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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: Israel's Strike In Qatar "Not A Decision Made By Me"; Kennedy Releases "Make Our Children Healthy Again" Report; Protests Erupt In Chicago Over Immigration Crackdown. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 09, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK MOORE, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, MANA NUTRITION: --children meeting their potential, when before we were losing them to this useless death. These aren't our kids. But in the great human family, they are our kids.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Mark Moore.
Be sure to tune in Saturday, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, for the "Champions For Change," one-hour special.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Breaking news tonight. As President Trump just spoke publicly, for the first time, since Israel struck inside Qatar, and says he wasn't informed beforehand.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening from Washington, where tonight President Trump is out to dinner, and rebuking one major U.S. ally for striking another U.S. ally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About the Israeli strike earlier today--
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I'm not thrilled. I'm not thrilled about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk about like the conversations you've had maybe--
TRUMP: I don't have to do that. I'm just -- I'm not thrilled about the whole situation. It's not -- not a good situation. But I will say this. We want the hostages back. But we are not thrilled about the way that went down today. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did they notify you in advance, Mr. President? Did Israel tell you in advance?
TRUMP: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you were caught by surprise, sir?
TRUMP: I'm never -- I'm never surprised by anything, especially when it comes to the Middle East.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you learn about this actually--
TRUMP: I'll be giving a full statement tomorrow. But I would tell you this. I was very unhappy about it, very unhappy about every aspect. And we got to get the hostages back. But I was very unhappy about the way that went down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The strike is unlike anything we've seen, and amounts to a stunning escalation in the Middle East, one that could potentially derail talks to end the war in Gaza, and free the hostages.
This was the scene, in the heart of Doha today, as people ran for cover, as Israel attempted to assassinate senior members of Hamas.
(VIDEO - ISRAEL TARGETS HAMAS LEADERSHIP IN QATAR STRIKE)
COLLINS: The attack is a major humiliation for a major U.S. ally.
Just how big of an ally is the Gulf nation? 10,000 American troops are stationed there, at the Al Udeid Air Force Base, the largest U.S. base in the Middle East, and it houses U.S. Central Command for the entire region.
At the White House today, the press secretary read a prepared statement, when faced with repeated questions about what the United States knew, and when.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I have a statement to read for all of you with respect to the Israeli strike in Doha. And here it is.
This morning, the Trump administration was notified, by the United States military, that Israel was attacking Hamas, which very unfortunately, was located in a section of Doha, the capital of Qatar. Unilaterally bombing inside Qatar, a sovereign nation and close ally of the United States, that is working very hard and bravely taking risks with us to broker peace, does not advance Israel or America's goals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Hours later, in his own words, the President added to the White House statement, by emphasizing, quote, "This was a decision made by Prime Minister Netanyahu, it was not a decision made by me."
Qatar's Prime Minister called the strike, terrorism and treachery, and sent a pointed message about what this means for the prospects of peace in the region.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN BIN JASSIM AL-THANI, PRIME MINISTER OF QATAR (through translator): They acted to sabotage every attempt to find opportunities for peace. Does the world need a clearer message than this? Who is closing this door to peace? Does the international community need a clearer message than this of who the bully in the region is?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: One place to watch tomorrow will be how the administration responds at the United Nations. The U.N. Security Council will meet on these strikes, which could leave the President torn between two very clear promises that he has made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I make this promise to you. My administration will always stand with Israel.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: We have never had a relationship with Qatar, as strong as it is now, you know that better than anybody, and they're very happy. And we're going to protect you. We're going to protect you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Democratic senator, Chris Murphy of Connecticut.
And Senator, thank you for being here.
Because obviously, this attack was unprecedented, to watch this play out. Obviously, Qatar was completely caught off guard by this. Do you believe that, ultimately, the goal here, which the White House described, is a worthy one, do you believe this strike by Israel was justified, in your view?
[21:05:00]
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, it's a clear violation of international law.
But I also think it's important to step back here and understand why Hamas exists inside Qatar, because it would shock a lot of people to know that Hamas has political representation inside Qatar, inside Doha. This is a U.S. ally. It also probably would shock people to know that the Taliban, a long-time mortal enemy of the United States, also has political representation inside Qatar. But that's because Qatar, historically, often at the request of both the United States and Israel, has operated as an intermediary, between these really dangerous groups, and legitimate countries like the United States and Israel. In fact, it was Benjamin Netanyahu that requested Qatar step in and help finance humanitarian operations, inside Gaza, have a relationship with Hamas prior to October 7th.
And so, Qatar has been a key intermediary, trying to negotiate the release of the hostages and the end of the war in Gaza. They were the intermediaries between the United States and the Taliban and the first Trump administration.
So, people need to understand that it has often been Israel and the United States that has asked Qatar to play this role. And what do they get for trying to broker peace? They get air strikes which are clearly a violation of international law, and get us much further away from any deal to end the war, and to return the hostages inside Gaza, which is what the people of Israel want, and what the people of the United States want. End to this war, and the hostages to come home.
COLLINS: Does that mean you think that we may see them no longer play that role as a key mediator here, because of these strikes today by Israel?
MURPHY: Well, I mean, if this is the price that Qatar pays? I mean, air strikes in their sovereign territory, of course, it's going to make them step back and question whether they should play that role.
It's a dangerous role. Obviously, they have been subject to criticism, all around the world, by many in the United States, for having a relationship with Hamas or with the Taliban. But somebody has to be talking to the other side of this conflict. No matter how dangerous and evil Hamas is, if you want an end to the hostilities, you've got to be talking to both sides.
So, I don't know what the discussions are in Doha today.
COLLINS: Yes.
MURPHY: But obviously, they are going to have a lot of reason to step back from being a negotiator.
COLLINS: Do you find it believable that President Trump did not know beforehand?
MURPHY: Oh, I don't know. I mean, there certainly have been a number of things that Israel has done, over the course of the last six months, that they have not informed the Trump administration of. So, in general, I don't believe anything that Donald Trump says. So, I can't tell what's true and what's not. But it wouldn't be inconsistent with prior behavior, by the Israelis, to take an action without informing the Trump administration.
COLLINS: Obviously, there's a U.S. Air Base there that -- or a U.S. base there that changes the calculus here. I mean, there are -- there are U.S. forces in the region. And so, obviously, this is something that they've been watching.
Can I ask you, sir, about some breaking news that is coming in to CNN tonight. We are told that Polish and NATO aircraft have been scrambled, and the Warsaw International Airport has been closed, because there are reports of Russian drones flying over Poland.
We have not been able to independently verify these reports. Do you have anything on this? Have you been briefed, or heard anything credible, on whether or not this is happening tonight?
MURPHY: No, I have not. This is the first time hearing of it.
Obviously, we have had, in the past, a number of instances, where Poland has been in the crossfire of the war between Russia and Ukraine, debris falling on Polish territory. Poland, of course, has done heroic work in being a transit hub for material into -- into Ukraine, and that, of course, puts them in the crosshairs in the Kremlin.
But no, I have not received any briefing about that news.
COLLINS: If this is accurate, what does that say to you, if this is something that the Polish -- I mean, we're hearing from the Operational Command there that says that they're fully prepared for an immediate response. If Russian drones violated Polish airspace, what do you believe the United States should do in response?
MURPHY: Well, let me get briefed on that, before I start engaging in hypothetical responses. That obviously would be incredibly serious if there were Russian aerial assets flying over a NATO country. So, probably not smart for me to engage in speculation, before having a briefing on it.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: Understandable, Senator. And obviously, any information on that that you can bring us, we would appreciate.
Can I also ask you about what else we heard from the President on tonight? His first time in front of cameras today, in front of reporters. He reacted to Congress, getting its hands on what has now been described as the birthday book of Jeffrey Epstein. It was a trove of documents handed over by Jeffrey Epstein's estate to the House Oversight Committee.
Of course, that birthday book that had a letter alleged to be from Donald Trump. He's denied that it's his signature. And this is what he told reporters just a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's not my signature, and it's not the way I speak. And anybody that's covered me for a long time know that's not my language. It's nonsense. And frankly, you're wasting your time. All you do is trying to get off the great success of D.C. and about 200 other things we've done that are so successful. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of the President's response now that we have been able to actually see that document, that was allegedly given to Jeffrey Epstein about 20 -- over 20 years ago?
MURPHY: I guess I just can't believe that we are still even talking about this, as if it's a question. I mean, I take a lot of pictures of my kids, and there are more pictures of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein than there are of my two children together. I mean, these guys were close friends. Allegedly, they were best friends. And it isn't as if we don't have overwhelming visual evidence that Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump spent unbelievable amounts of time together.
And of course, he is trying to cover up and hide his involvement in this scandal, or the White House wouldn't be doing daily hand-to-hand combat, in the House of Representatives, trying to suppress the Epstein files.
So yes, this new revelation, this new birthday card, looks pretty consistent, frankly, with every other piece of evidence that we have, overwhelming evidence, testimony from people who know them, that confirms the two of them were close friends. They spent a lot of time, talking to each other, about their -- their interests, which seem to potentially include interests that ended up getting Jeffrey Epstein put in jail.
COLLINS: When the White House says, That's not the President's signature. And also that novelty oversized check that there's a picture of Jeffrey Epstein holding, that has allegedly Trump's signature at the bottom of it. The White House said today, it's a very famous signature, That's also not his signature. Do you find that believable?
MURPHY: Well, no, I don't find it believable, but it's kind of like, who cares? Like, I've seen 3,000 pictures of the two of them together. I've heard multiple testimony from people, who know them both, to say that they were incredibly close, spent lots of time together.
So, I just sort of feel like this is already decided. We know that the two of them had a very close relationship. There's no way that you are as tight as the two of them were, without Donald Trump knowing exactly what that lunatic, what that evil man, was up to.
And the files, I think, clearly show some level of involvement. If they didn't, Donald Trump wouldn't be using so much of his political capital to try to cover it all up.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, he's not been accused of wrongdoing here.
But when the White House was asked today of what it is exactly that they are calling a hoax, she -- Karoline Leavitt pointed the blame back to your party. I want you to listen to the answer that she gave to Maggie Haberman tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So what is the theory, since these documents came from the Epstein estate? Who is -- who is, I guess, in your view, faking these documents?
LEAVITT: I did not say the documents are a hoax. I said the entire narrative, surrounding Jeffrey Epstein, right now, that is absorbing many of the liberal cable channels, on television, is a hoax. That is being perpetuated by opportunistic Democrats, like Ro Khanna and the others whom you saw on that press conference, outside of Capitol Hill, who are trying to push this hoax against the President of the United States.
HABERMAN: What exactly is the hoax? I'm just trying to understand, what's fake, what's fake is not the documents that--
LEAVITT: The hoax is the Democrats pretending to care about victims of crime, when they do not care about victims of crime, when they have done nothing to solve crimes, when they have done nothing to lock up child pedophiles and child rapists across the country.
HABERMAN: If he didn't sign these -- if you said he didn't sign the birthday card, he didn't do this, he also didn't do the check. Those were in documents from the estate. So what is the working theory as to why he's in them or--
LEAVITT: The President has one of the most famous signatures in the world, and he has for many, many years. You know that, Maggie. You've covered him for a long time, long before he assumed this office, when he was a businessman in New York. The President did not write that letter. He did not sign those documents. He maintains that position, and that position will be argued in court by his lawyers. The President is very confident he's going to win this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: So, she says that Democrats are pretending to care about victims of a crime when they do not care about them, and they've done nothing to lock up pedophiles and rapists across the country.
What's your reaction to that, Senator?
MURPHY: Well, I guess, it just comes down to, like, very simple premise here. Release the documents. I mean, if it's all a hoax and there's nothing to be afraid of in those documents, just release them.
But we're not idiots. The amount of time that the White House is spending, trying to suppress the release of the documents, right? We have reporting that they are literally going member to member, in the House of Representatives, trying to stop people from signing that discharge position, tells you that there's something pretty bad, in those documents, documents that even in that exchange, Karoline Leavitt admits are not a hoax.
So, I just think there's a simple way to litigate this question she's raising. Just let everybody see what's in those documents.
COLLINS: Senator Chris Murphy, thank you for your time tonight.
MURPHY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. It's a rare scene that you don't often see. The President out to dinner, here in Washington. Things were loud. At one point, he was confronted by protesters. There were supporters outside the restaurant. That exclusive video just coming into CNN, right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For the first time this term, President Trump is dining out in Washington, D.C., right now. CNN has obtained video of what the President was greeted with, inside the restaurant tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vance, how are you doing?
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Hey? It's all good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.
VANCE: Happy to see you.
(PROTESTERS PROTESTING)
VANCE: Enjoy your dinner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(PROTESTERS PROTESTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You can hear some protesters in the background yelling, Free D.C. and Free Palestine.
Before the President and his entourage entered the restaurant, you could hear supporters, outside the restaurant.
Dining with the President, as you could see there, Cabinet officials, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, the Vice President, JD Vance as well.
My inside sources tonight are:
Jeff Mason from Reuters.
And the former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree.
It's great to have you both back. Jeff Mason, obviously this is not something you normally see every day, with President Trump going out to restaurants. Admittedly, he's about a block and a half from the White House, so he's--
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: It's really close.
COLLINS: As we both know, we've probably walked there from--
MASON: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: --from the White House before.
But it does say that, as the President is kind of trying to portray this takedown or takeover of Washington, D.C., why he's going out there tonight.
MASON: Yes, I mean, he's wanting to illustrate the point that he's been making for weeks now, which is the suggestion that his bringing in the National Guard has really cleaned up Washington, D.C., and reduced crime entirely. And going out, I mean, he said to me, on Sunday, I think, in a gaggle, at Joint Base Andrews, that, Jeff, you could go out for dinner. And anyway, the--
COLLINS: I assume you've been going out to dinner now.
MASON: I do go out to dinner, in fact. And I also told him that night that there's still crime in D.C., and his response to me was, Well, not much. So, in general, this is an issue that he feels passionately about, and going out for dinner tonight is one way of illustrating this.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously it's a pretty safe area. It's not that far from the White House, Tom.
But this is kind of the argument that the White House has been making. I mean, Karoline Leavitt, when she came out to the briefing today, was not only talking about the numbers, here in D.C. They were talking about the murder that we were covering here, last night, on the show with you, in North Carolina, as well, as part of this kind of image that they are projecting, as they're still also debating, potentially, trying to mirror something like this. Obviously, it will be more difficult in other cities in the United States.
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, and look, I think this is just a way for the President to attempt to show that his crackdown in D.C. is working.
He was saying, People have gone out to restaurants who haven't gone out in four years. I mean, he might be included in that group, potentially, because he is not normally someone who dines frequently at D.C. restaurants. So, I think this is his way signaling, This is a new day.
No surprise, there were people heckling. D.C. is a political city, who are kind of on edge right now in many respects. So doesn't surprise me that that was the reaction. But look, the President got the visuals that he wanted of him going out to a restaurant and dining in this new city.
COLLINS: Well, and Jeff, well as the President was going in, he stopped before the cameras. We showed that he was talking about Jeffrey Epstein and the documents that are now in the hands of Congress, that came from the Jeffrey Epstein estate. What stood out to you about what the President had to say, as he's continuing to deny that that's his signature in that book?
MASON: Well, a couple of things.
Number one, he called it nonsense. He said, That's not my language, it's not my signature. So, he's suggesting that A, that the signature is false, which the White House has said already, and B, that it's just not something he would write.
Then he was also asked whether he would meet with the victims of Epstein. Lawmakers, last week, did. And so, that's been a question as well. And he said, it's not something that's been suggested and it's not something that he's thought about.
COLLINS: Yes, which is something Marjorie Taylor Greene had suggested to the President, last week. She says she personally did. He said tonight that no one has brought that up to him.
But I wonder, as you listen to the White House answers here, Karoline Leavitt specifically pointed to the argument that Trump's team is making in court. They are suing The Wall Street Journal over initially reporting on this story. But that argument in court has been that that letter was nonexistent. Today, they were saying those signatures weren't his.
But when Maggie Haberman asked that great, pointed question about, What is the hoax here? Is it the documents? They said, No, it's not the documents.
It's kind of been this very muddled message over, Are the documents real? Is the signature real? What's real, what's not? From the White House.
DUPREE: The hoax is evolving.
[21:25:00]
I think what's going on here, look, is that this is a document that has been buried in the Epstein birthday book for decades. And so, the Trump administration is in the difficult position of trying to argue that someone, back in 2005 or wherever, created a forged document with the future president's signature, and then left it in the birthday book where it sat untouched for 20 years, until all of a sudden it's released. It's a difficult argument to make.
COLLINS: When Trump was a Democrat, by the way, 20 years ago, when he and Jeffrey Epstein were--
(CROSSTALK)
DUPREE: That just adds to the complexity.
And look, this veracity of this document may be litigated in Trump's lawsuit. Who knows? But as a litigator, I can tell you, there are ways you can ascertain the truthful -- or the legitimacy of handwriting. I mean, you can hand -- have handwriting experts. You can ink-date the document. There all sorts of things you can do, to try to figure out if it's legitimate. Maybe we'll see that happen. Maybe we won't.
MASON: Which, by the way, Karoline Leavitt said, on behalf of the White House, that they would welcome. So, it's kind of a challenge. But the -- I believe it was -- one of the congressmen said--
COLLINS: Comer, I think, he said--
MASON: Comer. Thank you.
COLLINS: --it wasn't necessary.
MASON: He said, We're not going to spend money or time on exploring something that's 20-years-old.
COLLINS: We shall see.
Jeff Mason. Tom Dupree. Great to have both of you here.
Up next. I'm going to speak with Senator Bernie Sanders. He'll join me live. After we saw that report today from the Health Secretary, RFK Jr., about making our children healthy again. What does he have to say about that report? And also, remember when that fiery questioning of RFK happened, last week? Senator Sanders was there. We'll talk to him about it, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., unveiled his Make Our Children Healthy Again report today, that includes a 20-page strategy document that focuses on food, lifestyle changes, pesticides and screen time.
It's slim on details, though, on the next steps that the administration may take to keep your kids healthy. But it does signal more changes are coming. Also, when it comes to vaccines. The report says the HHS will work with the White House on a new vaccine framework that will ensure, quote, "America has the best childhood vaccine schedule," and ensures "Scientific and medical freedom."
Kennedy, obviously, is a longtime vaccine critic. That's a known position of his. But it's also one that has put him at odds, at times, with his boss, who oversaw one of the largest vaccine efforts in U.S. history, and said last week that there are vaccines that work, quote, Pure and simple, a comment that Secretary Kennedy was asked about today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think you have to be very careful when you say that some people don't have to be vaccinated.
Look, you have vaccines that work. They just, pure and simple, work.
REPORTER: I was wondering, Secretary, if you could respond to what the President said on Friday on the same note here. He said, There are vaccines that just work pure and simple.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: I agree with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight for more on this, Independent senator of Vermont, Bernie Sanders.
And Senator Sanders, it's great to have you here.
Because after that very contentious hearing, last week, that happened on Capitol Hill, you accused RFK Jr. of endangering children, across this country. Does anything in today's report change your mind on that?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Look, some things that Kennedy is saying make absolute sense.
That we want our kids to eat healthy foods. Absolutely. But by the way, if we're going to do that, we have to address the crisis of healthy foods in supermarkets being outrageously expensive. I don't know that he got into that.
The idea that our kids should exercise. The idea that our kids should not be consuming enormous amounts of sugar. I think there is no disagreement about that.
But when you talk about making America and our children healthy, and you throw 15 million people off the health care they have, by a trillion dollar cut in Medicaid, in order to give a huge tax break to the 1 percent? When you talk about raising premiums for people on the Affordable Care Act, very, very high, which means that people are simply not going to be able to go to the DACA (ph)? That ain't making America healthy. The truth of the matter is, according to a number of studies, tens of thousands of people are going to die, as a result of that.
COLLINS: Well, one thing that stood out to me from their report is that part of it calls for making sure there's whole healthy food, through government-funded SNAP nutrition program for low-income Americans.
Obviously, the President just signed legislation that would cut SNAP benefits--
SANDERS: Massive cuts in nutrition.
COLLINS: --for a lot of people.
SANDERS: Absolutely. Look, so they--
COLLINS: So, do those seem contradictory to you?
SANDERS: Oh, I think maybe. Of course, it's contradicting. Massive cuts in nutrition programs, and they're talking about making decent food available to the kids? Of course, there's a contradiction.
Look, the bottom line here is we are the only major country on Earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a human right. You want to make America healthy? You do what every other major country does. Pass the Medicare for all single-payer system.
Number two, we are spending twice as much per person on health care as the people of any other country. You want to make America healthy? Have the guts to take on the insurance companies, and the drug companies, who are ripping us off, every single day, substantially lower the cost of health care in America. Those are some of the things we can do.
COLLINS: Well, there was the executive order that the President signed tonight, when it comes to something that I think you and Kennedy agree with, at least in theory on, which is drug advertisements on television.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: And Secretary, Kennedy was touting this outside the White House tonight. The President wants drugmakers to disclose all side effects.
You've introduced legislation to ban prescription drug ads.
SANDERS: So -- you ever see those side effects on TV?
COLLINS: Mm-hmm.
SANDERS: I mean, they give you three hours' worth of all the ailments you have if you take the drug. That's fine to disclose the side effects. But we are one of two nations, two nations in the entire world, that allow that kind of pharmaceutical industry advertising.
[21:35:00]
The result of that is people go to their doctors, Oh. Doctor, I need this medicine.
And the doctor says, Well, you may not.
But I saw it on television, I need it.
And that is what the -- what the pharmaceutical industry wants to have. In my view, we should ban that advertising, absolutely. COLLINS: So, that's an area where you and the Secretary agree?
SANDERS: We -- no, he's talking about making more information available. I'm talking about banning it.
COLLINS: Banning it outright.
The one thing today that we did just get some news tonight. You're the Ranking Member on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. It just announced a hearing, next week, your Chairman did--
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --Senator Bill Cassidy, with the ousted CDC Director who was fired by Secretary Kennedy and President Trump, Dr. Susan Monarez.
What questions do you have for her, next week?
SANDERS: Well, I mean, first thought, when Kennedy was before our committee, he basically said she's a liar. That's number one.
And then he said something really remarkable. He said, I asked her if she was trustworthy, and she said, No. Well, I have fired a number of people in my life. Nobody has ever told me that, Hey, Bernie, I'm just not trustworthy. So, I think we want to talk about that.
But more importantly, what we want to talk about is Kennedy's views on vaccines. There's a lot of back and forth, and every other day he's saying something else.
Here is the bottom line. I just did an event today with probably 50 doctors. Vaccines are safe. Vaccines are effective. Vaccines have saved over a period of years, tens and tens of millions of lives around the world. There is nobody in the -- very few people in the scientific or medical community who disagree with that.
And one of the great crises we are facing, as a nation, right now, is we have a Secretary of Health and Human Services, who's literally undermining faith in vaccines. And that is one of the reasons why Trump should ask for his resignation.
COLLINS: Can I also ask you about what's happening inside the Democratic Party, New York City, especially? We saw Chuck Schumer today, the Minority Leader, meeting with Zohran Mamdani, who is the Dem candidate for mayor in New York today. He came out of that, he said they had a good meeting, that they know each other well, we're going to keep talking. He did not endorse Mamdani yet, though.
SANDERS: Well, this is the way I look at it. I think it's no great secret that the Democratic Party is struggling right now. According to polls, they're probably at the lowest point that they've been in a very long time.
And the reason for that, in my view, is that at a time when we have more income and wealth inequality, than we've ever had in the history of our country? I don't know if you noticed. I'm sure you did. That Tesla is now proposing to make Elon Musk a trillionaire. He's going to get a nice, Doing a good job, give them 800 or 900 billion dollars, all right? Which is insane.
So, you got 60 percent of our people living paycheck to paycheck. We have the highest rate of childhood poverty and senior poverty of any major country on Earth. You got half of older workers have nothing in the bank as they face retirement. You got a quarter of our seniors trying to get by on $15,000 a year or less.
Have the Democrats really been saying, You know what? Maybe, maybe we got to deal with this issue of income and wealth inequality. Maybe we have to take on the corporate greed, so that we don't have an economy in which the very rich get richer, while wages for the last 50 years for workers have been stagnant. All right? So that's the basic problem.
Democratic Party has got to make a choice. Do they go with their wealthy campaign donors, very wealthy contributors?
COLLINS: You think they're scared to endorse Mamdani?
SANDERS: Or do they stand with the working-class?
Let me talk about Mamdani. I was just there with him the other day. This is a guy who starts a campaign for mayor. You know what he was in the polls? 2 percent, all right? He wins. Wins by a lot.
He has over 50,000 volunteers, people enthusiastic about his campaign. He brings out people, registers all kinds of new people. Brings out non-traditional voters. Now, if you were a Democratic leader, in a party which is now in the doldrums, you would be jumping for joy, Oh my god, this is just the guy we want, I want to see this all over the country.
But the five major New York State Democratic leaders have yet to endorse him. That is, to me, absurd. How do you have -- be a Democratic leader, and not endorse (ph) the Democratic candidate for mayor, who ran an extraordinary campaign? That's pretty crazy stuff.
COLLINS: Do you believe they're scared to endorse him?
SANDERS: I think that money speaks, and Mamdani has made it clear -- I don't know if you saw the paper today. You have the billionaire class in New York City at a meeting, they just met today, sitting around, saying, All right, we are prepared to do -- spend as much money as we can, in order to beat Mamdani.
So, what you have is an oligarch, oligarchy group in New York. But you know what they're worried about? They're not just worried about Mamdani.
If Mamdani wins in New York, the idea will go all across the country, that, in fact, you can take on the oligarchs, and you can beat them. That, at the end of the day, grassroots organizing, ordinary people, working-class people, standing up and fighting back, are more powerful than the oligarchs and all of their money. [21:40:00]
That is what the oligarchs are afraid of. That's what the Republicans are afraid of. That is what I fear the Democratic leadership is afraid of.
COLLINS: Do you think Trump's attempt to interfere in the race will have impact?
SANDERS: I hope and expect that it will have not the impact that Trump wanted. I mean, I think that if Trump is working with Cuomo, how crazy is that? I mean, it just confirms everything that many of us have been saying. That you got, you know, the oligarchs do not want to see candidates who represent the working-class. So, it's a very important election, and it goes beyond New York City. This is of national significance.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time tonight, as always.
SANDERS: Thank you very much.
COLLINS: Much appreciated.
Up next here. We're going to speak to two members, bipartisan members of the Problem Solvers Caucus. They just came back from the southern border. What they saw, and their response to the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, protesters in Downtown Chicago are slamming what is being called Operation Midway Blitz. The Trump administration is ramping up its immigration crackdown there.
We've heard from the Governor, Illinois governor, JB Pritzker, who is widely viewed as a potential 2028 presidential candidate, saying this about it, in Chicago today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): Well, let me be clear that if I pick up the phone and call Donald Trump, that will become part of a case in court, that I somehow was calling him for help. And therefore, it will become predicate, to him sending military troops into the State of Illinois.
If I called him, I would say exactly what I have said to all of you. ICE needs to take it down about three notches, and we need Tom Homan to focus on something other than his failures in Illinois.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My congressional sources tonight are the Co-Chairs of the Problem Solvers Caucus, who have just returned from a bipartisan trip to the U.S. southern border.
Democratic congressman, Tom Suozzi of New York.
And Republican congressman, Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.
And it's great to have you both here.
Congressman Suozzi, I mean, obviously you just got back. I know that you talked about what you saw and learned down there, when it comes to cartels.
But on what we heard from the Governor there, saying -- criticizing Tom Homan, the Border Czar. Do you agree with his sentiment there? Or do you think that the administration has a point?
REP. TOM SUOZZI (D-NY): I think the administration is misdirecting their focus right now. We need to focus on the southern border.
The President was right when he said, We need to secure the southern border. President was right when he said, We need a whole-of- government approach, with the Border Patrol, and the military, and the CIA, and the FBI, to go after the cartels. The President was right when he said, We need to deport violent criminals.
But now, we're squandering that success by going after people that have been here for 10, and 20, 30 years, who have not committed any crimes. We're scaring people. We're breaking up families. We're raiding businesses. That's not what the people are looking for.
The people want to secure the border. I think we should fix the broken asylum system, and we should figure out how to deal with the people that have been here for decades, otherwise obeying the law, working six days a week, and go to church on Sunday.
Let's work together. Let's stop making Democrats and Republicans enemies of each other. Let's team up together, and go after the real problem, the real enemy, which are the cartels.
COLLINS: And obviously, you talked about the cartels. I know, one thing you said is that they were actively encouraging people to cross over the border to come to the United States. What else did you see on your visit there?
REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): Well, Tom, and I've been there several times. Every time we go, we see something different. The situation has changed and very dynamic, obviously. And they have made a lot of progress, recently. In terms of coordination, there was a southern border Intelligence Center we had the chance to meet. I think that was very eye-opening for both of us.
I've been to the El Paso Intelligence Center, which is DEA-focused. This one was a true fusion taskforce of CIA, FBI, NSA, the military, every single component, using SIGINT, HUMINT, all of our capabilities to track these narco-terrorists. And it was very, very impressive. In fact, we came out feeling very sure that they have a good handle on the problem. SUOZZI: We have to understand that the cartels are sophisticated criminal enterprises. And I believe -- I believe this more now than ever, that part of their surge of people to the southern border was to distract the U.S. government's resources, from actually stopping them from smuggling drugs and doing sex trafficking, where they're making billions of dollars, every quarter, and screwing up the United States of America in the process.
FITZPATRICK: Yes.
SUOZZI: And we need to get back in the game and focus on beating those cartels.
COLLINS: But when it comes to that, I think there's been a question in, and what the administration has touted as the success at the southern border, and what that has looked like. They were just talking about it today at the White House press briefing, and the raids that we have seen happening in other cities. Tom Homan was out defending it today.
But the question of what was promised to voters, on the campaign trail, and whether or not what they've seen happening, in places like Los Angeles, with the Supreme Court just greenlighting the roving raids there, for now, if that was the same thing that they were talking about on the campaign trail, where they were saying, We're going to go after the worst of the worst.
FITZPATRICK: Yes, and that's -- they should focus on the worst of the worst. We said today--
COLLINS: But do you believe they're doing that?
FITZPATRICK: I think they're -- I think they're going beyond that, and I wish they wouldn't. I think they should exclusively prioritize the worst of the worst. I think we need to use our brains, when it comes to border security, and use our hearts when it comes to immigration enforcement.
What the President had talked about throughout and continues to say, is, deport the worst of the worst, the dangerous, violent criminals. Somehow, in the execution phase, that is not happening. They going beyond that. And it's one of the many things that Tom and I agree on.
SUOZZI: We don't even know--
[21:50:00]
FITZPATRICK: Use your -- use your heart when it comes to enforcement, right? Not all people that are in this country illegally are monolithic. They're not all the same. There are some people that come into this country to do our country harm. There are other people that come into this country to flee oppression, or for economic opportunity. They have to be segregated out, and not treated all the same.
SUOZZI: We don't even know the people that are being detained right now, what the real number is. Is it 30 percent, is it 60 percent of the people have no criminal record whatsoever? They are undocumented, or they may be undocumented, I should say, but they don't have any criminal record.
So, when the President is out there saying, We have to go after the violent criminals? We should be applauding him for that. But when we're going after families and people that are working every single day? That doesn't make any sense. That's bad for business. That's bad for local law enforcement. And that's bad for our human sensibilities of breaking up families.
COLLINS: Congressmen Tom Suozzi, and Brian Fitzpatrick, thank you both for joining us, after you got back from the border.
FITZPATRICK: You bet.
SUOZZI: Thank you.
COLLINS: Really appreciate that.
Up next here. In our CNN series, "Champions For Change," we're recognizing people who are quietly working behind-the-scenes, finding new ways to make life better for others. Up next, Laura Coates is going to share the story that she reported on, on the one-of-a-kind jazz experience that's changing people's lives.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: This week on CNN, we are recognizing "Champions For Change," men and women who are using their talents in areas like business, medicine, and music, to make life better for others.
Tonight, CNN Anchor, and our Chief Legal Analyst, Laura Coates, introduces us to her champion, Melissa Walker, who is empowering young people through jazz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two, ready, go.
(SAXOPHONE MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up was tough.
(SAXOPHONE MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Music was really like the main thing that helped me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Music can allow you to feel things.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was one of those students that really needed JAZZ HOUSE to give them a future.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jazz was the one place in society where I was celebrated for being Indian.
(MUSIC)
MELISSA WALKER, FOUNDER, JAZZ HOUSE KIDS: When you come to the JAZZ HOUSE, you see who matters most. Everyone.
(MUSIC)
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Melissa Walker founded JAZZ HOUSE KiDS, back in 2002, to try to bridge the gap in music education.
WALKER: Over 50 percent of the young people here, their families need some level of support. And for us, it's making sure kids have an instrument, they have a bus, they have tuition assistance.
(DRUM BEATS)
WALKER: Part of our mission is to make sure that those doors are swinging wide open.
(DRUM BEATS)
COATES: Hi.
WALKER: Could we visit you?
COATES: Can I hear a little bit of it?
WALKER: We allow far too many young people--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two.
(MUSIC)
WALKER: --to not have access to the very things that would unlock their greatness. My greatest reward is seeing lives changed and transformed.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Playing the saxophone has helped me in real life, with school, with friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think people just need that one person to like, believe in them and push you forward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was able to, you know, have direction and make it to college.
WALKER: Jazz just improves and boosts their achievement. You have to have that focus, set goals, manage your time, be able to make real- time life decisions.
(SAXOPHONE MUSIC)
COATES: My son Adrian is a saxophonist. My daughter Sydney plays the trumpet. I have seen within them, the confidence, the persistence, the improvement across other subjects in school, by being able to use the skills that they learned through music.
(SAXOPHONE MUSIC)
COATES: I want to take you back to when you were a kid. When you met jazz. Something was ignited within you.
WALKER: Well, I grew up in a family that loved music. It was Rhythm and Blues, and it was soul music. But when I heard the music of Billie Holiday, it was that pain, that emotion in that music, and that really became a journey of exploration for me.
(MELISSA WALKER SINGING)
COATES: The intergenerational communication that jazz provides is stunning.
WALKER: I always think of jazz as the only place where you can get an 8-year-old and an octogenarian, on the stage together, doing something productive.
COATES: Yes.
WALKER: The guiding principle here, at JAZZ HOUSE, is to be the best of you there that you can be.
(APPLAUSE)
WALKER: And if we can do that and do it together, which is what you do on the bandstand--
(MUSIC)
WALKER: --you're now watching democracy in action.
(CHEERING)
COATES: Wow. Great job.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And Laura Coates joins me now.
I mean, Melissa is amazing.
COATES: She's amazing. And these kids were amazing. They were so talented.
Occasionally, as a parent, I go to kids' performances, and I go, Oh, that was great.
[22:00:00]
No, these kids were so talented. And what I loved about it, talked about patriotism and this unique art form that was created here in America, jazz, and the way it unified so many people.
You had kids who even told me, Jazz became my parents when I had none, jazz became my vehicle, my bridge, my way of life. And it's about being able to be creative and spontaneous. And this was somebody who won that for everyone, she's a true champion.
COLLINS: That's so amazing.
Laura Coates, thank you for telling us her story.
COATES: Thank you.
COLLINS: I loved that.
And of course, be sure to tune in for "Champions For Change," the special, Saturday -- this Saturday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.
You can watch Laura Coates, here tonight, at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
