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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Two Children Killed, 14 Children & Three Adults Hurt In Shooting; FBI Investigates Shooting As Domestic Terrorism, Hate Crime; CDC Left Leaderless After New Director Is Ousted And Other Key Officials Follow. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 27, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --to not be able to put a name to the person that we were seeing, was one of the things that always struck me as particularly painful.

PASTOR JERRY DARBY, UNCLE DIED IN HURRICANE KATRINA, ST. JOSEPH FREEWILL (ph) BAPTIST CHURCH: Yes.

COOPER: And so, to be able to finally put a name to your uncle is--

DARBY: Yes.

COOPER: Yes. It's, for me, powerful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That was 10 years ago that I met Pastor Darby. We spoke to him again recently. He said, they still think about his uncle, Jerry Peters, all the time. His family church has now moved to Uptown in New Orleans.

That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: 8-years-old and 10-years-old, two young lives that were stolen, after their school year began with gunfire, murdered as they sat in a church pew, next to their friends and their classmates, described by their principal today, this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT DEBOER, PRINCIPAL, ANNUNCIATION CATHOLIC SCHOOL: We lost two angels today. And please continue to pray for those still receiving care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Gratefully, those other children that he mentioned there, who were also injured today, 14 kids, as young as 6-years-old and only as old as 15, are all expected to survive tonight. So are the three adults, all in their 80s, who were also hurt.

Annunciation Catholic School has stood in South Minneapolis, for more than a century. Inside this church, during the first week of the school year, the entire school, ranging from pre-K to eighth grade, gathered for Mass, and ended up experiencing a mass shooting.

The shooter attempted to block the doors, firing at the children, sitting in the pews, through these stained glass windows, now shattered tonight by gunfire. As the pews themselves, typically a gathering place for those in search of spiritual salvation, turned into literal shields against a barrage of bullets.

We'll get to the shooter who carried out this heinous attack, and the investigation, shortly tonight. But as much as that person, dead, this evening, from a self-inflicted wound, may have wanted to be the story, and was seemingly fascinated by it. I first want to listen to those who should be our focus, the children and their parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERS HOLINE, PARENT: And I just, you know, selfishly, was just like, Where are my girls? Where is June (ph) and Olive (ph)? That's all I could think about. And I couldn't find them. And it was, it was awful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you find them?

HOLINE: I -- the principal was standing center of the sanctuary, and I ran up there, and I said what -- is June (ph) and Olive (ph) here? And he goes, I don't know. And I said, Are they down? Because I could see a couple kids down, bloody. He said, they're not down. And so, that was my first sense of relief.

WESTON HALSNE, 5TH GRADER: Well, it was like, shots fired, and then he kind of like, got under the pews. It kind of, they shot through the stained glass windows, I think. And it was really scary.

My friend got hit in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he go to the hospital?

HALSNE: Yes, he went to the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What went through your mind when you saw that?

HALSNE: I was super-scared for him, but I think now he's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

HALSNE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you get reunited with your parents, and--

HALSNE: Yes, my mom was waiting outside of the church when it happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then you--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was it like seeing her?

HALSNE: I was super-happy because, like, I was scared that I wasn't going to see her, because I didn't know what was happening, really. I was just in shock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The young boy you heard from there is in the fifth grade. The theme for his school year, and for his classmates, at Annunciation, is hope. It comes from the book of Jeremiah, Chapter 29 and Verse 11, which says this: For I know full well the plans I have for you, plans for your welfare and not for your misfortune, plans that will offer you a future filled with hope.

And tonight, people are gathering for a vigil in that community, as this community is now looking to each other for that very hope. They do so in prayer, which, as the Mayor rightfully pointed out today, is what these kids were doing, this morning, when their lives changed forever, at about 08:30.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church. These are kids that should be learning with their friends. They should be playing on the playground. They should be able to go to school, or church, in peace, without the fear or risk of violence, and their parents should have the same kind of assurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: I want to start tonight with CNN's Laura Coates, who is live in Minneapolis, for us, this evening.

[21:05:00]

And Laura, you grew up there, in the Twin Cities, and I just, I can't imagine what it's like to be reporting from your hometown tonight. But I just -- now that you've been on the grounds, how's the community coping, and what are they saying tonight?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, it's truly surreal, Kaitlan. You know my children. You know I'm a mother of kids who are going to the sixth and the seventh grade.

And the thought that while kids at home are preparing school supplies, and excited to see their friends, and gather after a long summer, there should be school busses behind me, PTA meetings going strong. Instead, you have a marquee that's still welcoming students in, and police tape barricading an area with cop cars still there from the horrific tragedy that happened today. And you see around the community. It is otherwise eerily normal, in the sense of, the fact you've got a grocery store, you've got a restaurant, you've got stoplights and cars coming and going, all people are looking to see, Was this the site of this tragedy.

And there's communities right behind where the school is, and you've got neighbors who are gathering with their lawn chairs, sitting in community, talking about what has happened, neon poster board signs with the Sharpie markers that says, Family, with an arrow pointing to how they were trying to help communities, members, come and try to reunite with their children.

You heard from that young boy talk about the experience. These are kids who wear uniforms. I'm told that some saw their uniforms soaked in blood. You had elderly people who were there to help with coffee, who were crawling out, trying to get help from the community neighbors out here, hoping to get some relief.

And of course, you've got tonight, this overwhelming feeling that other schools in the area are set to start just next week, and I'm told that there are communities in the surrounding area that are already preparing for what their first days of school might look like in weeks to come. Will there be a police presence there to support them?

There were other Catholic schools in the community as well, that were on lockdown, waiting to get word of what was happening here, parents across the river in Saint Paul and beyond, wondering what would come from their children, as well as everyone wait hear news, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: And Laura, just -- just being there. And I think everyone sees this happen and thinks, That's not going to happen in my hometown--

COATES: Yes.

COLLINS: --or, That's not going to happen where my kids are going to school, or hoping that it doesn't.

COATES: Yes.

COLLINS: And today, when this was playing out, one of the neighbors was saying, you know, that they rushed in as soon as they heard what was happening, and some of them arrived on the scene even before some of the officers had, and just were witnessing these kids coming out, stunned by what had just happened--

COATES: Yes.

COLLINS: --at their Mass.

COATES: Yes, there was a feeling, I'm told, of people who were hearing the shots. I mean, we're not far from where the school is, and, of course, where they were actually holding Mass. And there are houses, all around the area, it would have been within earshot of people hearing it. And the heroism that we're hearing about people going in to try to help, and try to comfort, and try to soothe, and try to figure out, in real-time, what was going on. It was a surreal and unnerving and horrific scene that unfolded. And now tonight, the community members are still wondering how to come to terms with what's happened here.

The first home I ever bought is four minutes away from here, practically. I grew up about four or five miles away from here as well. The fact that we are here, so close to a neighborhood, so close to the downtown area and so many different communities. We are in the middle of a thriving, vibrant community, here in Minneapolis. And now it has turned to tragedy in so many ways.

There is hope, as you have said, by your eloquent open, talking about what the theme of this school was, and what the community is feeling tonight, knowing that there are children who are -- have lived through this. People have lived through this. But it will reverberate for a long time.

And don't forget, this is but one of many tragedies now we have seen, including what happened earlier this year, with a shooting of a madman going after elected officials, here in this community, people trying to come to terms with that, and now we see what's happened here as well.

It is unbelievable, and it's really disorienting, if I'm being honest with you, Kaitlan, because we report about stories all over the world, and we know that gun violence is a part of the fabric, unfortunately, of so many news stories in our communities across this country.

Yet when it hits so close to home, and when you have children who were coming together, hoping that this would be a time of community, a time of revisiting, and new friendships, now will be forever linked and bonded by the tragedy that we have seen here today.

But I am hopeful by what I have seen from the community members, and the response, and officers who are still behind us, who are talking about the experiences that they have, who are still here in unison with the community, that there is hope on the horizon. And certainly hope we hear more wonderful news about those who are surviving this tragedy that's happened here.

COLLINS: Yes.

COATES: But it is really disorienting for me to see that this is happening really in my hometown.

[21:10:00]

COLLINS: Yes. Laura Coates, I'm glad you're there, to tell this story. Thank you for that.

COATES: Thanks, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: And as Laura was mentioning there, in this area that she knows so well, several of the families live in the neighborhood around the Annunciation Catholic Church.

Carla and Pedro Maldonado learned, not from one of those dreaded alerts that you get from schools, when moments like this happen, but instead from the sound of actual gunshots. And they talked about the frantic moments, as they were part of those neighbors who rushed to the scene today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEDRO MALDONADO, PARENT: They opened the church, and I walked inside the church with a police officer, with the first one, and the things that I saw, I don't wish any parent would see ever in their lives, because it was terrific (ph), and I hope that nobody else goes through this, because it is horrible.

CARLA MALDONADO, PARENT: We knew that our kids were OK, because Pedro, when he got to the church, were yelling for them, and he found our daughter, who was seven. And then, we didn't know about our son, who was 11, until a little bit later. He had been escorted to the basement of the church for safety, but he -- he was OK, and ended up getting escorted outside of the church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: My next source tonight represents this community, here in D.C. Annunciation Catholic sits in her congressional district.

Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, I'm glad that you're here today, and thank you.

And she obviously is someone who is on the ground. A lot of these lawmakers are on recess, right now, not here in Washington. She visited the school today, which is included in her district, and where that is.

And obviously, as we're trying to establish her connection here, obviously, this is something that lawmakers, here in Washington, as they are now at home, have been reckoning with.

And today, as we were hearing our first official updates, from those lawmakers -- that law enforcement on the ground, you saw several of those lawmakers there, including Minnesota senator, Amy Klobuchar, who was there, describing how a former staffer of hers knew people who were there, and watching what happened and, of course, witnessing it, and learning more about the investigation, with the rest of us.

We're going to speak to Congresswoman Omar in just a moment, once we've established her connection, so we can hear what it was like to hear from these community members, in the school today.

Andy McCabe is also here with us, the former Deputy Director of the FBI.

And Andrew McCabe, obviously, you just heard from these students, these parents. You heard from Laura, even just knowing this area so well, growing up there, what this is like. What does this look like, just, a few hours following a shooting like this, in terms of where this investigation stands, and how communities are reeling from this. This is an all-too familiar American theme of school communities having to deal with the aftermath of a mass shooting.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Yes, that's absolutely right. I mean, what we're seeing right now, Kaitlan, is yet another American community plunging into this experience of grief and anger and outrage, frustration, anxiety, all those things that you would feel as someone who is maybe a family member of one of the victims, or just a friend, or an associate, or a schoolmate of one of those people who's been victimized, or just someone in the community who knows of that school and the people who go there.

There's no way that you can experience something like this, have this happen, in your town, in your neighborhood and your school, or in a school down the road, and not feel that viscerally. And they're -- they are, unfortunately, going to have to go through this well-trodden path that so many other communities have gone through.

COLLINS: Yes, and that is the reeling from all of this, and what that means in the moment. I mean, you can see, from the pictures, of parents rushing to the scene and looking around, just the grief and the shock already on their face.

Andrew McCabe, standby, because I do want to talk to you about this investigation, and what this looks like.

Congresswoman Omar is back with us.

And you were at the school today. What did you hear from the parents, the teachers, the kids who were -- who were there?

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Unfortunately, I didn't have the opportunity. As you know, these families, the victims, and the neighbors, are experiencing an unspeakable tragedy.

[21:15:00]

And as a mother of young children, I can't even imagine what it must have felt, knowing that they had just dropped their kids off, that they were in their morning Mass, literally praying, which is one of the most normal and wholesome things that we want our children involved, and to have someone come in and assassinate their children, and few moments later to get a phone call, to be told that your beautiful angels that you just dropped off in school are no longer alive, or are hospitalized with life-threatening injuries.

And so, my heart breaks for these families, and the victims, and I hope that we all continue to pray, for them to be made whole, for them to find space to grieve, and for them to -- and the whole community to come out of this tragedy better, and hopefully change the way our society continues to normalize these kind of tragedies that we see every day. COLLINS: You said, after the shooting, that you're committed to, quote, doing Everything I can to stop these tragedies from occurring ever again.

I think the question that everyone has, watching tonight, is how?

OMAR: Yes, I mean, that is a question that we've asked ourselves. When Columbine happened, back when I was in high school, we've asked ourselves that question, when we saw little babies being slaughtered in Sandy Hook. We continue to ask ourselves that question.

What I can tell you is that we collectively have a solution. We know that when we allow, as a country, for guns to be accessible, to people, in the easy way that it is, in the United States, we continue to have these kind of tragedies. When we do not, collectively, as a community, in the United States, address mental health illness. When we don't see these children and communities that are impacted, and look for signs that tell us, there is something wrong.

We know that the assailant, in this tragedy, had a YouTube page, where he was posting, documenting the kind of insanity that unfolded today. Somebody saw that. And what we want to change is our perspective. We want to be able to become a country that sees images like that and alerts someone. Because, if that would have happened, today two beautiful angels would still be with us, a whole community would not be devastated, and these families will still have their loved ones going home to them tonight.

COLLINS: Yes, you just can't even imagine what these -- those parents are feeling tonight. And as you noted, I mean, it's every parent's worst nightmare.

And when you look at this, in terms of the school, and just Minnesota in general. I was looking at the laws. Governor Walz signed stronger laws into place, not that long ago.

The state requires checks for purchase of guns. You need a permit to buy a firearm, and also to carry it in public. There's a Red Flag law. It's called the Extreme Risk Protection Order. As you know, it allows family members, law enforcement, to file a petition, restricting somebody from having a gun if they're a danger.

It just -- but it raises the question of, in a state, where there are all the -- are these protective measures in place, and a Red Flag law that clearly did not stop this person from accessing guns, what else would have happened -- what else could have been done here to help?

OMAR: Well, there is still a preliminary -- we're still in the preliminary stage of investigation, so we are not sure if the guns were obtained and purchased, here in Minnesota.

And again, we have to remember why federal legislation is important. Because we do live in the United States of America, we are interconnected. And so, constantly having these conversations, on a local level or a state level, and not having them on a national level, creates loopholes for people, who are deranged, to explore. And so, I am calling on my colleagues, when we come back into Congress, for us to put our differences aside, for us to recognize that partisanship is not saving our children. And we are uniquely finding ourselves, in this danger, as a country, here in the United States. So, we uniquely need to figure out a way to resolve this issue, and come to a commonsense way of solving this.

COLLINS: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, thank you for joining tonight, on just such a horrific night for your community, and please tell everybody there that our hearts are with them.

OMAR: I will. Thank you so much for all your prayers.

COLLINS: Thank you.

[21:20:00]

We're going to continue to cover the tragic shooting here. I'm actually going to speak with the Minneapolis Police Chief, on what this investigation looks like, and the questions that the Congresswoman just raised there, as this is very much still underway tonight. That's right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Back with our breaking news tonight, as investigators are combing through disturbing videos, apparently posted to YouTube, by the Minneapolis Catholic school shooter, who has been identified by the police as 23-year-old Robin Westman.

As we're continuing to look at these details, and learning more, CNN's Brian Todd is joining me here.

And Brian, obviously the first question, in terms of our focus tonight, has been on the victims and their families and the survivors.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

[21:25:00]

COLLINS: But as this investigation is underway, what do we know about the suspected shooter tonight?

TODD: Kaitlan, we've compiled a lot of information about the shooter tonight. What we can tell you is that, according to a yearbook, obtained by CNN, the shooter, Westman graduated from Annunciation Catholic's grade school in 2017.

According to social media posts, his mother had previously worked at that school, from 2016 through 2021. The shooter had identified as a female, changed their name legally from Robert to Robin, in 2020. That's what we know about him, personally, at this hour.

We're still compiling some more information about possible motive, which the police are still looking into. They do not have enough information yet to establish this as a possible hate crime, as a possible motive, right now.

COLLINS: Which is something that we know, we've seen the FBI raise and the DHS Secretary.

In terms of the writings and the videos that the shooter had posted online, what is exactly are investigators combing through tonight?

TODD: They're combing through a lot of volume there, Kaitlan, and a lot of very disturbing volume.

What we can tell you is, according to the police investigation here, they posted -- the shooter posted a series of online videos, apparently posted by the shooter, which describe an obsession with school shootings.

Specifically, he had the names of the Sandy Hook shooter, the Columbine shooters and others, in these videos and in writings. The videos show a rambling statement with guns painted with slurs, again, with mass killers' names and with some political messages on them.

In the videos, which are titled with his full name -- excuse me, the shooter's full name, the person records pages -- he pages through a written notebook. The notebook describes feelings of self-hatred and the desire to die, and the words, quote, I'm so sorry, are written in large letters on one page. There were also some anti-Black, antisemitic writings in these messages, according to our John Miller.

COLLINS: Yes, and obviously, I'm sure all of that is being used. I know I heard them say earlier, it's been pulled down from YouTube and other places where it was posted.

TODD: Right.

COLLINS: But obviously, they're still going through it.

Brian Todd, as you're learning more, please keep us updated on that.

TODD: Will do.

COLLINS: And as we talk about what this is going to look like, my investigative sources that are joining me tonight:

Former Minneapolis Police Chief, Arradondo.

And former FBI Deputy Director McCabe is back with me.

And Chief, I know you know this community incredibly well. And when you hear what Brian Todd lays out there, what stands out to you, about the shooter's profile is what we know so far.

MEDARIA ARRADONDO, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: Thank you for having me, Kaitlan.

What stands out, right now, is the shooter certainly did not try to hide, sort of his associations, or what he latched on to, in terms of that -- that social media world. And so, certainly, they're going to continue to go through that digital footprint. The Deputy Director, in terms of the federal part, can certainly -- can speak to that. But they're going to go through all of that information.

I think from the local police standpoint, Chief O'Hara's detectives are certainly going to be as probably this hour, they're talking with family members. They're going to be talking with coworkers, fellow students of this person's, and neighbors, and they're going to really try to get an idea, and a profile of the shooter and, ultimately, what the motives were. And so, that's going to be ongoing. And certainly, that investigation is ongoing now.

But that's sort of what stands out. He certainly did not have, Kaitlan, a known criminal history, to the Minneapolis Police Department, or local law enforcement. But certainly, he wasn't trying to hide himself, in terms of his social media footprint.

COLLINS: So Andrew, given that, we heard from the FBI Director, Kash Patel today, saying that right now, they're investigating this as what Kash Patel described as an act of domestic terrorism, hate crimes targeting Catholics.

If they're still digging through the profile, what would help them determine that, at this point, and how do they bolster that kind of going forward, in terms of what they are looking through from this -- a lot of information this shooter had posted online?

MCCABE: Yes, so, both of those determinations, whether you're looking at this as an act of domestic terrorism or a hate crime, which are they -- there's frequently overlap there, but they're not necessarily the same thing. But needless to say, both of those determinations would require significant evidence of specific intent.

So for hate crimes, you have to have evidence that the person committed this crime with a specific articulated animus towards a particular group. I'm not aware of any evidence so far, that we've heard about publicly, that indicates that he targeted the church specifically because he was going after Catholics. That might be the case, but I just don't know that we've heard that publicly.

[21:30:00]

And in terms of the domestic terrorism side, you need to show evidence of effort to impact the actions of government, kind of an ideological bent. Again, we might get to all these things eventually. But, at the end of the day, it doesn't make that much difference. The FBI certainly has solid grounds to be participating in this investigation, and being taking investigative steps on their own, and simply because of this, the scale of this horrific attack--

COLLINS: Yes.

MCCABE: --and our -- and our shooter is dead. So, there's not going to be a prosecution. There will never be a charge here.

COLLINS: Yes, but there are--

MCCABE: But in any case, it's--

COLLINS: There are family members--

MCCABE: Yes.

COLLINS: --and whatnot, to obviously speak to of the shooter as well and, as Brian Todd mentioned, friends and associates that knew the person.

Chief, the shooter identified, we are told, as female, legally changed their name from Robert to Robin. There was -- there were court documents, I believe, with the mother that was involved there. There's no connection yet from that to the motive from this so far, I should -- I should be sure to note.

But I wonder, if you're investigating this, is that something that they are looking into, in terms of the investigation at this stage? Or does that come, as this just develops from what they're looking at, in terms of what they hear from, from people who knew the shooter?

ARRADONDO: Yes, I think, Kaitlan, as the Deputy Director mentioned, there's going to be a lot of evidence, at that scene.

In terms of how the shooter identified, unless there's some sort of connection to, some focus, to act out in the violent manner in which they did at that school, it's -- I don't know if that's, at this juncture, even matters, at this point in time. But certainly, the investigation will reveal what it reveals. But at this point in time, I don't believe that how the shooter identifies, currently in this investigation, right now, is of significant importance right now.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and there's so much, and when you -- when you just look at the online profile of the videos that were posted, clearly a fascination with other mass shootings, as we have seen before as a pattern that develops. We know all of that is something that investigators will be looking into.

Chief Arradondo. And Andrew McCabe. It's great to have both of your expertise here, on where that investigation stands tonight. So, thank you, both.

Up next here for us, I am going to speak to the Minneapolis Police Chief, in terms of where this investigation stands, and also just this community that is reeling tonight.

[21:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, police are trying to determine why a heavily-armed shooter fired, through the windows of a Minneapolis Catholic school at the beginning of Mass, this morning, killing two children and hurting 17 other people.

The Minneapolis Police Chief, Brian O'Hara, joins me now.

And Chief, thank you for being here with us tonight. I can only imagine what your day has been like.

Just starting off, can you give us any updates on the 14 kids and the three elderly victims who were hurt today, and how we know they're doing tonight?

CHIEF BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Yes, well, obviously the entire community here has been traumatized by what has happened. Two young children, ages eight and 10, have been killed. They were pronounced deceased at the scene. And then the remaining victims, thankfully, are all expected to survive.

COLLINS: Do you know how many of the kids that were hurt are still in the hospital tonight?

O'HARA: Yes, some of the children have been released, but there are a number that still remain in the hospital. They had a range of injuries. One, I believe, was only a -- like a graze wound from a gunshot wound, all the way to some very, very serious and life- threatening injuries that, thankfully, they are expected to survive from.

COLLINS: Yes, and we're so grateful to hear that they are expected to survive. That was obviously everyone's first concern, hearing that.

For the families of that 8-year-old and the 10-year-old who were killed, have you had a chance to speak with those families?

O'HARA: I have not personally spoken with the families of the two children who were deceased. I know they were present here, and it was a very, very difficult process for officers that had to make those notifications. As well as, obviously all of the family members who had children, attending school here, it was a very emotional day.

I actually had one of the parishioners come up to me, very emotional, describing the first police officer that went into the church. He said, a number of children he was huddled with, and they were just terrified over what was happening, and he saw a police officer, in a regular uniform, not wearing a helmet, not with any rifle or SWAT gear, run in and ask him where the shooter was.

He said, he pointed the direction where the shooter had come from, and he said, that officer ran directly to where the shooting had happened. And he told me, that was the first time he and the other children there -- the children that were there, began to feel some sense of safety.

COLLINS: I mean, just thinking of what those kids felt in that moment. I mean, hearing from them, I think, is just is devastating.

Where were you, when you found out about the shooting?

[21:40:00]

O'HARA: I was downtown, and I got a call. Immediately, once it was confirmed, I responded and got here about 20 or 25 minutes after the first officer arrived. COLLINS: When it comes to the school itself, do you know if the school had ever asked for a law enforcement presence to be there before, as a precaution?

O'HARA: I don't have information about that. I do know, obviously, the school has its own safety procedures that are in place. It's a Catholic school that serves the community here. And I do, I actually believe they have had trainings, where they drill for these types of things.

And even, I am told that during the Mass, this morning, a number of the doors had been locked, once Mass began, which is part of their normal procedure. And obviously, we believe that this -- this step also played a part in ensuring this tragedy did not become that much -- that much worse.

COLLINS: On the shooter--

O'HARA: A number of the children had even described, getting down and taking cover, and helping others get cover, as they had practiced before.

COLLINS: Yes, just to think that kids know what to do in that situation speaks to, I think, a lot. My mom is a fourth grade teacher, and they practice these things regularly.

Sir, can I ask you, on the investigation itself, have you learned anything more about a potential motive here, given the videos and the writings that we know, that have been posted online?

O'HARA: Sure. Well, there were four search warrants that have been conducted. At least one is still -- the scene is still being processed, right now. There are documents that have been retrieved, dozens of pages that the FBI is helping us go through.

So, what we've seen so far is just a variety of hate, just really deranged comments, and almost like an idolizing of previous active shooters. So, right now, we don't have a clear motive to establish for why he did this at the church today. We are obviously open to every possibility. And we're hopeful that once we are able to go through the scene, all of the evidence that's collected, that we'll be able to better-provide answers for our community.

COLLINS: Yes. What were those other -- I understand one's still ongoing. But what were the other places where you executed those search warrants?

O'HARA: There were three. One is the church, and then there are three residences in the Twin Cities metro that are associated with the shooter that -- that search warrants were approved and have been executed.

COLLINS: And we believe -- we saw a yearbook photo. But is it -- can you confirm that the suspect attended the grade school at Annunciation? O'HARA: Yes, we believe that the suspect, at some point was a student here, or a member of the parish, and that a family member here also worked for the church. So, he did have a--

COLLINS: OK. A connection.

O'HARA: --some level of a personal connection, to the church, yes.

COLLINS: And in those writings and videos that you've been seeing, I know, you mentioned, a lot of hate. We've heard from the FBI director say that they're investigating this as domestic terrorism, and a hate crime targeting Catholics. Have you seen anything that would speak to that so far?

O'HARA: Well, I can tell you, there is no question, whatsoever, that for the children, for the parishioners, for the family members that have been affected here, that this was absolutely terrorizing for them. There's no question about it.

But again, getting back to the actual motive per se, we are not ruling anything out. We are open to all possibilities, and we will examine all of the evidence as we get it, and then provide an accounting for anything we have to show, as far as what the motive may have actually been.

COLLINS: And as far as the weapons, I know, there were several, they're very popular firearms. Do you know if they were purchased in your state? Have you determined that yet?

O'HARA: As far as the weapons, there were three on the scene here. They were lawfully purchased. He had a permit to purchase, that was issued in Minnesota recently. I don't have information about where specifically those weapons were purchased, but they were purchased lawfully.

[21:45:00]

COLLINS: Chief, I know that you've seen a lot today. And we heard from a 5th grader, talking about what it was like to be inside Mass, this morning, when this happened.

Can I just ask personally, how you're -- how you're doing tonight, with your community going through something like this?

O'HARA: I -- I'm a parent myself. I have children, as do many of the men and women, police officers and the first responders that came here this morning, and just walked into this unthinkable, unthinkable act of violence.

And so, obviously, we are concerned, as we go through this investigation, and continue to handle the day-to-day responsibilities of the police department, that we look out for the health and wellness of our members that came here, not just our sworn officers, but our civilian professional staff, our crime lab personnel. Because this is just, this is one of those scenes that's just deeply, deeply traumatizing. COLLINS: Minneapolis Police Chief, I just -- Brian O'Hara, I just -- our hearts are with you all tonight. I mean, I can't imagine, for those officers who were there on the scene, responding right away. I just want to say thank you. And thank you for joining me tonight.

O'HARA: Yes. Thank you.

COLLINS: We appreciate your time.

We'll be back in just a moment with some breaking news, here in Washington, D.C.

[21:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: There's a major clash that is playing out, inside the Trump administration, tonight, after moments ago, the White House says in a new statement that it has terminated the CDC Director, Susan Monarez, because she is not aligned, they argue, with President Trump's agenda after just one month on the job.

Earlier tonight, we had heard from the Health and Human Services Department here, claiming that she was no longer the Director of the CDC, and thanking her for her service. It raised a lot of alarm bells, given she'd only been on the job for about a month.

And soon after that, though, we then heard from her attorneys who said otherwise, and they said, Contrary to government statements, Dr. Monarez has neither been -- has neither resigned, nor has she been fired. Her high-powered attorneys argued that the administration is targeting her, for standing up against the HHS Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

And now, of course, the White House says she has indeed been fired.

My White House insiders are here tonight.

Jasmine Wright of NOTUS.

And Jeff Mason of Reuters.

I mean, Jeff, this is pretty shocking, given, first off, just hearing this, the person they had picked to be in this job, they had replaced them. She literally just got through Senate confirmation, a month ago. What are you hearing about this tonight?

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Yes, just got there. I mean, I think what this boils down to is a very clear argument over vaccines.

And Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said, in his own nomination hearings, that he wasn't a skeptic, that he would still protect vaccines, that he just wanted more information, for example, about the coronavirus vaccines. He has come in as HHS Secretary, and done exactly the opposite. Reduced funding, for example, for the mRNA coronavirus vaccines that saved millions and millions of lives.

This Director pushed back, apparently, to some of the demands that he was putting on her, and now she's gone.

COLLINS: I mean, and there had obviously been tension between, we are told, the Health Secretary's office, and the CDC Director. What have you been hearing about this?

JASMINE WRIGHT, POLITICS REPORTER, NOTUS: Yes, I think that's exactly what we've been hearing. I mean, the fact is, is that the CDC, in these last seven months, has actually been through a lot, not just all of the vaccine changes, obviously, but they just had that -- shooting that was a lot under-covered.

MASON: Yes.

WRIGHT: We still haven't heard President Trump address it. Just a few weeks ago, and so, after that shooting, we have learned that Monarez actually was pushing back, internally, in some ways, against what she called, reportedly, the misinformation about vaccines. And so, it was very clear that that was one of the major issues.

Now, we were talking to a CDC employee, my colleague, Margaret Manto, who basically said they had basically hope that she was going to be the resistance against Robert F. Kennedy, inside the CDC, but that they were worried for her, after she made some of those comments after this shooting. And clearly, they said, But nope, she's gone now.

And so, I think that you're seeing this play out on a large scale, kind of reminiscent of Trump's first term.

COLLINS: I mean, and we're seeing other officials resign as a result of this tonight. I mean, I think we're just at the beginning of this, whatever the story is going to look like, even in 24 hours, Jeff.

MASON: 100 percent. Three other officials at the CDC resigned in the wake of her firing. She obviously is pushing back against that. And one of them said, The science is clear on vaccines, they save lives. And it really does come down to that very basic belief and that very basic piece of science.

COLLINS: I mean, one of the officials said, I'm unable to serve in an environment that treats the CDC as a tool to generate policies and materials that do not reflect scientific reality, and are designed to hurt rather than improve the public's health.

WRIGHT: Yes, and you heard from Monarez's lawyer, in that statement, basically saying that she was not going to rubber-stamp the policies that RFK, and other folks within HHS, who are against vaccines were trying to push. And so, it's a real look at how entities, like the CDC, like the FDA, are internally trying to, what they say, protect the American people, from folks who are in charge.

[21:55:00]

COLLINS: Jasmine Wright. Jeff Mason. This is a story I feel like we'll all be covering at the White House, tomorrow. Thanks for joining me tonight.

Right now, as we've been covering throughout the hour, Minneapolis is mourning, and the community is coming together for a vigil, this evening, to remember the victims of today's shooting. We'll check in on that, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:00:00]

COLLINS: There's an emotional vigil tonight, for the victims of the Minneapolis school shooting. Attendees have been speaking out, about the impact this attack has had on their tightknit community, and the devastating loss of two innocent children, just ages, eight and 10, as they were praying in church, along with their fellow classmates.

17 more people, 14 of them, also kids, were hurt tonight. Luckily, we heard from the Police Chief, they are expected to make a full recovery. We're certainly wishing them one, as our hearts go out to their families, their parents, and to the entire Minneapolis community, this evening.

Thank you for joining us.

Stay with CNN for the news. "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.