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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Charlie Kirk Shooting Suspect To Appear In Court Tomorrow; Trump Denies Netanyahu Told Him About Plans To Strike In Qatar; Former Epstein Prosecutor Maurene Comey Sues DOJ Over Firing. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 15, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: What made you want to speak publicly?
ENDRE GUNTER, SHOT TWICE DURING MN SCHOOL SHOOTING: Yes, I wanted to go out and speak, because I believe that we need, like, trained securities in schools, to protect, like, kids, protect all of us, so this doesn't happen in more schools. I believe we need, like, security guards in schools.
COOPER: Well, I'm glad, I mean, things have worked out as well as they -- as they can so far. And Endre, it's such an honor to talk to you. And Danielle, you as well. Thank you.
DANIELLE GUNTER, MOTHER OF MN SCHOOL SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Yes, thank you so much.
E. GUNTER: Yes. Thank you so much.
COOPER: A brave young man.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, an apparent confession from Charlie Kirk's suspected killer. As President Trump declares that he was radicalized online, but then clarifies that's just his opinion.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Federal and state law enforcement in Utah tonight are gathering evidence, at this hour, and building a case against the 22-year-old man, they say, assassinated Charlie Kirk in broad daylight.
Tonight, The Washington Post is also reporting that the suspect appeared to confess in an online chat, with Tyler Robinson sending a series of messages, per The Post, including one that reads, and I'm quoting now, Hey guys, I have bad news for you all. It was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for all of this.
CNN has not independently confirmed that reporting there.
But we are set to learn a lot more in the next 24 hours, when the state is going to formally file charges against Robinson.
In an unusual move, earlier today, we saw the FBI Director out on television, talking about the evidence, before the suspect has appeared in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: The suspect wrote it out saying, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it.
And I can report today that the DNA hits from the towel that was wrapped around the firearm, and the DNA on the screwdriver, are positively processed for the suspect in custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was from the FBI Director.
We also heard from the Deputy Attorney General, who said, tonight, it's not clear if federal charges will also be filed here.
But late this evening, I should note, in an interview with ABC News, we heard from the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, who said that federal charges should be expected, though she didn't elaborate on what those federal charges will look like, or when we should expect that they'll be filed.
All of this is ahead of that closely-watched moment, tomorrow, for what investigators have learned so far in their investigation.
As we also heard from the President, earlier today, for his take, inside the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It looks like he became radicalized over the internet, and it seems like he has wonderful parents, born in a wonderful neighborhood, smart guy, great boards, great marks, great student. And then he -- something happened to him over a fairly short period of time. Looks like he was radicalized over the internet, and it's radicalized on the left. He's a left.
By the way, when I say that, that's my opinion. I think he was radicalized online, based on what they're saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: After stating that it was just his opinion, there, the President then turned to his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, who was standing over his right shoulder, and told reporters this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I've always told parents, you got to watch what your kids are doing on the internet, what they're doing online, who -- what they're listening to, what they're reading. They're all online, they're all on their phones, all the time. Parents have got to monitor that. Because, this starts when you're young. This starts when you're young, when you listen to these groups, when you watch these shows, and parents have got to just be vigilant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, the suspect in this case is 22-years-old.
But the lack of clear answers that we're getting, and are waiting to see what exactly investigators have learned about this, in this case, hasn't stopped members of the Trump administration, as we heard from the President saying today, he would designate Antifa and other left- wing groups as domestic terrorists.
If that sounds familiar, and you've been following the Trump presidency, he also tweeted that he was doing that more than five years ago, during his first term in office.
Whether or not that was ever attempted, given there were legal questions about how that would be enacted, we did hear from the White House Deputy Chief of Staff today, saying that the full force of the federal government will be mobilized against those that they blame for Charlie Kirk's death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: We are going to channel all of the anger that we have over the organized campaign that led to this assassination, to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks.
It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have, at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, and throughout this government, to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie's name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Starting us off this hour.
CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller.
And also, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree.
And it's great to have both of your expertise here, because there are so many questions tonight as we're waiting for those state charges to be filed tomorrow.
And John Miller, obviously, when you hear from Stephen Miller there, he was speaking with the Vice President, JD Vance, who was hosting Charlie Kirk's podcast. And one, I will say, these are people who are very close to Charlie Kirk and are devastated by his death. You can see why they're so consumed by it, and why they're talking about it.
When it comes though, to what Stephen Miller said there, do investigators have any evidence that you know of, of an organized campaign that led to Charlie Kirk's assassination?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTEL ANALYST: No, and not at this point. Now, it's early in investigation. There's a lot to go through, in terms of electronics, computers, exploitation of different devices. But in the immediate sense, everything that has been briefed on the case indicates you have an individual, who appears to be acting alone. And where his ideology came from, and what his specific motive is, is still something that's coming into focus.
What's not coming into focus is that he was a member of a particular organization, or was receiving help or instruction from outside. That could change, but it's not the picture that's being briefed to people at the White House.
COLLINS: Yes. And speaking of being briefed, obviously, the President gets intelligence reports. He's being kept updated by the Attorney General, who was in the Oval today, the FBI Director, the Deputy Attorney General.
When he said that the shooter was radicalized online, and then I thought, you know, I -- when I was listening, I said, OK, that's news, we didn't know that. As have been stated that explicitly. Then he said it was just his opinion.
What are you -- what stands out to you from that, based on what you've heard from sources?
MILLER: Well, these are complicated cases. And when you look at the shooters, and you peel back through their lives, generally what you find is someone who is failing in life, who's looking to rewrite their life story, who's looking to strike out and do something bold and violent. And often, that is the driver, and what they're doing it in the name of comes later.
Now, our best clues in terms of motive, in this case, started with the etchings on the bullets, which contained some antifascist message, contained some gamer lingo, some memes. So, you had a mixed bag there. But let's start with the clearest part, which is an antifascist message. We have to do more work, looking at those court documents, tomorrow, when they're public, and following along with what the FBI is seeing in terms of, Where was he on the internet, what were the influences?
COLLINS: And do you expect we will learn a lot from that tomorrow?
MILLER: I expect that they will want to make a good showing of all of their best evidence to the judge, to make sure that they have probable cause to have the case bound over for trial. And I expect, there will be some things in there, we don't know, although the FBI Director gave out a lot of information today.
COLLINS: Yes, and on that note, Tom Dupree, given your experience at the Justice Department, we did hear from the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, tonight, on whether or not federal charges will be happening here. That's been an open question.
I'd like for you to listen to what he said, and then we'll talk about what the Attorney General herself said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, it depends on if there's a federal charge. So look, the federal charge, there's not that many murder charges that are federal. And--
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Very few.
BLANCHE: Very few. And so, look, there's stalking, there's -- there's certain -- there's certain deprivation of rights charges that we -- that we possibly could bring. But that goes after going through all the evidence and trying to understand what would this man's motivation was, in doing what he did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He seemed to be kind of skeptical of whether or not there would be federal charges.
Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, said to ABC News, tonight, according to their write-up of the interview, that she seemed to say that we should expect federal charges here.
What are you -- what do you think we should be expecting?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, what the Deputy Attorney General was saying was classic law enforcement speak for, We're still gathering evidence and trying to determine whether or not it will support federal charges. That's what's going on here.
They don't have, at this moment, sufficient evidence to warrant federal charges. But to John's point, this investigation is just getting started, and I'm sure they will uncover considerably more evidence, in the weeks and the months to come, and there may ultimately be a basis for federal charges.
I think the interesting thing, tomorrow, is what we see in Utah's indictment, whether or not we do, in fact, see a speaking indictment that really tells a story, that it puts a lot more evidence on the table we haven't seen before.
[21:10:00]
I don't think this is a scenario, where Utah is going to be keeping a lot of evidence in reserve. They realize this document is going to spread instantaneously, around the world, and be read by everyone. So, I don't think they're going to be keeping things in reserve. I think they're going to take the evidence that they've developed so far and put it out there, for public viewing. COLLINS: OK, so we'll be waiting to see what that looks like, in addition to -- the other part that we heard from the President today was talking about just the overall response here. He was talking about the hecklers that were at the restaurant, in Washington, D.C., last week, when he went to dine out. Today, he seemed to imply that that was evidence of a criminal conspiracy.
This is what the President said in the Oval.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The people -- there were a lot of people in the restaurant. I went there to show how safe, and it was safe. I mean, the woman is just a mouthpiece, or she was -- she was a paid -- she was a paid agitator, and you have a lot of them. And I've asked Pam to look into that in terms of RICO, bringing RICO cases against the -- criminal RICO, because they should be put in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What went through your mind, Tom, when you heard that?
DUPREE: I'm sure it was disruptive, but I am not sure it's a RICO case. RICO has a statute that federal prosecutors love, because it provides for severe penalties. It enables you to basically dismantle a criminal organization.
And look, while I have no doubt that those hecklers agitated the President, bothered the President, disrupted him. Again, I didn't see from that video, at least, solid evidence of a RICO conspiracy, warranting an investigation by the Attorney General of the United States.
COLLINS: John, just before we go, can I ask you, given you are the former Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism in the NYPD? They have put together a threat assessment basically, in response to the Kirk killing. Given all the talk of left or right or where this is, do they seem to see a single ideology pattern emerging in this, from what you know?
MILLER: No. What they're saying, and this is something they've shared with private security chiefs around New York City, is rather than aligning with a single extremist ideology, malicious actors may adopt a personalized, hate-filled worldview drawn from a mix of beliefs.
Basically, what they're talking about is what we call the salad bar of grievances. And as you go through these different offenders, you find people who have tried a mix of different grievances, some of which aren't -- are even opposed to each other before they settle on one.
The struggle that they have at the narrative that there is a complex conspiracy is that Antifa is an organization with a boss and a rank structure, and the ability to control it. It is more of a movement, where people adopt different parts of that movement, and have acted on them. And, as Tom would say, it's very hard to do a RICO case against something that's not an enterprise. COLLINS: And obviously, RICO is what was used in Atlanta for the President and his allies.
John Miller, it's always great to have your reporting and your expertise.
Tom Dupree, you as well. Thank you so much.
And I should note, we heard from the President in the Oval Office today. And at one point, he was also asked why he lowered flags to half-staff, following Charlie Kirk's assassination, but has declined to do so for other victims of political violence, including a Democratic state lawmaker from Minnesota who was murdered alongside her husband, this summer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think it would have been fitting to lower the flags to half-staff when Melissa Hortman, the Minnesota House Speaker, was gunned down by an assassin as well?
TRUMP: I'm not familiar. The -- who?
REPORTER: The Minnesota House Speaker, a Democrat--
TRUMP: Oh.
REPORTER: --who was assassinated this summer, and the--
TRUMP: Well, if the Governor had asked me to do that, I would have done that, but the Governor of Minnesota didn't ask me. I didn't -- I wouldn't have thought of that. But I would have, if somebody had asked me. People make requests for the lowering of flag, and oftentimes you have to say no, because it would be a lot of lowering. The flag would never be up. Had the Governor of Minnesota asked me to do that, I would have done that gladly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump says if Governor Walz had asked him to lower the flags, after Melissa and Mark Hortman's murder, that he would have.
But back in July, when I asked the President, on Air Force One, if he planned to call the Governor, he told me he thought it would be a waste of time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Have you called the governor yet, or been able to speak to any of them?
TRUMP: I don't really call him. He appointed this guy to a position. I think the Governor of Minnesota is so whacked out. I'm not calling. Why would I call him? I could call him and say Hi, how are you doing? The guy doesn't have a clue. He's a mess. So, you know, I could be nice and call him, but why waste time? (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is Democratic senator, Tina Smith of Minnesota.
And Senator, thank you for being here.
What did you make there, of the President's response to that question?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): I'm -- honestly, I'm just sort of blown away by the callousness of his response. And I'm thinking, in this moment, about what we need is a universal condemnation of political violence, that that condemnation should transcend politics.
[21:15:00]
And yet, the President of the United States, I don't know whether he's just clueless, or whether he was pretending that he didn't remember who Melissa Hortman was, and then trying to deflect blame is exactly what we do not need in this moment. And this is a moment -- when the President is actively trying to gin up fear, by spreading disinformation, and his opinions, when he really is -- has no idea what is behind this tragic killing of Charlie Kirk.
COLLINS: Do you think if Governor Walz had called, that he would have lowered the flags?
SMITH: Oh, I mean, I can't imagine that that would have happened.
I mean, what was it that he said, Kaitlan? Oh, I -- you know, it's basically, I get called all the time to lower flags, and you can't do it for everyone. That is exactly what we do not need, in this terrible moment, in the country, when people are fearful, when they are feeling like the, basically, the foundations of our democracy are shaking, and they don't feel safe.
And no, I think it's outrageous to suggest that all he needed was a call from Governor Walz, that he would have done the right thing. I think that's ridiculous.
COLLINS: What would you like to see from President Trump instead?
SMITH: Well, I really think that what we have to do is to find some way of saying that, Regardless of who you are, if you commit an act of political violence, that we stand against it. The people who study these things will tell us that what happens over time is violence can be normalized, if it isn't immediately rejected as unacceptable. And that's not happening. That's not happening right now.
And in fact, what is happening is members of the President's administration are, basically, in this moment, saying things like, The Democratic Party is the party of murder. Stephen Miller said that Democrats are a -- are an extremist organization. So, they are ginning up fear and misinformation, in the moment when they should be doing exactly the opposite, and calling us to our higher angels. This is what President Bush did, after the terrible attacks on the World Trade Towers. It's what Governor Cox is attempting to do. It's what Jeff Flake and Gabby Giffords did in their commentary this weekend. That's what we need in this moment.
COLLINS: Speaking of those comments of Stephen Miller, the Deputy Chief of Staff, who is very influential in the West Wing, and also was close to Charlie Kirk. He was recounting a conversation they had recently, today.
Those comments that you referenced there, they were from three weeks ago. I want everyone to listen to Stephen Miller, in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: The Democrat Party does not fight for, care about, or represent American citizens. It is an entity devoted exclusively to the defense of hardened criminals, gang-bangers and illegal alien killers and terrorists. The Democrat Party is not a political party. It is a domestic extremist organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, that is quite the claim there, to call your entire party that, a domestic extremist organization.
SMITH: It's basically, he's saying that, millions and millions and millions of Americans are part of a domestic extremist organization. And this individual is not just some random person with an opinion. It is somebody who is a very powerful voice -- voice inside the White House.
And what is, I think, especially worrisome, in this moment, is that you have Stephen Miller saying those things, and then you also have the administration telling us that they are prepared to use the full force of the federal government to crack down on the -- on these leftist organizations. And who do they mean exactly? What does that look like exactly? That is exactly what happens, when authoritarians start to run rampant, and they basically use the power--
COLLINS: Who do you think they mean?
SMITH: I mean, they mean all of us. They mean Americans who don't agree with them.
When Stephen Miller says these things? When Donald Trump says these things? What I hear is, You are free to express your opinion, as long as you support my power. But if you don't, then we're going to come after you.
I mean, they're not even really being that subtle about it. And I think people have to really listen hard to this, and be ready to stand up to this, because it's a very scary moment.
COLLINS: One thing I've seen the White House point out are comments that Democrats have made, about Trump or his people in his administration. Do you believe, in this moment, given what you're saying here about what the country needs, that there are also elected Democrats who have gone too far in the way that they speak about their political opponents?
[21:20:00]
SMITH: I think that there probably have been people who have said things that they shouldn't have said. But that is true on both sides. And I do not think that the equivalency is really the issue here.
What you have here is the President of the United States, and the folks that are keeping him in power, that are supporting him, using this moment to try to figure out how they can crack down on their -- on the political opposition.
And what we should be doing is we should be saying, I respect your right to say what you believe, and I'm going to protect your right to say what you believe. That is the -- that is what free speech means in this country. And that is not what I hear Donald Trump, or Stephen Miller, or Elon Musk, or any of these folks, really standing up for, right now.
COLLINS: Senator Tina Smith, thank you for your time tonight.
SMITH: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We're seeing some companies firing employees for comments they've made about Charlie Kirk's murder. The Vice President today encouraged that to continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: So, when you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out. And, hell, call their employer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump told reporters today that he plans to speak at Charlie Kirk's memorial service, this Sunday, in Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I'm going on Sunday. We're taking a whole plane load and having -- I was invited on Saturday, but I said I'd rather save it for Sunday. You know, we're going to have a -- have a stadium, and I'll bet that stadium is going to be pretty packed, maybe completely packed. It's going to be big. But I'm going to be at the stadium, and I guess I'll say a few words.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Tens of thousands of Americans, Republican lawmakers, conservative influencers and activists are all expected to gather to honor Charlie Kirk's life and his legacy.
In the wake of his death, some of his allies are supporting an effort to punish people, who celebrate his murder online, by trying to get them fired from their jobs. Critics have argued, the movement is against Kirk's free speech advocacy, but it hasn't stopped some employers from taking action here.
We've seen several of the nation's major airlines, like Delta, American, and United, suspending employees over their social media posts. NASDAQ and the NFL's Carolina Panthers also fired people, as well as a number of public school districts and universities.
We heard from the Vice President, JD Vance, today, as he urged supporters to keep up the pressure, as he was hosting Kirk's show today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: When you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out. And, hell, call their employer. We don't believe in political violence, but we do believe in civility. And there is no civility in the celebration of political assassination. Get involved. Get involved. Get involved. It's the best way to honor Charlie's legacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight.
Scott Jennings is the former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush.
And Jamal Simmons is the former Deputy Assistant to President Biden.
And Scott, obviously, any celebration over someone's murder is disgusting, and it's clearly wrong. Do you think it's a fireable offense?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Well, I think it's up every institution to decide what kind of people they want working there.
I mean, in the case of some of these universities, they're taking taxpayer money. So taxpayers of say, Tennessee or South Carolina, are funding universities, who then employ people, who cannot control their emotions enough to stop themselves from going online and celebrating and glorifying a political assassination.
Beyond that, these people in education institutions, we entrust them to teach our -- teach students, to teach our children. And I'll be honest with you. If I thought there was a teacher teaching my children, who had it in their heart, that maybe we ought to tell the kids, political assassination is justified, in some case? I would want them gone immediately. So no, I'm not going to lose any sleep or cry any tears for people who harbor this violence in their heart, and who can't control their emotions enough, long enough to not go online and tell the world about it.
COLLINS: Jamal, what do you make of the comments that we're seeing from the Vice President, and others, on this?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN, CO-HOST, "TRAILBLAZE": Kaitlan, I think there's a difference between someone criticizing Charlie Kirk's views or someone celebrating his murder. I don't know that there are that many people who are really celebrating the murder. And maybe there's some of them who are, and they're disgusting, if they do.
COLLINS: There definitely are some people.
SIMMONS: Yes.
COLLINS: I guess the question is, how many there are? And, you know -- I mean, we've seen some of the posts, these people have gotten fired.
SIMMONS: Sure. And I think, I posted online that we should give people time to grieve. I think it's a very difficult time to have a fact- based conversation with people who are in emotional pain.
And so it's OK to say, Listen, let Charlie's friends and family have a few days to grieve his memory. We will have a lot of time to talk about what it is he believed, and go through his beliefs. And those people, like me, who disagree with him vehemently, in person and online, believe like we will have that discussion about Charlie's beliefs. But now is not the time while people are having their grief.
So, I think that's an appropriate way. I mean, one of the things I posted, which I got a little bit of grief for, from friends, was, Think about how you would feel someone you respected was murdered. That's what you should do. Do that same thing you would want people to do for you in that moment.
COLLINS: Yes, it says, obviously, a lot about them.
And Scott, I was thinking about this, as we were just talking to Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota. Because when Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered -- Hortman were murdered, in their home, we saw Senator Mike Lee kind of making light of it, on Twitter.
[21:30:00]
And Senator Smith actually confronted him in the hallway about it, because she thought the posts were so inappropriate, and basically argued that the position he's in, that he should not be posting things like that, in the wake of someone's death, someone's murder.
JENNINGS: Yes, look, I think when someone is murdered, particularly for those of us who are political actors, and we're in the political system, when someone's murdered, and for whatever reason? I don't know exactly what the motivations were of the guy in Minnesota. It sounds like he had some mental problems. But whatever, it doesn't really matter.
We should say, This is wrong. People should not be murdered. People who are in public service should not have to fear being murdered. And people like Charlie Kirk, who were doing nothing more than engaging in what we always say we should do, talk to each other and engage in civil discourse, they should not have to fear violent reprisals. That's what everyone should say.
But in the case of these people, who are being fired from their jobs, I mean, we're kind of -- we're kind of tiptoeing around it here. But I can read some of them out loud if you want.
These people were not online, saying, Well, I disagree with Charlie Kirk. They were online saying, The world is better off without him. They were online saying, his wife, in this case, She's a sick F-word for marrying him, I don't care about her feelings, we're better off living in a world without a disgusting psychopath. That's who we're talking about here.
And I'll tell you one more thing that's on my mind tonight, and conservatives everywhere. The idea that people are saying, Well, he was an extremist, or he was a racist, or he was a Nazi or a misogynist, whatever, therefore, we could get around to rationalizing it?
Charlie Kirk was a mainstream conservative Republican. He had views that are held by tens of millions of people, including more than half the country in the last election. So, if you're online, saying, This is justified? What you're actually saying is, Half the country I live in, there's some justification to commit violence or murder against them.
And that's what is concerning about the people who were doing this, and that's why I don't think anybody is losing any sleep about these folks not being able to teach our children.
COLLINS: Yes, and to be clear, I'm not tiptoeing around it. There are people who have been celebrating it. I think we were pretty blunt about that. And obviously, that's wrong and evil and just not right.
SIMMONS: Listen--
COLLINS: And on that, Jamal though, can I ask you? Because we were watching today, there was a vigil in Washington, last night, for Charlie Kirk.
Speaker Johnson was told today there was a count that fewer than a dozen Democrats were present at that. He responded, saying, I'm glad it was bipartisan. I wish more had participated. I'm not sure why they didn't. So I don't know what else we could -- we could do.
I should note, Trump did not go to that that vigil.
But do you think that more Democrats should have gone? SIMMONS: I think Democrats have to make that decision for themselves, whether or not to go.
It's OK -- listen, I don't think that we should interpret giving people time to grieve for Charlie Kirk, with saying people ought to be supportive of Charlie Kirk. They can have a very vehement disagreement with who he was, or what he stood for, I should say, and they may want to express that in whatever way they want to.
But the question then becomes the President's Deputy Chief of Staff came out today, and called the Democratic Party an extremist organization, after the President said that he was going to take action against extremist organizations.
So, the question arises in my mind, Is the President of the United States going to outlaw the Democratic Party? Is that where we're headed? Is the President of the United States going to unleash the Justice Department on the Democratic Party?
COLLINS: Is that your concern?
SIMMONS: It's absolutely a concern. This President has shown that he's willing to use the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies. He said that pretty much openly.
And now, his Deputy Chief of Staff, who is really the Policy Director of the White House, is calling the Democratic Party an extremist organization. It raises very real questions about a two-party democratic system in this country. Even though, obviously, we're all concerned about all the big issues the President raises, like crime and terrorism and those things, I don't think the Democratic Party is one of those organizations.
COLLINS: Jamal Simmons, and Scott Jennings, thank you both for being here.
Up next. My source has new reporting that the President did know, or was informed beforehand, about that recent Israeli strike inside a key U.S. ally, an hour before it actually happened. We'll tell you what the White House is saying, specifically, the President himself.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is emphasizing that Israel did not give him a heads-up about its plans to target Hamas leaders by bombing a key U.S. ally, Qatar, last week, despite what a new report suggests about what he knew beforehand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did Bibi Netanyahu speak to you directly to alert you that Israel was going to be striking--
TRUMP: No. REPORTER: --Hamas sites in Qatar?
TRUMP: No. No, he didn't. No, he didn't.
Yes, go ahead, please.
REPORTER: How did you -- how did you learn of it?
TRUMP: Same way you did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President was asked about that because Axios is reporting tonight, citing seven Israeli officials, who say, the Israeli Prime Minister did speak with President Trump before the attack happened, with one of those senior officials saying, quote, "If Trump had wanted to stop it, he could have. In practice, he didn't."
Of course, Israel's attack in Doha, last Tuesday, killed five Hamas members and one Qatari security officer, and not only rattled relations between the United States and Qatar, which has been a key mediator in the war against Hamas, but it also drew anger among Trump advisers, who were frustrated they weren't able to weigh in or warn the Qataris, they say, beforehand.
Joining me tonight is Axios' Barak Ravid, also a CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst.
[21:40:00]
And Barak, just, what are your sources saying about what exactly the Israeli Prime Minister said to the President beforehand?
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: Good evening, Kaitlan.
Well, at least -- at least three Israeli officials told me that Netanyahu called Trump, on Tuesday morning, around 08:00 a.m., to tell them that Israel is planning to conduct a strike in Qatar against Hamas leaders.
And I have to tell you that after I ran the story, I got a call from a fourth senior Israeli official that told me that the story was 98 percent accurate. When I asked him, What were the other 2 percent? He said, The call was not at 08:00 a.m. It was 07:45.
COLLINS: Wow. So basically saying, in a significant amount of time, before that strike happened?
RAVID: Yes, because the missiles, we know that at 08:51 a.m. Eastern Time, there were the first reports from -- out of Doha, about explosions in the Qatari capital, which means that if the call was at 07:45, it's really almost an hour, or it's more than an hour before, before the -- before the missiles hit.
COLLINS: Well, and that's important, because the White House's account has been Trump found out, they only would say, through the U.S. military. They wouldn't say how the White House found out, and then told Steve Witkoff, his envoy, who then called the Qataris. But the Qataris said they didn't get a call until 10 minutes after the attack was already underway.
So, what do you make of Trump's denial tonight? What do you -- what do you think is behind that?
RAVID: I don't know. I think there are more details about this morning, the morning of the strike, that we still don't know. Every day that will pass, I guess we will know more.
But I have to say, I think that many people inside the White House did actually learn about this strike from the U.S. military. I'm just not sure that President Trump was one of them, or -- I'm sure President Trump was not one of them. But many of the President's top advisers, among them, Secretary of State Rubio, and others, did not know, initially, about his call with Netanyahu.
COLLINS: I mean, that would be pretty remarkable, if Trump got that call from Netanyahu, telling him what was going to happen, and the Secretary of State was not told about it until it was actually happening.
RAVID: Yes, I think this was -- this was the case, and I think there are a lot of lessons, for the White House, to learn from this incident, not only about its relationship with Israel and with Qatar, and its Middle East policy, But about things that, at the moment, are not working well enough in the mechanisms, inside the White House, that have to do with how does the President take a phone call? Who is on the line? Who is not on the line?
How do you make sure that the foreign leader does not call the President and manipulate him, because there's nobody else who's an expert on this issue that can say, Well, this is not true. Mr. President, you should know what you just heard is not true.
And I think this is part of the problem of what happened a week ago.
COLLINS: Yes, he's having a lot of calls with world leaders on his phone.
Barak Ravid, as always, excellent reporting, and thanks for joining us.
RAVID: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also, other news coming out of the White House tonight, as Memphis is now bracing for the President's federal crime crackdown, as he announced today, he's sending in a task force that he says will be comprised of the National Guard troops, and law enforcement officials from multiple agencies, the FBI, ATF and ICE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This team will deploy the full powers of federal law enforcement agencies and enforcement generally to restore public safety and get dangerous career criminals off of our streets. We're going to get them off.
In 2024, Memphis had the highest violent crime rate, the highest property crime rate, and the third highest murder rate of any city in the nation. Other than that, they're doing quite well. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Alex Isenstadt, who is a Senior Political Reporter for Axios as well, is here tonight.
[21:45:00]
And obviously, Alex, there's questions about what this looks like today. I should note, this is going into Memphis. The Governor of Tennessee was inside the Oval Office today. So obviously, this is a very different dynamic that we're about to see play out, than what happened in Washington, for example, where initially, officials, local officials, resisted what the President was doing.
ALEX ISENSTADT, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes, it is a different dynamic, and Trump has also talked about sending troops to New Orleans, which also is in a Republican-governed state. So there's that as well.
What's interesting here is, is that Trump is making a big bet, which is that voters are going to be most focused on law and order issues. He's really focused on this right now.
And the question is, is when there are reports that inflation is increasing, polling showing voters are increasingly concerned about the economy. In a year from now, when the midterms are coming up, how are voters going to feel about that? Are they going to feel that the President did enough to address inflation, when he spent a lot of 2025 focused on law and order?
COLLINS: Yes, he says it's not an 80/20 issue, that it's higher than that. I guess we'll see actually what the voters say.
Alex Isenstadt, great to have you as always. Thank you so much.
ISENSTADT: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We're following a big lawsuit that is coming in. Longtime federal prosecutor, Maurene Comey, yes, of that Comey family, is suing the Trump administration over her abrupt firing. What she's saying she was told in a lawsuit?
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the Justice Department is facing a new lawsuit from an employee that it fired, Maurene Comey, the daughter of former FBI Director, James Comey, but also a federal prosecutor who pursued cases against Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
Maurene Comey says that she was never given any explanation for her termination, after almost a decade of positive performance reviews and promotions. She adds in her lawsuit that she learned of her firing in an email that was citing Article II of the Constitution, which broadly describes the President's powers.
And she then asked Jay Clayton, who was then serving as the interim United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, why she was being fired, to which Clayton responded, according to her new lawsuit, quote, "All I can say is it came from Washington. I can't tell you anything else."
My legal source tonight is Brendan Ballou, former Special Counsel at the Justice Department.
And Brendan, I wonder what you make, looking at this lawsuit, of the case that she has and how strong it is.
BRENDAN BALLOU, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, DOJ ANTITRUST DIVISION: Well, under existing law, it would be a slam-dunk.
It's obvious that Maurene Comey, who's a decorated federal prosecutor, as you said, she was involved in the Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell prosecutions, as well as the Sean Combs prosecutions, was apparently responsible for over 200 criminal convictions in her time at SDNY.
It's obvious that she wasn't fired according to the proper procedures and in violation of the protections that she has as a civil servant. So, under any ordinary time, it would be clear that she was fired illegally.
The question is, is she fired illegally under this reality? This administration and the Supreme Court are rapidly rewriting constitutional law, in terms of what protection civil servants have, and what powers the President has to fire those civil servants. So, a lot can change very quickly here.
COLLINS: So you're basically saying that because of the aggressive assertion of presidential power, that this White House is obviously prepared to standby. The President today was saying he's not a stranger to lawsuits that -- that it may actually have an impact on the outcome of what happens here.
BALLOU: Absolutely. So, across the board, this administration has been asserting an extraordinarily aggressive agenda, to empower the President to fire just about anybody in the executive branch.
Whether you're talking about the Democratic members of the FTC, Lisa Cook at the Federal Reserve, the members of the merit protection -- Merit Systems Protection Board, which actually handles civil service complaints like the one that Maurene Comey wouldn't (ph) ordinarily bring, and here, a federal prosecutor, like Maurene Comey herself.
This administration believes that it can fire just about anybody, for any reason, in the government. And I just want to make clear for viewers why this matters. Because the Department of Justice in particular, depends on being apolitical. And when a president can fire a prosecutor for any reason, including a partisan reason, it means that nobody has any reason to trust the Department of Justice, going forward. So, it is incredibly dangerous to the administration of justice, if the White House succeeds here.
COLLINS: Brendan Ballou, thank you for your time tonight.
BALLOU: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next here for us. The Democratic nominee here in New York, Zohran Mamdani, has just landed a key endorsement in the race for New York Mayor. But not all of them. We'll tell you why.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Before we go tonight, three things that you may have missed.
Tonight, a federal appeals court has just rejected President Trump's last-minute attempt to fire the Federal Reserve Governor, Lisa Cook. That comes amid those repeated allegations that she has engaged in mortgage fraud, allegations that have not yet been proven. The decision means that Cook can remain in her role for now. And of course, that's notable because we are just hours away before the Fed is going to meet on a potential interest rate cut. We'll see that tomorrow.
And also tonight, five new members have been named to the CDC's influential vaccine advisory committee. That panel is set to discuss the future of vaccines for COVID-19, measles, mumps, rubella and more. And it comes after the Health Secretary, RFK Jr., abruptly removed the entire committee, back in June, alleging that the panel was, quote, Plagued with persistent conflicts of interest.
[22:00:00]
And finally, tonight, New York Governor, Kathy Hochul, has now endorsed Zohran Mamdani for New York City Mayor, more than two months after his decisive primary win, and as other top New York Democrats, like the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, and the House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, have remained silent.
Explaining the move, in a New York Times Op-Ed, Governor Hochul said, quote, "In the past few months, I've had frank conversations with him. We've had our disagreements. But in our conversations... I heard a leader who is focused on making New York City affordable -- a goal I enthusiastically support."
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
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