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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Johnson Calls Schumer & Jeffries "Irredeemable"; Two DOJ Prosecutors Placed On Leave After Describing Jan. 6 Attack As "A Mob Of Rioters" In Court Document; Trump Says U.S. Will "Immediately" Begin Testing Nuclear Weapons. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 29, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --a quick reminder. A new season of my podcast, " All There Is," is out. Don't miss a deeply-moving conversation with country music superstar, Luke Bryan, about loss and grief in his life, and how he tries to help others with their pain. That's at CNN.com/AllThereIs. You can also listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.
And I'm starting a weekly companion show called "All There Is Live." It's going to be live streamed tomorrow night, and every Thursday night, at 09:15 on our grief community page. I hope you'll join us. We can come together there, talk about grief and not be alone in it. Go to CNN.com/AllThereIs.
The news continues. I'll see you, tomorrow. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries is here, as his Republican counterpart in the House calls him quote, "Irredeemable," and says he gives up trying to negotiate with him.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, the inability of our nation's leaders to reopen the government is reaching a boiling point, it seems. For the most powerful Republican in the Senate, today, that looked like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): SNAP recipients shouldn't go without food. People should be getting paid in this country. And we tried to do that 13 times. You voted no, 13 times. This isn't a political game. These are real people's lives that we're talking about. And you all just figured out, 29 days in, that, Oh, there might be some consequences?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As the finger-pointing and some shouting, as you heard there, continues in D.C., millions of Americans are preparing to rely on food banks to feed their families. Food banks which are already strained and where lines have already been long. That includes some of the roughly 1.5 million federal workers either kept home or forced to work without pay.
And three days from now, money is going to run out for the 42 million people in this country who rely on SNAP for food assistance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH ORRBELL, SNAP RECIPIENT: I will not be getting those SNAP benefits come the 1st of November, so I came and checked in to see if it was my time to shop for groceries.
NAJEE KINARD, SNAP RECIPIENT: If the benefits get cut off November, it will lead me to have to make very hard decisions.
JUAN SARO, SNAP RECIPIENT: Any man, woman or child, in the United States, the richest country, the most powerful country in the world, should never have to wonder where their next meal is going to come from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: For the 24 million Americans who are getting their health care through the Obamacare exchanges, sticker shock is on the verge of setting in tonight. Because as of today, in most states, people can now look up for themselves how much their insurance rates are going to go up, should nothing be done about the subsidies that Democrats are fighting over, right now. On average, the Kaiser Family Foundation found that that will be a 26 percent jump in premiums, next year.
On Capitol Hill, this evening, there's a group of Republican and Democratic senators who have been meeting behind the scenes, and behind closed doors, attempting to figure a way out of this logjam. That includes members like Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who told CNN tonight, she believes the pieces of a deal exist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q: Are the bipartisan talks making any headway?
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): We're hoping so.
Q: OK. The Leader had kind of indicated that there was an uptick in them this week. Is that true?
MURKOWSKI: Yes, it's good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK. So, she sounded kind of hopeful, when you heard her there, as the elevator door was closing.
But compare that and what they were saying about potentially working with Democrats and Republicans on, Capitol Hill, to what we just heard from the Vice President, moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The problem is, as reasonable as some of these people can be in private. In public, the current obsession of the Democratic Party in leadership -- I'm not saying every Democrat in the country -- but the current obsession of every Democrat in Congress is, Get President Trump, fight President Trump, attack President Trump.
It is impossible for us to work across the aisle, unless a person is willing to put down their partisan sword, shut the hell up about fake scandals related to Donald Trump, and actually work with us.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was the Vice President tonight, in Mississippi.
And for his part, in the House, Speaker Mike Johnson appears to be open to Republicans engaging with certain Democrats. Just not the ones who lead the rank-and-file.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The Democrats are eating up the clock. We have very important work to do here. And that's why we're pleading with them. Not Chuck Schumer. Look, I think Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries are irredeemable at this point. I don't think they'll be able to tell Mamdani in New York and his disciples that they voted to open the government.
I've given up on the leadership. So, we're trying to appeal to a handful of moderates or centrists who care more about the American people and will put the people's interests over their own, and do the right thing in the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: My lead source tonight is one of those Democrats that the Speaker just mentioned. The House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries of New York.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
What's your response to Speaker Johnson saying that he has given up on Democratic leadership, i.e., you?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, Mike Johnson hasn't even tried to sit down and negotiate with Democrats during the 29 days that Donald Trump and Republicans have actually shut the government down.
And, of course, they are completely and totally uninterested in solving or addressing, decisively, the Republican health care crisis that they've created, including their continued refusal to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, notwithstanding the fact that on November 1st, when open enrollment begins, it's going to be crystal clear to tens of millions of Americans, across the country, that their premiums, copays and deductibles are about to dramatically increase.
COLLINS: Would you say that Zohran Mamdani has anything to do with reopening the government, for Democrats?
JEFFRIES: Of course not. It's a silly, unhinged conspiracy theory. The thing that we know to be true about Mike Johnson, and House Republicans, is that they haven't been given permission by their puppet master, that would be Donald J. Trump, to sit down and have a conversation with Democrats.
We've said from the very beginning that we want to reopen the government, that we want to enter into a bipartisan spending agreement that actually meets the needs of the American people, while, at the same time, addresses the health care crisis that they've created, and are visiting on the American people, which includes, but is not limited to the largest cut to Medicaid in American history. The fact that hospitals, nursing homes and community-based health centers are closing, all across America, including dozens, potentially, in Louisiana, the home state of Mike Johnson.
And now, they're refusing to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, which is going to adversely impact the ability of working- class Americans, everyday Americans, and middle-class Americans, to receive their health care or go see a doctor when they need to.
COLLINS: You said that Mike Johnson is not willing to sit down, have a conversation. Y'all did have a phone conversation, I believe you said, earlier today. Who initiated that call? Was that you? Or was that Speaker Johnson?
JEFFRIES: It was a call from Mike Johnson. It was very brief, and it wasn't a substantive discussion in terms of finding a path forward.
COLLINS: But was he calling to talk about the government shutdown?
JEFFRIES: I mean, you can say that that was in the ballpark. But it was a private conversation that will remain private. However, nothing meaningful came out of it, again, because Donald Trump has not given Mike Johnson permission, to enter into a bipartisan negotiation.
Kaitlan, I mean, House Republicans have been literally on vacation for the last five weeks. They have canceled votes, five consecutive weeks in a row. They are uninterested in doing anything other than jamming their partisan Republican spending bill down the throats of the American people.
And as Democrats, we've made clear, we will not support a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people. Period. Full stop.
COLLINS: I ask about y'all's conversation because it sounds like, based on the reporting, here at CNN, and other outlets that cover you close, down in -- the Hill, that it's a lot of the rank-and-file members who are trying to have these conversations on next steps here, whether that's in the Senate or even in the House tonight.
And some people might look at that and say, the leaders, should the leaders not be leading on these negotiations, and these talks, to find some kind of common ground?
JEFFRIES: Well, from the standpoint of what may emerge from the Senate, as House Democrats, we've consistently said that we will consider anything in good faith that emerges from the Senate, as long as it's, of course, bipartisan in nature, and decisively addresses the Republican health care crisis.
But we are not going to continue to go down this road that Republicans have been taking the country since January 20, which is, my way or the highway, because they just want to jam their right-wing ideology down the throats of the American people.
We've seen the damage that they've already done in their one big, ugly bill, which, by the way, also includes the largest cut to SNAP in American history. They cut $186 billion in nutritional assistance. Literally, these people ripped food from the mouths of hungry children, seniors, veterans, women, and families, so they could reward their billionaire donors with massive tax breaks, and make those tax breaks permanent. And now, they're threatening to take those benefits away from 42 million Americans on November 1st.
COLLINS: Well, can I ask you on that? Because that's what Leader Thune was shouting about on the floor today. Because a Democrat, over in the Senate, tried to introduce a bill, basically that would just fund SNAP during the government shutdown. We've seen some Republicans who support doing that.
[21:10:00]
And yes, you're right that the Republicans just cut $186 billion from SNAP in the one big, beautiful bill. We've talked about that at length with the Republicans on this show.
But I wonder, does that comfort the 42 million people, though, who are about to go without SNAP, starting in November, who are being denied those benefits. While you're fighting for these Obamacare subsidies, the question is, which pain point is the worst, I guess.
JEFFRIES: Well, none of this pain that Republicans have inflicted on the American people is acceptable.
It's also important to note that the money currently exists within the Trump administration, including $5 billion in a contingency fund, specifically, for this kind of circumstance, to continue providing SNAP benefits to the American people, including 16 million children who might otherwise go hungry, if Donald Trump successfully withholds these SNAP benefits.
The Trump administration doesn't need Congress to act, in order to continue providing nutritional and food assistance to everyday Americans. They're trying to weaponize this issue, and cause people to go hungry in the most callous and cruel manner possible. COLLINS: Yes, but on that front, as you know, what basically they have in their contingency funds is about $5 billion to $6 billion. It costs about $9 billion for SNAP benefits. So what happens if they do dip into that? I mean, that's still not enough to cover all the benefits.
JEFFRIES: Well, there's certainly other funding that they have the ability to move around, as we've seen them do throughout the entirety of Donald Trump's presidency.
And by the way, this is the same group of people, who somehow found $40 billion, in order to bail out their right-wing wannabe dictator friend in Argentina, but they can't find a dime, in order to make sure that more than 42 million Americans, including more than a million veterans and 8 million seniors, don't go hungry because of their callousness? Of course, they can find that funding. They are unwilling to, because they want to weaponize hunger as part of their continuing effort to hurt the American people.
COLLINS: Leader Thune's argument today was, If Democrats want to fund SNAP, they've had 13 opportunities to do so by just funding the government. That would keep SNAP funded.
For Democrats, is there a point, though, where the pain of the shutdown outweighs the fight for the extended Obamacare subsidies, in your view?
JEFFRIES: Well, we're going to continue to fight on all of the things. And we've said from the very beginning that we want to find a bipartisan path forward to enacting a spending agreement that actually meets the needs of the American people. And we set out three criteria. Their health, public safety and their economic well-being, particularly as it relates to driving down the high cost of living, in an environment, where Donald Trump promised to lower costs on day one, costs haven't gone down in America.
Costs have gone up. Inflation moving in the wrong direction. Trump tariffs creating thousands of dollars in additional expense on everyday Americans. Electricity bills, through the roof. Housing costs, out of control. Child care costs, out of control. And now they want to create this health care crisis because of their refusal to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
So, we're fighting on all of the things, but anchored in a premise that we have to make life better for working-class Americans, everyday Americans, and middle-class Americans.
COLLINS: Yes, it's just obviously going to be really tough for those millions of people who rely on SNAP and are about to not get it.
You said today that there are zero cracks when it comes to your group, to the Democratic side. I want you to listen though to what your colleague from New Jersey had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): I think what's a very fair deal is open the government, and let's just vote on extending these premiums for a year, or more. Well, I don't understand what's so hard about that. And by the way, Senator Thune has offered that, I believe. He said, we'll have a -- he offered up a vote that we can actually have a vote on extending these premiums.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Obviously, Josh Gottheimer is a Democrat. What's your reaction to his argument there?
JEFFRIES: Yes, well, I speak to Josh five or six times a week, and we all are in this fight to make sure that we protect the health care of everyday Americans. And of course, that includes, but is not limited to dealing with extending the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
These Republicans can't necessarily be trusted by simply offering a wing and a prayer. Understand, this is the same group of people who have tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act more than 70 different times, over the last 15 years. They have zero health care plan that is credible. Don't take my word for it. That's what Marjorie Taylor Greene has made clear. She can't find the health care plan. None of us can. Because it's non-existent.
And so, we just want to make sure, on behalf of the American people, that there's a credible path toward addressing the Republican health care crisis.
COLLINS: Yes, Congresswoman AOC told me that she believes that she needs to see ink on paper before she would vote to reopen the government. Is that your standard as well when it comes to those subsidies and what's going to happen with them?
[21:15:00]
JEFFRIES: Well, I think we just need a credible path forward, so that beyond--
COLLINS: Right, but what does a credible path forward look like, I think, a lot of people--
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFRIES: Well, a credible path forward, to me, means something legislative, and we've made that point from the very beginning.
And we believe that it exists, because there are Republicans, both traditional conservative Republicans who are in swing districts, who are pleading with Mike Johnson, to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
And then some people on the right, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who also recognizes that premiums, copays and deductibles, absent congressional action, are about to skyrocket for her constituents, and people all across rural America, urban America, small town America, the heartland of America, and of course, black and brown neighborhoods and communities throughout America, in some cases by a $1000 or $2,000 per month. This is all unsustainable, and it's why it requires dramatic, decisive action.
COLLINS: Before you were the House Minority Leader, there was a government shutdown, back in 2013. It was Republicans who would not vote to fund the government at that time.
I want to listen to something you had to say then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFRIES: We're in the midst of a government shutdown right now that is unnecessarily forcing pain on the American people. It's a shutdown that was manufactured by the House GOP, that has resulted in a situation, where Americans all across this country have now been put in jeopardy. That's a tragedy of epic proportions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I wonder what Hakeem Jeffries of today would say to the Hakeem Jeffries of 2013, who had that message, in terms of wanting to pass a clean CR, so Congress could get back to work.
JEFFRIES: Well, the Hakeem Jeffries of today definitively agrees with the Hakeem Jeffries of yesterday, from the standpoint of, Listen, we've said to Republicans, get to the negotiating table. We want to find a bipartisan path forward. We want to reopen the government. We are standing by hard-working federal employees. But we need a partner in that effort.
But we don't have a partner. Literally, Donald Trump, over the last 29 days, has spent more time talking to Hamas, and to the Chinese Communist Party, than to Democrats on Capitol Hill who represent half the country. And that's extraordinary in and of itself.
And we've said, we will pass a spending bill that's bipartisan, that makes life better for the American people. What we will not do is support continued Republican efforts to rip health care away from everyday Americans.
COLLINS: You were asked today if you will defer your paycheck during the shutdown. Obviously, a lot of federal workers, TSA agents are going without paychecks. Have you made a decision on that yet, sir?
JEFFRIES: I'll be commenting on that shortly. But I understand the sacrifice that people are making, including Capitol police officers here, and I'm going to conduct myself accordingly, given that sacrifice.
COLLINS: So that sounds like a yes, that you will defer your paycheck?
JEFFRIES: Well, I have more to say about that shortly, but I think consistent with the values that I just articulated.
COLLINS: Leader Hakeem Jeffries, thank you for joining us tonight. Really appreciate your time.
JEFFRIES: Thank you. COLLINS: And of course, you just heard from the House Minority Leader. He talked about Republicans in the House, and how they view all of this. I'm going to talk to one of them who actually has frustration with Speaker Mike Johnson's plan, and whether or not the House should be back in Washington.
Also, tonight, there are two Justice Department prosecutors who were on -- placed on leave, because they filed a court document describing January 6th as an attack carried out by a mob of rioters? What's wrong with that?
And also tonight, one of the last polls, that was just out in the race for New York mayor, is pretty telling about this final sprint to Election Day, next week. Still tonight, though, there are no tops -- no signs that the top Senate Democrat is budging on an endorsement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mamdani, are you going to vote for him?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Look, the bottom line is very simple. I have a good relationship with him, and we're continuing to talk.
RAJU: Well, the vote is on Tuesday. What are you going to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With six days left to go, in the New York City's mayor's race, a stunning 372,000 New Yorkers have already cast their ballots. That's stunning, because that is more than all of the early votes that were cast, in-person, the last time back in 2021. With still a few more days to go.
There's also a new Quinnipiac poll out tonight that shows the Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, with a 10-point lead over the former New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo. He's running as an Independent. Both of them are far ahead of the Republican candidate in this race, Curtis Sliwa, as you can see here.
And despite his lead, Mamdani's support is 3 percentage points lower than the same poll that came just a few weeks ago, three weeks ago, to be exact.
And all the way from Asia, President Trump weighed in on the race tonight, claiming, quote, "The more people learn about Mamdani, the less they like him."
Mamdani, however, did win a major endorsement today. A group that is representing 14,000 bodega owners say that they believe he's the best for the city, after initially criticizing his grocery plan.
Mamdani is still left waiting though tonight for an endorsement from one of the New York's -- one of New York's top Democratic leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Mamdani, are you going to vote for him?
SCHUMER: Look, the bottom line is very simple. I have a good relationship with him, and we're continuing to talk.
RAJU: Well, the vote is on Tuesday. What are you going to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight.
[21:25:00]
And Paul Begala. Manu, yes, correctly noted that the vote is on Tuesday. It has also been a 120 days since Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic primary. Do you think that Senator Schumer should have endorsed him, if he was going to do so, by now?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. It's a no-brainer. And Schumer should just say the truth, which is, he's not my flavor of Democrat, but he did win the Democratic primary.
It's kind of the rules of my business, if somebody wins your party primary, they get your endorsement. How many people had to endorse Trump, with a gun to their head, like a -- like a hostage video? And they did it, because they had to. It's kind of the rules of the game.
Nobody's going to hold it against Chuck Schumer. He ought not run he -- run away. He ought to just say, Yes, duh. He won my party's primary, he gets my vote.
COLLINS: And Scott. Tonight, some movement that we're seeing in this is former New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg himself, according to The New York Times, put $1.5 million into a Super PAC that is supporting Andrew Cuomo here. He did spend more than $8 million for Cuomo to become the Democratic nominee. Obviously, that failed. We haven't seen movement from Bloomberg since on this.
I wonder, Scott, what your view of this is, and whether Cuomo stands a chance, come Tuesday?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Well, first of all, I agree with the President. I think the more people learn about Mamdani, the more they see these old videos of him saying outrageous things about any number of issues. These things are surfacing. People are seeing them, maybe for the first time, as they decide who to vote for, and they're thinking, What are we about to do here in New York City?
Not to mention the fact that the kid has literally no experience running, doing anything in his life at all that would have prepared him to run New York City. It's the financial capital of the world, for goodness sakes. It's one of the most complicated political jobs in the world. And you're going to turn it over to somebody who has no track record, whatsoever?
So, I think the President's right.
I do think the polling shows he's likely to win, because, Cuomo, I mean, let's be honest, pretty flawed guy, too. And the Republicans don't have much of a party there. So this fragmented field, with a flawed opposition, in a city that doesn't really elect Republicans all that often? That's probably going to put Mamdani in office. But pray for the people of New York.
I -- Schumer is interesting, because he's already taken the government hostage, because he's afraid of getting a primary from his left. That's why we're in the middle of a shutdown right now. I don't know why he just wouldn't go ahead and take the full plunge and endorse Mamdani too, and try to appease these radicals in his party, even further.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, he might endorse him. We'll see. He said that conversations are ongoing.
But Paul, can I ask you? Because there was a crazy element to this story that is shaking out in the last few days, which is a story that was written by a huge British paper, yesterday, saying that Bill de Blasio, another former New York City Mayor, was claiming that Mamdani's proposals weren't achievable, weren't workable.
It has been taken down. He said that he never spoke to that reporter. And the newspaper said today that one of them -- one of the reporters was duped by someone who was pretending to be de Blasio, and gave fake quotes criticizing Mamdani.
Listen to what de Blasio said on CNN, earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: It literally was a surreal feeling, Erin. I'm looking at a headline, I'm looking at a quote, a newspaper I never spoke to, a journalist I never contacted--
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: By the way, a real, legitimate, credible newspaper.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
BURNETT: Yes.
DE BLASIO: And a journalist I literally never heard of.
And here's this article, claiming, I was saying all these bad things about Mamdani. It's literally everything they said was the opposite of what I believe. I believe Mamdani has an absolutely necessary vision for New York City, and I believe it's attainable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Paul, I just wonder what you make of all of this. BEGALA: Yes, it's, well, we're in Neverland. You know, there's -- we all have to be so careful. You know? It's no longer case, Well, they couldn't print it if it wasn't true, you know?
And here's, like, honestly, my warning. I tell this to my kids. I tell this to my students. Scott Jennings coming to my class at UVA soon, by the way, and it will be epic. I can't wait.
Scott, thank you for doing that.
But one of the things I tell my students is confirmation--
COLLINS: Make sure you record that one for us.
BEGALA: Yes, you should come.
Confirmation bias is the most powerful drug. So, I see something in paper, says, Trump shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. Like the Johnny Cash song? I'm really ready to believe that, even though it's nonsense, it's a lie. And I think that's probably what happened here. A lot of people want to hear bad things about Mr. Mamdani, and so they see it in the newspaper, and they think it's probably true.
COLLINS: Yes, I just want to know who's pretending to be Bill de Blasio.
But Scott, on a serious note, in Washington tonight, as I mentioned, there are two federal prosecutors on a story that we've been following closely today, they have been placed on leave, after they called the January 6th attack, a mob of rioters, in a sentencing memo, on Tuesday. That doesn't seem to be that noteworthy to me, that they just called it what it was.
Scott, I wonder, just from your view -- your view, do they believe -- do you believe that they should have been put on leave, just for calling that day what it was?
JENNINGS: If I may just go back to the previous topic. Of all the identities in the world to steal, Bill de Blasio's? That would be pretty far down on my list. But somebody did it. I mean, pretty wild.
[21:30:00]
On this story. Look, I did a little -- I did a little work on this tonight. I talked to some folks at the Department of Justice. And look, what they say is, is that no reason for these people to have been put on administrative leave or furloughed because the government shutdown has been given. So, it's just conjecture about this.
And they pointed out that if you look at the sentencing memos, the same sentence was sought after, the same prosecution taking it to the end, they believe it's a righteous prosecution. They're not going lenient on this person at all. It just appears that they don't believe the issue of January 6th is at all connected to what he's currently being prosecuted for. They also pointed to a case going on in Nebraska. There was a drug felon that was commuted by Joe Biden, and they're currently prosecuting him for his role in some kind of a drive-by shooting.
And the point that was made to me is, Look, we're going after people. We don't care if they've been pardoned or commuted by Trump or Biden. If they break the law, we're going after them.
And a lot of hay is being made about these personnel choices. But the real issue here is the Trump administration is pursuing to the fullest extent of the law, people who commit crimes.
COLLINS: But Scott, that sentencing memo did still have the same sentencing recommendation in the new one. But in the new version, it not only removed calling it, a mob of rioters. It removed also that this person had reposted a post by the President at the time with Obama's address.
And just, as you're someone who also called it literally an insurrection, you said they were rioters, you said they were domestic terrorists. So, why should someone be punished for simply saying what something was that day?
JENNINGS: Well, the point that was made to me is that there's some conjecture about why they've been placed on leave, that people may be making a leap here. I don't know why they're--
COLLINS: I haven't seen anyone deny that, Scott.
JENNINGS: Well, I don't know why they were placed on leave. I do know that these people have broad latitude in personnel.
Look, I believe it was a riot. That's my personal opinion. It looked like a riot, and seemed like a riot to me.
The point that was made, though, is that that is totally unconnected to the current prosecution. And so, if you want to make that connection, you know, why is that in there? I mean, it really has nothing -- one has nothing to do with the other.
Why were they placed on leave? I don't think I have enough information to engage in conjecture about why that is.
I will say, I do think U.S. attorneys have broad latitude in how they run their office. Not the first line prosecutor to be put on leave or moved on to another office, and it won't be the last. And I'm pretty forgiving of the executive branch for running it from a personnel perspective, however they see fit.
COLLINS: Paul, what do you think?
BEGALA: I do. I do. I have enough information to conjecture. I do. Call on me, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Go ahead, caller. BEGALA: These people being punished for their -- for their views. This is Trump's all-out war on free speech. As a guy, like Scott, who makes his living off of free speech? I find that appalling. So, a comedian tells a joke he doesn't like? He tries to get him canceled. A university has protests he doesn't like? He extorts their funds. He intimidates law firms who bend the knee because they represent people they don't like.
That was a riot. They had guns and pipe bombs and weapons, and they wounded a 140 cops, and four other cops died. It was a terrible riot. And Donald Trump is spreading a lie that it wasn't, and he's now trying to intimidate all of us who speak the truth. Not going to work.
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad all three of us can agree it was a riot.
Scott Jennings. Paul Begala. Thank you both for being here tonight.
And good luck with Scott's appearance in front of your class.
JENNINGS: He's going to need it.
COLLINS: Yes, he will.
BEGALA: Yes.
COLLINS: That's why I wished him good luck.
Great to have both of you here tonight.
Meanwhile, we are watching President Trump's trip overseas. A lot of movement is happening, right now, because he just arrived at the place where he is going to sit down with Chinese President, Xi Jinping, for the first time since 2019, they're coming face-to-face.
Just moments ago, President Trump posted that the United States is going to start immediately testing nuclear weapons. What does that mean? I'll ask someone who used to give him his daily intelligence briefing.
[21:35:00]
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COLLINS: Breaking news tonight. As you can see here, Marine One is in South Korea. We are moments away from what is expected to be a highly consequential meeting, regardless of what happens, between President Trump and the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, underway right now -- underway shortly, I should note. And it is set to be their first face- to-face since Trump launched his massive trade war, and of course, that is an economic front that we're going to be watching closely.
But also, look at this, what the President just posted, this evening, a couple of moments ago, actually, on Truth Social, where he is talking up U.S. nuclear weapons, in a new social media post. He said that because of other countries nuclear testing, that he has, quote, "Instructed the Department of War to start testing our Nuclear Weapons on an equal basis."
My source tonight is the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.
And Beth, I'm so glad that you're here.
Because I want to just read this entire post from the President, from a few moments ago, because I think there's a few things in it that aren't true, and I'm very curious for your thoughts on this.
Because, he said at 09:04 p.m., as he's on the way, in South Korea, to go meet with Xi Jinping, that, The United States has more Nuclear Weapons than any other country. He says, This was accomplished, including a complete update and renovation of existing weapons, during my First Term in office. Because of the tremendous destructive power, I HATED to do it, but had no choice. Russia is second, and China is a distant third, but will be even within 5 years. Because of other countries testing programs, I have instructed the Department of War to start testing our Nuclear Weapons on an equal basis. And he says, That process will begin immediately.
First off, Beth, is what the President says in this post true? And secondly, what do you make of this announcement?
[21:40:00]
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, who has more warheads, nuclear weapons? Russia or the United States? Technically, Russia has a little bit more, but it also depends on how you count and what is an active warhead.
And it gets kind of complicated, and I think that basically, the United States and Russia are at parity. If you -- if you can destroy the Earth, many, many times over, it really -- it really, you know, we're talking about angels dancing on a head of a pin. And China being a distant third is true.
But my big picture here on the nuclear testing is this is something that real, real hawks, like Ambassador Bolton, really pushed for in the first administration, and the President didn't do that.
And I personally believe that it is a bad idea to go forward with U.S. nuclear testing, and here's why. Sure, that there are constraints on us. And there are people you can argue, you can have discussions about this. There're constraints by us not testing.
But when the United States tests, you basically give carte blanche to everyone else. And the reason that we don't test is because we've tested more than pretty much everyone else. We did thousands, over a 1,000, at least, tests during the Cold War. And we have computer simulations. And real experts say, like, We don't really need to do that.
Do you know how many tests China has done? 50. We've done thousands. 50. Or at least over a 1,000. And 50. So, when you say that we're going to test, you're now allowing China to test. And so, when the President correctly says they're a distant third? What would allow them to catch up faster? Partly, testing, because they haven't done as much.
And so, my view on this is, yes, we give up a little bit in terms of constraining ourselves when we have a Test Ban Treaty and we uphold it. But when we break that, other countries who are our adversaries benefit more than we do.
COLLINS: Well, how does someone like a Xi Jinping, who is on his way for his first face-to-face with Trump, in six years, how does he read a message like that, moments before they sit down together?
SANNER: I know. It's a little bit of a Crazy Ivan, taking a Tom Clancy phrase. I don't really know what that came from or why it would be now. I think it might be that someone told him that China was testing? Or, I don't know exactly, that that's not really the case. So, I'm not really sure what this point is. Is that other people are doing it, so we should be doing? I'm not really getting that. I might be missing something, though, OK.
COLLINS: Well what about--
SANNER: Because it's a new thing and I haven't--
COLLINS: The other thing though that I thought about was--
SANNER: Yes.
COLLINS: --the North Korea aspect of all of this that has kind of been part of this meeting.
I was listening to the President, speaking with reporters, last night, on Air Force One, and he was saying, you know, they had been making some overtures about having the two of them sit down together.
We have not yet seen North Korea respond to that, I don't think. But they were firing missiles off of their west coast, the other day.
SANNER: Well--
COLLINS: Do you think that has anything to do with this calculation? Or how is that something that they go into this meeting, with that in the background of this?
SANNER: Yes. That's interesting, Kaitlan. Very smart of you.
Look, we've been waiting for North Korea to do a nuclear test, for about two years now. And they haven't done one that would be necessary, we think, for them to miniaturize their warheads enough that they could really be sure that an ICBM, which they have, that could reach anywhere in the United States, that it would have a warhead that would explode as expected. And so, we've been waiting for them to do that. So, this could be about North Korea.
Now, those missile tests, are short-range ballistic missiles, and maybe that it could be a North Korea angle. As far as I know, there isn't going to be a meeting with Kim. The President has floated that, and maybe he's frustrated that they haven't responded. I don't know. We'll probably find out a little bit more about what this is all about, in the next day or so.
But it's interesting, and I don't know -- I mean, I think that what President Xi would think about this is, He's very unpredictable, and I'm having trouble having a stable relationship with President Trump. And I think that that is not a virtue, at this point, in our negotiations with them.
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: We will see what this looks like. Obviously, a very closely watched and closely choreographed meeting that is about to happen, between these two leaders. And we'll see, obviously. President Trump's usually pretty forthright after meetings like this, about how they went, and we'll see what he has to say.
Beth Sanner, thank you, as always, for joining us, especially on the breaking news, the breaking post tonight.
SANNER: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. I mentioned earlier, there's Republican dissent on Capitol Hill, over House Speaker Mike Johnson's shutdown strategy, including keeping the House out of Washington.
A Republican congressman is on a growing list of members who are asking whether or not they should be back at their desks in the Capitol. We'll talk to him, next.
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COLLINS: Tonight, the House has now entered its 40th consecutive day out of session. It has not conducted any legislative business, since September 19th.
House Speaker Mike Johnson still won't say when the House is going to gavel back into session. He says, that's up to Democrats.
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JOHNSON: Wouldn't that be a futile exercise when we have a CR that's been sitting over there since September 19th? If I brought the House back, and we passed another CR, it would meet the exact same fate from Chuck Schumer. He would mock it, they would spike it, and they would try to blame it on us. So what in the point -- what would be the point of that?
REPORTER: Are you concerned about the timing?
JOHNSON: We're all concerned about the timing. The Democrats are eating up the clock. We have very important work to do here. And that's why we're pleading with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Johnson might be pleading with the other side.
But we do have one source who says that at least three Republican lawmakers confronted him, on a private call, this week, over their frustrations with the House's extended hiatus. Two of them are Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia and Kevin Kiley of California, and they're publicly criticizing the Speaker's shutdown strategy, at least when it comes to whether or not the House is in session.
And Congressman Kiley is my Republican source tonight.
And thank you sir for being here.
Do you believe, from what you've heard -- because Speaker Johnson gets asked about this, pretty much every time he's in front of cameras. Has anything he said about why the House is not in session, do you believe any of that's justified, from your view?
REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): I think it's completely unjustified to have the House out of session. I think this is going to go down as one of the more bizarre episodes in the history of the House of Representatives, where House leadership just chose to cancel five consecutive weeks of session.
I mean, that calendar that you put up is accurate. But the one thing it doesn't indicate is that these last five weeks were actually scheduled to be session days. And so, we had an entire legislative agenda, with oversight hearings, with legislation to advance and so forth, that it had been pre-planned.
I mean, I was just, earlier today, talking with Representative Bonamici, who is the Vice Chair of the Education Subcommittee that I chair, and we were lamenting that our hearing that we had set up, on a very bipartisan issue, of career technical education, had to be canceled, because the House hasn't been in session.
So, the fact that the government is shut down, which is a terrible thing, and we need to get the government back open, is not, in and of itself, any reason to have the House shut down. If anything, it's all the more urgent that the House is here, so we can do whatever we can to get the government back open.
COLLINS: So, given that, that hearings like that aren't able to happen because of this. Speaker Johnson said, this week, that House Republicans, in his view, are, quote, Doing some of the most meaningful work of their careers out in their districts, with the House out of session. Is that how you would characterize it?
KILEY: Well, district work weeks are really important. I mean, that is a big part of our job, is being present in our districts, meeting with constituents, figuring out what issues matter to them. But that's why we have scheduled district work weeks, like the entire month of August, for example, where we were scheduled not to be in D.C. The entire month of October, we were scheduled to be here and hadn't (ph) a legislative agenda planned around that. So when the Speaker says that it's the Chuck Schumer who's eating up our legislative time? That's actually not true.
Now, I don't agree with what Chuck Schumer is doing, in refusing to pass the CR, and it's having terrible ramifications for the American people, and I wish they just passed that, and opened the government back up. But that is not the reason the House of Representatives is not in session. That's a decision of the House's own leadership.
COLLINS: So, we know that you disagree with this strategy. So does Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's made clear. We've heard Dan Crenshaw is a third congressman, Republican, who's also issued -- or voiced concerns about this.
House Speaker Mike Johnson might look at that and say, OK, well, that's three people who don't like the plan, but everyone else in the House GOP conference does.
But do you believe there are more House Republicans who agree with you on this?
KILEY: Oh, of course there are. I mean, just because three people say something on the call, it doesn't mean that every other person believes the opposite of that thing. I mean.
And by the way, there are more and more Republicans who are in town now. I've been here each of the last three weeks. There weren't that many folks the first week. But now there are quite a few. I'm seeing them wherever where I go. And everyone is ready -- that I talked to, is ready to actually get the business of the people going again, when it's been on hold now, unnecessarily, without justification, for five weeks running.
COLLINS: If you had to ballpark it, how many other Republicans would you say agree with you here?
KILEY: I would bet most do. I mean, everyone I've talked to who's in town is very frustrated. Like, we all ran for Congress, to be here, representing our districts, fighting for our constituents, advancing legislation, doing oversight.
And so, every single committee and the countless subcommittees we have in Congress, all of that business has been either canceled or postponed for five consecutive weeks now.
And it's happening at a time when you know, there's so much we need to do in terms of getting the government back open, and preparing to actually pass the full appropriations bills that are about to come due in a few weeks, even if the seven-week CR that we passed in the House were to be passed in the Senate and signed into law.
COLLINS: Yes. And one member who obviously ran for office was Adelita Grijalva.
KILEY: Yes.
COLLINS: She is one of the newest members. She is still Congresswoman- elect, because she hasn't been sworn in yet.
And Speaker Johnson has defended that, saying, when the House is back, the government's reopened, they'll swear her in then.
Do you think that that is OK?
KILEY: No, I think this is pretty basic stuff, like she won her election, she deserves to be sworn in. That district deserves a representative.
And we were supposed to be in session, by the way, right after she was elected, and we were supposed to be in session, the next week and the next week after that. So, the fact that we haven't had session isn't anything that she's responsible for.
[21:55:00]
And by the way, even if we were out of session, as we have been, she could still be sworn in, during what's called a pro forma session, where basically we just gavel in, say the prayer, say the Pledge, and gavel out, every four days, as required by the Constitution. Members have been sworn in, in pro forma sessions like that before. So, I absolutely think she should be sworn in. I don't understand why this is even an issue.
COLLINS: And that is a Republican saying that, which I think is notable.
Congressman Kevin Kiley, thank you for joining us here tonight.
KILEY: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: And we do have some breaking news tonight. As I said, President Trump is sitting down with Chinese President, Xi Jinping, the first time since 2019. We are getting our first images of that crucial meeting. What it could mean for the U.S. economy and so much more. We'll take it to you -- we'll show you that, right after this.
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COLLINS: Any moment now, a meeting that could have huge consequences for the United States, for China, and for the entire world, frankly, as President Trump is going to sit down with the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping. Any moment now, we should see a handshake between the two leaders, the first actually between them since 2019.
We are watching live images out of an air base, in South Korea, where they are going to have this meeting to talk about trade, Fentanyl, TikTok, chips, and so much more, when it comes to regional security, and a lot that is on the agenda, and riding on a huge meeting that the President has been talking about at length. We'll keep an eye on this closely.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
