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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Warns "There'll Be Others" Prosecuted After Comey; House Expected To Remain In Recess As Shutdown Nears; Jimmy Kimmel Blackout Ends As Local TV Giants Back Down. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 26, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BRETT MCGURK, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: But let me say, having worked on these issues. There's a lot to get from A to B, from that diplomatic framework to actually having an international force ready to come in. So, there's some time to go here. But I think the objective for that meeting, from the American side, is for Netanyahu to fully endorse and embrace this new initiative from President Trump.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes. Well, we'll see.
Brett McGurk, thanks.
MCGURK: Thank you.
COOPER: And that's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. Have a great weekend.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: President Trump's retribution campaign just getting started? What he said, when CNN asked him if there is more to come.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
One down, but how many more to go? That is the question tonight, after President Trump, fresh off achieving his years-long goal of seeing James Comey indicted, signaled that his retribution campaign may just be getting started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Now that James Comey has been indicted, who is the next person on your list in this retribution?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. I mean, they're corrupt. These were corrupt, radical left Democrats, because Comey essentially was a -- he's worse than a Democrat. I would say the Democrats are better than Comey. But, no there'll be others.
Look, it was -- that's my opinion. They weaponized the Justice Department, like nobody in history. What they've done is terrible, and so I would, I hope, frankly, I hope there are others, because you can't let this happen to a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump denying there is a list, while confirming to CNN's Kevin Liptak that he certainly has others in mind.
What stood out to me during that exchange is how undeterred the President seems, by concerns that he is doing exactly what he's criticizing. Weaponizing the Justice Department.
Despite questions about the strength of the case against James Comey, the President today portrayed it as a slam-dunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, we'll see. But it's a pretty easy case because, look, he lied. You saw my Truth today. He lied. Yes, no, he didn't say, 'Well, in my opinion' He didn't do a lot of things that maybe he should have, but I don't think he could because he lied. That was a very important question that he was asked and he wanted to be specific, but he didn't.
It's about justice, really. It's not revenge.
REPORTER: Mr. President--
TRUMP: It's also about the fact that you can't let this go on. They are sick, radical left people and they can't get away with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Trump insisting it's not about revenge. But just look at what his own words say, and how they appear to belie that assertion.
What he said today, just alone, look at this. James Dirty Cop Comey was a destroyer of lives. Trump says, He knew exactly what he was saying, and that it was a very serious and far reaching lie for which a very big price must be paid.
Later, the President said, The level of enthusiasm by the FBI was incredible, but only caused by the fact that they knew Comey for what he is, and was, a total SLIMEBALL. Again, thank you to the FBI and, specifically, those that worked on this case with U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, and the DOJ.
Now, as for these charges, there's still so much that we don't know tonight, based on just this two-page indictment, quite brief. But we are learning more, that what Comey is being accused of likely isn't related to what you might assume.
You see, the indictment alleges that Comey lied to Congress in 2020, when he said that he had, quote, Not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning Person 1. But Person 1 is not a reference to Donald Trump. Our sources actually tell us that Person 1 is Hillary Clinton. And that line in that indictment appears to be in reference to this testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): What Mr. McCabe is saying, and what you testified to this committee, cannot both be true. One or the other is false. Who is telling the truth?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: I just can only speak to my testimony. I stand by what -- the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.
CRUZ: So, your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak. And Mr. McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth, is that correct?
COMEY: Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony. But mine is the same today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK. So the indictment says, that statement was false, because as Comey then and there knew, he, in fact, had authorized Person 3 to serve as an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning Person 1.
[21:05:00]
And our sources tell us that Person 3 is actually Comey's longtime friend, and the Columbia Law School Professor, Daniel Richman, who was at one point, during Comey's tenure as the Director, basically a contractor at the FBI. Which would mean, that the Justice Department is alleging Comey authorized his friend to leak a story about the FBI's investigation of Hillary Clinton and her use of a private email server. Not Donald Trump, and not the Russia investigation.
Clinton has long-accused Comey of damaging her campaign and swinging the election for Trump. And that the two counts that Comey is now facing could actually be instead about alleged leaks related to Hillary Clinton, would be the irony of ironies.
I should note, that as we've been following this throughout the day and waiting for when we are going to see Comey in court, October 9th, we haven't heard from the former FBI Director, since his taped statement last night.
But listen to what he told CNN, earlier this year, in this unearthed interview about his relationship, not only with the President, but also his MAGA base.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMEY: Yes, I'm still considered a villain in MAGA world. Hope I said that correctly, although I've offended enough people in MAGA world, it doesn't matter at this point. I'm not sure exactly why that is.
I -- I often joke I'm the relationship that Trump can't get over, wakes up in the middle of the night thinking about me and how I'm living my best life.
I think it has some combination of I really have had a happy, productive life since then and -- and that I spoke out about him, and that despite their absolute best efforts, they were never able -- never able to get me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My legal sources tonight include:
Former federal prosecutors, Elie Honig and Gene Rossi.
Also, the retired federal judge, John E. Jones III.
And it's so great to have all three of you here.
Because Elie, I think one big question is, how you're reading this indictment differently tonight, given the reporting that Person 1, we believe, is actually Hillary Clinton, Person 2 is Donald Trump, and Person 3 is Dan Richman, his friend from -- who was a contractor at the FBI.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Well, Kaitlan, there's more we know, and there's more we know we don't know now tonight.
But let's go with the new reporting that Daniel Richman is the person who prosecutors allege was authorized by Jim Comey to leak. I see two major problems with this.
First of all, Mr. Richman -- Professor Richman, was interviewed by the FBI in 2019, and he told them, Jim Comey never told me to leak to the press. That's going to be a major problem for the prosecution.
The second big problem I see is simply confusion in the way Ted Cruz asked that question, and the way Jim Comey answered. If you're going to bring a perjury case, and get a conviction, as a prosecutor, you need a clean, clear question and a clean, clear answer.
If you watch that whole clip of Ted Cruz? There's an expression lawyers have. It's a compound question, meaning you're asking two things at once. That's a triple compound or quadruple compound question. And Comey just responds by saying, See my earlier testimony.
So it's not at all clear what Ted Cruz is asking. It's not at all clear what Jim Comey believes he's answering. As you said, it appears Ted Cruz is asking about Andy McCabe. But in fact, it turns out now that the government's theory is that somehow this had to do with Daniel Richman.
So, this is a convoluted theory of perjury. The case still seems very problematic to me, based on what we do know now. COLLINS: Well, and Gene, you were a prosecutor in this office in Virginia. When you hear what the President is also arguing today, not only about the strength of this case, he seems to think it's quite strong. But he's also seems to -- seems to be saying, Comey didn't leave himself a lot of wiggle room in that answer. I mean, Elie seems to be arguing that he kind of did.
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Is Donald Trump going to be the lead counsel in that prosecution and do the opening, closing and rebuttal? I pray that he does.
I want to compliment my colleague, Mr. Elie Honig. He hit the nail on the head. It was a, in figure skating, they call it a triple lutz, quadruple lutz. He's absolutely right about that. And there's a case that Elie's probably familiar with called Bronston. When you -- when you present a false statement or a perjury charge, you have to be precise, like a laser beam. And this indictment is all over the map. It's like a kaleidoscope.
But here's why I say that. There were three counts. The grand jury voted on three counts. And you need 12 out of 23 votes to get an approved count. On both counts that were approved, it was 14 to nine, and the other count was 12 votes No. I think that's a red flag.
When I worked in the U.S. Attorney's Office, in Eastern District, I can't give the details, but I present an indictment, pretty aggressive, and a foreman came out and he did this. And on the sheet that they approved the indictment on, he wrote, Vote, 12, yes, a 11, no, very close.
[21:10:00]
You know what I did? I went to my criminal chief and I said, It's not looking good. He said, immediately, Dismiss the indictment.
Because if the grand jury does not like this case? And a ham sandwich can be indicted? If a grand jury doesn't like it? When they get to a petit jury, a real jury, in front of a judge, and not just a playground where it's just the prosecutor, a witness and the grand jurors? They are going to get their head handed to them on a platter.
COLLINS: Judge, is that how you see it that, given how close this was, it was as 14 at most -- of at most 23 grand jurors that voted to indict Comey, on these two charges. How is this going to go when it gets to the trial part, if it does?
JOHN E. JONES III, RETIRED CHIEF JUDGE, U.S. MIDDLE DISTRICT COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA, PRESIDENT, DICKINSON COLLEGE: Well, first of all, Kaitlan, I've never seen a situation where you had -- you got two counts through and one not. I mean, that's unique. You talk to prosecutors. And I know that Gene and Elie were both very able and experienced prosecutors. That's bizarre in and of itself. But you know, you can--
COLLINS: Can you tell me why that's--
E. JONES III: As--
COLLINS: Can you tell us why that's bizarre, for people who maybe have never been in a grand jury, never were a prosecutor.
E. JONES III: Sure.
COLLINS: Tell us -- tell the rest of us why that's so bizarre.
E. JONES III: Absolutely. Because, as Gene just referenced, there is that old adage about indicting a ham sandwich. But I mean, fundamentally, it's a one-sided proceeding.
ROSSI: Right.
E. JONES III: It's usually an agent recounting testimony. And in federal grand juries, you can use hearsay, you can throw anything against the wall and it'll stick, at this point.
And so, to have that many grand jurors not vote for a true bill of indictment means that even in the most one sided of proceedings, where the deck is totally stacked in favor of the government, they couldn't get the ball against the goal line.
And as Gene just said, the fact of the matter is, if you can't get it past a grand jury in that realm, in that venue (ph), well you're certainly not going to get a conviction. You got to get a unanimous jury, 12 votes to do it.
But what I was going to say, Kaitlan, is that, I look at it from this perspective too. You can so infect a proceeding with prejudice that you -- that you violate the Fifth Amendment, the due process clause within the Fifth Amendment. And everybody's talked about it very rightly so, vindictive prosecution or a selective prosecution. There's more to it than that.
I'm sure that Comey is legal team are in the process of downloading and printing every one of the President's social media posts, because he single-handedly -- and I think this is ironic, the guy who is urging and fostering this prosecution is, in fact, working now, I guess, unwittingly, to tear it down. I mean, he is providing every bit of ammunition, for the defense, to file a motion, and say that this is irretrievably prejudiced. And I can see the judge is going to have to handle that.
COLLINS: Yes, he's certainly given them a lot of material.
But Elie, can I get your take? Because, in addition to what he's saying publicly, to people like Kevin Liptak, the reporters there on the South Lawn today, what he's posting, thanking the FBI for their work here.
We also heard, Elie, tonight, from the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, on whether or not they are feeling pressure at DOJ to bring these charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: That appears to be a lot of pressure from the President to go after Comey, Letitia James, and Adam Schiff. What do you think of that?
TODD BLANCHE, UNITED STATES DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't take that as pressure.
When the President says that he's reading things, or that he wants us to do investigations and he wants us to do our job, the Attorney General does not take that as pressure. I don't take that as pressure. I take that as a president who is working every day, for the American people and, every day, to make sure that we're doing our jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Elie?
HONIG: That's ridiculous.
ROSSI: Yes.
HONIG: I mean, look, just look at the timeline of the last week. Six days ago, Donald Trump sent out that first Truth Social where he said, what's happening with Comey and Letitia James and Adam Schiff, I'm paraphrasing here, and they're guilty as hell.
What happens then? Within 24 or 48 hours, the career prosecutor, the conservative, the Trump appointee, Erik Siebert? He's gone.
In comes this novice, Lindsey Halligan. Never touched a criminal case until this week. And then days later, there's an indictment of, Oh my gosh, one of the three listed people.
So, I mean, Todd Blanche can deny it, but we can all see it's commonsense, it's logic, and it's obvious that they're responding to the President's pressure.
[21:15:00]
And as Judge Jones said, this is going to be a major problem for the prosecutors. This is going to give Jim Comey's defense team a very powerful motion to dismiss this case. I've never seen a stronger case for selective prosecution, because usually the President doesn't write it out and tweet it out to tens or hundreds of millions of people.
COLLINS: Yes, Gene, what did you make of that?
ROSSI: All I can say is Elie is very kind by calling her a novice. I worked in a Rossi lumberyard, and if I were to you use words from that lumber yard, it would be a lot more harsh than novice. Junior varsity is probably the best I can say.
Here's a motion that the pro -- the defense attorney should use. In addition to the vindictive and the selected, the third motion I would do, I do a beeline, there's a bank -- a Bank of Nova Scotia case, that stands for proposition, if a prosecutor presents false or misleading information to a grand jury, either out of their own words, summarizing the indictment, or through a witness, that will be cause for dismissal of indictment.
So, the first thing I would do with Judge Nachmanoff -- and the judge is nodding his head -- I file a motion to get the transcript. And here's my good-faith basis. My good faith basis is it wasn't Rossi or Honig going in there. It was the junior varsity who never got training for a grand jury, never did a grand jury, apparently went in with just one other person, and she has no experience.
And I'll guarantee you, there's a good-faith basis to find out if she stepped on her proverbial toes, or said something that was wrong, that would lead to a motion under Bank of Nova Scotia. And here's why I say that. When they did the return of the indictments, which is really an unremarkable thing, Magistrate Judge Vaala, behold, for whom I appeared, she's very excellent, excellent, smart, there were two indictments presented.
So, the U.S. attorney is so, how should I say novice, that she presents two indictments, one had three counts, one had two. She looked like a clown show.
COLLINS: We will see obviously, how the judge responds to that in their court.
Elie. Judge Jones. Gene. Great to have all of you here tonight. Thank you for your legal expertise.
ROSSI: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next year for us, on Capitol Hill, there is a shutdown brewing. There's a question whether either party has a plan to stop the government running out of funding, just couple of days from now.
We're going to speak to the House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, on the state of negotiations or, maybe I should say, the lack thereof.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The federal government is set to run out of money, on Tuesday.
But unlike potential government shutdowns that we've seen before, we're not exactly sure what this one is going to look like. That's because we haven't seen the White House, the administration post which government services would continue, if the government shuts down, and which ones won't.
In previous instances, we've seen administrations post contingency plans, basically, for all government agencies. This time, it remains to be seen when it comes to things like inspecting food to make sure it's safe, tax refunds getting processed, national parks staying open, or people who get food stamps receiving those.
This comes, as House Republicans are, right now, still planning to stay home until at least next Wednesday, out of Washington.
And the President has canceled his meeting with top Democrats that they had set up to negotiate and talk about the shutdown, which he framed this way, as he was leaving the White House today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Democrats want to shut it down. And they want to shut it down because they want to give billions, ultimately trillions, of dollars, to illegal migrants, people that came into our country illegally. Some of those people are criminals, but they came into our country illegally, and they want to give them the essential over years, trillions of dollars, and our people aren't going to stand for it.
They also want to have open borders. They want to have men in women's sports. They want to have transgender for everybody. These people are crazy, the Democrats. So, if it has to shut down, it will have to shut down, but they're the ones that are shutting down government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My congressional source tonight is the leader of Democrats in the House. Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
Obviously, today's Friday. Government funding runs out midnight, Tuesday. I don't have to tell you that. Is it fair to say that a government shutdown is inevitable, at this point?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, I'm here in Washington, right now, and Democrats are ready, willing and able to sit down with anyone at any time, at any place, here in Washington, D.C., in order to try to find a bipartisan agreement that actually meets the needs of the American people, in terms of their health, their safety and their economic wellbeing.
And our position has been clear. We will not support this partisan, Republican spending bill, because it continues to gut the health care of the American people. We will support an agreement that actually provides funding to keep the government open, that is negotiated in a bipartisan way.
The President agreed to a meeting, and then he pulled the meeting. Now he's fled town, and is on the golf course at the Ryder's Cup in New York, it makes no sense. They're trying to shut the government down. And Republicans, of course, control the House, the Senate and the Presidency, which is why they will clearly be blamed.
COLLINS: Yes, and the President returned to Washington, earlier, but he canceled his meeting that was planned with you and Chuck Schumer. House Republicans are not in Washington. I think, given that, if there is no one to negotiate with, what power do Democrats have to stop a shutdown from happening?
[21:25:00]
JEFFRIES: Well, that's exactly the point, that Republicans are in the majority in the House and in the Senate, and Donald Trump is the President. If they decide to shut the government down, then the government is going to shut down.
We believe we have a sense of responsibility, in terms of trying to find a bipartisan path forward, which we've made clear to the White House, and to our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, in the House and in the Senate. But they've refused to have a conversation, and they've canceled votes on the eve of the government shutting down, next Wednesday. We were scheduled to be in session, on Monday and Tuesday.
By the way, Democrats will be here in Washington, D.C., on Monday, ready to do our job. Unfortunately, House Republicans will be on vacation, scattered across the country and the world.
COLLINS: Just something you said to Punchbowl News stuck out to me earlier. Is it true that you have never actually met the President?
JEFFRIES: No, well, we haven't had a formal meeting during his time in office. We did spend some time together, along with the other legislative leaders on Inauguration Day, both at the White House, when he was greeted formally by former President Joe Biden, and then, of course, at the Capitol during the inauguration, which, by the way, was like a super-villain convention that the American people had to witness, and it's been a national nightmare ever since.
COLLINS: One question on, if Tuesday comes, and there is no agreement. Once the government shutdown happens, if it does, do you and Senator Schumer have an exit ramp? Basically, how do you -- how do you get out of it once it -- once the government has shut down?
JEFFRIES: Well, we've continued to make clear our position. Cancel the cuts, lower the costs, save health care.
Republicans have launched an unprecedented assault against the health care of the American people. Largest cut to Medicaid in American history. Hospitals, nursing homes and community-based health clinics shutting down.
Their refusal to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, which is going to result in a matter of a few weeks, tens of millions of Americans experiencing dramatically increased premiums, copays and deductibles. They have canceled medical research, effectively, in the United States of America. And because of their one big, ugly bill, have set in motion a possible $536 billion cut to Medicare.
It's an extraordinary assault on health care for working-class Americans, urban America, rural America, suburban America, black and brown America, and the country. And all we're saying is, Let's find a path forward to actually fix the health care system that Republicans have broken, for the good of everyone.
COLLINS: Yes. JEFFRIES: Democrats. Republicans. And Independents.
COLLINS: And there are some Senate Republicans, who say they want to negotiate, actually, on those health care subsidies. They'd like to see them extended.
But on the Medicaid funding cuts that were just passed in the President's signature bill, I think the question is, do you really think Republicans are going to vote to undo the legislation they just passed?
JEFFRIES: Donald Trump promised, I think it was on January 30th, that he was going to love and cherish Medicaid. And then they turned around, passed their one big, ugly bill, and enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history, along with stealing food from the mouths of children. And all of this was being done to reward their billionaire donors with massive tax breaks.
It's deeply unpopular with the American people. And you have Republicans in the House and the Senate who have said, We got to do something about these Medicaid cuts that we just voted for, because hospitals, nursing homes and community-based health clinics in our communities are closing.
We told them, that was going to happen. Now they're starting to see the consequences. And so yes, we do think that there's some bipartisan opportunity, to deal with their assault on Medicaid and all the things, related to the health care of the American people.
COLLINS: Are you and Senator Schumer aligned on your strategy here?
JEFFRIES: Yes, House and Senate Democrats are in complete alignment. We voted together, all of us opposing the one big, ugly bill.
We've been working closely together, over the last several months, and Senator Schumer and I talk every day. House and Senate Democrats are in constant contact. And we believe this is the right fight, on behalf of the American people, protecting their health care and addressing the Republican health care crisis.
COLLINS: Well, I ask because Senator Schumer faced a lot of blowback, back in March, from your party, when he supported that Republican- written bill to avert a government shutdown. Democrats, clearly, at least the base wanted a fight, to at least see some kind of fight from Democrats.
So, do you have confidence in Senator Schumer's handling this, on the Senate side, this time?
JEFFRIES: I have complete and total confidence in Leader Schumer, as well as in the partnership House Democrats have with Senate Democrats, to stand up for the health, the safety, the economic wellbeing of the American people.
[21:30:00] I mean, this is an extraordinary thing that we're seeing. Just recently, Donald Trump announced that he's imposing tariffs, on October 1st, on prescription drugs, which is going to increase prescription drug prices, in addition to the health care price increases that we're experiencing, the increases in grocery costs, the increases in housing costs, the increases in electricity bills.
Donald Trump promised to lower the cost of living, on day one. Costs aren't going down, they're going up. And the American people have had enough, and Democrats are standing on their side.
COLLINS: You're obviously making these demands that Republicans say they're just unrealistic for -- to keep the government funded for seven more weeks, as you continue to negotiate. How long are you willing to fight for them?
JEFFRIES: Well, Republicans had an opportunity, over the last several months, to actually sit down and have a conversation with us, to try to find a bipartisan path forward. They've refused. They've decided to go it alone. They dropped this reckless partisan bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people, and it went down in flames. And so, their bill is dead on arrival.
And the only option, at this moment in time, is for them to actually have a conversation. And as we've pointed out, we're here. We're ready to talk. We were ready to go to the White House. We're ready to have a conversation in Washington, D.C. They need to come back to meet us, so we can try to work this out, as opposed to staying out on vacation, having canceled votes that they previously scheduled.
COLLINS: House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, we'll see what happens on Tuesday, obviously. Please keep us updated. And thank you for your time, and joining us tonight.
JEFFRIES: Thank you.
COLLINS: Coming up. When it comes to Jimmy Kimmel, there were still a lot of people who could not watch his show this week. But those two local TV giants who are refusing to show it, are putting it back on air. What, if anything, did they get in return?
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, that local media blackout of "Jimmy Kimmel Live" is coming to an end. That's because two local broadcasting giants, Sinclair and Nexstar announced that they will allow the late night host to return to their stations, after they had preempted Jimmy Kimmel's show from about a fifth of all the ABC affiliates nationwide this week. You can see them here. That basically means that Jimmy Kimmel's going to air, once again, in all the major cities, across dozens of markets, including Washington, D.C.
My source tonight is CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
And Brian, I think one big question is, why this is happening and why now?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right. This is the biggest week of Jimmy Kimmel's career. You know, he's been more popular than ever on YouTube.
But he wasn't shown for most of the week on these local stations, and it all has to do with the transactional nature of the Trump administration. Nexstar and Sinclair, both with pending business before the government, both trying to curry favor with the Trump administration, and especially Trump's TV regulator, Brendan Carr.
Two weeks ago, Carr was barely a household name. Yes, he appears frequently on right-wing TV shows, but he was not that well-known. But I think this Kimmel controversy has both highlighted him and, in some ways, really created a lot of criticism.
Notably, President Trump tonight praised Carr on Truth Social. Carr has been mostly quiet this week, though, now that Kimmel is back on the air.
And I think now, going forward, now that we've been through kind of 10 days of Kimmelgate, you have to look out for other examples of this in the future, you know? other examples of media companies being pressured either very explicitly and publicly, by someone like Brendan Carr, or more discreetly, behind the scenes.
But there is clearly an effort, and it's going to continue, from President Trump and his allies to control and, sometimes, censor content and coverage, by putting pressure on media companies.
So, that's why it's so notable, Nexstar and Sinclair did fold today. Both these companies did fold. They did agree to start to resume Kimmel's show. And that just shows, Kaitlan, how much more power ABC has as a national network. If this had gone on much longer, football games, other sporting events, other ABC special programming, would have started to be at risk.
COLLINS: Yes.
STELTER: The national network would have started to put more pressure on the locals, maybe started to yank those other shows. And so here we are, Kimmel back on the air, on those stations.
COLLINS: Well, and Sinclair had called on Kimmel to apologize to Charlie Kirk's family, to make a donation to Turning Point USA.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: Do we know if that happened?
STELTER: Right. Nexstar condemned Kimmel very clearly. Sinclair pushed him to issue an apology, also suggested he make a donation to Turning Point USA. But Kimmel did not do any of that. The stations folded anyway. And that does speak in part, to the contracts at issue. It also speaks to the power of consumer pressure. My sources at these local stations said phones were ringing off the hook. And journalists who work for these local stations, who don't want to be caught up in this battle, who don't want to fold to the President, they were increasingly frustrated and uncomfortable with what was going on with the parent companies. It's hard to say how much of that actually had an influence on the ultimate decision here.
But I think we have learned a lot, through this ordeal, at least through Kimmel's ordeal, he's had quite a week, about how this transactional dynamic goes. And the consumer reaction can be really important. It's harder to measure that, when Trump is up against Harvard, or a law firm, or the Smithsonian. But it's easy to measure, when his administration goes up a big media company, because Disney could clearly feel the pressure.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously, as Kimmel was noting, last night, even though these two broadcasting giants were preempting him, he was still getting huge ratings of people tuning in to see what he had to say, this week, and amid all of this, what that exactly looks like. And so, of course, we'll see what happens, going forward here--
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: --and what the next step is, for Jimmy Kimmel, and what he has to say.
Brian Stelter, as always, great to have you.
STELTER: Thanks.
COLLINS: And coming up here for us. My next source says NFL quarterbacks are kind of like politicians, digging into what it takes to be great in the most powerful position there is, in football, ahead of a huge football weekend. That's next.
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[21:45:00]
COLLINS: It's the most powerful position in football, and often the one that comes with the most attention and certainly the highest scrutiny.
To be an NFL quarterback, at least for the millions of fans who tune in religiously every Sunday, Monday and Thursday, their quarterback is akin to American royalty, or at least while their team is winning, that is. But to be an all-time great is a journey that can be filled with a dizzying mix of pressure and security, jealousy and a meteoric rise to super-stardom.
My source tonight is the ESPN Senior Writer, Seth Wickersham, whose new book, "American Kings: A Biography of the Quarterback," is in stores now. And obviously, what you kind of get into, this as someone who was also a quarterback once, you talk about how there are all these quarterbacks, across the country. Every town has a quarterback. Everyone knows theirs. Obviously small town, when I was growing up, we all knew ours as well. 34 of them only have made it to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
When it comes to looking at what goes from being a quarterback, to being a great quarterback, I wonder what you learned, as you were reporting out this book.
SETH WICKERSHAM, SENIOR WRITER, ESPN, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN KINGS: A BIOGRAPHY OF THE QUARTERBACK": Yes, you're being really kind, saying that I was a quarterback. I'm trying -- I played JV quarterback in Anchorage, Alaska. I'm trying not to be Alaska's Uncle Rico here.
But no, you're right. Look, every year in high school, there are approximately 16,000 quarterbacks, and maybe one ends up reaching the Hall of Fame out of every class, maybe one.
And so, so much of what I try to do in the book, focusing on guys from high school, college, in the NFL, and then even what it's like to be retired in the NFL, is to get at what it takes to make it through that winnowing. And I think that there's a lot of factors that go into it, from luck to injuries, all of those things. But I really think that, like, it has more to do with mentality.
And the thing that I've learned most about quarterbacks is that, like, there's so much pressure on the position, and there is so much scrutiny, that they are almost closer to like politicians or pop stars, where they have to leave -- they have to kind of live in an ecosystem that really is detached and isolated, and really never allows doubt to penetrate in. Because, again, if they -- they're on -- they're the face of the losses, and it's--
COLLINS: It is the one name of a teammate--
WICKERSHAM: Yes.
COLLINS: --that everyone knows.
WICKERSHAM: Absolutely, and like, there's just so much pressure that comes with that, that I think that they live in an interesting state. And to go through that hard wiring, I think, is really fascinating, and what I try to get out in there.
COLLINS: Is there anything that you learned, as you were reporting this out? And you talked to so many of the greats. From them, that they said directly that maybe it was a reflection you hadn't thought about before, or hadn't realized?
WICKERSHAM: I think that, like the most interesting thing is the journey. Again, it's like the ruthlessness you have to show, to try to make it through from high school to college, and then once you're in the NFL, and those are all really unique stages. And I think that, like, the most interesting thing is when they retire, how the way that they had to program themselves to survive all of this is, like, uniquely incompatible with life around football.
And I think that, like, there's a reason why there's a lot of alcoholism and divorce and depression, really. Because Steve Young told me that, like, quarterback requires everything that is in you. He said that, like, It's this holy hell, and that's what makes it so addictive. And when they're gone, there is no going back. They don't play football again.
COLLINS: Yes.
WICKERSHAM: And so, I think that, like just surviving that transition, to me, is one of the most fascinating things. And really, it's been that way throughout history. As long as we've celebrated quarterbacks, they've all struggled with falling off of that cliff.
COLLINS: Well, and you think about that, even going from the college level to the pro level, you see how much that changes, and just the level of intensity in the game, even if they're a massive college program, like Alabama or something.
Obviously, Alabama has had a lot of amazing quarterbacks that we've produced over the years. We're watching Jalen Hurts, right now, Tua.
But also, Joe Namath is a favorite that we've had here on THE SOURCE. I know you have a good story about him.
WICKERSHAM: Well, I mean, every quarterback is culturally a descendant of Johnny Unitas or Joe Namath.
And Joe Namath was like the first guy who offered quarterback as, like a type of lifestyle. I mean, he showed what boys, and he showed girls, what this being able to throw the ball beautifully can get you.
And I was actually with him at an event in Alabama, and it was fascinating to just watch him, because he's in his 80s now, and yet he has an aura that's very similar to, like a politician, where, when he's in a room, you know you're watching an American luminary.
And at one point, I asked him -- you know, because, I mean, football has been hard for him. It's been hard on his body, it's been hard on his psyche, and he's had some issues, in those years since retirement.
[21:50:00]
And I asked him, like, Knowing everything you know about quarterbacking, and what it takes to be an American icon, when you look back, is there anything else you'd rather have done?
And it was interesting, because he looked at me, and he goes, I'd have to spend some time thinking about that, but thank God I'm still here.
COLLINS: That's kind of amazing, actually. But also, the stories of him when he got to Alabama, to Tuscaloosa, are so great, because no one really knew what to do with him. He was just so different than all the southern boys who were there, playing on the team. Those stories are amazing to me.
WICKERSHAM: I mean, Bear Bryant always said that he was the best player that he ever coached. And that was when he was just a player. And then when he became -- when he came here to New York and he be -- and he played in the NFL, is when he truly became an icon. And even though he partied like a rockstar and was kind of built like one too, he did something incredibly mesmerizing and worth mythologizing. And, like I said, there's only one American face like his.
COLLINS: Yes, it's so true. Anyone who loves football and appreciates it has to read this book.
WICKERSHAM: Thank you.
COLLINS: Certainly a quarterback does.
Seth, congrats and thanks for joining us.
WICKERSHAM: Thank you so much.
COLLINS: And Seth Wickersham's book, "American Kings: A Biography of the Quarterback," is available now.
What a week it was in Washington, from the President giving medical advice to pregnant women about Tylenol, to his retribution campaign in full force against the former FBI director. We'll take you behind the scenes, what we saw at the White House, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: From President Trump's autism announcement to the indictment of James Comey, it was quite a whirlwind week at the White House. Here's a look at what happened behind the scenes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, September 22.
TRUMP: Tylenol during pregnancy can be associated with a very increased risk of autism.
Don't take it. Don't take it.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, September 23.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump.
TRUMP: The two things I got from the United Nations, a bad escalator and a bad teleprompter.
The killing in Ukraine. It's not making Russia look good. It's making them look bad.
COLLINS: The President appears to have done a 180, switching his position from, Ukraine has no cards and will have to give up land to President Putin, to, Zelenskyy and his allies are in a position to win all of Ukraine back in its original form.
President Zelenskyy is describing it as a gamechanger. Is that how you see it?
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: It is a demonstration that the President has finally figured out that Putin is the problem.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, September 24.
COLLINS: President Trump's latest renovation of the White House is underway. But this time, it's a new step that takes a dig at his predecessor.
There's a new video that the President's aides posted today, of what they have dubbed, the Presidential Walk of Fame. But one president's photo stands out in particular. That is President Biden's. Because instead of seeing an image of President Biden, they have instead replaced it with the image of an Autopen. President Trump ordered an investigation into it, implying that the things that his name and his signature were attached to were not actually decisions that Biden made himself.
(SIRENS BLARING)
COLLINS: Tonight, another burst of violence that has many people in this country shaken, after a sniper opened fire on an immigration facility, in Texas, killing one person and leaving two others in critical condition.
We did hear from the Vice President today say it was a violent left- wing extremist who wrote this message on these bullets.
The President said, The continuing violence from Radical Left Terrorists, in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination, must be stopped.
Were either of those assessments by the Vice President or the President based on information that the Department of Homeland Security provided to them?
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've seen a lot of patterns across this country, over the last several weeks and months, and we have been focused on making sure that our ICE officers have the ability to operate safely.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, September 25.
REPORTER: It seems like an indictment on James Comey is imminent.
TRUMP: I can only say that Comey is a bad person. He did terrible things at the FBI.
COLLINS: We are following major breaking news tonight, as former FBI Director, James Comey, is now the first senior government official to face charges, in one of President Trump's biggest grievances. The 2016 Russia investigation.
COMEY: My family and I have known for years that there are costs to standing up to Donald Trump. We will not live on our knees, and you shouldn't either.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Friday, September 26.
LIPTAK: Who is the next person on your list?
TRUMP: It's not a list, but I think there'll be others.
Comey essentially was a -- he's worse than a Democrat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: That's it for us tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight, the Avenger-in-Chief teases more to come, after the indictment of James Comey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What they've done is terrible.
I hope, frankly, I hope there are others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But will Donald Trump's live commentary doom the case before it begins?
