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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

GOP Rep. Massie Wants To Compel DOJ Release Of All Epstein Files; Trump On Sending National Guard To Chicago: "We're Going In"; Leaders Of Russia, North Korea, Iran Attend Chinese Military Parade. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired September 02, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, the House Oversight Committee just released more than 30,000 pages of documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. But what's in them, what's new, and will it be enough to satisfy these calls for accountability and transparency?

I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

As we come on the air tonight, we are digging through 33,000 just- released pages of documents, related to the Jeffrey Epstein case, released tonight by the House Oversight Committee.

The thousands of pages that we've seen so far contain flight logs, court filings and surveillance footage. And we're still reading through all of it, all 33,000 pages. But right now, it's not clear how much of it is new or what was already public before this evening.

What is clear is that some Republicans still don't think it's enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): It's like only 1 percent of what they possess, and 97 percent of it has already been released.

I'm afraid, is this is going to be like Pam Bondi's binders, is people are going to dig into it and say there's nothing new here. They haven't given us anything. They've given us the sleeves off their vest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Tonight, the Republican House Speaker finds himself facing the same fight that he tried to avoid, when he sent the House home, early in July.

Speaker Mike Johnson, and members of the House Oversight Committee, met with six survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, for more than two hours, behind closed doors, in Washington today. Upon leaving, several members talked about the meeting as emotional and informative. Some of them, like Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who you saw here, were seen leaving the room in tears. Speaker Johnson emerged, in front of the cameras, and laid out a noticeably different objective than the one that was being pushed, and that is being pushed tonight, by the Republican, Thomas Massie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The objective here is not just to uncover, investigate the Epstein evils, but also to ensure that this never happens again.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you mean, if this place is corrupt?

MASSIE: Well, I mean if they're going to cover up for rich and powerful, and politically-connected people, which is still what is happening right now here, and that's why I'm bringing this discharge petition today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Congressman Massie, and at least a handful of Republicans, alongside House Democrats, are still pushing, this evening, for a bill that would do exactly what the White House does not want, which is to try to force the Justice Department to release the investigative files.

Instead, Speaker Johnson wants Congress to vote on a move that would leave the matter, basically in the hands of the House Oversight Committee, as it is now. This is why the Republican from Kentucky doesn't think that that move is good enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASSIE: They've couched it as an investigation of the investigators, like, they're looking to see if the DOJ did a good investigation. They're not looking for the obvious thing, which is there are co- conspirators and customers of Jeffrey Epstein that need to be found out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: As for the White House, we heard from an official there tonight, who told CNN, quote, Helping Thomas Massie and liberal Democrats with their attention-seeking, while the Justice Department is fully supporting a more comprehensive file release effort by the Oversight Committee, would be viewed as a very hostile act to the administration.

Starting us off tonight is CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju, up on Capitol Hill.

And Manu, based on what you've seen so far, is it clear what is new in these documents tonight?

RAJU: It doesn't seem like there is a lot of new information, Kaitlan. I mean, this is a huge amount of information, 33,000 pages of documents. But in going through it with our team, it appears that a lot of it is flight logs. It has a lot of depositions, memos and surveillance-related records from the jail cell, where Jeffrey Epstein was found dead, among other matters that have actually already been public.

[21:05:00]

So, whether there's actually new information that changes the dynamic, on Capitol Hill, is really the big question, at the moment. Because the Republican leadership has hoped and wanted this information out there, as soon as tonight to try to prevent that effort by Thomas Massie from succeeding, to try to convince those Republicans, who have demanded this information be released, to not side with Thomas Massie and say that, Look, this information has been -- is out there, I'm satisfied with this information, and we don't need a separate vote.

The question is, will that effort ultimately succeed, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Well, and Manu, it's pretty remarkable. I mean, members of Congress have been gone from Washington, for weeks now, and they've only been back for hours. And already, Speaker Mike Johnson is facing basically the same fight, and same kind of resistance, that he was when he sent them home just a few weeks ago.

RAJU: Yes, no question about it. And I caught up with a number of those same Republicans, the ones who have been demanding this information, and whether or not they were satisfied with this information that's been out there.

Some of them indicated that they are, and they said that they will not side with Thomas Massie on this effort.

But others said that they are still reviewing this information, and that they might ultimately join Thomas Massie, on this effort, because of this information that they say does not fully account for all the data and all -- everything that we know about this case.

Listen to what some of the Republicans had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASSIE: Look, if my legislation were redundant, why would the White House be trying to stop it? It's not redundant. There are things that the White House doesn't want out there, that my legislation would cause to be released. And that, I mean, even the White House doesn't believe that the Oversight Committee has released everything.

RAJU: Is there more information beyond these 33,000 pages--

REP. ANNA PAULINA LUNA (R-FL): Well there's--

RAJU: --that needs to come out?

PAULINA LUNA: --there's going to be names. The attorneys kept emphasizing, you need to follow up on the names. These girls are not just making this up. These are some of the wealthiest people, probably, in the world. And we'll start from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Kaitlan, the magic number is six. Can Thomas Massie convince six Republicans in total, including himself, to sign on to this measure?

Right now, he's got a handful who have said yes. The others will -- have not indicated that they'll go forward. And will they listen to the President and the White House who do not want them to join Massie? That's going to be the big key question in the days ahead here, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Manu Raju, we'll keep watching what happens on Capitol Hill. Thanks for that reporting tonight.

And as this call for transparency, on the files, is only growing louder, on Capitol Hill. Tomorrow, survivors of Epstein's abuse are expected to rally there. The family of Virginia Giuffre will join them. She was one of the most outspoken survivors of Epstein and Maxwell. She died by suicide, earlier this year.

And her brothers, Sky, and Danny Wilson, as well as her sister-in-law, Amanda Roberts, join me now.

And it's great to have you guys here, in person. Obviously, we've spoken before, about Virginia, and her legacy, and what she fought so much for.

I want to ask about what's happening on Capitol Hill in this fight. But for this rally, tomorrow, the Stand with Survivors rally, that's going to be happening here, what is your family hoping to accomplish, and what message are you trying to get across, tomorrow?

DANNY WILSON, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: Number one, it's our honor to stand with the survivors of Epstein and Maxwell. It was my sister's wish, with us as her brothers and family, that we would fight with her, once she came back to the United States. And we feel empowered to stand behind these women, these strong lion-like women, in their fight.

And I think, for our family, what it's brought is, is some -- some grace, to be around like-minded people, and to be around people that had the same goals of what she wanted, and to hear that their enthusiasm for us, supporting them, and to just -- just be a part of something bigger than us.

COLLINS: And by that, you mean you met with survivors today?

WILSON: Yes.

COLLINS: Other people who went through what she went through.

What was that like?

SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: It was incredible. I mean, I think there's -- there's strength in numbers. And as much as sometimes, you, you know -- I think, we look at something like transparency, and they're creating this perception of transparency. But reality is it's -- it's not there.

And I think what -- what this is doing is it's showing -- showing our government, and showing the American people, that we will not back down, that you can't just shove this underneath the rug. You can't -- that will no longer be suffice, like we are -- we're asking for real action, we're asking for real change.

And the truth is, is it empowers us, it empowers us to keep going forward, because there is real strength in numbers, and we will not back down until we see some sort of justice.

COLLINS: Was it difficult to meet with these other survivors today, and to hear -- hear their stories as well?

[21:10:00]

WILSON: I think what made it difficult was that my sister wasn't there. She talked about this moment, for a long time.

COLLINS: She wanted this moment.

WILSON: She wanted it. And her not being there, it hurts. But to be around the people that are picking up the fight, and to see the poise, and the fierceness, and the fact that more and more survivors are coming forward, I mean, it really does give me some glimmer of hope.

COLLINS: I imagine, a lot of those survivors are probably inspired by your sister, and how outspoken in public she was for many years.

AMANDA ROBERTS, SISTER-IN-LAW OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: Yes, I think that was -- that was the common thread of the night. Even some of them who hadn't had a chance to actually meet her in person, but were so inspired by her bravery and by coming forward, it was special. It felt like she was still in the room with us.

And each -- everyone that we've met, we see so much of her bravery and her resilience in them. So, it just, it keeps her voice alive. It keeps us going. It gave us strength. And even though it's so heavy, and it's a horrific experience, there was something about this sisterhood that they've built, that was that -- there's safety there, and there is love there, and there's so much power and strength, and it almost helps us through this grieving process.

COLLINS: How does it help you in the -- in the way -- did it -- did it surprise you at all, in terms of -- I mean, obviously this is such a painful thing that you have to talk about, and have brought up, and obviously now, because of the headlines, is even more at the forefront.

A. ROBERTS: I think when you talk about legacy, Virginia is legacy. That's what that means. I think it's just, it's surreal for us, when we're in the room with them, and we hear their stories. It just reminds us that she has a legacy to protect, and to keep forward, and we were given this mantle, you know? We didn't ask for it, but we will take it gladly for her. And so, when we think of her, and we think of them, that -- that is true legacy.

COLLINS: Are you hopeful that having these women here, to tell their stories, and to be as outspoken as your sister was, and to follow in her footsteps, will change the minds of some members of Congress?

WILSON: I'm not as sure about the minds of Congress, but I know that it's going to change the perception that the people have, you know?

And one of the biggest things that we've tried to push is it's not a left or a right issue. This is a human issue. Sex trafficking is a big global issue. And I think that once everybody is on the same page, left, right, the power of all of those people inquiring, plus the fight of what the survivors are doing now, I think it's going to take everybody.

COLLINS: When you see this fight that's playing out between Republicans and Republicans, over the release of more documents, does it seem almost trivial to you, in terms of what she went through, and what you're asking for ultimately here?

S. ROBERTS: Yes, I mean, I don't, you know -- I think Danny just said it best. It's -- this is far beyond politics. This is -- this is survivors' lives. These are, at the time, many of them children that were preyed upon by Ghislaine Maxwell, and by Epstein, and by many more. I mean, this is not just those two. You have to really think through of, like, this is -- this is a whole web that needs to be exposed.

And just because you have money, and just because you have power, doesn't mean that you get to just get away scot-free. And I think that's really what, you know, that's really what we're fighting for right now.

COLLINS: Well, and on that. Since I've spoken to y'all last, Todd Blanche has met with -- the Deputy Attorney General met with Ghislaine Maxwell, and sat down with her, and they released that interview. She's the only person who's ever been convicted in this case.

[21:15:00]

In your view, given what you know from your sister, are you satisfied with that outcome?

S. ROBERTS: Absolutely not. I don't--

WILSON: I think I -- I'm sorry.

S. ROBERTS: Go ahead. It's OK.

WILSON: I think that it makes me personally sick, to see the treatment that she's gotten, and speaking to the survivors who had dealings with her, all the way back to when they were children, it's amplified even more. And to see the -- it almost seems like a trickery, if that makes any sense, that this woman did heinous things. She's whisked away in the middle of the night to, quite frankly, I think it looks like a country club. 20 years sentence, which, in my opinion, I also think it should be more. We're not happy about it.

COLLINS: Because she was moved to a new prison.

WILSON: Yes.

A. ROBERTS: Yes.

COLLINS: Lower security. Still no explanation, really, of why she was moved.

A. ROBERTS: Right.

COLLINS: When you read through the transcripts of her interview, with the Justice Department, she proclaims her innocence, and basically says that it was kind of a conspiracy that was blown out of proportion, essentially, when it comes to the web that you're referencing there, of powerful figures. I wonder what you thought about that.

A. ROBERTS: I mean, she was convicted. That's not a conspiracy. Testimony after testimony after testimony. She has been proven to be not a victim, but she has been convicted of sex trafficking minors. There were six counts that were brought against her.

So, I find it odd that we would sit down, and allow a convicted sex trafficker, known perjurer, allowed a platform to rewrite her history, to rewrite her narrative, right? I think this is potentially someone who's going to say whatever she needs to say, to adjust her position.

And it's so odd, it's not normal, that that had taken place, and there was no consideration to survivors there. There wasn't a call from the DOJ, to ask them their experiences. So, it really felt like a very big violation to survivors, to us, but also our justice system in general.

COLLINS: Sky, do you want the President to rule out pardoning her, which is pretty clear is what she -- she could -- does stand to gain here from the administration?

S. ROBERTS: Yes, like, unequivocally yes. I think doing anything otherwise is a big injustice to the survivors. It's, you know, there's -- to me, it's -- it feels like we're protecting people that don't need to be protected, people that sex trafficked children, many children at the time. And by not coming out and doing the right thing.

We're not asking for anything out of the ordinary here. I think that's why the ordinary person can relate with us so well, is because this is a very simple ask. It's -- this is humanity. This is not a political issue, like we're talking about children, and I don't think anybody would stand behind that.

So, yes, he needs to rule out pardoning her. Anything otherwise would be a complete -- I mean, you need to be starting to ask yourself some very serious questions at that point. We've made some statements around cover-ups and things of that sort, and I don't want to get into that. But certainly that should be something that should be on the table, is ruling out a pardon.

COLLINS: You've mentioned that you don't think Ghislaine Maxwell's sentence was nearly long enough as long as you thought it should be. Do you think that -- and when Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna mentions the other figures that she says are powerful and rich people, that the Justice Department should reopen the investigation here?

[21:20:00]

WILSON: I absolutely think they should reopen the investigation. I think two part -- you know, a two-part thing. You release the files, you reopen the investigation, and let's get to the bottom of it. It's a good thing that I don't write the laws. 20 years for what she did to my sister and others? You should -- you should go away forever.

S. ROBERTS: And the thing with that, and I'll add at is, there's so many more.

A. ROBERTS: Yes.

S. ROBERTS: She's not the only one. So, I really do believe, and we believe that it's time to do the right thing.

A. ROBERTS: Yes.

S. ROBERTS: And, sure, we have these files that released today. That's not all of them. And you're giving this perception of transparency that really, is more or less what they want you to see.

And, of course, we'll gladly go through those, and obviously, if there's new information. But at least in what -- what I'm being told, at least initially, is there's not really a lot of new information that is coming out through those. So, there's so many more. She's -- sure, she's the only one that's been convicted. But there's -- this is not -- she is not the only one.

A. ROBERTS: Yes. I mean, it was a global sex trafficking ring, right? There's so many people that -- that need, over a span of decades, there's so many people that need to facilitate that. I mean, you're talking about potential, maybe, lawyers, doctors that were involved that allowed this to go under. And I think Virginia said it the most, like they knew, they saw it happen right underneath their nose. And there's still so many more that need to be held accountable, and that is the next step. Transparency, but accountability.

COLLINS: So this release today is not enough for the three of you, it sounds like?

A. ROBERTS: From what we've seen so far, that we know so far, it doesn't scratch even the surface.

COLLINS: Can I ask just -- being in that room, meeting with other people who had similar experiences to your sister. There's no guarantee that anything gets released from what has been released so far, and I just wonder how that would make you feel, if nothing is ultimately released here?

WILSON: What I felt today was momentum. It felt like -- it felt like a wildfire was set. And we saw this many survivors. We saw -- it was a big group, but in the grand scheme of how many people that are entangled in this, once the rest of the flood gets here, I think that down line, it's going to -- it's going to get its exposure that it needs.

S. ROBERTS: Yes, and it shouldn't be up to the survivors to release this list. It should be the Department of Justice. I mean, if you really say, you're for the people, then you need to be for the people and for the survivors.

And ultimately, it's like, Why are we beating around the bush? I think, it was said during the interview today, and we're going to have to release it ourselves, because and -- but that's not up to the survivors, and nor should it be.

The Department of Justice should do the right thing. Our President of the United States should do the right thing. And we should release the files. The Department of Justice should serve the people.

COLLINS: Danny. Sky. Amanda. Thank you all three for being here. I know it's been a very busy day for you, and you've got a lot tomorrow, but I really appreciate you taking the time to come in tonight.

S. ROBERTS: Thank you.

WILSON: Thank you for having us.

A. ROBERTS: Thank you.

S. ROBERTS: Thank you.

A. ROBERTS: Thank you.

COLLINS: Thank you so much.

And we'll be right back.

[21:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is facing major pushback, from Illinois officials, after he said it's a matter of when, not if, he deploys the National Guard into Chicago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Chicago is a hellhole right now.

We're going in. I didn't say when. We're going in. When you lose -- look, I have an obligation. This isn't a political thing.

If the Governor of Illinois would call up -- call me up, I would love to do it. Now, we're going to do it anyway, we have the right to do it, because I have an obligation to protect this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The President said he was bolstered by the headlines that at least 56 people were shot in Chicago, over the Labor Day holiday weekend, seven of whom were killed. Those numbers are worse than last year's holiday weekend. But overall, violent crime and homicides are down in Chicago.

And Trump's explicit threat to send the troops to Chicago could be complicated, after a federal judge ruled that the President's use of the National Guard and Marines in Los Angeles, back in June, was illegal. It does put limits on the utility of using troops for law enforcement purposes in L.A. But in this 52-page filing, it does not prevent the President from sending the National Guard to Chicago or any other city.

My lead source tonight is the Democratic Attorney General, for the State of Illinois, Kwame Raoul.

And it's great to have you here.

Because obviously, there's a major question tonight, one, in just how is your office preparing for what President Trump says is inevitable, which is the National Guard going into Chicago?

KWAME RAOUL, (D) ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, we've been working to anticipate how he may do it. Obviously, D.C. and California serve as an example. We weighed in on an amicus brief in the case in California, because we thought some aspects of that were inappropriate.

[21:30:00]

The Constitution sets out that Congress, through the Militia Clause, has the authority to set the framework, as to when the President can federalize the Guard, and the Posse Comitatus Act provides a framework to do so.

We have no foreign invasion. There's no rebellion. This is not January 6. And the federal government is able to carry out federal law. The courts are operating. Federal law enforcement agencies are operating. They're working on crime, here in Chicago. In fact, we've had great collaborations with federal law enforcement agencies, in my six and a half years as Attorney General, with the FBI, DEA, ATF.

And if the President were serious about trying to help find crime in Chicago? Instead of proposing to take resources away from the ATF, he would fully fund and add more resources to successful collaborations that we have. Same with the FBI--

COLLINS: Yes. RAOUL: --and the DEA.

COLLINS: Well, and there's questions about, you know -- when you say the word, collaboration, there. Because what Governor Pritzker said today was talking about how little collaboration there's been with the Trump administration. So of course, a question of what that looks like, if they do go in.

But I want to ask you, given what you said there. Because the Chicago City Council member, Raymond Lopez, posted today that, If Trump is paying, he said, let the National Guard come here. Not in our communities, but protecting assets and high priority targets downtown, so that Chicago Police doesn't have to do things like babysit the Bean or the Buckingham Fountain for eight hours a day. He said, Our officers can return to their districts and answer the thousands of 911 calls logged but never answered. A month without a murder should be everyone's goal.

So, what do you say to people who say, Why not just accept additional manpower here?

RAOUL: Well, I'd say, first of all, it's not sustainable. It's bad strategy. It's not sustainable. National Guard -- having National Guard deployed, for a couple of weeks, maybe you can celebrate, Oh, we have good numbers for a couple of weeks, but it's not sustainable over time. And I'm more interested in what's going to last throughout. Not just what can -- you have a good photo-op for a couple of weeks for.

Two, National Guard troops are not trained to do local law enforcement. FBI agents, DEA agents, ATF agents, are trained to fight crime, and they have collaborated with local law enforcement. And so, I would prefer more resources on that end than sending the military, illegally, into the streets of American cities against American citizens.

COLLINS: Illinois Attorney General, Kwame Raoul, it's great to have you. And I foresee that we will be talking more in the future. So, thank you for joining us tonight.

RAOUL: Thank you for having me.

COLLINS: And happening right now, there is a major show of force underway in China. These are live pictures out of Beijing, this hour. President Xi Jinping is hosting more than two dozen world leaders, as China is marking 80 years since the end of World War II, with a massive military parade. On hand, Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin. We're live on the ground, with the latest, next.

[21:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're watching live pictures tonight. Right now, a massive parade, underway in Beijing, as the Chinese President, Xi Jinping, is showing off his country's arsenal and military might to the world, and to the more than two dozen foreign leaders, who were there in person, attending this military parade. That includes those from Russia, North Korea and Iran.

In a speech, just a few moments ago, President Xi warned that the world needs to choose, as he put it, quote, between peace and war.

I want to get straight to CNN's Ivan Watson, who is live on the ground, in Beijing.

And obviously Ivan, we're watching this play out, and just seeing how extensive this military parade is so far. What's clear to you from the message that China is trying to send tonight?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a message of strength. This is a message of victory. After all, they are commemorating the 80th anniversary of the surrender of Japan. China was a major battleground in World War II for eight long years, to the tune of perhaps around 20 million Chinese casualties, during the Japanese military's invasion and occupation of parts of China.

And this is a demonstration to China and the world, that China is strong, it can protect itself, and that Xi Jinping is the ruler of this country. He has just done a review of the troops, in his presidential limousine.

And now, we're being treated to scenes of uniformed soldiers with helmets, jogging alongside tanks and other military vehicles and jumping into them. We're seeing drones on display, and they will be part of the parade that is at hand here.

Kaitlan, I think, on the one hand, this is a demonstration of Chinese military muscle and discipline. It's a scorching hot day here in Beijing, and the troops are out in full uniforms and helmets, jogging, marching in unison.

[21:40:00]

But by the same token, there is a demonstration of China's friends outside of China. And I think one of the enduring images that will emerge from this is of Xi Jinping, walking up a red carpet towards the Tiananmen Gate, from where he and other world leaders have been reviewing this parade, and walking alongside Russian President, Vladimir Putin, to his right, North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, to his left, those two very important guests, the VIPs, and demonstrating how important they are to Xi Jinping himself, by placing them front and center during what is effectively a Chinese celebration here.

Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, it says so much just to be able to see these images. I mean, there -- it's a pretty striking show of force, just to see them all standing side by side, watching this play out.

WATSON: It is. And it comes after days of diplomacy. Just this weekend, China was hosting this regional security grouping, called the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. And the North Korean leader was not in that. He's not a member of that group. But Vladimir Putin was there, as was the Prime Minister of India, and leaders of dozens of other countries. And the message there was much more pointed and directed at the U.S., and calling out bullying, in the words of the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, a cold war mentality.

These are all code words that he and the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, use, to criticize international relations that they would argue have too long been dominated by the U.S., effectively since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and that these two leaders have chafed at, and they have been calling for what they claim would be a more equitable world order, a multipolar world order.

So, there is a lot of symbolism that we are seeing, over the course of the last several days, from diplomacy, now to military might.

Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. Ivan Watson, we'll continue to check back in with you. Keep us updated with what you're seeing on the ground, in Beijing.

And on these just striking images that we're seeing here. I also want to bring in CNN's Senior Military Analyst, and the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Admiral James Stavridis, who's joining me this hour.

And Admiral, I mean, just to what Ivan was showing there. I mean, these pictures, just to see Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, all together.

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, BOARD MEMBER FOR ANKURA, FORTINET, AON, CONSULTS FOR BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGIES: Yes.

COLLINS: As someone with your experience, how do you see these? What does that say to you? What message does it send?

STAVRIDIS: Let's start with the iconography here. Pretty powerful. You're seeing very capable, very sophisticated military aircraft. You're seeing bold young Chinese soldiers leaping into armored personnel carriers.

I'll just make a side point here. China has not been in a significant war since the Korean War. They don't have a single admiral or general who has ever been in combat. They have had a dust-up with Vietnam in the 1970s, a border skirmish with India. They're not an experienced military.

You can make the argument, Kaitlan, that's to their credit, they've avoided war. But significantly, if you had to stack up the U.S. Armed Forces, like it or not, we're a highly-blooded armed force. We're quite experienced. I think that's a factor worth considering.

Where I want to park is Ivan's excellent point about the diplomacy that preceded this. I'm less concerned about the parades and the sharp-looking troops and the jets. What I'm concerned about is the way, in particular, India and Modi appear to have really aligned themselves with China and Russia. That's where we really ought to focus here, less on the military parade--

COLLINS: Well can I--

STAVRIDIS: --more on the diplomacy.

COLLINS: Can I ask you on that? Because the President actually just, I mean, clearly, is also watching this, and said tonight, the big question to be answered, I'm quoting President Trump now, is whether or not President Xi of China will mention the massive amount of support and blood, the United States of America gave to China in order to help it secure its freedom from a very unfriendly foreign invader.

He goes on to say, May President Xi and the wonderful people of China have a great and lasting day of celebration. He says, Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un, as you conspire against the United States of America.

STAVRIDIS: That would be kind of the ultimate mixed message, as far as I'm concerned. There is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a malevolent force in the world. Kim Jong Un is running a criminal enterprise disguised as a nation. And both of them are being supported by China. That's unfortunate, from a U.S. perspective.

[21:45:00]

What we ought to do about it, Kaitlan, back to India, we had to do everything we can to kind of pull India, the world's largest democracy, back toward the West. And allowing them to drift into the orbit of Putin and Xi? Enormous diplomatic mistake.

COLLINS: Yes, and of course, India has been -- is facing huge tariffs because of that China -- is not (ph) facing tariffs because of the oil it's getting from Russia.

Admiral James Stavridis, we'll continue to watch all of this. It's always great to have your expertise, here on the show. So, thank you for joining.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Up next. What President Trump also had to say today, not only was he asked about China and this, but also about those rumors and the rampant conspiracies you saw this weekend about his health.

White House insider, Maggie Haberman, is going to join me, right after this.

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[21:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: You probably saw a ton of online speculation, in recent days, about President Trump's wellbeing and his whereabouts. He actually just addressed that in the Oval Office, as he was speaking to reporters, for the first time in six days. The last time he had been in front of the cameras was when he was here at the White House, holding that lengthy Cabinet meeting, last Tuesday, that stretched for more than three hours, where the President took questions from reporters, at the end.

As he was taking questions from reporters, again today, one of them asked him about the speculation about where he has been and what he's been doing?

TRUMP: No, I heard that. I get reports.

Now, you knew I did an interview that lasted for about an hour and a half with somebody, and everybody saw, that was on one of your competitors. I did numerous shows and also did a number of Truths, long Truths, I think, pretty poignant Truths. No, I was very active over the weekend. They also knew I went out to visit some people at the -- at the club that I own, pretty nearby on the Potomac River. And no, I've been very active actually over the weekend.

COLLINS: Now, Trump noted to reporters that he had been very active on Truth Social, over the weekend, with several lengthy posts, and those appearances that he made in his golf course, right outside of Washington, D.C., over the weekend.

But according to a CNN review of the President's daily schedule, this was actually the longest stretch that he has gone without speaking to reporters, on camera, since he took office again, back in January. Now, he did do an interview with one reporter, over the weekend. It was not in front of the cameras. But a notable absence from President Trump, who often is speaking to reporters, and also doing so with the cameras in the room.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Lots to discuss tonight with tonight's White House insider, The New York Times' White House correspondent, Maggie Haberman, who is also the Author of "Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America."

And Maggie, when you heard the President say today that he wasn't aware of these conspiracies. I mean, he did write, in all-caps, on Sunday, that he had NEVER FELT BETTER IN MY LIFE, as he posted on Truth Social. Obviously, he kind of seemed to know something was up.

And I wonder what your reporting says about his assertions that he didn't know about all this rampant speculation, over the weekend.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "CONFIDENCE MAN": Well, Kaitlan, it was interesting. I think he said three different things in that answer. He said he didn't know. Then he said he did know. Then he said he was informed. And he clearly was aware of it. As you said, he did that Truth Social post.

I have to say that the rumors about his health took off online in a way that we haven't seen. A theory, we -- you could call it a conspiracy theory, take off online in some time.

Look, President Trump has never been transparent about his health. He was much sicker with COVID than the White House said in 2020. He took this mysterious Walter Reed visit in 2019. That was later said to be a colonoscopy. But he doesn't like talking about his health. And so, in some ways, he invites this. And if you're going to be absent for six days after talking especially about President Biden's long absences from the public, you're going to get these questions.

That said, there was a lot of demands that the mainstream media should prove that he's in some kind of ill health. And that is, you know, that's a rabbit hole to go down. We can only report on what we're able to report on.

COLLINS: Right. And there have been moments, to your point, about how this was handled when he was in office, the last time, about his health.

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: Obviously, in the most -- one of the most serious moments when he -- when he did get COVID-19.

Part of this, why there has been the speculation, one, is just simply his age. Obviously, these questions followed Biden around long before the end of his presidency as well.

But also, with the bruises on his right hand -- or his left hand, something that has been there for several weeks now, several months now. We've heard from people who say that he is self-conscious about it, that he doesn't always have it. You can always see his hand when he's speaking publicly. Which does speak to the point that he--

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: --the levels that he wants to go to when he is, pointing back to how the last administration handled questions about President Biden's health.

HABERMAN: Yes, look, I mean, as you said correctly, he has had this bruise for many, many, many months. We have seen a number of pictures of it. Sometimes he has makeup covering it. Sometimes -- last week, I was actually surprised to see it was just there.

He was clearly self-conscious about it, because in one of these Oval Office presentations, he was covering the bruised hand with the other hand, while he was sitting at the Resolute Desk. So, he was obviously aware of it. He is somebody who is very aware of his appearances.

The main point that you made, I think, is the bigger one, which is that he is the oldest person ever to be sworn into office. And again, he is not transparent about his health. The only explanation we've been given about what that bruise is, is that it relates to blood thinners, and to some kind of a vein condition that he has, and that he has shaken a lot of hands, and that he gets some kind of an injury on the back of it. The White House has been asked, Karoline Leavitt has been asked, if they will make the White House Doctor available. And I think they've suggested they would think about it. But they have yet to do that, to actually answer questions, not just put out a statement.

COLLINS: Yes, and obviously be able to go into a level of detail on that would be appreciated.

HABERMAN: Right.

[21:55:00]

COLLINS: Maggie Haberman, as always, love having your reporting, love having you on. Thanks for joining us.

HABERMAN: Thanks, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Up next here for us. The comments that we heard today, from the HHS Secretary, RFK Jr., an op-ed that he just wrote about restoring public trust in the CDC, days after you heard from several former directors, and high-ranking officials, here on this program, accusing him of endangering the health of all Americans.

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COLLINS: Tonight, the Health and Human Services Secretary, RFK Jr., is laying out his plans for the CDC. This stems, days after nine former directors at the agency accused him of endangering the health of all Americans.

[22:00:00]

In a newly-published op-ed, Secretary Kennedy writes, quote, The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was once the world's most trusted guardian of public health... But over the decades, bureaucratic inertia, politicized science and mission creep have corroded that purpose and squandered public trust. He says, his plan to restore trust at the CDC includes enhancing scientific rigor and modernizing its systems.

He'll have another chance, this week, to publicly lay out that plan, and also answer questions about his latest moves, as senators are expected to question him at a hearing, here in Washington, this Thursday. We'll bring you the highlights of that, on Thursday night.

For now, thanks so much for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.