't really have a firm thought about what the larger relationship is.
So, I think he'll try, tomorrow, to distract him with those business deals you discussed with Ambassador Volker, maybe with the nuclear proposal I just mentioned. He'll do anything he can to diminish Ukraine in the course of the conversation.
COLLINS: David Sanger, we'll be watching closely and reading your reporting on this as well. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
SANGER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next, as we are looking here on the ground, in Anchorage, the reality on the ground in Ukraine, as Presidents Trump and Presidents -- Putin -- and President Putin prepare to meet face- to-face, what Ukrainians hope is not forgotten in pursuit of a deal.
My source tonight is the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Admiral James Stavridis, right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Welcome back to Anchorage, Alaska tonight, where all eyes will be watching President Trump's major summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, as it happens here tomorrow, and a possible deal to bring an end to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, as it could hinge on Putin's strategy when it comes to holding on to occupied Ukrainian territory at all costs.
[21:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Any peace deal in Ukraine is going to ultimately be about land.
And when President Trump talks about swapping territories, this is Russian-occupied areas, but it's these three parts here, black- surrounded, that have always been part of Russian President Vladimir Putin's most maximalist war goals. It's what he wants.
The lines we've drawn as best as we can here, but the stakes are incredibly high. Any minor inaccuracy of my pen could be a place that thousands of people have fought and died for, or still live.
Now, in just recent days, there's been a tiny advance here by the Russians, but it's significant, and caused some concern and even denials and reinforcements sent from Kyiv.
But this Donetsk area is potentially, if we understand what the Kremlin's proposed, somewhere, they want Ukrainians to withdraw from entirely, in exchange for a ceasefire. And look at it. It's a huge area. What could they give back? These tiny border parts, occupied by Russia, a buffer zone President Putin calls it, but it's hardly a fair exchange.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is CNN Senior Military Analyst, Admiral James Stavridis, who is the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, and also a partner at The Carlyle Group, which is a global investment firm.
And it's so great to have you here tonight, sir.
Because I do think that map that Nick Paton Walsh was just laying out, that is so key, and his point there about a small but significant advance that the Russians have been taking in Ukraine, in recent days.
I saw Zelenskyy said earlier, he thinks that's just them trying to set the table to convince President Trump tomorrow, Look, Russia does have the upper hand. That is why we should try to strike an agreement here now, when it comes to that territory.
What do you make of what the landscape looks like, going into tomorrow?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST, BOARD MEMBER FOR ANKURA, FORTINET, AON, CONSULTS FOR BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGIES: Kaitlan, I'd go back three years ago, when Vladimir Putin told all of us that he was going to run the table and conquer all of Ukraine in three or four days. He said he was going to take Kyiv by the end of a week. His objective all along has been to conquer this entire vast country, an enormous land space in Europe, the largest continental country in Europe. Where is he at, well, after three (ph) years, million casualties, cratering his economy, overall, isolating himself, diplomatically, he's managed to conquer 18 percent. I would hardly call that a win.
And yes, he has, in the last few weeks, carved out a few more square miles of this vast country. I don't think it's a big military success for him, nor do I think he is going into this with a particularly strong hand of cards.
So, I hope, and I kind of think, President Trump will go into this negotiation and say, You know, Vladimir, I've got a deal for you. You keep about (ph) 20 percent of the country, that's kind of the best you're going to do. And let's get this thing stopped. Let's have a ceasefire. Let's get to the negotiating table.
If I were advising President Putin? Which I assure you, I'm not. I'm sanctioned by the Kremlin, as you probably know, Kaitlan. I would tell Putin, Take the deal. Because if he really angers President Trump, and we continue to play cards against Putin, it's Putin who's going to have a problem here, not Zelenskyy, not the United States.
COLLINS: Yes, I do remember that you have been sanctioned by the Kremlin.
When it comes though, to -- you're making the rational argument, saying, This is why Putin should take that. That would be your advice to him.
But, I reread today, on the flight here to Anchorage, the 7,000-word essay that Putin wrote in 2021 of why, basically, Ukraine doesn't exist as its own independent country, that it is still Russia. And, I mean, his designs on it have not changed based on anything that he has indicated publicly.
So do you expect that he is coming to the table, tomorrow, as a willing participant in a negotiation? Or is he just coming to buy more time?
STAVRIDIS: Well, the latter. He is going to play rope-a-dope with President Trump. I hope President Trump doesn't permit him to do that.
[21:30:00]
I've read that same essay, Kaitlan. And you know what? I think it's a rationalization. The reason Putin wants Ukraine isn't some mystic vision of Russian nationalism. The reason Putin wants Ukraine is the good old-fashioned reason. Resources. He wants the oil, the gas, the agrarian products. Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe. And above all, he once controlled the 40 million Ukrainians. He wants to conquer it in the same way the Roman Empire wanted to conquer Gaul. And that is something we need to prevent.
Now, having said all that, are we at a point where we should have an open conversation about trading land for peace, 20 percent to Putin, 80 percent sales on free and democratic? I would say yes, those are decisions for Ukrainians, not for Americans. But I think at this stage in the war, that would make a lot of sense, for the Ukrainians to have an open mind to that deal, if backed up by the United States. That's what I'm hearing from President Trump.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a key if, there, of course.
Admiral, always great to have your expertise. Thank you so much for joining us tonight here.
And up next for us here on THE SOURCE. We heard from California governor, Gavin Newsom today, making his most significant push yet when it comes to redrawing his state's congressional maps, in response to Texas redrawing theirs. What he said in response to Texas and President Trump today?
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the Governor of California, Gavin Newsom, is officially moving forward with his push to redraw his state's congressional maps, in response to Republican efforts to do so in Texas.
Speaking, in Downtown Los Angeles today, we heard from Governor Newsom, directly calling out President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Donald Trump, you have poked the bear, and we will punch back.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
NEWSOM: We have got to meet fire with fire.
It's not complicated. We're doing this in reaction to a president of the United States that called a sitting governor of the State of Texas, and said, Find me five seats.
They want to rig these elections, and they want the power that gerrymandering provides, because they know what Donald Trump knows. He's going to lose the midterms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK, but this power play that we're seeing now happen in the Golden State, it's a bit more complicated than what's going on in Texas, where some Democrats have been signaling that they are ready to actually end their standoff over redistricting.
The reasons it's more complicated is because an independent commission oversees California's maps, something that Governor Newsom once backed, and the Governor will now need state lawmakers to approve a constitutional amendment, so that can be put up to voters, come November.
My source tonight is the former Congresswoman, Katie Porter, who is also running to succeed Newsom as the governor of California.
And it's great to have you here.
When it comes to this effort that you see here, given the extra hurdle here that Governor Newsom wants to go through, to get this, do you think that effort is ultimately going to be successful in your home state?
KATIE PORTER, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (D-CA), (D) CALIFORNIA GOV. CANDIDATE: Americans are seeing Donald Trump for who he really is, and they are seeing the consequences of his reckless tariffs, his deployment of the military in our communities, his mass immigration raids.
And this next election in 2026, for the House of Representatives, is our chance to stand up and be a check on Donald Trump. If that election is unfair, if that election goes the way that Texas is trying to manipulate it to go? Trump will be able to seize total power for two more years. So, California is standing up and pushing back, trying to make sure that Americans are able to be a check on Donald Trump.
COLLINS: But do you support this effort, and do you think it will be successful in California?
PORTER: Californians are going to have the chance to make this decision for themselves. What the Governor is doing here is putting forth a proposal. We are doing this very differently in California than what Texas is doing. We're doing it in a democratic way.
We are going to allow the voters of California to make this decision for themselves. It's going to go to the people, and be on our ballot in November. This is a huge contrast to what's happening in Texas, where its gerrymandered State Legislature is trying to even -- do even more gerrymandering of their congressional seats. So, I think this is up to the people of California.
But I will tell you, when I campaign as governor, people are concerned about Trump's tariffs. They are concerned about his approach to immigration. They are concerned about his deployment of the military. And they want to take action. And we're going to give them the opportunity to do that in November, on the ballot, through a democratic process.
COLLINS: Will you be voting yes, on it?
PORTER: Yes, I will, absolutely. Look, I understand the importance of an independent redistricting commission. And that's why California's proposal, what Governor Newsom is doing here. We will automatically revert deleting the nation having a democratic process by having our independent redistricting commission snap back into action in a few years.
But we are in unprecedented times. So, I absolutely think we have to be willing to take unprecedented action. Our democracy is at risk, and what we're doing here in California is using our democracy to fight back.
COLLINS: Yes, we've heard other Democrats justify it, saying, We're doing it because Republicans are doing it, and we need the, basically, the playing field to be even.
[21:40:00]
For you, though, it's especially notable to hear your support, because you have previously supported the For the People Act, which would have banned partisan gerrymandering, and also doing so in the middle of a decade, which is incredibly unusual.
I think some people might look at that, and say, Well, if you believe that independent redistricting is the right thing, why change that now, simply to fight Trump?
PORTER: So, I think independent redistricting is the best approach to drawing these districts. But look, I don't see any independent redistricting happening in Texas, and in so many other states. They are taking an unprecedented action here, this extreme effort to redraw their congressional districts, mid-decade, in an unprecedented way.
California, part of being a democracy -- part of why democracy is the best form of government is that you can react. People can take action. When they see something happening that they object to, that they find immoral, that they find wrong, like Donald Trump's effort to seize total power and shut down the 2026 congressional election from being fair? It is absolutely appropriate, for the people of California, to say, In this moment, we want to--
COLLINS: Yes.
PORTER: --for this short period, we want to do it differently.
COLLINS: But for you personally, given your previous stance, is it something you wrestled with, changing that stance to support it, even if it is just for a short time, as you put it there?
PORTER: Not at all. I still believe that independent redistricting is the best approach possible.
But Kaitlan, we are so far in America today, from living in the best possible situation for our democracy. In fact, our democracy has never been under worse attacks. These tariffs, the deployment of the military in peaceful cities, the immigration raids that we're seeing, the attacks on the rule of law, Trump self-dealing. These are not ideal democratic times. These are -- these are attacks on our democracy.
So, we have to be willing to use our own democratic processes, like putting this on the ballot, in November, to think about how to adjust our democracy to meet the moment. And we've done this throughout history. We have made changes to our democracy, to try to let it address what is going on in our country, what challenges we are facing, and what dangers we are facing.
COLLINS: Yes, and of course, I should note, as this is a fight that is centered on what's happening in Texas. We saw former President Obama himself getting involved today, speaking with House Democrats there, amid questions about what that's going to look like. We'll see how this fight continues.
Former Congresswoman, Katie Porter, now gubernatorial candidate, thank you for joining us tonight.
PORTER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. The White House and the Kremlin both preparing for what could be a defining moment in global diplomacy. We're going to take a look, up next, at what the relationship between the two countries, but also these two men who are leading them, has looked like, and what tomorrow could look like.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Putin said Trump is brilliant.
Now I don't know if he means it, if he doesn't mean it. I don't care. I like it, OK?
I like Putin.
Now, Putin called me a genius, by the way.
I think I'd have a good relationship with Putin.
Great relationship with Putin.
I hope he likes me.
We've had some very, very good talks.
REPORTER: Is Vladimir Putin a friend or foe?
TRUMP: I really can't say right now.
President Putin is sharp.
As sharp as you can be.
Putin, fierce, is smart.
COLLINS: When you were in office, you said that you respected President Putin. TRUMP: Yes, I do.
COLLINS: Do you still respect him today?
TRUMP: He made a tremendous mistake. Made that -- he made -- he's a smart guy, you know?
They say, You got along with Putin, that's a terrible thing. I said, No, no, that's a good thing.
I don't like what Putin is doing. Not even a little bit. He's killing people.
Putin has been more difficult.
I'm not happy with Putin. We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin.
I'm disappointed in President Putin.
Very disappointed with President Putin.
President Putin, I believe, wants to see peace.
I think President Putin will make peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It is a nearly decade-long relationship that has gone from flattery and fawning to one -- more recently, of times of frustration. But now, President Trump appears cautiously optimistic about his ability to negotiate, with the Russian president, here in Anchorage, tomorrow. That's a key question we will be watching.
My source tonight on this front, Amos Hochstein, a veteran diplomat and State Department energy envoy under President Biden.
And it's great to have you here.
Because, I do think one key question going into tomorrow is, who do you believe, as someone who's been in high-level negotiations, who do you think has the upper hand here, tomorrow?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN, FORMER BIDEN WH SENIOR ADVISER ON ENERGY, MANAGING PARTNER, TWG GLOBAL, FORMER DEPUTY ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE UNDER OBAMA: Well, first, Kaitlan, thanks for having me.
This is a remarkable moment. The upper hand for sure, is President Putin, who has wanted nothing more than to come back into the fold of international relations, and to be greeted back into acceptance by the -- by the world that has shunned him, ever since he invaded Ukraine.
And so, the mere fact that he is having a meeting with the President of the United States, in the United States, is a remarkable moment for Putin. And so, he's coming in with a -- with a lot of wind in his sails. [21:50:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and you look back. Obviously, he is someone who has dealt with Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, now Donald Trump again.
We actually went back and found one of the first times that Trump ever mentioned Putin publicly. It was on CNN, actually, with Larry King, back in 2007.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look at Putin, what he's doing with -- I mean, you know what's going on over there. I mean, this guy has done, whether you like him or don't like him, he's doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia, and also rebuilding Russia. Period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's kind of remarkable to look back at that and think about how many different U.S. leaders, Putin has dealt with, and a lot of them have gone into it, thinking they could change the relationship with him, and then not been successful at that.
HOCHSTEIN: That's exactly right. As you said, the very tail end of President Clinton, and ever since he's been in power, even though he had a few years where he officially was the number two to Medvedev, but in reality, he was controlling the scene.
Look, every President, as you said, Kaitlan, comes in and says, I'm going to -- I'm going to figure him out, I'm going to do the reset, I'm going to understand how to deal with him.
And the reality is that Putin seems to be able to succeed. And part of that is, look, he invaded Ukraine for the same reason he invaded Georgia. He has been wanting to restore the old Soviet sphere of influence around the world and to bring Russia into a power. And he has failed miserably.
He invaded Ukraine, which was seen as a -- I can tell you from my time at the White House, during the -- early in the Biden administration. The common thinking in the White House, the intelligence community, the military, and around the world, was, If he does do the invasion, he'll be marching down Kyiv within four to seven days.
And instead, it's been two and a half years, where he is now still bogged down in this -- in this war, and he's not been able -- and achieving very little, over the last two years, 3 -- 5 percent of territory gains, fought very hard, over the last couple of years. So, he's really done very poorly. And so, I think this could be now a little bit of a saving moment for Putin, if he's able to do this.
But I don't know -- the big question for tomorrow is, who comes in with a deal? Is it Putin coming in and saying, Here's, I'm dictating the terms. Either deal that complicates things and divides and he tries to divide the allies? Or does Trump come in and say, Hey, this is what -- this is what I can bear. This is what reality can bear. This is what I can get Zelenskyy to agree to.
And so, there's a moment of opportunity here. We should all be for successful meeting that results in a ceasefire with dignity of some kind for Ukraine and fairness.
COLLINS: Yes.
HOCHSTEIN: But I'm not quite sure that we'll be there.
COLLINS: But can I ask you on that front, because I want to know -- we were just handed this. The top diplomat for Russia, Sergey Lavrov, has just touched down here in Alaska. That's ahead of that meeting.
The other part of this is, yes, Putin has dealt with so many of these similar leaders. But you look back, and Sergey Lavrov's right there with him, I mean, so many of these people who are around him that have just kind of cycled through U.S. presidents, while largely remaining in power in Russia.
HOCHSTEIN: Well, look, Kaitlan, that's the difference between authoritarian regimes and single-man leaders, versus the West, and other democracies around the world, where they get to have the stability in the long-term, versus what the United States. But that's not an advantage. I think that also leads to really stale thinking.
And again, you look at where Russia is today compared to where they -- where they were when Trump said they were doing a great job. They're not well off at all.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point there of how it may not work in their favor.
Amos Hochstein, great to have you as always. Thank you for being here.
And I should note, it is not Friday yet. Typically, if you are a fan of THE SOURCE, you know that we have our behind-the-scenes looks at what have happened -- what's happened that week. On the eve though of this high-stakes summit, we're going to take you and show you what it was like at the White House, this week, leading up to this moment.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We usually show you our behind-the-scenes from the week at the White House, on Friday nights. But given tomorrow's high-stakes summit here, in Anchorage, here's a look at the days leading up to this summit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm announcing a historic action to rescue our nation's capital from crime, bloodshed, bedlam, and squalor.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, August 11.
TRUMP: This is Liberation Day in D.C.
And we're placing the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department under direct federal control.
I'm deploying the National Guard to help reestablish law, order and public safety.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, August 12.
COLLINS: Does the President plan to meet with Putin one-on-one?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, that's part of the plan.
COLLINS: And on what's happening in D.C. with the federal takeover, who is in charge of the MPD right now?
LEAVITT: The chain of command is as such. The President of the United States, the Attorney General of the United States, our DEA Administrator, Terry Cole.
COLLINS: How are you splitting your duties as DEA Administrator and head of the MPD?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: This sit-down between Trump and Putin, this is going to be one of the most closely-watched meetings that President Trump has of his second term. What exactly they discuss is going to be critical here.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, August 13.
TRUMP: If the first one goes OK, we'll have a quick second meeting, between President Putin, and President Zelenskyy, and myself if they'd like to have me there.
COLLINS: President Trump had an hours-long phone call with European leaders and Ukrainian president Zelenskyy, ahead of his major sit-down with President Putin.
He came out of that call, warning about severe consequences if Putin doesn't agree to end his war. But he didn't say exactly what those consequences would be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
